Corsair VS450 · DIGIT-ARC

Hey everybody!
I have a pc with the following specs
Intel i3 540
4gb ram
1TB + 320 GB HDD
Nvidia 9400 gt
Msi IONA motherboard
Beztec300w psu

I am planning to get the r7 240 1gb ddr5 boost gpu so I'm upgrading to the corsair vs450 smps my ups u has. Step approximated sine wave will the smps work fine?and is the smps good?

H

Yup you are good to go.
And try to get the single rail version instead of dual rail. It is much much better

Stay away for VS series, they aren't any good. Get Antec VP450P available for 2700.

+1 to antec VP450

Strictly avoid VS. CM's GX series and Antec VP series are the way to go, but I am not sure of CM GX II so google out for GX II 450/400 reviews.

H

VS series is completely fine. Speaking from personal experience (more than 1.5 years of usage)

Is their anything specific against the VS series?

H

Detailer said:
Is their anything specific against the VS series?

IDK
I know at least 5 people (2 neighbors) who are using VS series and they never faced any problem

I'm planning to get it from flipkart @ 2100rs is there any better price option.

H

Detailer said:
I'm planning to get it from flipkart @ 2100rs is there any better price option.

Go ahead and buy

Thanks! Will do

N

Hello. Why not spend a little more and get CX 430 V2. I have been using it almost a year or so. I think its good one too. Mine has a HD 7790 card and I think it works fine.

H

nickreynold said:
Hello. Why not spend a little more and get CX 430 V2. I have been using it almost a year or so. I think its good one too. Mine has a HD 7790 card and I think it works fine.

It is better but VS450 is fine too. Choose any IMO

For a low end GPU like r7 240, I dont see any reason why OP should go for anything more expensive than VS 450
Yes, it does have +22A rail but R7 240 will never use more than 15A, Heck, even a GTX 660 doesnt fully utilise +22A..I m running a HD 7770 on a VS450 without any problems for a year..
The only bad thing is it doesnt have 80Plus Bronze certification, but in this review, it performs quite close.. Im not a fanboy, i always recommend VP450P but why the hell would anyone spend more than 2.2k for a GPU that doesnt even need as much power..
If OP doesnt need to upgrade anytime in the future, you might wanna try VP350P also

I have bought the vs450 and im pretty satisfied with its performance the reason i did not go for the vp450 was budget i could not spend more than 2100 and by the way what does OP stands for?

Detailer said:
I have bought the vs450 and im pretty satisfied with its performance the reason i did not go for the vp450 was budget i could not spend more than 2100 and by the way what does OP stands for?

original poster. that is , the person who started the thread.

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Nerevarine said:
For a low end GPU like r7 240, I dont see any reason why OP should go for anything more expensive than VS 450
Yes, it does have +22A rail but R7 240 will never use more than 15A, Heck, even a GTX 660 doesnt fully utilise +22A..I m running a HD 7770 on a VS450 without any problems for a year..
The only bad thing is it doesnt have 80Plus Bronze certification, but in this review, it performs quite close.. Im not a fanboy, i always recommend VP450P but why the hell would anyone spend more than 2.2k for a GPU that doesnt even need as much power..
If OP doesnt need to upgrade anytime in the future, you might wanna try VP350P also

there are many things to consider. the wattage and amperage is not enough for selecting a psu. the internal components like caps and other parts matter. the longevity of the components matter. even the rating like gold ,silver etc does not matter. what matter is the amount of ripple a psu produce at its different rails.what if a psu produce ripples above the limit even if it is 80+ bronze/gold certified??. achieving everything is difficult .

H

Nerevarine said:
For a low end GPU like r7 240, I dont see any reason why OP should go for anything more expensive than VS 450
Yes, it does have +22A rail but R7 240 will never use more than 15A, Heck, even a GTX 660 doesnt fully utilise +22A..I m running a HD 7770 on a VS450 without any problems for a year..
The only bad thing is it doesnt have 80Plus Bronze certification, but in this review, it performs quite close.. Im not a fanboy, i always recommend VP450P but why the hell would anyone spend more than 2.2k for a GPU that doesnt even need as much power..
If OP doesnt need to upgrade anytime in the future, you might wanna try VP350P also

It has 22A on both rail so effectively it is atleast 30-33A

rijinpk1 said:
original poster. that is , the person who started the thread.

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there are many things to consider. the wattage and amperage is not enough for selecting a psu. the internal components like caps and other parts matter. the longevity of the components matter. even the rating like gold ,silver etc does not matter. what matter is the amount of ripple a psu produce at its different rails.what if a psu produce ripples above the limit even if it is 80+ bronze/gold certified??. achieving everything is difficult .

you need to read the review i posted..

I quote

Pros

Excellent ripple suppression
Can deliver more than 450W
Plenty of connectors for an entry level product.
Decent soldering quality
Sleeved cables
Good looking
Affordable

The ripple was very well suppressed. In fact, below 250W load, most of the rails had single digit ripple figures. A few spikes started to show up on the 12V rail during test 4, pushing the ripple to just over 20mV, but they disappeared during subsequent tests. The 12V ripple didn’t come back up above the 20mV mark again until the overload test. On all of the other rails except for the -12V, the ripple stayed under 20mV at all times, which is an excellent result.

Anyway Im not saying this is a good PSU but when the PSU itself is about half the cost of the GPU, what do you suggest OP do ?

PS: Both CX and VS series use the same CapXon capacitors, whereas the ~~Antec VP450p uses capacitors from different manufacturers (of higher quality ofc)~~ Antec VP450p also uses CapXon

hitesh said:
It has 22A on both rail so effectively it is atleast 30-33A

vs 450 has only one rail with 34A on it. the older model with 22A(it also had a single +12v rail )has been discontinued.

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Nerevarine said:
you need to read the review i posted..

I was mentioning psus in total, not just with a single psu,ie vs 450.

I am quoting for the same review

Some of the secondary side capacitors are made by Aishi, but most are from CapXon – a brand renowned for poor quality capacitors. Even in an entry level product, it surprises me that Corsair would be brave enough to use them, as I have had to fix plenty of devices with failed CapXon capacitors which weren’t very old. Even Teapo and OST capacitors are generally considered to be more reliable than CapXon.

As i said earlier, every factors are important. having good ripples is a good thing. but how long does that sustain with the use of such poor quality caps?? the longevity cant be ensured.

another comment from the author here *forums.hardwaresecrets.com/showthread.php?threadid=64558

he performance was acceptable (although not spectacular), but the secondary side caps do worry me a bit. Knowing CapXon, they will probably just make it through the 3 year warranty period, and die shortly after.

Anyway Im not saying this is a good PSU but when the PSU itself is about half the cost of the GPU, what do you suggest OP do ?

PS: Both CX and VS series use the same CapXon capacitors, whereas the Antec VP450p uses capacitors from different manufacturers (of higher quality ofc)

yeah it is ok.psu is almost at half the rate of the gpu. but remember it is the heart of your system. which of the following will you give more importance??
1)heart
2)noo. i did not get a word here for replacing gpu

. but wont be an alternative to the option 1 either

.

i would choose the heart, and will most people, i think. it is a matter of fact which depends on some one who selects it.some compromise may have to be done.

H

rijinpk1 said:
vs 450 has only one rail with 34A on it. the older model with 22A(it also had a single +12v rail )has been discontinued.

hm didn't knew that

Even Antec VP450p also uses CapXon capacitors, the only low end PSU that doesnt use CapXon capacitors is Seasonic ones and the older VX series of Corsair an d maybe Gigabyte PSUs not sure
*wccftech.com/review/antec-vp450p-psu-review-power-on-a-budget/

The secondary stage provides power to the PC. The outputs of the transformers are rectified and filtered before being passed on. For the all important +12V +5 and +3.3V rails Schottky rectifiers are used. The capacitors on the secondary side are from various manufacturers but primarily Capxon.

and another source
*www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-VP450-Power-Supply-Review/1487/5

IMO, maintain PSU properly by proper grounding etc.. That is a very important thing that people must understand.. Im pretty positive OP will have no issues with VS450 running that GPU.. Even if he does, Corsair RMA is very good
Another cheaper option is VP350p if OP doesnt want to upgrade his stuff, but know this that VP350p and VP450p are from 2 different OEMs, read review before buying

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Another very good PSU if you can find it is Gigabyte PoweRock 400W..
It was selling on ebay a few months back for the same price as VS450.. The PSU OEM is CWT and it has got good reviews

Corsair VS450 is completely fine as I myself use VS550 and its awesome.

bavusani said:
Corsair VS450 is completely fine as I myself use VS550 and its awesome.

what awesomeness do you see there?

^ rofl, awesome man...

G

Hello bumping this thread again .. owners of VS450 [MENTION=132417]hitesh[/MENTION] [MENTION=110244]Nerevarine[/MENTION] [MENTION=57860]thetechfreak[/MENTION]

please reply regarding this VS450 compatibility with UPS i came across 2-3 reviews on amazon about the active PFC being not compatible with non pure sinewave ups ( i have apc 600va ) and resulting in pc restart when switching to battery mode during fluctuation, power cut etc.. some reported the same here as well.. 1 with vs 550

Amazon.in: Nilesh's review of

*forum.digit.in/power-supply-cabinets-mods/192326-ups-psu-apfc.html

Is this compatible with non pure sinewave ups ? i am confused ? or has there been a change in model ?

hoping for a reply
Thanks

gta5 said:
Hello bumping this thread again .. owners of VS450 @hitesh @Nerevarine @thetechfreak

please reply regarding this VS450 compatibility with UPS i came across 2-3 reviews on amazon about the active PFC being not compatible with non pure sinewave ups ( i have apc 600va ) and resulting in pc restart when switching to battery mode during fluctuation, power cut etc.. some reported the same here as well.. 1 with vs 550

Amazon.in: Nilesh's review of

*forum.digit.in/power-supply-cabinets-mods/192326-ups-psu-apfc.html

Is this compatible with non pure sinewave ups ? i am confused ? or has there been a change in model ?

hoping for a reply
Thanks

I think there is a wrong notion about sine-wave thing. If it is actually incompatible with a non-sinewave UPS then PSU would either not start at all or be very unstable i.e. it would not remain on as long as there is power after the restart. If the PSU restarts and continues to work normally then the problem is that the hold-up time of the PSU is very low.

Hold-up time is a very important PSU characteristic and represents the amount of time, usually measured in milliseconds, a PSU can maintain output regulations as defined by the ATX spec without input power. In other words, it is the amount of time the system can continue to run without shutting down or rebooting during a power interruption. The ATX specification sets the minimum hold-up time to 17 ms with the maximum continuous output load.

According to the ATX specification, PWR_OK is a "power good" signal. This signal should be asserted as high on the 5V rail by the power supply to indicate that the +12V, 5V, and 3.3V outputs are within the regulation thresholds and that sufficient mains energy is stored by the APFC converter to guarantee a system's continuous operation for at least 17 ms. Conversely, PWR_OK should be de-asserted to a low state, 0V, when any of the +12V, 5V, or 3.3V output voltages fall below the under-voltage threshold or when mains power has been removed for long enough to guarantee that a power supply isn't operating anymore. The AC loss to PWR_OK minimum hold-up time is set to 16 ms, which is less than the hold-up time described above, but the ATX specification also sets a PWR_OK inactive-to-DC loss delay that should be higher than 1 ms. This means that the AC loss to PWR_OK hold-up time should be lower than the PSU's overall hold-up time to ensure that the power supply doesn't send a power good signal once any of the +12V, 5V and 3.3V rails are out of spec

*www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/RM650i/6.html

Hold up time of Corsair VS450 is less than 10ms which is very low.
*www.corsair.com/en-in/vs-seriestm-vs450-450-watt-power-supply
Download PSU Specification Table from downloads section.

A

I am using rx 460 4gb gddr5 with i3 6100 with vs450 .....is it ok? Does my config draws a lot power?

ankitj1611 said:
I am using rx 460 4gb gddr5 with i3 6100 with vs450 .....is it ok? Does my config draws a lot power?

It does not, you are totally fine, go for a better PSU, if you need an upgrade

S

How is Corsair CX430 guys.

G

chimera201 said:
I think there is a wrong notion about sine-wave thing. If it is actually incompatible with a non-sinewave UPS then PSU would either not start at all or be very unstable i.e. it would not remain on as long as there is power after the restart. If the PSU restarts and continues to work normally then the problem is that the hold-up time of the PSU is very low.

Hold up time of Corsair VS450 is less than 10ms which is very low
VS Series™ VS450 — 450 Watt Power Supply
Download PSU Specification Table from downloads section.

Thank you very much for replying.. hmm .. but the whole cx series also has a hold up time of 10ms but cx 430 runs fine with all types of UPS ? difference of better caps ?

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ankitj1611 said:
I am using rx 460 4gb gddr5 with i3 6100 with vs450 .....is it ok? Does my config draws a lot power?

your pc won't draw more than 200-230w at full load.. Does your psu works fine with ups ?

gta5 said:
Thank you very much for replying.. hmm .. but the whole cx series also has a hold up time of 10ms but cx 430 runs fine with all types of UPS ? difference of better caps ?

Well CX do have better hold-up caps than VS series so they will last longer. And those values are from Corsair. The real values might be different. That is why I said "less than" 10ms. Unfortunately there aren't any reviews of current models of CX and VS series for credible source. Also need to see the other side, if the response time of the UPS is good enough it won't be a problem.

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sumit05 said:
How is Corsair CX430 guys.

Depends on your system specs.

Also I noticed that Corsair discontinued the older VS series models: VS350, VS450, VS550, VS650. Replaced with VS400, VS500, VS600. There must have been a lot of RMAs for the older models to get discontinued so fast :lol:

A

gta5 said:
Thank you very much for replying.. hmm .. but the whole cx series also has a hold up time of 10ms but cx 430 runs fine with all types of UPS ? difference of better caps ?

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your pc won't draw more than 200-230w at full load.. Does your psu works fine with ups ?

Oh only 200-230w???thanks... So its ok.between the gfx is sapphire oc edition 4gb 6pin connector ...

I am using a inverter and no ups.the inverter is sinewave lyminous annd no problem occurs when their is power cut.inverter picks the load of my desktop immediately

This desktop i assembled just 2 months back

G

chimera201 said:
Well CX do have better hold-up caps than VS series so they will last longer. And those values are from Corsair. The real values might be different. That is why I said "less than" 10ms. Unfortunately there aren't any reviews of current models of CX and VS series for credible source. Also need to see the other side, if the response time of the UPS is good enough it won't be a problem.

Once again thanks for the reply

The topic intrigued and is a necessity for me so i have been searching about it and came across this info, hopefully it will benefit other readers.. (Please correct me wherever there is an error , this is just collection of info from other sources .. i am not an engineer/knowledgeable person )

Corsair VS 450 employs a very low capacitance "180uf" from aishi..
Cx 430v2 uses Samxon "180uf" .. in budget builds we are only going to find these cheap caps but 180uf is a very low value for cheap caps.. higher the uf value , higher is the hold up time... aishi /samxon /capxon are ok if one is not stressing the machine but they have to be of higher uf value .. "230uf+" for good hold up times for a 400-450watt psu ..

here is the hold up time of Corsair cx 430v2 with samxon.. under 10ms

Efficiency and Hold-Up Time | bit-tech.ne

the new Cx 430 v3 known as cx430 uses a "Panasonic" "180uf" cap one of the best.. and maybe this is why they increased the price

hold up time is around 31 msec which is great.. and this explains why there have been no problems reported with this psu

Corsair Builder Series CX430 im Test: 80Plus Bronze für 40 Euro (Seite 8) - ComputerBas

so either get a good manufacturer cap or a cheap cap with higher uf value

hold up time of VS 450 must be even lower than the cx430v2 and that explains why this isn't good for some people

Now Coming to UPS part.. UPS switch time increases a lot during voltage fluctuations as compared to normal total power off/blackout ( under 8 sec for apc) .. so 1 may not experience pc reboot during a power cut but may see a lot of reboots during fluctuations , so hold up time becomes even more important here .. the only solution is to get a PSU with a higher hold up time ..

just going by brand and recommending higher watt psu is not enough an assurance of better hold up times..

For eg - Antec Vp450p is using a "270uf" capacitor and have excellent hold up times , no restart problems reported from users as well..

But it's big brother Antec VP550p is also using the same "270uf" capacitor .. which is very low for a 550 watt psu and that is reflected in hold up time of less than 10ms in the above bit tech test.. and you can find people experiencing reboots on google with ups when gaming with this psu...

Also I noticed that Corsair discontinued the older VS series models: VS350, VS450, VS550, VS650. Replaced with VS400, VS500, VS600. There must have been a lot of RMAs for the older models to get discontinued so fast

You are bang on , Vs450 must have experienced problems from lot of people regarding pc restarting and now they have changed the Primary cap to Teapo rated at "270uf" .. now there will be great hold up times and also teapo is considered a tier ever above capxon/samsxon/aishi..

Đánh giá nguồn máy tính Corsair VS400: Chỉ 400W nhưng "cân" 2 chiếc RX480

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There is no consensus regarding the next part so not sure but this is important info so posting here in hopes somebody more knowledable will come here and explain it..

1) Modified Sinewave being imcopatible for APFC is a cause of concern only to us with 240v as input and it is safe for people in Usa with 120v input.. so most likely we'll never get to hear about these problems on web because it is safe for them and they hardly use UPS

2) Most caps used by psu are rated at 400v .. even seasonic 520 has a 400v rated cap.. when there is a switch over to simulated sinewave the "inrush" voltage output by UPS ( this is for apc ) is in dangerous area of 400v for Active PFC and during this "inrush period " active pfc psu draws it's "full watt" this is what causes the humming sound/incompatibility issues and ups going into overload mode.. never ever use it for extended periods.. If the PSU unit does not have OVP or the protection fails .. this would result in a big bang

square output UPS vs. bulk capacitor voltage - Badcaps Forums
Active PFC Power Supply and NON true sine wave UPS. - jonnyGURU Forums
*forum.digit.in/hardware-q/84667-corsair-psu-query.html

---------------------------

The review posted by [MENTION=92220]rajan1311[/MENTION] regarding Antec Bp450ps shows that this non active PFC PSU uses 2 Capxon caps rated at 680uf at 250 v each .. so total 1360 uf and 500v .. this is way way way higher than any of the psu far above it's price range , i am wondering with this much capacitance it won't even require a UPS at all ? lol .. this looks like an excellent budget psu.. i hope ripples on this psu are not too bad..

*forum.digit.in/reviews/189869-antec-bp450ps-450w-power-supply-review.html

Learned members thoughts/comments ?

And i would request Moderators / PSU experts here to start a new thread on this topic and make it sticky.. there are a lot of threads on this problem and having a main thread for listing compatibility between UPS and PSU of different models based on members feedback would be really helpful for everybody.

I think Hold up time/compatibility with ups is far more important for indians than 5-10 % better efficiency.. especially for areas where there are bad power problems

Yeah it would be great if some professional actually existed in India that would explain to us how all these stuff works and test them in 230V. Sadly all the professional reviewers are from USA testing on 115V grid. And the few European reviewers write articles in their native language and are not that very professional

gta5 said:
Corsair VS 450 employs a very low capacitance "180uf" from aishi..
Cx 430v2 uses Samxon "180uf" .. in budget builds we are only going to find these cheap caps but 180uf is a very low value for cheap caps.. higher the uf value , higher is the hold up time... aishi /samxon /capxon are ok if one is not stressing the machine but they have to be of higher uf value .. "230uf+" for good hold up times for a 400-450watt psu ..

I may be wrong but I don't think uF value directly translates to Hold-up time. It is a factor but there could be something else in the circuit too.

gta5 said:
hold up time is around 31 msec which is great.. and this explains why there have been no problems reported with this psu

Corsair Builder Series CX430 im Test: 80Plus Bronze für 40 Euro (Seite 8) - ComputerBas

I have a hard time believing that it's 31ms. It can't be. It should be around 10ms according to Corsair themselves.

gta5 said:
Now Coming to UPS part.. UPS switch time increases a lot during voltage fluctuations as compared to normal total power off/blackout ( under 8 sec for apc) .. so 1 may not experience pc reboot during a power cut but may see a lot of reboots during fluctuations , so hold up time becomes even more important here .. the only solution is to get a PSU with a higher hold up time ..

If there are voltage fluctuations just use a decent voltage regulator even if the UPS manual says not to connect anything else between it and the wall socket.
The ideal setup would be:
Wall socket --> decent voltage regulator --> APC SmartUPS --> Tier 1-3 quality PSU

If you live in a city where the voltages are stable and power cuts are rare then its better not to use a UPS at all. The occasional power cut isn't going to damage the PC (with a good PSU) .

Even jonnyGURU doesn't know much about UPSes. jonnyGURU works for Corsair now

Power Supplies and many components would be coming under BIS certification. I am not sure if this would keep away substandard power supplies from India, but having a standard is something to look forward to.

G

chimera201 said:
Yeah it would be great if some professional actually existed in India that would explain to us how all these stuff works and test them in 230V. Sadly all the professional reviewers are from USA testing on 115V grid. And the few European reviewers write articles in their native language and are not that very professional

yeah i guess the tools that PSU require to properly test them cost a lot , it also doesn't help that people don't pay attention to PSU in india .. Mostly don't look beyond Watts on a PSU even many gamers..

I may be wrong but I don't think uF value directly translates to Hold-up time. It is a factor but there could be something else in the circuit too.

From what i have read and analysed uf value is the major contributor of hold up value.. i was able to find a few anomalies but by and large it is the uf values that determines Hold up times.. i think secondary caps play a smaller role here but they do influence the results though not to a large extent

Tomshardware even names the big primary cap as a "hold up cap" where it lists specs

Corsair CX650M PSU Interior Component Analysi

higher the capacitance value , higher the ability of capacitor to store power and higher the amount of stored power, longer will be the hold up times.. more stored fuel in tank , more mileage

This post is from member "Jon" taken from here

UPS fast Switching than inverter

All PC SMPS supplies have big filter capaciors at Input. These Capacitors hold charge from 25 ms to 45 ms on load of 300 to 500 watts. When the mains power goes off relay switches battery power to inverter and inverter gets on, generating its own mains supply. And this happens with in 20 to 25 ms which is much shorter than capacitors holdup time of SMPS. Hence PC has contineous supply hence PC doesnt reboot. try changing the two 3300uf capacitors of SMPS to lower value of 1000uf. and then try it with your Lineinteractive or offline UPS, your PC will surely reboot. if you use online UPS this experiment will fail as online UPS doesnt interrupt power to output and its inverter is always ON.

same thing said by a senior member "mariushm" on badcaps ..

Recapping of Corsair VS450 - Badcaps Forums

Now let us verify this info with the tests done by bit-tech.net

Efficiency and Hold-Up Time | bit-tech.ne

Antec Vp 550p - 12v - 8ms , 5v - 11 ms Cap rated at "270uf" with another 550W PSu
Antec HCG 550 - 12v - 13ms , 5v - 30ms cap rated at "390uf"

Corsair vx 430v2 - 12v - 10ms , 5v - 9ms Cap rated at "180uf" with another 430W PSU
Thermaltake 430 - 12v - 16.5ms , 5v - 17.3ms Cap rated at "330uf"

Thermaltake 530 uses the exact same cap as 430 at "330uf" - and it has less hold up time than 430w model.. the seaonic one is using a 440uf rated cap but it had less hold up time on 5v for some reason, probably because maximum alloted Amp on 5v rail less than other 2 models..

Also No/Passive PFC units generally have higher rated caps , whereas APFC usually employs lower rated caps..

CM Elite 400/460 - 560uf x 2 , Antec Bp 450 - 680uf x 2

I have a hard time believing that it's 31ms. It can't be. It should be around 10ms according to Corsair themselves.

it's better not to trust manufacturers when it comes to PSU even big brands like Cooler master lists that CM elite has OCP protection and in reality it does not.. even seasonic listed some protections and hardwaresecrets found out lacking some.. This is more so for budget PSU , as manufacturers try to cut costs.. and i think they just list these specs for the sake of listing it .. they mention standard 10 ms as a hold up time for whole of their CX series , in reality so many models cannot have the same hold up time .. i just checked 1 randomly and CX 650 has a hold up time of 17ms as tested by Tomshardware.. far above than what corsair lists..

Corsair CX650M PSU Load Testin

Models are revised Frequently and official specs are not updated

Like Corsair Cx 430 has 3 versions .. but in that sheet only 1 version is listed..

Corsair Cx 430 and Corsair Cx430v2 indeed have 10ms as they use cheap caps like Samxon rated a low capacity 180uf.. Cx 430 received a lot of backlash if you google ,

now the latest CX 430 , version 3 is using a Panasonic Cap.. This is one of the "Best/High tier" cap only found in PSU costing more than 5-6k .. and even though it is only "180uf" it is posting 30ms because it is from panasonic ... Like the difference between backup up time of local batteries vs exide batteries of same AmpH

If there are voltage fluctuations just use a decent voltage regulator even if the UPS manual says not to connect anything else between it and the wall socket.
The ideal setup would be:
Wall socket --> decent voltage regulator --> APC SmartUPS --> Tier 1-3 quality PSU

Unfortunately

this doesn't work where there are frequent fluctuations.. because standard automatic voltage stabiliser also takes some time in switching relays and regulating output if the input voltage is not constant and changes rapidly.. like going from 180v to 150v and then to 170v and back to 180v in a span of 1 second.. and this delay many times confuses UPS as it also has a voltage regulator of it's own inbuilt resulting in longer switch times and sometimes overload beep ..
as a result my pc would not restart most of the times when there was a power cut or if i pulled out the plug from wall socket directly "during steady input voltage" but it would when there were fluctuations ... i was using a crappy psu back then and didn't knew this was the culprit
after changing 3 different ups and enough frustration i just gave up and switched to laptop.. i was looking to buy a psu and then came across VS450 exhibiting the same behaviour

Servo Stabilisers though output a steady voltage , so it is not a problem with them but then they cost a lot the last time i enquired..

If you live in a city where the voltages are stable and power cuts are rare then its better not to use a UPS at all. The occasional power cut isn't going to damage the PC (with a good PSU) .
yeah

Even jonnyGURU doesn't know much about UPSes. jonnyGURU works for Corsair now

ohh didn't knew that

thanks

gta5 said:
From what i have read and analysed uf value is the major contributor of hold up value.. i was able to find a few anomalies but by and large it is the uf values that determines Hold up times.. i think secondary caps play a smaller role here but they do influence the results though not to a large extent

BWG550M PSU Interior Component Analysi
Corsair CX750M PSU Interior Component Analysi

Both have the exactly the same Hold-up cap: 1x Nichicon (400V, 390uF, 2000h @ 105°C, GG)
Bitfenix 550W 14.2ms
Corsair CX750M 9.3ms

Another example with same wattage,
SilverStone ST85F-PT PSU Interior Component Analysi
TPG-0850D-R PSU Interior Component Analysi

SilverStone Strider Platinum ST85F-PT : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 680 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 10.4ms
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G RGB 850W : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 560 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 15.68ms

So something else is at play here.

And using a voltage regulator works fine without interruption. If you have a crappy UPS and crappy PSU obviously it won't work. And if the UPS is old then the battery might need to be replaced.

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The Sorcerer said:
Power Supplies and many components would be coming under BIS certification. I am not sure if this would keep away substandard power supplies from India, but having a standard is something to look forward to.

Certifications doesn't mean much. Even 80Plus Cert doesn't really tell the quality of a PSU, just the efficiency and that too at 30 C temperature. Besides organizations can be bribed. *ahem* Maggi noodles. What we need is at-least 3 different individual professionals that review electronic products independently and make money through ads or something.

Kind of offtopic but Maggi noodles, could you elaborate in brief ?

Nerevarine said:
Kind of offtopic but Maggi noodles, could you elaborate in brief ?

How did the Health Ministry give approval to Maggi in 2011? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysi

G

chimera201 said:
BWG550M PSU Interior Component Analysi
Corsair CX750M PSU Interior Component Analysi

Both have the exactly the same Hold-up cap: 1x Nichicon (400V, 390uF, 2000h @ 105°C, GG)
Bitfenix 550W 14.2ms
Corsair CX750M 9.3ms

Another example with same wattage,
SilverStone ST85F-PT PSU Interior Component Analysi
TPG-0850D-R PSU Interior Component Analysi

SilverStone Strider Platinum ST85F-PT : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 680 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 10.4ms
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G RGB 850W : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 560 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 15.68ms

So something else is at play here.

Hey thanks again for replying ..

please don't think of it as a debate or something lol.. i am just trying to understand how these things work myself

Your first example is in line with what i said.. Cx 750m is a 750w psu vs the 550w hence less hold up times even though they both have same cap ..
like the example .. "330uf" for both Thermaltake - Thermaltake 530 ( lower ) vs Thermaltake 430 (higher ) .. 5 litre petrol will burn faster if you run your car at 100kmph , vs 5 litre of petrol will burn slower if you run your car at 50kmph all other things being constant

second example i am not sure what's at play here.. the results aren't divided in 12v vs 5v .. as the allotment of amps (watts ) on 5v are different for both
if you check the breakup of both .. the main one .. which is
Ac loss to "Power ok" is roughly the same for both and it is infact higher for silverstone..
12.8s vs 11.8s
The main results are different because the second value is in minus seconds ( ? )

ofcourse other things like "Secondary Capacitors" that aren't visible in pics must also play a major part and to a lesser extent circuitry..
but if you are approximating results .. the Major factor is "Primary cap" otherwise why would tom's call this as HOLD UP CAP ?

like i said before i was able to find a few weird cases myself but out of 8-9 cases that i checked 6-7 cases were behaving in line with uf values.. and then the main thing - explanations given by many old timer knowledgeable people at various technical forums

And using a voltage regulator works fine without interruption. If you have a crappy UPS and crappy PSU obviously it won't work. And if the UPS is old then the battery might need to be replaced.

I had tried this with top 2 UPS - APC and Microtek ( top in indian brands ) .. both brand new purchased by me .. even tested on 0 load, no monitor etc..
on steady input pc would only restart 1-2 out of 10 times .. but on fluctuations it would restart 6-7 out of 10 times with a good heavy stabiliser installed at mains that takes input from as low as 90v... maximum available in market

the psu was ofcourse crappy but then corsair vs450 seems to be exhibiting the same behaviour of low hold up times

Amazon.in:

Nilesh's review of

*www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2276139/restarts-ups-backup-mode.html

*www.flipkart.com/reviews/f9bc41ea-16f8-4948-aea9-f06154b08d25

and a few other same reviews at various other places i read..

Thanks once again

gta5 said:
The main results are different because the second value is in minus seconds ( ? )

The power-good signal lasts longer than the hold-up time, meaning it drops when the rails are already out of spec. Which is bad.

gta5 said:
I had tried this with top 2 UPS - APC and Microtek ( top in indian brands ) .. both brand new purchased by me .. even tested on 0 load, no monitor etc..
on steady input pc would only restart 1-2 out of 10 times .. but on fluctuations it would restart 6-7 out of 10 times with a good heavy stabiliser installed at mains that takes input from as low as 90v... maximum available in market

the psu was ofcourse crappy but then corsair vs450 seems to be exhibiting the same behaviour of low hold up times

You did not mention your PSU. And nobody is going to suggest you Corsair VS series here or on any decent hardware forum. Heck on tomshardware forum the senior members will never suggest you to get CX series. Corsair VS series is the lowest quality series in entire Corsair's lineup. There are about 10 series above it. Good quality PSUs are expensive.

S

chimera201 said:
The power-good signal lasts longer than the hold-up time, meaning it drops when the rails are already out of spec. Which is bad.

You did not mention your PSU. And nobody is going to suggest you Corsair VS series here or on any decent hardware forum. Heck on tomshardware forum the senior members will never suggest you to get CX series. Corsair VS series is the lowest quality series in entire Corsair's lineup. There are about 10 series above it. Good quality PSUs are expensive.

Why TH member won't suggest CX??

sumit05 said:
Why TH member won't suggest CX??

Most of the members are Americans or Europeans. Their standards are higher.

chimera201 said:
Certifications doesn't mean much. Even 80Plus Cert doesn't really tell the quality of a PSU, just the efficiency and that too at 30 C temperature. Besides organizations can be bribed. *ahem* Maggi noodles. What we need is at-least 3 different individual professionals that review electronic products independently and make money through ads or something.

Unlikely. BIS certification worked like a charm for pre-built PCs and notebooks. Its only smaller than HP, Dell, etc. companies had tough time. Major companies are not going to bother with bribing since they get a retail unit well in advance and get it approved just in time for release date + they have to meet other international standards which usually passes off with flying colours. The part that DIY components earn money usually stays with the distributor while expenses+ salaries are paid from main HQ. Distributors are not going to pay bribes out of their pocket and neither will the main HQ. less profits in sales and marketing + ad cost prevents them. Can't say the same for other electronics for BIS certification but it should be all good for desktop components and prebuilt systems. OWC that makes components for MAC confirmed the same as well.

G

chimera201 said:
The power-good signal lasts longer than the hold-up time, meaning it drops when the rails are already out of spec. Which is bad.

then that means there is something wrong with that particular PSU ..

anyways i found this article from the manufacturer themselves and this finally settles the uncertainty/doubt

The Importance of Hold Up Time – FSP GROU

gta5 said:
then that means there is something wrong with that particular PSU ..

anyways i found this article from the manufacturer themselves and this finally settles the uncertainty/doubt

The Importance of Hold Up Time – FSP GROU

There wasn't anything uncertain about hold-up time. The thing that is uncertain is whether non true sinewave input damages a PSU over time.

And that PSU just didn't account for the hold-up time signal accuracy to cut costs.

G

chimera201 said:
There wasn't anything uncertain about hold-up time. The thing that is uncertain is whether non true sinewave input damages a PSU over time.

if it was certain then why in last pages we were discussing about primary cap and Uf values in relation to hold up time ?
that article clarifies that the Hold up time is majorly dependent on the bulk cap whereas you were saying it's not

Regarding second question whether Non sinewave UPS damages the PSU or not .. this will never be clear conclusively i guess ..

gta5 said:
if it was certain then why in last pages we were discussing about primary cap and Uf values in relation to hold up time ?
that article clarifies that the Hold up time is majorly dependent on the bulk cap whereas you were saying it's not

I never said it wasn't dependent on bulk caps. I said there may be more factors associated with it. The article is just trying to explain in layman's terms for the average customer, it doesn't go in depth.

Sharing a weird experience i had recently with the VS 450.
I bought this PSU in June 2013 for the rig below. Didn't knew much about people saying it was crap or the whole VS series back then.
A week back i turned on my PC, all normal loading, windows started fine and everything. couple of minutes into using the PC, it turned off all of a sudden. I was like WTH, started again, checked CPU/GPU temps, all fine and then same thing. third time restart went to BIOS, did a fail safe defaults (was overclocked), and again shut down. Now opened the cabinet, looked fine, no smell thinking something shorted or burned out. Checked the PSU and it was hot, thought that what i feared of all the crap i have heard about this PSU had finally come true.
Started the PC again with cabinet open, all fans were running, CPU, GPU and 2 system fans but not the PSU fan. Now i do clean my cabinet regularly so thought it can't be blocked or something. But it wasn't, took a pen to give it a push and viola it was rotating again. Since then its been working good so far. Seems like a one off situation maybe

true_lies said:
But it wasn't, took a pen to give it a push and viola it was rotating again. Since then its been working good so far. Seems like a one off situation maybe

To be fair it can happen with any power supply. I am not sure if these use ball bearing or sleeve ones. Its best to RMA it, saying that the fan is not spinning. Once the case is closed with such a PSU there's no telling what would happen. Brownie points to you for narrowing down the issue closely!

I have been using VS450 for a nice build (specs in my signature), game continuously for hours and didn't face any issues till now. Its been only 5 months though, but I personally think its a VFM product.

G

true_lies said:
Sharing a weird experience i had recently with the VS 450.
I bought this PSU in June 2013 for the rig below. Didn't knew much about people saying it was crap or the whole VS series back then.
A week back i turned on my PC, all normal loading, windows started fine and everything. couple of minutes into using the PC, it turned off all of a sudden. I was like WTH, started again, checked CPU/GPU temps, all fine and then same thing. third time restart went to BIOS, did a fail safe defaults (was overclocked), and again shut down. Now opened the cabinet, looked fine, no smell thinking something shorted or burned out. Checked the PSU and it was hot, thought that what i feared of all the crap i have heard about this PSU had finally come true.
Started the PC again with cabinet open, all fans were running, CPU, GPU and 2 system fans but not the PSU fan. Now i do clean my cabinet regularly so thought it can't be blocked or something. But it wasn't, took a pen to give it a push and viola it was rotating again. Since then its been working good so far. Seems like a one off situation maybe

Corsair VS450 was fine for your build with HD5670 , this is why it has been working good for 4 years .. the only reason it is considered bad is because it uses cheap capacitors , which degrade fast over time .. So it only affects "longevity" otherwise VS450 is a good budget unit.. they usually start to become problematic after warranty period ( 3-4 years ) expires

In your case it was the issue with sleeve bearing fan .. which is pretty common and widely used with other budget PSU .. and is prone to early failure , so not specific to this unit.. and it didn't even failed fully , just got jammed , could have happened with a good PSU having sleeve bearing fan as well..

but it would be better if you replace that PSU now after 4 years of service.. , the PSU may be functional , but you never know by now , if the capacitor is filtering the ripple properly or not , a high ripple is damaging to components.. and when this PSU eventually fails it might either die a peaceful death , or take other components with it .. even some of the good PSU's may take components with them when they fail ..

Though in corsair Vs450 favour ... i have heard 3-4 cases when the VS450 died it didn't kill other components ..
[MENTION=119688]true_lies[/MENTION] and [MENTION=273753]vineetSharma[/MENTION] any of using UPS with VS450 and is it working good ?

If yes can you please post your UPS models in this thread

*forum.digit.in/power-supply-cabine...ive-pfc-power-supply-compatibility-table.html

Thanks