AMD PHENOM FX(deneb 45nm) VS INTEL COREi7 (nehalem 45nm)

ultimategpu said:

->Advanced memory controller to the copy of AMD's memory Bandwidth architecture

Click to expand...

FYI, Hypertransport is not AMD's architecture. The technology is used by AMD and Transmeta in x86 processors, PMC-Sierra, Broadcom, and Raza Microelectronics in MIPS microprocessors, AMD, NVIDIA, VIA and SiS in PC chipsets, HP, Sun Microsystems, IBM, and Flextronics in servers, Cray, Newisys, QLogic, and XtremeData, Inc. in high performance computing, and Cisco Systems in routers.

HyperTransport Consortium is an industry consortium responsible for specifying and promoting the computer bus technology called HyperTransport. It is led by founding members Advanced Micro Devices, Alliance Semiconductor, Apple Computer, Broadcom Corporation, Cisco Systems, NVIDIA, PMC-Sierra, Sun Microsystems, and Transmeta.

Even before AMD started using this, there were companies like Nvidia and SUN that were already using this technology.

And if you say copy, you should know that AMD is still paying license fees to Intel for using Intel's X86 architecture. so, stop saying these things.

Coming back to topic, Intel's Nehalem based processors are the fastest at the moment. Deneb will be out next year and nobody has any idea how they will perform. So, it will be really stupid if you compare these two.

this total dumbness. Stop debating about something which is not even out yet.

Lot of members in this forum have respect for AMD and many are waiting for AMD to hit back with a product that would give them performance crown. There was no flame wars in this area and don't start one.

desiibond said:

Lot of members in this forum have respect for AMD and many are waiting for AMD to hit back with a product that would give them performance crown. There was no flame wars in this area and don't start one.

Click to expand...

Its not about flame wars. You can't just compare two CPUs when they have not even released. Especially things like overclockability. Thats one thing which can be the biggest lie ever when it shows up in the market. This thread should have started in January, not now.

desiibond said:

Lot of members in this forum have respect for AMD and many are waiting for AMD to hit back with a product that would give them performance crown. There was no flame wars in this area and don't start one.

Click to expand...

Both engineering sample have been tested and reviewed for Overclocking and stress test
->but they are not reviewed completely as you said , because some issues say that Intel brings out the L3 cache from the AMD technology and minimizing their own L2 cache , is this 8MB L3 cache makes makes the corei7 fast .

->As phenom FX is finally decided to launch first two models of FX-80 & FX-84 ,as the stock speed of 4ghz & 4.4ghz , but 4cores & 4threads

->But intel brings 4cores & 8threads, but lower clock speed 2.4ghz

Intel's Cache architecture (corei7)--------->socket 1366
L1 cache ->128Kbps to 256kbps
L2 cache ->512Kbps to 1MB
L3 cache ->6MB to 8MB

AMD cache architecture (phenom FX) -----> AM2 socket with full 3000HT
L1 cache ->512Kbps
L2 cache ->2MB
L3 cache ->6MB to 8MB


These are the specification listed for the upcoming Processor .

AMD will launch the phenom FX with in 2009/feb


By this architecture and clock speed we can assume !!!!

^^ What we can assume. expectation is 4-7% increase in performance over 65nm Phenom's.

Testing was done by AMD only and sample's are not yet given to press for testing.

AMD shouted like anything during Athlon XP and Athlon64 days that speed is not important, architecture is and performance/watt is. I don't care if they launch 4GHz or 4.4GHz processor. I will not put a thought on it until I see the reviews from leading tech benchmarkers. Till then, for me, it's "watch the proceedings".

desiibond said:

Lot of members in this forum have respect for AMD and many are waiting for AMD to hit back with a product that would give them performance crown. There was no flame wars in this area and don't start one.

Click to expand...

but intel still rules and is the best

yes. Intel is ruling the market now. Best example is AMD's market share down from 23% to 17% in one quarter.

It is ATI that is actually keeping AMD alive right now. Big profits are coming from 4xxx series.

O yes , then Y did the INTEL want to use the L3 cache, that is already used by AMD X4 phenom????

ultimategpu said:

O yes , then Y did the INTEL want to use the L3 cache, that is already used by AMD X4 phenom????

Click to expand...

bhai sab ki apni apni marzi

ultimategpu said:

O yes , then Y did the INTEL want to use the L3 cache, that is already used by AMD X4 phenom????

Click to expand...

I can't say anything if you make such nonsense arguments.

And L3 cache was introduced by Intel. You don't believe it??

*www.excaliberpc.com/553583/intel-pentium-extreme-edition-3.46ghz.html

That is one P4 Northwood core processor.

Northwood core was introduced in January 2002.

And since you cannot understand how Microprocessors work,

Intel stopped L3 cache and Hyperthreading concept because the core then was not able to fully utilize these two.

Now, Nehalem has superb core, wider bus, lot of bandwidth, they had a chance to try L3 cache and Hyperthreading and it worked wonders. Hyperthreading is giving 30% increase in performance in 3d applications.

And oh, btw, If you want to support AMD, you should mention these

1) Performance/watt
2) x86-64
3) On-die memory controller
4) on-die GPU

First three are thing of past anyways as they are incorporated by many manufacturer and have to wait and watch how Fusion is going to transform the market.

desiibond said:

I can't say anything if you make such nonsense arguments.

And L3 cache was introduced by Intel. You don't believe it??

*www.excaliberpc.com/553583/intel-pentium-extreme-edition-3.46ghz.html

That is one P4 Northwood core processor.

Northwood core was introduced in January 2002.

And since you cannot understand how Microprocessors work,

Intel stopped L3 cache and Hyperthreading concept because the core then was not able to fully utilize these two.

Now, Nehalem has superb core, wider bus, lot of bandwidth, they had a chance to try L3 cache and Hyperthreading and it worked wonders. Hyperthreading is giving 30% increase in performance in 3d applications.

And oh, btw, If you want to support AMD, you should mention these

1) Performance/watt
2) x86-64
3) On-die memory controller
4) on-die GPU

First three are thing of past anyways as they are incorporated by many manufacturer and have to wait and watch how Fusion is going to transform the market.

Click to expand...

So , what the L3 cache is used in the Corei7 ,,, ha ha ha

ultimategpu said:

[...]>it has the increased FSB than core2quad[...]

Click to expand...

its not FSB anymore its QTPI

ultimategpu said:

[...]

->Featured with 512MB L1 cache , 2MB L2 cache and 6MB L3 cache[...]

Click to expand...

ultimategpu said:

[...]
Intel's Cache architecture (corei7)--------->socket 1366
L1 cache ->128Kbps to 256kbps
L2 cache ->512Kbps to 1MB
L3 cache ->6MB to 8MB

AMD cache architecture (phenom FX) -----> AM2 socket with full 3000HT
L1 cache ->512Kbps
L2 cache ->2MB
L3 cache ->6MB to 8MB

[...]

Click to expand...

lol

ultimategpu said:

So , what the L3 cache is used in the Corei7 ,,, ha ha ha

Click to expand...

dunno what's there to laugh

a stupid thread with outdated info IMO

_

^^+1

Phenom's 4GHz in 1.168VCore feat is what puts me to awe

comp@ddict said:

Phenom's 4GHz in 1.168VCore feat is what puts me to awe

Click to expand...

ANd THATS the feat which put me in serious doubt if Deneb really IS that good. It appears too good to be true. To displace a highly feature rich and enery efficient and high performing architecture like Nehalem, AMD's current Phenom architecture doesn't seem enough in its 65nm state. I can't help wondering how a core shrink can boost its performance to such high levels. But then again, Phenom was once quoted as being "theoritically" a great architecture, but it "practically" failed for some reason. Could this core shrink be the one thing which can make phenom as good as it should be, theoritically ?

MetalheadGautham said:

ANd THATS the feat which put me in serious doubt if Deneb really IS that good. It appears too good to be true. To displace a highly feature rich and enery efficient and high performing architecture like Nehalem, AMD's current Phenom architecture doesn't seem enough in its 65nm state. I can't help wondering how a core shrink can boost its performance to such high levels. But then again, Phenom was once quoted as being "theoritically" a great architecture, but it "practically" failed for some reason. Could this core shrink be the one thing which can make phenom as good as it should be, theoritically ?

Click to expand...

Phenom was failure due to the TLB error (models like 9500,9600) ,, so the TLB error was cleared with the models like 9550 , 9650 , 9750 ,9850BE ,9950
but still phenom X4 cannot competite with the core2quad , cause of lower cache memory in phenom ,No overclocking capabilities in phenom X4(65nm so hot)

So , finally DENEB was to be launched with higher clock speed and higher Cache memory to strike the INTELS "nehalem & Bloomfield"

DENEB has 45nm so FX-80 can be overclocked to 6ghz to 6.5ghz & FX-84 can be overclocked to 7ghz (thats really Phenom ), but it uses more power than INTEL corei7

lets see in 2009/feb

yup. only feb/2009 will tell the TRUE story.

ultimategpu said:

So , what the L3 cache is used in the Corei7 ,,, ha ha ha

Click to expand...

Duh! That is one hel of an argument.

Theres no point in discussing this as desiibond highlighted. The comparision that has been put up is highly biased.

6-7GHz???
Where, can u post links dude?

desiibond said:

I can't say anything if you make such nonsense arguments.

And L3 cache was introduced by Intel. You don't believe it??

*www.excaliberpc.com/553583/intel-pentium-extreme-edition-3.46ghz.html

That is one P4 Northwood core processor.

Northwood core was introduced in January 2002.

And since you cannot understand how Microprocessors work,

Intel stopped L3 cache and Hyperthreading concept because the core then was not able to fully utilize these two.

Now, Nehalem has superb core, wider bus, lot of bandwidth, they had a chance to try L3 cache and Hyperthreading and it worked wonders. Hyperthreading is giving 30% increase in performance in 3d applications.

And oh, btw, If you want to support AMD, you should mention these

1) Performance/watt
2) x86-64
3) On-die memory controller
4) on-die GPU

First three are thing of past anyways as they are incorporated by many manufacturer and have to wait and watch how Fusion is going to transform the market.

Click to expand...

Dude you broke your promise and replied to... him!!

@ultimategpu A.k.A DAAMIT boy

AMD rules, ruleds and will be rullings !!!1111!!

@comp

Thats not sustained frequency. But yes P4s haf gone to almost 7GHz (by some Italian overclocking team, I guess). Its not hard to believe considering how deep the P4 pipeline is.

KPower Mania said:

Dude you broke your promise and replied to... him!!

@ultimategpu A.k.A DAAMIT boy

AMD rules, ruleds and will be rullings !!!1111!!

Click to expand...

That was posted before I got irritated.

6-7 GHZ ?
Dude, what have you been smoking lately ?

Those speeds can only be dreamed of. Also its not easy to clock so much with the poor IMC.

I dont think AMD will launch 4G chips. If they do, good for them but i really doubt. AMD chips have never been known for clocking too high on clock speeds.

ultimategpu said:

INTEL Corei7

The upcoming Processor "INTEL Corei7 [code name - NEHALEM ] hitting the market on 2008 december
->Special Architecture of 8 threads in the corei7 processor
->the processor is featured with the copy of AMD's phenom X4 architecture L3 cache and diminished L2 cache
->the processor speed from the basic of 2.4ghz to 2.9ghz for the extreme corei7 processor
->it has the increased FSB than core2quad
->Special Overclocking performance as based on the 45nm architecture than core2quad q9550
->Advanced memory controller to the copy of AMD's memory Bandwidth architecture

AMD phenom FX

The upcoming "AMD's Phenom FX [code name - DENEB ] will hit the market on march 2009 est.

->AMD's first 45nm architecture based processor
->Featured with 512MB L1 cache , 2MB L2 cache and 6MB L3 cache
->Special feature ----> phenom FX-80 at 4Ghz and the FX-82 at 4.4GHz (STOCK SPEED)
->featuring the same Hyper transport @2200 to 3000
->Ultra fast direct link between the RAM & the GPU
->Supports fast rendering video for the full HDTV 1080i
->AMD phenomFX-80 & FX-82 can be overclocked to 6ghz to 6.5ghz

Information listed here are from the source of the Intel and Amd engineering sample .

INTEL COREi7

*img401.imageshack.us/img401/2489/corei7940benchmarked02zu1.jpg



AMD PHENOM FX


*img293.imageshack.us/img293/4389/phenomcpuzba4.jpg

*img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corei7940benchmarked02zu1.jpg

Click to expand...

Just a humble request dude, get your facts right... by reading your post I came to conclusion that Intel has copied everything from AMD... please, if you like AMD, I dont have a problem... but get your facts right and dont bash a company if you dont like. Intel pretty much kicks AMD in the butt...

darklord said:

6-7 GHZ ?
Dude, what have you been smoking lately ?

Those speeds can only be dreamed of. Also its not easy to clock so much with the poor IMC.

I dont think AMD will launch 4G chips. If they do, good for them but i really doubt. AMD chips have never been known for clocking too high on clock speeds.

Click to expand...

Its 45nm , so then u can overclock without any problem ,,, dude check this its not phenom , its phenom FX (its meant for overclocking only )

KPower Mania said:

Just a humble request dude, get your facts right... by reading your post I came to conclusion that Intel has copied everything from AMD... please, if you like AMD, I dont have a problem... but get your facts right and dont bash a company if you dont like. Intel pretty much kicks AMD in the butt...

Click to expand...

i agree with u ,, now INTEL is ruling i know , but we can see in 2009 ,,

AMD 2002 - 2005 ,, they were the king of gaming rigs

INTEL 2007- 2008 , !!!!


2009 ----> INTEL or AMD

Still one more thing dude ,, this phenom FX-80 & FX-84 ,, processor price around $200 to $300

/////Value is more than price ////

^^Temme, how can u predict future ?

^^^^ cuz he's a Jotish who has a AMD procy running instead of a brain.

^^lol

hahaha. here's a little bit of peek into the past:

AMD's 'Barcelona' Chips Claim Performance Advantages

As per AMD, Although AMD has targeted Barcelona -- officially known as the Opteron x3xx series -- at enterprise servers and workstations, the company released performance benchmarks showing that the new architecture substantially outperforms Intel's Xeon series on selected benchmarks, hinting that AMD's upcoming "Phenom" consumer processor may perform comparably. AMD began shipping the new Opterons a month ago, and the Phenom will ship in December, AMD said.

That was exactly a year ago. neither did the AMD chips beat Intel in server market nor did they match Intel in Desktop market.

So, enough of this talk over thing that nobody knows when is going to be released.

And Oh, BTW, here is a proof that the pictures posted in the root post of this thread stating 4GHz at 1.18 is not at all real.

*www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?id=20790&catid=2.
*xtreview.com/addcomment-id-5816-view-AMD-Deneb-45nm-at-3.5-GHz.html
*www.nordichardware.com/news,8020.html


And

If you compare this "*www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=190762." with this "*www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?id=20790&catid=2."

Time taken for Nehalem running at 2.4GHz to do superPi calculation (1M decimals): 17.219 seconds

Time taken for Deneb running at 3.44GHz to do superPi calculation (1M decimals): 20.515 seconds

Nehalem core voltage at 0.975V
Deneb core voltage at 1.568V (After overclocking)

List of Deneb processors that are going to be released in the first phase:

Phenom X4 20550

Runs at 3.0GHz
4×512 KiB L2 and 6MB L3 cache
125W

Phenom X4 20350

Runs at 2.8GHz


All those news about 4GHz phenom at 1.1V, OC'able to 6GHz and 7GHz is absolute thrash.

^^No what ultimategpu says is correct... AMD is gonna beat Intel... dude we dunno anything, he is teh tech king... and so is AMD .

MODS CLOSE THIS ULTRA-NOOBISH THREAD.

and if you are thinking about Phenom FX that is based on Deneb FX core, it won't be out for another 6 months. It is expected to hit the market in mid-2009 and guess what, even before it gets stability in the market, Intel will be out with 32nm Westmere based processors.


Westmere:

Native six-core processors.
A new set of instructions that gives over 3x the encryption and decryption rate of AES processes compared to before.

And who knows it may be the first processor with 1billion transistors on the die.

This is exactly why I am saying that AMD has no chance against Intel till they get Spider/Fusion platform out into the market.

KPower Mania said:

^^No what ultimategpu says is correct... AMD is gonna beat Intel... dude we dunno anything, he is teh tech king... and so is AMD .

MODS CLOSE THIS ULTRA-NOOBISH THREAD.

Click to expand...

ROFLMAO

There's got to be more to life than fighting over 2 brands of microprocessors, don't you think?

^+1... and fighting over 2 companies against a fanboi is even worse .


"But L3 cache is used in i7,,,ha ha ha " ...I mean WTF, give us a break ultimategpu. Go OC ur X9550 to 4Ghz.

Phenom 9550 goes to 2.9ghz max.. with extra cooling but it goes rocker at that speed.. the temp was 53C at that level ...

Thats not sustained frequency. But yes P4s haf gone to almost 7GHz (by some Italian overclocking team, I guess). Its not hard to believe considering how deep the P4 pipeline is.

Click to expand...

p4 gereation Single core celerons have gone to 8 something Ghz from a default of 3. Don't know about the core though.

9550 may be a good overclocker but where does it stand when compared to E8400 and Q9300?

You know how good E8400 in overclocking

compare the prices ,

then intel the base processors even touch 4ghz like 7200, so its fine.. and i agree to 8400 fact.. but what i come up with 9550 with all benchmarking, it rocks like hell and beats out many proccys from intel..

i recently had a article on black edition proccessors from AMD and a guy overclocked the 9750 or something like that to 4.3ghz.. not very sure where...

Ya no doubt it was a kind of biased review

BTW Intel is still leading & time gonna tell the fate of AMD *files.myopera.com/Tamil/Smilies/Bang.gif

What ever you guyz say but unless Intel have nVidia they will be left behind *files.myopera.com/Tamil/Smilies/Danger.gif

@desiibond why compare a 65nm procy with 45nm when oc'ing.that guy may shout foul.
even when u compare the oc'ing potentials of 9950 to Q6600 (both 65nms),the 9950 stands no chance in front of thye Q6600.

q6600 .. not qx6700.. q6600 might not be a good choice with 9950 ?

why do u say that Q6600 might not be good with 9950?u can easily oc a q6600 to 3.6-3.8GHz on air.the 9950 wont even do 3.5GHz stably on air.and the Q6600 @ 3.8GHz wud beat the 9950 into dark space.

r u sure about that.. ?? coz i am not very sure.. i aint a AMD fanny, but i like the way it does perform.. if i leave OC behind.. at stock q6600 ??

at stock i wont be able to compare the Q6600 with a stock 9950, but i can tell u 1 thing,the q6600 is a lot better than 9850 BE even at stock.the 9850 BE is a piece of sh!t.bought a 9850BE + MSI K9A2-GM + HD 4870 a few weeks back.the 9850 BE managed to pi$$ me off so bad that i sold it off a week later.

lolzzz !!! i can see a pi$$ed of guy.. it happens with AMD , i know..

^^Why you fighting all over this ? Time will tell who is better or not .

hellgate said:

why do u say that Q6600 might not be good with 9950?u can easily oc a q6600 to 3.6-3.8GHz on air.the 9950 wont even do 3.5GHz stably on air.and the Q6600 @ 3.8GHz wud beat the 9950 into dark space.

Click to expand...

If u overclock Q6600 to 3.8 man u should have water cooled !!!

hellgate said:

at stock i wont be able to compare the Q6600 with a stock 9950, but i can tell u 1 thing,the q6600 is a lot better than 9850 BE even at stock.the 9850 BE is a piece of sh!t.bought a 9850BE + MSI K9A2-GM + HD 4870 a few weeks back.the 9850 BE managed to pi$$ me off so bad that i sold it off a week later.

Click to expand...

see 9850 B.E was the first TLB error proc comes with the 9500 , 9600 ---> 9550 & 9950 are the late proc TLB error cleared , dont buy any phenom BLACK EDITION especially the X4 ,,

ultimategpu said:

If u overclock Q6600 to 3.8 man u should have water cooled !!!

Click to expand...

plz get ur facts correct 1st.a good 3rd part air cooling sol wud do u gud.i used to run my Q6600 oc'd to 3.8GHz on air 24/7

see 9850 B.E was the first TLB error proc comes with the 9500 , 9600 ---> 9550 & 9950 are the late proc TLB error cleared , dont buy any phenom BLACK EDITION especially the X4 ,,

Click to expand...

FYI the 9850 BE that i had didnt hav the TLB bug.it was the latest.
i've understood that its no use replying to u.u just dont accept things as they r.

ultimategpu said:

If u overclock Q6600 to 3.8 man u should have water cooled !!!




see 9850 B.E was the first TLB error proc comes with the 9500 , 9600 ---> 9550 & 9950 are the late proc TLB error cleared , dont buy any phenom BLACK EDITION especially the X4 ,,

Click to expand...

Where did u try it ?

hellgate said:

plz get ur facts correct 1st.a good 3rd part air cooling sol wud do u gud.i used to run my Q6600 oc'd to 3.8GHz on air 24/7




FYI the 9850 BE that i had didnt hav the TLB bug.it was the latest.
i've understood that its no use replying to u.u just dont accept things as they r.

Click to expand...

see i am having Both E8500 and AMD phenom 9550 ,, i can't that AMD is waste cause in other case than gaming AMD X4 9550 does better than E8500 , E8500 is great games futher multitasking its slower than AMD X4 9550

I am saying the fact that AMD is still giving VALUE FOR MONEY
getting core2extreme , we can make a whole gaming RIGS


@hellgate

1. See when u r telling about your 9850 BE "error" means u should be careful with your words ,,it gives problem to you only.so you should not tell the AMD is waste
2. i still prefer AMD X4 9550 ,, for the good computing play & multi task .
3. i too prefer INTEL too E 8500 for better gaming
4. i never tell any proc is bad , if at all its giving me error means i ll tell my proc only bad not the AMD proc

sorry 9850 B.E is not TLB error , i thought it was 9800 sorry

PErsonally and in terms of performance, betwn Q6600 and X4 9850BE, Q6600 is the KING

^^Dude, leave it.

AMD is the best. We come to THE conclusion that ultimategpu dreamt of. So, the purpose of the thread is finished!! Time to close it.

ultimategpu said:

see i am having Both E8500 and AMD phenom 9550 ,, i can't that AMD is waste cause in other case than gaming AMD X4 9550 does better than E8500 , E8500 is great games futher multitasking its slower than AMD X4 9550

I am saying the fact that AMD is still giving VALUE FOR MONEY
getting core2extreme , we can make a whole gaming RIGS


@hellgate

1. See when u r telling about your 9850 BE "error" means u should be careful with your words ,,it gives problem to you only.so you should not tell the AMD is waste
2. i still prefer AMD X4 9550 ,, for the good computing play & multi task .
3. i too prefer INTEL too E 8500 for better gaming
4. i never tell any proc is bad , if at all its giving me error means i ll tell my proc only bad not the AMD proc

sorry 9850 B.E is not TLB error , i thought it was 9800 sorry

Click to expand...

ROFL .... ok, ok. People who buy Core 2 Extreme are not kids like you and me. They are either enthusiasts or heavy multi-taskers who need extreme power (Hence, the name 'Extreme'). QX9770 has the power which AMD CPU's cant even dream of.... atleast at this stage with the current product line . And about making 'a whole gaming RIGS'.... Enthusiasts who buy it, dont just play games on it.

^^ Are you nuts???

Extreme cannot compete even with Athlon X2. Athlon is the king. Others are nothing.

AMD > Mercury > Intex > Tech-com > Zebronics > Meizu > Intel

(should be read as AMD better than Mercury. Mercury better than Intex......)

Someone should be happy now!!!

I would request the thread to be closed. It's useless and timewaste in going on with this discussion when one architecture is not available in the market yet and other is not even ready for manufacturing yet.

Are you guys sure about the Deneb stuff? AFAIK, the engineering samples are not out yet.. So we cant say whether they can be OCed upto 7GHz or if they're anywhere close to i7.

I have seen INTEL perform.. and i must say its pretty cool and very fast... ! whereas AMD had and has something i love about it.. i dunno why but i went to the dealer to buy a INTEL quad, but instead walked out with AMD Quad.. sometimes its personal preference.. but anyday INTEL can beat AMD hands on.. it might change with time, but who know.. one thing is sure that AMD is beating crap out of NVIDIA lol

^^Dude, why dont you lock this thread. If you don't, the same thing will keep happening over and oner. Now, ultimategpu will come and say "but AMDs are quads core,,, ha ha ha ". So it's better you stop this non-sense over here...