A thought on the purpose of Bill& Melinda gates foundation

Just read about B&M foundation

:- perhaps RMS(Richard M Stallman ,Software Gandhi) 's ideas about M$ and Bill are true.

PS :I have posted only relevent parts of the news :

Dark cloud over good works of Gates Foundation

Investing for profit

AT the end of 2005, the Gates Foundation endowment stood at $35 billion, making it the largest in the world. Then in June 2006, Warren E. Buffett, the world's second-richest man after Bill Gates, pledged to add about $31 billion in installments from his personal fortune. Not counting tens of billions of dollars more that Gates himself has promised, the total is higher than the gross domestic products of 70% of the world's nations.

Like most philanthropies, the Gates Foundation gives away at least 5% of its worth every year, to avoid paying most taxes. In 2005, it granted nearly $1.4 billion. It awards grants mainly in support of global health initiatives, for efforts to improve public education in the United States, and for social welfare programs in the Pacific Northwest.

It invests the other 95% of its worth. This endowment is managed by Bill Gates Investments, which handles Gates' personal fortune. Monica Harrington, a senior policy officer at the foundation, said the investment managers had one goal: returns "that will allow for the continued funding of foundation programs and grant making." Bill and Melinda Gates require the managers to keep a highly diversified portfolio, but make no specific directives.

By comparing these investments with information from for-profit services that analyze corporate behavior for mutual funds, pension managers, government agencies and other foundations, The Times found that the Gates Foundation has holdings in many companies that have failed tests of social responsibility because of environmental lapses, employment discrimination, disregard for worker rights, or unethical practices.

One of these investment rating services, Calvert Group Ltd., for example, endorses 52 of the largest 100 U.S. companies based on market capitalization, but flags the other 48 for transgressions against social responsibility. Microsoft Corp., which Bill Gates leads as board chairman, is rated highly for its overall business practices, despite its history of antitrust problems.

In addition, The Times found the Gates Foundation endowment had major holdings in:

• Companies ranked among the worst U.S. and Canadian polluters, including ConocoPhillips, Dow Chemical Co. and Tyco International Ltd.

• Many of the world's other major polluters, including companies that own an oil refinery and one that owns a paper mill, which a study shows sicken children while the foundation tries to save their parents from AIDS.

• Pharmaceutical companies that price drugs beyond the reach of AIDS patients the foundation is trying to treat.

Using the most recent data available, a Times tally showed that hundreds of Gates Foundation investments — totaling at least $8.7 billion, or 41% of its assets, not including U.S. and foreign government securities — have been in companies that countered the foundation's charitable goals or socially concerned philosophy.

This is "the dirty secret" of many large philanthropies, said Paul Hawken, an expert on socially beneficial investing who directs the Natural Capital Institute, an investment research group. "Foundations donate to groups trying to heal the future," Hawken said in an interview, "but with their investments, they steal from the future."

Moreover, investing in destructive or unethical companies is not what is most harmful, said Hawken and other experts, including Douglas Bauer, senior vice president of Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors, a nonprofit group that assists foundations on policy and ethical issues. Worse, they said, is investing purely for profit, without attempting to improve a company's way of operating.

Such blind-eye investing, they noted, rewards bad behavior.

At the Gates Foundation, blind-eye investing has been enforced by a firewall it has erected between its grant-making side and its investing side. The goals of the former are not allowed to interfere with the investments of the latter.

The foundation recently announced a plan to institutionalize that firewall by moving its assets into a separate organization, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Trust. Its two trustees will be Bill and Melinda Gates. The trust will invest to increase the endowment, while the foundation gives grants.

*www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gatesx07jan07,0,4205044,full.story

I was reading the slashdot comments and almost unanimously most of them agreed ,that this foundation is not really for "charity" as it seems to be :!:

My look at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation shows it was founded with two primary purposes:

- Tax dodge--giving money to a charity reduces his personal income taxes. By giving it to a charity he controls, he gets additional benefits.
- As PR for Microsoft against the anti-trust investigation.
Bill Gates has been rich since the 1980s, but his Foundation didn't really get any significant money until 1999. And then Bill then realized around 2004 that he could run his Foundation as his "retirement", and so started giving it more focus.
By checking out the contributions provided at www.gatesfoundation.org, you can see (this is complicated by the fact he had two charities, with the primary one now being the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation):
- As of 1998, Bill Gates had donated a grand total of $300million to both of his charities. That's not for that year, that's over all previous years combined, with interest/appreciation. This number is embarrassingly low for a person worth $100billion. However, it's probably just about the right amount to maximize his tax savings on a yearly basis. Also, the charity was building an endowment, and not spending all that much money.
- Then suddenly, in 1999, in the middle of the Microsoft anti-trust lawsuit, he gives $15 billion. He gives another $5 billion in 2000.
- Then, once the anti-trust lawsuit effectively ended, in 2001, he gives $0. Yup, check it out yourself. Probably because he took a loss that year due to the stock market drop, didn't need the tax writeoff anymore, and didn't need the PR.
- In 2002, he gives $82.5million, again, back to the tax dodge. He gives $81.9 million in 2003. He's still worth $40-50 billion dollars due to Microsoft stock.
- In 2004, he starts to give his charity a little more notice, and starts donating $700million in 2004, $442 million in 2005, $333million in 2006, and $1.2billion in 2007.
I wouldn't be surprised if the recipients of his money found it had lots of strings attached, but I'm not interested enough to dig up all this dirt. Although it's nice he's giving some of his money away, IMNSHO, it's just about the least he could do (except for the $20billion PR stunt). I also think the expenses for this foundation are quite high, and are probably more of a tax dodge. The foundation also spends considerably less than he has contributed, so it's building a very large endowment. It seems benign. So far.
I liken it to a king tossing silver coins to the rabble around his carriage--but doing it only when the press is around.

*news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=604653&cid=24065769

Very complicated, but remember, most corporates invest in social projects to lower their tax burden, and they all try to potray it in good light, nothing new here.

Even if this is true, which I don't think it is, he has helped a lot around the globe and that's what matters. And it should be appreciated, not ridiculed so.

goobimama said:
Even if this is true, which I don't think it is, he has helped a lot around the globe and that's what matters. And it should be appreciated, not ridiculed so.

+100. You said exactly what I wanted to say.

Its a perfectly legal thing. Even in India a number of businesses do it. BITS itself was one such thing at the beginning. Google does it through Google.org.

At the end of the day, it is helping real people with real problems. There is no beating that. If Bill gets some tax benefits, well dont we all do tax planning. So does it make us all monopolist.

BTW Praka almost 90% of the people on th forum know who RMS is. The rest can google it. The Wikipedia link was absolutely not required.

FOSS Supportes seems like they r getting frustrated everyday

its a much better option rather than paying the govt and filling up corrupt politicians accounts!!

praka123 said:
Just read about B&M foundation :- perhaps RMS(Richard M Stallman ,Software Gandhi) 's ideas about M$ and Bill are true.

PS :I have posted only relevent parts of the news :

*www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gatesx07jan07,0,4205044,full.story

I was reading the slashdot comments and almost unanimously most of them agreed ,that this foundation is not really for "charity" as it seems to be

*news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=604653&cid=24065769

Dude. We know that you hate MS a lot but don't take it too much personally.

Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation did a lot to the world. In the end, that's what matters. Please keep this away from the politics of technology. Its a sincere request.

goobimama said:
Even if this is true, which I don't think it is, he has helped a lot around the globe and that's what matters. And it should be appreciated, not ridiculed so.

Exactly!! Give it a rest, things like these make people wonder if you've got nothing better to do than slate all non-believers.

gx_saurav said:
FOSS Supportes seems like they r getting frustrated everyday

Not all. There are only a hand few who are ruining the whole FOSS movement by their antics and they are ones who are getting frustrated everyday.

bill gates sleeps in bombay

@others: there is no need to Link FOSS with this. it is the few frustrated souls who want to do this .

Obviously it is a NEWS!NOT AN OPINION JFYI.

also there is no need to jump to protect the biggest monopoly and its head m1ron

Even ,Bill Gate$ sure using it to save taxes .but more than that ,those money he "supposedly" invest is going to few evil companies who FUD GNU/Linux

and other competitors he got for his window$ platform.

and those he gave for "free education" is to brain-wash budding kids mind to stick with window$ platform.

There is absolutely no need to get panic like your father is questioned(for some souls you know who)

offtopic: I found a nice game here:
*www.killbillgates.com/

^^hmm.

One simple question: Bill gates donated $3million towards Asian Tsunami victims. How much did FOSS donate?

in 2005, Gates and Norway inject $1-billion to vaccinate children. How many vaccines did FOSS give out for free? 10? 20? or nothing??

Gates donates US$5B to Gates charity in 2000.

Name few other companies in IT that makes such huge contributions?

FYI, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is run by William gates (father of Bill).

Showing mistakes is wise but showing everything as mistake is foolishness. Please don't disgrace FOSS by your stupid rants!!!

desiibond said:
^^hmm.

One simple question: Bill gates donated $3million towards Asian Tsunami victims. How much did FOSS donate?

in 2005, Gates and Norway inject $1-billion to vaccinate children. How many vaccines did FOSS give out for free? 10? 20? or nothing??

Gates donates US$5B to Gates charity in 2000.

Name few other companies in IT that makes such huge contributions?

FYI, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is run by William gates (father of Bill).

Showing mistakes is wise but showing everything as mistake is foolishness. Please don't disgrace FOSS by your stupid rants!!!

I hope you know what FOSS is! Its kinda funny how you directly compare "Bill Gates" and "FOSS"!

The lengths to which some people would go to bash MS and Gates...

Exactly, this is what the problem is with the thread, everyone is trying to compare apples to oranges. FOSS is a great movement but it is restricted to a number of people with computers. Most of the people in the world have problems, real problems where the kernel code would be of the least possible help. AIDS, displacement, lack of life saving vaccination. We are talking about problems which can kill generations in one go. Not having access to the source code is not really going to kill that many people IMHO.

Anyway another war is brewing here so I am out!

@ gx : There was no need to bring in the FOSS Supporter aspect. By doing so you added more fuel to the pit waiting to be ignited.

@ praka when will you learn? One person in this thread used words like 'm1ron' and one person posted irrelevant provocative links. Guess who that is.

I am leaving the thread open for now, but there better not be any flame war over here.
_______________________________________________

Dark cloud over good works of Gates Foundation <-- Talk about over sensationalising something which everyone, everyone with a bit of knowledge about tax structure knows.
Heck, we had income tax in class 10 (mathematics paper), and from whatever limited we were taught it was obvious you can get tax benefits by donating (atleast in India).
Guess what everyone does it. Some donate for the tax-benefit, some donate because they really want to help.
Guess what in which category Bill Gates falls? It's not hard to deduce.
Most of the people who donate for donations sake wont bother creating a huge organisation like B&MGF. Wikipedia says its the largest transparently operated private foundation in the world. It takes a lot of effort to set up and get something like that running.
Most people who donate for donations sake are likely to simply donate to other existing organisation. Or even if they do create their own organisation its often a hotch potch organisation without any real structure or transparency.

And anyway, a donation is a donation (as long as you are donating hard earned white money) and it should always be appreciated as it will make someone else's life better.

iNFiNiTE said:
The lengths to which some people would go to bash MS and Gates...

+1

desiibond said:
^^hmm.

One simple question: Bill gates donated $3million towards Asian Tsunami victims. How much did FOSS donate?

in 2005, Gates and Norway inject $1-billion to vaccinate children. How many vaccines did FOSS give out for free? 10? 20? or nothing??

Gates donates US$5B to Gates charity in 2000.

Name few other companies in IT that makes such huge contributions?

FYI, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is run by William gates (father of Bill).

Showing mistakes is wise but showing everything as mistake is foolishness. Please don't disgrace FOSS by your stupid rants!!!

I think YOU dont have slightest idea of What Free/Libre Open Source Software is!GO ,research and come back

FOSS is NOT Monopoly.

The First line in your post is the most stupid thing I have read after months

FYI ,FOSS is not controlled by me.also ,it is very pathetic when we find people still appreciates Bill gate$(and M$) .IIRC ,One should be able to judge what is behind the works(window$ for eg). some countries banned leather from India for obvious reasons. <----- Just an example

Your constant barrage of Microsoft and Bill Gates is ultimately making FOSS look bad. Really. For people to switch, promoting Linux rather than bashing Microsoft will go a long way...

Imagine telling someone that their car is the worst thing ever made, that it looks ugly, and the manufacturers of the car are criminals, and driving it makes him a stupid person. Would that person listen to any more of you?

I am expressing my opinions you know.

praka123 said:
I am expressing my opinions you know.

No, you arent just expressing your opinion, you are shouting it out near everyones ears and shoving it down their throat.

it is very pathetic when we find people still appreciates Bill gate

If you want others to respect your opinions and to take you seriously, you should learn to respect others opinion.

ah well! you ppl are focusing on me rather than the Original News.

.I think ,I earlier itself said ,I dont care if any of you are interested or to lure you to FOSS.I just post the better options and its upto the 1users to chose.

Why not YOU ppl just express your views on this topic rather than mixing FOSS?

praka123 said:
it is very pathetic when we find people still appreciates Bill gate$

I am wondering how still people justify this person?do any of you live with him?do any of you feel good for his monopoly?

....now I am feeling like Jesus among ignorant and hypocrat j2ws .

coming to OP :another interesting read :

It's not the Gates, it's the bars

To pay so much attention to Bill Gates' retirement is missing the point. What really matters is not Gates, nor Microsoft, but the unethical system of restrictions that Microsoft, like many other software companies, imposes on its customers.

That statement may surprise you, since most people interested in computers have strong feelings about Microsoft. Businessmen and their tame politicians admire its success in building an empire over so many computer users.

Many outside the computer field credit Microsoft for advances which it only took advantage of, such as making computers cheap and fast, and convenient graphical user interfaces.

Gates' philanthropy for healthcare for poor countries has won some people's good opinion. The LA Times reported that his foundation spends five to 10% of its money annually and invests the rest, sometimes in companies it suggests cause environmental degradation and illness in the same poor countries.

Many computerists specially hate Gates and Microsoft. They have plenty of reasons.

----------------- 'Solicit funds'

Microsoft persistently engages in anti-competitive behavior, and has been convicted three times. George W Bush, who let Microsoft off the hook for the second U.S. conviction, was invited to Microsoft headquarters to solicit funds for the 2000 election.

Many users hate the ""Microsoft tax"", the retail contracts that make you pay for Windows on your computer even if you won't use it.

In some countries you can get a refund, but the effort required is daunting.

There's also the Digital Restrictions Management: software features designed to ""stop"" you from accessing your files freely. Increased restriction of users seems to be the main advance of Vista.

--------------------- 'Gratuitous incompatibilities'

Then there are the gratuitous incompatibilities and obstacles to interoperation with other software. This is why the EU required Microsoft to publish interface specifications.

This year Microsoft packed standards committees with its supporters to procure ISO approval of its unwieldy, unimplementable and patented ""open standard"" for documents. The EU is now investigating this.

These actions are intolerable, of course, but they are not isolated events. They are systematic symptoms of a deeper wrong which most people don't recognize: proprietary software.

Microsoft's software is distributed under licenses that keep users divided and helpless. The users are divided because they are forbidden to share copies with anyone else. The users are helpless because they don't have the source code that programmers can read and change.

If you're a programmer and you want to change the software, for yourself or for someone else, you can't.

If you're a business and you want to pay a programmer to make the software suit your needs better, you can't. If you copy it to share with your friend, which is simple good-neighborliness, they call you a ""pirate"".

---------------------- 'Unjust system'

Microsoft would have us believe that helping your neighbor is the moral equivalent of attacking a ship.

The most important thing that Microsoft has done is to promote this unjust social system.

Gates is personally identified with it, due to his infamous open letter which rebuked microcomputer users for sharing copies of his software.

It said, in effect, ""If you don't let me keep you divided and helpless, I won't write the software and you won't have any. Surrender to me, or you're lost!""

----------------- 'Change system'

But Gates didn't invent proprietary software, and thousands of other companies do the same thing. It's wrong, no matter who does it.

Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and the rest, offer you software that gives them power over you. A change in executives or companies is not important. What we need to change is this system.

That's what the free software movement is all about. ""Free"" refers to freedom: we write and publish software that users are free to share and modify.

We do this systematically, for freedom's sake; some of us paid, many as volunteers. We already have complete free operating systems, including GNU/Linux.

Our aim is to deliver a complete range of useful free software, so that no computer user will be tempted to cede her freedom to get software.

In 1984, when I started the free software movement, I was hardly aware of Gates' letter. But I'd heard similar demands from others, and I had a response: ""If your software would keep us divided and helpless, please don't write it. We are better off without it. We will find other ways to use our computers, and preserve our freedom.""

In 1992, when the GNU operating system was completed by the kernel, Linux, you had to be a wizard to run it. Today GNU/Linux is user-friendly: in parts of Spain and India, it's standard in schools. Tens of millions use it, around the world. You can use it too.

Gates may be gone, but the walls and bars of proprietary software he helped create remain, for now.

Dismantling them is up to us. (Source:BBC)

*www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=172587

praka123 said:
ah well! you ppl are focusing on me rather than the Original News. .I think ,I earlier itself said ,I dont care if any of you are interested or to lure you to FOSS.I just post the better options and its upto the 1users to chose.

Why not YOU ppl just express your views on this topic rather than mixing FOSS?

I am wondering how still people justify this person?do any of you live with him?do any of you feel good for his monopoly?

....now I am feeling like Jesus among ignorant and hypocrat j2ws .

coming to OP :another interesting read :

*www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=172587

Dude, you really need to take that Art of living course

You're obsessed with bringing down Bill gates & Microsoft!!! I hope this isn't contagious!!! :lol:

@pat:most of the forum members needs "Nellika-Thalam" :lol:

praka123 said:
I am wondering how still people justify this person?do any of you live with him?do any of you feel good for his monopoly?

In that case, all of us who donate to save taxes are as bad as Bill Gates!

Dude, you surely need to take a walk out.... and see how beautiful the world is.. Its not all about MS and FOSS. There's a lot more to it. Don't get me wrong or misunderstand me, I'm not attacking you but IMHO you haf a lot of frustration and anger inside you which needs to be let out. My suggestion would be to climb up a hill, shout all that you can and take the frustration out... It'll help.. everybody...

C

@Praka

I hate Microsoft's business practices (that includes Bill and Steve). I doubt the intentions of any large corporate's (or major corporate executive's) charity efforts. But I feel you are carrying things a bit too far. What is really necessary to share the flash movie link you had posted?? It kinda hurts the image of FOSS. FOSS has plenty of positives for itself like, freedom, a more robust and sustainable development model, zero vendor lock-in (and thus avoids monopoly), etc.

It is a different thing to refute many of the false statements about FOSS posted here (Digit Forum not this post). But please don't carry things too far. No offence meant.

@Others

Donating money to save taxes is not in anyway wrong. But if whoever does that should not be given the credit of being a "generous person". It is plain "tax-planning", not "Philanthropy". It is fine if Bill's foundation is donating or investing in anything. But just don't call it "Philanthropy".

praka123 said:
@pat:most of the forum members needs "Nellika-Thalam"

Sounds good, Is it something to eat?

To donate money, you need to have money. If you earn money and start donating you are evading taxes. :lol:

What a great logic people have! :lol:

C

BMG foundation does not just donate, it invests too. So it sounds more like any other investment business and not exactly a philanthropist body.

^exactly. they are into investing while in "charity" -no wonder the "philanthropist" bill gate$ is there to control! :lol:

bill gate$ :dont put your legs in two boats !It will be a disaster

I wish BMG foundation had a money plant (not the money plant) so that they would not have to invest.

... or Santa Clause who comes and drops money into BMG for donating. :lol:

Oh! btw, I just noticed someone is trying to teach Bill Gates about business and running an organization :lol:

chandru.in said:
@Praka

Donating money to save taxes is not in anyway wrong. But if whoever does that should not be given the credit of being a "generous person". It is plain "tax-planning", not "Philanthropy". It is fine if Bill's foundation is donating or investing in anything. But just don't call it "Philanthropy".

If donating billions of dollars is not philanthropy, I don't know what else is...
If they simply needed tax-planning, they would have done directly through MS. It will surely be a much more positive campaign for the company.

And since the money is to be used for public charity, IMHO such efforts should be lauded and encouraged, instead of childish name calling and venting out personal hatred.

C

amitava82 said:
I wish BMG foundation had a money plant (not the money plant) so that they would not have to invest.

Don't they have Microsoft and Bill's shares in it (he will hold it even after retirement)? I wonder if there is a more yielding money plant in this world than Microsoft.

iNFiNiTE said:
If donating billions of dollars is not philanthropy, I don't know what else is...

Donating is philanthropy, investments are not.

F

RANT

BMG foundation does not just donate, it invests too. So it sounds more like any other investment business and not exactly a philanthropist body.

Meaning of philanthropist:

1. The effort or inclination to increase the well-being of humankind, as by charitable aid or donations.
2. Love of humankind in general.
3. Something, such as an activity or institution, intended to promote human welfare.

How is BMG not doing any of the above? In my view what he has done is very noble. If we were going to say that every company evades taxes by donating then every single company in the world is a rip off artist. let me ask you all a question. You earn x billion dollars, Where you would have to play y million dollars as tax. Wouldn't anyone prefer to find a better cause for their money? So basically if they do donate they become tax evaders and scam artists. If they don't they are freaking self centered and selfish. Again, "Damned if they do , Damned if they don't"

Personally after reading this I've totally lost my opinion of Stallman. Picking on his software is one thing. Picking on contributions to the unfortunate ...... you so need to be shot.

/RANT

*img.skitch.com/20080708-e9q9c76cgp18yi2fdg2sk5ca6d.jpg
Hmm...

Why is it such a big problem to accept that it is okay to donate money and save on taxes at the same time? He is helping all those kids right? Not like he is doing some criminal activity of any kind.

C

Just one thing. Donation is different from investments. If I start a company which invests in several companies and it also donates few bucks, I can't call it philanthropist/charity. If they want to promote AIDS research let them donate to such research firms, why "invest" in them?

Several pharma firms invest in research of AIDS and cancer treatments. Does it make all its investors philanthropists? If so, I just bought few shares of a pharma company. Now I'm a philanthropist (just a small one though).

I know of several mutual fund houses which hold the shares too.

@goobimama

Even your pic says generous donations, not generous investments.

so if bill gate$ does investments undercover of "Philanthropy" it is called "Donation" ,I see!

F

Just one thing. Donation is different from investments. If I start a company which invests in several companies and it also donates few bucks, I can't call it philanthropist/charity.

Why not? How exactly are you saying that these are investments? Or does everyone here have some kind of l337 mind reading skills that somehow I lack. For all anyone knows he could have don't it out of the good of himself. And neither can Stallman nor anyone else can prove otherwise. Do you seriously think anyone can donate money without earning it?

Several pharma firms invest in research of AIDS and cancer treatments. Does it make all its investors philanthropists? If so, I just bought few shares of a pharma company. Now I'm a philanthropist (just a small one though). I know of several mutual fund houses which hold the shares too.

How exactly is Microsoft promoting its interests through this foundation? Can you show billions of dollars as returns? Even if they could They rightfully deserve it.

Personally I'm amazed at this topic being active. Seriously do the users of these forum stoop so low as to criticize donations made to the poor? I'm amazed. I'm just freaking amazed at some people. I pray that you never get the short end of the stick to be one of those unfortunate ones. But if you we're trust me you would personally seek out the person who made this news and have shot him yourself.

You seem more interested in whether Bill Gates is benefited by his donations or not rather than the charity aspect? Atleast he is giving out something to charity rather than the US Govt coffers. Whats wrong if he gets some tax benefits?

^ the thing is ,may I quote:

Gates' philanthropy for healthcare for poor countries has won some people's good opinion. The LA Times reported that his foundation spends five to 10% of its money annually and invests the rest, sometimes in companies it suggests cause environmental degradation and illness in the same poor countries.

(from one of my posts above).

Tell me?10% donation and 90% on investments on other corporations.do you call it charity? I can not!. let come on senses my friends. you ppl are too obsessed on tracing my moves rather than my posts

^^^ If he doesn't invest, how will he get money to donate?

While there is no doubt that Bill is saving millions of dollars this way which would've otherwise been written off as tax, we must also not forget that 10% (of what!!??!! thats teh huuuuge amount!) is really going in for humanitarian benefit. I guess two members here haf a problem with the term "philanthropist"... fine don't use it.. and close this useless topic! But if someone says that those 10% spent as donation is not useful for the betterment of mankind then that person is surely insane.

Another WAR!!! :lol:

lock this thread pls.. its going no where

^^^ +1. reported...

For a seemingly staunch blind Christian believer such as yourself @praka, who could go ahead and make a nazi-kinda statement like "....now I am feeling like Jesus among ignorant and hypocrat j2ws", you really don't seem to follow your Bible too well it seems.

Charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

- Bible, 1 Peter iv. 8

Go have a dose of nellika-talam yourself.

----

I had a lot of respect for RMS as a person and as a rationalist (even though I admit I find him crazy most of the times), but after this, he seems like just another frustrated praka.

True that. This thread is going nowhere.