CPU Config - Need Advice

Why do you want to run half life @100fps???You should go for a quad if you're looking for multitasking.
Intel doesn't offer a quad at that price range so forget about the quad but the sandy bridge i3 which is about to release in a week is an excellent cpu.But it wont be as cheap as the AMD X4

Crossair/Transcend DDR3 1333 RAM 2GB - Est 2.7k

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You will get Corsair 2GB memory for just 1.2K.
What's your budget?

AMD Athlon II X4 640 is better than an Intel core 2 duo E6550 right? Thats enough for me.

I want to run CS at 100 FPS, not HL. But its important. There is a difference i play when i lay at the normal 60 fps and when i increase it to 100 fps.

Even am not sure on the reason behind it.. but my current config is able to do that. It has a Core2Duo E6550 and a XFX 9400 GT 512mb gfx card.

Thanks for the price update on RAMs.. Dont know why online listings give 2x price on rams.

Trying to keep budget at lowest.
Also want to buy a Flat screen monitor. Atleast 21"

Specify ur budget inc monitor.

And AMD Athlon II x4 640 is better than core i3 2100.

And AMD Athlon II x4 640 is better than core i3 2100.

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Again...
It's not when it comes to gaming and photoshop operations.

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4083/35024.png

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4083/35038.png
*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4083/35050.png

For complete results, go here

thats 6 seconds saved in photoshop and not 6 hours.

now here is a quote from anandtech -

In these heavily threaded situations, AMD's Athlon II X4 645 is a better option than the 2100.

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see that you might get some more fps in games, in this case 6. do you think it will be noticeable?

in other one its 15. but for how long. given that everything is slowly becoming multithreaded that 15 fps in future will shift opposite.! new games like crysis 2 will be optimised for more cores.

and you cant overclock that i3!! stuck!

so x4 is much more futureproof.

Yup x4 is the better option than i3 2100. The latter is a dual core and everything is becoming multithreaded fast including games.

Consider the present first and then the future.OK?Games in the future will need a better graphics card too.Why don't you recommend something like GTX470?


And let me remind you that i3 comes with hyper threading technology.It has 2 virtual cores+2 real cores. So it's not a simple dual core like the core 2 duo. It's much more than that.
Vicky,you praise SB in all your posts and when it comes dual cores,you straight away turn your head.It's not the no.of cores that decide the performance of a CPU.

Dextor,use your common sense and decide.These guys are talking about the future always.What's the point in buying something that is useful in the future but not in the present? Gaming performance is decided by the GPU most of the times not the CPU.

Many of the multithreaded applications still don't show much of a performance boost when more than 2 cores are used.Trust me.It has 2real+2virtual cores.It's not equal to 4 real cores but almost equal to it.So if you need pure multitasking Quad is definitely the best option.

The_Man, be polite buddy....if you have different suggestion thens say it with proper data point, don't just start forcing the OP by saying other guys don't have common sense.
What you've said is partially correct..Obviously the number of cores are not indicating the higher performance and Sandy bridge architecture is superior to all the AMD line ups.
Now in your other post in intel sandy bridge or amd?, I have put some points in the end also. Probably you did not have a look at it. So again posting the same thing here.
Tomshardware does also have 2 articles, CPU/GPU bottleneck story. muticore CPU also reduces the chance of bottleneck of GPU.
Read the part 1 and part 2.
It clearly says that in current generation games a Tripple core is required in more than 90% cases to avoid bottleneck when paired with a decent set of cards. So don't you think all games that will be released within 1 years need more CPU cores?
And it is not any distant future games. Games with 4 to 8 core optimizations are already in the market. Crysis 2 is the perfect example of it. Battle Field Bad Company 2 is the pioneer in this field and if you put a high end card, simply for avoiding GPU bottleneck a quad core is required.
And any currently available multi-threaded applications like Handbrake (video encoding), Antivirus scan etc have already shown the benifit of 4 physical cores over 4 logical cores..check any review.
You are basically putting all the points which only supports your point and hiding all the other points.
And not only Vicky, but all the other members have praised Sandy bridge for the raw performance they offer, but here our comparison is not by the whole series but with the specific model to model comparison.

Errr btw i am DeXt0R... That account is not activated yet after i changed emails... Took almost 24 hours for the 1st reactivation mail to come... till then i had reactivated like 3-4 times... So still waiting for the last link to show up...

The_Man's suggestions makes sense...

I have applications right now that only use my Core 0 of my Core2Due E6550 (2.33 ghz).... So technically the application gets only around 1.2 GHz...


So if AMD Athlon II X4 640 is 3Ghz and has 4 cores... That means this application i am talking about will only get around 750 MHz?

Correct me if am wrong.

^^its completely wrong.

all cores function at available mentioned speed.

The_Man said:

Consider the present first and then the future.OK?Games in the future will need a better graphics card too.Why don't you recommend something like GTX470?

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that 470 is crap hot card. 6870 is better option. and 6950 1gb and GTX 560 are much much much better at almost same price. consider price, power consumtion, raw power. and from where has a gpu come up in this cpu discussion?

And let me remind you that i3 comes with hyper threading technology.It has 2 virtual cores+2 real cores. So it's not a simple dual core like the core 2 duo. It's much more than that.
Vicky,you praise SB in all your posts and when it comes dual cores,you straight away turn your head.It's not the no.of cores that decide the performance of a CPU.

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we all know not only cores matter. we need to consider everything. 4 actual cores are better than 2 cores with HT..

its not a fanboy game going on! that we need to favour a company.

Dextor,use your common sense and decide.These guys are talking about the future always.What's the point in buying something that is useful in the future but not in the present? Gaming performance is decided by the GPU most of the times not the CPU.

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then go and get a sempron or celeron and combine it with a 580. then tell what decided gaming performance and what not! it needs to be best balance. and that future is not far away. crysis 2 will be here soon and you will see the lot of changes within this year AFAIK!

Many of the multithreaded applications still don't show much of a performance boost when more than 2 cores are used.Trust me.It has 2real+2virtual cores.It's not equal to 4 real cores but almost equal to it.So if you need pure multitasking Quad is definitely the best option.

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give a link prooving 4 real cores = 2 cores+ht. and consider heavily threaded apps and not those singled cored.

Jaskanwar Singh said:

^^its completely wrong.
all cores function at available mentioned speed.

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>.> you must be kidding... as far as i know each core operates at specific speed which adds up to 3Ghz incase of AMD Athlon II X4 640...

If each core runs at 3GHz then woudnt it be a 12 GHz processor? duh~


Also i was talking in terms of applications that were not built to run on multicore processors...

Single threaded applications will highly favour the i3 2100 but multihreaded apps will favour x4 640. Since everything is going the multithreaded way, x4 640 is still a good solution. Had i3 2100 been cheaper, then it would have been recommended. But its expensive than 640 now and is slower in multithreaded applications.

Yes. 2100 cores are more powerful than 640 but the numbers game play here and 640 trumps 2100 in multithreaded apps. So we still recommend x4 640 instead of an i3 2100.

But its totally different in i5's and i7's of sandybridge which beats amd's current x6's even in heavy multithreaded apps. Future sandybridge and upcoming amd bulldozer based cpu's will have 6-8 physical cores along with smt.

So the future is definitely more cores.

Thanks for trying to help out but one of my requirement was running counterstrike at 100FPS with the possible need of a graphic card...

Counter-Strike only uses 100% of core 1... It was not build for multi core processors...

Again am not looking for a future proof PC..
Will AMD Athlon II X4 640 be able to run Counterstrike at 100 FPS just using one core?

If it is not able to then i need a cheap card under 2,500 like my current XFX GT 9400 GT 512 MB. which is able to run Counter strike at 100 FPS? Card should be supported by the motherboard [Asus M4A78LT-M-LE 8GB DDR3 AMD Motherboard] Of course...

Please dont make guesses or assumptions...

fartya2003 said:

>.> you must be kidding... as far as i know each core operates at specific speed which adds up to 3Ghz incase of AMD Athlon II X4 640...

If each core runs at 3GHz then woudnt it be a 12 GHz processor? duh~


Also i was talking in terms of applications that were not built to run on multicore processors...

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then what you know is completely wrong. each core runs at 3ghz. this doesnt mean 12ghz for the processor. and this doesnt meen speed is divided!

this means if a program is threaded different cores can execute multiple threads at same time. means cores will work at 3ghz and execute ithe multiptle threads faster.

you must have enabled power saver mode in windows 7 which reduces the clock speed like for example in phenom 955 it is reduces to 800mhz when processor is at idle. use balanced mode.

Ok.. even though i was wrong at that part, it still does not change the fact that Counter strike 1.6 (not source) will only use one of the cores to run... As it was not built for multi core systems

Jas is right. Clock speed is the speed at which a microprocessor executes a program thread. In a superscalar processor, each core is assigned the same clock rate and in athlon x4's case, 3ghz and it completes the task at that speed.

The cpu throughput in a superscalar processor is achieved by parallelism (instruction level).

In counterstrike's case, my i5 750 locks it at 72 fps which is extremely fast and responsive. Amdx4 should also do a similar job.

My Dual core gets 70 fps (40 in crowd) in CS 1.6 with an Intel onboard.

Ishu Gupta said:

My Dual core gets 70 fps (40 in crowd) in CS 1.6 with an Intel onboard.

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Guess i'll have to buy a card then...

I have a Core2Duo right now, E6550 2.33 Ghz.... And XFX 9400 GT... So if i put a similar graphic card in with Asus M4A78LT-M-LE 8GB DDR3 AMD Motherboard it will be able to run CS 1.6 at 100 FPS sure right?

Will 9400 GT run on this motherboard? Or is there a better card available under or a bit above Rs 2.5k?

Can also suggest in 3.5k range..

Also can anyone update me on the current price of XFX 9600 GT and 9400 GT graphic cards in lamington road, mumbai?

^^ I don't understand why are you after 100fps. My cpu and radeon 5750 locks everything at 72 and its blazing fast at those frames. A 100 won't make any difference.

vickybat said:

^^ I don't understand why are you after 100fps. My cpu and radeon 5750 locks everything at 72 and its blazing fast at those frames. A 100 won't make any difference.

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@vicky absolutely true man.

@dext0r game playability is not hampered at even 40 fps...
you will NOT notice anything different at 70...
my cpu and onboard runs quake 3 arena at 125 fps at med-high settings 1024x768 and trust me i don't feel unplayable when my nfsmw runs at 40 fps at lowest settings

GauravTensor said:

@vicky absolutely true man.

@dext0r game playability is not hampered at even 40 fps...
you will NOT notice anything different at 70...
my cpu and onboard runs quake 3 arena at 125 fps at med-high settings 1024x768 and trust me i don't feel unplayable when my nfsmw runs at 40 fps at lowest settings

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*sigh* its not about other games.. only counter strike... I know its even playable at 30 fps...

But here is the thing... In counter strike 100 FPS does help with the gameplay... (gameplay and a game being 'playable' are two different things)

At 100 FPS and good concentration you can actually see where the bullet spray from a M16 or AK-47 is going...

Thank god you guys didnt give me the BS that eyes can only see upto 30 fps...
How many FPS human eye can see - Whisper's Wiki
Answers.com - How many frames per second can your eyes see



So again... Back to my real requirement... I need a card like the xfx gt 9400 that will be able to run on this motherboard...

Also if possible please update me on the price of 9400 GT and 9600 GT at lamington road...

Talking about 100 FPS i also need a flat screen 21" (think there is a 21.5 and not 21) or 22" lcd that has atleast 100 Hz... (mosty 120 Hz.. Not sure if there is a 100 Hz available)

P.S. Also note that i need 100Hz+ refresh rate at atleast 1600x900 resolution...

Not like my current monitor LG FLATRON W2043T that says it has a max refresh rate of 75 Hz but at the max resolution of 1600x900 it only gives me 60Hz

^^ They are old and obsolete now. Try amd 5670 or 5570. They have exceptional low power requirements and offer performance of a 9800gt and 9600gt respectively.

From nvidia'a camp, take a look at gt 240, or wait for gt 530.

The mother board i have specified has PCI-E 2.0 x16 Slot...
Theitdepot - Asus M4A78LT-M-LE 8GB DDR3 AMD Motherboard


The 5570 is PCI-E 2.1 interface...
ATI Radeon HD 5570 Price in India - ATI Radeon 5570 Price - DirectX 11 Graphics Card

can you suggest another motherboard without onboard graphic card that has 2.1 pci-e slot and will support rest of the hardware vicky?

fartya2003 said:

The mother board i have specified has PCI-E 2.0 x16 Slot...
Theitdepot - Asus M4A78LT-M-LE 8GB DDR3 AMD Motherboard


The 5570 is PCI-E 2.1 interface...
ATI Radeon HD 5570 Price in India - ATI Radeon 5570 Price - DirectX 11 Graphics Card

can you suggest another motherboard without onboard graphic card that has 2.1 pci-e slot and will support rest of the hardware vicky?

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it doesnt matter. i doubt that card is REALLY pci-ex16 2.1 interface card. the manufacturer just put that in its tag or whatever.

and no need to worry about compatibility. gfx cards are pci-ex16 backward compatible.
a pci-ex16 2.x version card is compatible with even a pci-ex16 1.x mobo.
the main difference in pci-ex16 1.x and 2.x is only twice the bandwidth.

and as for 5570, i think its better not to buy a card if you're gonna go with it.

GauravTensor said:

it doesnt matter. i doubt that card is REALLY pci-ex16 2.1 interface card. the manufacturer just put that in its tag or whatever.

and no need to worry about compatibility. gfx cards are pci-ex16 backward compatible.
a pci-ex16 2.x version card is compatible with even a pci-ex16 1.x mobo.
the main difference in pci-ex16 1.x and 2.x is only twice the bandwidth.

and as for 5570, i think its better not to buy a card if you're gonna go with it.

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5570 is no good? why?
Am only looking forward to be able to play CS at max fps on it...

Err sorry for the double post but want to bump the topic up again...

AMD Athlon II X4 640 - Est 4.5k
Asus M4A78LT-M-LE 8GB DDR3 AMD Motherboard - Est 2.5k
ATI Radeon HD 5570
Crossair/Transcend DDR3 1333 RAM 2GB - Est 2.7k
Coolermaster Elite 310 - Est 1.5k
(COOLER MASTER Elite RC-310-RKN1-GP Mid Tower)
WD Caviar Blue 500GB - Est 2.5k


Can someone suggest an atleast 21" Flatscreen LCD with 100 Hz or above Refresh rate? (probably 120 Hz)?

Looking for the cheapest option available.

^^ samsung 2233rz @ 18k

AMD Athlon II x4 640 @ 4.6k
Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H @ 4k
Corsair VS2GB1333D3 2GB @ 1.1k
Sapphire HD5670 512MB GDDR5 @ 4.5k
Seagate 500GB 7200.12 @ 1.7k
FSP saga II 350W @ 1.5k
Zebronics Bijli w/o psu @ 1k

Total - 18.4k

you need a psu also. spend on a good motherboard. and that card is worth it.

^^ +1 for the above config. Also a good ups must be added to the above config for better protection against power outage. Something like an APC 600va @ 1.7k will do a great job.

Try the elite 310 cabby @ 1.5k. A bit sturdy than bizli and has better build quality.

Rest of the system is fine.

@Jaskanwar Singh
FSP saga II 350W can handle all that hardware?
Dunno just making sure... mostly people suggest 450W

^^easily.

fartya2003 said:

Dunno just making sure... mostly people suggest 450W

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yup, they might but in your case 350w is enough

But don't go and make the mistake of getting 500w PSUs for Rs. 800. Those are El Cheapo PSUs and complete crap. Also avoid Intex, iBall, Frontech, Cooler Master PSUs at all costs.

^^ cooler master extreme series are bad. But their real power and silent pro models are pretty good imo.

cpu config is ok now...

is there no monitor with 120 Hz refresh rate under 10k?

^^No. min - 17-18k.

vickybat said:

^^ cooler master extreme series are bad. But their real power and silent pro models are pretty good imo.

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Point is, only Cooler Master Extreme Power is available everywhere. Even if you'll go and ask Real Power, the shopkeeper will actually give you Extreme Power. I simply say to avoid CM, that fixes up everything.

If someone says "I got 500w CM PSU." 95% I can tell you he has some Extreme Power model.

I just prefer to put CM out of the equation. That's it.

^^ Okay i get your point. But the way i see it things are a bit different now. Cm has released newer gx series psu's and now they are available readily. Atleast in my place, the distributors of cm are abacus peripherals( same guys who deal sparkle cards).

I had visited them a month ago and they had good knowledge on psu brandings and easily distinguished between extreme, gx , real and silent pro models. They said they can provide any model no. Same goes with cabinets.

So i think this should be the case throughout india now. What say buddy?

vickybat said:

^^ cooler master extreme series are bad. But their real power and silent pro models are pretty good imo.

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Seasonic, Corsair, Tagan cost same (or little more) & is much better. the Gold series from CM is good though. it cost a premium but its worth (got the crazy 3way SLI/4way Xfire guys).

ico said:

Point is, only Cooler Master Extreme Power is available everywhere. Even if you'll go and ask Real Power, the shopkeeper will actually give you Extreme Power. I simply say to avoid CM, that fixes up everything.

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i feel bad for those peoples who give out ~3k for a crap CM Extreme PSU but actually its a marketing strategy. whereas Corsair won't give anything over 400W, CM are offering 100W more. so most simply go for the highest rated PSU & just put the PC on a ticking timebomb.

ico said:

If someone says "I got 500w CM PSU." 95% I can tell you he has some Extreme Power model.

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99%.

vickybat said:

I had visited them a month ago and they had good knowledge on psu brandings and easily distinguished between extreme, gx , real and silent pro models. They said they can provide any model no. Same goes with cabinets.

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suppose you don't know that CM makes good as well as bad PSU. so if you go there asking for a Cooler Master PSU (with a proud smile, for buying a PSU from a International brand), do you think they'll correct you & ask you to buy a GX PSU? or silent pro? i bet they'll send you home with a Extreme Power (with a proud smile, for being able to fool/cheat another one).

cm gx are also crappy. our baba's gx550 gone bust.

I think the availablity of cm extreme has ceased to some extent. They have gx psu's readily and i think they are reliable enough to power mid ranged gpu's. See in my place, there are no corsair,tagan or seasonic etc. available.

People are a bit reluctant to order online and they buy crappy iball, zebronics and frontech psu's. So coolermaster gives these customers great choices. Apart from coolermaster, antec is also available in BBSR. But their psu's are pretty expensive here and only people with a 5k+ budget for psu's buy them and most of them don't even know about antec.

So people opting for iball, zebronics psu's etc can happily live with cm gx psu's. But their real and silent pro psu's are comparable with corsair , seasonic , antec etc.

^^

Cooler Master GX 750 W looks like a good option for users looking for a mainstream 750 W power supply, however it has a major flaw that prevents us from recommending it: noise level at +3.3 V and +5VSB outputs were above the maximum allowed when we pulled 600 W and above from this unit. High noise levels overload and can even damage components on your computer.

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Cooler Master GX 750 W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

The Good:
appearance
enough cabling to handle anything a 750W unit can power
somewhat shallow depth

The Bad:
cannot handle heat at 750 watts
ripple issues on the 3.3V rail
questionable capacitor quality

The Mediocre:
voltage regulation

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Coolermaster GX-750 750W Review

and our baba had to rma his mobo twice. and finally a psu change.

^^ What about their real power and silent pro series? Do they have similar issues?

Btw for a 750w psu, no one will turn away from corsair, seasonic, antec, tagan etc. for cm gx 750. But they can handle midrange gpu's without breaking any sweat. ISN'T IT? How about their gx 550?

ya their silent pros and real power are very good.

baba's gx550 went bust without a gpu

and everyone going for mig range like 6950 or 560ti have budget for a good psu. (exceptions are always their)

^^agreed. So a big NO to GX series right?

ya ya. anyways vicky any info on seasonic x ?

^^ Nope no info yet. They are 80+ gold rated and looks desirable.

Check this for a complete list of psu's. Nothing more is required apart from them imo.

thanks.

Seasonic X eries is very good. X650W Gold can handle GTX580 SLI easily.

They cost a lot though (10k+).

Err anyone knows contact details for Computer Selection or any other good store from lamington road?

Tried searching and calling to numbers available on net.. No one picking up.

AMD Athlon II x4 640 @ 4.6k
Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H @ 4k
Corsair VS2GB1333D3 2GB @ 1.1k
Sapphire HD5670 512MB GDDR5 @ 4.5k
Seagate 500GB 7200.12 @ 1.7k
FSP saga II 350W @ 1.5k - (?.?)
Zebronics Bijli w/o psu @ 1k

Will this PSU/SMPS work if i plan to use 4gb ram in total? 2GB x 2?