Businesses Consider Skipping Vista

The bad news just keeps on coming for Windows Vista . First there was the "Vista-Capable" class action lawsuit. Then IT advisory firm Gartner claimed Windows may be collapsing under its own weight.

Now Business Week is reporting that a number of large businesses are considering closing the door to Vista, opting instead to stick with XP until the release of Windows 7, due sometime before 2012.

General Motors is the latest large company to publicly consider skipping Vista, citing hardware demands and software vendors who still haven't guaranteed complete compatibility with the OS. Alaska Airlines and Transco Railway Products are two other companies likely to bypass Vista, according to Business Week.

Vista is doing better in the consumer market, of course, but that's largely because the OS is bundled with the vast majority of computers sold in retail outlets.

According to Business Week, 65% of Windows copies sold in the third quarter of last year were Vista, 35% were XP. Microsoft wanted the Vista number to be closer to 80%, but it doesn't look like that will be happening anytime soon.

The success of ASUS's EEE PC has kick-started a whole new market for ultra-portable laptops which don't have the hardware muscle to run Vista. That's forced Microsoft to begrudgingly extend the life of Windows XP.

They will continue to sell OEM XP licenses to low-powered laptop manufacturers through 2010, though Redmond is being very specific about limiting the hardware they'll allow XP to be installed on.

Clearly, if a machine will run Vista, Microsoft wants that machine to be sold with Vista. The strange thing is, the company already has a version of Vista designed to run on stripped down PCs. It's called Vista Starter Edition, and it's sold in developing countries at a reduced price to combat piracy.

It's high time Microsoft unleashed the cheaper version of Vista here at home to combat its lackluster numbers. With a few modifications, Vista Starter Edition would run well on older business machines, and play nice with under-powered ultra-portable laptops.

Who knows, if people get used to Vista on their laptop and business PC's, they might even be more likely to fork over the cash for a beefier version of Vista on their home machines.

Source

I dont like vista and its incompatibility with various software I use... forget business firms, most people I know swear on XP any day. I might consider vista after a sp2, and maybe even feb 09 when xp support officially ends, but if possible, I might just extend my days with XP till windows 7 pops out.

^^^ Which application of yours is not working as of May 19 2008?

gx_saurav said:
^^^ Which application of yours is not working as of May 19 2008?

Microsoft's own Motocross Madness

even iam sticking with xp till windows 7,...active sync don't work,yes you got windows media device ....but active sync is the best..and still there is some quicktime issues going on ...xp for me now..

Microsoft's own Motocross Madness

You mean that 10 years old Game???

Hey, does Pidgin 2.24 Works in Readhat Linux 1998????

active sync don't work

It is now called Windows Mobile Device Center, did u tried using it?

and still there is some quicktime issues going on

such as??? Plz state your issue before bashing vista, also is it MS' fault that a 3rd party application isn't working?

Oh, sorry for not responding to this thread.

First, I'm a windows user. Windows Vista has "improved" its security to an extent that it performs like the spiritual successor of ZoneAlarm (too many alerts for anything) and overly-high memory consumption. Perhaps it has been taking notes from Norton?

Second, I'm a programmer. Vista has 7125 modified and new API functions, and over 90% of them are not useful to me. Maybe to someone else, but not me. I dont want to deal with stuff I dont require.

Third, I'm a gamer. Several games are buggy in Vista, and motocross madness, yes the 10 year old game, hasnt had a better successor.

Fourth, I'm not bashing vista and saying that vista is not ready for me. I'm saying that I'm not ready for vista(yet?)

Fifth, It is not microsoft's fault that a 3rd party application isnt working, but you have to accept that windows is a PLATFORM for running 3rd party applications. I'm again not bashing vista, but I just say that Vista seems to have a very low backward compatibility with older software made for windows xp and below.

Sixth, Vista is great for software and games written to be run on vista, so I would go for vista if I want to play Halo 3 or whatever, But considering the low level of backward compatibility, I wouldnt if I want to play motocross madness.

And seventh and final, please dont point me to a vista myths site, like
*articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-6156413.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=tr
because I've already read it, and this is my personal opinion about vista after using it.

@dheeraj

From a programmer's point of View , Vista is actually almost heaven . The new API makes doing things soo much easier .

Have a look at the latest Speech Synthesis API , you just gotta call the speak function to synthesize voice , nothing more .

Plus it supports doing Low-Level tasks easily via high-level languages such as C# and all other .NET 3.0 compatible languages .

gx_saurav said:
You mean that 10 years old Game???

Hey, does Pidgin 2.24 Works in Readhat Linux 1998????

redhat linux gives free update
and hence it runs
M$ does not
now what the fu*k should I do with this damn game I bought ?
will M$ buy it back ?

MetalheadGautham said:
now what the fu*k should I do with this damn game I bought ?

do the same what you did with the clothes you bought when you were 10

MetalheadGautham said:
redhat linux gives free update

Really??? Let me know if U can run Pidgin "indeed" on red hat 1998.

M$ does not
now what the fu*k should I do with this damn game I bought ?
will M$ buy it back ?

MS gave u free updates for the lifetime of the OS & game. They are not developing the OS & software in there free time like students & other part time programmer do for 80% of Linux. They deserve to be paid......

Do tell me, if u r able to run amarok, vlc etc on Red hat 1998....

do the same what you did with the clothes you bought when you were 10

U explained it better then I could

Dude, learn to pay for developers for they deserve. Linux people want everything for free, forever....Go make your own hardware then

Well IMHO, Microsoft itself has brought Vista down by announcing 5 different editions at the time of release.The reason Windows XP became a hit is primarily when it got released only Home and Pro Editions were available.Gradually when requirement Media Center and PE Editions were introduced.

Also Vista Capable and Vista Premium hurt Microsoft's Advertising Strategy too which in turn reduced sales.

gx_saurav said:
Really??? Let me know if U can run Pidgin "indeed" on red hat 1998.

MS gave u free updates for the lifetime of the OS & game. They are not developing the OS & software in there free time like students & other part time programmer do for 80% of Linux. They deserve to be paid......

Do tell me, if u r able to run amarok, vlc etc on Red hat 1998....

U explained it better then I could

Dude, learn to pay for developers for they deserve. Linux people want everything for free, forever....Go make your own hardware then

No offense meant, but you know nothing about Linux/Unix culture. Linux is supposed to be free but not in terms of price, but it is supposed to be modifiable as and when needed. And RedHat has built a successful business model around this for a long time.

Now, why are you repeating RedHat 1998 for the nth time? What we (and perhaps you also) know is that nobody is using that old OS. People have migrated to Fedora and Ubuntu and now they are running VLC/Pidgin or whatever. But your example was not about backward compatibility, it was like forward compatibility. Now I will ask one question: Will aero run on Windows 98?

Whether you agree or not, one thing you have to realize for your own good. Consumer is the king and consumer has their choices now. They will not tolerate something which costs a lot and still does not satisfy their use. Most of the people who use Linux use it willingly and even if you say 'Vista is Great' 100 times, that does not change the reality. When there was no choices, people had to use Windows, now they have choices, so its a free market now. And I guess, 'free market' is a term Steve Balmer fears like hell.

another pain in the neck for MS

The only reason of growing sales is it comes bundled with most Machine and Nearly ALL Notebooks.
If users like Vista or not, they are FORCED to use with Vista. but Vista is not that bad, just needs to be faster. Maybe that happens with Sp2, initially Xp was also rejected by people due to High ram requirement, that time 128mb was lot but look now. people swear for XP.
no strange it took 3 service packs for MS to fix Xp

History repeats itself, now a Service pack 2 is need for vista. then vista would be little faster.

I am being optimistic

no service pack can fix Vi$ta's huge resource requirements and the vulnerabilities it have(pss.. DRM?)

In my opinion Resources is not headache for most Genuine Vista Users. See the RAM, HDD Prices..........What people want is easy to use, and not something for which they have to use terminal and google for commands. I am not trying to bash Linux here but thats just my opinion for Desktop Level OS

^well,you can live without terminal

you need to see latest distros like opensuse.
and using terminal isnt a geeky thing imo.it is not like a M$-DOS CLI which is very confusing

.In a bash shell,everything auto-completes!remember bashcompletion is available.
Linux Rocks man!

Well,Vista is supposed to be a past now.media are waiting for windows 7?

techtronic said:
Well IMHO, Microsoft itself has brought Vista down by announcing 5 different editions at the time of release.The reason Windows XP became a hit is primarily when it got released only Home and Pro Editions were available.Gradually when requirement Media Center and PE Editions were introduced.

Wasn't it E.C. which said to MS to release different low cost versions for different markets. A version without WMP, A version without security, & it is still the fault of MS?

Now, why are you repeating RedHat 1998 for the nth time? What we (and perhaps you also) know is that nobody is using that old OS. People have migrated to Fedora and Ubuntu and now they are running VLC/Pidgin or whatever. But your example was not about backward compatibility, it was like forward compatibility. Now I will ask one question: Will aero run on Windows 98?

Now, why is he repeating Motocross Madness for the nth time? What we (and perhaps you also) know is that nobody is using that old game. People have migrated to MotoGP etc & now they are running crysis or whatever.

Just read what manan wrote, he explained it better then I could.

Consumer is the king and consumer has their choices now. They will not tolerate something which costs a lot and still does not satisfy their use.

Where is Microsoft restricting any of my choice? Windows is a platform, for which developers make application with the UI/Functionality they want. I use it. simple.

Most of the people who use Linux use it willingly and even if you say 'Vista is Great' 100 times, that does not change the reality.

Most of the people who use Windows cos they are comfortable & they know it will work the best with there hardware & work. Even if you say 'Linux is Great' 100 times, that does not change the reality.

Seriously, geeks use Linux, but how many geeks in overall geek percentage Use Linux????

nitially Xp was also rejected by people due to High ram requirement, that time 128mb was lot but look now. people swear for XP.
no strange it took 3 service packs for MS to fix Xp

I agree, When there is a flaw or drawback in Linux people patiently wait for an update or fix, but why not in case of MS?

no service pack can fix Vi$ta's huge resource requirements and the vulnerabilities it have

I hope u remember I was running Vista on a 4 years old computer till March 1

Why this is Discussion is going towards LInux Vs Windows?

i never named Linux in any of my post.

gx_saurav said:
I agree, When there is a flaw or drawback in Linux people patiently wait for an update or fix, but why not in case of MS?

Now this is Like "For covering own sins, you Highlight others sins" instead of Try to fix it up. this is certainly not the Gentleman way.

~PEACE~

Ps: Please don't turn this thread in a Flame war & before it gets locked

so continue discussion, but please don't drag Linux Here unnecessarily

Sorry for a off-topic post

gx_saurav said:
Wasn't it E.C. which said to MS to release different low cost versions for different markets. A version without WMP, A version without security, & it is still the fault of MS?

The issue is not about versions indicated by E.U. Its about Home, Business, HP etc. etc.

gx_saurav said:
Now, why is he repeating Motocross Madness for the nth time? What we (and perhaps you also) know is that nobody is using that old game. People have migrated to MotoGP etc & now they are running crysis or whatever.

Agree. Can't expect a 10 year old game to run on the latest OS.

BTW motocross madness and motogp are completely two different genres!

gx_saurav said:
Just read what manan wrote, he explained it better then I could.

Classic example by iMav!

gx_saurav said:
Most of the people who use Windows cos they are comfortable & they know it will work the best with there hardware & work.

Agree again. People haf become too dependent on Windows.

gx_saurav said:
Even if you say 'Linux is Great' 100 times, that does not change the reality.

Everyone has a different perspective

gx_saurav said:
Seriously, geeks use Linux,

Err.. plz do not generalize things. I use Linux, so am I a geek? Hey but I use windows too... so now.. what am I? An idiot geek?! :))

gx_saurav said:
...but how many geeks in overall geek percentage Use Linux????

Made no sense to me. Care to explain what you've written.

gx_saurav said:
When there is a flaw or drawback in Linux people patiently wait for an update or fix, but why not in case of MS?

Updates are almost instant in case of OSS.

gx_saurav said:
I hope u remember I was running Vista on a 4 years old computer till March 1

Frankly, I find Vista to be the most resource hungry OS ever. It crawls on an AMD Turion 64x2 1.8G, 2GB RAM, nVidia 7050 UMA. It also crawls on Pentium Dual Core 2160, 2GB DDR2 667, nVidia 7600GS (this is SP1).

Vista needs more time to mature...

But I do not know what is OSS/Linux/Pidgin/Red Hat doing in this thread!!!!

gx_saurav said:
Seriously, geeks use Linux, but how many geeks in overall geek percentage Use Linux????

^^GX, you are a genuine MS MVP man, you copied my lines and just inserted one or two words. Salutes!!!

Now, if you can show some data...

iMav said:
do the same what you did with the clothes you bought when you were 10

gx_saurav said:
Really??? Let me know if U can run Pidgin "indeed" on red hat 1998.

MS gave u free updates for the lifetime of the OS & game. They are not developing the OS & software in there free time like students & other part time programmer do for 80% of Linux. They deserve to be paid......

Do tell me, if u r able to run amarok, vlc etc on Red hat 1998....

U explained it better then I could

Dude, learn to pay for developers for they deserve. Linux people want everything for free, forever....Go make your own hardware then

ReHat 1998 is old...
but Ubuntu Hardy is NOT.

and I can run OpenOffice 0.1 beta on ubuntu hardy, and THATS old.
I run wget designed in 1994 in ubuntu hardy
etc etc

I am talking about a program that Windows Vista can't run, and you are talking about an old OS.

Did I ever complain that Visual Studio 2008 does not run on Windows 98 ?

I was ripped off by those b@stards from redmond when they promised in their advertisements that this game will run in all versions of windows from Windows 95. MS promised that any version of windows can do everything a previous version could. But now that promise is not kept.

L

^ can you sue M$ for this???

legolas said:
^ can you sue M$ for this???

We don't have to sue them. They will soon see their own grave.

legolas said:
^ can you sue M$ for this???

unfortunately, no.
I was a n00b at the time of procuring motocross madness.

but the point is this: MS does not maintain 100% compatibility for products designed for previous versions of their OS, which is not a hard thing to do concidering all good operating systems have this feature.

who cares if its 10 years old ? It was a software made by them, and its their responsibility to maintain compatibility for previous products. And then take a look at MS Office. Its slowly breaking away compatibility for older formats of their office suite generated files. Nothing here is justified.

Hmm... You are right. To hell with Microsoft supporting new technology, we should still stick to Windows 98.

Gautam, I have tried running Open Office betas in Latest Linux OS. Please go ahead & try it. If it runs without installing 100 of old version of runtimes, then let me know & post a screen shot here.

gx_saurav said:
Hmm... You are right. To hell with Microsoft supporting new technology, we should still stick to Windows 98.

Gautam, I have tried running Open Office betas in Latest Linux OS. Please go ahead & try it. If it runs without installing 100 of old version of runtimes, then let me know & post a screen shot here.

There is nothing wrong with allowing users to atleast download a windows 98 compatibility layer. You can do it in linux, and there is no reason why it can't be facilitated by microsoft. Just a bunch of dlls and libraries ripped off and packaged together and hacked up from the Windows 98 CD. Thats all MS needs to do to enable running older software.

Hell, they could have made a patch for the game and offered it in their website and instructed users to download it and install it to enable running Motocross Madness in Windows XP/Vista.

Getting something new does not mean ditching the old.

MetalheadGautham said:
but the point is this: MS does not maintain 100% compatibility for products designed for previous versions of their OS, which is not a hard thing to do concidering all good operating systems have this feature.

No.

MetalheadGautham said:
who cares if its 10 years old ? It was a software made by them, and its their responsibility to maintain compatibility for previous products. And then take a look at MS Office. Its slowly breaking away compatibility for older formats of their office suite generated files. Nothing here is justified.

No. It is not their responsibility. Attempting to make sure backward compatibility is highly risky, doing so is highly detrimental to new developments, because you are restricting yourself to limitations posed by the previous editions of softwares.

VS 2008 not working in 98, dude if you wanna make sh!t comments, trust me I can go lower than you. Keep the discussion rational

MetalheadGautham said:
There is nothing wrong with allowing users to atleast download a windows 98 compatibility layer.

Right click on the exe -> compatibility tab- > Run in Windows 98 compatibility mode.

Just a bunch of dlls and libraries ripped off and packaged together and hacked up from the Windows 98 CD. Thats all MS needs to do to enable running older software.

Motocross madness was never made for the WDDM graphics driver layer of Windows Vista. It needs DirectX 5 emulation which is not possible using DirectX 10 as it is completely written from scratch.

Hell, they could have made a patch for the game and offered it in their website and instructed users to download it and install it to enable running Motocross Madness in Windows XP/Vista.

They do not support age old application as no one uses it. Sorry.

gx_saurav said:
Right click on the exe -> compatibility tab- > Run in Windows 98 compatibility mode.

does not work for this game.

gx_saurav said:
Motocross madness was never made for the WDDM graphics driver layer of Windows Vista. It needs DirectX 5 emulation which is not possible using DirectX 10 as it is completely written from scratch.

and thats not microsoft's fault ?

gx_saurav said:
They do not support age old application as no one uses it. Sorry.

nobody uses it ? Who am I ? A Martian ?
And I thought MS had the best customer care for their dear customers who paid for a product of theirs...

the response to ur questions in my previous reply

@MetalheadGautham
I think you should let the old game die in Peace, Play crisis is you want

iMav said:
... dude if you wanna make sh!t comments, trust me I can go lower than you.

Yes, we know that MVPs are good at shitting. Thanks for telling us, the less fortunate ones, again.

Now to think of it, somebody said MS has the best customer care. ROFL...

sourav123 said:
Yes, we know that MVPs are good at shitting. Thanks for telling us, the less fortunate ones, again.

1. I am not a MVP, not affiliated with MS in anyway other than a user of their products

2. MS MVPs are not customer care executives, do not dis-respect any1 like that

3. MS certainly has a great Customer service.

iMav said:
the response to ur questions in my previous reply

Games are not like clothes
Games are for EVER.
I still play Doom and Aladdin.

gary4gar said:
@MetalheadGautham
I think you should let the old game die in Peace, Play crisis is you want

My wallet can never rest in peace if MS cheated it like that

sourav123 said:
Now to think of it, somebody said MS has the best customer care. ROFL...

I already mentioned that

MetalheadGautham said:
Games are not like clothes
Games are for EVER.
I still play Doom and Aladdin.

if that is the case install 98 in Microsoft Virtual PC, free from MS and play it

MS has the best solution for you too

MetalheadGautham said:
My wallet can never rest in peace if MS cheated it like that

I don't think you are cheated, install Windows 98 in Microsoft Virtual PC (whcih is free) and play all you like. Microsoft VPC has other benefits too, want me to list them?

hey boys!M$ must be a sure flop less than a decade with their current series of operating systems.we all know vi$ta is the biggest flop in current time.
well,their web presence is via nobody-else-winboys use m$n en all,what they know is to "Embrace, extend and extinguish" philosophy.

M$ is like a monarch.they are bribing US gov and all gov esp in 3rd world countries to force their monopoly.esp we know about NASSCOM idiots esp corpnts like infosys en all supporting M$haft for OOXML in India.

Yes ppl.we in our right mind CANNOT support such a monopoly.what if it will take some time to completely shift to Free,Open Source Software like Linux ?that gives freedom,less bugs-faster fix etc.

grow ppl!A humble plea from all FOSS supporters.see,even I upto 1998,thought windows is everything!slowly I understood their monopoly.I still remember the issue of M$ winblow$ bundling Internet exploder to kill then famous netscape browser.
think rationally.dont go with the likes of fanboys(who are too immature) who think M$ and apple are godlings :twisted:

Jai Swatantra Software,Jai Democracy!

You are Welcome

i was wondering where is our inhouse spammer, oh sorry that crown has taken from you by NewsBytes :lol:

i want more links, please give me more links that show MS is bad. please, please.

FYI, uncle drm, Businesses are skipping Vista does not mean they switching to FOSS, so please stay on topic or don't post crap the thread with your useless links

^yeah,I am ontopic,FUDing spammer :lol:

and YES!business's skipping Vi$ta means One majority share goes to Linux along with your own winblows XP,mera PITA boy!

and thats not microsoft's fault ?

No. To provide more performance, efficiency & stability with multi Core CPU, Multi GPU, demanding GPGPU & gaming quality Microsoft had to develop a new graphics engine for Windows known as DirectX 10. Even DirectX 9c isn't fully compatible with DX 10 cos DX 10 is made from scratch to scale from today to the hardware of tomorrow. I am sorry to say but DirectX 5 is so old that supporting it is more costly then developing something new. It doesn't make proper business sense.

Hey, why is the world going towards HD Videos? Soon all TV will be HD only, then what will happen to your 20 years old Onida TV? Do one thing, start cribbing on all networks for going HD cos due to them your 20 years old Onida is is rendered useless & now U will need to buy a new HD Compatible TV.

we know that MVPs are good at shitting.

We all know all Linboys are good at Fudding.

Business are skipping Vista, but they are staying with Windows only

praka123 said:
business's skipping Vi$ta means One majority share goes to Linux along with your own winblows XP,mera PITA boy!

that is the mis-understanding u have

u missed the second para of the first post and also u need to refer the dictionary to understand the meaning of the word skip.

gx_saurav said:
Hey, why is the world going towards HD Videos? Soon all TV will be HD only, then what will happen to your 20 years old Onida TV? Do one thing, start cribbing on all networks for going HD cos due to them your 20 years old Onida is is rendered useless & now U will need to buy a new HD Compatible TV.

don't you understand any point ?

I can play a 100x50 video even on a 100000000p TV.
OS compatibility is different from software compatibility.
Nobody asks for Visual Studio 2008 to be usable on Windows 98.
Its SOFTWARE that needs to be run on an OS.

Using your lines of arguement, let me say this:

1. A future generation 2160p TV will still be able to play 480p content
2. Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2008 can still run Red Hat 1998 apps
3. A 30 year old body builder will still be able to lift 1 pound baby weights
4. OpenOffice 2.4 can still open OpenOffice 1.1 formats

In simple words, backward compatibility is maintained in nearly every feild. But your windows is an exeption. Thats why its not good for guys like me who preserve their products, or for companies who need to handle critical data. Ever wondered what risks a company might undergo if it depends on an OS like Windows, where the doccuments the company created once will not be accessable 10 years later ? Thats worse than even paper, when electronic storage was MADE to combat wearing off of paper.

@praka123: dude, atleast word your sentences properly.

MetalheadGautham said:
don't you understand any point ?

U R not getting my point either, I know backward compatibility is required but to give more features, stability & performance Microsoft had to re-write DirectX 10 from scratch due to which DirectX 5 games do not work.

Now, it could be that you don't want more features, stability & performance & still want to play that 10 years old game, but other people which make majority of Windows users, do want it so backward compatibility was skipped.

One very good example, Can You run a Yamaha R15 on 1920's crude petrol?

hey metal, seems like skipping the posts that solve your problem :lol:

compatibility was an issue initially for Vista, now it's not, Virtualization makes for a solution for those who want 98 specific applications.

Real life example, my company had supplied IOCL a system that works on 98, this was way back around 8 years ago, last week they asked for a upgrade as they were upgrading their systems & our RnD too needed 98, I gave them all Microsoft VPC, no hassles of 98, ease of Vista & XP, still funtionality of 98. Another thing which I must highlight is that Vista's so called high system resource requirement of 1GB which is a standard today but still people want to crib about, makes for a great system when it comes to virtualization.

Nowadays each and every thread is becoming a fight club thread

M$ is slowly dieing.say it "RIP"

nowhere in businesse's I have seen winblows Vi$ta used :lol:

instead I saw networks completely moving to Linux(Redhat/fedora esp),hospitals in my town who deploys Linux,
Institutions where the change is rapid;be it a college or a school or a computer institute- who almost completely moving out of XP to Linux,ppl playing with Ubuntu, made separate hall(smaller) for M$haft certifications :lol:

than what it used to be(esp saying about one famous computer centre in Kochin)
well boys,there are lot of changes happening!.I know this nagging 39year old admin who refuses to believe the changes.I believe few forum members too are the same like.relying on a dead horse(microw-soft)

Atleast in the business arena i see no reason for corporates to upgrade their current system to vista which offers no real upgrade advantage than the present alternates....

Re: M$ is slowly dieing.say it "RIP"

praka123 said:
nowhere in businesse's I have seen winblows Vi$ta used

Really??? Well, tehn from where I see, nowhere in Business I have seen Linux being used. It's either Windows XP or 2000 & some new business using Vista Enterprise.

instead I saw networks completely moving to Linux(Redhat/fedora esp),hospitals in my town who deploys Linux,

hospitals here use Windows XP, 2000, 2003.....no where I have seen Linux being used.

Institutions where the change is rapid;be it a college or a school or a computer institute- who almost completely moving out of XP to Linux,ppl playing with Ubuntu, made separate hall(smaller) for M$haft certifications than what it used to be(esp saying about one famous computer centre in Kochin)

So, since it is being used there, it means according to u, as this is the case everywhere? Strange, I see the exact opposite here.

Atleast in the business arena i see no reason for corporates to upgrade their current system to vista which offers no real upgrade advantage than the present alternates....

Corporates do not upgrade there OS or computer just like that. Usually they need to run 1 or 2 particular applications only whole day & for that there existing system suffice.

well,In kerala,it is times changing for the better(FOSS!).the reason is that even government pushes FOSS!thanks!

yes,I saw Vi$ta in my friend's laptop,used it for sometime and I must say-such a crappy slow OS! :evil:

.anyways he already forgot about vista after he formatted and dual booting sidux and winblows xp. sorry to burst the bubble :lol:

Re: M$ is slowly dieing.say it "RIP"

gx_saurav said:
Really??? Well, tehn from where I see, nowhere in Business I have seen Linux being used. It's either Windows XP or 2000 & some new business using Vista Enterprise.

You are cordially invited to visit my office in Bangalore. All our systems are running Linux/Solaris for ages. By the way, it is not a small startup who cannot afford to pay for Windows. I work in a VLSI/Semiconductor company which ranks in the Fortune 500 and one of the top three in VLSI field.

^^^^ there, using UNIX makes sense

@sourav: is your office using UNIX is indicative of the world? Also VLSI & trnoics applications on UNXI are pretty good, but in no way is indicative of the world

iMav said:
@sourav: is your office using UNIX is indicative of the world? Also VLSI & trnoics applications on UNXI are pretty good, but in no way is indicative of the world

I never said so. I always wanted to say that there are big, big corporations supporting Linux and it is not just a fancy OS used by some nerds as somebody here was trying to portray. Now different industries have different needs and uses. As for VLSI, Linux/UNIX is used because it is highly stable and 95% of all CAD/EDA tools run only on Linux/UNIX.

I guess Stevie Balmer is not much keen on bribing CAD/EDA vendors.

V

Even Wipro which is a ardent loyalist to M$ and push their vista infected Pcs as well as Laptop to consumers is no more using Vista in their various BPO projects..they are the first to switch to Vista in their various projects.. when the employees complained, and subsequently producitivity dropped, after making review, many of their projects now come back to Win xp systems...But it doesn't stop them to dumping unwanted 'Vista' junks to corporates houses particularly,ignorant PSU clients...
So selling Vista is a 'business model' where as using Xp on their own is 'working model' in India now..

iMav said:
hey metal, seems like skipping the posts that solve your problem compatibility was an issue initially for Vista, now it's not, Virtualization makes for a solution for those who want 98 specific applications.

Real life example, my company had supplied IOCL a system that works on 98, this was way back around 8 years ago, last week they asked for a upgrade as they were upgrading their systems & our RnD too needed 98, I gave them all Microsoft VPC, no hassles of 98, ease of Vista & XP, still funtionality of 98. Another thing which I must highlight is that Vista's so called high system resource requirement of 1GB which is a standard today but still people want to crib about, makes for a great system when it comes to virtualization.

if virtualisation is what you call the solution, then there is still one small problem:

I don't get a windows 95, 98 or 2000 licence free with windows vista

so how the hell am I supposed to install it ?

MetalheadGautham said:
if virtualisation is what you call the solution, then there is still one small problem:

I don't get a windows 95, 98 or 2000 licence free with windows vista

so how the hell am I supposed to install it ?

It would have been so good if instead of looking or free software or pirating software, u would have actually purchased software.

Since you bought Motocross madness in 1998, this means U must be having Windows 98 at that time, & it's license. Today if you install Vista then you can run the same Windows 98 & License on a Virtual Machine without any problem.

Sorry but Microsoft can't help u if u r pirating stuff boy.

Go to Microsoft Download Center & you can easily get Virtual PC Image of Windows 98. Run your game in that.

MetalheadGautham said:
if virtualisation is what you call the solution, then there is still one small problem:

I don't get a windows 95, 98 or 2000 licence free with windows vista

so you are trying to tell me that 10 years ago you bought a game to play today :lol:

you on weed or something?

gx_saurav said:
It would have been so good if instead of looking or free software or pirating software, u would have actually purchased software.

Since you bought Motocross madness in 1998, this means U must be having Windows 98 at that time, & it's license. Today if you install Vista then you can run the same Windows 98 & License on a Virtual Machine without any problem.

Sorry but Microsoft can't help u if u r pirating stuff boy.

Go to Microsoft Download Center & you can easily get Virtual PC Image of Windows 98. Run your game in that.

iMav said:
so you are trying to tell me that 10 years ago you bought a game to play today you on weed or something?

I bought the game in 2004.

So? Use the same OS license you used on the OS you had in 2004 and play the game in Microsoft Virtual PC.

Lolz...do u expect him to have a license??? He wants everything free, I doubt he paid for Motocross either

Can you guys wear your old clothes, when you were 10 years old, now?

If you've to improve something then you may have to loose out on some other thing.

iMav said:
So? Use the same OS license you used on the OS you had in 2004 and play the game in Microsoft Virtual PC.

I had windows XP at that time

But I thought(I turned pro only in 2007) I had a virus so it wouldn't run, and forgot all about it. Now me finds it lying around and gets nostalgic.

narangz said:
Can you guys wear your old clothes, when you were 10 years old, now?

If you've to improve something then you may have to loose on some other thing.

Completely wrong comparison. What do clothes have to do with software ?

There is nothing very difficult in adding DirectX old versions' compatibility in DirectX 10. MS just chose not to do so.

Dude DX 10 is completely written from scratch.

If you had XP License, go ahead and use XP in Virtual PC

MetalheadGautham said:
There is nothing very difficult in adding DirectX old versions' compatibility in DirectX 10. MS just chose not to do so.

No, Wrong. Since you do not know what DirectX or Graphics API is, you should first go & read some articles on Wikipedia or even about OpenGL.

DirectX 10 is a completely new graphics API with a completely new graphics driver model which support lots of features such as GPGPU, Virtual GPU etc. These features were not there in old DirectX & thus the compatibility is broken. Only DirectX9L is there in Vista which is able to run content of DirectX 8 or newer in Sandbox enviroment.

Microsoft cannot provide compatibility of DirectX 5 in DirectX 10, it is not possible due to a completely new architecture. Sorry but to provide better features & stability for current generation hardware, MS had to do it. Now cry a river cos your 10 years old game isn't working in Vista.

Hey, u didn't show me screen shots of OpenOffice beta 0.1 running in Ubuntu 8.04.??

gx_saurav said:
No, Wrong. Since you do not know what DirectX or Graphics API is, you should first go & read some articles on Wikipedia or even about OpenGL.

DirectX 10 is a completely new graphics API with a completely new graphics driver model which support lots of features such as GPGPU, Virtual GPU etc. These features were not there in old DirectX & thus the compatibility is broken. Only DirectX9L is there in Vista which is able to run content of DirectX 8 or newer in Sandbox enviroment.

Microsoft cannot provide compatibility of DirectX 5 in DirectX 10, it is not possible due to a completely new architecture. Sorry but to provide better features & stability for current generation hardware, MS had to do it. Now cry a river cos your 10 years old game isn't working in Vista.

Hey, u didn't show me screen shots of OpenOffice beta 0.1 running in Ubuntu 8.04.??

A new API doesn't mean the old one can't exist. You can boot into a different kernel than the current one in Ubuntu if you have installed it.

In simple words, its possible to have multiple versions of directx in the system, and call functions of which ever version is needed by a game.

OpenOffice beta 0.1 ? I forgot the link. Download link please.
I can get you something better instead, for the moment.
Would you like to see Doom on Ubuntu Feisty ?
I am running a game released for X on 1993.

[qquote=MetalheadGautham;840672]You can boot into a different kernel than the current one in Ubuntu if you have installed it.[/quote]

If you have to "reboot" then it takes away the novelty of backward compatibility. In that case you can also "reboot" to Windows XP to run your old game.

In simple words, its possible to have multiple versions of directx in the system, and call functions of which ever version is needed by a game.

no, it is not possible. Direct9c & lower do not support working with WDDM. They have to go through a compatibility layer created by DirectX9L to work with Vista.

OpenOffice beta 0.1 ? I forgot the link. Download link please.

Why should I give it? I hate it. You were the one who said u can run it, it's your responsibility to do it not mine. If you can't do it then why u said u can do it?

I am running a game released for X on 1993.

Yeah, the hardware of today is more powerful due to which ur able to emulate tht OpenGL 1.0 game in OepenGL 2.0. Try running the same game with a 1993 graphics card like Voodoo bansee or S3 Virage

If you have to "reboot" then it takes away the novelty of backward compatibility. In that case you can also "reboot" to Windows XP to run your old game.

the beauty lies in the fact that the alternate kernel is just ~30mb in size. tell me if you can strip windows xp to ~30mb and boot into it to run software incompatible with windows vista.

no, it is not possible. Direct9c & lower do not support working with WDDM. They have to go through a compatibility layer created by DirectX9L to work with Vista.

So a compatibility layer exists ?

Why should I give it? I hate it. You were the one who said u can run it, it's your responsibility to do it not mine. If you can't do it then why u said u can do it?

fine then. I run Doom, which is older and graphics based. So my point is still made.(I can't ever complete last level in nightmare mode, but thats my problem not Linux's problem.)

Yeah, the hardware of today is more powerful due to which ur able to emulate tht OpenGL 1.0 game in OepenGL 2.0. Try running the same game with a 1993 graphics card like Voodoo bansee or S3 Virage

and you are saying motocross madness can't be run on vista ?

why should I use a 1993 gfx card ? I thought the arguement was about operating system incompatibility, not hardware incompatibility ?

MetalheadGautham said:
the beauty lies in the fact that the alternate kernel is just ~30mb in size. tell me if you can strip windows xp to ~30mb and boot into it to run software incompatible with windows vista.

Linux is just the kernel with 3rd party application like KDE or GNome running. Windows XP is the whole OS. If you want to compare size then the size of Windows XP kernel, the ntoskrnl.exe is not more then 12 MB.

... gr8 even XP beats Linux here.

Can u boot Linux into new "kernel only", & run Amarok? i guess U will need KDE/GNOME, won't u? This is the same in XP. The kernel is 12 MB only while on top of it other services run.

So a compatibility layer exists ?

Yes, & it is the responisibility of game developers to update there game to recognise this compatibility layer. If Valve, Epic & Crytek can do this to make there DirectX 9c titles compatible with Vista then other game developers can to. It's just that money wise it doesn't makse sense.

I run Doom, which is older and graphics based. So my point is still made.

Really??? Well, even I can run doom. I have a system with Core 2 Duo E6550 & Radeon HD 3650. C2D supports Intel VT & Radeon HD support VPU virtulisation due to which I can run Doom in a Virtual PC running Windows XP which is free from MS Download center without booting into anything. I can even run it in seamless mode.

why should I use a 1993 gfx card ? I thought the arguement was about operating system incompatibility, not hardware incompatibility ?

Hardware & software evolve together. Do you see anyone cribbing cos there nVidia RIVA TNT2 M64 graphics card is no longer working with Vista?

Graphics API has evolved due to which old things will not work. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Car manufacturing has evolved, due to which Crude petrol used in 1920 will not run a Ferarri today.

^^Some of the points made by you,gx, are really stupid! The less said the better!

and the ones by Metal were highly intellectual :lol:

gx_saurav said:
Linux is just the kernel with 3rd party application like KDE or GNome running. Windows XP is the whole OS. If you want to compare size then the size of Windows XP kernel, the ntoskrnl.exe is not more then 12 MB. ... gr8 even XP beats Linux here.

Can u boot Linux into new "kernel only", & run Amarok? i guess U will need KDE/GNOME, won't u? This is the same in XP. The kernel is 12 MB only while on top of it other services run.

Yes, & it is the responisibility of game developers to update there game to recognise this compatibility layer. If Valve, Epic & Crytek can do this to make there DirectX 9c titles compatible with Vista then other game developers can to. It's just that money wise it doesn't makse sense.

Really??? Well, even I can run doom. I have a system with Core 2 Duo E6550 & Radeon HD 3650. C2D supports Intel VT & Radeon HD support VPU virtulisation due to which I can run Doom in a Virtual PC running Windows XP which is free from MS Download center without booting into anything. I can even run it in seamless mode.

Hardware & software evolve together. Do you see anyone cribbing cos there nVidia RIVA TNT2 M64 graphics card is no longer working with Vista?

Graphics API has evolved due to which old things will not work. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Car manufacturing has evolved, due to which Crude petrol used in 1920 will not run a Ferarri today.

ah yes, but two Kernels can use the same set of softwares in Linux's case. Actually, the kernel is even more small. I know its not bigger than 25mb, because one of the samllest distros with a 100% complete kernel and GUI is 25mb.

In linux, drivers can be built into the kernel, and new ones patched into the current kernel. And the other applications in linux are not what you call "third party" because the kernel is but a fragment of the main project, where the whole OS lies, and its called "GNU".

Softwares don't "evolve" as in humans, where you have little or no control in your evolution. In software, the programmer has independence to decide what his software can and can't do. OpenGL can effortlessly emulate older environments, and if there are any issues, compatibility layers are called upon to do the work.

Graphics hardwere were never the objective of what I said. Even if I use a C2Q Q9450 system with 8GB DDR3 1600 MHz ram and a 9800GX2 GPU, Windows Vista can't run Motocross Madness without having to waste lots and lots of space installing windows <old>, real or virtual. Hell, even windows XP can't run Motocross Madness.

Here lies the true beauty of operating systems based on the linux kernel and the GNU project. Every effort is put to maximise performance, reduce resource usage and still ensure that older stuff can be easily run.

Windows can never ever do such a thing, not because the OS is not capable of such a thing, but because the developers don't want to add such features.

Even in virtualisation, linux rules. Its native support for virtualisation is much older than vista's. Its also much more effective in doing so, and there are dedicated OSes available to enable an operation which may need an older kernel, such that they remain tiny in size, almost always less than 50mb.

While windows vista could never manage to run older windows games, how could even Linux manage to do that through wine ? And here you don't need to install a 2GB OS. Just a maximum of 90 mb of a software and you have ability to do things windows vista can't but its predecessors could.

Linux out performs windows in almost every single angle. Only recently a couple of months back did Ubuntu Hardy's ALPHA release beat the crap out of Windows Vista Ultimate in Quadro Graphics Benchmarks, and vista later lost to Solaris as well.

But for the Nth time, windows is not even so bad that it CAN'T do something. Its just that it has not been developed in the right track.

MetalheadGautham said:
ah yes, but two Kernels can use the same set of softwares in Linux's case. Actually, the kernel is even more small. I know its not bigger than 25mb, because one of the samllest distros with a 100% complete kernel and GUI is 25mb.

Still, 25 MB is more then 12 MB of Windows XP

In linux, drivers can be built into the kernel, and new ones patched into the current kernel.

Windows is not linux. You do not need to built the driver in the kernel. It runs separately so that in any case if the driver crashes, the OS doesn't. This is the reason that if I remove my Radeon HD 3650 & replace it with a GeForce 8200, Windows will not refuse to boot. It will simply boot & install the new drivers via Windows Update. Linux on the other hand will refuse to boot.

And the other applications in linux are not what you call "third party" because the kernel is but a fragment of the main project, where the whole OS lies, and its called "GNU".

Don't care

OpenGL can effortlessly emulate older environments, and if there are any issues, compatibility layers are called upon to do the work.

DirectX 10 can effortlessly emulate DirectX 9c & lower enviroment using DirectX 9l, it's just that software developer needs to tell the game to use DirectX 9l.

Graphics hardwere were never the objective of what I said. Even if I use a C2Q Q9450 system with 8GB DDR3 1600 MHz ram and a 9800GX2 GPU, Windows Vista can't run Motocross Madness without having to waste lots and lots of space installing windows <old>, real or virtual. Hell, even windows XP can't run Motocross Madness.

Lolz.....

Here lies the true beauty of operating systems based on the linux kernel and the GNU project. Every effort is put to maximise performance, reduce resource usage and still ensure that older stuff can be easily run.

While leaving features like VPU recovery, GPU virtualisation, GPGPU etc....

Windows can never ever do such a thing, not because the OS is not capable of such a thing, but because the developers don't want to add such features.

Who told u that? Did you talk to all developers? A new feature means a method to market there product, only an insane developer will not add features to there software, or if it is Apple.

Even in virtualisation, linux rules. Its native support for virtualisation is much older than vista's. Its also much more effective in doing so, and there are dedicated OSes available to enable an operation which may need an older kernel, such that they remain tiny in size, almost always less than 50mb.

Tell me, does that 50 MB OS runs Amarok .2 beta without installing anything else in the VM?

While windows vista could never manage to run older windows games, how could even Linux manage to do that through wine ? And here you don't need to install a 2GB OS. Just a maximum of 90 mb of a software and you have ability to do things windows vista can't but its predecessors could.

Vista can run old games. What WINE is doing is converting directX calls to OpenGL which kills performance. So you are ok with performance hit while running through Wine but not when running through DX 9l.

Linux out performs windows in almost every single angle. Only recently a couple of months back did Ubuntu Hardy's ALPHA release beat the crap out of Windows Vista Ultimate in Quadro Graphics Benchmarks, and vista later lost to Solaris as well.

Lolz....again , it was OpenGL & professional benchmark. Try benchmarking UT 2007

But for the Nth time, windows is not even so bad that it CAN'T do something. Its just that it has not been developed in the right track.

U r a certified Nutjob who doesn't listens to something other are saying. Sorry, my train is at 8 PM, enough of time pass, time to pack bags. Can't humiliate u anymore.

well,@gowtham: my Debian custom compiled zen sources linux kernel is 1.4MB for vmlinuz and for initrd it is 6MB.

now?
what gxsourav wrote in last post is completely bull sh!t and pathetic! not even worth replying.

praka123 said:
well,@gowtham: my Debian custom compiled zen sources linux kernel is 1.4MB for vmlinuz and for initrd it is 6MB.

now?

Now let him play Motocross on that 6 MB :lol:

praka123 said:
well,@gowtham: my Debian custom compiled zen sources linux kernel is 1.4MB for vmlinuz and for initrd it is 6MB.

Lolz...what a comparision.

Windows XP kernel is 12 MB.

Linux kernel is 25 MB

Prakash's Customised Linux kernel with everything he doesn't need removed, support for other hardware then his own removed is 1.4 MB.

Hey, WIndows Vista takes 7 GB here after installation, but my custom VLite Vista takes 3 GB only, just that I cannot run many things on it....

Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

what gxsourav wrote in last post is completely bull sh!t and pathetic! not even worth replying.

Sure, it would be better if u don't

praka123 said:
what gxsourav wrote in last post is completely bull sh!t and pathetic! not even worth replying.

praka123 said:
^why panic when something true about FOSS is exposed? eh?shocked?

@imav: you are what ppl called us "blind-follower"

I pity you.my condolences to you being a fanboy

this is for you dear imav and also to you chelas also:
*blip.tv/file/340692/
^edit: I esp like DCS (Doesnt catch sh1t

)

I think the discussion gone a long way from what the original thread title suggests.
Where does vista stands when it comes to business? Is vista a revolutionary os to change the entire server market which Linux own the most as of now? no

praka123 said:
@imav: you are what ppl called us "blind-follower"

At the expense of going off topic, a blind follower is some one who does not know what he is doing/talking. Unfortunately for you, I do and therefore know what things like DRM are, who started them and stuff like that, unlike some other members who just find it as an excuse to target only one of the many products that implement it.

The last thing I want is your condolences. I would rather use OS X than accept your condolences.

DRM is forced to ppls neck directly by winblows vi$ta thx to Micro$haft and RIAA.
no one-no one else dear boy imav :lol:

now,come on baby!have your senses back.I cannot tolerate Vi$ta supporters.they are relying on a dead horse.

and the most surprising thing is,you and other M$ fanboys are supporting a monopolist,world over renowned for their cr@p ways esp with Linux and open source,end user rights(putting end user crippled with EULA),who wants to kill all competitions,who is what is rightly called BOFH(bill gates).

well,if we in F1 support ferrari or mclarens it is OK.but some ppl who are what we call supports the anti-human ppl(microsoft).disgusting you moron

!

Linux-it is not owned by someone like that BOFH in redmond.
you,you and you -STFU with your M$haft.it is totally irritating with you supporting Vista cr@p.I am going defensive most times due to you M$ boy!.stop or else dual.

VISTA is a Bloatware itself.

My *new* laptop costing 53k runs a lot slower than my Old & rusty desktop costing 25k.

no offense meant, Microsoft should make it more resources friendly.

You need to understand one thing that MS only makes the software, new laptops being slow has a lot to do with the Laptop manufacturer's tie ups with various other companies like Norton that make the laptop lag and it is NOT Vista at fault.

iMav said:
You need to understand one thing that MS only makes the software, new laptops being slow has a lot to do with the Laptop manufacturer's tie ups with various other companies like Norton that make the laptop lag and it is NOT Vista at fault.

Even after removing all third party software, my laptop used to run very slowly with Vista. Then I dumped it and moved to Linux and now it runs at least 4 times faster.

Whether MS fault or not, Vista has a large memory requirement and this is a fact.

gx_saurav said:
Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

We know that you are rich people. Keep your money with you and MS. I will rather spend my money on a charity than buying software.

iMav said:
You need to understand one thing that MS only makes the software, new laptops being slow has a lot to do with the Laptop manufacturer's tie ups with various other companies like Norton that make the laptop lag and it is NOT Vista at fault.

ah fanboy defending vista at its best. I have seen vista crawling even at 3 GB. After vista's performance show on it all i can do is just just laugh and remember your & gx's comments about vista.

gx_saurav said:
Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

Its is better to have less space than more space with useless crap

@ praka
does your posts make any sense even to you.Please stop crapping every thread. You are promoting FOSS in a wrong way. You are acting more like FOSS Terrorist ( as infra once said) or barking dog seldom bites

I am FOSS supporter still I don't give any importance to your crappy posts think about other win/mac boys

You have got fire. Don't use it burn others but to enlighten them , educate them. You have got lot of free time. Use it to find/post some tutorials for noobs instead of posting all your crap.

Waiting for some cool tutorials from you

iMav said:
You need to understand one thing that MS only makes the software, new laptops being slow has a lot to do with the Laptop manufacturer's tie ups with various other companies like Norton that make the laptop lag and it is NOT Vista at fault.

Well infact i downgraded to Windows xp Sp3 with the help of service center Guy. He only Suggested me to install XP. Now Windows Xp also comes with all those Crapware installed but it atleast 3times faster than vista.

Good bye Vista for now, Will install it when MS improves it. Till then my OEM copy would site in Peace.

gx_saurav said:
Lolz...what a comparision.

Windows XP kernel is 12 MB.

Linux kernel is 25 MB

Prakash's Customised Linux kernel with everything he doesn't need removed, support for other hardware then his own removed is 1.4 MB.

Hey, WIndows Vista takes 7 GB here after installation, but my custom VLite Vista takes 3 GB only, just that I cannot run many things on it....

Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

Sure, it would be better if u don't

lolumad ?

there are many Linux users with +40 GB HDD. Do you think Linux users will remain behind ? if yes, you are truly mad and idiot. Linux users are much more advanced than you bloody winblows users.

Its is better to have less space than more space with useless crap

+1

gx_saurav said:
Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

Wtf

If there was no Vlite, what would u do
ask bill gates of the source code to compile it

and wtf do u think that linux users are poor
ive got just one phrase for you, i pity you

IMO, if you want to learn. use linux

H

Originally Posted by gx_saurav
Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

Wait, did you just call all Linux users poor? Well shitlock, I got news for you (again), if you look outside your Windows' world, you will find most Linux users have more capacity HDD's than you, even with your gaming, your movies and all, take a look. Head into LQ forums and show me one regular member having less than 300GB including me. As for me, I personally have 3 HDDs distributed into 460GBs and will be getting another 500 by the end of the month.

Linux is by choice and not by any other factors. Please keep your wiseass comments to yourself.

CadCrazy said:
@praka- Waiting for some cool tutorials from you

Me too

Prakash Bhai bhool to nahi gaye?

gx_saurav said:
Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

Mine - got a 160GB sata-ii primary,80GB SATA secondary...wait!I gonna get another hdd soon?kyon bacchu?gas neeche se nikal gaye? :lol:

oh yeah!I got a lowend gfx card(xfx 7300GT) coz I am not at all into gaming.but see others,I am sure they are better off.

stupid comments.
@crazy and @narangz: well,I am like you ppl only,not much knowledgeable in everything linux.but know something something,hence u know jack of all trade...

@gx: why do you always have to read less and type more ? I never said linux kernel is 25mb. Its less than 25mb and I am 100% sure of that, thats what I said.

And as for the part where you said its developers who need to ask their game to use directx 9l, the developers in this case are microsoft themselves

Wow u linux guys have so much hd space but still u crib about hard disk space of a kernel.

gautam, read the business reason above y devs won't fix this game

Wow u linux guys have so much hd space but still u crib about hard disk space of a kernel. i m scared now that my 7 GB vista install stands no chance.

If u guys r not poor then Y don't u buy original software & pay the developer what he deserves.

gautam, read the business reason above y devs won't fix this game

gx_saurav said:
Wow u linux guys have so much hd space but still u crib about hard disk space of a kernel.

gautam, read the business reason above y devs won't fix this game

Wow u linux guys have so much hd space but still u crib about hard disk space of a kernel. i m scared now that my 7 GB vista install stands no chance.
If u guys r not poor then Y don't u buy original software & pay the developer what he deserves.

gautam, read the business reason above y devs won't fix this game

#1. Edit your post.

#2. I bought original software, not pirated sh!t. Its MS who is trying to rip me off here.

H

gx_saurav said:
Wow u linux guys have so much hd space but still u crib about hard disk space of a kernel.

gautam, read the business reason above y devs won't fix this game

Wow u linux guys have so much hd space but still u crib about hard disk space of a kernel. i m scared now that my 7 GB vista install stands no chance.
If u guys r not poor then Y don't u buy original software & pay the developer what he deserves.

gautam, read the business reason above y devs won't fix this game

I say again, if you are addressing gautham only, put the entire context accordingly, don't call out all Linux users.

And wtf do you mean original software? Isn't Linux original? FFS use your head once in a while rather than talking down others. Windows isn't the only original software on the planet.

Thanks, but we don't need advice on how to manage our money, not especially from you.

@gx...i have tried posting here about the "quicktime thing " not playing my old rendered movies ,and not much of a hepl was there ...same with other forums
i cant wait till forever to get it fixed while i can use xp happily, and honestly who bothers about O.S , i just want my work to be done thats all...whether its xp, or linux or mac , they are all same for me.
all the QT works for me now using KMP, but i rather wait till thats resolved
and about the "windows media device", yes, i have told you in that post itself its not that good, mod and then reconnect it throws errors,
as said i will wait till the platform is stable...am in no hurry
and its not my O.S so am not gonna do the promotion campain by working on it somehow and pleading the users to go for it..

well the last line is not directed at you , but to MS...
its really funny to see them plead...well its their o.s so they can do the marketting anyway they want.and i got the liberty to select or throw away.
and i dont know why people have to quarrel much about xp and vista, both are for gods sake from the same company
no wonder MS is going down these days , an internal fight is the last thing you wil ever need.

I think we all pretty much agreed that Vista suck bad

!

Well Vista kinda sucked till SP1. Now I am starting to like it a bit.

iMav said:
and the ones by Metal were highly intellectual

Haha..even a person with little common sense and reading this thread from a neutral point of view can make out that what gx has posted in this thread is utter bullshit!

He doesnt try to understand what the other person is trying to say, replies with some crap and ends up looking stupid!

And now he thinks linux users are poor..haha

I seriously feel like using words which I am sure many people would want to..But restrain myself just for the sake of maintaining decency on the forum!

@gx: Good Morning! Wake up, open your eyes and see the world around you!

hullap said:
Wtf
If there was no Vlite, what would u do
ask bill gates of the source code to compile it

and wtf do u think that linux users are poor
ive got just one phrase for you, i pity you

point..did any MS boys bother to reply this??

IMO vista distribution in different flavours(baic,premium,ultimate,business) not done properly. They copied the concept from package cluster of Tux distros alright but forgot to include custom installation that would allow average user to customize the installation so as to reduce the bloated amount of soft that gets installed with stock installation.

In my opinion, Microsoft could have done a different thing. You remember these games like Diablo II, where you were asked what features to install? You could choose just the game, the game with music, and the game with music and cinematics.

Perhaps Microsoft could have just delivered to each customer the ultimate edition of Vista, at a lower cost, of course, and asked in the beginning on what to install - home basic, home premium, etc. It could be like you could install the basic edition, and whenever you need, you can upgrade to the next edition for additional features without reinstalling the whole windows once again.

Slightly more work, and slight loss of income, but it would have been more appreciated by the users, I feel. I have seen many debates like this over the net about several editions of vista, and how they are sucky in their own respect, and being neutral to the whole issue, I'm just saying this could have been a viable alternative instead of getting flamed like this.

axxo said:
point..did any MS boys bother to reply this??

IMO vista distribution in different flavours(baic,premium,ultimate,business) not done properly. They copied the concept from package cluster of Tux distros alright but forgot to include custom installation that would allow average user to customize the installation so as to reduce the bloated amount of soft that gets installed with stock installation.

Ok so now different versions is also allegedly copied :lol:

MS is well knwown for coming out with multiple versions

gx_saurav said:
If u guys r not poor then Y don't u buy original software & pay the developer what he deserves.

not all greed for money, some develop out of hobby and to break anarchy, for betterment of world.

iMav said:
Ok so now different versions is also allegedly copied MS is well knwown for coming out with multiple versions

u mean Multiple versions of Windows like 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, .... ???

gx_saurav said:
If u guys r not poor then Y don't u buy original software & pay the developer what he deserves.

Instead of paying for software, why don't you give that money to someone who needs it. I know its no use asking you, but at least I will do that.

^hypocrites they are!

you know,they are just paid may be by redmond.

see?how they defend this dead horse(Vi$ta)

iMav said:
Ok so now different versions is also allegedly copied MS is well knwown for coming out with multiple versions

am not denying the fact that copying is wrong..infact i encourage good and nice features to be replicated properly, need 1:1 not 0.5:1...
and btw you dont deserve to call basic,utimate and so on as versions...98,me,2000 can be called so. How should i refer developer, enduser, multimedia, workstation, server variant of customized package clusters embedded in the installation media of tux...different versions??

F

Lets take alook at this thread. Original thread title "Businesses Consider Skipping Vista" . then suddenly this thread goes to Motocross Madness which seems to be the main focus of discussion. Then theres a load of FUD that makes no sense or which is amazingly insane or some poster is tryign to look smart but somehow makes the person astoundlingly mornoic.

Points to note:
1. You should be flogged for buying the game in the first place
2. What kind of business sense does it make to support a product which has a near to non-exsistent client base. You don;t sick more money into dead projects. Get over it already. Use it as a coaster, reflector etc.
3. If you didnt know even Linux comes with its software restrictions. Example. Go back to the Sabayon channel and ask for support on the Sabayon Professional Edition 1.1 . The answer is plain and simple "its not supported, if you want help go and get an u[pdated version if it exsists.
4. Ever read the Microsoft EULA? Im pretty sure that in it it probably says that they do not express any warranties other than for the physical media itself. So if it doesnt run . guess what. You are out of luck.

For the people bashing Microsoft's Customer Support. I actually believe its one of the better ones. I've personally worked supporting Microsoft Products so before you start flaming me for it get your facts right.

Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.

You assume that the people and their systems on this forum is some kind of average of the systems all Linux users use? Hitboxx has explained this pretty well and I'm not going to explain it further but so that you know. The crappy systems that you "think" run Linux represent probably a very very small portion of the systems which run Linux so please drop the act that you know what we run .

If u guys r not poor then Y don't u buy original software & pay the developer what he deserves.

Again you somehow assume that we don't pay for software and we pirate every little thing. Just cause there are a few who probably, doesnt mean that everyone does. Like hitboxx said , if you are responding to someone then quote him. Don't use the words of someone on this forum as some kind of measurement to judge the overall population.

Instead of paying for software, why don't you give that money to someone who needs it. I know its no use asking you, but at least I will do that.

Out of curiosity are you a software developer? Cause by your post above you definitely do not deserve to be paid if you are.

FilledVoid said:
Out of curiosity are you a software developer? Cause by your post above you definitely do not deserve to be paid if you are.

No I am not a software developer and I am not against software developers making money also. What I intend to say is if you have a good quality product you can get paying little or no money (with full permission of the developer), then why not give the money that you would have paid otherwise, to a charity, or at least to those who are not as fortunate as you and me. Especially in India, we have a lot of children who cannot get even a days meal, forget going to school.

In any case, I just said my personal opinion and I respect people who like helping less fortunate ones. But unfortunately many people will spend money on expensive software which most cases serve little purpose. I may be a bit offtopic here, but just to explain my point.

well,this paid software/trialware time bomb -all this system have to change.subscription model.evolving business models using FOSS.
*follars.com

sourav123 said:
No I am not a software developer and I am not against software developers making money also. What I intend to say is if you have a good quality product you can get paying little or no money (with full permission of the developer), then why not give the money that you would have paid otherwise, to a charity, or at least to those who are not as fortunate as you and me. Especially in India, we have a lot of children who cannot get even a days meal, forget going to school.

In any case, I just said my personal opinion and I respect people who like helping less fortunate ones. But unfortunately many people will spend money on expensive software which most cases serve little purpose. I may be a bit offtopic here, but just to explain my point.

Dude, that is totally our personal choice. The thing is that we use Linux not because we are poor but because we think it is better. And it is better to use free and better stuff than buy/pirate paid sh1t.
Btw, i am not sayin that Windows is sh1t. I use it and i like it too.

F

No I am not a software developer and I am not against software developers making money also. What I intend to say is if you have a good quality product you can get paying little or no money (with full permission of the developer), then why not give the money that you would have paid otherwise, to a charity, or at least to those who are not as fortunate as you and me. Especially in India, we have a lot of children who cannot get even a days meal, forget going to school.

The point is, what one person does with his money or his personal choices is his business. Although I respect your view which is a rare trait one can find these days. The truth is most Linux users use Linux just because they can. Although there are quite a few products that do have alternatives. Sometimes premium software does come with features one would like to have and for that it comes with a price.

How many FOSS users personally donate the money?

Who decides what is good quality according to me? Do you decide what is good quality & am I supposed to accept it? Will you tell me what is good for my company and am I compelled in any manner to follow what you say?

Corporates too allow you to donate simply by using their services & not having to go out of your way to do something.

User Based Charity Initiatives By Microsoft

Again. That is our choice whether to donate or not.
And let everyone choose for himself. If the companies are skipping Vista, its their choice. Respect it. End of story.

I can't type much as I m using Opera mini but those blind users who say MS doesn't support custom windows installation & they need to use VLite should take a look at official Microsoft W.A.I.K.

Pathik said:
Again. That is our choice whether to donate or not.
And let everyone choose for himself. If the companies are skipping Vista, its their choice. Respect it. End of story.

Amen.

F

How many FOSS users personally donate the money?

Why donate money? Theres quite alot of things you can do to contribute back.

Who decides what is good quality according to me? Do you decide what is good quality & am I supposed to accept it? Will you tell me what is good for my company and am I compelled in any manner to follow what you say?

The user always decides the quality of the products he/she uses. Of course in Vista you would expect much (read alot) more since you actually spent alot of money to get that in the first place. As far as running software in your company, why listen to anyone

. Run whatever you are happy with or whatever gives you the most benefits for your business environment. If I paid for support for Linux (whatever distro) I would expect the same standards that apply to anything else I have paid for

.

such as ....?

PS: Sourav pointed out money

F

PS: Sourav pointed out money

Definitely I haven't donated money for a certain software in open Source. Although I have quite an array of software that I bought in US. Most required for the job I worked but all of them are for Windows Platform namely Windows XP, Office 2000 , Visio , Lotus Notes, MS Project etc. . Nonetheless there are way so many ways to contribute to OSS. You don't have to be that uber coder to contribute back.

FilledVoid said:
The user always decides the quality of the products he/she uses. Of course in Vista you would expect much (read alot) more since you actually spent alot of money to get that in the first place. As far as running software in your company, why listen to anyone . Run whatever you are happy with or whatever gives you the most benefits for your business environment. If I paid for support for Linux (whatever distro) I would expect the same standards that apply to anything else I have paid for .

Exactly and no one has the right to question the morality of some one using proprietary software and pass judgmental & generalized comments like:

sourav123 said:
But unfortunately many people will spend money on expensive software which most cases serve little purpose. I may be a bit offtopic here, but just to explain my point.

FilledVoid said:
Definitely I haven't donated money for a certain software in open Source. Although I have quite an array of software that I bought in US. Most required for the job I worked but all of them are for Windows Platform namely Windows XP, Office 2000 , Visio , Lotus Notes, MS Project etc. . Nonetheless there are way so many ways to contribute to OSS. You don't have to be that uber coder to contribute back.

My comment was more of a reply to Sourav than to you.

iMav said:
such as ....?

PS: Sourav pointed out money

Such as this

*nongeeksight.blogspot.com/2006/09/5-ways-to-contribute-to-open-source.html

dude, Sourav was not referring to contribution to FOSS but towards the real India, bhooka India, nanga India.

Don't you guys read the comments made by others? Are you guys waiting in anticipation for me & gx to post something and jump on the anti-MS bandwagon by quoting us?

iMav said:
dude, Sourav was not referring to contribution to FOSS but towards the real India, bhooka India, nanga India.

Offtopic:

Lol iMav, you are one of a kind man. Kabhi kabhi tumhari post padhke hanse bina raha nahin jata (dont take it in the wrong sense buddy, it is a compliment

).

iMav said:
dude, Sourav was not referring to contribution to FOSS but towards the real India, bhooka India, nanga India.

Don't you guys read the comments made by others? Are you guys waiting in anticipation for me & gx to post something and jump on the anti-MS bandwagon by quoting us?

Well if you read posts carefully, you would have known that both of us posted at almost the same time and before your post above mine it looks like you were asking "Such as.." to FilledVoids comments of contributing to Open Source!!

gx_saurav said:
I can't type much as I m using Opera mini but those blind users who say MS doesn't support custom windows installation & they need to use VLite should take a look at official Microsoft W.A.I.K.

WAIK is no where near to vlite..WAIK itself is a big bloat around a gb while vlite is just an mb. I suppose we cant remove any component from vista using W.A.I.K. Only thing it does is automated installation and deployment with some addon components(drivers mostly). It can be useful for manufacturers like dell and others but not for end users. User reviews also suggests the same.

AFAIK Windows AIK is a pain in the a$$.Though I totally don't like Image Based OS Deployment, often in enterprises which have more than 1000 to 2000 Windows XP Desktops, Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image is used to clone 1 Workstation and then SysPrep is run in order to eliminate System Specific Components and then deployed to other workstations.

In case of Linux example Red Hat, installation can be done by copying the RPMs to a Web Server and then by booting the required machine using a small Boot CD or PXE Boot and the whole installation can be carried out without the need for OS CD.

Is this kind of installation possible in Windows ?
I know for sure that Unattended Setup and Remote Installation Services including Enterprise Desktop Deployment and Windows Deployment Services can be used to deploy OS unattended but most of them take hell a lot of time for the initial prep of Images.

@mr.Pillay:now I think you can understand the reality if gone through this discussion.generally ppl with highend PC can only run Vi$ta although with gr8 difficulty.not to say this OS flopped.
Vista is a total bloat with DRM.now Windows 7 is coming in a year or so.
I am confident that the monopoly of redmond monarch is slowly being eliminating -thx to Linux and other operating systems.
Think from both sides.I think you seems to be thinking like a lawyer father trying to protect a criminal kid(M$FT).stop and think sane.
DEMOCRACY RULES,FOSS RULES!

*gigasmilies.googlepages.com/37.gif

FilledVoid said:
Lets take alook at this thread. Original thread title "Businesses Consider Skipping Vista" . then suddenly this thread goes to Motocross Madness which seems to be the main focus of discussion. Then theres a load of FUD that makes no sense or which is amazingly insane or some poster is tryign to look smart but somehow makes the person astoundlingly mornoic.

Points to note:
1. You should be flogged for buying the game in the first place
2. What kind of business sense does it make to support a product which has a near to non-exsistent client base. You don;t sick more money into dead projects. Get over it already. Use it as a coaster, reflector etc.
3. If you didnt know even Linux comes with its software restrictions. Example. Go back to the Sabayon channel and ask for support on the Sabayon Professional Edition 1.1 . The answer is plain and simple "its not supported, if you want help go and get an u[pdated version if it exsists.
4. Ever read the Microsoft EULA? Im pretty sure that in it it probably says that they do not express any warranties other than for the physical media itself. So if it doesnt run . guess what. You are out of luck.

1. I have every right to buy a product I want to buy, and the thing I paid for is not supported by the same company's OS. And you think its not a problem ?

2. This is not business sence. I not only pay for a product, I also pay for its services. So its the company's obligation to support the product which it sold. Otherwise, it is supposed to supply us with an alternative at no cost at all. I haven't got either.

3. Such things don't happen in linux; I am not prevented by the OS in anyway to NOT use an older software. Older OS fine, but newer OS does not STOP me from using an older software.

4. Don't remember it. And yes, I am perhaps out of luck. But the same thing makes me ensure that others don't get trapped like me. Imagine what will happen 12 years from now. Now you buy Microsoft Office 2008, and are assured full support for this product. But 12 years from now, it is not supported, despite you having paid for it, with reasons sited to you like "it is obsolete", etc. And from what I remember, warranty for a product is from the date of its sale. My Motocross madness is still technically under warranty, still I get no support. WTF. I didn't deviate to this topic. It was gx_saurav who asked a software to be named which was not supported by Windows Vista. And I did.

My Main Point, once again:

once you pay for a software, the sellers are expected to support it, and can break support only if they supply an alternative for free, or if the money is refunded.

MetalheadGautham said:
once you pay for a software, the sellers are expected to support it, and can break support only if they supply an alternative for free, or if the money is refunded.

1. It is rather jingoistic if you have this yard stick only for Software and nothing else, even stuff not related to computers in the remotest of ways.

2. They might be *expected* to according to you, but are not compelled in any way to do so.

3. Oh btw with regards to Motocross Madness 2, I think Vista supports it

F

1. I have every right to buy a product I want to buy, and the thing I paid for is not supported by the same company's OS. And you think its not a problem ?

Since you would like to go further with this let me explain further. You didnt buy the product you actually leased or set up an agreement for its usage. Like you have a right to buy the product they have every right to discontinue support for every product they dont seem worthy of supporting due to lack of customers or something silly like because it was raining it doesnt matter . And No I don't think its a problem.

2. This is not business sence. I not only pay for a product, I also pay for its services. So its the company's obligation to support the product which it sold. Otherwise, it is supposed to supply us with an alternative at no cost at all. I haven't got either.

Sure it is. Why don't you do us all a favor and call Microsoft and tell us what they told you. After all you do have a licensed key for it right? Oh by the way read the EULA of the product you have anyway. I wonder if it actually does claim to run on ALL Windows Family Operating systems. By any chance did you get this free on Digit also instead of actually buying it?

3. Such things don't happen in linux; I am not prevented by the OS in anyway to NOT use an older software. Older OS fine, but newer OS does not STOP me from using an older software.

Who is talking about Applications? Im talking about support. I recently was going to try out Sabayon which I did on a live cd anyway but when I went to the channel the answer is quite simple "We don't support it anymore". Im sure there are tonnes of more examples but first of all Id probably need that link to Openoffice .1 beta??? Where exactly did you download that from . Id like to try it out.

4. Don't remember it. And yes, I am perhaps out of luck. But the same thing makes me ensure that others don't get trapped like me. Imagine what will happen 12 years from now. Now you buy Microsoft Office 2008, and are assured full support for this product. But 12 years from now, it is not supported, despite you having paid for it, with reasons sited to you like "it is obsolete", etc. And from what I remember, warranty for a product is from the date of its sale. My Motocross madness is still technically under warranty, still I get no support. WTF. I didn't deviate to this topic. It was gx_saurav who asked a software to be named which was not supported by Windows Vista. And I did.

Dude , what I am saying is in their license agreement its probably given like this.

Supported Operating Systems: Windows 2000; Windows Server 2003; Windows Vista; Windows XP

Source : *www.microsoft.com/downloads/detail...C4-FA3A-4F9F-82B6-CBCD6108A980&displaylang=en
That is for MS Office Home and Student Edition . Look at what Operating systems are supported. Does your EULA in anyway says that it will support every other version of Windows cause I seriously doubt it. You do NOT get support for stuff which you choose to run on non supported platforms.

My Motocross madness is still technically under warranty, still I get no support.

Assuming You did buy this in 2004 you think you still have a warranty after 4 years? If I recall correct warranties are only for media. But then again if you so think you deserve it why not go the right way. Call microsoft up and tell them you deserve support. Tell them that your Motocross madness is not running on your Vista system. And that you feel that you have been cheated.

iMav said:
dude, Sourav was not referring to contribution to FOSS but towards the real India, bhooka India, nanga India.

I am very sorry to say, but I never expected this kind of comment from a thinkdigit member. If you dont want to contribute to any kind of charity, I have no problems with you. But please do not write words like 'bhooka India, nanga India'. Makes me wonder, are you an Indian?

I personally have seen the poor condition of child labours across many villages in India. They are treated like slaves in most places, if not worse. I feel happy when I can make a contribution to send at least one of them to school to lead a better life. If you do not like to 'waste' your money like that, then do as you wish.

Also, my views had little to do with MS or FOSS. It was just a suggestion and my personal view. And I do respect Bill Gates for whatever he is doing with his foundation.

sourav123 said:
I am very sorry to say, but I never expected this kind of comment from a thinkdigit member. If you dont want to contribute to any kind of charity, I have no problems with you. But please do not write words like 'bhooka India, nanga India'. Makes me wonder, are you an Indian?

I personally have seen the poor condition of child labours across many villages in India. They are treated like slaves in most places, if not worse. I feel happy when I can make a contribution to send at least one of them to school to lead a better life. If you do not like to 'waste' your money like that, then do as you wish.

Also, my views had little to do with MS or FOSS. It was just a suggestion and my personal view. And I do respect Bill Gates for whatever he is doing with his foundation.

you guys seriously don't read posts in the threaeds :lol:

just wait in anticipation for me & gx to post something and then write whatever rubbish you deem fit :lol:

^atleast you both dont deserve any reply(coz they dont affect u ppl ; right?

).Microsoft bill gates have a daughter.you both go redmond try your best,while we can continue a sane discussion(I will not purposeful write FOSS if you do so!

).

I can vouch for sure that ppl like above my post cannot think how badly india suffers from poverty esp north and north-east india.

.comeout of your 10th floor flat and live a day in dharavi chompady.challenge?

well,Negroponde found OLPC for such poor kids.but that too was crapped by monopolist micro$haft.

praka123 said:
^atleast you both dont deserve any reply

haan toh bhai maaf karo humme, please spare all threads we post in. Please stop following me & gx in every thread and crap it with DRM, please, please stop, we don't deserve it. We don't deserve any replies from youo. Hope you won't follow us anymore.

I am not following.it is you both crapping the threads defending M$.

FilledVoid said:
Since you would like to go further with this let me explain further. You didnt buy the product you actually leased or set up an agreement for its usage. Like you have a right to buy the product they have every right to discontinue support for every product they dont seem worthy of supporting due to lack of customers or something silly like because it was raining it doesnt matter . And No I don't think its a problem.

Sure it is. Why don't you do us all a favor and call Microsoft and tell us what they told you. After all you do have a licensed key for it right? Oh by the way read the EULA of the product you have anyway. I wonder if it actually does claim to run on ALL Windows Family Operating systems. By any chance did you get this free on Digit also instead of actually buying it?

Who is talking about Applications? Im talking about support. I recently was going to try out Sabayon which I did on a live cd anyway but when I went to the channel the answer is quite simple "We don't support it anymore". Im sure there are tonnes of more examples but first of all Id probably need that link to Openoffice .1 beta??? Where exactly did you download that from . Id like to try it out.

Dude , what I am saying is in their license agreement its probably given like this.

Source : *www.microsoft.com/downloads/detail...C4-FA3A-4F9F-82B6-CBCD6108A980&displaylang=en
That is for MS Office Home and Student Edition . Look at what Operating systems are supported. Does your EULA in anyway says that it will support every other version of Windows cause I seriously doubt it. You do NOT get support for stuff which you choose to run on non supported platforms.

Assuming You did buy this in 2004 you think you still have a warranty after 4 years? If I recall correct warranties are only for media. But then again if you so think you deserve it why not go the right way. Call microsoft up and tell them you deserve support. Tell them that your Motocross madness is not running on your Vista system. And that you feel that you have been cheated.

answer in one sentence:

look at what I had to speak about motocross madness which I bought for ~Rs. 200/-. All this happened. Imagine what might happen for windows vi$ta. Its almost guarenteed that I am never buying another windows software in my life.

F

MetalheadGautham said:
answer in one sentence:

look at what I had to speak about motocross madness which I bought for ~Rs. 200/-. All this happened. Imagine what might happen for windows vi$ta. Its almost guarenteed that I am never buying another windows software in my life.

That you are definitely entitled to

.

Minix will kill window$

FilledVoid said:
That you are definitely entitled to .

did I forget to mention my eXperiences with M$ Encarta 2006 Deluxe DVD edition ?
I will be the happiest guy ever if I manage to sell it even at cost price.

praka123 said:
Minix will kill window$

that old thing ? is it still alive outside textbooks ?

MetalheadGautham said:
answer in one sentence:

look at what I had to speak about motocross madness which I bought for ~Rs. 200/-. All this happened. Imagine what might happen for windows vi$ta. Its almost guarenteed that I am never buying another windows software in my life.

Great decision.

u guys r still fighting? damn, how much time do spend away from the computer table ?

gautam, when motocross madness was developed, it was developed for old version of windows of that time as stated in EULA. MS is not bound to support it in favor of better products. It took U 5 pages to say what we already know? tomorrow if MS offers U a job as developer with a high paid salary, u will obviously take it ditching Linux. won't U?

hey, lets all sue Nokia for not developing software for my old Nokia 3315

Just work in the industry once, U will know it's all about the money, even Linux componies work for money. Y does Ubuntu charges money for server support then?

yeah money is fine but wats up with FUD ???

isn't prakash creating FUD about vista with DRM then?

gx_saurav said:
u guys r still fighting? damn, how much time do spend away from the computer table ?

gautam, when motocross madness was developed, it was developed for old version of windows of that time as stated in EULA. MS is not bound to support it in favor of better products. It took U 5 pages to say what we already know? tomorrow if MS offers U a job as developer with a high paid salary, u will obviously take it ditching Linux. won't U?

hey, lets all sue Nokia for not developing software for my old Nokia 3315

Just work in the industry once, U will know it's all about the money, even Linux componies work for money. Y does Ubuntu charges money for server support then?

Man, nobody is listening to you. And it is you who is always coming back and bumping the thread. You may say whatever you want, whether I or some other thousands of users use Linux or not is their *personal* decision.

F

tomorrow if MS offers U a job as developer with a high paid salary, u will obviously take it ditching Linux. won't U?

For some people earning top dollar is the least of their concerns. Stop ASSUMING that you know what Linux folks would do. Cause you don't.

Y does Ubuntu charges money for server support then?

AFAIK They charge for support. Not the Operating system.

isn't prakash creating FUD about vista with DRM then?

I believe this is a good article about DRM.
*www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows_1.html

no @biju: see this hell load of results :
*www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=Mozilla-search&q=Vista+DRM+flaw
who create what FUD?I just made everyone aware that Vista is a forced hand of Micro$oft and RIAA,Hollywood big B's on privacy of users.not to say this when hacked(already,I think) can be a big security issue.because this DRM in vista is actually rootkit!

F

no @biju: see this hell load of results :
*www.google.co.in/search?sourc...Vista+DRM+flaw
who create what FUD?I just made everyone aware that Vista is a forced hand of Micro$oft and RIAA,Hollywood big B's on privacy of users.not to say this when hacked(already,I think) can be a big security issue.because this DRM in vista is actually rootkit!

Lol I never meant you created FUD I was just showing a good article that showed something about DRM

.

praka123 said:
no @biju: see this hell load of results :
*www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=Mozilla-search&q=Vista+DRM+flaw
who create what FUD?I just made everyone aware that Vista is a forced hand of Micro$oft and RIAA,Hollywood big B's on privacy of users.not to say this when hacked(already,I think) can be a big security issue.because this DRM in vista is actually rootkit!

Cool man. Everybody (except a few dumbheaded people) knows Vista is crap. We probably wont be able to change those few people. But lets keep helping the others.

praka123 said:
no @biju: see this hell load of results :
*www.google.co.in/search?sourceid=Mozilla-search&q=Vista+DRM+flaw
who create what FUD?I just made everyone aware that Vista is a forced hand of Micro$oft and RIAA,Hollywood big B's on privacy of users.not to say this when hacked(already,I think) can be a big security issue.because this DRM in vista is actually rootkit!

We all know what happened to you when we discussed DRM

Vista sucks!Microsoft sucks!Monopoly sucks!M$ boys sucks!

^what happened? :lol:

you M$ ppl got pwned?wasnt that?

iMav said:
We all know what happened to you when we discussed DRM

what happened ?/

praka123 said:
^what happened? you M$ ppl got pwned?wasnt that?

axxo said:
what happened ?/

Yes we MS people got so pwned that FOSS users started saying that they will rather use pirated content than DRMed content. In other words, they don't wish to pay back for the hard work of artists

Dude praka for the nth time man, when you know nothing about DRM why are talking about it in every thread man, get your facts right first and then start abusing members & companies about something.

what you said is FUD.
I was asked by some elitist sickhead man -if you prefer DRM ?I said NO.nothing more than that

so they want to interpret that I dont want to pay for softwares,movies and all.
well,you can come and see what I have bought.
I got many affordable moser-baer dvds.

regarding this,@imav: arent you using torrents?rapidshare(I dont!)? OMG! he is the number one hypocrat after @charan.
sorry for namecalling though.

I know,you are so desparate to own :lol:

I dont wish to see those egostic developers,artists who want to have royalties running for over 100 years for something which rightly deserves to the community.

their hardwork is well paid.

well,what you said?I dont know that "DRM is needed to have to save humans in earth? "
I dont see!
DRM -
*defectivebydesign.org

Digital Restrictions Management and Treacherous Computing

DRM is often written as "Digital Rights Management", but this is misleading, since it refers to systems that are designed to take away and limit your rights. So, we suggest you use the term "Digital Restrictions Management" instead. We also suggest "Treacherous Computing" as a replacement for the misleading "Trusted Computing".

DefectiveByDesign.org, FSF campaign to eliminate DRM

Opposing Digital Rights Mismanagement, an interview of Richard Stallman by BusinessWeek Online about DRM

Boycott Blu-Ray

Reaction to the DRM clause in GPLv3, blog entry by David "novalis" Turner

Free software without the freedom?, blog entry by John Sullivan about DRM

A letter to the Boston Public Library from Richard Stallman condemning their use of DRM for public library audio books. You can help by sending your own letter to gref at bpl dot org, and by finding out if something similar is going on at your own local library. Please let us know if there is, and CC us on any letters you send at <campaigns@fsf.org>.

*www.fsf.org/campaigns/drm.html

oh!we dont know that DRM in Vi$ta can spy any thing

stop this fud.M$ chamchas.

iMav said:
Yes we MS people got so pwned that FOSS users started saying that they rather use pirated content than DRMed content. In other words, they don't wish to pay back for the hard work of artists

Post reported. Discussing 3.14rated and related stuff

F

I appreciate all the efforts Open Source folks take to convert others to their realm and help others to make the change with excellent help and advice. I personally have had a few people convert over here and it makes me happy, not to mention I probably would have never started using Linux if it had not been to Prakash and other folks who help (especially to folks on IRC ). But shouldn't there be a line where people stay away from the topic

. If I feel comfortable using Linux , then let me use it , Likewise if I feel comfortable using Vista let me use it. Each time a post comes up on Linux / Windows it blows up into something thats way way (read as light years) away from the topic

. For example how does anything in this thread relate to why businesses are skipping Vista .

Examples
Cost / benefit comparisons?
Roadmap set for Windows 7 , why invest on a product which is going to die soon anyway?

These are just topics worth discussing about. Please note I'm not saying the above points are valid. I'm just throwing in something which might add a bit flavor to the thread . If anyone feels like I offended them in anyway with the above post let me know and I will happily edit it

.

@FilledVoid : thats what i think too :-|

Businesses might be considering skipping Vista for a lot of reasons, I personally feel that companies might not be having the resources or will to spend on resources, considering the heat global market is facing for the past year courtesy the oil crisis, Indian's consuming too much food (before someone jumps up and says I did not expect a thinkdigit member to say this, this was said by George Bush when talking about the food crisis & price rise) etc.

Secondly, Vista might not in their area of work be providing them any benefit over XP. Most offices make extensive use of Microsoft Office (please FOSS stop crapping thread, don't start OOo vs MS Office now) Office 2007 has had rave reviews and companies have upgraded to Office 2007 because it works on XP, old hardware & provides a lot productive features over Office 2003.

The bad PR Vista has suffered is another reason for companies avoiding it. Add to that news of Win 7 coming out steadily with leaked screen shots etc. which as of now makes 7 look like a lot like Vista, most probally it will with a some changes, so companies don't feel the need to do switch to Vista as of now.

Lastly I feel that companies weren't ready for Vista, bad customer interaction to be blamed, Vista missed the corporate computer hardware change cycle, which defitnitely won't be the case with 7.

Vista gave lots of new technologies & features for us designers & developers to tap. it is actually a nice OS if U know how to use it. MS just needs to polish the vista backend, slim the code & move to a completely .net based architecture for software. no need to develop, just optimize

+1 to imav

Vista is suffering from the ME dilemma, though ME was a great OS in terms of the new features it brought it was not as well received, same is the case with Vista.

@GX_Saurav: That what me and shantanu were talking about a little before on chat. Optimization is the way to go for Windows 7, as it was when Windows XP was released after Windows 2000. It had a lot of optimizations over 2000. sure there were some problem in it due to introduction of new features, like the explorer crashes and all, but SP2 fixed most of 'em.

@imav: ya but since there was not as much pre-release publicity linked with it, so not many people heard about it and its "problems"

J

Vista is a good OS. I also dont get one concept... you dont cry when the next version of ur favourite game has higher minimum requirements.....then why do u cry when Windows asks for the same ?. Its a piece of software

Regarding business....the primary aim of any business organization is to keep cost at a minimum and thats why some are migrating over to linux.

Linux is great in its own ways.....it provides a indepth understanding OS concepts and working.Talk about plus points on your side (you have a lots of it) rather than trying to bring out the negatives of the other OS.

^^ the thing about games is, if you dont have a fast comp, you can play it at a console(if a version is available) in a net cafe, or a game center, or your friend's place. Not the same with OS... Its a piece of software allright, but its a very vital piece of software. When you complete a game, you can throw it away and play another. OS is not like that. A game is optional to a computer, but an OS is indispensible.

Hardware & Software development have to go hand in hand, if 1GB of RAM is standard and available we need OSs that can harness the same, I find 1 thing not understandable in your example, why do you upgrade your computer then? If cyber cafes and consoles are there, why do you upgrade your computer? You should still be on a P1, because you can play games on your console or at a cyber cafe. According to you softwares like Photoshop, Corel etc are optional and one can go to a cyber cafe to work on them, then why need Desktops, one should do everything on a cyber cafe computer & all our desktops should be P1s.

You cannot & should not have rapid development in hardware, where we have dx 10 cards like 8800gt and operating systems like 95 which run dx 5. Software development & Hardware development need to go together, if softwre can offer dx 10, we need hardware that uses dx 10 capabilities, if we can have dx 10 hardware why should there not be software that uses dx 10?

C

@iMav

OS is different from other applications. An OS should assist in running other apps. It should not use all resources itself.

Games - Entertains me.
App servers and IDEs - Help me learn technology or earn money.
Graphics Apps - Same as the previous one.

An OS does not sole any of these purposes. Continuously flipping the windows and seeing 3D flip is neither fun nor productive. May be except for Microsoft sales reps for whom demonstrating it will give money.

Another difference is when I finish using an app I can close it and all its resources are available for other apps and tasks I wanna do. That is not the case with an OS. It sits in memory all the time when my computer is up.

I upgrade my hardware to run more powerful apps not to run just an OS.

chandru.in said:
@iMav

OS is different from other applications. An OS should assist in running other apps. It should not use all resources itself.

Vista sucks when it comes to memory management. I tired opening a 4GB MPEG-2 file with virtualdub...due to large file size and limited free memory left for the app all the video data got pushed on to pagefile.sys(tracked stats using perfmon /res) further am stopped from using any other programs as system(4GB RAM) started to behave sluggish thereafter.

chandru.in said:
@iMav

OS is different from other applications. An OS should assist in running other apps. It should not use all resources itself.

Games - Entertains me.
App servers and IDEs - Help me learn technology or earn money.
Graphics Apps - Same as the previous one.

An OS does not sole any of these purposes. Continuously flipping the windows and seeing 3D flip is neither fun nor productive. May be except for Microsoft sales reps for whom demonstrating it will give money.

Another difference is when I finish using an app I can close it and all its resources are available for other apps and tasks I wanna do. That is not the case with an OS. It sits in memory all the time when my computer is up.

I upgrade my hardware to run more powerful apps not to run just an OS.

What OS are you running right now?

@axxo, Vista sucks according to you, not according to me, not according to a lot of other people, it sucks according to some and does not according to others, forcing your opinion as something said by God is well just say stupid on an individual's part.

C

iMav said:
What OS are you running right now?

Ubuntu 8.04 on both of my machines. One with 2 GB RAM and other with 256 MB RAM. Both have VRAM of 64 MB.

But I confess I don't spend my CPU cycles and RAM area on anti-virus programs.

Dude wtf! how come you are using Ubuntu 8.04, MCC interim linux uses the least resources :lol:

why not use that

Besides if you are on linux why are u teaching us about what windows is and is not?

You like Linux use it, is nay1 stopping you from using it, why are u crapping threads regarding Windows, is any Windows user coming and spamming the OSS section? What is wrong with FOSS users, can't you guys just accept the fact that there are more Windows users and than FOSS users across the wordl, leave with it. Sheesh!

Before ranting about Vista and Microsoft products, did you ever compare the sales figure or Vista and the number of rants you find online?

^^asking me?

iMav said:
^^asking me?

no, just in general. But you are always welcome to answer that

C

iMav said:
Dude wtf! how come you are using Ubuntu 8.04, MCC interim linux uses the least resources why not use that

Besides if you are on linux why are u teaching us about what windows is and is not?

I use Ubuntu because it gives good balance between resource usage and usability.

And I'm not saying this without trying Vista. Vista slowed down to a crawl on a system with 2 GB RAM without Aero the moment I started Eclipse and Glassfish together. But my Ubuntu runs fine with much more load than that.

It slows down with Flash and Photoshop open at a time too. But could not reproduce similar load on Ubuntu so can't do a fair comparison there.

rohan_shenoy said:
Before ranting about Vista and Microsoft products, did you ever compare the sales figure or Vista and the number of rants you find online?

Please ask Dell, HP, Lenovo and Sony to give a choice of OS when buying Laptop then tell me about sales figures. Also, ask BSA in India to raid homes for pirated software. The second one may not be directly related to sales of Vista but if people are forced to buy legal copies they would choose low cost of Linux and that would allow workplaces to buy and use non-Windows OS. If everyone knows only Windows then offices have to buy it too.

Someone needs help because : HELP~IS~HERE lol ... stop fighting and maintain peaace

shantanu said:
Someone needs help because : HELP~IS~HERE

Yes guys maintain peace. Don't flame. Don't add to global warming. Garami pehle hi bahut jada ho chuki hai

iMav said:
@axxo, Vista sucks according to you, not according to me, not according to a lot of other people, it sucks according to some and does not according to others, forcing your opinion as something said by God is well just say stupid on an individual's part.

I'm not working for anyone to give others a false information. from my own experience what i happened to see and what i come across only them i posted. If you still dont trust why don't u try yourself the test i posted above. Moreover its not just me or some but most say vista a thump down product. Btw did god(or M$) ask you to defend vista from others?

axxo said:
I'm not working for anyone to give others a false information. from my own experience what i happened to see and what i come across only them i posted. If you still dont trust why don't u try yourself the test i posted above. Moreover its not just me or some but most say vista a thump down product. Btw did god(or M$) ask you to defend vista from others?

Just like your experience has been bad and you criticize it, my experience has been good and I appreciate it

Oh btw did God or (Canonical) ask you to bad mouth Vista in front of others?

I think as chandru said,we dont want to see "technological marvel" "

" like vi$ta,which finishes swap and every available memory,but still sluggish .I think vi$ta is a conspiracy of M$ and hardware vendors to improve their sales,but miserably failed due to vi$ta flopped

chandru.in said:
Please ask Dell, HP, Lenovo and Sony to give a choice of OS when buying Laptop then tell me about sales figures. Also, ask BSA in India to raid homes for pirated software. The second one may not be directly related to sales of Vista but if people are forced to buy legal copies they would choose low cost of Linux and that would allow workplaces to buy and use non-Windows OS. If everyone knows only Windows then offices have to buy it too.

Very true.it is M$ who forces h/w vendors to bundle vi$ta.but Linux is preferred already by many SOHO's and all.not to say that corporations too.
but the problem ,I think is ,we need to pay "Vi$ta tax " or "windows/microsoft tax" with desktop/laptops that vendors selling ubuntu like dell dont want to reduce the $$ for vi$ta license.

Slowly but steadily-it is the end of M$ OS monopoly which is coming down.I am grateful to Vi$ta for the same :lol:

and imav:what is your problem?axxo said the truth.why you are trying to cover the problems of vi$ta? it is already a white-washed tomb(i$ta) .

praka123 said:
and imav:what is your problem?axxo said the truth

My problem is that, axxo's experience with a particular OS does not mean that it is the same experience faced by others. I like Vista infact I love Vista, I have recommended Vista based laptops to many, in my own family I have bought 3 notebooks having Vista, everyone loves it, my cousin who is in the US, owns* a lot of DRM content which he downloaded, he loves it on Vista, the whole thing works flawlessly as compared to other OSs that are incapable of playing DRMed content

*(which means he has paid for it and he does not support piracy, as compared to some members here who openly say that they suppot piracy)

iMav said:
Just like your experience has been bad and you criticize it, my experience has been good and I appreciate it

Oh btw did God or (Canonical) ask you to bad mouth Vista in front of others?

I cant explain people who run notepad or paint on so called vista. hmm...i have missed out the scnshot of how vista plays with swap memory(pagefile.sys) which would have better explained the fact.(got to install that atleast once more to post it her)

btw did God or (Canonical) ask you to praise Vista in front of others?

iMav said:
Oh btw did God or (Canonical) ask you to bad mouth Vista in front of others?

Such unethical moves are common for Microsoft to monopoLiez Windows.

^^ Ohk so now you guys are following suite? Is it?

chandru, if u use ubuntu cos it uses your hardware's potential better then Intirm, then we also use vista cos it harnesses the power of our hardware better then Ubuntu. atleast i can play motocross madness inside a VM with GPU Virtulisation but U cant on ubuntu cos linux doesn't support GPU virtulisation. (example)

C

@iMav

It may mean for others too. My friend who develops s/w as freelancer faced a big problem with Vista's performance. He is a Java developer. It is his machine where I had first hand experience of Vista's bloat.

He has a core 2 duo laptop with 2 GB of RAM. Vista home premium slowed down to a crawl the moment he opened Eclipse and Glassfish at a time. Then I had to convince him a lot (due to laptop warranty concerns) to try Ubuntu 7.10. Since then he did not look back. He runs Ubuntu 8.04 now and is very happy.

praka123 said:
I think vi$ta is a conspiracy of M$ and hardware vendors to improve their sales,but miserably failed due to vi$ta flopped

Yes anything with bad intentions has to fail.

@chandru.in:

If he is happy good for him. Why are you trying to crap all threads with one experience of yours, I have hundreds such examples where people are dumb enough not knowing how to properly use the OS features. Gx's tut helped them (though they thank me for finding it for them) the point is that if there was no one with a bad time with Windows Unix would have been non existent and vice versa.

C

@gx_saurav

Isn't 2 GB of RAM and a dual core CPU modern enough? Why on earth can't vista give decent performance on them (even without Aero ot Dreamscene)?

And don't tell me about backward compatibility of Vista the whole world knows how crappy it is.

iMav said:
people are dumb enough not knowing how to properly use the OS features.

Isn't Windows supposed to be that uber simple OS??

Jokes apart where is that tut? I'd like to point other pre-loaded Vista sufferers among my friends to it. So that they can try out if they can't switch over to Linux.

iMav said:
^^ Ohk so now you guys are following suite? Is it?

Never. Contrary to Closed(eyes) source MS , OSS never believe in monopolies. They believe in Openness and freedom.

Dude what do you mean by so you guys. I am not a blind FOSS fanboy. I don't follow open source with closed eyes like you follow MS (Blindly with closed eyes

). There are certain things that are bad in Open source. Also there are certain good (although rare

) things in windows

F

This might be off topic . But what is it with you people and Microsoft Motocross Madness ? I mean seriously is this some game I should be trying out? This thread is going down the drains with the other 1984322432 rant threads. Such a pity.

able to get this snap after search..just two aps in background vdub with a 4gb file opened and firefox with 3 tabs. The disk activity is insane that i couldnt proceed with my editing work. Now what makes MS surveyors

defend that vista's mem management is superior??

*i27.tinypic.com/16863uu.jpg

I dont think thats just two apps running? can you post the full process list, if you have? Just asking out of curiosity, no offence, ok.

Also you tried doing the same in linux? what were the results?

guess who is pwned? :lol:

dear @imav:you cannot go on every member or pledge every member NOT to post about how bad Vi$ta is!It flopped badly.now go on-start justifying window$ 7 -you gotta have a hell load of work defending it :lol:

@chandru.in:dont care for the filthy rich fanboy.you post the reality go man!

reality is,now people who are Micro$oft locked till choose winblows XP

.the others obviously moves to Linux,but got attracted to MAC more for the eyecandy

praka : i dont think vista is a flop in any case... the sales are going up and up day after day.. if ou talk about the problem, every working think has got a problem.. and without problem we do not exist... even life is the name of facing problems.. but showing False face is never good..

i do not talk as a M$ guy here.. i talk as a normal person using my first computer... i can use windows anytime but not linux... Vista has got benefits , a lot of em... and yeah it is a bit heavy.. but why you guy dont criticize MAC it runs on its own hardware ! its that monopoly ??? no its not its just a rule set by a community... So why Microsoft ?

XP was very bad before SP2 ... but now its a fav... why ? vista is in SP1 and it is too fast for me.. i get same FPS as in XP many times better too.. i guess heaviest app is like games or VS or ACD... ? we arent teeling you to run a supercomputer here ?

I think @shantanu you got it wrong.vi$ta may be doing nice in M$ labs ,but in reality -it is a flop man!.
MAC -ofcourse it is! but compared to M$ monopoly,macs are just not worth counting

axxo : try running 10 more applications and wait for them to load... and the work on them... ! just do that and you will get the answer...

well i think this is a waste of time but half knowledge is very dangerous.. ! so learn full ..

Q> R u using SP1 ? R u using Original ?

Explanation :

As is said try running 10 more applications.. the usage indicator shows you the hyper vent not the common PUI port..
now when you run a application say autocad, it goes directly to cache and asks for RAM, vista loads the app with rquired ram, say 100 MB, now you run FF you take 20mb and 3 mv per tab..

boss, its the applications that demand not the OS.. then if you have 1 gb ram, os keeps ( VISTA) onyl 128 mb free for itself in the cache.. and rest for the system.. so if you have a AV and that demands 100 MB vista gives it that... and with every application installed the agents for them share memory... and use it... but every application will run smoothly after loading fully..
but as in XP applications hang and stop responding in between.. because there was no memory management..

i hope you dont know that vista has over 1000 common ports and Linux has only 100... XP had 225,,,
dont aks me what common ports are...

Praka : on what stats are you speaking.. are you talkig of only you or 10 people in your neighbour hood.. or what exact stat.. if i say Bush was elected president by cheating.. and ALgore should have been the guy.. that does not change the fact that Bush is the president..

well : just give me the stats.. ? what exactly is FLOP in your meaning.. ?

and please : i aint arguing.. its discussion... on the best respect level for you and others

aila yeh toh technically maar raha hai :lol:

^ lolz

F

if ou talk about the problem, every working think has got a problem.. and without problem we do not exist... even life is the name of facing problems.. but showing False face is never good..

Justifying an investment to face problems hardly makes any business sense. I would guess thats what further keeps businesses away from Vista.

Vista has got benefits , a lot of em... and yeah it is a bit heavy..

Businesses always do something like a Cost / benefit analysis to justify sinking more money into their infrastructure. The main question is whether the businesses actually do benefit enough to justify the transition to a new platform.

As an example of a way old benchmark , let us check *www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xp-vs-vista,1531-11.html .

Now I know this is probably way too old but I seriously doubt theres going to be a noticeable change in data after installing SP1. If there is let me know. Looking at the performance difference between Windows XP and Vista I would never justify having Vista deployed in any company for that matter. however as said in the article the cost of processing power and resources has drastically decreased so you could go with the "What the hell , its just a drop in the ocean attitude."

XP was very bad before SP2 ... but now its a fav... why ? vista is in SP1 and it is too fast for me.. i get same FPS as in XP many times better too.. i guess heaviest app is like games or VS or ACD... ? we arent teeling you to run a supercomputer here ?

This is very true. However there is a small flaw in the logic. You don't invest in stuff basing your business decisions on hopeful assumptions. In other words you dont spend loads of money assuming that Microsoft will hopefully fix their problems. And as far as supercomputers are concerned I have no clue what you are talking about. You are telling businesses to run Supercomputers?

but as in XP applications hang and stop responding in between.. because there was no memory management..

There was no memory management in Windows XP? *technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457057(TechNet.10).aspx

Oh by the way according to the logic you posted above if axxo were to run the same applications on XP, (or any other platform) he would crash ? Just curious .

^
^
don't forget he is MVP and Microsoft spread his Micro Person every where so be careful with ur words

@FilledVoid : Have a look at this round table discussion video with Mark Russinovich. It may intrest you

F

Yes I have a question though. Did they know that Windows 7 was coming out this fast? I will listen to the whole thing and post further questions. We lost power once I was at the UAC control discussion

.

interesting point of view ,

manipulating is a very easy art mate.. the first thing to remember is that what exactly are you looking for for ?

let's answer some of the points.

Justifying an investment to face problems hardly makes any business sense. I would guess thats what further keeps businesses away from Vista.

Business : chandru : running a MNC or business ? a home user ??? is his problem is about a comapny that runs Microsoft Software and he goes reassurting things ? NO

we were talking about a person and not a Business COmmunity here and well if you have then also lets take something in point.. Tell me a single Company that takes Microsoft Software as in second place or says that its not productive... ?

** you talked about Business not me

and who says something takes business away from vista ? and who says Microsoft Justifies Risks or problems ??? i am extremely in a VOID by your comment..

condition:
you are not aware of any business arrangement or you are a master that is simply being ignorant ?

Businesses always do something like a Cost / benefit analysis to justify sinking more money into their infrastructure. The main question is whether the businesses actually do benefit enough to justify the transition to a new platform.

My friend as you are very aware of the business facts i am gonna jump to something very interesting.. The firms using Microsoft Software a new platform like vista goes in deeployment phase after Microsoft's approval ( by approval i mean the deployment phase is analyzed by experts sitting at a very high quality judgement and decision team that reads and analyzed data and output to suggest new and old companies to adopt or advance to a new platform) i guess this would be a newer thing for some guys !

Refer : MSPP

As you straightly jumped to companies and hifi architecture of things... i would rather skip the next part as this aint necessary coz you are just spreading a word thats NA

*** mentioned before !

This is very true. However there is a small flaw in the logic. You don't invest in stuff basing your business decisions on hopeful assumptions. In other words you dont spend loads of money assuming that Microsoft will hopefully fix their problems. And as far as supercomputers are concerned I have no clue what you are talking about. You are telling businesses to run Supercomputers?

my dear friend business runs only on assumptions and things that you plan to be in fact... ! i wonder what kind of a firm would that be which chooses a blank year directory and no plans for a renewal or addition.. i hope that the firms that uses Linux ?? maybe ( no offense to others)

In my thinking (rather shoot my thinking) you says no assumptions...
lets take vista ... why did Microsoft does not stay with Windows 95 ? or more stably XP with SP3 it rocks ? isnt it ?
ohh i forgot there was a assumtion by analysts that it might be a usefull addition to the growing community.. a assumption that this will boost Microsoft Corporation with some new heights with ... mind it with the increase in new technology and with addition to the increasing demands !

can you answer what Runs a Supercomputer ? and

well it was a say ( means Expression of speech for saying LOAD on a computer.. )

my theory does not says that the applications will hang or crash on XP but just try opening up 100 Internet explorers at once in XP and FF in Linux and then try the same on Vista and tell me which does the same fast and reliable...

Analyzing your facts makes me think INDIA should have stayed with US Space craft launchers and should not have developed it own, coz it was a Assumption that it might succeed and will bring something to INDIA...

Even i am confused that why you wrote what you wrote.. COZ we were not talking about business community here and FYI : A software Fail or Success is based just on Business community as Home users are agroup which is too a small to count success..

and Please Provide with a Genuine fact that disagrees with my opinion...

and one more thing : does a normal car and lamborghini has a difference between them ? both drive us ? but does one has anything extraordinary or compare Diablo and gallarado ? are both same , why did they release a superior model , both would have made 300kmph easily ?? why man ?

Krazy_About_Technology said:
I dont think thats just two apps running? can you post the full process list, if you have? Just asking out of curiosity, no offence, ok.

Also you tried doing the same in linux? what were the results?

I would have posted the same only if i had it unfortunately this is the truth trust me or not never mind. Dont get fooled with the scrollbar being little thin, every other process except vdub and fx were vista services and related child processes.
I didn't face such problem with xp. Moreover the only reason i still stuck with windows is mainly bcoz of the reason that i couldn't find better video editing soft like virtualdub/vegas for Tux.

@shantanu
While that snap was taken i anticipated such thing to occur so i initially run resource monitor in the background. After the file got opened in vdub i hardly get any memory to switch between vdub and other apps even the rmonitor. So further i couldnt run not even a notepad or paint where in the world i can open 10 more apps.
Its certainly not the prob with app. as vdub has been there for years and i have been doing this editing work for long time. Physical RAM also wouldn;t be a culprit. As i have loads of RAM(4GB).

C

@Shatanu

Wow! Now, no one will doubt your certification. Who else can evangelize MS so well?? I doubt even Ballmer can. Regarding Vista sales, for heaven's sake do not tell about it till all OEMs offer Vista, XP and a popular Linux (Ubuntu/Fedora/openSuse) side by side. If three people force my mouth open and pour **** directly into my mouth I have little choice. Then, saying **** is very tasty and has lot of eaters is stupid.

shantanu said:
my theory does not says that the applications will hang or crash on XP but just try opening up 100 Internet explorers at once in XP and FF in Linux and then try the same on Vista and tell me which does the same fast and reliable...

I did this test (a simple bash script to open 100 FF with *www.yahoo.com) on Ubuntu and guess what it did not slow down. I was able to open and use eclipse normally after all of them finished starting.

May be you should change your benchmark.

chandru.in said:
@gx_saurav

Isn't 2 GB of RAM and a dual core CPU modern enough? Why on earth can't vista give decent performance on them (even without Aero ot Dreamscene)?

Yaar i wonder, all the computers I have worked & configured Vista on, & using it myself...I don't get any slow down. Now, it is not my fault that U R not even able to configure your computer yourself for your own use with proper drivers etc even when there are so many tutorials just like there are many for Ubuntu. My friends who used to critisize Vista were amazed to see the speed & optimisation after I deployed Vista on there laptops here in Delhi myself. They were using XP , now they love Vista. This is the reason I wrote all those tutorials on how to deploy & configure so that there is no slow down.

And don't tell me about backward compatibility of Vista the whole world knows how crappy it is.

Situation is changed now. All old software are either compatible or compatible in form of new versions. ACDSee 9 used to run slow, ACDSee 10 runs very fast.

I did this test (a simple bash script to open 100 FF with *www.yahoo.com) on Ubuntu and guess what it did not slow down. I was able to open and use eclipse normally after all of them finished starting.

Do the same in Vista, U will have same results

The IT services department at my university supports over 2000 computers, 99.9% of which run Windows XP SP2. It's a rock solid and stable installation. They wait ages before they install non-essential software updates on these computers. For example, the computers still run IE6. They're planning to shift to IE7 shortly, in a phased manner.

The reason why they won't upgrade to Vista is that it will entail hardware upgrade costs, which can be avoided by using an OS which is more mature than Vista at the moment. I don't see any need to upgrade to Vista for academic purposes. I am sure 3-4 years down the line, they'd upgrade to Vista.

It's even more complicated for huge corporations. You'd be surprised to see a lot of companies running Win 2000 still because of the fact that it gets things done, and that they have custom software developed for such an operation system.

chandru : mind the language in which you speak .. rest fine..

can i get a screenshot of 100FF opening up .. and please tell me the time it took and please dont say 1 second

axxo : you problem is genuine and i understand that... first thing did you ever tried to check up Microsoft help and support ? try checking.. report problem here in troubleshooting.. i and all others will try to solve that !

mail2and : i completely agree ..

AXXO : r u using 32bit vista ? just answer this

^^here is teh pic of FF with 135 tabs opened + 4 VLC instances running in background + 1 Totem instance + 1 Kaffeine instance + GIMP image editor, still i was able to surf net and edit images without any hassles

*www.imgx.org/thumbs/large/17678_uxj63/Screenshot-9.jpg
*www.imgx.org/thumbs/large/17679_9gfp2/Screenshot-10.jpg

And its Ubuntu Hardy Heron 32 Bit, sheer power

T159 said:
^^here is teh pic of FF with 135 tabs opened + 4 VLC instances running in background + 1 Totem instance + 1 Kaffeine instance + GIMP image editor, still i was able to surf net and edit images without any hassles

And its Ubuntu Hardy Heron 32 Bit, sheer power

Pwned

did you guys even read what i posted ? i told you to compare that not to open and it willl open or not.. try openeing in vista .. ? just try it man..
GOD gave us mind to think isnt it ? what a dumb comment man

my god... i can hardly see any sense ...

did i say tabs, extremely sorry... open separate pages too..

C

gx_saurav said:
Now, it is not my fault that U R not even able to configure your computer yourself for your own use with proper drivers etc even when there are so many tutorials just like there are many for Ubuntu.

Apart from my desktop, I have installed Ubuntu on 7 laptops so far (4 of which ran pre-installed Vista slowly, 2 XP and one FeeDOS). In none of them I had to go through any tutorial to speed up the systems. And proper drivers? Do you think Dell and HP are so dumb that they have not even installed proper drivers while pre-loading Vista?

gx_saurav said:
This is the reason I wrote all those tutorials on how to deploy & configure so that there is no slow down.

The very fact that some unofficial tutorial is needed to speed up a pre-loaded OS is ridiculous. Anyway, where r ur tutorials? I'll give the links to my friends who suffer with pre-loaded Vista but can't switch for various reasons (like few office supplied laptops).

shantanu said:
axxo : you problem is genuine and i understand that... first thing did you ever tried to check up Microsoft help and support ? try checking.. report problem here in troubleshooting.. i and all others will try to solve that !

AXXO : r u using 32bit vista ? just answer this

64 bit vista and 64 bit xp. Initially page file was set automatically, then a custom size of 6.5gb, in both the cases the system ran into out of memory and unstoppable hard disk activity.
I know a way to get rid of this problem, with no page file or paging disabled completely above issue doesnt seems to happen. Now i worry only bcoz of this other apps should not get affected. Anyone care to explain what kinda error or problem the system can run into if paging disabled??

C

shantanu said:
chandru : mind the language in which you speak .. rest fine..

What language? Sorry if u mistook it. Replace **** with anything u want. If you replaced it with wrongs thins I can't help it.

shantanu said:
did you guys even read what i posted ? i told you to compare that not to open and it willl open or not.. try openeing in vista .. ?

IF it not about ability to open then y r u asking for just a screenshot?

shantanu said:
did you guys even read what i posted ? i told you to compare that not to open and it willl open or not.. try openeing in vista .. ? just try it man..
GOD gave us mind to think isnt it ? what a dumb comment man my god... i can hardly see any sense ...

did i say tabs, extremely sorry... open separate pages too..

*www.imgx.org/thumbs/large/17681_unjuu/Screenshot-11.jpg

112 FF instances + 4 VLC 960x540 video + 1 Totem instance + gThumbviewer + GIMP

chandru.in said:
What language? Sorry if u mistook it. Replace **** with anything u want. If you replaced it with wrongs thins I can't help it.

lol

'

C

Here is mine. T159 gave his already.

But if you argue opening other apps than FF3 made the system faster. Then here is mine with exactly 100 windows of FF3 opened.

*www.imgx.org/pthumbs/small/8544/100_FF.png

F

interesting point of view ,
manipulating is a very easy art mate.. the first thing to remember is that what exactly are you looking for for ?
let's answer some of the points.

I am looking for a sensible discussion based on the topic. Let me place it in bold for you. Businesses Consider Skipping Vista

Business : chandru : running a MNC or business ? a home user ??? is his problem is about a comapny that runs Microsoft Software and he goes reassurting things ? NO

I don't care what chandru is running. I don't care what Linux users are running . What I do expect is a normal discussion without FUD and is dealing with the topic.

we were talking about a person and not a Business COmmunity here and well if you have then also lets take something in point.. Tell me a single Company that takes Microsoft Software as in second place or says that its not productive... ?

** you talked about Business not me

Again you seem to think that I have some vendetta against Microsoft and is some how hell bent on trying to prove that "Linux pwns !!!!!11111one" . All I can say to you is read my post carefully. I don't tell people to not use Vista , I dont advocate against Windows products and as a matter of fact I have worked for a Microsoft Solution provider for at least 5 years. Oh by the way, if you must know , you don't use a wrench instead of a knife or vice versa. In some places it makes perfect sense to run vista and in others it makes perfect sense to run a Mac or Linux desktop.

and who says something takes business away from vista ? and who says Microsoft Justifies Risks or problems ??? i am extremely in a VOID by your comment..

condition:
you are not aware of any business arrangement or you are a master that is simply being ignorant ?

I'm definitely no master at anything. I'm a humble person just trying to understands peoples logic. But please do me a favor . Next time you post please take the time to at least check if what you posted makes sense. What condition are we referring to ? Whose business arrangement? Where are you going with this?

My friend as you are very aware of the business facts i am gonna jump to something very interesting.. The firms using Microsoft Software a new platform like vista goes in deeployment phase after Microsoft's approval ( by approval i mean the deployment phase is analyzed by experts sitting at a very high quality judgement and decision team that reads and analyzed data and output to suggest new and old companies to adopt or advance to a new platform) i guess this would be a newer thing for some guys !

Personally I found this plain silly. If you plan to buy product A you don't go to the company that made product A and ask them "Hey, could you guys tell me if it is ok to run your product on our systems ?" Anyway you can see from a post below and I'm going to quote the exact thing for your benefit.

The reason why they won't upgrade to Vista is that it will entail hardware upgrade costs, which can be avoided by using an OS which is more mature than Vista at the moment. I don't see any need to upgrade to Vista for academic purposes. I am sure 3-4 years down the line, they'd upgrade to Vista.

This is a true real life scenario. Companies don't just put Vista on their systems cause suddenly it came out

. Most companies do it cause it either makes business sense for them. This has nothing to do with being part of a Partner Program . Of course it does help getting free upgrades if it does entitle them to that though.

By the way lay off the "this must be a newer thing for some of the guys" attitude. It won't get you anywhere.

As you straightly jumped to companies and hifi architecture of things... i would rather skip the next part as this aint necessary coz you are just spreading a word thats NA *** mentioned before !

I don't spread FUD. I post what I feel is applicable to a topic.

my dear friend business runs only on assumptions and things that you plan to be in fact... ! i wonder what kind of a firm would that be which chooses a blank year directory and no plans for a renewal or addition.. i hope that the firms that uses Linux ?? maybe ( no offense to others)

This tells me clearly you haven't probably worked in the field? You don't run businesses on assumptions. You set a strategic plan on where your main goal is to maintain a competitive edge over your competitors or enhance your brand name in some way. Its like a game of chess.

1. You Attack
2. You Defend
3. You enhance your position

You might want to read yup on CSF's it might help you understand business logic further. Again I don't care if Linux does/does not get installed anywhere. Is this so hard to comprehend?

lets take vista ... why did Microsoft does not stay with Windows 95 ? or more stably XP with SP3 it rocks ? isnt it ?

They made Vista to make money

. Get over it already . Not on some righteous quest to help the community out.

can you answer what Runs a Supercomputer ? and well it was a say ( means Expression of speech for saying LOAD on a computer.. )

I have no idea what in the world the above means. Are you telling someone that hes not running a supercomputer or something? I'm sorry I'm probably to old for this new generation dialects.

my theory does not says that the applications will hang or crash on XP but just try opening up 100 Internet explorers at once in XP and FF in Linux and then try the same on Vista and tell me which does the same fast and reliable...

I'm not even going here cause it has nothing to do with the topic at all. Basically you're saying that a premium product is justified to crash just cause Linux does? Further more I think axxo mentioned what applications he was running. It was 2 if I recall right.

Analyzing your facts makes me think INDIA should have stayed with US Space craft launchers and should not have developed it own, coz it was a Assumption that it might succeed and will bring something to INDIA...

Get your facts right . It was not an assumption. It was a plan. We had the knowledge ,we had the resources , we did the development. In the case of Microsoft. You hope that Microsoft will bring out fixes , You hope that it will fix your problems, and you definitely pray that your investment reaps you benefits.

Even i am confused that why you wrote what you wrote.. COZ we were not talking about business community here and FYI : A software Fail or Success is based just on Business community as Home users are agroup which is too a small to count success..

Theres nothing confusing in my post from what I see. Clarify what you need explained and I'll happily do it. Just because you didn't read the topic doesn't mean that I can't post about it. A software typically becomes a success if they basically can recover what they invested in it and its not segregated by communities . As far as quality goes it extends beyond that. Software Engineering 101 look it up.

and one more thing : does a normal car and lamborghini has a difference between them ? both drive us ? but does one has anything extraordinary or compare Diablo and gallarado ? are both same , why did they release a superior model , both would have made 300kmph easily ?? why man ?

No they both don't drive you. You drive them. People don't buy Lamborghinis on roads which support 100 mph cars but of course theres always the style factor

. Are you implying that Vista is the "in thing" or a fad now? We are not talking about companies releasing products. We are talking about reasons Businesses might be skipping Vista. In your above example the answer is simple.

1. Id have to sell both legs and arms to afford it
2. Id go bankrupt filling gas in it.
3. My roads don't support 300 mph l337 cars.
4. Where in the world would I go for support(maintenance)

Do you now see what I'm talking about? I'm not asking why Microsoft released the product . I'm basically checking everyones view on why Vista might not be adapted to the business environment at the moment.

Man I hope this thread doesn't get locked till I solve my current crisis

^^nothing much ado about
Just a few clarification...thats all
Infact the people here in DF are slowly considering the other alternatives too. An open world where every vote counts.

FilledVoid said:
This is a true real life scenario. Companies don't just put Vista on their systems cause suddenly it came out . Most companies do it cause it either makes business sense for them. This has nothing to do with being part of a Partner Program . Of course it does help getting free upgrades if it does entitle them to that though.

By the way lay off the "this must be a newer thing for some of the guys" attitude. It won't get you anywhere.

I don't see where I showed that attitude. Sorry if I did.

F

I don't see where I showed that attitude. Sorry if I did.

Lol you never did . I meant shantanu. As per

i guess this would be a newer thing for some guys !

they want to defend vi$ta,but it is already a dead horse.
oh!@T159:you should not own Vi$ta guys like this!they will be very desperate now! :lol:

dont let them have suicidal tendencies

FilledVoid said:
Lol you never did . I meant shantanu. As per

Oh

Sorry for the confusion.

i dont understand just one thing... what is a PLAN OR strategy ? in simple word it is assumption laid on facts ? isnt that so.. do care to explain Assumption and plan ?

and newer thing it is coz it is ! Deployment team and tools are made for these things only... analyst and MSPP goes with same... ! do refer articles on net !

praka123 said:
it is already a dead horse.

Very true

Public-sector bodies sing Windows Vista's praises

F

I assume kalpik will ban me today on IRC. (No obvious reason it might or might not come out true)
I plan to ban kalpik on IRC today. ( Im sure I will In fact for the beenfit of the discussion Ill post you what I mean.)

Code:

<Filled-Void> kalpik, I need to so something
<Filled-Void> please dont get mad
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to Filled-Void
<kalpik> ?
* Filled-Void sets ban on *!*n=kalpik@*unaffiliated/kalpik
* Filled-Void removes ban on *!*n=kalpik@*unaffiliated/kalpik
<Filled-Void> thank you

That is a plan in action ^. Please note that the above plan is based on facts rather than assumptions. Why?
I know I have an OP privileges.
I know the command to ban.
I know kalpik won't mind being a lab rat for my experiment. (Please don't ban me

).

In plain simple words I know the outcome of the decision.

^^lol..w00t

Guys after this long long discussion I have decided to use Vista as my primary OS because
"Life is not all about Happiness(XP/Linux), we should also face Horror, Terror & Torture(Vista)"

Now finish it

CadCrazy said:
Guys after this long long discussion I have decided to use Vista as my primary OS because
"Life is not all about Happiness(XP/Linux), we should also face Horror, Terror & Torture(Vista)"

Now finish it

That's why you need to have Vista on a dual boot.

good fight going on ..

So many vistas
1.Astalavista
2.Altavista
3.MS Vista

Astalavista is my favt