Cheap Laptops Bad for Vista, Good for Linux

The good news for everyone is that you can get a good, solid laptop for under a grand these days. The bad news for Vista users is that many of those laptops, even though they're sold with Vista, have nothing like enough resources to run Vista decently. This year, from everything I've seen, has lived up to the Merrill Lynch prediction that 2007 would be the year that notebooks overtook desktops to become the bigger revenue generator for PC makers. For some companies, like Hewlett-Packard, laptops have become the single most important revenue source.

There are a couple of reasons for this and they're closely tied together. First, a PC vendor can make more profit on an under-$1,000 laptop than it would on a PC at the same price. At the same time, with Wi-Fi being available essentially everywhere and laptop prices falling below the magic $1,000 mark, more and more customers, both consumer and business, are turning to laptops.
There's only one little problem with this if your company name is Microsoft. Those under-$1,000 laptops can't run Vista worth a darn. In addition, Vista has become a bigger and bigger part of a laptop's cost. So, if you're a PC vendor, you could either upgrade your hardware—and there goes your sweet price point; put Vista Home Basic on the system—which even Vista lovers admit is trash; or continue to sell Windows XP and give adventurous customers a Linux option.
What's happened is that people aren't upgrading their basic laptops. Computer price margins are razor-thin. If people want top-of-the-line laptop, vendors are happy to provide them at an appropriate price point. But Dell, HP, Acer, et al. know darn well that they sell more of their cheaper systems than premium ones................................

More Here

Linux runs even on a 486 with X.

The NEWS is VISTA is crap...

lol wista is not crap.It is most powerful. It can make any hardware crapel (oops crawl)

can someone do something other than vista bashing? Kutch naya socho yaar, ye tho sab jante hai ki vista mein bahut kami hai...

anyway, I really think even dell can make lots of profit by ditching vista and softwares that one has to compulsarily buy with a customised dell PC/LT.
that can help them sell a below RS 20,000 LCD monitor decent HDD/RAM/graphics PC. all like the teen numbers.

^think about M$ using its power to make OEM's to bundle Vista in their machines esp Dell,HP and others cant afford earning M$'s ill will.So they are forced by the worlds biggest monopoly OS company.reality that is.users who are addicted to win platform asks for XP and M$&H/w manufacturers forces Vista on to them..pathetic.atleast bundle Ubuntu as dual boot with Vista.it will save users time and allows formatting of Vista! too

Is it true that many people are finding that Linux doesn't perform well on high end machines (especially core 2 duo)? I asked my friend why he switched out of linux. He said that it's all over the net, that Linux is meant for POS systems and since he upgraded to Core 2 Duo, Linux doesn't run well. I trust praka will give me the right answer (at least by PM).

(I know this sounds like a usual Linux myth, but I need some assurance)

Yeah.. Vista is resource hungry and cant give superior computing then linux does..

That article isn't speaking the truth properly !!!!!

Well, I recently bought an el-cheapo laptop Acer 5100 for $452 for my brother in India who wants the laptop to serve his studies... well the laptop came bundled with vista and when I installed it it was a bit slow (I was comparing it with my ultra-fast new desktop which I also got for myself to play Crysis)...

After some tweaking, Vista is running with all its effects enabled albeit at a low rating of 2.8 (due to ATi 1100)....AND to mention it is running super smooth with all its perks...BUT the fact is it needed some tweaking.. thtz all... !!!

Config: SEE FOR YOURSELF

*img150.imageshack.us/img150/2600/imag0001ww4.th.jpg *img144.imageshack.us/img144/4453/tempih2.th.jpg

I recently bought a HP lappy which came with preinstalled with Vista. I have to say the performance of the lappy is very low on vista. But when I used Sabayon 64bit live on that .. there performance difference was noticable.

I had asked my vendor if I can have a option of not having Vista as the OS, but they said its not possible.

^ thats really sad charan bro....

The point is when you buy a cheap laptop for Rs 22000-25000 (show me one that comes with windows at that price), you spend another Rs. 8000 for a plain OS and another Rs. 18000 for MS Office, is that all, no, antivirus and firewall Rs. 1500-4000, and this is the minimum. Unless ahem..... you install pirated stuff

And Rockthegod, I think that laptop costs Rs. 30000-35000 in India. Ddi you buy it from the U.S.

NucleusKore said:
The point is when you buy a cheap laptop for Rs 22000-25000 (show me one that comes with windows at that price), you spend another Rs. 8000 for a plain OS and another Rs. 18000 for MS Office, is that all, no, antivirus and firewall Rs. 1500-4000, and this is the minimum. Unless ahem..... you install pirated stuff

And Rockthegod, I think that laptop costs Rs. 30000-35000 in India. Ddi you buy it from the U.S.

It came bundled with Windows Vista Home Premium. Yes, I mentioned it earlier, I am sending this home to my brother who needs it for studies.... !!!

Ok, its a very good price/offer. We pay 1.5 to 2 times for the same. I had an Aspire 5002 NWLMI.

MetalheadGautham said:
can someone do something other than vista bashing? Kutch naya socho yaar, ye tho sab jante hai ki vista mein bahut kami hai...

anyway, I really think even dell can make lots of profit by ditching vista and softwares that one has to compulsarily buy with a customised dell PC/LT.
that can help them sell a below RS 20,000 LCD monitor decent HDD/RAM/graphics PC. all like the teen numbers.

DELL laps come with Ubuntu also. They have moved away from vista a bit.

atleast laptops with Vista force-installed :-|

on it bundle Ubuntu too as dual boot.so that the Vista user can have some relief.

goobimama said:
Is it true that many people are finding that Linux doesn't perform well on high end machines (especially core 2 duo)? I asked my friend why he switched out of linux. He said that it's all over the net, that Linux is meant for POS systems and since he upgraded to Core 2 Duo, Linux doesn't run well. I trust praka will give me the right answer (at least by PM).

(I know this sounds like a usual Linux myth, but I need some assurance)

Never knew >76% of top supercomputers were POS systems.
Your friend is an idiot!

goobimama said:
Is it true that many people are finding that Linux doesn't perform well on high end machines (especially core 2 duo)? I asked my friend why he switched out of linux. He said that it's all over the net, that Linux is meant for POS systems and since he upgraded to Core 2 Duo, Linux doesn't run well. I trust praka will give me the right answer (at least by PM).

(I know this sounds like a usual Linux myth, but I need some assurance)

Not @ all true. Mine is Core 2 Duo E6600 and i say its working like ferrari with UBUNTU 7.10.

well,i missed goobi's post somehow

.I mean someone shows what all options are inside linux kernel source for optimization and support for core2 or quad whatever.ask ur friend to use latest kernel always.Almost all high end machines are better supported in Linux.and if that doesnt suffice most of the super computers are running on Linux.does that a mean reply for U?

@yamaraj:u said it better

goobimama said:
Is it true that many people are finding that Linux doesn't perform well on high end machines (especially core 2 duo)? I asked my friend why he switched out of linux. He said that it's all over the net, that Linux is meant for POS systems and since he upgraded to Core 2 Duo, Linux doesn't run well. I trust praka will give me the right answer (at least by PM).

(I know this sounds like a usual Linux myth, but I need some assurance)

Does your friend own a Mac by any chance?

M

goobimama said:
Is it true that many people are finding that Linux doesn't perform well on high end machines (especially core 2 duo)? I asked my friend why he switched out of linux. He said that it's all over the net, that Linux is meant for POS systems and since he upgraded to Core 2 Duo, Linux doesn't run well. I trust praka will give me the right answer (at least by PM).

(I know this sounds like a usual Linux myth, but I need some assurance)

It is kind of true. Some newer chipsets come with these new technologies

which may not be supported on older kernels.
This problem had specifically surfaced for Intel's 101GGC and 102GGC boards then the 965 chipset. But, it was a temporary situation. The very next kernel release after the launch of those boards(I believe that was 2.6.18 in case of 965 board) fixed up all the anamolies.
The problem didn't lie with the processor but with the motherboard since the the drivers weren't present in the older kernel. But, more often then not it would still work with a bit of tweaking around.

ahaa!I found a link for goobimamu:
*kernelnewbies.org
^then ask ur friend to read the "features" what Linux kernel is!it is a wonder supporting cell processor,embedded systems...wherever Linux is gaining its grip.I pity apple for making bad name of UNIX by messing with FreeBSD core

now u see,winboys wants to prove that UNIX/UNIX-like OS are like windows-ie unstable,virus,malware etc/but apple made it easy for them by not fixing many security flaws esp the suid's(if u care to know what it is) for user friendliness,and now Leopard's copying error,FW exploits etc,I know apple fixed it fast.still Winboys are adament to prove that all UNIX are like Windows!puhleese apple!dont make bad news,follow the openbsd way

Charan said:
I recently bought a HP lappy which came with preinstalled with Vista. I have to say the performance of the lappy is very low on vista. But when I used Sabayon 64bit live on that .. there performance difference was noticable.

I had asked my vendor if I can have a option of not having Vista as the OS, but they said its not possible.

you would lose vista, but its upto you to keep or remove Vista isnt it

Just for some Facts...

Vista will run fine with ATi x1100 or Intel GMA 950 or higher... 1 GB RAM is expected for vista.... and any 1.5 Ghz processor CEL D will do too...

HCL sells their basic Liptop Notebook with 256 MB DDR-II and CEL D and GMA 950 @ Rs. 23000/- + TAX + some other charge... with bargaining it comes to around Rs. 25k or 24.5k all which to my knowledge is the lowest right now...

add a 1 GB module which is Rs. 1700/- now makes it around 26k / 27k... now thats perfectly capable enough to run Vista with all feature...

So even I can see that the lowest Notebook still can run vista with off coirse a ram upgrade... even when you loook at Linux RAM requirements all upto date distro will demand 384 or more RAM !!!! (corrent me here as possible that I am wrong)....

Then what is the lowest main stream notebook for India ???

^^ Thing is, even a 3Ghz system lags in Vista while performing fast in XP. That's what is killing it.

As for my query, first of all, I wasn't talking about super computers. Those are specialised systems with lots of tweaks and maintenance. I'm talking about mainstream computers.

Now as Mehul has mentioned, the 965 chipset was the one in question. My friend was using Ubuntu 7.04 (it was the latest then). I'm guessing the issues should be ironed out by the new Gutsy Gibbon. My friend is not a geek and can't handle tweaking beyond the settings here and there so there's no point in kernel talk (not that I know of anything like that).

There is a difference between driver issues and calling Linux a POS (pun!) system.

@goobi:if ur friend does not want to get gutsy,ask him to install a kernel > 2.6.20,possibly 2.6.22,it fixed afaik those incompatibilites esp jmicron controller problem.

Linux is meant for POS systems

I didn't mean Linux is a POS system. I meant running Linux on low end hardware i.e., POS systems...

vish786 said:
you would lose vista, but its upto you to keep or remove Vista isnt it

no, why should he pay for something he does not use? I feel customers will be more happy if all computers came with an option of letting the user choose the OS, or even select none at all. I mean, a 50K lappy will sell for 40K if vista was not bundled :shock:

Many of us upgrade computers, selling old parts and going for a new one. I have several friends who tell me they due to this have 3 windows XP licences :lol:

^^ yea I have paid for the licence .. thats whats making me think twice before removing it from the lappy.. BTW if I have to remove vista then I have to install XP for which I dont have a licence

^^^ And I don't see a solution to this problem unless OSS catches up. Companies here think that customers are asking for Linux or No OS so that they get a discount for not buying Windows licence and install pirated Windows afterwards. Unless they are convinced that they really wanna install OSS they won't implement it. Why else then Dell not haf Ubuntu as an option here in India while everywhere else, its available?

MetalheadGautham said:
no, why should he pay for something he does not use? I feel customers will be more happy if all computers came with an option of letting the user choose the OS, or even select none at all. I mean, a 50K lappy will sell for 40K if vista was not bundled Many of us upgrade computers, selling old parts and going for a new one. I have several friends who tell me they due to this have 3 windows XP licences

Tell them that they can select not to agree to the MS License agreement in which case they can simply return the key & CD Media & get the OEM equivalent of the cost back.

gx_saurav said:
Tell them that they can select not to agree to the MS License agreement in which case they can simply return the key & CD Media & get the OEM equivalent of the cost back.

You think this works in Indian scenario? I've tried it a couple of times. They say they don't care. If you wanna buy it wid Windows then buy otherwise you can go to some other showroom. Mind you, they were big dealers. Also what about Dell? You don't haf a choice there.

@gx hmm I didnt know that we can choose not to agree with the licence .. can you give me some link on this?

And I did not get any form or OS DVD or recovey CD.. there is just one dedicated recovery partition from where I can recover Vista, but it will also recover the crapware

. I have to make the recovery DVD's myself or I can buy one from HP again at additional cost on the DVD.

infra_red_dude said:
You think this works in Indian scenario?

Don't know about india. No one cares about paying for software here anyway. This is indeed aplicable everywhere else.

Also what about Dell? You don't haf a choice there.

Yes u do, just talk to the person on phone & convince him not to give the OS. Tell him u already have a retail license

And I did not get any form or OS DVD or recovey CD.. there is just one dedicated recovery partition from where I can recover Vista, but it will also recover the crapware . I have to make the recovery DVD's myself or I can buy one from HP again at additional cost on the DVD.

U can ask for DVD from HP or download the OEM CD from somwhere if u don't want to go the legal way. After this u can use your existing OEM key of Windows to install.

^^^ Thats exactly whats I'm saying. IT DOESN'T WORK HERE IN INDIA. Dealers don't care and hence the customer is left with no choice!

And HP won't give the DVD for free. You need to pay as Charan said.

gx_saurav said:
U can ask for DVD from HP or download the OEM CD from somwhere if u don't want to go the legal way. After this u can use your existing OEM key of Windows to install.

HP wont give me a clean Vista DVD, they only give recovery DVD's and it has losts of stuff which gets installed even if I donot want. I preffer original factory pressed media , so I have ordered a vista anytime upgrade DVD and from this I can clean install vista and activate it using my existing activation

members using preinstalled OS on their computer.. The Key on the back of you laptop/pc is not the one installed in you OS. the sticker is just the proof of purchase. all HP laptops/PC's will be having the same OEM key.

Charan said:
HP wont give me a clean Vista DVD, they only give recovery DVD's and it has losts of stuff which gets installed even if I donot want.

Install from it, remove the junk, make a bootable image cd/dvd of the C partition, you're done.

^^ I have ordered a Vista anytime upgrade DVD, and I can clean install from it

later will make a bootable image of C drive

I think this topic is turning to Vista bad for cheap laptops, headache for linux installers.

regarding the legal part, microsoft already lost the antitrust case in the EU, due to which it had to offer a version of windows without WMP for the euro market. do you think a similar thing will happen with laptops and PCs? That they will have to sell PCs without windows or windows DVD along with some other Distro discs but nothing preinstalled?

MetalheadGautham said:
I think this topic is turning to Vista bad for cheap laptops, headache for linux installers.

regarding the legal part, microsoft already lost the antitrust case in the EU, due to which it had to offer a version of windows without WMP for the euro market. do you think a similar thing will happen with laptops and PCs? That they will have to sell PCs without windows or windows DVD along with some other Distro discs but nothing preinstalled?

Whatever happens, happens outside India. We are left with no choice. Nothing is applicable to us. We are kinda outlawed. All these things are coerced on us!