A Distro for Indian Schools

Hi Guys!

I am on a project to build the perfect distro for common Indian schools with low end computers as an educational tool. I need the distro to fulfill the following needs:

1. Be able to teach anyone about the internals of computing

2. Have an easy to learn commandline mode

3. Be easy to manage by a single administrator who handles 20 systems

4. Run on light systems - meaning 2GHz P4 or 2.4GHz celerons or even lower, with 256MB of DDR1 333MHz RAM and monitors similar to Samsung Samatron 15".

5. Comfortably intorduce kids to computing at an early age and get them hooked on to linux

6. Be able to last on the same configuration for a few years

7. Run Turbo C++ 3.0 on Wine

8. Run OpenOffice.org, while not running anything else

I am doing this for the Jawaharlal Nehru Science Exibition 2008 under the category "Educational Technology". Last year I made it to the nationals, and this year I hope to do something similar or better, since its my last year at school and I want to return something to the set of institutions which made me what I am.

I have time to decide on the config till today 6.30AM and download and set it up and create a Live DVD or HDD Image.

I have a 5400RPM 40GB IDE HDD, of which I intend to use not more than 20GB.

I have been thinking of Arch Linux and Zenwalk. What do you say guys ?

I am thinking of making two versions, one with arch and IceDE, my own basic idea of a DE based on IceWM which has basic easy to use apps like Sea Monkey, EmelFM, DFM, irssi, nano, xine, etc.

The second will be a full fledged Xfce environment with Educational Apps like Celestina, Stellarium, Periodic Tabe Of Elements, other misc educational tools, OpenOffice.org, etc.

So I am considering arch for the former and zen for the later. I plan to showcase only the former for the first round on the comming saturday (I am sure that, with the current competition level, and my influence, this is more than enough to pass and make it to regionals). :lol:

Please suggest me good configurations for both. And I also need some good free encyclopedias for offline browsing I can use. I remember NucleusKore offering something for sale which was an abriged wikipedia. Can I get something like that ?

PS: would it be a good idea to include an Impress based presentation as a part of this project ?

Best of luck gautham and is this the distro you promised?

rahimveron said:
Best of luck gautham and is this the distro you promised?

yes
originally intended to be a multimedia OS, this was in the plans for a loooong loooong time.

But for several obvious reasons, I can't release it till the competition is over.

M

MetalheadGautham said:
Hi Guys!

I am on a project to build the perfect distro for common Indian schools with low end computers as an educational tool.

Start by looking at this thread - *mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20080721/064207.html

MetalheadGautham said:
1. Be able to teach anyone about the internals of computing

Define your target audience.

MetalheadGautham said:

2. Have an easy to learn commandline mode

Click to expand...

Well this is always a very subjective term.

MetalheadGautham said:

3. Be easy to manage by a single administrator who handles 20 systems

Click to expand...

Then go with a debian based or red hat based system, suse and mandriva will be good choices too but my experiene with them is limited so cannot say how will it adapt to such needs. Probably people on Pune Linux Users Group can answer the Mandriva part cos there is quite some number of Mandriva users there.

MetalheadGautham said:

4. Run on light systems - meaning 2GHz P4 or 2.4GHz celerons or even lower, with 256MB of DDR1 333MHz RAM and monitors similar to Samsung Samatron 15".

Click to expand...

This isn't very much distro specific but more dependant on the window manager/desktop environment.

MetalheadGautham said:

6. Be able to last on the same configuration for a few years

Click to expand...

Hmm?

MetalheadGautham said:

7. Run Turbo C++ 3.0 on Wine

Click to expand...

TC++ 3.0 isn't a win32 application, it's a DOS based application. Even on Vista people use DOSbox for the same.

MetalheadGautham said:

8. Run OpenOffice.org, while not running anything else

Click to expand...

Not running anything else?

MetalheadGautham said:

I have been thinking of Arch Linux and Zenwalk. What do you say guys ?

Click to expand...

Will you be able to satisfy point 3 here?

MetalheadGautham said:

I am thinking of making two versions, one with arch and IceDE, my own basic idea of a DE based on IceWM which has basic easy to use apps like Sea Monkey, EmelFM, DFM, irssi, nano, xine, etc.

Click to expand...

Don't forget geany

MetalheadGautham said:

So I am considering arch for the former and zen for the later.

Click to expand...

Are you sure you will be able to handle mass deployment of Zenwalk? I didnt' feel it too comfortable for such a purpose.

MetalheadGautham said:

And I also need some good free encyclopedias for offline browsing I can use. I remember NucleusKore offering something for sale which was an abriged wikipedia. Can I get something like that ?

Click to expand...

Get a wikipedia dump and run a local mediawiki.

MetalheadGautham said:

PS: would it be a good idea to include an Impress based presentation as a part of this project ?

Click to expand...

Why not?

H

already it@school ,a debian based distro is used in kerala schools

mehulved said:
Start by looking at this thread - *mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20080721/064207.html

Define your target audience.

Students from age 11 to 18, the standard lot you find here in India.

Then go with a debian based or red hat based system, suse and mandriva will be good choices too but my experiene with them is limited so cannot say how will it adapt to such needs. Probably people on Pune Linux Users Group can answer the Mandriva part cos there is quite some number of Mandriva users there.

Why those ? I was thinking of Arch or Debian, but at the moment Debian seems ruled out since debian Lenny's Successor is not yet out. So is Arch alright ? I think it must be quite easy to manage since editing of text files is all that is involved, and these files can be copied and duplicated on multiple systems via scripts.

Don't forget geany

Whats it ?

Are you sure you will be able to handle mass deployment of Zenwalk? I didnt' feel it too comfortable for such a purpose.

Yup. Zenwalk has a horrible Live Mode, and I just confirmed that in the past hour. So unfortunately that too gets ruled out. Vector is a big question mark, but I think it might be an option. Any other choice ? I don't want to put in something with loads of updates like Sidux since deployment might take place in areas where internet is a bit expensive.

Get a wikipedia dump and run a local mediawiki.

No. This is different. Apparently its some kind of abridged wikipedia collection with only select articles exclusively chosen for school kids. Its 1.3GB in size from what I remember of the torrent. I think it would make a perfect alternative for these Pirated MS Encarta copies I see in most schools. Only NucleusKore can shed some light here I guess.

TC++ 3.0 isn't a win32 application, it's a DOS based application. Even on Vista people use DOSbox for the same.

woops. forgot. then I guess I need to use a common dos emulator for linux.

This isn't very much distro specific but more dependant on the window manager/desktop environment.

you mean to say that even if I install Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04.1 on my desktop, but choose to use IceWM instead of standard Gnome/KDE/Xfce, I can expect speed boosts to arch like levels ?

Well this is always a very subjective term.

I have seen people taking about a week to get used to DOS the first time they are introduced to it.

Why not?

takes time...

Hmm?

The system needs to last, without the need of upgrades, for a few years. Meaning that it must not get obsoleted for the distro in too short a span of time. Unfortunately, I need to make "easy to use distro", read HEAVY, a "light distro", read HARD. I am hoping it won't be much difficult. I have done wierder things.

Will you be able to satisfy point 3 here?

I hope so. Linux administrators have not been known to be the dumbest of the lot.

Not running anything else?

Since OOo is a heavy app, I said running it in unitasking mode. Perhaps with a website or two open in browser but not anything more.

humanbeing said:
already it@school ,a debian based distro is used in kerala schools

I know it exists. I am looking for something better, that too one which is based on a lighter platform. Thats why I was considering Zenwalk and Arch.

H

for borland TC++ like looks ,try a CLI client called "motor" available for Linux

humanbeing said:
for borland TC++ like looks ,try a CLI client called "motor" available for Linux

Its not looks that are important. the problem here is that the syllabus has Borland TC++ based programming, which does not follow ISO standards like G++. Thats an entirely different topic, so I am leaving it.

F

A couple of recommendations. These are kids and parents that usually come for Exhibitions. You don't want to restrict children to just studies. You should show them that they could have fun on a Linux Based Machine. Probably a Win game on Wine or a native game on Linux . Remember don't make it a Arcade demo. Cause you will need a crowbar to pry the keyboard away from them .

All the stuff you mentioned is cool . Also try to include Google Earth Maybe , KStar and other educational software. You can refer to the Edubuntu distro for further choices. Also If you want to restrict he title to Indian Schools then add something to culturally link it to India because I don't see why it should be a distro for Indian Schools. Maybe include Language Packs and other Cultural stuff I guess.

Just my two cents.

M

MetalheadGautham said:
Students from age 11 to 18, the standard lot you find here in India.

Then don't rush to show CLI and features, first make them aware of the basic stuff that they normally use.

MetalheadGautham said:
Why those ? I was thinking of Arch or Debian, but at the moment Debian seems ruled out since debian Lenny's Successor is not yet out. So is Arch alright ? I think it must be quite easy to manage since editing of text files is all that is involved, and these files can be copied and duplicated on multiple systems via scripts.

Well arch, gentoo, crux, etc require too much configuration, so don't opt for them unless you're familiar with some advanced stuff.

MetalheadGautham said:
Whats it ?

A nice text editor + IDE. Just give it a dekko, you'll surely like it.

MetalheadGautham said:
Yup. Zenwalk has a horrible Live Mode, and I just confirmed that in the past hour. So unfortunately that too gets ruled out. Vector is a big question mark, but I think it might be an option. Any other choice ? I don't want to put in something with loads of updates like Sidux since deployment might take place in areas where internet is a bit expensive.

Give CentOS a spin, with some usage WM

MetalheadGautham said:
No. This is different. Apparently its some kind of abridged wikipedia collection with only select articles exclusively chosen for school kids. Its 1.3GB in size from what I remember of the torrent. I think it would make a perfect alternative for these Pirated MS Encarta copies I see in most schools. Only NucleusKore can shed some light here I guess.

Yes, but if you have one powerful machine, you can have a nice local wikipeida collection.

MetalheadGautham said:
woops. forgot. then I guess I need to use a common dos emulator for linux.

dosbox works on linux, it is open source.

MetalheadGautham said:
you mean to say that even if I install Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04.1 on my desktop, but choose to use IceWM instead of standard Gnome/KDE/Xfce, I can expect speed boosts to arch like levels ?

More of less. The difference will be hardly noticable. I run ubuntu in VM, with fluxbox as WM, it takes less than 100MB of RAM. Avoid heavy apps like firefox and openoffice. You have abiword, gnucash and the likes. You'll need to search a bit for presentation tool and a browser.

MetalheadGautham said:
I have seen people taking about a week to get used to DOS the first time they are introduced to it.

Like I said, a very subjective thing. Some make take fancy to it instantly, some may never come around.

The system needs to last, without the need of upgrades, for a few years. Meaning that it must not get obsoleted for the distro in too short a span of time. Unfortunately, I need to make "easy to use distro", read HEAVY, a "light distro", read HARD. I am hoping it won't be much difficult. I have done wierder things.

Mostly it's those DE's that bloat up, with WM's you should be pretty good to go.

MetalheadGautham said:
I hope so. Linux administrators have not been known to be the dumbest of the lot.
[/quoute]
Well, I have heard stories on the contrary. It's a person specific thing.

MetalheadGautham said:

Since OOo is a heavy app, I said running it in unitasking mode. Perhaps with a website or two open in browser but not anything more.

Click to expand...

look for alternatives.

FilledVoid said:
A couple of recommendations. These are kids and parents that usually come for Exhibitions. You don't want to restrict children to just studies. You should show them that they could have fun on a Linux Based Machine. Probably a Win game on Wine or a native game on Linux . Remember don't make it a Arcade demo. Cause you will need a crowbar to pry the keyboard away from them .

All the stuff you mentioned is cool . Also try to include Google Earth Maybe , KStar and other educational software. You can refer to the Edubuntu distro for further choices. Also If you want to restrict he title to Indian Schools then add something to culturally link it to India because I don't see why it should be a distro for Indian Schools. Maybe include Language Packs and other Cultural stuff I guess.

Just my two cents.

Don't worry. I am going to include Compiz Fusion too. But the problem is that my current test machine is a Pentium D 3.06 GHz with 224MB RAM (remaining ram from 256 total to DirectX 9.0c capable onboard GPU, don't know name).

I guess I forgot google earth. instead of kstar, which is KDE based and hence heavy, I am including stelarium and clestina. The reason I added Indian schools is because I have visited several schools over the years of my schooling and I can say that many lack proper systems. So the main difference is that Indian Schools need a LIGHT OS, not something heavy. Infact, the systems I have seen are weaker than even MY OWN rig.

F

Give CentOS a spin, with some usage WM

Im trying out Cent OS 5.2 in VM and I must say Im kind of impressed. Not to mention their torrents are like lightning fast.

mehulved said:
Then don't rush to show CLI and features, first make them aware of the basic stuff that they normally use.

Well arch, gentoo, crux, etc require too much configuration, so don't opt for them unless you're familiar with some advanced stuff.

A nice text editor + IDE. Just give it a dekko, you'll surely like it.

Give CentOS a spin, with some usage WM

Yes, but if you have one powerful machine, you can have a nice local wikipeida collection.

dosbox works on linux, it is open source.

More of less. The difference will be hardly noticable. I run ubuntu in VM, with fluxbox as WM, it takes less than 100MB of RAM. Avoid heavy apps like firefox and openoffice. You have abiword, gnucash and the likes. You'll need to search a bit for presentation tool and a browser.

Like I said, a very subjective thing. Some make take fancy to it instantly, some may never come around.

Mostly it's those DE's that bloat up, with WM's you should be pretty good to go.

MetalheadGautham said:

I hope so. Linux administrators have not been known to be the dumbest of the lot.
[/quoute]
Well, I have heard stories on the contrary. It's a person specific thing.

look for alternatives.

Click to expand...

Its going to be GUI based, but CLI apps are there to teach students stuff about how to use CLI mode. Its more educational than anything else.

I am familiar with configuring arch, so I guess I should have no issues with it.

CentOS ? I doubt it can run in the system I am planning. But I will try anyhow.

Local wikipedia OK, but articles ? I need to censor some and edit others to make it sutiable for Indian schools. I don't want to see complaints of kids searching about this that and xxx.

I know that about CLI, but still... the system does basic tasks well without cli and cli is only needed for advanced use which needs to be TAUGHT in the first place.

So shall I try Xfce on Arch ? I just installed it...

One word: PUDLinux

Customize it the way you want. Its lightening fast. A very much tweaked Ubuntu.

After sometime you can intro them to Arch/Gentoo etc. if you feel so.

infra_red_dude said:
One word: PUDLinux Customize it the way you want. Its lightening fast. A very much tweaked Ubuntu.

After sometime you can intro them to Arch/Gentoo etc. if you feel so.

Thanks for the suggestion. Ubuntu would be great since there are awssome Indian Repositories for it and it has a wide spread community support. A fast ubuntu will only make things a hell lot awssomer.

But the original objective is this:

I need to create distro, or atleast, for now, install it in a 40GB 5400RPM IDE HDD and ensure that it runs smoothly, and customise it to give it a professionalised schoolish flavour. I just eliminated Xfce from the list of propable DEs because its simply not easy enough to use without help (neither is icewm, but I am there na ? but I am an xfce n00b) .

Its supposed to showcase the role linux can play in Indian schools to accomplish the following tasks:

1. Prevent wastage of money on frequent upgrades at the same time keep students up to date with cutting edge technology

2. Save schools from the danger of being sued by MS for using pirated ms office, pirated windows and pirated encarta. Also save genuine paid software using schools from having to invest a lot of money in software upgrades every three years or so.

3. Prove that an OS which can be seen inside out if so desired can help students learn much more easily than otherwise, as in the case of windows

4. demonstrate the immunity linux has to viruses and the level of control administrators can have over the activities being performed by students

5. Show a demo of thin clienting with linux and the ease with which desktop linux users like users of this distro can easily adjust to thin clienting environments and the advantages of having one

6. Finally, the OS needs to be perfect for every single task the school needs to accomplish - run a server, office work, internet, virtual lessons, demonstrations, and at the same time be fool proof.

Its for this reason that I chose to install stuff in a HDD, customise everything, and use it as a demonstration tool from where my entire presentation is sourced. Besides, I am adding some masala into this presentation which would impress some skeptic people too.

M

MetalheadGautham said:
I am familiar with configuring arch, so I guess I should have no issues with it.

Are you familiar with network boot, configuration management and stuff? Cos they will be required to do a mass deployment, else you'll be spending a lot of time installing, configuring and keeping everything in sync.

MetalheadGautham said:
CentOS ? I doubt it can run in the system I am planning. But I will try anyhow.

Give it a whirl then reply. It's not like fedora

MetalheadGautham said:
Local wikipedia OK, but articles ? I need to censor some and edit others to make it sutiable for Indian schools. I don't want to see complaints of kids searching about this that and xxx.

Proxy it thorough squid or something, so that all the keywords are blocked.

MetalheadGautham said:
So shall I try Xfce on Arch ? I just installed it...

Try it, but remember it's a altogether different game when you do a mass deployment as opposed to installing on 1-2 PC's at home. This is where the debians and red hats help. To start with most documents are geared towards them and they have huge knowledgeable community.

there is BOSS LINUX for that same purpose ..
watch that

What exactly are the issues associated with RPM in CentOS ? Give me a good talk about it. Then perhaps I can select it.

Does it get latest apps ? How light is it compared to Arch ? I am considering actually INSTALLING it on my system since its so mainstream and since I need something even more stable than Arch for both schools and for the future use of my home rig.

And one more thing: Temporarily for a presentation on saturday, on a Pentium D 3.06GHz machine with 256mb RAM, what OS shall I choose ? I am thinking of making a copy of my own HDD for immidiate use, since it will obviously work on that rig.

MetalheadGautham said:
I need to create distro, or atleast, for now, install it in a 40GB 5400RPM IDE HDD and ensure that it runs smoothly, and customise it to give it a professionalised schoolish flavour.

It comes with LXDE and you can ditch OpenWM for metacity. Its still way faster than Xfce, yet nice

MetalheadGautham said:
I just eliminated Xfce from the list of propable DEs because its simply not easy enough to use without help

WTF????

Dude.. are you paid to post funny answers here????

Arch is simple.. Xfce is not.. and blah blah..

infra_red_dude said:
It comes with LXDE and you can ditch OpenWM for metacity. Its still way faster than Xfce, yet nice

WTF???? Dude.. are you paid to post funny answers here????

Arch is simple.. Xfce is not.. and blah blah..

LXDE ? Which distro are you talking about ? PUDLinux ?

And I don't mean to be funny. Its just that I keep getting pwned by Xfce whenever I use it.

I tried it on several distros, each time I get the same result.

M

Arch is fine for demo but for final implementation, I have my reservations.
And don't forget to demo localisation, install all the required indic fonts, get hold of local language inscript keyboard map so you can demo typing in local language, you can use xkb or scim for that. You can localise the whole desktop if you like.
Focus on educational tools and games, you can search kde-edu for that, also edubuntu.

MetalheadGautham said:
LXDE ? Which distro are you talking about ? PUDLinux ?

Yep.. *pud-linux.sourceforge.net/index.en.html#

PUD Linux = Latest Ubuntu - Bloat crap + LXDE + SquashFS + LZM compression + Insane tweaks to make it snappy.

The donwload size is 256MB.

Few screenshots : *pud-linux.sourceforge.net/screenshot/pud-lxde-2.jpg

*pud-linux.sourceforge.net/screenshot/pud-hardy-s.jpg

(zomg.. its only now I realize that PUD people used Mac4Lin for this screenshot

)

You also haf a tool to build your own distro.

F

Arch is fine for demo but for final implementation, I have my reservations.

I would be against it just because of one thing. If something goes wrong you will have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to fix it. Second of all you aren't there only to convince the students but the Staff and management also. Ease of Use , Configuration and Maintenance are huge pluses.

Everything depends on how far you want to go. You could install Virtualbox and even show that you can run Windows on it if needed , Wine and other must use MS Apps. Also don't forget to package a cool dvd like the Matrix or some songs. you basically want to show that you could use Linux boxes for regular use if you wanted to.

And I don't mean to be funny. Its just that I keep getting pwned by Xfce whenever I use it.

Maybe it would help if you pointed to your actual problem. I don't see any problem with XFCE as is.

U don't need wine for Borland TC++ v3 as it runs fine on Dosbox and I've tested it myself on PCBSD

btw I like the concept goodluck!

Thanks guys. Today I am installing arch in a HDD and customising it. Tomorrow I will transfer it to my presentation system and see how phase one goes. Wish me luck.

edit: I FOUND IT

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=903435#post903435

There's a zenwalk fork called ZenEdu Live.
*www.zenwalk.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=50

Its meant for pretty much what you have in mind.
Try it out , maybe you can customize it/ fork it to meet your demands.

K

Geany is a gr8 IDE.

BTW, I'm 17 and don't think that age group (11-18 ) are so dumb.

ray|raven said:
There's a zenwalk fork called ZenEdu Live.
*www.zenwalk.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=50

Its meant for pretty much what you have in mind.
Try it out , maybe you can customize it/ fork it to meet your demands.

Thanks but no thanks. For my current project, in stage #1, ubuntu was the distro I used since Arch failed to install in an extra partition at school. There was an error installing grub, but till then, everything was absolutely giving me no trouble. If I find a solution for it, I will go with arch, else I am sticking with a customised ubuntu.

So I need help for the following:

1. Suggest me a good appearence set, with theme, wallpaper, icons, gdm theme, splash screen, boot splash, etc from gnome-look.org

k6153r said:
Geany is a gr8 IDE.

BTW, I'm 17 and don't think that age group (11-18 ) are so dumb.

Geany ? Please give me some more details. And I am introducing the ease with which I can type a program in nano and save it then use g++ to compile it. But I doubt it will do wonders since nano lacks c++ syntax hilighting. Is this Geany a commandline app ?

^Geany is a Gtk+ IDE.Its very lightweight.

And if you decide to go with a customized ubuntu , try freezy linux.
They have a custom ubuntu with nice look-n-feel and a lot of apps we generally use.

ray|raven said:
^Geany is a Gtk+ IDE.Its very lightweight.

And if you decide to go with a customized ubuntu , try freezy linux.
They have a custom ubuntu with nice look-n-feel and a lot of apps we generally use.

and do you know of any way by which I can make Xfce look like Gnome ? People seem to really like gnome's ease of use. I think Xfce menu is a bit cluttered with everything crammed into one single menu. I want to make it look organised like Gnome Menu. Any advice ?

^Its damn easy to edit Xfce menu.
Goto Settings>Menu Editor and edit it as per your needs.

Each Xfce Menu applet can point to a different menu , Combine that with the Places applet and you can make a gnome-style menu , with the
Applications-Places-System.

ray|raven said:
^Its damn easy to edit Xfce menu.
Goto Settings>Menu Editor and edit it as per your needs.

Each Xfce Menu applet can point to a different menu , Combine that with the Places applet and you can make a gnome-style menu , with the
Applications-Places-System.

Thanks. I am going to try this and see how good xfce becomes.

UPDATE:, phase one rehersal and preparation went on very well.

We installed ubuntu first onto a 40 GB HDD, for which I had to shout instructions over the IRC to my friend, who had the HDD, and I got lots of help from QwertyM in automating the running of a few commands without interruptions via a shell script.

But at school, the install screwed up; we had forgotton to change the xorg resolution. Lots more screwings and fixations and workarounds later, including the much feared IDE jumper to small syndrome, when the distro finally started running, it was damn too slow. I couldn't pin-point the source of the problem though I looked for it everywhere, and double checked every setting. Finally I decided to transfer the contents of /var/cache/apt in the 40GB HDD to the same folder of the already existing ubuntu install. That install was much faster, even with full desktop effects enabled. Finally, after lots of waiting, hanging and installing, the system was patched up and given a good theming by us. Now hopefully nothing will go wrong tomorrow and Gnome on a brand new dist-upgraded ubuntu won't crash on a system with 256MB RAM and Pentium D 3.06GHz with HT technology. (I know the ram is too little, but our management sucks. We can do nothing about it.)

Wish me luck.

Disable dri , you wont be running compiz or games right?
It'll free RAM for use by apps.

Change

Load "dri"

to

Disable "dri"

in xorg.conf

Funny problem: Round #1 of the competition is suddenly postponed for the next week, so its not on today. Guess I need to change the password to something other than just "password", so that nobody gains access to that system.

I installed edubuntu and Mandriva in my Mom's and my school

all ran perfectly and the install was on more than 50 computers

Dark Star said:
I installed edubuntu and Mandriva in my Mom's and my school all ran perfectly and the install was on more than 50 computers

You must be in a school with a decent management. Mine has idiots at the top level. You can't expect them to organise the systems properly and configure them using REAL brains.

UPDATE: I installed xfce4. I started messing with it, and finally tweaked it to resemble a mac on the insistance of the resident macboy in our school. Since he installed gnome-do, the system became sluggish. I made a dock for Xfce, using the built in dock widgets and autohide feature for a pannel and the shrink feature of a pannel. Then we put in transparency effects using Xfce-Composite. Finally it looked heavier than gnome. I got rid of everything and made a simple uni-taskbar version, with only ONE menu instead of two. I replaced the wallpaper with a simplistic plain colour which still looked good. Finally I got Ubuntu to work at warp high speeds and I started congratulating myself.

BUT

Suddenly, when I accessed the user manager to create new users, the next time I started the system every user disappered. Root got deleted. Then GDM got deleted. Both these users are no more. What do I do now ? I am not able to do administrative tasks.

@Metal,

I being on a P3 500 Mhz 384 MB SD RAM (133 Mhz) am running Fedora 9 with GUI.... and you say your specs are low ?? lol man...

On your spec you could run Fedora or Ubuntu! Kerala schools run modified-Ubuntu (src:newspaper).

^^Yea . .Gnome is must for newbies.. Why are you installing XFCE . they wioll remove it right away.. Student in Moms college are hapy with Mandriva and teachers too like ooo

I checked out Dream Linux a few hours back. ITS BEAUTIFUL. It runs both xfce and gnome, and its based on debian lenny at the moment. I had been avoiding it for a while since lenny is going stable. But I am thinking of installing it now. Its AWSSOME. It looks so good by default, and Xfce on it is really very responsive and fast. It runs with dock and uses very little ram. Gnome also uses very little ram.

MetalheadGautham said:
I checked out Dream Linux a few hours back. ITS BEAUTIFUL. It runs both xfce and gnome, and its based on debian lenny at the moment. I had been avoiding it for a while since lenny is going stable. But I am thinking of installing it now. Its AWSSOME. It looks so good by default, and Xfce on it is really very responsive and fast. It runs with dock and uses very little ram. Gnome also uses very little ram.

FYI, since Fedora 9; GNOME uses less memory... that's what I feel as I have used Fedora's 6, 7, 8, 9... and 9 is the best of all and fast too than others! (NOTE: its on a P3 500 Mhz 384 MB SD RAM [133 Mhz]). : )

The Unknown said:
FYI, since Fedora 9; GNOME uses less memory... that's what I feel as I have used Fedora's 6, 7, 8, 9... and 9 is the best of all and fast too than others! (NOTE: its on a P3 500 Mhz 384 MB SD RAM [133 Mhz]). : )

Yeah I checked that. Xfce uses 145mb and gnome 170mb with gnome-system-monitor. Not bad at all.

MetalheadGautham said:
Yeah I checked that. Xfce uses 145mb and gnome 170mb with gnome-system-monitor. Not bad at all.

Just do it off with Fedora... remove the server and development packages (unwanted like make, gcc, etc.) for kids... and run wine... they would be happy to see many of their games running on wine 1.0! and of course Fedora is a rocking distro (Alpha 10 [Cambridge] released yesterday)

The Unknown said:
Just do it off with Fedora... remove the server and development packages (unwanted like make, gcc, etc.) for kids... and run wine... they would be happy to see many of their games running on wine 1.0! and of course Fedora is a rocking distro (Alpha 10 [Cambridge] released yesterday)

I am getting CentOS 5.2

MetalheadGautham said:
I am getting CentOS 5.2

Cent OS is normally isn't used for User purposes... its basically optimised for server use..

The Unknown said:
Cent OS is normally isn't used for User purposes... its basically optimised for server use..

Exactly. Its an enterprise OS with good server capabilities. You know what that means ? It means the system is very STABLE. Thats the #1 thing you need for a server OS. It can hardly crash. And it does not have too much extra weight while running. I can configure it to make it as light as possible. And since it has huge gap between releases, I am not left searching for the next new version. All this along with the fact that Enterprise Linux is the most commonly used distro in large enterprises (duh) makes this the perfect starting point for creating a good distro for STUDENTS. Fedora is more geared towards the power user, the home user and the workstation user.

MetalheadGautham said:
Yeah I checked that. Xfce uses 145mb and gnome 170mb with gnome-system-monitor. Not bad at all.

I got Xfce using ~65 Megs here on startup.
You sure you got the right figures?

@ray: yeah. live.

now I downloaded CentOS. Going to give it a whirl.

^Oh , On a live cd? Ok.

M

The Unknown said:
Cent OS is normally isn't used for User purposes... its basically optimised for server use..

Servers don't have users?

T

k6153r said:
Geany is a gr8 IDE.

BTW, I'm 17 and don't think that age group (11-18 ) are so dumb.

I agree with you. Even I' am 13 and I have tasted several distros of Linux, able to design a Website entirely in notepad, know a command or two of DOS and assembled a Fedora P.C. for my friend from some old hardware lying around in both of our house.

ray|raven said:
^Oh , On a live cd? Ok.

Hey it was still awssome. The live CD was about as responsive, if not faster, as the Ubuntu Gnome which I had previously installed ON the harddisc.

But the install freezes when I reach the part where I need to install grub. I was going to try to install it first in the root partition, then use a live CD to manually install grub. But then, that was supposed to be today and I am not feeling well.

tallbeing said:
I agree with you. Even I' am 13 and I have tasted several distros of Linux, able to design a Website entirely in notepad, know a command or two of DOS and assembled a Fedora P.C. for my friend from some old hardware lying around in both of our house.

DOS ? In Linux ?

^What distro again? Btw , did you by chance choose Xfs as filesystem?
Coz Grub and Xfs dont go together.

ray|raven said:
^What distro again? Btw , did you by chance choose Xfs as filesystem?
Coz Grub and Xfs dont go together.

Lets see...

Dream Linux
/boot ======> ext2
/ ==========> XFS

mehulved said:
Servers don't have users?

Servers do have users... I meant other distros like ubuntu or fedora are much better if you are going to use the desktop for general-purposes in the sense NON-SERVER use.

MetalheadGautham said:
Exactly. Its an enterprise OS with good server capabilities. You know what that means ? It means the system is very STABLE. Thats the #1 thing you need for a server OS. It can hardly crash. And it does not have too much extra weight while running. I can configure it to make it as light as possible. And since it has huge gap between releases, I am not left searching for the next new version. All this along with the fact that Enterprise Linux is the most commonly used distro in large enterprises (duh) makes this the perfect starting point for creating a good distro for STUDENTS. Fedora is more geared towards the power user, the home user and the workstation user.

Our main interest is in the GUI coz ppl new to Linux will generally look for a pleasant GUI instead of a Command Prompt which says [user@localhost~]$

: P

PS: I don't mean that you can't install a GUI in Cent OS

installed centos desktop gnome and desktop kde.
not impressed.
red hat file organisation sucks.
gnome 2.16 sucks.
kde 3.5 rocks.
commandline as root is horrible.
needs some serious upgrades.

T

MetalheadGautham said:
DOS ? In Linux ?

I mean that I know a bit of DOS commands, not much just to establish that 11 to 18 yr old kids are not that dumb. It has nothing to do with linux. I am sorry for your misconception

tallbeing said:
I mean that I know a bit of DOS commands, not much just to establish that 11 to 18 yr old kids are not that dumb. It has nothing to do with linux. I am sorry for your misconception

Oh... alright then.
But I must add, you seem rather too smart for a 13 year old

MetalheadGautham said:
Oh... alright then.
But I must add, you seem rather too smart for a 13 year old

what about me ? i'm 16

^^ Don't worry. You are perfectly normal.

It was the extreme knowledge of HTML which tallbeing claimed he knows that surprised me. HTML was never my strong point, nor was it the strong point of most of my friends (with the exception of a single HTML guru I know).

MetalheadGautham said:
^^ Don't worry. You are perfectly normal.

It was the extreme knowledge of HTML which tallbeing claimed he knows that surprised me. HTML was never my strong point, nor was it the strong point of most of my friends (with the exception of a single HTML guru I know).

HTML is easy but requires a kind of imagination skill which I too don't have... but yeah I am a good programmer in PHP

K

Or use openwebdesign.org, modify the theme mercilessly (shamelessly), and claim it to be ours.

I stole a piece of code from someone's theme from there, and modified it like hell, and now even the FBI/CBI can't find it.

I too learnt HTML when I was 13, from "Spinning the Web".

And computer teachers in our school would secretly ask me for doubts (just simple ones, but they DID ask me).

S

Offtopic:I am looking for a good Linux distro for my PC.Arch was too tough.Umm not that much but it hanged during installation.My noobiness I guess.
Vista is P1$$ing me off.What say about Slackware,Zenwalk and Fedora 9?
Should make the most out of the least like arch does,should run KDE4.1 and if possible should be debian based.At last,should be easy.
Thnaks You

@Gautham,Sorry for highjaking your thread

^Your search might end at openSUSE 11

Sunny1211993 said:
Offtopic:I am looking for a good Linux distro for my PC.Arch was too tough.Umm not that much but it hanged during installation.My noobiness I guess.
Vista is P1$$ing me off.What say about Slackware,Zenwalk and Fedora 9?
Should make the most out of the least like arch does,should run KDE4.1 and if possible should be debian based.At last,should be easy.
Thnaks You

@Gautham,Sorry for highjaking your thread

I warned you but you never listened. You need basics boy. Slackware and Fedora 9 will both pwn you as much as, if not more than arch. Distros like Arch and Slack are for either highly experienced linux users or for those who are strong at linux fundamentals.

YOU on the other hand need a strong LEARNING path. In such a situation, the only Debian can help you, since you are already familiar with Ubuntu. Do you like gnome, kde or xfce ?

[I think you are the perfect canditate for this distro project I am doing. I am sure you will enjoy this distro if I upload the finished version. You intrested ?]

rahimveron said:
^Your search might end at openSUSE 11

It won't. He hates OpenSuSE.

MetalheadGautham said:
I warned you but you never listened. You need basics boy. Slackware and Fedora 9 will both pwn you as much as, if not more than arch. Distros like Arch and Slack are for either highly experienced linux users or for those who are strong at linux fundamentals.

YOU on the other hand need a strong LEARNING path. In such a situation, the only Debian can help you, since you are already familiar with Ubuntu. Do you like gnome, kde or xfce ?

[I think you are the perfect canditate for this distro project I am doing. I am sure you will enjoy this distro if I upload the finished version. You intrested ?]

It won't. He hates OpenSuSE.

plus Fedora 9 too... when I started using Fedora Core 6 I was NULL about Linux

learned all this from experience and experiments

S

Hatred won't do any good.650MB of 4.3 GB downloaded.Lets see what OpenSuse 11 has to offer.10.3 was to bloated on my 8600 GT,2Gig RAM,Pentium D PC.

Sunny1211993 said:
Hatred won't do any good.650MB of 4.3 GB downloaded.Lets see what OpenSuse 11 has to offer.10.3 was to bloated on my 8600 GT,2Gig RAM,Pentium D PC.

10.3 sucked. 11.0 rocks. most ppl say its faster than ubuntu 8.04 on higher ram.

S

What say about it on 4Gigs RAM?

Sunny1211993 said:
What say about it on 4Gigs RAM?

2GB itself is enough

S

I like being insane.Does it have KDE 4.1?I'm downloading the 4.3 gigs DVD.Abhi DL chal raha hai.This is my last spam in this thread.

Sunny1211993 said:
I like being insane.Does it have KDE 4.1?I'm downloading the 4.3 gigs DVD.Abhi DL chal raha hai.This is my last spam in this thread.

It has KDE4, not 4.1 I guess. But you can always upgrade. 1MBPS UL hai na

.

All KDE distros today are quite messed up due to release issues. So you need to do upgrading after installation to get KDE 4.1.

S

^^
Only OS update na?Like normal updates.

Sunny1211993 said:
^^
Only OS update na?Like normal updates.

Yes

Try OpenSuse.
its also given in this months DVD

S

^^
I don't buy Digit mag.

I started out with Fedora 3; about 4 yrs ago. And did almost everything on it except using internet

. Didnt know how to configure my modem. But am not that bad now.

@MetalheadGautham
How about that PUDLinux? I checked it out today on VM. Its pretty good. And the vast repos available are always a plus. And added to it is Ubuntu usability @ lightening speeds.

IronManForever said:
I started out with Fedora 3; about 4 yrs ago. And did almost everything on it except using internet . Didnt know how to configure my modem. But am not that bad now.

@MetalheadGautham
How about that PUDLinux? I checked it out today on VM. Its pretty good. And the vast repos available are always a plus. And added to it is Ubuntu usability @ lightening speeds.

modem configuration on Linux has always been a issue as most of the internal modems are "winmodems" which are designed to work with Linux's enemy only. For Linux some manufacturers have special series which are compatible with Linux also.

But yeah if you have a external modem then you can easily configure it using serial port (COM 1,2) as [/dev/ttyS0, /dev/ttyS1].

How about BOSS Linux ? BOSS = Bharat Operating System Solutions

I'm not joking... its there... google for it.

IronManForever said:
I started out with Fedora 3; about 4 yrs ago. And did almost everything on it except using internet . Didnt know how to configure my modem. But am not that bad now.

@MetalheadGautham
How about that PUDLinux? I checked it out today on VM. Its pretty good. And the vast repos available are always a plus. And added to it is Ubuntu usability @ lightening speeds.

PUDLinux ??? DAMN. I keep forgetting to download that.

Today morning I woke up with something in mind but forgot to download it.
And is it based on ubunut 8.04 or 7.04 ???
Can I get faster opt-get package downloads anywhere ?

The Unknown said:
modem configuration on Linux has always been a issue as most of the internal modems are "winmodems" which are designed to work with Linux's enemy only. For Linux some manufacturers have special series which are compatible with Linux also.

But yeah if you have a external modem then you can easily configure it using serial port (COM 1,2) as [/dev/ttyS0, /dev/ttyS1].

How about BOSS Linux ? BOSS = Bharat Operating System Solutions I'm not joking... its there... google for it.

Seen BOSS. But I am intrested in doing something from the scratch. Today is time for Sackware

S

OpenSuse 11 DVD done.How to configure my USB WiFi dongle?

M

The Unknown said:
How about BOSS Linux ? BOSS = Bharat Operating System Solutions I'm not joking... its there... google for it.

That's the problem, that it's there. It would be so much for the better if it wasn't there.

mehulved said:
That's the problem, that it's there. It would be so much for the better if it wasn't there.

mehulved said:
That's the problem, that it's there. It would be so much for the better if it wasn't there.

+1
its existance means that I have got my work cut out, since I need to dosomething better, or, atleast, LIGHTER so that it can't compete with me. But with Debian/Slackware with Xfce being my desktop, I stand a fair chance.

M

MetalheadGautham said:
+1
its existance means that I have got my work cut out, since I need to dosomething better, or, atleast, LIGHTER so that it can't compete with me.

LOL LMAO

Mission Accomplished ?

I have settled with Debian Lenny derived Dream Linux for my distro. I finished configuring the 2.6.26.2 kernel for its hardware and tomorrow I need to run the make bzImage command. Everything has gone smoothly and I am seeing no trouble at all. Due to a partial install which was cancelled at 92%, I am running an apt-get dist-upgrade to set everything right. Educational apps are pouring in too.

We have managed to give it a name, SLOS, standing for Scholastic Linux Operating System, and one of my team mates designed a nice logo-cum-wallpaper for it which I am going to post here later after its patched up.

But as far as spreading linux goes, I really think I am making lots of progress. Many who see me working on it in the lab are starting to appriciate the beauty of linux. They are surprised by the performance, good looks and ease of use. Ofcourse, when I work in commandline, they often wonder what I am doing, but seeing the translucent terminal, many are eager to work in commandline mode too. I guess I have not been carried away from my original objective of seeing this thing impress people to an extent which makes them use it and feel its beauty.

I would like to thank everyone here who helped me, since phase 1 and phase 2 of the project's development cycle are completed. Its in its alpha state, and only phases 3 (software adding and organising), 4 (performance optimisations) and 5 (finishing look) are left.

great work.......
carry on

MetalheadGautham said:
Mission Accomplished ?

I have settled with Debian Lenny derived Dream Linux for my distro. I finished configuring the 2.6.26.2 kernel for its hardware and tomorrow I need to run the make bzImage command. Everything has gone smoothly and I am seeing no trouble at all. Due to a partial install which was cancelled at 92%, I am running an apt-get dist-upgrade to set everything right. Educational apps are pouring in too.

We have managed to give it a name, SLOS, standing for Scholastic Linux Operating System, and one of my team mates designed a nice logo-cum-wallpaper for it which I am going to post here later after its patched up.

But as far as spreading linux goes, I really think I am making lots of progress. Many who see me working on it in the lab are starting to appriciate the beauty of linux. They are surprised by the performance, good looks and ease of use. Ofcourse, when I work in commandline, they often wonder what I am doing, but seeing the translucent terminal, many are eager to work in commandline mode too. I guess I have not been carried away from my original objective of seeing this thing impress people to an extent which makes them use it and feel its beauty.

I would like to thank everyone here who helped me, since phase 1 and phase 2 of the project's development cycle are completed. Its in its alpha state, and only phases 3 (software adding and organising), 4 (performance optimisations) and 5 (finishing look) are left.

ddd metaaaaaaaaaaal *s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/visio159/Unismilies/77.png

Good progress Gautham

OK guys, here is a problem: the UPS screwed up and it had to be restarted. I was going through a dist-upgrade. Now when I try dpkg --configure -a to fix things and then resume dist-upgrade, I get a series of error messages finally it gives up telling too many errors. I am not able to access X. Recovary mode is GONE. And this is for that same dream linux install which I finished at 92% with a reboot. I am preparing a live CD at home, but what about that distro ? What do I do now ? How do I fix it ?

Tomorrow is submission date. I hope all goes well and nothing bad happens. I am going to start building the distro right now in my house, after emptying a partition and then installing dream in it.

Best of Luck Gautham

Do you think its wise to remove my painfully configured windows install to install debian ?
Otherwise, what software can I use to make an image (uncompressed) of the windows install partition ? Its totally about 7.3GB in size.

^You seem to be out of space. When i was using Windows, used Acronis.
It might be noobish but may copy the contents od c: and edit menu.lst to restore Windows later. Most of the users talk so much about rsync,

Well, I reduced the w+indows drive to 3.3GB. Easy to store now. Just tell me how to back it up via linux.

^CloneZilla seems good. Try it.

Symantec Ghost who? A list of open source alternatives

Offtopic :

rahimveron said:
^CloneZilla seems good. Try it.

Symantec Ghost who? A list of open source alternatives

Thank you for that link. I knew some of them, going to try more.

Well, I finally managed to free up disc space in a partition and everything was finished. However, here are some things that happened:

1. Dream is SOOO Screwed. It gets tonnes and tonnes of errors on a dist-upgrade. Perhaps its because I had to install 744mb of software.

2. I am going to stay away from debian till Lenny becomes stable. Currently its HORRIBLE and I have no way of getting the latest images since I have something else to download.

3. I withdrew from JNSE, for two reasons: Firtly, thanks to the unreliable lenny, I couldn't install anything. Secondly, Education Technology was a topic last year but its not one this year. So I needed to shift the topic to mathematical modelling and throw in a bunch of mathematics related software. But the idea never kicked off strongly enough and I gave up calling it a bad job since my team mates were not willing to do all the work in 5 hours. Maybe I might end up in the Intel Scinece Discovery Fare. Who knows ?...

4. But I am not giving up the distro as a whole, and I am even more inspired to perfect it now. Once Debian Lenny Stable is out, I am going to create a set of DVDs, with a single Live CD custom made containing the base distro, base installer and themes along with basic apps and recovary stuff. The DVDs would be from the debian disc releases, but I am including a shell script to install from the DVD all educational packages. I am also considering a deployment ready live DVD containing a typical school linux system preinstalled.

5. The distro is still going to be Xfce based. No change there.

6. I am thinking of getting myself a sourceforge account once I create the first Live CD.

7. All these *thinking* parts have ALREADY been tested, and I have calculated the sizes of the resultant distro in each case and I have also planned the packages. Googling for Scientist Ubuntu and the first link gave me EVERYTHING I need. I can't help admiring the ubuntu docs. But I don't know if there exists an installer with linux-live-scripts.

MetalheadGautham said:
Well, I finally managed to free up disc space in a partition and everything was finished. However, here are some things that happened:

1. Dream is SOOO Screwed. It gets tonnes and tonnes of errors on a dist-upgrade. Perhaps its because I had to install 744mb of software.

2. I am going to stay away from debian till Lenny becomes stable. Currently its HORRIBLE and I have no way of getting the latest images since I have something else to download.

3. I withdrew from JNSE, for two reasons: Firtly, thanks to the unreliable lenny, I couldn't install anything. Secondly, Education Technology was a topic last year but its not one this year. So I needed to shift the topic to mathematical modelling and throw in a bunch of mathematics related software. But the idea never kicked off strongly enough and I gave up calling it a bad job since my team mates were not willing to do all the work in 5 hours. Maybe I might end up in the Intel Scinece Discovery Fare. Who knows ?...

4. But I am not giving up the distro as a whole, and I am even more inspired to perfect it now. Once Debian Lenny Stable is out, I am going to create a set of DVDs, with a single Live CD custom made containing the base distro, base installer and themes along with basic apps and recovary stuff. The DVDs would be from the debian disc releases, but I am including a shell script to install from the DVD all educational packages. I am also considering a deployment ready live DVD containing a typical school linux system preinstalled.

5. The distro is still going to be Xfce based. No change there.

6. I am thinking of getting myself a sourceforge account once I create the first Live CD.

7. All these *thinking* parts have ALREADY been tested, and I have calculated the sizes of the resultant distro in each case and I have also planned the packages. Googling for Scientist Ubuntu and the first link gave me EVERYTHING I need. I can't help admiring the ubuntu docs. But I don't know if there exists an installer with linux-live-scripts.

Great going.

Sad to hear your withdrawal

but carry on with your efforts though

@din: Yah that link is very informative and when are you preparing a How-To on it?

great going......
carry on

M

No one but you is to blame here, gautham. You just started too late in the day....err night. You hardly left any room for errors. One error and it was all finished anyways. You should have started atleast 2 days early. Your effort is good, appreciate that but please leave some time for contingencies. And I wonder how much of your failure is attributed to your +'s

mehulved said:
No one but you is to blame here, gautham. You just started too late in the day....err night. You hardly left any room for errors. One error and it was all finished anyways. You should have started atleast 2 days early. Your effort is good, appreciate that but please leave some time for contingencies. And I wonder how much of your failure is attributed to your +'s

The problem is power cuts. XFS should NOT be used in an area full of power cuts.

Another problem was that this deadline was SUDDENLY announced and hence I had little time to work with. I had just finished my exams for the month and this guy comes and tells me submit it tomorrow.

As for those errors, they are un-avoidable. I could do NOTHING about them. Even when I upgraded in init3, I got these issues. I still don't understand why my 1GB upgrade of Sidux went smoothly under the same conditions, while the relatively more stable debian lenny in dream linux got pwned.

I had an opportunity to send my copy of arch, but then, I wanted something upto my own standards. A debian stable release looked PERFECT to me, but sadly it could never happen properly.

About those +'s, yeah, I had to keep using backspace often in the console.

It was only today I realised how benificial it is for a distro to have a robust and most importantly, an EASY TO USE set of commandline tools for any fixing. But debian NEEDS X to run most administrative tasks, thats +what my experience has taught.

Finally, I did't want to end up like Beojan, the creator of Beejex Linux which is a debian unstable based distro. He made the distro insanely easy to use in the first release, but he forgot to make a good installer. He used Damn Small Linux and a shell script to install the distro (actually a compressed hard disc image) and one had to manually chroot it to use it. I don't know what happened to his second release, but I think he was going to use linux-live-scripts this time.

M

MetalheadGautham said:
But debian NEEDS X to run most administrative tasks, thats +what my experience has taught.

What debian is that?

mehulved said:
What debian is that?

Dream Linux.

I suppose it could just be that I don't know how to configure debian via commandline, but I must say, arch has one of the easiest commandlines I have ever used. Its all in its installer. Configuring there taught me EVERYTHING about configuring arch in commandline.

But going back to dream, it doesn't bundle popular commandline software like lynx, irssi, nano, by default. This is unjustified when it has crap like a dock.