Do UFOs/Aliens exist, is Time Travel possible and more...

S

Do u think UFOs exist? i started thinking of it when i saw this video, its so real.
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ywcyqvRmU

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

DeSmOnD dAvId said:
Before seeing the video, ask yourself a few questions:
-Why do UFOs be seen only in other parts of the world and not in India?
-How can some intellingent being several lightyears away com to contact us?

i have a question to ask:
- How many Indians know WHAT IS AN UFO? ask - not yourself, your neighbour.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

nope.if they exsisted they mujhe to koi mil jata.i would have been the next KRRISH.no jaadu waadu dude.

S

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

but the movie was so real

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Yes i believe they exist. May be Their technology is advanced(a lot) than ours

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Sure they do exist ... Ravan used to ride one .... they called it the Pushpak then ....

Well when we something unexplainable in india we call it Ghost ... when they see it in US they call it Alien ... simple ...

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

YUP they exist......but if anyone wants proof then sorry.....as no one can give proof if GOD exists....

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Well, i do believe in UFO's. Wether they exist or not, I can't say.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

shashank_digitreader said:
Do u think UFOs exist? i started thinking of it when i saw this video, its so real.
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ywcyqvRmU

Fake !

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Existance of UFO's depends upon the existance of the one who created UFO.

There are millions of stars in the Universe. That means there are so that many solar systems in the Universe. And each solar system has got 'n' number of Planets. So you have millions of Planets in our Universe.

Now among those million planets, question arises as to how many are earth like planets. It's not that hard to calculate. Simple proability reveals, out of those million Planets, let's assume that there are 30,000 earth like planets. Earth like planets means which can support life.

Now out of those 30,000 earth like planets,there is always a chance of alteast 6000 planets supporting Life.

That doesn't end there..

Not every Planet of those 6000 will support Intelligent life. Some may be just be simple life forms like Unicellular organisms.

So out of those 6000 planets, there is always a probability of around 3000 planets supporting Intelligent life! Level of Intelligence life may vary abruptly.
Some may be 'Human-like' and some like those shown in our movies!

There is always a proability that any of these Super-intelligent life forms may technology which we just can't imagine!

Humans totally depend on propulsion technology for achieving motion in air. Aliens may have found out a method of creating it own gravitational force along its flying object!! Nothng is impossible. Humans may also do it one day.
Who believed a thing like 'Aircraft' will exist on earth? No one imagined earlier! But now it's the fact.

One can't ignore the mere existence of UFO's. Now it's a matter of time when they visit earth.. or... HOLD ON........................
ARE THEY ALREADY HERE?!? :twisted:

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

There are 20 Billions galaxies and each galaxy has 20 Billions of stars.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

i do believe they exist i have heard and seen (in tv

)about it ill post about it in few min

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

azzu said:
i do believe they exist i have heard and seen (in tv )about it ill post about it in few min

In US, many people say that they have seen aliens and keep on complaining they are 'abducted'! I wonder what aliens do after abducting?

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

tech_mastermind said:
There are 20 Billions galaxies and each galaxies have 20 Billions of stars.

A little correction: There are 'billions' of galaxies within a range of 14 billions light-years from us, and there are 'trillions' of stars in any given galaxy.

The Universe is so vast, even the speed of light means nothing.

C

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I agree with kiran.rkk . I too believe that there are lots more intelligent creatures in the universe. But Its impossible to travel this far. Even our nearest star is about 400 light years away. So it would take 400 years even if you travel at the speed of light (which is impossible) to reach earth.

And regarding these UFOs, those are jus advanced aircrafts tested by US military. They keep em secret. Alien thingy is jus to cover up those.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

DeSmOnD dAvId said:
Why do UFOs be seen only in other parts of the world and not in India?

Perhaps this might interest you: Click

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

kiran.rkk said:
In US, many people say that they have seen aliens and keep on complaining they are 'abducted'! I wonder what aliens do after abducting?

aliens hushy mushy with them.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

i believe in ufo's

if humans were able to build space crafts then why cant aliens buit one ......

C

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I think you have little knowledge about the universe. There are better technologies SEVERAL LIGHT YEARS away.
Earthlings can go to jupiter or at most pluto. Its our solar system man, there is no life form other than in earth for our solar system.

Earthlings going to jupiter and becoming UFO's to whom? the rocks??

You should travel a minimum 400 light years ( hope you know what a light year is ) to find a life form. Same for aliens to reach us.

Distance matters buddy.
__________
@mediator. Its in your thread, UFO's are just "telepathic hypnosis" or Military operations.
NO ALIENS

S

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

yaaaak!!
check this out, so scary!
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLmhGb4ZdZo

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqI6jJ8H2qc

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

hi dude,
well done..!!
UFO sitings r very common..but unfortunately "not in India " !

Bless ya

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

mail2and said:
To the believers: If you believe in god, please don't force your views on others

To the non-believers: Learn to respect people's views.

Thats all I want to say.... A similar controversy exists in GHOSTS case too...
Those who want to believe will believe it. Since both side (believers and non-believers) havent SEEN the things through their EYES, I think debating on opposite sides is waste, coz nobody will let their beliefs down. If both people are believers then the fun in sharing facts is different.

Now to the Original Question:
Why do UFOs be seen only in other parts of the world and not in India?

I have observed in many cases, UFOs show up near Calm,quiet areas...far from urban areas.. In America most of the people know about the things called UFO ... But assume a similar condition in India. Suppose such things appear in a remote village, then what do they might think... GOD has come to visit their village...They simply might PRAY TO THE UFO[GOD] on seeing in the sky. Forget about reporting to the media... Even they do not have TVs at their homes. Its my opinion.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I believe in UFOs but I also think that their operators are smart enuf never to be seen or recognized so even though UFOs exist wat we encounter is genrally man made.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I thk they exist!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

well even if UFOs dont exist, there have been many superb movies based on UFOs...............

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Thread closed.

Yamaraj, mediator - grow up.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Thread reopened: first person to abuse gets perm ban. This thread was interesting until 2 people took it over in a fight. Ignore them all of you and here's a link you might like

*www.ufoindia.org/sightings.htm

Oh and I've seen UFOs at Bandstand Bandra, along with about 200 other people. You know what? In india i dont think people care for UFOs. They're just some lights in the sky, which go away in a few seconds. Then we're back to our lives. Also, we're not as camera happy as the west. Those of us with cameras seem to be more interested in scandal MMSes than UFOs!

Look at the average westerner, and find the ratio of people with camcorders to those without, and then do the same in India... also, when was the last time you sat on a terrace on a dark night and looked up at the stars looking for signs of life "out there". A lot more people in the west do this than here in india.

Raaabo

M

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

One thing that makes me feel that UFO sitings are a hoax. If they are so smart and intelligent enough to travel through space, by overtaking time, they have to be inqusitive. IMO, intelligence and inquisitiveness go hand in hand.
So, if they're really inquisitive they should be trying to communicate to us. Why do they keep themselves hidden from us?

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Thanks Raabo for opening the thread.

Reason why people are loosing hope on UFO sightings is becoz there are too many sightings reported! Most were classifed as Hoaxes. They do it to get media attention and gain popularity.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

we are not alone here

Y

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I once saw a show on Discovery Channel. I think it was Mystery Hunters in Discovery Kids, wherein they showed different ways in which people can be fooled to believe the UFO Sightings.

Often it is Illusion that induces one to believe the UFO sightings....

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

yashved said:
I once saw a show on Discovery Channel. I think it was Mystery Hunters in Discovery Kids, wherein they showed different ways in which people can be fooled to believe the UFO Sightings.

Often it is Illusion that induces one to believe the UFO sightings....

Ditto on crop circles.

P.S. You're correct about the show! I remember watching it myself.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I don't know about UFOs but crop circles are real. I mean, they are not hoaxes or man-made. I don't know who makes them or how but there is certainly something spooky about crop circles. I have read lots of articles on crop circles and seen so many documentaries on crop circle. Man made crop circles are very different from naturally occurring one. No cameras, no motion detectors nothing has ever been able to record a crop circle formation which takes just a few minutes to form complex patterns.

Crop circles are always formed at night and is always accompanied by fog so as to hide the process. Many research teams have tried to record the event but were not successful. All the reports I read had the same story- they wait all night with infrared cameras and motion detectors and what not and nothing happens. Then just a few hours before day break there comes a heavy fog and visibility becomes zero. Within half an hour or so, sometimes just a few minutes, the fog lifts and in place is a magnificent crop circle.

Just mind boggling!!!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
Crop circles are always formed at night and is always accompanied by fog so as to hide the process. Many research teams have tried to record the event but were not successful. All the reports I read had the same story- they wait all night with infrared cameras and motion detectors and what not and nothing happens. Then just a few hours before day break there comes a heavy fog and visibility becomes zero. Within half an hour or so, sometimes just a few minutes, the fog lifts and in place is a magnificent crop circle.

I once saw a documentary which in detail spread light about all the thing u said. They even showed a man forming a crop circle and how it is different from the ones which are done at night giving technical details from experts. Even they showed a CAM-Video taken in night.. In that video(which was taken from a distance in night), a light came which revolved few times in few minutes.... Then all was looking again normal.. A crop circle was formed. They also showed few cropcircles in different countries and analysed them.. Thanx Raabo for reopening an interesting thread (For those who believe)

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

^^^ I guess I've seen the same documentary and they actually revealed later that the nice video was handiwork of some guy ...

About the experts who were commenting about the technical details ... a group formed a crop circle with nothing but simple wood log and filmed it ... later the experts analyzed it and confirmed it's not fake and an official crop circle by UFO ... Only to be embarrassed by watching the video later ...

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

To add more food for thought... The Nazca Lines. There's an interesting little article on wikipedia (Click) which throws more light on either supposed alien involvement or ingenious human imagination resulting in the famous designs.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

AshishSharma said:
About the experts who were commenting about the technical details ... a group formed a crop circle with nothing but simple wood log and filmed it ... later the experts analyzed it and confirmed it's not fake and an official crop circle by UFO ... Only to be embarrassed by watching the video later ...

Technical details in the sense about how the crops would be after forming of crop circles. Like the stem of crops would be bent if manually done using wooden logs(which they demonstrated too) and compared it with some suscpicious crop circles. In such crop circles stem were hollow as they have undergone High intensity radiation....
I saw the documentary few years back...So dont remember entire documentary.. Told what I remember.. All I can say is whatever they shown wasnt bogus.. They clearly showed which one are Fake and which one are mysteries..

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I don't know about UFO's........but I believe tht there is another world like earth where life exists ... and ppl r enjoying there more than earth ..lol lolz

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

There was a whole series of UFO sightseeing on Discovery channel about an year back. It has been repeated too a number of times. It does show that there are many evidences which have not been proved wrong as yet. I don't know whether the UFO's exist but I am very sure that there is ET. There indeed is life in other planets and there are intelligent life forms. There is a lot of development to be done in the physics to understand and reach to that place.
If there is life in other planets then they might be advanced enough to reach to earth too. It is not impossible. The only thing is that we dont have credible evidence and since many evidences are yet not established so it is yet not accepted logically.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

AshishSharma said:
^^^ I guess I've seen the same documentary and they actually revealed later that the nice video was handiwork of some guy ...

About the experts who were commenting about the technical details ... a group formed a crop circle with nothing but simple wood log and filmed it ... later the experts analyzed it and confirmed it's not fake and an official crop circle by UFO ... Only to be embarrassed by watching the video later ...

You are wrong. Crop circles that are made by humans have broken stems but in real crop circles the stems are not broken but bent. The stem continues to live and grow after being bent, but in the fake crop circles the plant dies after the stem is broken. Scientist believe some kind of heat was used in bending the stem without breaking, just like you heat a glass rod before bending, which otherwise would have broken if tried to bend.

*earthfiles.com/Images/news/B/BeloitSmoothBend7.jpg
Bent stalk of crop circles

*www.planetarymysteries.com/hieronimus/images/node.gif
Normal stalk on the Left and bent stalk on the Right.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
Crop circles that are made by humans have broken stems but in real crop circles the stems are not broken but bent. The stem continues to live and grow after being bent, but in the fake crop circles the plant dies after the stem is broken. Scientist believe some kind of heat was used in bending the stem without breaking, just like you heat a glass rod before bending, which otherwise would have broken if tried to bend.

Thanx for the info with picture. I think I wrote Vice versa (Which is wrong).. That manually done were bent..
Hey is it the high intensity radiation that generated the heat..??

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Posts in this thread have brought to light a few misconceptions that some of you have, let me address those first:

1.
Star systems that could potentially have life are too far away, it would take 400 years to traverse that distance even when travelling at the speed of light!

Myth Buster:
Physics (and Einstein) have proved that as you approach the speed of light, time begins to slow down. AT the speed of light, time = 0, thus you could travel billions of light years in what (to you) would seem like a second. Thus if UFOs exist, they could be piloted by aliens who (in our relative time) left their home planet (travelling at the speed of light) thousands of years ago, but to them they just left a few minutes ago.

The problems that this brings forth is that perhaps these aliens have no wish to return home, and are just stopping by for some sort of fuel, or to map our planet, send data back to their homeworld and then move on again. They obviously wouldn't want to return home because thousands of years have passed and everyone and everything they knew is dead and gone.

2. If UFOs come here, why aren’t they contacting us? How can a race that is intelligent NOT want to contact us?

Myth Buster:
You see ant hills all the time, when was the last time you wanted to contact one? Why are we so self absorbed that we accept that perhaps we’re just ants (or bacteria) to them. And I don’t mean this in terms of size, I mean this in terms of importance. If UFOs exist, these are aliens with technologies that are ahead of our own research by at least a few thousand (if not million) years. Perhaps they’re just here shooting a documentary on weird dumb animals of space, Discovery style!

3. UFOs = Aliens
Myth Buster:
UFO = Unidentified Flying Object. This could be a secret government project, a freak of nature OR aliens. But aliens aren’t the only possibility!

4. Aliens are visiting us

Myth Buster:
I believe that UFOs exist, I’ve seen a UFO once myself. What’s different about my views is the fact that I am not sure it is Aliens piloting them! No I’m not getting into the whole Uncle Sam (or Uncle Samir for India) is testing secret weapons and aircraft. What I mean is perhaps the UFOs are piloted by humans themselves, just that these humans are from a different time or a different dimension! If, say in a million years, humans figure out a way to travel even faster than the speed of light (which effectively let’sus go BACK in time), perhaps they’d want to come visit THEIR world in the distant past (our present). Of course they would not be allowed to interact with us, so as to conserve the space time continuum, so they come, they watch and they leave! This explains why we see UFOs, why they never contact us, and the theory also explains how they appear in the sky, but satellites and the space station see nothing. Imagine someone in the future could be sitting and waiting for their turn to “come see the old earth”!

Raaabo

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Raaabo said:
1.
Star systems that could potentially have life are too far away, it would take 400 years to traverse that distance even when travelling at the speed of light!

Myth Buster:
Physics (and Einstein) have proved that as you approach the speed of light, time begins to slow down. AT the speed of light, time = 0, thus you could travel billions of light years in what (to you) would seem like a second. Thus if UFOs exist, they could be piloted by aliens who (in our relative time) left their home planet (travelling at the speed of light) thousands of years ago, but to them they just left a few minutes ago.

Practically its impossible to approach the speed of light because as you increase your speed your mass increases. The closer you get to the speed of light your mass increases exponentially and at the speed of light it becomes infinite, a physical impossibility. To move a space ship having infinite mass at the speed of light would require infinite amount of energy.

I'm not saying that space travel over large distance is not possible but certainly not by conventional method. If UFOs exist and aliens do visit us, they must have done it by some other method like through a wormhole.

Raaabo said:
3. UFOs = Aliens
Myth Buster:
UFO = Unidentified Flying Object. This could be a secret government project, a freak of nature OR aliens. But aliens aren’t the only possibility!

But when we are talking about UFOs we mean aliens. A secret government aircraft doesn't become a UFO by defination. Unidentified to the common people but not to the government. A flying bird you can't recognize doesn't become a UFO, does it? These UFO sightings could actually be secret government projects and not aliens, atleast most of them. Consider that most sightings occur at US and near Nevada where the "famous" Area 51 is located.

Raaabo said:
4. Aliens are visiting us

Myth Buster:
I believe that UFOs exist, I’ve seen a UFO once myself. What’s different about my views is the fact that I am not sure it is Aliens piloting them!

Actually I've seen moving lights in the sky myself and twice but it could be just a satellite.

Raaabo said:
What I mean is perhaps the UFOs are piloted by humans themselves, just that these humans are from a different time or a different dimension! If, say in a million years, humans figure out a way to travel even faster than the speed of light (which effectively let’sus go BACK in time), perhaps they’d want to come visit THEIR world in the distant past (our present). Of course they would not be allowed to interact with us, so as to conserve the space time continuum, so they come, they watch and they leave! This explains why we see UFOs, why they never contact us, and the theory also explains how they appear in the sky, but satellites and the space station see nothing. Imagine someone in the future could be sitting and waiting for their turn to “come see the old earth”!

Is time travel possible? Thats a burning question inside me too. There is a funny argument regarding time travel. Read the Grandfather paradox.

Well, I'm not saying that UFOs don't exist but I can't say for sure unless I've seen it myself from a close range. We can't believe too much in other people's reports because there are too many liars out there.

A

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Does UFO's exist? Yes they do coz I own one and I roam around when I feel bored.

Just kidding.

Yes. I do think they exist. I don't think earth is the only planet with life on it. There should be more. If we can go till moon, there will be someone who have greater tech. and they certainly can come to earth.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
Practically its impossible to approach the speed of light because as you increase your speed your mass increases.

Mass doesn't increase, but the "relative mass"!

blackpearl said:
The closer you get to the speed of light your mass increases exponentially and at the speed of light it becomes infinite, a physical impossibility. To move a space ship having infinite mass at the speed of light would require infinite amount of energy.

1. F=M*a (Force = Rest Mass * acceleration)
2. E=M*(c^2) (Energy = Rest Mass * Speed of light raise to power 2)

These are the fundamental equations. The highlighted part doesn't match any of the 2 equations. I think u got confused with equation 2!

What I can recall is, when a particle moves through the space it experiences a negetive force to the direction of movement. When a rocket moves it experiences friction of the air. So we need to apply greater force to overcome the friction and to maintain the same accelaration. And its the mass of the body that constitutes to that friction.

Equation 1 can also be written as M=(F/a)
So as the force increases, the relative mass increases, But not exponentially. Also the friction can be reduced by designing the shape of the body appropriately so that it can "cut" the space with minimum friction! Birds have natural shapes like that, planes are built with shapes similar to birds so that their face can "cut" the space with minimum damage and friction.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

No. Its not relative mass but the real mass. The equation is this

*www.rostra.dk/louis/pics/f13_01.gif

m(v) is the mass at velocity V. m(0) is the mass at rest, the mass that we measure.

Its Einstein's equation dude, not mine

__________
What you are taliking about is classical physics. This is quantum physics.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Yea I know of this equation too bro. But it doesn't say mass increases exponentially! And rest mass never increases!

Yea its einstein equation and everything about it is "relative"! Hence the concept of "relative velocity" and likewise "relative mass"! Mass is defined as quantity of matter. That quantity is constant according to all physics laws. Hence the universal definition of mass. Based on mass, weight of the body can vary according to gravitation, the energy can vary, momentum can vary, relative mass can be calculated etc. BUT again rest mass or simply called as mass is constant!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
physical impossibility

well sorry to bat in... but There is no such word a impossible with science... why ?? as to day it sounds impossible to us, but as we saw in past at some point of time to man kind flying seemed impossible... Visiting moon seemed impossible... lesser seemed impossible.. but they are reallity now...

its only matter of time when in near future some one like us in a Discussion would point out and say "You see at 2006 people thought Speed of Light is impossible to archive"....

its only matter of time...

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@mediator:

As the speed approaches the speed of light the energy approaches infinity. Hence is should be impossible to accelerate an object with rest mass to the speed of light and particles with zero rest mass must always go at exactly the speed of light otherwise they would have no energy. This is sometimes called the "light speed barrier" but it is very different from the "sound speed barrier". As an aircraft approaches the speed of sound it starts to feel pressure waves which indicate that it is getting close. With some more thrust it can pass through. As the light speed barrier is approached (in a perfect vacuum) there is no such effect according to relativity. Moving at 0.99999c is just like standing still with everything rushing past you at -0.99999c. Particles are routinely pushed to these speeds in accelerators so the theory is well established. Trying to get to the speed of light in this way is like trying to get to the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

This explains why it is not possible to exceed the speed of light by ordinary mechanical means.....

*www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html#16

Its already proved in laboratory experiments that mass increases when accelerated, when they measured the mass of a moving electron and found it to be higher than rest mass. I read it somewhere.

I suggest you to read more on this matter.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@blackpearl :

I have read all the stuff and thats why I'm discussing it here. First u said, mass increases, then u argued mass increases exponentially.

The above link u quoted is what I'm trying to say itself! Its the energy that increases and it would be better and logical to say that "relative mass" increases by the equation u gave. But the "relative mass" never increases exponentially! Also saying that mass increases, is highly incorrect scientifically and physically . U name any reputed book or scientific site that hasn't mentioned the word "relative". If its not there then its either a typo or a faulty published web page that wasn't reviewed accurately. There are many sites u'll find where it says "mass increases", but einstien didn't name his theory and introduced the word "relative" in it for no reason. The mass increases, but relative to what? So its relative mass. Speed increases, but relative to what? Hence relative velocity. So its more scientific and logical to say "relative mass" increases. When discussing such things u shud be highly specific.

When u quoted @raaabo, u never talked specifically using terms like rest mass or relative mass. U just said mast increases (n then mass increases exponentially which is incorrect). Now who's gonna understand what u said?? Rest mass is constant. The physical thing is constant! But what's increasing??

1. A train A going towards north with velocity 20 KM/h (be specific. 20 kmph wrt to what?? => w.r.t ground ). Another train B goes to south with 20 kmph. But a child in train B calculates the speed of train A and observes that its 40 kmph. But is it actually 40 kmph??
Train A speedometer indicates 20kmph but child in B calculates it as 40 kmph. Which one is correct?? Everything has to be comapred to rest. Neither of them r wrong but logically it wud be speedometer of A which is correct coz if the child says that A was travelling with 40 kmph then it wud mean B was resting! But B was also moving.

2. On earth ur weight is 90 kgs suppose and on another planet it becomes 200 kgs. Will u say ur mass has increased here? Tell me what has increased!

I hope u got my point. These were just some examples to show that ur body mass is constant but there is something called "relative" which ur missing.

So the terms rest mass and relative mass have a meaning. Understand their meaning first and then try to implement them in such discussions. So its just the relative mass that increases.
I tell u read H.C verma for conceptual physics and u'll have no more doubts after that.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

OK, I get it, its the relative mass. But still the common argument put forward why any particle having mass cannot attain the speed of light is because "its mass increases with velocity" so that at the speed of light it becomes infinite (see the formula), in the sense that infinite amount of energy is reqd to move it.

Also there is a different formula to calculate relative velocity of high moving objects. For eg, suppose there are 2 cars both moving in the opposite direction at velocity 0.6c (i.e. 60% the speed of light). Common sense tells us that the relative velocity between the 2 cars should be 0.6c+0.6c = 1.2c, isn't it? Wrong!! the relative velocity between the 2 cars is 0.88c. Why? because no velocity can be greater than the velocity of light. Defies common sense, isn't? Interestingly, this is also proved in laboratory experiment using 2 high velocity electrons moving in the opposite direction.

Please read this and tell me what they are trying to say.
*www.opencourse.info/astronomy/introduction/09.light_relativity/
*www.phys.vt.edu/~jhs/faq/sr.html

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

i see some of u believed in ufo's on the basis of mere movies and
tapes.
i just want to say that the movies n tapes r all rubbish!
how could anyone rely on such thing!!!
they could be editted n made fake easily.
talking about photographs they to could provide a false picture.
want a example?
one person had actually thrown a freesebee and shot a picture of it.
he made sure the picture was not that clear n claimed it to be an
ufo.the american inteligents only came to know it as fake only after
several yrs...
other many such cases has already proved to be false.
do watch discovery channel n please dont believe that people have
seen it!!!!

and yes i dont mean they cannot exist i just want to say dont rely on
what others say without firm proof!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@blackpearl : Yea thats correct.

Thats a nice link (opencourse one), but all thats written there is all what I said in the discussion.

Below is the quotation from the source provided by u!

Newton's Laws of Motion are approximations to Special Relativity that are applicable only at low speeds.

In other words, Special Relativity is a generalization of Newton's Laws of Motion.

In practice, one must be traveling faster than ~0.1c (30,000 Km/s!) to observe these special relativistic effects.

Nevertheless, with sensitive experimental equipment such as atomic clocks, the predictions of Special Relativity have been verified to high precision.

I gave the examples of low speed moving objects only like train ! IS there anything different I said??

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Mediator is right to insist on the usage of the term "relative" because it's all important when dealing with the speed of light.

Let me first talk about UFOs:

But when we are talking about UFOs we mean aliens. A secret government aircraft doesn't become a UFO by defination. Unidentified to the common people but not to the government. A flying bird you can't recognize doesn't become a UFO, does it? These UFO sightings could actually be secret government projects and not aliens, atleast most of them. Consider that most sightings occur at US and near Nevada where the "famous" Area 51 is located.

It's sad that you equated what I said with a BIRD being identified as a UFO. In a discussion that is talking about intelligent alien life, speed of light and time travel, I'd expect you to read posts a little more carefully and take the trouble to understand them. I prefer the term Unidentifiable Flying Object to the standard Unidentified… Why? Consider this: If you are video shooting, capture something weird looking flying across the sky, take the video tape to the media, they have experts look at it, no one knows what it is (and no I DON’T mean “what species of bird”, or, “what is that pet parakeet’s name”). It’s a UFO!

Is it necessarily Alien? Absolutely not. When the Stealth bombers were being test flown, triangle shaped UFOs were sighted all over the states. Little less than a year later everyone knew they were the stealths. However, for that period of time until the US government admitted that the “triangles” were in fact the stealth bombers, they “were” UFOs!

So until and unless a UFO hovers your house, beams down an alien with 2 fingers and telepathic capabilities, and mind-tells you, “Take me to your leader.”, even the fact that aliens visit us remains to be proved. A statement like “But when we are talking about UFOs we mean aliens.” is unfounded. My point remains the same: UFOs could be:
1. Aliens visiting us
2. Secret government airplanes
3. Time travel machines in which humans / robots from the future come to observe us
4. Optical illusions
5. Figments of our imaginations
6. Well executed fakes

Now to Superluminal possibilities:

Mathematically, superluminal speeds are achievable. They are not observable by us, but possible nonetheless. Einstein’s theories and equations are being pasted in this thread, even his theory of special relativity, but without being understood.

Einstein’s theories hold true for the “observable” universe of us four dimensional beings. However, newer theories in physics suggest that there are many more dimensions to the universe. We, being four dimensional, can only observe and understand the boundaries of what we see. A wormhole, as you pointed out, is an “error” (if I can take the liberty of calling it that) in our 4-dimensional observed universe.

Since you have used the example of a wormhole I am taking that to mean that you believe in their existence, as many others do, and this proves that the universe has at least one more dimension. Why? How else would you explain that particles with mass can enter a wormhole at X point and exit at Y point in the universe which is billions of light years away (or even 1 light year away) almost instantaneously (say 1 second). In a 4 dimensional world, that is like traveling 365 x 24 x 60 x 60 times the speed of light! (considering you travel 1 light year in 1 second)

But since superluminal speeds are impossible, wormholes must not exist! Yet they do… Thus Einstein must have been wrong, or at best right about only what holds true in the 4-dimensional boundary we exist in!

Let’s consider the mathematically proven particle called the Tachyon next. Everything that makes up our universe, as we know it, is made up of particles that we can unofficially call Tardyons. (From the word Tardy, i.e. Slow). Physicists and great mathematicians have spoken about Tachyons, which basically are (5th dimension??) particles that ONLY travel at superluminal velocities. Though it’s probably wrong to say this, you might consider these particles similar to the anti-matter that we’ve heard mentioned in Star Trek!

Just as 4-dimensional physics and Einstein’s theory of special relativity suggest that it would need infinite energy to accelerate even a mere electron to light speed… using the same equations, it would need infinite energy to SLOW down a Tachyon to light speed. In theory, a Tachyon accelerates as it loses energy.

Also, due to our 4-dimensional limitations, if we were to try and observe a tachyon, we would find that it is moving backwards in time. This is because observations are always relative. Discussions about Tachyons and superluminal speeds always seem to run into pages and pages, so I’ll stop here unless someone replies and asks for specific clarifications…

Back to the point:

blackpearl said:
Practically its impossible to approach the speed of light because as you increase your speed your mass increases. The closer you get to the speed of light your mass increases exponentially and at the speed of light it becomes infinite, a physical impossibility. To move a space ship having infinite mass at the speed of light would require infinite amount of energy.

I'm not saying that space travel over large distance is not possible but certainly not by conventional method. If UFOs exist and aliens do visit us, they must have done it by some other method like through a wormhole.

As I have illustrated already, the very presence of wormholes makes superluminal travel a possibility (all we need to do is figure out how to survive the journey through a wormhole). Since time is relative, as is speed, as is mass, nothing is impossible. And if we accept that travel through space is possible, using wormholes, at superluminal speeds, time travel also must be possible.

Some theories suggest that the grandfather paradox will never occur, simply because time travel to the past isn’t possible. The future sure, the past, no way! This is because that when you approach the speed of light, relative time slows. So if you leave earth traveling at the speed of light, and travel for 10 years (observed from earth)… 5 years moving away and the other 5 spent on returning… you will find yourself back at earth in what was an instant to you, but was a decade to the people on earth…

Now, theory suggests that if you travel through a wormhole, go to a place 5 light years away, 5 to return, you will find yourself 10 years from the time you left. Thus the wormhole somehow accelerated the ship to about 10 x 365 x 24 x 60 x 80 times the speed of light! All we need to do is find what properties of a wormhole can accelerate a ship to such speeds…

Raaabo

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Raaabo said:
My point remains the same: UFOs could be:
1. Aliens visiting us
2. Secret government airplanes
3. Time travel machines in which humans / robots from the future come to observe us
4. Optical illusions
5. Figments of our imaginations
6. Well executed fakes

I understand what you are trying to say, that anything that is unidentified or unidentifiable could be labeled as a UFO. Fine.

Now try to understand what I'm trying to say. Most UFO sightings are nothing but mistaken identities. That stealth bomber that so many people thought to be UFOs were infact airplanes, a case of mistaken identity. Strictly speaking, anything that are actually identifiable but were wrongly identified or not identified at all due to lack of knowledge or poor visibilty, whatever, could not be called UFO. Because in reality they are very much identifiable. Unless and until there appears an object in the sky that all men on this earth swear they never made, you can safely say that its unidentified. What can be an object that no man on earth has made unless its some spaceship from a distant star? All other objects from secret airplanes, to cloud formations that could have been called a "UFO" have an identity. You might not like it, but the term UFO has become synonymous with "alien spaceship". Otherwise why would UFOs be so widely discussed and speculated? Because people feel that some of these UFOs, if indeed they are unidentified, in the sense that its not man made, could be alien spacecrafts.

Raaabo said:
Einstein’s theories hold true for the “observable” universe of us four dimensional beings. However, newer theories in physics suggest that there are many more dimensions to the universe.

Extra dimensions are the most misunderstood. I would like to quote the following from a website.

The notion of any extra dimension to the four known dimensions was conceived by the Polish mathematician Theodor Kaluza in 1919. Kaluza thought that extra spatial dimensions would allow for the integration between general relativity and James Clerk Maxwell’s electromagnetic theory. Suported by Swedish mathematician Oskar Klein in the 1920s, these extra dimensions were actually minute, curled-up dimensions that could not be detected due to their extremely small size. These two mathematicians said that within the common three extended dimensions (that we are familiar with) are additional dimensions in tightly curled structures.

*library.thinkquest.org/04apr/01330/newphysics/ndimensions.htm

These extra dimensions are curled up and too small to detect as stated in the text and their existence does not imply the existence of a parallel universe.

Raaabo said:
Now, theory suggests that if you travel through a wormhole, go to a place 5 light years away, 5 to return, you will find yourself 10 years from the time you left. Thus the wormhole somehow accelerated the ship to about 10 x 365 x 24 x 60 x 80 times the speed of light! All we need to do is find what properties of a wormhole can accelerate a ship to such speeds…

Wormholes are shortcuts in space. Its not necessary to travel at speeds in excess of light through a wormhoIe, infact you don't have to!! I have drawn a diagram to illustrate it.

*i9.tinypic.com/2ij0lfc.jpg

A and B are two points in space at distances several hundred light years. If a large gravitational force is applied its possible to bend space itself!! so that the points A and B comes nearer. Now through the wormhole you can make the journey where the distance is considerably reduced at a speed which is much less than the speed of light and yet arrive at B "faster than light". Travelling through a wormhole doesn't break any laws of physics neither does it make the Theory of Relativity null and void.

Wormhole is just a theory, which exist in mathematical equations in paper. Because the equations that hint at the existence of wormholes is derived from some famous and well founded equations its generally believed that wormhole is a possibility. No one has been able to create a wormhole till now. Regarding tachyons, its just a theory as well. The very defination defines Tachyon as a hypothetical particle whose existence is yet to be proved. Lets leave the question of whether a tachyon or a wormhole exist or not, to the scientist to find out.

Raaabo said:
A wormhole, as you pointed out, is an “error” (if I can take the liberty of calling it that) in our 4-dimensional observed universe.

Since you have used the example of a wormhole I am taking that to mean that you believe in their existence, as many others do, and this proves that the universe has at least one more dimension.

Frankly speaking, I'm an idiot regarding meta physics and einstein's theory. I say only those which I read. I don't consider myself knowledgable enough to make my own deductions in physics. I would rather ask "Does existence of wormhole suggest there is another dimension?", than bluntly state "wormhole proves there is another dimension".

Anyway, this discussions has been highly interesting, and I would be happy if anybody has any other information to enlighten me furthur.

R

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Watch this:
(Its serious stuff!)
(though, i dont know if its real or not)

First:
*video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3935426908707141430&q=area+51
Second:
*video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3245046980782832257&q=area+51

Dosent matter if you believe it or not.. but a must see!
(I am confused as well..!)

//EDIT//
1st one is 1hr long... so its better you go for 2nd one first because of buffing issue.

M

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

One thing I can say for sure. This thread surely goes above my head. It's as good as rocket science for me. Too much high fundu science for us common people to understand.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

^^ hehe, nuthing's impossible to understand. The topics and fundas are easier to understand when they r in ur interest.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

I remember a program beamed by discovery on UFO’s…..

A research center was going through their daily routine of watching the sky using their telescopes. They saw a bright object in space which was moving in a haphazard manner. At first they ignored it as some kind of meteorite or some stuff in space. But their ignorance turned into revelation when saw it making some unusual maneuvers.

The object started making maneuvers just unimaginable! It was making 90 degrees turn at high speeds! It’s very unusual for space objects like meteorites, Space debris, etc to make such impossible maneuvers. Man-made objects also just can’t do that. Made-made propulsion technology can’t achieve 90 degrees turn at high speeds! Even if one assumes it, it is impossible for the man to survive inside the space craft. High G forces created at such high speeds would crush the man to death. Our unmanned transmitter technology is also far from being considered in this context. At last there is no other choice other than to declare it as an UFO driven by high-intelligence power.

UFO’s exist. Aliens may be preparing for something unimaginable! Time is God here. Let’s see what is in store for us in future!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

^^^ errr.... I think you did not watch the program completely. It was later showed how a simple deviation of around 5 degrees, in direction can look like a 300 degree turn when looked from a partcular direction. For eg take a thin straight rod and then bend it in the middle by just 10 degrees. Now place the bend rod on a table and look at it from the top, you see the bend exactly at 10 degree. Now bring your eye to the level of the table surface and view the rod from the direction such that one end of the rod points at you. Now what do you see? suddenly the bend looks close to 360 degree, isn't it? Ofcourse you know that isn't 360 degree because we can view in 3D. But what about a camera that takes photo in 2D against a black sky that looks the same in all direction. How can you know whether the object made a 10 degree turn or a 300 degree turn? It could be just a small rock defleted slightly from its path. Ofcourse it could be a spaceship or a UFO as Raaabo puts it. But you can be easily fooled.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
Now bring your eye to the level of the table surface and view the rod from the direction such that one end of the rod points at you.

@blackpearl : I wud like to read more on this and how ur theory holds true for distant objects and "how can a 90 deg angle be visualised greater than 180 deg or less than 0 degree".

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
^^^ errr.... I think you did not watch the program completely. It was later showed how a simple deviation of around 5 degrees, in direction can look like a 300 degree turn when looked from a partcular direction. For eg take a thin straight rod and then bend it in the middle by just 10 degrees. Now place the bend rod on a table and look at it from the top, you see the ...........

Nope. Not at all! I just don't know how did you relate this theory to my quoted context. You should understand that the particle is in 'motion' in my context. It not just a 2D illusion which you are pointing to. In my context, the particle is in motion. And when I say it is in motion, it is w.r.t real-time. Ok. Anyway just for curiosity, lets play around with this theory to find out if any illusion is possible.

*img67.imageshack.us/img67/6163/ufory8.jpg

Let assume the particle in motion perpendicular to the direction of view. So now you still see the object as stationary from position 'P1' to 'P2'. Now object takes a comfortable 30 deg turn to 'P3' w.r.t vertical and moves again in the direction of view to reach 'P4'. Now it takes another 30 deg turn and reaches 'P5'. Now what did you visualize? A 90 degree illusion! This maneuvers is as simple as possible doesn't require an UFO to do that. Hmmm...BUT, it doesn't end there! Where is the physics main 'time' factor? Since our discussion is in real-time photography, time can't be ignored! Particle in order to reach from position P1 to P2 takes a time 't', but for us that time is masked as time stationary since it's motion is in perpendicular direction! Same is the case when you consider point 'P3' to 'P4' here also the time 't' is a time when the particle is in motion towards view direction, but stand-by time w.r.t our camera context. So in this case maneuver from 'P1 to P5' may tend to look like a amazing 90 degree turn, but there is a delay of time T=t1+t2 during this motion. It's no more a continous motion. So this illusion can't be considered since in that scenario, the object is in full time motion w.r.t time.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@ blackpearl: I think you’re not getting my point about UFOs…

What you are trying to say is flawed in the following ways:

blackpearl said:
Most UFO sightings are nothing but mistaken identities

That’s why they’re called UFOs. A UFO is only a UFO until identified. If you stick to your theory of “UFO === Alien space craft”, then the only way you’d ever see one is if it landed and little green men came out. Actually, then it wouldn’t be a UFO either, because we’d KNOW that it was an alien space craft, and it wouldn’t be a UFO! Get it?

blackpearl said:
Unless and until there appears an object in the sky that all men on this earth swear they never made, you can safely say that its unidentified.

Do you seriously think the governments of countries will say, “Oh yeah, that’s our super secret project!” A UFO is just something that people see but cannot identify. If it remains unidentified, it remains a UFO, if it is identified, it ceases to be a UFO. That’s just simply the way it is.

blackpearl said:
You might not like it, but the term UFO has become synonymous with "alien spaceship".

Why wouldn’t I like it? I know that people think they see alien ships when they’re actually looking at secret US airplanes. So what? It doesn’t change the fact that until they’re identified they’re still UFOs!

blackpearl said:
Extra dimensions are the most misunderstood. I would like to quote the following from a website.

I’ll get to this in a while, but I think you haven’t understood the theories. This excerpt is from one of the many theories of infinite dimensions, and is all too cryptic. There are many theories, even of infinite parallel universes, and even theories that every second is a parallel universe (or even millisecond). Which, if true, makes time travel a possibility! But most of them are theories and hotly contested by other physicists. I prefer to stick to widely accepted theories (widely accepted = the majority of smartest brains in the world agree upon it), understand them and then comment on them and use logic on them, rather than pulling up theories that have as many contesters as supporters.

blackpearl said:
Wormholes are shortcuts in space. Its not necessary to travel at speeds in excess of light through a wormhoIe, infact you don't have to!! I have drawn a diagram to illustrate it.

To be honest, I’m most amused that you feel the need to give me a dictionary explanation of a wormhole and even took the trouble to draw a diagram.

Like I said, I’m accepting the widely accepted theories of the world’s smartest men (Einstein included). So when I talk about wormholes and Tachyons, it’s after reading all the theories put forward by these men.

Since you were the first one to mention “wormhole”, I figured that you believed in them, and accepted the theories behind them. I’m very surprised to see you say…

blackpearl said:
Wormhole is just a theory, which exist in mathematical equations in paper. Because the equations that hint at the existence of wormholes is derived from some famous and well founded equations its generally believed that wormhole is a possibility. No one has been able to create a wormhole till now. Regarding tachyons, its just a theory as well. The very defination defines Tachyon as a hypothetical particle whose existence is yet to be proved. Lets leave the question of whether a tachyon or a wormhole exist or not, to the scientist to find out.

Honestly, if this is just time-pass to you guys, and you’re not really interested enough to actually read up on stuff and understand it, maybe this thread really was better left locked! I’d appreciate it if people took the time to verify their opinions with some facts or at least base assumptions intelligently upon theories from world renowned physicists and scientists! None of us here are Einsteins, but let’s not try and spout lines from the greatest scientific works of our time just for fun!

blackpearl said:
*i9.tinypic.com/2ij0lfc.jpg

I have just one question. Can you draw the same diagram depicting 3D space instead of a line or a plane?

This is what I mean by people not understanding theories before trying to explain them. For the rest of the readers of this thread…

The diagram above depicts space as a 2D plane, because in order to explain wormholes, we need to involve an additional dimension, which is impossible, because we wouldn’t know how to depict the 5th dimension. 3D is hard enough for us to see. For those of you who are wondering where the 4th dimension went, it’s time. We are fourth dimensional beings because we have volume (3D) and we exist, change and die with time (4th D).

This is why all diagrams of wormholes are stepped down a dimension or two, so that we can add the additional dimension to explain the way it works.

Anyway, back to the diagram: So, if you considered space to be that sheet of paper (stepped down one dimension), the shortest distance between point A and B is a straight line. However, if you add a dimension you get part 2 of the figure, where space can be bent and morphed by, say, a black hole, and the shortest distance between A and B can be reduced, even brought to virtually nothing, so you could get there in no time flat. This involves bending space which means adding another dimension!

This of it this way:
If you discovered a 3D world, where there was only length and breadth and time, no height (every being was infinitesimally short), and you were observing this world, couldn’t you do things that would make the beings of that world think of you as a god? You could pick up one of the flat beings and transport him to another part on the plane that is his universe, and he would be awed. Of course since they themselves are 3D beings, and you are 4D, they would only see your interactions with their world as length and breadth, no height! So if you stuck your finger into this plane, the beings would see a skin coloured line or circle, but not a finger. This is why we, as 4D beings cannot, and will not, picture a 5D universe! So although you can just bend the plane to make 2 points meet, to the beings of this flat world it would be magic! This is why additional dimensions are so hard for most people to understand!

@romit: the second video was already disproved as fake

tech_your_future said:
One thing I can say for sure. This thread surely goes above my head. It's as good as rocket science for me. Too much high fundu science for us common people to understand.

LOL!!!

In order for this thread to make sense and continue, let’s just stick to the rule that if we’re going to be talking about UFOs and physics, people cannot just discount theories by the greatest human minds on a whim, not without a lot of good logical explanations to support such views!

Also, this thread has become much more than “Do you think UFOs exist”, which is in itself a flawed question because of course UFOs exist, any flying object that we cant understand or identify is a UFO! I think this thread should be renamed to “Aliens, UFOs, Time travel, physics and more…”. All in favour say Aye!

Raaabo

PS: Sorry for hijacking this thread! Oh and I stuck it so that I wouldn't have to search for it

If it dies (stops getting intelligent replies) mods are free to unstick it...

M

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

And I'd say we add a warning too. Geeky talk - Enter at your own risk.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Now I'm geniunly afraid to step into this thread. Everybody seems to know better than the other. Lets accept that we are confused as everybody else. I know its difficult to imagine the bending of a 3D space, so the diagram was given for a 2D space because it helps to get the concept. Now when you think of a 3D space, the concept of wormhole gets bizzare to say the least. Unfortunately, scientists have not gone to explain exactly how. They would probably prove it mathematically, but not physically. Thats why I said its just a theory. You can't disagree and you can't agree either.

And yes, the title is confusing. Ofcourse unidentified objects exist, what do you think people have discovered and classified each and every object in this universe? But I understood what he meant. He should have asked "Do you believe in alien spaceship?". So lets not discuss any furthur about the defination of UFO.

mediator said:
@blackpearl : I wud like to read more on this and how ur theory holds true for distant objects and "how can a 90 deg angle be visualised greater than 180 deg or less than 0 degree".

@mediator, kiran: let me think of a way, how I can make it clear.

ALIENS and UFO's

Coincidently, I had written an article entitled "Aliens and UFO's" and published in our company Intranet Portal. I would like to present to all of you.

DO ALIENS REALLY EXIST? IF YES WHY ARE THEY NOT INTERACTING WITH US?

We have seen many Hollywood movies showing these strange creatures which are so called 'Aliens'. Many still believe that they really exist & are occasionally visiting our Planet.

This statement may really puzzle you! But some incidents which occurred on Earth makes you think twice before ignoring it.

1. One night a man was driving back to home passing through outskirts of the city. As he passed through a hilly zone, he noticed a bright spot of light. Puzzled with the intensity of brightness, he stopped his car & looked at it. All of a sudden he fell unconscious. By the time he woke up, he saw nothing was there. Being confused, he reached home. Days passed…& one day he felt pain in his left arm. He consulted a Doctor. X-Ray of his arm showed a foreign substance twice the size of a groundnut. The Doctor recommended removal of the substance by operation. After operation, they analyzed the foreign substance. The Doctors could not tell what the substance was! They were puzzled! They immediately sent it to specialized lab for analysis of the substance. The scientists analyzed it & could neither draw any conclusion. They just could not tell what the substance is made up of! At last they declared that the material was of NON-EARTH origin! It was an implant made by Aliens during that night on his way back to home.

2. A Camera man of a top news agency never believed in Aliens & UFO’s stuff. He thought that people were becoming too crazy by producing such alien videos. But an incident that happened to him changed his thinking towards this strange thing.

One fine evening he was filming home video of his family people enjoying at a beach. They noticed a big disc shaped object approaching them. At first they ignored it as a Glider. Camera man pointed his handy cam towards this approaching object. He could not believe his eyes! He saw an UFO approaching them! All of them were puzzled! Cameraman kept his camera rolling. But as soon as the UFO approached over head, the camera automatically failed! The UFO passed over their head in a flash! As soon as the UFO went off, the camera started working! He could not believe what went wrong at that moment! Camera was a brand new one. Battery was full. There was no reason for it to fail. But it did! All the data in the camera got erased! Scientists say that the camera came under strong Magnetic field due to which it failed that moment.

There is absolutely no reason for the cameraman to tell another telltale story! He is already a well recognized person & has good reputation in his news agency.

There are hundreds of Home videos & photographs published by common man & also some research labs around the world. All these videos featured a common thing, an Alien or an UFO. All these can be neglected as fake. But the growing numbers doesn’t allow us to dismiss all of them. Some are too good to be genuine and some just can’t be dismissed as fake. Some people might have done it to show their extra-ordinary computer graphics skills & some for getting name & fame, but not all of them. People who produced these videos included journalists, Scientists & some genuine people who don’t play with this kind of issues.

So why are Aliens not interacting with us?

I would like to throw some light on this.

Do they think our technology is not worth it?
Or is it because they can't understand our technology, our interests?
Are they afraid of us?

1. Man is trying very hard to interact with them. Humans are sending loads of varying signal waves into the space and waiting for reply signal from them. But till now there is no response from anywhere.

That doesn't discourage us from doing so. May be the signals transmitted by humans has not yet reached them. Our atmosphere and hence space is filled with all kinds of satellite signals. Satellite programs beamed by T.V stations, Radio stations, etc from the day it started are still progressing deep into the space. Did aliens catch hold of them? Or whether it has not yet reached them? Signals transmitted by T.V stations in earlier 50's are still reaching our neighbouring galaxies. It's the matter of time when they will receive it.

Varying strong ripples of encoded signals (like the one shown in blockbuster 'Koi mil gaya') are also being beamed into space. Why aren't they replying to it? May be they are unable to decode our signals to their understandable form.

2. As as Raabo said, they might find our technology not worth to interact with us. They might be studying us, the way we live, our physical structure..etc. This may be the reason for the rising abduction cases on humans.

3. Or is it because they are afraid of us! They might be watching us, willing to interact with us, but possible that they are afraid of consequences.

So humans are preparing for it. Suppose one fine day (or Bad day!) they interact with us. Then how are we going to understand what they are telling? They might be friendly with us expressing something, but just can't understand it! So humans are also not willing to be underprepared for it. Scientists are trying to understand various signal forms by researching on the animals on earth. It is said that Dolphins language of Ultrasonic sound waves is also a key factor in understanding aliens.

Many believe that Humans are already interacting with Aliens secretly! Most target US military. Especially the Area Sector 51, America's top secret military base on earth is in limelight of UFO spotting. A researcher kept a Camera running 24x7 days. Then he observed the video. He was amazed to see a extremely bright object landing some time in night. Then it vanished after a stay of an hour. None could explain what it was! The brightness was extremely intense, hence unlikely to be human made. He declared it as an UFO.

So the search is ON. Research centres are observing the space closely for any possible signal from extraterrastrials. It's the matter of time when we will get a signal from them. Suppose one day we get a signal from faraway world! HOW SHALL WE REACT? WILL IT BE A EMERGENCY SITUATION, POSING THREAT TO MANKIND? SHALL WE PREPARE FOR THE WAR? OR SHALL WE TAKE IT IN A POSITIVE WAY THINKING IT AS A FRIENDLY SIGNAL!
These questions will remain unanswered till the day ACTUALLY ARRIVES!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Stories of UFOs are interesting. Some of them are strange, some of them seems convincing. I don't know what to believe.

Anyway, mediator asked how the turning angle may look a lot greater than they actually is. I have taken the trouble to create an animation of it :))

.
Before you view it let me clarify something. If you disagree with me don't flame me because:

1. This is not my theory. It was shown in Discovery how its difficult to exactly determine the path of motion. I'm just reproducing it.
2. I'm a bad animator, so the video might not look convincing.
3. Remember, you are seeing a 3D video from a close range. Things are a lot different when you see an object no bigger than a star, 20 miles above against a pitch black sky.

*rapidshare.com/files/5041743/Movie1.rar.html (560KB)
__________

kiran.rkk said:
Satellite programs beamed by T.V stations, Radio stations, etc from the day it started are still progressing deep into the space. Did aliens catch hold of them?

Well, I'm not making fun of you but if the aliens watch "Kyunki saas bhi kabhi bahu thi" on Star plus, they will flee.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
Well, I'm not making fun of you but if the aliens watch "Kyunki saas bhi kabhi bahu thi" on Star plus, they will flee.

Lol!

Forget about "Kyunki saas bhi kabhi bahu thi" , I wonder how do they feel if they see :?:

movies!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@blackpearl : That is a nice video. But it didn't answer my question! I specifically asked for 90 deg.

mediator said:
@blackpearl : I wud like to read more on this and how ur theory holds true for distant objects and "how can a 90 deg angle be visualised greater than 180 deg or less than 0 degree".

And now I'm interested more on this!

blackpearl said:
simple deviation of around 5 degrees, in direction can look like a 300 degree turn when looked from a partcular direction.

Again let me remind u we are dealing with distant objects!

I hope u know the difference between 5 deg and 300 deg angle.

Also, the video u showed wasn't very convincing. Part 1 of it, had an angle about 120-140 deg and part 2 also had aprox. the same angle. Yes aproximately the same angle u can verify it! Only the arms of the angle were shortened.

So please enlighten me with some convincing video!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@mediator: forget about specifics - 90 degree, 300 degree .... nobody took a compass to measure

Just look at the video one more time. The first one made a small turn, deviating from its path only slightly. The second one took a U-turn, although both were the same just viewed from different directions.
__________

mediator said:
Part 1 of it, had an angle about 120-140 deg and part 2 also had aprox. the same angle. Yes aproximately the same angle u can verify it! Only the arms of the angle were shortened.

The first one didn't have an angle of 140 degree. The angle is measured between the original direction and the new direction, how much the arm has turned.

Code:

                                         new direction
                                            /
                                           /
                                          /
                                         / )  angle of turn
Original direction ---------------------/------------------

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

@blackpearl:
Just viewed the video. I don't see a 90 degree turn in the video. In the second part of the video, you might have noticed the particle moving in a direction perpendicular to the direction of view. At that instance, the object looks stationary. This is what I said. The object should be in full motion while viewing. This is not possible under any circumstances.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
@mediator: forget about specifics - 90 degree, 300 degree .... nobody took a compass to measure
Just look at the video one more time. The first one made a small turn, deviating from its path only slightly. The second one took a U-turn, although both were the same just viewed from different directions.

Why forget? U told human mind can be fooled easily and thats why I wanted to discuss it with u.
I didn't understand by what u wantd to say by "how much arm has turned", but scientifically an angle of a moving object is measured by noting its initial position, final postition and maximum deviation between them. So if u adhere to scientific rules, then I request u to take a scale,compass and a D(angle calculator) and again calculate the angle for the 2 parts of the video. Its aprox. the same!! Try it and calculate it.

Neways that wasn't my point. U don't need to do extra work again. I just wanted to show that human mind can't be fooled that easily. Thats why I specifically asked for distant objects, 90 deg and later 5 deg and 300 deg, coz
1. 90 degrees has range 0<90<180 when viewed from different directions
2. 5 degrees cannot be viewed as 300 deg or greater than 180 deg when viewed from below the UFO. IF AO lies on x axis, and OB 5 deg above AO, then 300 deg means reversal of the direction of OB i.e below AO which is possible if we view the UFO from completely different direction i.e if we were viewing from below then we view it from above it, or if we were viewing from left of it then we view from right of it. But distant means viewing it from faraway and in a particular direction.
3. Also @kiran's point is valid here about time!

P.S - I used to be an engineering drawing student and tried to visualise it from all sort of directions so as to verify ur post about "human mind can be fooled very easily"! But I was unsuccessful to verify ur post. U may try more if u think I'm wrong!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Guys!! try to imagine. I will make one last try.

Suppose a body is moving in a circle. If you view it from the top, i.e. along the axis of the circle you will see it going round and round. Now if you view it along the plane of the circle, what will you see? You will see the body moving forward and backward continuously, i.e. oscillating. I hope its clear till now.

So in reality the body is slowly turning as it moves around in a circle, but from a diffferent view it looks as if the body is constantly changing direction - left to right and then right to left. I think this should be clear enough.
__________

mediator said:
P.S - I used to be an engineering drawing student and tried to visualise it from all sort of directions so as to verify ur post about "human mind can be fooled very easily"! But I was unsuccessful to verify ur post. U may try more if u think I'm wrong!

Now, that you mention, I was an engineering student too and familiar with Engineering Drawings. If you remember there is somethinmg called perspective. A railway track seems to radiate from a point if you stand on it and look far along the tracks, but you know that its parallel. An illusion.

Similarly, have you seen pictures of meteor showers. It looks like they are spreading every where like the spokes of a wheel. But in reality they are moving towards you almost parallely in a straight line. Search for such pictures on the net.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
Suppose a body is moving in a circle. If you view it from the top, i.e. along the axis of the circle you will see it going round and round. Now if you view it along the plane of the circle, what will you see? You will see the body moving forward and backward continuously, i.e. oscillating. I hope its clear till now.

So in reality the body is slowly turning as it moves around in a circle, but from a diffferent view it looks as if the body is constantly changing direction - left to right and then right to left. I think this should be clear enough.

Thats the simplest 2d visualization and planar representation! But one thing, why do u want to see it from top? We are talking about UFOs, means viewing from faraway and in one particular direction.

Also I missed a point in previous post. Suppose ur viewing the UFO from front i.e X-Y plane and it makes say 45 deg deviation w.r.t X axis. SO when Viewing from front u'll see that size and speed of UFO are constant. Now move urself towards Y-Z plane where X=0. What do u see? That the UFO is moving in a straight line. RIght? But it is obvious as when the moving particle is near us, its size seem to be much larger as compared to when it is at some distant position. Also when an object recedes from us, not only its size seem to diminish but also its speed!

So noting all such factors, I don't think human mind can be fooled that easily. It can detect with some observation whether the object is hovering in a circle, moving towards us or receding from us and during such sightings the human mind's observation goes at its peak due to curiosity.

blackpearl said:
Now, that you mention, I was an engineering student too and familiar with Engineering Drawings. If you remember there is somethinmg called perspective. A railway track seems to radiate from a point if you stand on it and look far along the tracks, but you know that its parallel. An illusion.

Exactly!! I didn't see this point of urs while making my above point. But both are same! So human mind knows how to distinguish a moving object in 3D space! Perspective! Its illusion, but human mind knows its parallel, its not getting fooled anywhere!

Neways, I'm extremely glad that ur an ED student tooooooo and that makes discussion much simpler and more interesting! ED rox. WHat say?

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Again a pointless argument!

blackpearl, do you seriously think that the scientists who viewed the videos in question did not know about reference frames and angle of viewers? If guys at NASA cannot explain some of the videos of UFOs making sharp turns at high speeds, what makes you so sure that you've hit the nail on the head and thought of something they didn't think of?

Comets travel at incredible speeds, yet you can see them for hours. this is because from a distance, speeds appear much, much slower. The fact that a change in direction is even noted, and that they whiz by at incredible heights = immense speed and great maneuverability. If you saw a plane in the sky, and it did a hard banking turn, you would see it turn slowly.

Also, lets not forget, in the videos (let’s leave the argument over whether they are real or hoaxes for now), the objects are traveling at very comparable speeds before and after the turn, thus hinting at the fact that the reference plane is not at an acute enough angle to the object to really matter or to skew the angle by much.

In your cyclic motion explanation, if viewed along the plane, the object will always appear to be accelerating and decelerating, fastest at the center point on the line and slowest at the ends, but the videos do not show that much of positive or negative acceleration.

Also, there is one way to explain a sharp turn at comparable speeds while viewed from an acute angle: this is only possible if the moving object suddenly, instantaneously accelerates and changes direction at the instant of acceleration. As I said, the fact that you can see the motion (speed) so clearly at such a distance means great speed, and for it to accelerate to thrice that speed in an instant (in order to prove your theory correct), already requires a lot more technology than humans are capable of…

Of course, there have been various other explanations for these objects: one NASA video which showed an object making one such sharp turn was explained as dust on the camera lens. It was explained as others as a UFO making a very sharp turn and speeding away after a missile was fired at it! What’s true and wha isn’t is not of concern right now though, but what is important is that again, your theories, though correct for short distances and MAYA experiments, do not hold true at the planetary scale…

Raaabo

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

^^^

Originally Posted by Raabo
Again a pointless argument!
blackpearl, do you seriously think that the scientists who viewed the videos in question did not know about reference frames and angle of viewers? If guys at NASA cannot explain some of the videos of UFOs making sharp turns at high speeds, what makes you so sure that you've hit the nail on the head and thought of something they didn't think of?

Rightly said. But not a pointless arguement though. Infact this was in my mind and was about to tell it to Blackpearl. I didn't want to take a third party reference(NASA) saying that if NASA can't explain illusion, how could he explain. That made me illustrate and clear his doubt regarding this motion. Mediator too justified it good enough that it is not a illusion. Blackpearl's arguement is valid if the object is retarding and accelarating during it's motion as u said. But in this case the object is making such maneveurs at constant speed. Moreover, his concept can't be considered for distant objects.
I will google for availablity of that video if NASA has made it publicly available.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Raaabo said:
blackpearl, do you seriously think that the scientists who viewed the videos in question did not know about reference frames and angle of viewers? If guys at NASA cannot explain some of the videos of UFOs making sharp turns at high speeds, what makes you so sure that you've hit the nail on the head and thought of something they didn't think of?

I have already told that its not my explanation, its the explanation shown in Discovery how that object might not be making a sharp turn at all. NASA did not say it was the only explanation.

This is the same case of Shooting the messenger.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

blackpearl said:
I have already told that its not my explanation, its the explanation shown in Discovery how that object might not be making a sharp turn at all. NASA did not say it was the only explanation.

This is the same case of Shooting the messenger.

OK! I know this is going to look like I'm targeting you (which I'm not!), but did Discovery ask you to come and post here? Did NASA?

The term "don't shoot the messenger" is used when someone shows anger to the bearer of bad news.

This scenario is different because you have heard/read something and are putting it forward as an explanation that you agree with (thus making it your view), in a debate on a subject that really has no right answers. You're not a messenger, so there's no case of shooting the messenger...

Every arguement about the objects on those tapes has counter arguements. Every plausible explanation has been probed, and every attempt to prove that these aren't UFOs has a counter argument... So let's drop this topic about the videos in question. I much prefer the "Is time travel possible" argument anyway

Raaabo

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

OK guys. Here it is! The shocking NASA video of an UFO making 90 degree turn! I was refering this Video in my article.
Click here : UFO Makes Shocking Manuevers & 90 Degree Turn!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

kiran.rkk said:
OK guys. Here it is! The shocking NASA video of an UFO making 90 degree turn!
Click here : UFO Makes Shocking Manuevers & 90 Degree Turn!

Great video !
But the question comes in mind,if UFOs are exists then why they don't come on earth permanently.......

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Maybe the Aliens are already here in Human Disguise.

the topic of thread should have been "Do You Think Aliens Exist",

Source of UFO = Existence of Aliens. right?

I do say that Aliens are there, coz there are Billions of Planets in those Billions of Galaxies, so there is possibility of some Planets with similar Climate/Eco-System as our Earth.

We dont even know for sure whether the Big-BANG occured or not. its all asumptions, no hard evidence.

So my conclusion, UFO visited Earth or not, Aliens exist for sure.
Who knows they might look as same as us humans.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

s18000rpm said:
the topic of thread should have been "Do You Think Aliens Exist",
Source of UFO = Existence of Aliens. right?

Yeah !

S

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Man! this thread is going nuts and never thought it will come this far!
__________

tech_mastermind said:
Great video !
But the question comes in mind,if UFOs are exists then why they don't come on earth permanently.......

nice video! its movin really fast!

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

tech_mastermind said:
Great video !
But the question comes in mind,if UFOs are exists then why they don't come on earth permanently.......

Yep! It's very hard or rather impossible to imagine any man-made or heavenly object making such maneuvers.

Regarding your question...check out mine and Raabo's earlier posts...It has already been discussed in detail.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Whoops! Apparently digitadmin accidently closed this thread, reopened... apologies from the admins..

Raaabo

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
Whoops! Apparently digitadmin accidently closed this thread, reopened... apologies from the admins..

Raaabo

No problems Raabo! Accidents do happen, more over mistakes are made by Humans. I am sure Agent 001 is human!

Thanks to Fatbeing for opening the thread.

C

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

i wont believe till i see one till then i'll laugh at these stories

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Lets start abt Time travel, first i wanted open it as a another thread, but as the thread's name is changed im goin on here:

source: *www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/think.html

Think Like Einstein
by Rick Groleau

Ever since Einstein revealed his special theory of relativity, we've known that time travel—at least moving forward through time—is possible. Einstein didn't pull this theory, or even the notion that time travel is possible, out of thin air. Rather, he took the knowledge of the day, saw an inconsistency—a piece of a puzzle that didn't fit, so to speak—and thought about possible explanations.

On the following pages you'll have to think like Einstein. You'll take a look at the same puzzle and see the problem, and you'll have to think about the same things Einstein had to think about to resolve the problem. Maybe you've heard the recent reports about how physically unique Einstein's brain was. Don't panic—you won't need a superhuman brain to grasp the concepts presented. And when you finish, not only will you understand the special theory, you will have reasoned it out for yourself, just as Einstein did.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

shashank_digitreader said:
Lets start abt Time travel, first i wanted open it as a another thread, but as the thread's name is changed im goin on here:

source: *www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/think.html

WOW!!!! Can't believe this!!! This cant be true...I think we'll get to see something like this in the next 5 to 10 years...
BYE BYE airlines

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

May be one of us in the Digit Forum is a ALIEN.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Tech Geek said:
May be one of us in the Digit Forum is a ALIEN.

BINGO!!!! I always thought you are one

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

shashank_digitreader said:
Lets start abt Time travel, first i wanted open it as a another thread, but as the thread's name is changed im goin on here:

source: *www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/think.html

Think Like Einstein
by Rick Groleau

Ever...
...Einstein did.

Great link. Thanks.

Raaabo said:
Some theories suggest that the grandfather paradox will never occur, simply because time travel to the past isn’t possible

Well atleast Einstein's theory doesn't say so. According to him we can ttravel in past if we can travel faster than light. Ah yes, you said some theories

Well, for those who don't know how its possible to travel (according to Einstein) by travelling faste than light:
Lets say a dog dies and you get the news(information) next morning that a dog had died. Consider it as travelling at a speed slower than light.
Now if you were at the same location as the dog then you would have got the information exactly when it died. Information travelling at light's speed.
Now if the information could travel at a speed greater than light then you could know about the death of dog before it died. In other words, you could peep into future that is, you current world would get dragged into past.

I heard about "zero power" on discovery around 3-4 years back. They were talking that you can even ride a bicycle moving at a speed faster than light without 'actually' crossing the speed limit (of light). Does anyone have any relative info.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

shashank_digitreader said:
Lets start abt Time travel, first i wanted open it as a another thread, but as the thread's name is changed im goin on here:

source: *www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/think.html

Gr8 link , thanks,

learnt what's happenning

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

what if the speed of train is more than that light?

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

you checked your own link right?

.See, speed of light is constant (as depicted in the image)
In this case they consider the speed of train to be c/2 (where c= speed of light) , even if you increase the speed to c or more than c even then the relative speed of light in both reference frames( 1)person in train, 2) person standing outside) will be still the same i.e., c

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

SE><IE said:
you checked your own link right? .See, speed of light is constant (as depicted in the image)
In this case they consider the speed of train to be c/2 (where c= speed of light) , even if you increase the speed to c or more than c even then the relative speed of light in both reference frames( 1)person in train, 2) person standing outside) will be still the same i.e., c

That's not what shashank asked... he asked what if the train was moving faster than the speed of light... and then turned on it's headlight, what would the observer standing on the ground see...

Interesting question...

there's a theory that if you're travelling faster than the speed of light, and turned on your headlights, observers will still see your headlights travel at the speed of light.

What's more interesting is that you will see time move backwards

so you will see yourself starting to move backwards (away from the observer) instead of forwards (towards him).

The observer will see your headlights (and your train) after you have already passed him, but still, at the speed of light, not faster. This is because C is constant, and we cannot see things moving faster than the speed of light in real-time, we will only see them later (when the light they emit catches up to the point they just passed while moving at a speed faster than light).

Of course, all this is just one theory, because others suggest that in order to attain a speed faster than light, you have to have infinite power to accelerate, and you will become infinite mass.

This is why we currently assume that greater than C speeds are impossible, because if you are travelling at C-1 m/s, time is already almost at a standstill. So in order to accelerate that 1 m/s faster, you have to apply infinite power of acceleration to move any faster.

Raaabo

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
That's not what shashank asked... he asked what if the train was moving faster than the speed of light... and then turned on it's headlight, what would the observer standing on the ground see...

Interesting question...

there's a theory that if you're travelling faster than the speed of light, and turned on your headlights, observers will still see your headlights travel at the speed of light.

What's more interesting is that you will see time move backwards so you will see yourself starting to move backwards (away from the observer) instead of forwards (towards him).

The observer will see your headlights (and your train) after you have already passed him, but still, at the speed of light, not faster. This is because C is constant, and we cannot see things moving faster than the speed of light in real-time, we will only see them later (when the light they emit catches up to the point they just passed while moving at a speed faster than light).

Of course, all this is just one theory, because others suggest that in order to attain a speed faster than light, you have to have infinite power to accelerate, and you will become infinite mass.

This is why we currently assume that greater than C speeds are impossible, because if you are travelling at C-1 m/s, time is already almost at a standstill. So in order to accelerate that 1 m/s faster, you have to apply infinite power of acceleration to move any faster.

Raaabo

thanx raaabo

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

The scenario which Raaabo explained holds good only if the train is moving in parallel direction w.r.t the person. What if the train is approaching the person with already headlight 'ON'? Now what would the person see?

He would first see only the train passing through and then see the headlight!! Moreover the person will be seeing only the headlight without train even after the train has passed through!!

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
That's not what shashank asked..

Ah! forgot to answer the whole thing, left it in the middle. Anyways thanks Raaabo for :

Raaabo said:
So in order to accelerate that 1 m/s faster, you have to apply infinite power of acceleration to move any faster.

Here is something that you may be intersted in

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Kiran_tech_mania said:
The scenario which Raaabo explained holds good only if the train is moving in parallel direction w.r.t the person. What if the train is approaching the person with already headlight 'ON'? Now what would the person see?

He would first see only the train passing through and then see the headlight!! Moreover the person will be seeing only the headlight without train even after the train has passed through!!

Sorry, wrong again! Even if the train was moving at you, you would see the train and headlight together, just that you would see the train after it passed, not while it was passing. That is the only difference, you would NOT see a train without a headlight or headlight without the train. Why? because you can only see light, and you will see the light from the train (reflection or headlight). If the train was travelling faster than light speed, you would still only see at light speed, thus you would see events later than they occurred!

The reason why you will never see the headlight without the train is because though the train may travel faster than the speed of light, what you can SEE does not. The speed of light being constant, the light reflection off the train (which causes you to see it) and the headlight, will always both reach you together.

Raaabo

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

This means that human eye is insensible to speeds greater than light. *whew*

K

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

After reading all those posts it seems that time travel would indeed be possible. But for someone to travel time, they would require a TIME MACHINE (like the ones shown in movies). So can anyone tell me what does a time machine has to do to send a person back and forth in time. In short could someone please EXPLAIN THE CONSTRUCTION AND WORKING OF TIME MACHINE. And if not a time machine then what will be used to send a person back and forth in time?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

^^ Raaabo already explained, one basic requirement to travel back in tim is to travel at speeds greater than the velocity of light. So a time machine, I guess, would be a just such a vehicle.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
Sorry, wrong again! Even if the train was moving at you, you would see the train and headlight together, just that you would see the train after it passed, not while it was passing. That is the only difference, you ......................

Raaabo

Nope. Sorry Raaabo, I can't accept this! Let me explain...
Train is approaching at a speed more than speed of light. I said 5 times the light speed, which is very high. Since it is approaching the person, that means distance is reducing w.r.t time. The light released by the headlight is still travelling at the speed of light which is less than the speed of train. So light released at a time 't' during the travel will reach the person much later than the train in itself. Train will be seen earlier becoz the train is approaching him. Of course the headlight is still seen along with train, but what I said is headlight will be seen even after the train passes through. 5 times light speed is specified for this reason. Might be the difference would have been less if the speed is just slightly higher, not 5 times.

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

@Kiran: Looks like you are considering the speed of light and train as conventional objects. so you see the faster one earlier and then the slower one. If this were to happen then the whole purpose of FTL would have been solved by directly moving at more than light's speed. I don't think FTL is possible by conventional methods though

@raaabo: The avie really suits you. I can see the HDR effect :lol:

okey, here's how to design a time-machine:

Archanid (Skoar!) said:
It's all very simple. It requires a bathtub, a microwave oven, magic jelly-beans, a jar of vaseline, duct tape, solder wire, super glue and a co-pilot.

Now, obviously the bathtub will be the main hull of your time machine. (I tried making a compact model but then there was no room for the stereo). Ok, using duct-tape and soldering wire, you're going to prepare the hull. Cut out 16 strips of 4 feet duct tape. Therefore, you should have 16 strips of duct tape, each measuring 4 feet. Or on total, you meed 64 feet of duct tape. It's not easy to make this at home using grey paints and scotch tape - so maybe you should buy it. Paste this on to the bathtub - moving from your left (assuming that thats the faucet side) to your right. Oh - before that, make sure that the bathtub is empty. Good - now we're rocking. OK - so you've pasted the duct tape - therefore, you should have 8 strips on each side. Make sure that the strips are aligned parallel to the nanometer. Not doing so can cause some serious nasal as well as an*l problems.

Next, take the solder wire and using the super glue, paste this on the duct tape. You can choose any pattern, but personally i find flowery and leafy shapes very pretty. Add's a touch of refinement and finesse, you see.

Good. Basically, what you've done now, is you've created the hull, you've got the circuit board and the circuits in place. Now comes the nice shine that every interstellar time travelling device needs!! Thats where your bottle of vaseline comes in. Of course, if your co-pilot happens to be a fag and so do you, then you better save some for later (just in case it gets lonely in the time you're going to). Great, so smear away the vaseline to give your TARDIS that nice young glow that you want!

Now doing this, not only makes your time machine look pretty, but it also protects it from interstellar bugs and dirt as well as other straight guys who might want to steal your craft.

Excellent - now we're coooking with gas!!!

Now, attach the microwave oven to the back of the bathtub (faucet side). You will need to use the faucet to control direction. Put a few magic jelly beans in the microwave. Enter the time you want to go to and hit start. The nuclear energy released from the cooking jelly beans will instantly transport you to that time!!

I'm trying to improve engine efficiency though, and i feel that the replacement of jelly beans with Britney Spears/C Aguilera/Enriqu tapes/cd's/video's etc should work better, since the probability of people liking them is lesser - significanly lesser than that of people liking magic jelly beans.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

The theory of time travel is weird. As per existing theories, time travel to the future is very possible. Though time travel to the past is not. I'll keep the explanations simple, and am not going to use equations and stuff, so that everyone gets it (I hope)!

Time Travel To The Future
This one is easy! Well, comparatively anyway... Researchers have already proven, using popular experiments that you can Google for, that traveling to the future is easy. All you have to do is travel at speeds comparable to light. The important thing to know here is that light speed is not possible at all right now, but comparable speeds certainly are. What are these speeds? Say, C/2! Or even C/100! Let's stick with C/2 (or half the speed of light) for this example.

Let's say you have this über-cool spaceship that can attain speeds of half the speed of light. We will ignore the time taken to accelerate to that speed, or the time taken to decelerate...

Bodies in motion experience what is known as relative time, i.e., the time that a body experiences is different from rest time. This has been proven by syncing two atomic clocks, placing one on the ground and the other in a really fast moving fighter jet / rocket (I forget which). After hours of zipping about at the vehicles top speed it was found that the clock on the ground was a second faster than the one zipping about in the vehicle. Why? Because if you were to travel at light speed, time = 0 (or time comes to a standstill). You can find all the equations that prove this online. And remember, this was just jet planes / rockets, which travel at just a negligible fraction of the speed of light

Now, imagine that you were traveling at C/2, time would really slow down then. Though not exactly correct, let us assume for the sake of example and ease of calculation that relative time slowed to 1/2 of absolute time at a speed of C/2.

You get on to your über cool rocket, you hit the speed of C/2, and travel for one year in a direction away from Earth. Then you turn around, and take another year to come back. You left in 2008, Earth time, and return at what you think is 2010. You find that it's actually 2012 on Earth, because time was moving at double the speed on Earth! Congratulations, you have just traveled 2 years into the future!

Time Travel To The Past
This is a little more complicated because it involves faster than light travel, which is not even possible in theory right now. Well, according to most theories anyway! Let’s assume that you could now travel at 2C (twice the speed of light), and let’s also assume for simplicity that time at C =0 then time at 2C = -t (or that you end up traveling back into the past the same duration that you travel).

Use the same scenario as the future: you travel at 2C for a year away, and then at 2C for a year back. In your time, you have traveled 2 years, left at 2008 and return at 2010 your time, but you find that on earth, it’s 2006!

Of course many people claim that this is just not possible. Theories claim that you will actually end up 2 years older, but end up back at the time you left ( 2008 ). So relatively, you’re in the past (2 years ago), but from Earth’s timeframe, you just never left!

Another theory is that you an see the events of the past, but never interact with them. Let’s say you have a really powerful telescope that can see distances of light years away. Now you travel at 2C for a year and stop. You are 2 light years away from Earth. You use your telescope to see what’s happening on earth, and instead of seeing what happening on Earth a year ago when you left (since light takes 2 years to travel to where you are, you took only 1 year) you see what is happening 1 year before you left! You have seen the past!

People often ask if time travel to the past were possible, even 10,000 years from now, where are all the time travelers? One theory suggests that in order to avoid a paradoxical situation, time travel is only possible to the past until the time machine existed, not before. But if you make a time machine, and it can’t travel to the past, how do you know it works? How do you test it?

The most plausible possibility to visit the past is superluminal (faster than light) travel. Even then, travelers might only look at the past, not interact with it, because as soon as they reduce speed to less than light speed they start moving forward in time from the reference point they left (our future).

Is this why we see UFOs? Maybe they’re not aliens at all, but just our future human explorers setting off for far away galaxies using faster than light travel. Since they travel faster than light, they appear (to themselves) to be traveling back in time… let’s take an example, in the year 3000, a ship leaves Earth, it ascends through the atmosphere into space, then starts accelerating and hits C very quickly, then it accelerates even further, to say 1000 C for a year. During this time, the pilot sees himself traveling back in time to his rest point, then sees the Earth go backwards in time a thousand years. Now, since he took off at, say Area 51, there is a possibility that when he accelerates to 1000C from C, almost instantaneously, people from 1000 years ago (year 2000) see an image of him, because he can see them. Is this what UFOs are? When he reaches his destination, he will slow down, and as a result disappear from the year 2000. Is this why UFOs suddenly appear and then disappear?

Or maybe it’s none of that, and UFOs are populated by humans from the future, who have been warned not to mess with the space time continuum, and thus cannot land and chat with us. They can see us, but not talk to us. Are the abductions we hear about actually rogue criminals from the future trying to change history to suit themselves?

As you can see, it’s all vague and guesswork when it comes to traveling to the past, the future, however, is fair game.

A sci-fi book I read once (don’t remember the name), told of the first near-light speed travelers. They set off in a ship that attained 0.8 x C, traveled for decades (in their time) to try and get to Andromeda. They reached there, and found that humans had already populated planets in Andromeda. In fact, technology had advanced, and humans attained C and were thriving on planets in Andromeda for centuries. At 0.8 x C, what was a few decades to the travelers was in fact a thousand years to people on Earth. The Captain of the ship finds that his own children were the pioneers of light speed travel, and reached Andromeda at C about 500 years before he did. They were dead and gone, and he met his great-great-great-grandchildren! He was 30 years older, but arrived at Andromeda 1000 years (Earth time) later! Travel to the future!

Kiran_tech_mania said:
Nope. Sorry Raaabo, I can't accept this! Let me explain...
Train is approaching at a speed more than speed of light. I said 5 times the light speed, which is very high. Since it is approaching the person, that means distance is reducing w.r.t time. The light released by the headlight is still travelling at the speed of light which is less than the speed of train. So light released at a time 't' during the travel will reach the person much later than the train in itself. Train will be seen earlier becoz the train is approaching him. Of course the headlight is still seen along with train, but what I said is headlight will be seen even after the train passes through. 5 times light speed is specified for this reason. Might be the difference would have been less if the speed is just slightly higher, not 5 times.

I know it’s hard to understand. But you have to accept the theories put across by the greatest minds on Earth, after all these are their theories, not mine. Let me explain how:

First let me explain why the observer standing still will always see the train and the headlight, and never either one.

What you see is light, which travels at C (light speed constant). You are unable to see anything that moves faster than light. Even if the train was traveling at 5C, all you will see is the train (providing you have a camera or eyes with a refresh rate / shutter speed of 1/C or lower) moving at the speed of light, never faster. Yes, you will see the train when it is actually very, very far away, and has gone past much before you saw it, but you will see both the train and it’s headlights. Why? Because you are only seeing at the speed of light. The time the train takes to pass you is negligible, and you will obviously not see the headlights or train once it has gone past. See diagram:

*raaabo.com/time1.jpg

Now remember, what the observer sees is light that travels at the speed of light. Not faster, not slower. So you see a train that is traveling at the speed of light, as light actually. Similarly, you see the headlight as light. Therefore both will be seen coming together, and both will be seen leaving together. In reality what you will see is just a flash of light switching on and off (coming and going past you).

Let’s look at another example: A train traveling faster than the speed of sound, and blowing its horn… You will see it go past you, then you will hear a sonic boom and hear the train and its horn after it has already passed you. This is what you are thinking is the case with light, which isn’t. Simply because anything that is faster than light is just not observable by us, while we can observe what is faster than sound, simply because we can see light.

Just as we cannot hear faster than sound, we cannot see faster than light. And before you think about asking whether you will feel the rush of air an hour before you see the train traveling past you, think again.

You only feel the rush of air when a train is near you. You can only see a certain distance away. The speed of light negates all of these distances because it is so great. You will always see something before you hear it or feel it. As in the diagram below, you can only see the train a certain distance away, and until it passes you. The ways you see the train are: light reflected from it and its headlights. In the diagram below, the first case (top) is where you will spot the train, the last (bottom) is where it goes out of sight.

*raaabo.com/time2.jpg

Though in reality the time difference is negligible, so you will only see a light flash, let’s say you have amazing eyesight, and can perceive things on a scale of light speeds (not greater). You will see the train approach, with headlights, and see it leave, with headlights… again, simply because the train may be traveling faster than the speed of light, but all you can see at is light speed!

There is complicated mathematics at play here and I suggest you see *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_addition_formula, for more details.

Using this you can calculate that the velocity relative to the observer is always C or less than C, but never greater.

From *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light
At velocities at or approaching the speed of light, however, it becomes clear from experimental results that this rule does not apply. Two spaceships approaching each other, each travelling at 90% the speed of light relative to some third observer between them, do not perceive each other as approaching at 90% + 90% = 180% the speed of light; instead they each perceive the other as approaching at slightly less than 99.5% the speed of light.

This last result is given by the Einstein velocity addition formula:
*upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/2/3/923c39ef0a72dbd766407d58a8cbdde2.png
where v and w are the speeds of the spaceships as observed by the third observer, and u is the speed of either space ship as observed by the other.

Contrary to one's usual intuitions, regardless of the speed at which one observer is moving relative to another observer, both will measure the speed of an incoming light beam as the same constant value, the speed of light.

I hope it’s clear now, because, as you can see from my post, I’m having trouble trying to explain it in simple terms!

Raaabo

PS: Forgive the crappy images, I'm no artist

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Whoa!! Impressive.
Okey, I got it. You can't see anything faster than light because light itself is needed to be reflected off from the object which (light) can't travel more than C.
Its pretty similar to sound, you can't hear anything if it travels at speeds exceeding those of sound. But you can see (say, a plane) cuz you were using a faster sensory organ (eyes).
Consider the case of a blind person. Can he distinguish between sonic and super-sonic velocities? No.
Similarly we can't distinguish between at-light's-speed and FTL-speed.
Hope you got it

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I should pay more attention to this thread, some very interesting topics being discussed. It's a nice read!

@Raaabo: Very informative post, this last one.

I'm going to save myself from googling and instead post my doubt here instead. (Apologies, if they've been addressed before)

It's all very exciting to explore the theory behind high-speed, space & time travelling. But how practical is it? To be more precise, what are the physiological side-effects of high-speed travels on the human body and mind? Have we overcome this hurdle, or is work underway?

--------
I will talk now a bit on UFOs and aliens, people who claim they've seen them (UFOs in general). In particular those who claim they've made physical contact(as in seeing an alien being) and those who claim to have been abducted by them. And this is all based on a documentary on NGC that I'd watched some time back; will try to recollect as much as I can.

There is a stereotype involved in most of the abductees' explanation of events as they unfolded, based on researched data, and it always revolves around the subject waking up from sleep, finding their room illuminated by a bright light, seeing 'figures' in their vicinity; the subject is unable to move and feels paralyzed and then the subject gets 'abducted'.
As far as I can remember, clinical procedures in Japan had proved that this is all a scenario of dream-induced stupor by brain mapping. In this hyperactive state, people often dream of various things and find themselves doing various activities, walking not the least of them. The brain actually 'switches off' the region that is responsible for controlling motor functions of the body so the person who's dreaming doesn't actually get up and start 'living his dream'. But sometimes, in those rare instances, it forgets to 'switch on' the region back to normal once the dreaming bit is over. People suffer temporary paralysis in this state and the resulting experiences (re: bright light, figures in vicinity, etc.) are other 'side-effects'. Also there was an indication that abductees those who've gone for therapy, have explained their experiences pertaining to specific questions in a hypnotized state asked by the shrink. This questioning and the cues of those questions is what's supposed to have made them believe what they believe in the first place.

I'm not doing justice to this little commentary by recalling only bits and pieces of the documentary, for which I apologize.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Apollo said:
It's all very exciting to explore the theory behind high-speed, space & time travelling. But how practical is it? To be more precise, what are the physiological side-effects of high-speed travels on the human body and mind? Have we overcome this hurdle, or is work underway?

No we haven't even overcome the hurdle of space sickness or AIDS, so we're obviously very far from tackling the problems of close to light speed travel. We haven't even found a way to accelerate anything bigger than an atom to anything in the vicinity of C.

When we do have that kind of power, we might be able to test it on chimpanzees and then humans

Raaabo

K

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I think only something as small as an atom could travel at the speed of light. Anything bigger will probably be shred to pieces before getting even close to the speed of light. Aeroplanes capable of Mach 3 speeds boasts of aerodynamics no other plane can. Just imagine how aerodynamic does a ship capable of speed of light would be. Even if they would manage to make a super aerodynamic ship capable of achieving the speed of light without breaking into pieces, would they manage to fit a human being inside? And what about the G-forces acting on the person accelerating so fast? Only pilots with extraordinary capabilities are capable of bearing the G-forces of a Mach 3 plane. What about the pilots of ships travelling at the speed of light?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Has anybody thought what an observer will see if the train is travelling at speeds in excess of light? Look at the diagrams.

This is the normal case

*i13.tinypic.com/2z5j876.gif

This will what happen at speeds in excess of light

*i10.tinypic.com/2vakvbm.gif

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
I know it’s hard to understand. But you have to accept the theories put across by the greatest minds on Earth, after all these are their theories, not mine. Let me explain how:

First let me explain why the observer standing still will always see the train and the headlight, and never either one.

What you see is light, which travels at C (light speed constant). You are unable to see anything that moves faster than light. Even if the train was traveling at 5C, all you will see is the train (providing you have a camera or eyes with a refresh rate / shutter speed of 1/C or lower) moving at the speed of light, never faster. ..........

Thanks for efforts and explaining in detail about it.
It's really hard to illustrate by words as to what exactly happens at that point. My point is simple which I am unable to convey to you properly.You are right that the person can still see light in a flash. Please understand that the person will see both headlight and train at same time, but the light released by the headlight much earlier during its travel will reach the person after the train has passed through because it is travelling at the speed of light only. It is true that no one can imagine to see an object travelling at 5 times the speed of light. In our case the person is a virtual machine which has got high-speed camera.

The image is self illustrative
*img201.imageshack.us/img201/8553/lightkk5.png

Moreover it is impossible to construct an object which can travel at such high-speeds. Infact the time machine whiuch we are all talking about would also never be an object that humans will manufacture. It's rather a place in the Universe, which the humans will exploit such as Black holes, Worm holes etc.

And yes you are a good artist! ;-)

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Kiran_tech_mania said:
Thanks for efforts and explaining in detail about it.
It's really hard to illustrate by words as to what exactly happens at that point. My point is simple which I am unable to convey to you properly.You are right that the person can still see light in a flash. Please understand that the person will see both headlight and train at same time, but the light released by the headlight much earlier during its travel will reach the person after the train has passed through because it is travelling at the speed of light only. It is true that no one can imagine to see an object travelling at 5 times the speed of light. In our case the person is a virtual machine which has got high-speed camera.

The image is self illustrative
*img201.imageshack.us/img201/8553/lightkk5.png

Moreover it is impossible to construct an object which can travel at such high-speeds. Infact the time machine whiuch we are all talking about would also never be an object that humans will manufacture. It's rather a place in the Universe, which the humans will exploit such as Black holes, Worm holes etc.

And yes you are a good artist!

Again, you're missing the point. Where is the headlight coming from? The train? So if the headlight exists at the first point, then the train must have existed there as well... right? So if we can see the light, then we should be able to see the train as well? Yes?

See the image:
*raaabo.com/time3.jpg

At every observable point, both the train and the headlight exist. Even if the train were travelling 5 times faster than the speed of light. The train's headlights are on the train, and at any given point, light is reflecting off the train, and also being emitted from it's headlights. Since what you see, as an observer, is only light, not the motion of the train at 5C, you will always see both the train and the headlight together.

If you now want to say that you have a camera that can capture fast enough to see 5 times the speed of light, then you are not from this dimension, and neither is your camera. Because cameras can only record light, which moves at C not 5 x C. So this argument is pointless, unless you want to insist on a 5th dimension technology that can transcend time and the speed of light.

The fact remains that an obersever will always see the train and the headlights. He may see it moving backwards as blackpearl has illustrated, but he will see both together. Never just the headlight, and never just the train. I hope it's clear now.

Anyway, backwards or forwards, all you will see is a flash

Raaabo

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

OK, what basically you mean to say is we can't see train and headlight separately because we are bound in 4th dimention. The fastest thing for us is C and we can't see beyond it.
If we lived where 5C was the norm then we would have seen train and headlight together after 5C too(just like C in our case)
*gulp*

If you now want to say that you have a camera that can capture fast enough to see 5 times the speed of light, then you are not from this dimension, and neither is your camera. Because cameras can only record light, which moves at C not 5 x C. So this argument is pointless, unless you want to insist on a 5th dimension technology that can transcend time and the speed of light.

This made it clear

M

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

5th dimension! People are having a great difficulty digesting the 4th dimension. If there exists a 5th dimension. It will takes thousands of years for common man to understand all those dimensions.

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

commerce students here? I hope you aren't drunk :lol:

M

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I am just about managing to understand the 4th dimension though not so well. Yeah as a commerce student we don't understand these things so well.
And where does drinking come in? Anyways I don't drink at all.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

One thing is clear that Their is no UFOs or Aliens exists in this universe...It's all Fake!

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

^^how come you're sure that its a fake???

we still havent left our Galaxy to explore the others.

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

reddick said:
One thing is clear that Their is no UFOs or Aliens exists in this universe...It's all Fake!

then prove it.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

reddick said:
One thing is clear that Their is no UFOs or Aliens exists in this universe...It's all Fake!

Hmmm! THen what do you think is happening in this thread with such a huge discussion & readership? Go through the entire contents taking your own sweet time & then try to quote the same!

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

OK, now I'm going to jump to something different, the Bermuda Triangle. Actually, there is enough stuff to discuss about bermuda triangle and that topic probably demands a seperate thread, if others are willing. Anyway, the reason I mention bermuda triangle here is a story, a true story, according to the writer that has some connection to the topic being discussed here. I request the interested persons to read it. The only hint I can give is by quoting the last line of the story. It says:

"We had traveled through 100 miles of space and 30 minutes of time in a little more than three minutes."

*www.bermuda-triangle.org/html/bruce_gernon.html

Read it and tell me what do you think of it.

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

blackpearl said:
"We had traveled through 100 miles of space and 30 minutes of time in a little more than three minutes."

i didnt understand

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Read the article and you'll come to know

Anyways, coming back to the train and 5C speed. What if we somehow manage to build a railway track in the hypothetical 5D universe, capture the video using camera capable of sharp-shooting even at 10C, convert the video format to earhtly one and view it at an extremely slow speed. I suppose we can see the train and lights separate then

@Raabo: In the book you read, humans travel at .9C (appx) and reach andromeda at a later time (cuz, their own children had died some 500 years back). How can this be possible? This means the normal people (even if they had decades as against a few years fo those on spaceship) also employed a super-fast spaceship to reach there; perhaps comparable to C. Which is opposite to what was said. Why didn't the time-dilation take place for normal people (as they reached before the spaceship)
Bit confusing

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

s18000rpm said:
^^how come you're sure that its a fake???

we still havent left our Galaxy to explore the others.

Because they haven't met me yet! :lol:

Well I'm talking abt majority...70% of people think that UFOs does'nt exists

google for it n u'll understand my theory

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

One website attempts to explain this. I'm copy pasting it.

I am driving my car at the speed of light and I turn on my headlights. What do I see?

Sadly this question and all others about experiences at the speed of light do not have a definitive answer. You cannot go at the speed of light so the question is hypothetical. Hypothetical questions do not have definitive answers. Only massless particles such as photons can go at the speed of light. As a massive object approaches the speed of light the amount of energy needed to accelerate it further increases so that an infinite amount would be needed to reach the speed of light.

Sometimes people persist: What would the world look like in the reference frame of a photon? What does a photon experience? Does space contract to two dimensions at the speed of light? Does time stop for a photon?. . . It is really not possible to make sense of such questions and any attempt to do so is bound to lead to paradoxes. There are no inertial reference frames in which the photon is at rest so it is hopeless to try to imagine what it would be like in one. Photons do not have experiences. There is no sense in saying that time stops when you go at the speed of light. This is not a failing of the theory of relativity. There are no inconsistencies revealed by these questions. They just don't make sense.

Despite these empty answers, nobody should feel too put down for asking such questions. They are exactly the kind of question that Einstein often asked himself from the age of 16 until he discovered special relativity ten years later. Einstein reported that in 1896 he thought,

``If I pursue a beam of light with the velocity c (velocity of light in a vacuum), I should observe such a beam of light as a spatially oscillatory electromagnetic field at rest. However, there seems to be no such thing, whether on the basis of experience or according to Maxwell's equations. From the very beginning it appeared to me intuitively clear that, judged from the standpoint of such an observer, everything would have to happen according to the same laws as for an observer who, relative to the earth, was at rest. For how, otherwise, should the first observer know, i.e., be able to determine, that he is in a state of fast uniform motion? One sees that in this paradox the germ of the special relativity theory is already contained. Today everyone knows, of course, that all attempts to clarify this paradox satisfactorily were condemned to failure as long as the axiom of the absolute character of time, viz., of a simultaneous, unrecognizedly was anchored in the unconscious. Clearly to recognize this axiom and its arbitrary character really implies already the solution to the problem.''

In 1905 he realised how it could be that light always goes at the same speed no matter how fast you go. Events that are simultaneous in one reference frame will happen at different times in another that has a velocity relative to the first. Space and time cannot be taken as absolute. On this basis Einstein constructed the theory of special relativity, which has since been well confirmed by experiment.

Questions of relative velocity in relativity can be answered using the velocity subtraction formula v = (w - u)/(1 - wu/c2) (see relativity FAQ: velocity addition). If you are driving at a speed u relative to me and you measure the speed of light in the same direction (w = c in my frame), the formula gives v the speed of light in your reference frame as, v = (c-u)/(1 - u/c). For any speed u less than c this gives v = c so the speed of light is the same for you. But if u = c the formula degenerates to zero divided by zero; a meaningless answer.

If you want to know what happens when you are driving at very nearly the speed of light, an answer can be given. Within your car you observe no unusual effects. You can look at yourself in your mirror which is moving with the car and you will look the same as usual. Looking out of the window is a different matter. The light from your headlights will always go at the speed of light in your reference frame. It will strike any object in its path and be reflected back. Everything else will be coming towards you at nearly the speed of light, so the light reflected from it will be Doppler shifted to very high frequencies--towards the ultraviolet or beyond. If you have a suitable camera you could take a snapshot. The objects passing are contracted in length but because of the different times of passage for the light and effects of aberration, the snapshot will show the objects you pass as rotated.

*math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/headlights.html

I hope this clears some confusion. Also those who are following this thread out of interest, should also go through the following discussions from physicsforum.com

What causes time to progress?
Time dilation. I don't get it
Time dilation, twin paradox and others

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

reddick said:
Because they haven't met me yet!
Well I'm talking abt majority...70% of people think that UFOs does'nt exists google for it n u'll understand my theory

we cant say Alien's dont exist, reason..they might be just as intelligent as us-- NO Space Travel Yet

& another reason, We havent Left our Galaxy (or the Solar System itself) yet.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

maybe the cloud on bermuda triangle was a small worm hole and it warped them through time.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Ray said:
maybe the cloud on bermuda triangle was a small worm hole and it warped them through time.

Thats exactly what I m thinking.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I didn't want to post in this thread because of the bitter experience before. But, I'm amazed with all this pseudo-techno-discussion going around in here. IMO, a baby learns to crawl before it can stand up straight and walk, let alone run blindly in all nakedness of a narcissist.

Sure, it's all fine and dandy talking about aliens, time-travel et al. Makes us feel special and gifted, doesn't it? This is exactly the point of both science and religions. Religions made us believe that we were offsprings of gods - divine and royal. That we were destined to rule the Earth and take all we ever wanted to. That the stars and other celestial bodies were revolving around us. That the whole shebang existed because we did. And the Earth was flat, so we could walk easily on our feet. Too convenient to be true, ain't it?

Science is the new religion; at least a better attempt at it. Promises haven't changed much, and neither have the believers. Now we have simple formula for everything known and unknown to the mankind. As they say, Mathematics is the language of God! Sure, there are more contradictions than proofs, but they still teach it to children much the same way their ancestors were teaching religious texts. The truth is, only a few enlightened among us truly understand what, where, how and why we are. Only a few will accept that there are no universal laws that define the mechanics of the Universe. And I doubt if there's any who can explain what exactly the Universe is, or if it exists at all. Others, like us minions, blindly believe them, because we are promised in our school days that science has all the answers to all the questions ever asked. Or does it?

I have my doubts. I've long been called an 'unbeliever', and rightly so. There is a lot to say on my side, but respecting the title of this thread, I'm starting with a simple question. Let's see if we can find an answer, for without one we wouldn't even expect any aliens or time-travel anytime soon.

What is time?

And, please keep the "4th dimension" crap out of context if you can't explain it or don't understand it yourself.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

whew ....... sum serious discussion goin on here !!!

but sum nice info ... though i too support non-existence of aliens

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

@ yamaraj: time

The link may look stupid but read it, it does give lots of info.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

SE><IE said:
@ yamaraj: time
The link may look stupid but read it, it does give lots of info.

Oh dear! You didn't have to point me in that direction. You didn't get the sarcasm.

I want to know how many of those discussing time-travel actually understand what time really is. Because time doesn't exist, and you can't travel back-n-forth in nothingness.

M

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

So then how is it considered the 4th dimension and how do we see passage of nothingness.
I don't really know how to define time.
Please can u shed some light here?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

tech_your_future said:
So then how is it considered the 4th dimension and how do we see passage of nothingness.
I don't really know how to define time.
Please can u shed some light here?

I don't know either. To be frank, nobody knows but everyone pretends to know about it. We sure do change gradually, and many other things do. But a change in state doesn't give birth to a new dimension.

Given enough time and motivation, our talented scientists will even come up with a gazillion dimensions. Wait, they already have! Here you can enjoy the "Tenth Dimension" - *www.tenthdimension.com

Physicists consider time as 4th dimension simply because it helps them in calculations and assumptions. We, as mere mortals, have the tendency to assume that everything has a beginning and an end. Well, what if the Universe (or should I call it 'Multiverse' now?) never started with a loud bang, and it's never going to end? Do we really understand what this 'thing' is? Countless of scientists have come and gone with their theories, but not a single person can claim to understand even the "time" itself, let alone Universe or Multiverse.

Recently, I watched a video, which was about the accuracy of the Gravitational Constant and Multiverses. Many scientists in that video agreed that the constant and many other things were exceptionally fine tuned for everything to exist as it does. And we are talking about the fine-tuning of Einstein's Cosmological constant within 120 orders of magnitude. That means: -

The cosmological constant can be considered as the intrinsic mass and volume of empty space, which Einstein had suggested was not zero. It turns out that this number needs to be set to an accuracy of one part in a trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion. Any minuscule variation and life is a non-starter.

Now there are two sects within physicists - one, that believes in Intelligent Design and/or Simulation Argument, and another, that's trying to come up with an "Infinite Universes (Multiverse)" theory.

Fine-tuned Universe - *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe
Is Life only a dream - *www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1358588,00.html

Read these too: -

0. *www.channel4.com/science/microsites/W/what_we_still_dont_know/index.html
1. *www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Cosmo/FineTune.pdf
2. *news-service.stanford.edu/news/2003/april9/cosmos-42.html
3. *www.wisdomportal.com/Stanford/UniverseOrMultiverse.html
4. *www.strange-loops.com/athanthropic.html
5. *www.ics.uci.edu/~asuncion/fine_tuned.htm
6. *www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1555132-1,00.html

Hmm, so we were talking about time-travel? Anyone for a trip to "Nothingness"?

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Geez, Thanks yamaraj. Even I saw string theory concept in discovery.

Anyways, here's a forum from your link *www.tenthdimension.com/phpbb/index.php

Dunno what to say; Overhead Transmission

__________
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#See_also
Lots of info

K

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

One teeny-tiny question: Why does one hear a Sonic BOOOOM when an aircraft travelling faster than sound goes by?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

krazyfrog said:
One teeny-tiny question: Why does one hear a Sonic BOOOOM when an aircraft travelling faster than sound goes by?

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Originally Posted by DeSmOnD dAvId
Before seeing the video, ask yourself a few questions:
-Why do UFOs be seen only in other parts of the world and not in India?
-How can some intellingent being several lightyears away com to contact us?

Originally Posted by amitava82
i have a question to ask:
- How many Indians know WHAT IS AN UFO? ask - not yourself, your neighbour.

Man it was Damn funny

...u really got a gr8 sence of humor

well this topic is controversial the more we say the lesser we know in Actual.......

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Hi, sorry was busy finishing off the January issue. Let's get back to the whole complicated mess that this thread has become:

yamraj said:
Sure, it's all fine and dandy talking about aliens, time-travel et al. Makes us feel special and gifted, doesn't it? This is exactly the point of both science and religions. Religions made us believe that we were offsprings of gods - divine and royal. That we were destined to rule the Earth and take all we ever wanted to. That the stars and other celestial bodies were revolving around us. That the whole shebang existed because we did. And the Earth was flat, so we could walk easily on our feet. Too convenient to be true, ain't it?

Science is the new religion; at least a better attempt at it. Promises haven't changed much, and neither have the believers. Now we have simple formula for everything known and unknown to the mankind. As they say, Mathematics is the language of God! Sure, there are more contradictions than proofs, but they still teach it to children much the same way their ancestors were teaching religious texts. The truth is, only a few enlightened among us truly understand what, where, how and why we are. Only a few will accept that there are no universal laws that define the mechanics of the Universe. And I doubt if there's any who can explain what exactly the Universe is, or if it exists at all. Others, like us minions, blindly believe them, because we are promised in our school days that science has all the answers to all the questions ever asked. Or does it?

You clearly do not understand the very clear difference between science and religion... let me elucidate:

Two scenarios:
1: I can use biology and chemistry to explain everything called a “miracle” in the Bible.
2: I can prove Einstein wrong using mathematics and physics.

What do you think would happen at the end of both cases? In the first case, the Church would hush me up, make up some new stories, ignore me; I’d get death threats; preachers would condemn and curse me… you get the drift…

In the second, I would be asked to prove it, and once I did, it would make front page news, I would be given a Nobel prize; I’d get millions of dollars in grant money and be written about in text books…

The difference here is that Religion is based on things that have already happened, on events, and is based solely on faith and belief. Religion does not work without this “faith”, simply because it cannot be either proven or disproven.

Science on the other hand is quite simply humans trying to understand the world around them, and using logic to do so. There is no “faith”. Even when something cannot be proven, it is estimated using current knowledge. The Earth was the center of the universe; it was flat. The sun rotated around the Earth, as did the moon and all the other planets and stars. Then we discovered that the earth was an oblate spheroid, and rotated!.

Bottom line: Science welcomes change, so long as it is backed by concrete evidence; religion discourages it. The only way a person could equate the two is if he treated science like a religion, and just accepted what he was told instead of understanding and questioning. Perhaps it was because of lack of interest, bad teachers, rote learning… whatever…

yamraj said:
I have my doubts. I've long been called an 'unbeliever', and rightly so. There is a lot to say on my side, but respecting the title of this thread, I'm starting with a simple question. Let's see if we can find an answer, for without one we wouldn't even expect any aliens or time-travel anytime soon.

[color=“red”]What is time? And, please keep the "4th dimension" crap out of context if you can't explain it or don't understand it yourself. I want to know how many of those discussing time-travel actually understand what time really is. Because time doesn't exist, and you can't travel back-n-forth in nothingness.[/color]

I don't know either. To be frank, nobody knows but everyone pretends to know about it. We sure do change gradually, and many other things do. [color=”red”]But a change in state doesn't give birth to a new dimension. Physicists consider time as 4th dimension simply because it helps them in calculations and assumptions.[/color]

The easiest thing to do is label yourself an unbeliever, because it exempts you from having to take the trouble to understand. Let’s see if I can get a definition of time, not from “stupid” textbooks, or “religious scientists”, but from my own understanding:

Time: The first dimension for every object that exists as matter in our universe.

What this means is that, even subatomic particles, which are the closest things we know of to “nothingness” experience time, and are thus one dimensional objects.

A point is thus one-dimensional, a line, 2-dimensional, a plane, 3-dimensional, everything else, 4-dimensional — us included.

Consider this:
If you and your entire universe that you see, exist on just a plane. You are therefore a point or a line, and your universe is the plane. This is a three-dimensional universe, considering that X, Y (axes) and Time are the measurements of the three dimensions. Now, I am a 4th dimension normal human, who also experiences time, in addition to X, Y, and Z axes as measurements.

What if I were to insert a ruler into your universe (the plane). You would see a line appear, and when I removed the ruler, you would see the line disappear. No motion, no movement, just appearing and disappearing. This would stupefy you! If time did not exist, you would not see the line, you would not notice anything change, ever.

You are bound by limits: the distance you can see on the X axis, the same for the Y axis, and Time. Since these limits do not allow for a Z axis, which it does only for me (in this example), my ruler is nothing short of magic and mystique to 3-dimensional planar beings. Now consider the same trick being played on linear (2-dimensional) beings by planar (3-dimensional) beings, and then again by linear beings on point beings (uni-dimensional), and you will see that this trick of being from a superior-dimension stops at point beings. This means that the first dimension is time, and there’s nothing (currently perceivable, at least) that’s below the dimension of time.

If this is not clear, try and understand what the word “dimension” means. It is nothing but a measurement. This is why a box, 10x10x10 cm is measured 10 cm on the X, Y and Z axes, but can also be measured as “2 years old”. If it can be measured, in a perceivable way, then it must be a dimension. Because humanity has already measured and mapped X, Y and Z axes as three unique dimensions, to avoid confusion, time is called the 4th dimension. In fact, it is the first dimension.

An interesting question this raises is that if you travel faster than light, will you actually experience the 5th dimension, or are you actually becoming dimension-less (the Zero-dimension).

yamraj said:
Hmm, so we were talking about time-travel? Anyone for a trip to "Nothingness"?

Dimension-less, perhaps, “nothingness” is the wrong word to use.

Now I’m tired of typing, and I’m sure there will be some replies and disagreements, so I’ll save the rest as replies to those…

Raaabo

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

the U.S. has its prisons full of green skinned aliens. ;-)

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

yamaraj said:
Hmm, so we were talking about time-travel? Anyone for a trip to "Nothingness"?

Time is a dimension, its the 4th dimension. Time isn't what we see on our watch, actually. Its some kind of a property that changes with velocity. Its difficult to explain because nobody really knows about it much.

You should read this discussion here
*www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=147073

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

blackpearl said:
Time is a dimension, its the 4th dimension. Time isn't what we see on our watch, actually. Its some kind of a property that changes with velocity. Its difficult to explain because nobody really knows about it much.

You should read this discussion here
*www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=147073

I highly disagree. Is there any concrete scientific proof to back your emphasized statement? Only because Einstein thought of it as 4th dimension, accepting it as "The Truth" would only validate my claim that science indeed is a modernized religion. That there is a blind following and a sense of elitism among the enlightened few.

I'm currently in the process of writing a reply to Raaabo's post, so please hold your horses until I finish with it. ;-)

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

^^^ You want "concrete scintific proof"? just look around dude and do some reading rather than wasting your time arguing here. 100 years have passed since Einstein proposed the theory of relativity and it has remained unchallenged till now. Do you really think scientist and physicist are nuts to believe in something that isn't proved? and that too for 100 yrs?? Do you think they believe in the theory of relativity just because he was Einstein? Nobody knew einstein when he gave that theory and nobody believed in him either, and besides he was just 26 years old!!! Yes, only 26, the age when most people are still struggling with basic physics and calculus. Most people laughed him off!! It was only after several years and after countless experiments did his theories were accepted.

You really need to do some good reading.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

^ No offense, but you need to widen your thought process. And, I've done more reading on the subject than "most" lurking around this thread. There is no such thing as "eternal truth" or "absolute" in science, per se. Newton's theory held on for more than two centuries before it was proved not to work in some situations. That's the reason Einstein came up with his Theory of Relativity. But, even this theory doesn't work, or come up with expected results in some cases. Scientists have long been trying to overcome these limitations by searching for a more Universal theory, and inventing parallel Universes, Ether, Dark Matter, Neutralino etc.

Do you even know what a "dimension" is? Time cannot be the 4th dimension, for it doesn't qualify as a spatial dimension. You cannot move backward or forward in time.

How many of you actually think that "theories" like Big Bang, String and M-theory cannot be, or haven't been challenged? In fact, to merely qualify as a hypethesis/proposition/theory, the idea must at least be falsifiable.

Next time, think twice before you come up with childish comments.
__________

Raaabo said:
You clearly do not understand the very clear difference between science and religion...

It's a very personal opinion, and a flawed one to begin with.

Raaabo said:
let me elucidate:

Two scenarios:
1: I can use biology and chemistry to explain everything called a “miracle” in the Bible.
2: I can prove Einstein wrong using mathematics and physics.

What do you think would happen at the end of both cases? In the first case, the Church would hush me up, make up some new stories, ignore me; I’d get death threats; preachers would condemn and curse me… you get the drift…

First of all - why prefer Christianity/Bible/Church to seemingly more tolerant religions that embrace scientific discoveries quite well and often end up having different branches and spin-offs dealing with these issues? Semitic "religions" are only cults with huge follower-base. You seem to ignore the fact that Hinduism was/is quite open to scientific ideas.

No, I didn't get the drift, for it presented a very biased view to me.

Raaabo said:
In the second, I would be asked to prove it, and once I did, it would make front page news, I would be given a Nobel prize; I’d get millions of dollars in grant money and be written about in text books…

Not quite! If you were familiar with the inherent politics of scientific community, you wouldn't have said that. Your "proof" could outright be ignored and laughed at, depending on the mood and affliation of the scientific community members. History is full of such examples.

Besides, you couldn't prove/reproduce the same miracles with the help of science when these religions flourished some 2000 years ago, could you?

Raaabo said:
The difference here is that Religion is based on things that have already happened, on events, and is based solely on faith and belief. Religion does not work without this “faith”, simply because it cannot be either proven or disproven.

And, science is based on observations, which are in turn dependent on our senses and limitations of human understanding. Just like we don't expect rats to build rockets and fly great distances, we also cannot claim to have enough brainpower to know-it-all.

Raaabo said:
Science on the other hand is quite simply humans trying to understand the world around them, and using logic to do so. There is no “faith”. Even when something cannot be proven, it is estimated using current knowledge. The Earth was the center of the universe; it was flat. The sun rotated around the Earth, as did the moon and all the other planets and stars. Then we discovered that the earth was an oblate spheroid, and rotated!.

While it may not be as apparant to the "common man", there is a lot of faith and belief going on within the scientific community. There are theories without any proof, and even many theoretical physicists disagree with them. Yet, most of the populations takes theories like Big Bang and String theory for granted. In fact, theoretical physics is closer to fiction/religion than it is to the "traditional" scientific ways. Do you know that the Dark Matter accounts for more than 96% of the whole Universe(which is a very misleading term itself)? Yet, it cannot be proved to exist as it doesn't consist of atoms, but still has mass. Do you understand that traditional geometry fails to explain the time-space curvature? Yet, it *seemingly* solves most of the "Earthly" problems. Do you know that many biologists disagree with the Darwinian logic? And that, we've not yet found the sources of 223 genes in the Human Genome? And that, scientists claim to know all about the elements, atoms, molecules ...but still the very Particle Physics is proved to be wrong by the String or M-theory? That, we may be living in a simulation? Or that, there exist parellel universes with infinite dimensions? Or maybe the "Multiverse" is only a vibration produced by the tubular and plasma-like strings in other dimensions?

These are not my words. You'll immediately recognize at least some of it, if you keep a close watch on the latest scientific news and researches.

Raaabo said:
Bottom line: Science welcomes change, so long as it is backed by concrete evidence; religion discourages it. The only way a person could equate the two is if he treated science like a religion, and just accepted what he was told instead of understanding and questioning. Perhaps it was because of lack of interest, bad teachers, rote learning… whatever…

There is bottom line, no black/white, no Yin/Yang or nothing like so easily defined as Good and Evil in science. There are no concrete evidences in science, much to the same as in case of religions. Why does science come up with as loud a theory as the Big Bang, but fails to explain what existed before it, or what caused it to happen? If it's not some (overdose of) faith or belief in science, how else would you explain it?

Raaabo said:
The easiest thing to do is label yourself an unbeliever, because it exempts you from having to take the trouble to understand. Let’s see if I can get a definition of time, not from “stupid” textbooks, or “religious scientists”, but from my own understanding:

Your "explanation" is more suitable for the title of a "believer".

Raaabo said:
Time: The first dimension for every object that exists as matter in our universe.

What this means is that, even subatomic particles, which are the closest things we know of to “nothingness” experience time, and are thus one dimensional objects.

A point is thus one-dimensional, a line, 2-dimensional, a plane, 3-dimensional, everything else, 4-dimensional — us included.

It's rather interesting to see how my fellow "ametuer" scientists are trying to define "Time", which has been described as "one of the concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition" by Carl Sagan. Similar explanations were given by Kip Thorne and Stephen Hawking.

Raaabo said:
Consider this:
If you and your entire universe that you see, exist on just a plane. You are therefore a point or a line, and your universe is the plane. This is a three-dimensional universe, considering that X, Y (axes) and Time are the measurements of the three dimensions. Now, I am a 4th dimension normal human, who also experiences time, in addition to X, Y, and Z axes as measurements.

What if I were to insert a ruler into your universe (the plane). You would see a line appear, and when I removed the ruler, you would see the line disappear. No motion, no movement, just appearing and disappearing. This would stupefy you! If time did not exist, you would not see the line, you would not notice anything change, ever.

You are bound by limits: the distance you can see on the X axis, the same for the Y axis, and Time. Since these limits do not allow for a Z axis, which it does only for me (in this example), my ruler is nothing short of magic and mystique to 3-dimensional planar beings. Now consider the same trick being played on linear (2-dimensional) beings by planar (3-dimensional) beings, and then again by linear beings on point beings (uni-dimensional), and you will see that this trick of being from a superior-dimension stops at point beings. This means that the first dimension is time, and there’s nothing (currently perceivable, at least) that’s below the dimension of time.

If this is not clear, try and understand what the word “dimension” means. It is nothing but a measurement. This is why a box, 10x10x10 cm is measured 10 cm on the X, Y and Z axes, but can also be measured as “2 years old”. If it can be measured, in a perceivable way, then it must be a dimension. Because humanity has already measured and mapped X, Y and Z axes as three unique dimensions, to avoid confusion, time is called the 4th dimension. In fact, it is the first dimension.

Sorry, I didn't read after the first line of the quoted paragraph. There simply exists nothing as a straight line or a plane in the space-time continuum.

Raaabo said:
An interesting question this raises is that if you travel faster than light, will you actually experience the 5th dimension, or are you actually becoming dimension-less (the Zero-dimension).

Dimension-less, perhaps, “nothingness” is the wrong word to use.

I'm not qualified enough to think about a time-travel.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

whats about the wormhole concept of time travel.it is better than travelling at light speed

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

vimal_mehrotra said:
whats about the wormhole concept of time travel.it is better than travelling at light speed

It's an uttely rubbish concept, much to the fate and likes of dozens of others in theoretical physics. Even the Hindu mythological idea of the whole "reality" being only a dream of Vishnu is better than this!

I've put some effort in studying the wormhole idea. It'd take very large amount of energy, almost equivalent to that of a whole Galaxy to create one through a "hypothetically bent plane of Universe (laughable)", and even then, the hole would only be around a billionth-of-1mm wide for anything to travel through.

Stranger than fiction, indeed!

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

do black holes have to do anything with time travel?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

vimal_mehrotra said:
do black holes have to do anything with time travel?

Not in my opinion. But a more general question would be - does anything have to do with time travel at all? Time travel fans will always come up with ideas to satiate their lust for the same. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them tried getting through a toilet pipe, if they were led to believe it was a way to travel through time.

Most physicists don't agree, or aren't sure, on a common theory as to what happens on the other side of the black hole. But a shared "belief" is the concept of Singularity.

As Prof. Mike Disney says, "Cosmology is close to the religion". My fellow Digit'ers may disagree, but they're simply not qualified enough.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

do you believe in parallel universes?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

vimal_mehrotra said:
do you believe in parallel universes?

Sorry, I'm not qualified enough to comment on the concept of Parallel Universes. But, what surprises me is how good these cosmologists are at fabricating complex ideas only to support their theories. For example, to counter the fine-tuning of the Cosmological constant, they came up with Multiverses comcept, to keep the Big Bang theory viable, they consistently revise and make additions to the "standard model" of Cosmology, and to keep the Strings-theory alive, which was dying a slow and painful death, they didn't hesitate to fabricate Parallel Universes, the 11th dimension, and ultimately the M-theory.

In short, philosophy begins where science ends. But these physicists with their ego problems, are only making things worse. Science has eventually turned itself into the same thing it had vowed to fight against.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

are you trying to say scientists are proposing rubbish to support previously given
theories?why would they do so?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

There may well be a very benevolent idea behind all this - to keep funding for researches alive and well. Otherwise, the Governments would stop funding scientific research, labs and universities would have to be closed down if it was discovered that understanding the Universe isn't possible.

Just think about it - our own galaxy "The Milky Way", which is only of an average size in the "observable Universe", is no less than 100,000 light-years in diameter. The Sun, which is the center of attraction in our solar system, is only one of the 400 billion stars in the Milky Way. And there are more than 100 billion galaxies in the "observable Universe" alone. That put aside, all this mass accounts for only 4% of matter in the Universe. Rest are thought to be "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy"!

Now, we don't have to assume that the Universe expands beyond our capability of observation. It could very well be infinite, because we can't tell for sure. And these bright cosmologists have been talking about the birth and death of the Universe for decades. What chances their worthless theories stand against the sheer infinity of the Universe? Are we really capable of understanding even what the Universe itself is, let alone how it was "born"?

Let me assure you, they (cosmologists) will continue modifying, enhancing and fabricating theories to satiate their ego - that they know and can describe everything. Nobody has an ego as great as does a mathematician or a physicist. They'll never cease to amuse me.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

are you a science student or what?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

vimal_mehrotra said:
are you a science student or what?

What difference would it make to you if I answered in positive, or negative?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

i just want to know how you know so much about these things.the way you are talking seems you are an alien yourself.
just kidding ofcourse thank you for the info.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I'm a post-grad CS student, with more than a passing interest in the Nature, the Cosmos, the reality and self-conciousness. I think, both religion and the present-day science are quite limited in what they can do to make us understand ourselves better. Both have been trying for long, but the efforts fall somewhat short of expectations.

That said, there's a definite place for philosophy in between the two. I also tend to think that future "versions" of Homo Sapiens will be armed with better understanding and knowledge to overleap what we're unable to achieve or grasp today. This is the very evolution that makes us different from the first Homo Sapiens that ever walked the Earth.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

very true indeed.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Yamaraj said:
I think, both religion and the present-day science are quite limited in what they can do to make us understand ourselves better. Both have been trying for long, but the efforts fall somewhat short of expectations.
That said, there's a definite place for philosophy in between the two. I also tend to think that future "versions" of Homo Sapiens will be armed with better understanding and knowledge to overleap what we're unable to achieve or grasp today. This is the very evolution that makes us different from the first Homo Sapiens that ever walked the Earth.

okay... the great debate, and the question itself, flawed...
so my dumb analysis....
religion is basically crap and based on myths... nuthn really happened... the intelligent ppl back in time ddnt really know wht could possibly get the commoners to follow em and become their minions... that marked the birth of religion... as of today, i believe in god as my backup plan, atleast i dun hvta say "sciencedamn you!" or "oh science!" or "science hi sabka maalik hai" for that reason... (yeaaa.. i saw southpark's wii episode)
science on the other hand, is a set of make-believe things, supported by visible effects... science is alright... thanks to science, we earn, learn and have good computers...
it isnt really evolution that marks us apart... its human goddamned nature... its our incessant ability to think and reason thats gotten us here tday... religion just gives us a bunch of rules/superstitions/beliefs...
it is absurd to compare science and religion as such... science is fact and practical... religion is belief, storybook-ish or some fairytale we all like to believe in...
evolution just put us here... its our twisted brains that gave birth to the bombs and the medicines...
and the future of us, is really a machine or sumthn... not like "them-robots-gonna-take-over-mankind"... more like a system where every1's gonna be spending a good part of his/her life workin...
or maybe not?
i curse my cynical view... but then, it makes sense to me....
look at us grow...
_________________________
ps: anybody seen this movie called "alien autopsy" ? if ure readin this thread, u really shld...

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

i dont think religion is totally crap.i am not a religious person but i mean man they should have seen something to write, they did not just made it up.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

vimal_mehrotra said:
i dont think religion is totally crap.i am not a religious person but i mean man they should have seen something to write, they did not just made it up.

they did see something... they saw themselves ruling the naive fools back then... i mean science wuznt really widespread back then, so anythn the people 'saw' meant to be religious or miraculous, wuz plain visual fx... illusions if u may... but then, religion is cool cuz it led to real cool literature and art... and it is bad cuz it led to holy wars and senseless violence...

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

While religion is for the heart's satisfaction similarly science is for the brain's satisfaction.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

@yamraj: You're obviously only here to argue, without basis. Please either take the trouble to read a person's post before commenting, or just don't comment at all...

yamraj said:
Sorry, I didn't read after the first line of the quoted paragraph. There simply exists nothing as a straight line or a plane in the space-time continuum.

If you had bothered to read that paragraph, you'd realise that it was a way of simplifying the understanding of higher dimensions. Since no human can imagine a higher dimension, it's a very common practise, used by many scientists to explain to us lay people, to try and get us to imagine ourselves living in a dimension lower that what we actually are... even two dimensions lower... this makes it easier to understand what a higher dimension person could do to wreak havoc in our world, and stupify us...

You've made it very clear that you just don't like to read anything that goes against your pre-conceived notions of what you "think" is the right explanation for the universe around you... why do you even bother trying to come here and post?

yamraj said:
It's rather interesting to see how my fellow "ametuer" scientists are trying to define "Time", which has been described as "one of the concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition" by Carl Sagan. Similar explanations were given by Kip Thorne and Stephen Hawking.

And this just stops you from trying to understand it yourself?

yamraj said:
Your "explanation" is more suitable for the title of a "believer".

So then you're a believer?

yamraj said:
First of all - why prefer Christianity/Bible/Church to seemingly more tolerant religions that embrace scientific discoveries quite well and often end up having different branches and spin-offs dealing with these issues? Semitic "religions" are only cults with huge follower-base. You seem to ignore the fact that Hinduism was/is quite open to scientific ideas.

No, I didn't get the drift, for it presented a very biased view to me.

I used the example of the "Bible" and "Christianity" because I happen to belong to that community. You can substitute whatever religion you like here... Before you start a "X religion is better than Y religion" war here, you should go read the newspapers a little more often... look at all the bloodshed happening over a few stupid brick and stone buildings... preachers getting slaughtered for conversions, sects within the same religion killing each other over stupid differences in the middle east, people still being treated as lower castes in the 21st century...

Now to address the part of your quote marked bold by me... remember when all of a sudden statues across India seemingly started to drink milk? Scientists were quick to disregard it as porus materials used to create the statues... even showed it being done with a brick... but did the religious leaders accept it? Did the majority of the public accept it? Let's not fool ourselves into believing that ANY religion is open to scientific explanations... the most obvious ones that are taught to every 5th grader sure, but anything that the common man "might" be unsure about, hell no!

yamraj said:
Not quite! If you were familiar with the inherent politics of scientific community, you wouldn't have said that. Your "proof" could outright be ignored and laughed at, depending on the mood and affliation of the scientific community members. History is full of such examples.

Besides, you couldn't prove/reproduce the same miracles with the help of science when these religions flourished some 2000 years ago, could you?

History? Did my example assume that I was from a time 2000 years ago? There is always resistence to change, there is always dissent; that's the very nature of science. The little word "proof" that you scorn is the very basis of science. No I'm not talking about theoretical physics, I'm talking hardcore, down and dirty science. From "history" we learn that science and its beliefs have changed a lot more drastically than religion has. The world was flat once, and isn't now. The final "proof" of it was delivered by the first pictures of our planet shot from space... Science has always had to accept the truth.

Even in grey areas such as when dealing with space-time, there is no belief. They're called theories in science, and every such theory has a basis. There are complex formulae, that neither you nor I can fully comprehend, but a scientists peers can. There's a reason for a theory being more popular than a contradicting one; it's called logic and understanding, and if 90% of the greatest minds in the world agree that one theory makes more sense than another, that's the one that's accepted... still as a theory, or a possibility, but accepted, until another comes along and dethrones it by making more sense...

yamraj said:
And, science is based on observations, which are in turn dependent on our senses and limitations of human understanding. Just like we don't expect rats to build rockets and fly great distances, we also cannot claim to have enough brainpower to know-it-all.

Who says we know it all? I certainly do not. No body on the face of this Earth, past or present does. I dare say that perhaps even in the future, no one will ever know it all. However, I will try and figure it out. I will accept the explanations given by intelligent individuals, consider them, apply logic to them and gain an understanding... as any thinking human would... or should... I will not just discount something because i'm an "unbeliever", or even a "believer". If everyone were like that, we'd be wiped out by disease, still thinking the earth was flat and perhaps the rats really would be building the spaceships of today!

yamraj said:
While it may not be as apparant to the "common man", there is a lot of faith and belief going on within the scientific community. There are theories without any proof, and even many theoretical physicists disagree with them. Yet, most of the populations takes theories like Big Bang and String theory for granted. In fact, theoretical physics is closer to fiction/religion than it is to the "traditional" scientific ways. Do you know that the Dark Matter accounts for more than 96% of the whole Universe(which is a very misleading term itself)? Yet, it cannot be proved to exist as it doesn't consist of atoms, but still has mass. Do you understand that traditional geometry fails to explain the time-space curvature? Yet, it *seemingly* solves most of the "Earthly" problems. Do you know that many biologists disagree with the Darwinian logic? And that, we've not yet found the sources of 223 genes in the Human Genome? And that, scientists claim to know all about the elements, atoms, molecules ...but still the very Particle Physics is proved to be wrong by the String or M-theory? That, we may be living in a simulation? Or that, there exist parellel universes with infinite dimensions? Or maybe the "Multiverse" is only a vibration produced by the tubular and plasma-like strings in other dimensions?

These are not my words. You'll immediately recognize at least some of it, if you keep a close watch on the latest scientific news and researches.

The theories you describe as "faith and belief" are actually based on something... people don;t just pull "string theory" and "big bang" from thin air. They may not be correct, and only some time in the future will they either be proven or disproven with concrete evidence, but they are put together by using cold hard facts, such as knowing that even something as miniscule as an electron has mass, and thus should not be treated as a zero dimensional object, or that all the galaxies appear to be moving away from one central point in the universe... these are measured facts, and are what are used to base these theories (right or wrong) on. I disagree that there is fiction/religious behaviour here in science, because any theory that's based on facts cannot be called fiction... it can be proved wrong, sure, but calling it religious belief or science fiction... that's stepping over a very large and obvious line...

yamraj said:
Why does science come up with as loud a theory as the Big Bang, but fails to explain what existed before it, or what caused it to happen? If it's not some (overdose of) faith or belief in science, how else would you explain it?

This is the one area of theoretical physics that is always going to be grey. Why? Simply because just as with religion, this deals with the past. The question of how the universe began is something that no one, except the proverbial time traveler, of course, can prove/disprove. As I said earlier, not knowing, and theorizing something is very different from being an overdose of faith or belief in science. Besides, it's not like the entire scientific community is out trying to prove or disprove the big bang theory, simply because they cannot. Instead, more people seem to be considering the multi-verse, dark matter, anti matter, and other things that can be proved/disproved, given enough time. Time travel, again, is one of those things that scientists/physicists are interested in. The speed of light, and whether it's attainable, problems that have a light at the end of the tunnel are a lot more important than us worrying about where we came from.

If anything, the big bang is the biggest religion vs science fight of all time, and a pointless one. Thankfully the majority seem more interested in where we're going rather than where we've been.

yamraj said:
I'm not qualified enough to think about a time-travel.

Wrong again. Thanks to the sharing of information, we're all qualified to read, understand and then think about things such as time travel. We may get a lot of things wrong, but not having a PHD in Physics is no reason to stop thinking or trying to understand such things. The very nature of science is to question, if you lose that most basic trait, what else is there to live for?

yamraj said:
It's an uttely rubbish concept, much to the fate and likes of dozens of others in theoretical physics. Even the Hindu mythological idea of the whole "reality" being only a dream of Vishnu is better than this!

I've put some effort in studying the wormhole idea. It'd take very large amount of energy, almost equivalent to that of a whole Galaxy to create one through a "hypothetically bent plane of Universe (laughable)", and even then, the hole would only be around a billionth-of-1mm wide for anything to travel through.

Stranger than fiction, indeed!

Whoa! You're suddenly qualified again? You rubbish a concept that has been spoken about by great names in physics? Wait, let me scroll up....

yamraj said:
It's rather interesting to see how my fellow "ametuer" scientists are trying to define "Time", which has been described as "one of the concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition" by Carl Sagan. Similar explanations were given by Kip Thorne and Stephen Hawking.

So do you just quote what suits you? Accepting what they say when it supports your arguements and rubbishing their own thoughts about something like wormholes? Incidentally, Sagan theorized that time travel through a wormhole was possible, which is what he uses in his novel Contact, as does Kip Thorne. However, Hawking says it's impossible. Since you quoted all three, about the definition of time bein impossible to explain, which one do you actually believe?

Here's some interesting reading for the ones following this thread:

Carl Sagan said:
Such questions (time travel) are purely a matter of evidence, and if the evidence is inconsistent or insufficient, then we withhold judgment until there is better evidence. Right now we're in one of those classic, wonderfully evocative moments in science when we don't know, when there are those on both sides of the debate, and when what is at stake is very mystifying and very profound.

If we could travel into the past, it's mind-boggling what would be possible. For one thing, history would become an experimental science, which it certainly isn't today. The possible insights into our own past and nature and origins would be dazzling. For another, we would be facing the deep paradoxes of interfering with the scheme of causality that has led to our own time and ourselves. I have no idea whether it's possible, but it's certainly worth exploring.

There have been some toy experiments in which, at just the moment that the time machine is actuated, the universe conspires to blow it up, which has led Hawking and others to conclude that nature will contrive it so that time travel never in fact occurs. But no one actually knows that this is the case, and it cannot be known until we have a full theory of quantum gravity, which we do not seem to be on the verge of yet.

One of Hawking's arguments in the conjecture is that we are not awash in thousands of time travelers from the future, and therefore time travel is impossible. This argument I find very dubious, and it reminds me very much of the argument that there cannot be intelligences elsewhere in space, because otherwise the Earth would be awash in aliens. I can think half a dozen ways in which we could not be awash in time travelers, and still time travel is possible.

First of all, it might be that you can build a time machine to go into the future, but not into the past, and we don't know about it because we haven't yet invented that time machine. Secondly, it might be that time travel into the past is possible, but they haven't gotten to our time yet, they're very far in the future and the further back in time you go, the more expensive it is. Thirdly, maybe backward time travel is possible, but only up to the moment that time travel is invented. We haven't invented it yet, so they can't come to us. They can come to as far back as whatever it would be, say A.D. 2300, but not further back in time.

Then there's the possibility that they're here alright, but we don't see them. They have perfect invisibility cloaks or something. If they have such highly developed technology, then why not? Then there's the possibility that they're here and we do see them, but we call them something else—UFOs or ghosts or hobgoblins or fairies or something like that. Finally, there's the possibility that time travel is perfectly possible, but it requires a great advance in our technology, and human civilization will destroy itself before time travelers invent it.

I'm sure there are other possibilities as well, but if you just think of that range of possibilities, I don't think the fact that we're not obviously being visited by time travelers shows that time travel is impossible.

Full interview at: *www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/sagan.html

yamraj said:
Not in my opinion. But a more general question would be - does anything have to do with time travel at all? Time travel fans will always come up with ideas to satiate their lust for the same. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them tried getting through a toilet pipe, if they were led to believe it was a way to travel through time.

Most physicists don't agree, or aren't sure, on a common theory as to what happens on the other side of the black hole. But a shared "belief" is the concept of Singularity.

As Prof. Mike Disney says, "Cosmology is close to the religion". My fellow Digit'ers may disagree, but they're simply not qualified enough.

You astound us all with the way you trivialize everything. If you cannot answer a question directly, perhaps you shouldn't try!

yamraj said:
I think, both religion and the present-day science are quite limited in what they can do to make us understand ourselves better. Both have been trying for long, but the efforts fall somewhat short of expectations.

That said, there's a definite place for philosophy in between the two. I also tend to think that future "versions" of Homo Sapiens will be armed with better understanding and knowledge to overleap what we're unable to achieve or grasp today. This is the very evolution that makes us different from the first Homo Sapiens that ever walked the Earth.

I disagree about science not being able to make us understand ourselves better. If that were true, we'd all be dead from the common cold or influenza. We would never have reached the stage of fearing AIDS, and we'd be killing the first person around us who sneezed or had a fever, just to "survive". If anything, it's science that has made us understand ourselves, and made us realize how miniscule we are in the context of the "universe", yet helped us enjoy our short little lives here, by helping us think, argue, understand, and continue to exist.

The second paragraph I've quoted, well is obviously something we all have to agree with. Of course, it's a pretty obvious statement isn't it?

Lastly, I appeal to everyone to cease the whole "religion" or "science vs religion" theme that this thread is taking on. We were talking about time travel, UFOs, Aliens, etc. Let's leave religion out of this shall we?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

yeaaaaaa... lolz... i kinda realized that this religion rant wuz goin on in a thread about ufo's and space travel... wow...
but yea... someone started a thread on religion vs god...

wudnt bother newayz... it'd go on n on n on n on.......

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Rabo said:
@yamraj: You're obviously only here to argue, without basis. Please either take the trouble to read a person's post before commenting, or just don't comment at all...

Thanks for your suggestion. I really didn't realize this was a CalTech forum where my fellow members usually post scientific discoveries, and not their opinions.

Rabo said:
If you had bothered to read that paragraph, you'd realise that it was a way of simplifying the understanding of higher dimensions. Since no human can imagine a higher dimension, it's a very common practise, used by many scientists to explain to us lay people, to try and get us to imagine ourselves living in a dimension lower that what we actually are... even two dimensions lower... this makes it easier to understand what a higher dimension person could do to wreak havoc in our world, and stupify us...

If we can't perceive with our senses, there exist no higher dimensions. Scientists, using mathematics, will achieve and prove whatever they want to - even an infinite number of Universes. But their equations don't govern the laws of the Cosmos. No matter how many dimensions they come up with - and we have 26 already, their 'fiction' will always be light-years away from the true understanding of the Universe.

Rabo said:
You've made it very clear that you just don't like to read anything that goes against your pre-conceived notions of what you "think" is the right explanation for the universe around you... why do you even bother trying to come here and post?

Same goes for you and everyone else. Are you suggesting that I should have my forum-membership revoked?

Rabo said:
And this just stops you from trying to understand it yourself?

No, it makes me laugh at those wannabe time-travellers.

Rabo said:
So then you're a believer?

Far from it! I can't be defined or explained in a few words.

Rabo said:
I used the example of the "Bible" and "Christianity" because I happen to belong to that community. You can substitute whatever religion you like here... Before you start a "X religion is better than Y religion" war here, you should go read the newspapers a little more often... look at all the bloodshed happening over a few stupid brick and stone buildings... preachers getting slaughtered for conversions, sects within the same religion killing each other over stupid differences in the middle east, people still being treated as lower castes in the 21st century...

Now to address the part of your quote marked bold by me... remember when all of a sudden statues across India seemingly started to drink milk? Scientists were quick to disregard it as porus materials used to create the statues... even showed it being done with a brick... but did the religious leaders accept it? Did the majority of the public accept it? Let's not fool ourselves into believing that ANY religion is open to scientific explanations... the most obvious ones that are taught to every 5th grader sure, but anything that the common man "might" be unsure about, hell no!

Since I'm fundamentally against the anamolies and degraded religions, I'm not supposed to bring up a new crusade. I'm not religious at all. You wouldn't like me commenting on "Virgin Mary" weeping tears of blood, or the "miracles" of saints, would you?

You seem to have entirely ignored my point. And that was about different religions embracing science differently. Religion was the science of ancient ages.

Rabo said:
History? Did my example assume that I was from a time 2000 years ago? There is always resistence to change, there is always dissent; that's the very nature of science. The little word "proof" that you scorn is the very basis of science. No I'm not talking about theoretical physics, I'm talking hardcore, down and dirty science. From "history" we learn that science and its beliefs have changed a lot more drastically than religion has. The world was flat once, and isn't now. The final "proof" of it was delivered by the first pictures of our planet shot from space... Science has always had to accept the truth.

What "hardcore" science? That, 2 plus 2 equals 4? You still don't understand what I think of religion and science. 4000-2000 years ago, religion was the only science available to the people. It explained how and why they existed. If you consider the Darwinian theory of Evolution, it was quite some feat. A few apes who fell prey to his theory and went on to become somewhat more intelligent, had discovered self-conciousness and God! Mind you, just as you laugh at their ignorance and stupidity now, you'll be laughed at later for the same reasons. As I've said before, there's nothing 'absolute' in science. Not even Newton's laws of gravity, or Einsteins relativity, or quantum mechanics or "concepts" like the Big bang and Strings theory.

No offense, but this very 'belief' in science makes it the modern religion. Belief that every hypothesis is a definitive theory. Belief that science can, and will eventually explain everything. Belief that humans will ultimately become Godlike. The moment you start having faith in these postulates, you start believing, and become religious.

Rabo said:
Even in grey areas such as when dealing with space-time, there is no belief. They're called theories in science, and every such theory has a basis. There are complex formulae, that neither you nor I can fully comprehend, but a scientists peers can. There's a reason for a theory being more popular than a contradicting one; it's called logic and understanding, and if 90% of the greatest minds in the world agree that one theory makes more sense than another, that's the one that's accepted... still as a theory, or a possibility, but accepted, until another comes along and dethrones it by making more sense...

There is no belief? This very statement of your's is full of belief, since we've yet to encounter an experimental evidence proving the existance of extra spatial dimensions. Care to present one before us, only to support your faith in the "theories", that are merely concepts in truth?

Majority elected Dubya twice to the White House. I don't care what 90% of all monkeys agree on. They all discarded M-theory once for being too 'crazy and unacceptable'.

Your arguments are weak, and depend on the very political scientific community. Read some on Hendrik Schon, and you'll realize what these 'greatest minds' are up to.

Rabo said:
Who says we know it all? I certainly do not. No body on the face of this Earth, past or present does. I dare say that perhaps even in the future, no one will ever know it all. However, I will try and figure it out. I will accept the explanations given by intelligent individuals, consider them, apply logic to them and gain an understanding... as any thinking human would... or should... I will not just discount something because i'm an "unbeliever", or even a "believer". If everyone were like that, we'd be wiped out by disease, still thinking the earth was flat and perhaps the rats really would be building the spaceships of today!

I don't accept these academic 'theories' only for their sake. Go on to believing in Dark Matter if that's all you want, but you wouldn't fare any better than a "dumb" religous person who believes in a creator. If the scientists feel compelled to fabricate multiple/infinite/parallel universes to explain gravity and mass, they've only complicated the matters.

Rabo said:
The theories you describe as "faith and belief" are actually based on something... people don;t just pull "string theory" and "big bang" from thin air. They may not be correct, and only some time in the future will they either be proven or disproven with concrete evidence, but they are put together by using cold hard facts, such as knowing that even something as miniscule as an electron has mass, and thus should not be treated as a zero dimensional object, or that all the galaxies appear to be moving away from one central point in the universe... these are measured facts, and are what are used to base these theories (right or wrong) on. I disagree that there is fiction/religious behaviour here in science, because any theory that's based on facts cannot be called fiction... it can be proved wrong, sure, but calling it religious belief or science fiction... that's stepping over a very large and obvious line...

Yes, they did pull it all out of thin air. You definitely haven't studied all the crap they've been shooting for a few years. Forget electrons, they even have fabricated a few particles that don't have any mass and travel at speeds higher than light. Then there are some who 'believe' particles are a thing of past, and particle physics students are, in fact, learning about something that doesn't exist at all!

You have no idea how complex and self-contradictory the science has become.

Rabo said:
This is the one area of theoretical physics that is always going to be grey. Why? Simply because just as with religion, this deals with the past. The question of how the universe began is something that no one, except the proverbial time traveler, of course, can prove/disprove. As I said earlier, not knowing, and theorizing something is very different from being an overdose of faith or belief in science. Besides, it's not like the entire scientific community is out trying to prove or disprove the big bang theory, simply because they cannot. Instead, more people seem to be considering the multi-verse, dark matter, anti matter, and other things that can be proved/disproved, given enough time. Time travel, again, is one of those things that scientists/physicists are interested in. The speed of light, and whether it's attainable, problems that have a light at the end of the tunnel are a lot more important than us worrying about where we came from.

If anything, the big bang is the biggest religion vs science fight of all time, and a pointless one. Thankfully the majority seem more interested in where we're going rather than where we've been.

Dark matter doesn't have mass, charge or any of the required particle characteristics. It can't be detected at all. But that's one reason why they came up with such an idea. So it couldn't be proved/disproved easily. None of the present day theories can explain the gravitational stretch in Cosmos - hence the Dark matter and dark energy. Bah!

Time travel is not possible. Is it so hard to understand that? Time isn't one of the spatial dimensions, hence you can't travel back-n-forth in time.

Rabo said:
Wrong again. Thanks to the sharing of information, we're all qualified to read, understand and then think about things such as time travel. We may get a lot of things wrong, but not having a PHD in Physics is no reason to stop thinking or trying to understand such things. The very nature of science is to question, if you lose that most basic trait, what else is there to live for?

See if you can manage to say the same words before one of those arrogant scientists, without being thrown out of his sight. Their ego is bigger than the whole Universe.

Rabo said:
Whoa! You're suddenly qualified again? You rubbish a concept that has been spoken about by great names in physics? Wait, let me scroll up....

Mind-bending a spoon isn't the same as the wormhole. Have a talk with those 'theoretical physicists' and try to convince them if they can demonstrate one for the rest of us. A novel idea, isn't it?

Wait, I have a better idea - a shitehole. It works better than their wormhole. I only have to formulate it, but they haven't done the same yet, either.

Rabo said:
So do you just quote what suits you? Accepting what they say when it supports your arguements and rubbishing their own thoughts about something like wormholes? Incidentally, Sagan theorized that time travel through a wormhole was possible, which is what he uses in his novel Contact, as does Kip Thorne. However, Hawking says it's impossible. Since you quoted all three, about the definition of time bein impossible to explain, which one do you actually believe?

Where exactly did I mention CS/KT/SH in the context of time-travel? When I quoted Carl Sagan and others, it was about the "definition of Time". My English isn't that bad, is it?

Rabo said:
You astound us all with the way you trivialize everything. If you cannot answer a question directly, perhaps you shouldn't try!

Perhaps you shouldn't try the same. Next time you bring up the issue of "theories" and "greatest minds", at least try reading more and form your own views.

Rabo said:
I disagree about science not being able to make us understand ourselves better. If that were true, we'd all be dead from the common cold or influenza. We would never have reached the stage of fearing AIDS, and we'd be killing the first person around us who sneezed or had a fever, just to "survive". If anything, it's science that has made us understand ourselves, and made us realize how miniscule we are in the context of the "universe", yet helped us enjoy our short little lives here, by helping us think, argue, understand, and continue to exist.

Rabo said:
Lastly, I appeal to everyone to cease the whole "religion" or "science vs religion" theme that this thread is taking on. We were talking about time travel, UFOs, Aliens, etc. Let's leave religion out of this shall we?

It was never a "Science Vs. Religion" from my point of view. I've always thought of science as a "modern religion", given how many of the general population have faith in science, but without any knowledge.

IMHO, science is beginning to hurt us and our planet more than any religion ever did. With this rate, we'll have self-destructed ourselves way before our saviors find a solution to transmigrate to other Worlds.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Yamaraj said:
IMHO, science is beginning to hurt us and our planet more than any religion ever did. With this rate, we'll have self-destructed ourselves way before our saviors find a solution to transmigrate to other Worlds.

now thats weird.... u seem intelligent enough, but u probably forgot the crusades, forgot the poor jews, the hindus, the muslims... for starters, ie.... lolz... its obvious ure not talkin about global warming when u say that science is beginning to hurt our planet...
science 'casualties' as u say, have caused a dent in the population in the latter half of the past century, and of course, in our current times...
religion, on the other hand, has been the cause of wars and massive death tolls since the dawn on time.... i dunno about the figures, but i'l bet on it that religion is a bigger badder force in terms of destruction....
true science will get us to self destruct someday, but i prefer to remain optimistic...
again, i'd say that religion isnt sumthn to be compared wid science or vice versa.... they shldnt be compared...
well, science is to be reckoned as a weapon of mass destruction, but they fight in the name of religion... its not really religion or science... its human nature...

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Yamaraj said:
If we can't perceive with our senses, there exist no higher dimensions. Scientists, using mathematics, will achieve and prove whatever they want to - even an infinite number of Universes. But their equations don't govern the laws of the Cosmos. No matter how many dimensions they come up with - and we have 26 already, their 'fiction' will always be light-years away from the true understanding of the Universe.

And exactly how do you perceive with your senses? What type of senses are you talking about? Do we have enough senses?

The reason most people cannot digest the idea of higher dimensions because they can't see it, they can't feel it. But can you really trust your senses? Let me give you a simple example- the same flat-earth example but from the viewpoint of dimensions. Earlier the earth was believed to be flat because we small creatures could only see a small portion of the earth which looked flat. So in essence the earth was believed to be 2 dimensional. But when we were able to see the whole earth or atleast perceive its largeness, we came to realise that the earth is indeed round or 3 dimensional. See how a 2 dimensional object is suddenly transformed into a 3 D object. The third dimension was always there but we were not able to "see" it. The same thing applies to space. How much of the space we have actually seen? Less than 0.000001%. Its possible that there is some dimension hidden that we are simply not able to comprehend.

You find these stuff ficticious because they defy common sense, isn't it? But can you define "common sense"? Common sense is based on beliefs, about stuff that happen in our day to day life. Stuff that follow simple laws of physics. But do we know all laws of physics?? Phenomenons that occur on earth and the nearby space, maybe even thousnads of light years away, properties that follow certain laws might not be the same all over the universe. How can we be so sure that certain things will not happen just because it doesn't occur on earth?? How can you know what phenomenons are happeneing in the universe when we have seen less than 0.0001% of it?? You don't believe in dark matter because you have studied about conventional matter since class 2. Suppose you had studied about dark matter from class 2 and suddenly scientists discovered "normal" matter, would you still say matter is fictitious just because it conflicts with what you were taught from school? Can you be sure that matter is the only form of substance available in this universe? What proof do you have? What proof is there that anything other than conventional matter can't exist?

The same can be said about time. What is time? Is it what you look at your watch? Is it so simple? What about atomic clocks on aboard satellites that record time slower than that on earth (yes, thats a fact)? What about it? How can you explain it?

Are you living in a shell? Its better to live in 3000BC.

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

What I've understood from above posts.

I suppose this is what Yamaraj thinks: The scientific laws were simple and understandable earlier. But as we move towards more complex matters, the 'simple' laws fail and hence new laws are developed which may be applicable only on specific situations. Yamaraj thinks of these as 'patch ups', just like well... it happened in ancient times( you believed in preachers, come with something which goes againsta the beliefs and things would be patched up)
The same is happenening with science and hence he has problem gulping the concept.

Well, yeah, Kinda agree with that. But then it looks like you're going too far down the lane. Saying science is useless now, time travel is just a fantasy etc. (I know you never said "useless" but the posts look like this to me)

Raabo's view: We can't understand everything and anything, hence the cosmos is described just like rough pencil sketches of a criminal. The sketches aren't perfect but they are based on our knowledge (knowing hair-style, shape of face etc)

I seem to agree with the patch-up part but then, we apply our current knowledge to try defining new concepts.

*Note to self: Edit the post when you remmeber what you were thinking but lost due to GTA*

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

blackpearl said:
The reason most people cannot digest the idea of higher dimensions because they can't see it, they can't feel it. But can you really trust your senses? Let me give you a simple example- the same flat-earth example but from the viewpoint of dimensions. Earlier the earth was believed to be flat because we small creatures could only see a small portion of the earth which looked flat. So in essence the earth was believed to be 2 dimensional. But when we were able to see the whole earth or atleast perceive its largeness, we came to realise that the earth is indeed round or 3 dimensional. See how a 2 dimensional object is suddenly transformed into a 3 D object. The third dimension was always there but we were not able to "see" it. The same thing applies to space. How much of the space we have actually seen? Less than 0.000001%. Its possible that there is some dimension hidden that we are simply not able to comprehend.

Wow! You really could do without this stupid example. 3rd dimension has nothing to do with the Earth being flat or round. When you move forward or backward, to the right or left, and jump above the ground even for small distances - you're experiencing all three 'spatial' dimensions. I'm sure you don't know enough as is required to take part in such a discussion. And, I'm not being offensive. The only advice I have for you is to read some on topic documents and papers. The 'extra' dimensions exist only in the minds of theoretical physicists and they fabricate them as deemed necessary in solving a mathematical problem. For example, to describe dark matter and the weak force of gravity (which doesn't really exist as you've read in your textbooks), without having to break the laws of relativity, they had to add these artificial dimensions in the equations to solve them mathematically.

Now, here's something for you:-
"The reason most people cannot digest the idea of a God because they can't see it, they can't feel it. But can you really trust your senses? <blah-blah>"

blackpearl said:
You find these stuff ficticious because they defy common sense, isn't it? But can you define "common sense"? Common sense is based on beliefs, about stuff that happen in our day to day life. Stuff that follow simple laws of physics. But do we know all laws of physics?? Phenomenons that occur on earth and the nearby space, maybe even thousnads of light years away, properties that follow certain laws might not be the same all over the universe. How can we be so sure that certain things will not happen just because it doesn't occur on earth?? How can you know what phenomenons are happeneing in the universe when we have seen less than 0.0001% of it?? You don't believe in dark matter because you have studied about conventional matter since class 2. Suppose you had studied about dark matter from class 2 and suddenly scientists discovered "normal" matter, would you still say matter is fictitious just because it conflicts with what you were taught from school? Can you be sure that matter is the only form of substance available in this universe? What proof do you have? What proof is there that anything other than conventional matter can't exist?

I was talking about the ability to perceive - the human sense and the percption, not "common sense". As for the physics and its laws, you have to learn a LOT before you'll be able to talk about them. There is nothing that "follows" the laws of physics. In fact, the laws are merely based on the observation and perception of how things seem to work. It's like learning fluid mechanics and claiming that running water "follows your laws". And this is precisely the attitude of even the best of the scientists. Some are so arrogant, they even talk about the Universe following their laws and models. Clearly, they aim to reach the Godlike status.

That, what we know as the "Dark matter", is only a hypothetical matter required to satiate a few equations without breaking the existing ones. Physicists have done this for long. They're usually afraid of breaking old and trustworthy laws, as it may make them lose their job/funding and reputation. Instead, they come up with intended and fabricated complexities to overcome their shortcomings. Dark matter, extra dimensions, many new particles, String/M-theory etc are only a few of such useless and fabricated elements of an endless science fiction.

Search the web, and you shall find many scientists who "believe" in these theories, and many more who don't.

blackpearl said:
The same can be said about time. What is time? Is it what you look at your watch? Is it so simple? What about atomic clocks on aboard satellites that record time slower than that on earth (yes, thats a fact)? What about it? How can you explain it?

Time cannot be explained. Einstein considered it the 4th dimension only because it helped formulate his theories. It's definitely not a spatial dimension and isn't even considered a dimension according to some.

blackpearl said:
Are you living in a shell? Its better to live in 3000BC.

Happy journey! Event horizon is your limit.
__________

SE><IE said:
What I've understood from above posts.

I suppose this is what Yamaraj thinks: The scientific laws were simple and understandable earlier. But as we move towards more complex matters, the 'simple' laws fail and hence new laws are developed which may be applicable only on specific situations. Yamaraj thinks of these as 'patch ups', just like well... it happened in ancient times( you believed in preachers, come with something which goes againsta the beliefs and things would be patched up)
The same is happenening with science and hence he has problem gulping the concept.

Well, yeah, Kinda agree with that. But then it looks like you're going too far down the lane. Saying science is useless now, time travel is just a fantasy etc. (I know you never said "useless" but the posts look like this to me)

You got it right - well, almost! Regardless of what I think, the patch-up is happening just about everyday in the World of physics. Even the scientific top-brass is having a hard time coping with all the complex theories, let alone a layman. I attend a few highly technical forums, of which many brilliant people are members. And most of them seem to agree that modern physics is in desperate need of an overhaul.

Science is not useless. In fact, it has made our lives easier, happier(?) and more luxurious than ever. The "science of the middle-Earth" is almost perfect for the most. But, it's the "science of the very large and the very small" that is taking us to a rollercoster ride. And with nanotechnology, science has just become a greater danger than ever.

To the person who talked about crusades and other religous massacres - I loathe religions for this very inherent property of theirs, but do keep in mind that an average 10MT thermonuclear bomb emits more megatons of destruction than the entire WW2 bombings combined. Yes, it's the good-old human psyche at play, but science adds its own flair to the game.

Ever wonder why most of the science fiction deals with pessimism and destruction?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Yamaraj said:
Wow! You really could do without this stupid example. 3rd dimension has nothing to do with the Earth being flat or round. When you move forward or backward, to the right or left, and jump above the ground even for small distances - you're experiencing all three 'spatial' dimensions. I'm sure you don't know enough as is required to take part in such a discussion. And, I'm not being offensive. The only advice I have for you is to read some on topic documents and papers. The 'extra' dimensions exist only in the minds of theoretical physicists and they fabricate them as deemed necessary in solving a mathematical problem. For example, to describe dark matter and the weak force of gravity (which doesn't really exist as you've read in your textbooks), without having to break the laws of relativity, they had to add these artificial dimensions in the equations to solve them mathematically.

Right, but thats how new laws are discovered. They observe certain phenomenon and try explain them. They devise some mathematical equations. As long as these equations are able to explain and predict these phenomenon without breaking other laws they are deemed as true. The mathematical equations or theories that explain the most of the phenomenon or properties is taken as the better theory. Overtime with more experimentation and observations some of these theories get promoted to the status of "Laws". Its just a matter of time, some might take a few years while other hundreds of years. People of Galileo's time never lived to the time when the assumption "The earth is round" became a Fact. We might be like those people who would never come to know which of them are hardcore facts.

yamaraj said:
There is nothing that "follows" the laws of physics. In fact, the laws are merely based on the observation and perception of how things seem to work. It's like learning fluid mechanics and claiming that running water "follows your laws". And this is precisely the attitude of even the best of the scientists. Some are so arrogant, they even talk about the Universe following their laws and models. Clearly, they aim to reach the Godlike status.

You are a nut, and I'm not being offensive.

Yamaraj said:
They're usually afraid of breaking old and trustworthy laws, as it may make them lose their job/funding and reputation. Instead, they come up with intended and fabricated complexities to overcome their shortcomings. Dark matter, extra dimensions, many new particles, String/M-theory etc are only a few of such useless and fabricated elements of an endless science fiction.

if everybody thought of reputation, there would have been no Newton' laws, no Galieo, no Bohr's model. By making such absurd statements you have shown your intellectual level very clearly. But I'm not being offensive

Its useless to argue with you. This thread was supposed to discuss hardcore physics not to convert religious people to science. So if you don't accept it, just stay out of it. No need to disturb the peace of this place.

P.S: One last advice: stop reading Carl Segan, instead read Stephen Hawking.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

blackpearl said:
Right, but thats how new laws are discovered. They observe certain phenomenon and try explain them. They devise some mathematical equations. As long as these equations are able to explain and predict these phenomenon without breaking other laws they are deemed as true. The mathematical equations or theories that explain the most of the phenomenon or properties is taken as the better theory. Overtime with more experimentation and observations some of these theories get promoted to the status of "Laws". Its just a matter of time, some might take a few years while other hundreds of years. People of Galileo's time never lived to the time when the assumption "The earth is round" became a Fact. We might be like those people who would never come to know which of them are hardcore facts.

Religious christians believed the Earth was round. You won't believe, but theoretical physicists think our Universe is flat. And, don't preach science to me. I've had enough of these already. Hypothesis, theories and laws of science are valid only in certain conditions and levels. Newtonion physics failed to described a LOT of things, and it was scrapped. Even Einstein's GR doesn't take into account the QFT, hence the need for a GUT. But, from what I understand, we'll never ever have a GUT - because of the complexity of the Universe and new theories.

Big Bang concept is now being discarded, slowly. Same goes for the String and M-theory. And they even got a Nobel for the BB "theory". What I'm suggesting is that all those different scientists are behaving like the seven blinds in the elephant story.

blackpearl said:
You are a nut, and I'm not being offensive.

You're an idiot, and I am being offensive.

blackpearl said:
if everybody thought of reputation, there would have been no Newton' laws, no Galieo, no Bohr's model. By making such absurd statements you have shown your intellectual level very clearly. But I'm not being offensive

Then, you don't even have the very slightest of idea about the scientific communities. You're not qualified to have a say in this case. I would rather suggest you keep your mouth shut, as it only helps making you look like an idiot apologist.

blackpearl said:
Its useless to argue with you. This thread was supposed to discuss hardcore physics not to convert religious people to science. So if you don't accept it, just stay out of it. No need to disturb the peace of this place.

Hardcore physics? ROFL! Do you even f***ing know what the hardcore physics is like? I just finished reading the entire thread again, only in hope of finding some "real hardcore physics", and all I could find were some personal opinions, "beliefs" that UFOs exist, and worse-than-idiotic posts, yours included. And, despite having me stated several times that I'm not religious, you're beginning to look like an idiot by assuming so. You should check out my posts in those religious threads, if you're so geniunly interested.

blackpearl said:
I don't know about UFOs but crop circles are real. I mean, they are not hoaxes or man-made.

What makes this statement of yours a "scientific" one, any better than beliefs in gods or miracles? My advise - ask your school to return whatever you paid them. You didn't learn anything there.

BREAKING NEWS - Crop circles, Aliens, UFOs and "The Bermuda Triangle" are the new hardcore physics, people!
Seriously, I can't even begin to laugh!

blackpearl said:
P.S: One last advice: stop reading Carl Segan, instead read Stephen Hawking.

Don't need your advice. There are better scientists in the field today than Stephen Hawking. And, Carl Sagan was a great scientist and a decent story-teller, but I don't take their words for granted.

You're not even worth having a discussion with. You have little clue about the really high-level physics, cosmology, "theories", scientists and interent politics therein.

PS [To all] - I'm neither against science, not comparing it with religion(s). But, there are a lot of "assumed" elements in high-level physics that have never been proved or shown to be correct by experiments. Some are even beyond any experiment. All the mathematical theories and models of portraying and understanding the Universe are - only mathematical beauties at best. Sure, this is the way science progresses, but it would not be correct saying there is not belief or faith in science whatsoever. What if you learned about black hole in your school and still think they exist? That's your belief, because it may not exist according to some theories, and if one of these theories are accepted worldwide, then textbooks will omit any mention of black hole altogether. And, no mathemetial model can prove whether we're living in a simulation, or not.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I feel its going to be just a religious debate

nothing like other than
No one wanna lose

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

piyush619 said:
I feel its going to be just a religious debate

nothing like other than
No one wanna lose

Care to point it out where exactly it looked like a "religious debate" to you? If you cannot, keep your personal "feelings" to yourself. You're not contributing to this thread in any way.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Hold on guys......you people are deviating from the topic. For any debate over religion, God and the Science or the Myth behind, you people are welcome to *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39882 .

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Yamaraj said:
Care to point it out where exactly it looked like a "religious debate" to you? If you cannot, keep your personal "feelings" to yourself. You're not contributing to this thread in any way.

Mind ur words dude
u seems to be $$$

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

piyush619 said:
Mind ur words dude
u seems to be $$$

Learn to write correct English, first. And mind your own sorry rear, for I won't spare you if you don't.
__________

planetcall said:
Hold on guys......you people are deviating from the topic. For any debate over religion, God and the Science or the Myth behind, you people are welcome to *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39882 .

No deviation from my side. All I'm suggesting is that UFOs, Alients, Time travel etc are no better than religious beliefs, provided that no proof or experimental evidence exists yet. If the same people can b*tch about the religions on the same grounds - i.e, no evidence or proofs, why is it so hard to admit that it's essentially the very "belief and faith" that drives them to discuss these things.

This is more about Science Vs. Pseudo-science, concepts Vs evidence and belief Vs nihilism.

S

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Yamaraj, its OK if you don't believe in something but don't try starting a flame war. I don' want the thread to be permanently locked. Stay cool, stay calm.

@all: Whats the use of dragging personal attacks? quoting each and everyline makes this thread look like a debate.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

yeah everyone seems to quote-flame.quote-flame.please calm down guys.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Oops! What the hell has happened to this thread? Religion religion religion,...ufff! It is making more rounds here than the actual matter in context. Please stop it guys.

Letz change the topic and start discussing about UFO. Say...
__________
What technology can drive an UFO achieve such a high speed? Lets discuss about it....

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

alien technology.it is quite simple as that

.matter closed.your are free to flame again guys

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Hey guys it seemed like that @yamraajjj is trying to force us to accept what he belieives

tell him its his own thinking nor ours

WHAT THE HELL IS GOIN ON IN THIS THREAD

i feelll FatBeing was right in closing this thread at its early stages

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I won't post in this thread anymore, at least not until some sensible discussion begins to take place. Your physics is too Newtonian-Euclidian to be true in spacetime, and too high-schoolish to be hardcore. The so-called *scientific* discussion is nothing more than a few "wannabes" chiming in their childish pipedreams.

Enjoy your *hardcore*. Nobel anyone?

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Listen. If you won't post anything here, just do it. No need to give any comments regarding posts and people here. No one bothers about your opinions. All I know is that this thread was doin well and many people were learning new things here. It's all about sharing stuff here.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Kiran_tech_mania said:
Listen. If you won't post anything here, just do it. No need to give any comments regarding posts and people here. No one bothers about your opinions. All I know is that this thread was doin well and many people were learning new things here. It's all about sharing stuff here.

Speak for yourself, and don't preach to the choir.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Uff! I have no intention to preach to anybody or....oops forget it.

For this simple reason you negative repped me? Bizarre! That shows how childish you are.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Kiran_tech_mania said:
For this simple reason you negative repped me? Bizarre! That shows how childish you are.

Childish? Raaabo awarded me -50 points only because I didn't agree with him. Besides, I've been getting a lot of -ve reps for no reason. But I don't give a bloody damn about it. I'll probably even rep down Raaabo again only to enjoy another bunch of -50 sweetness. :evil:

As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap. What goes around, comes around.
You are free to -ve rep me all you want to. It's the new game of this season.

X

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

GUYS, CHILL OUT nWATCH SOME DISCOVERY SHOWS.

ALL UR MYTHS N DOUBTS WILL COME TO A REST THEN.

DO UFOs exist ?? - Yep, absolutely.

U cant travel at the speed of light ?? - Wait, for another 30 years n we will start sayin -- Absolutely.

How ?? - Ask ur great grandchildren. He will know the answer from his Science book.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Ya UfOs exist!
But they dont abduct ppl.....

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

@Yamaraj:

I'm not going to question your scientific views any further, since you seem to be more learned than any one on this planet. So consider me out of this discussion. As for you, feel free to hurl abuses and insults at others, I guess its your birth right. Atleast you've got a big vocabulary of swear words and insults and you must be proud of it.

Yamaraj said:
Raaabo awarded me -50 points only because I didn't agree with him. Besides, I've been getting a lot of -ve reps for no reason

The reason is, most people are too decent to insult you at your face and so they have shown their dissent through -ve reps. I hope you have understood, but I'm sure you must have other explanations.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

blackpearl said:
The reason is, most people are too decent to insult you at your face and so they have shown their dissent through -ve reps. I hope you have understood, but I'm sure you must have other explanations.

Wow! You'll make a pretty good apologist. Here's an example for you: -
"IF you arent interested in people's laughter, just try derepping those replies. Not showing disinterest by using words such as 'Meh' or 'Pfft'"

It was a -ve rep comment, against this post of mine - *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=376741&postcount=14

Someone just couldn't digest a sarcastic reply to an absurd one! Nonetheless, I took his/her advice to the heart. Now, I'm derepping anyone and everyone.

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

I'm a little busy so I won't reply to everything that's been posted since my last post, but i will soon...

Yamaraj said:
Childish? Raaabo awarded me -50 points only because I didn't agree with him. Besides, I've been getting a lot of -ve reps for no reason. But I don't give a bloody damn about it. I'll probably even rep down Raaabo again only to enjoy another bunch of -50 sweetness.

As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap. What goes around, comes around.
You are free to -ve rep me all you want to. It's the new game of this season.

I negative repped you for not reading a post before quoting and replying to it. Such behaviour is certainly not acceptable on a public forum of discussion.

A lot of people here may not agree with your views, but they all have the courtesy to read your posts properly and try and understand them before replying or contradicting.

If there's a problem, it's with the fact that your ego is a little too inflated, which is the only explanation for which someone on a public forum would make a statement like "I never read past the first line of your post..." as a way of refuting an arguement.

We have no doubt that you are intelligent, unfortunately, you seem to not credit anyone else with intelligence, and have the opinion that anyone with a different viewpoint must be wrong, and deserves to be abused and flamed.

An interesting observation i've made from meeting people online here and then offline later is that people who are usually the most aggressive under the cover of anonymity, such as on this forum, usually turn out to be pussycats in real life. In your case, this would translate to you being the kindest, gentlest, most lovable guy on planet Earth, in the real world. So there's no need to stop posting here, and there's no need for anyone else to ask you to stop posting here... It's all just fun, and arguements are always good, because whether people are big enough to admit it or not, we always learn something after hearing a different viewpoint. Let's just keep this healthy, and keep all the flaming out of this...

I'm moving this to Fight Club so that we can excuse the slightly personal remarks, like calling each other's theories idiotic and stuff... but I would still appreciate it if we kept extremely personal remarks out of this, and did not stoop to flaming and calling each other names...

@yamraj: I hope the reason for the negative rep is clear. It was not for disagreeing with me, but for not reading a post before quoting and replying to it... I'm sure you'll get enough positive reps to make up the difference if you can be a little more civil and patient with the rest of the members....

Raaabo

PS: The name's Raaabo not "Rabo", please...

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
PS: The name's Raaabo not "Rabo", please...

Raaabo said:
@yamraj: I hope the reason for the negative rep is clear. It was not for disagreeing with me, but for not reading a post before quoting and replying to it... I'm sure you'll get enough positive reps to make up the difference if you can be a little more civil and patient with the rest of the members....

The name is Yamaraj, sire!

Well you dropped 2 a's, I just ignored one. I guess that makes me only half a bad@ss as you, but then you knew that!

Also, I know I'm being utterly shameless, but I just wanted to tell anyone with the same idea as yamaraj:

*raaabo.com/rep.jpg

It might take awhile for negative reps to make an appreciable difference

Raaabo said:
It might take awhile for negative reps to make an appreciable difference

Haha! However minor it may have been, it was still a dent alright.

PS: Looks like you only need +48 points to cause an overflow and make it -2147483648. It's only a signed 32-bit integer after all!

Does this mean you will positive rep me from now on lol!

Whats going on here . . ??? :-(

i dont know if aliens exist or not . Will tell all when i see one

. And stop about the rep thing . Whats those reputation doing for you ???. Feel free to give -10 000 rep to me

. I dont even care a hell about it

. But stop giving -ve rep to others who gets easily moved by these small things . Remember we all differ in opinions . No two can have same feelings .
__________
And please someone close this thread out. :-(

i see flaming in all directions :-(

. Lets talk about tech guys

. Please stop fighting :-(

. Ok . . What is the chance that we may make "mars " friendly for living ? What tech are on the way to it ???

^^Korrect!
The thread has deviated a lot! Title like "Relevance of repute points in tech forums" is more suitable here now! Repeatition can be seen in most of the threads in Fight Clubs, people don't even care to read what has been debated and posted/replied. Even if u report them, nothing happens. Other threads with flames are closed or cleaned. This one is an exception I guess. I dunno whats going on, and people talking about a small thing as repute points!!!!????

Yeah . . Some mods please clean this or close it for gods sake . . Or change the title to "importance of stupid reputation points "the worst system implemented by digit. .

S

Easy everyone, lets change the topic to..............ehhh, ok, i have a question, Is there any end point for the universe? will it stop somewhere, if it does whats beyond it?

If the gravitational attraction of all the matter within the observable horizon were high enough, the expansion of the universe would slow, and then reverse. The universe would then contract, with about the same duration as the expansion. Eventually, all matter and energy would be compressed back into a gravitational singularity. It is meaningless to ask what would happen after this, because time, as we know it, would end in this singularity.
However, recent experimental evidence (namely the observation of distant supernova as standard candles, and the well-resolved mapping of the cosmic microwave background) has—to considerable surprise—shown that the expansion of the universe is not being slowed down by gravity, but instead, accelerating, suggesting that the universe will not end with a Big Crunch, but will instead expand forever, though some scientists have contested this theory.

S

Ray said:
If the gravitational attraction of all the matter within the observable horizon were high enough, the expansion of the universe would slow, and then reverse. The universe would then contract, with about the same duration as the expansion. Eventually, all matter and energy would be compressed back into a gravitational singularity. It is meaningless to ask what would happen after this, because time, as we know it, would end in this singularity.
However, recent experimental evidence (namely the observation of distant supernova as standard candles, and the well-resolved mapping of the cosmic microwave background) has—to considerable surprise—shown that the expansion of the universe is not being slowed down by gravity, but instead, accelerating, suggesting that the universe will not end with a Big Crunch, but will instead expand forever, though some scientists have contested this theory.

I agree with you, as u said the universe is expanding, thats means, theres an end point to it. Now my question is whats next to that????

anothere big universe or something like that....the reality is that we dont even know 1/4th of 1/4 of 1/4 about the universe....forget the universe we even dont know the full species in this earth.....
1.what happened to dinosaurs???
2.In "Puranas" there is a clear cut reccord of how to use "aeroplanes" and how to "crash Land"...why is that info lost??????
3.what about the radio active skeletons found in india??????does that indicate that there has been a neuclear war fought back in time?????and that history is to repeat itself????

*www.audarya-fellowship.com/forums/newsletters-journals/31909-atomic-warfare-ancient-india.html

*www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&sa=X...cd=1&q=radioactive+skeletons+in+india&spell=1

and lastly

what did the "Nine Unknown Men " founded by asoka actually discover??????????????????????

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Unknown_Men

We don't know for sure if the Universe is expanding or not. Same goes for the Big-"loud"-Bang theory. Cosmologists are like the seven blind men exploring an elephant, in that their "theories" and observations are very limited and restricted to only a small part of of an unknown *thing* we otherwise know as the Universe. It's something like a sea crab trying to figure out how the oceans were born. But even that isn't a fair comparison by any means. The Universe may very well be of an infinite size and have existed forever.

existentialism? anybody?
its pretty much the solution for me...

rather than goin into a wild goose chase to find out how i (we) got here, i'd just settle for me... tho its a little vague, but yea, like all other theories, i guess it is as self-consolatory...
so i'd do my time here, and wait for the zillion dollar question, as to whats next...

.

Ray said:
If the gravitational attraction of all the matter within the observable horizon were high enough, the expansion of the universe would slow, and then reverse. The universe would then contract, with about the same duration as the expansion. Eventually, all matter and energy would be compressed back into a gravitational singularity. It is meaningless to ask what would happen after this, because time, as we know it, would end in this singularity.
However, recent experimental evidence (namely the observation of distant supernova as standard candles, and the well-resolved mapping of the cosmic microwave background) has—to considerable surprise—shown that the expansion of the universe is not being slowed down by gravity, but instead, accelerating, suggesting that the universe will not end with a Big Crunch, but will instead expand forever, though some scientists have contested this theory.

I've read that argument be4.
Did you know that its still not as evident as to account for the matter in the universe..i.e., the observable matter is far less than the expected mass of the universe as extrapolated from the big bang by the background radiation, wherein comes in the paradoxical postulation of the so called "dark matter"
The "big crunch" is ruled out by the Hubble's laws and related observations.
However that is just a figament of the as yet known physics.
As we develop a more sound theory, we will soon find out that super symmetry plays a role even in the large scale universe.
Let the Grand Unified Theory come first, we'll talk then.
Its just the beginning, as the oracle said, we cant see past the choices we don't understand.
The big bang too is not a perfect theory, mind you, but a hypothesis which is somewhat conclusive with observations. Hence the bizarre conclusions.
If you have read Feynman, you'll know that rules in the ordinary circumstances go berserk in extreme conditions like singularities.
Yet singularities are observed in nature.
When we can observe background radiation due to time diatation and then there is Cerenkov radiation which is a miracle in itself, we know there is more to everything we know and a loads we don't know $hit.
As a repartee, lets not argue about things we don't know by drawing conclusions from unproven facts.
May you all be driven by the pursuit of the whole truth and forget quarrelling over the mundane.

I Think They Dont Exist

shantanu_webmaster said:
I Think They Dont Exist

lol... wat a reply so late in this topic...

i just said what i wanted!!! and nothing is late when thread question is this

^^To know Pathiks' reaction when he read your previous post -See your avatar

A

Well guys the real mystery out there is the mystery of life. We do not actually know the exact definition of life. If it were known to us we would have known if 'life' can exist in other types of environment. As for time travel, It's possible if we can find a way to travel faster than or at the speed of light.

When the the fuel ;i.e; the energy of different cosmic bodies which they have due to their initial momentum due to the big bang or the formation of these bodies runs out due to the fact that all the possible elements have been fused to different combinations which may lead to a favorable free energy change extinguished than at that point the universe would stop expanding and this would lead to the big crunch where all the cosmic bodies in the universe along with all matter collapse into something which would be infinitely dense and then only the next big bang would take place.By the way don't you people think that we even after being the most advanced race in the universe (so called)we don't even know what lead to the formation of the universe and the exact process and that we can merely speculate.

i think we will be able to solve the mystery if we can "mind travel ". i wish i could do that . .

. is it really possible ?

What If Aliens Cum N They Turn Hostile ...like They Showed In Independence Day?...
Simple Soln----
Send All Of Our Politicians On Their Space Ship!!

Aft That Jus C Da Fun....

Looks like aliens have seen this thread......"Pilots see baffling fireball over india" ,source:- ,Sunday Express head line, 04/3/07
Does aliens exist?? Yes its only a matter of time before they come to us

I think the most important question for us is 'Where does the boundaries to the universe stand, are there any boundaries?'

what do u guys think.. i mean seriously.. and please dont say the most emp question is 'what is the answer to life, the universe and everythigh'

^ check
*www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=178025

Our country consists of a lot of Aliens("Politicians"-the dictionary term) who dont even know when India was formed!!!
(I think it was on the Independence Day that Aaj Tak showed some footages of some well known politicians who didnt know when India got independence)

yes aliens do exist.
We should be fools to think otherwise.
Come one when was life on earth possible? there are galaxies far more older than our earth.

they might not look like what we see in movies but i do feel and think they will not look like us.
(but i hope the women are HOT

)

Time travel is not possibele cause.
they theory says anything crossing the speed of light will be able to the future or the past is not possible. the reason we can not build such a thing its impossible even in the alien world, the faster we travel the heavier we are, now by the time we reach the speed of light we are already weighing infinity.
Now we all know that its not possible to go any futher when we are infinity kilos !!!

Yes I Do believe in UFO ,how can say that there is no other plannet other than earth that that hav got life on it ? whether we r able to find them or not ,,,,,
may b they r more advance than ours .....thats why they can travel to our plannet but we cant!!!!!!!!

Yup....Proof....Crop Circles....have also appeared in India....MP.

Peace~~~!

well.. they have also caugt an alien luking creature. theres lots tat proof tat there is life elsewhere bt "where" , is the Q.........

^IS this wat u r saying?

Time travel is not possible since if in the future we r able time travel then they can come to our present time but they r not.that proves it.
OR
time travel is like using a telephone both end has to have a time machine to travel back and forth

S

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

wizrulz said:
YUP they exist......but if anyone wants proof then sorry.....as no one can give proof if GOD exists....

There's a simple answer to that. god doesn't exist.

Aliens do exist!!!

I am the one. ;-)

Hee hee!!

Ok seriously, there might be other creatures like us. Maybe they are living between us in disguise. They can be most successful persons in world because of their increased intelligence.
(&*^%^*$.. Oh I am getting a transmisission on my PC - #^%^@#$%#$^

They are sending me the PIC of their representative in world...
Oh my god...
VISHAL GUPTA is an alien. ;-)

Time Travel
Not possible. Not atleat in near 100 years.

P.S. : Sorry vishal if you didn't like my joke. But don't send ur alien friends to kill me.

T

humans are not good enough that they can deny the existence of aliens..the video might be fake though..

A

yup they exist i think... There are lot of galaxies in the Universe and so the planets. There must be living community yaar !!!

Regrding Time travel... Einstein says that time travel is possible one condition:
1. You should be able to travel more than the speed of light.
But it's not like the one shown in Hollywood Movies, e.g. Back to the future.

Example:
Consider two people in space. One person is able to travel more than speed of light and the other is at rest. Then the person who can travel will in future to the person who is at rest and hence for the person travelling that will be his past. This is Einstein's theory.
So , i think if we are able to achieve speed more than that of light, then time travel is posible, BUT that itself is next to impossible so i think, we have to go a looooooooooooong way for it!!!

How Was The Pyramids Built???

solomon_paulraj said:
How Was The Pyramids Built???

go n do watch something on natgeo n discovery other than ...........

fun2sh said:
go n do watch something on natgeo n discovery other than ...........

How pyramids are build is still a mystery, even the experts in this field are not sure abt it.

amol48 said:
yup they exist i think... There are lot of galaxies in the Universe and so the planets. There must be living community yaar !!!

Regrding Time travel... Einstein says that time travel is possible one condition:
1. You should be able to travel more than the speed of light.
But it's not like the one shown in Hollywood Movies, e.g. Back to the future.

In this case,traveling faster than light, one will go to past.But its impossible to travel even at the speed of light, since it'll need Infinite power.
Again using 'traversable' wormhole one can go to past.
Again as you may know gravity slows time. So if one person stays in high gravitational mass, say near event horizon of Black hole ,then other events in universe would move very fast for him like a fast fwd film. His one year stay in event horizon of black hole will equvalent to 1000s yr in earth.Thus he can travel to future.
Approaching the light speed also slows time. So if one person travels at near light speed to a far body,like pluto, then travels back to earth , time passed for whim will be less than time passed for earth observer.Best example is twin paradox.

But time travel looks impossible, cause if it was achived in some time in future we would've seen future travelers ....

A

yes aliens do exist there are some examples on earth in which life is growing in adverse condition

cyberboy_kerala said:
How pyramids are build is still a mystery, even the experts in this field are not sure abt it.

A new theory, and probably the best.

The Surprising Truth Behind the Construction of the Great Pyramids

blackpearl said:
A new theory, and probably the best.

The Surprising Truth Behind the Construction of the Great Pyramids

Agreed , the best theory heard till date

but still more to be revealed

Also, casting would explain why some of the stones fit so closely together. Still, as with all great mysteries, not every aspect of the pyramids can be explained. How the Egyptians hoisted 70-ton granite slabs halfway up the great pyramid remains as mysterious as ever.

frm the same link

Fake

M

eggman said:
In this case,traveling faster than light, one will go to past.But its impossible to travel even at the speed of light, since it'll need Infinite power.
Again using 'traversable' wormhole one can go to past.
Again as you may know gravity slows time. So if one person stays in high gravitational mass, say near event horizon of Black hole ,then other events in universe would move very fast for him like a fast fwd film. His one year stay in event horizon of black hole will equvalent to 1000s yr in earth.Thus he can travel to future.
Approaching the light speed also slows time. So if one person travels at near light speed to a far body,like pluto, then travels back to earth , time passed for whim will be less than time passed for earth observer.Best example is twin paradox.

But time travel looks impossible, cause if it was achived in some time in future we would've seen future travelers ....

May be technology Now dosent allow us travel speed of light
but we can't predict next technologies now it will take time to know the real truth may be.
but we cant deny that microorganism are also alien,our understandings on time dimenssion are of now very limited and of UFO I do believe some may be true but probrally not all.

Mayur said:
May be technology Now dosent allow us travel speed of light
.

Its not about technology. No matter how advance you are you cannot provide Infinite power.........its impossible.......

Hi Guys,

Saw this link today wanted to share.....what's your view about this.

*www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page2022.html?theme=light

hmmm. cool. but i wonder where the aliens sit. or probably they tried sitting in the center and all fell out

It may not be a vessel to carry the aliens, might be to take some photos, to do atmospheric survey....like what we send to Mars and others....

@Digit_Dragon
Hoax nothing more.

Yep, thats a clean hoax! :lol:

F

yes,ufo can be there.time travel is also possible acc. to the theory of relativity.bt.it s not possible till date

i too believe in ufos.&time travel is even possile acc to the theory of relativity

I do not believe in god, but i can't say that aliens do not exist coz earth got created on big bang and then some chemical reaction due to that living things come to existent..........

in my opinion big bang wass not only made for earth and our neighbor but there are millions of star's which which have done big bang.

Who knows somebody is watching us? Some creepy looking monster from jupiter (Its a gas cloud but who knows if the aliens swim in air)?

L

There are aliens i believe but i wish i saw one of course i don't wanna get killed by those insects ahem i mean if they do look like whats being shown that box thing they call tv

i've seen a UFO

. it looked like a ball of light in the sky at night. first it was still like a star but suddenly it moved very fast in zig zag then disappeared & reappeared then went straight then disappeared.

must be a new eye disorder...

^^ Zigzagopia :))

zigzaglightohallucinatopia

A

Who knows they may be monitoring this forum and reading this thread, and thinking how dumb humans are??

Aliens may exist, maybe not in this solar system but in other galaxies and solar systems

well if u think that aliens do not exist than ur dumb....its not possible that its only our earth which was lucky enough to have a sweet moon which helped life to start...by the i wana change the topic to MULTIVERSE and MOON HELP IN THE MORNING OF LIFE ON EARTH

how come the existance of life on earth is related to the moon?

Yes time travel is possible. How do i know? CAuse I'm from future.
And I still cant believe that you guys stilll need forum. Its so outta fashion.
Well maybe not in this decade, but its outdated in the decade I live(or used to live.....my machine's not working

).

dark_side_of_the_moon said:
Yes time travel is possible. How do i know? CAuse I'm from future.
And I still cant believe that you guys stilll need forum. Its so outta fashion.
Well maybe not in this decade, but its outdated in the decade I live(or used to live.....my machine's not working).

Oh really! Welcome to our time then!

M

Yes i think it will be exist,because present time consist of very very highly advanced technology,so nothing is impossible,everything is possible at any of the end.

How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

believe it or not guys, but existence of UFOs or ET [extra-terrestrials] is as real as the existence of humans on this planet..!!!

there is a "world blanket of secrecy" surrounding the UFO question as no govt in the world is willing to accept the existence of a FORCE against which there is no possibility of defence..!!!!

of course i believe in their existence n i keep researching about their sightings, but how many of u believe in it..!!????

*www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/08/scitime108.xml

*www.newswise.com/articles/view/532037/

Time travel possible in future

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

codred said:
believe it or not guys, but existence of UFOs or ET [extra-terrestrials] is as real as the existence of humans on this planet..!!!

there is a "world blanket of secrecy" surrounding the UFO question as no govt in the world is willing to accept the existence of a FORCE against which there is no possibility of defence..!!!!

of course i believe in their existence n i keep researching about their sightings, but how many of u believe in it..!!????

How can u say that????? any poof
..............but its a thrilling and exciting topic........I personally feel that it is possible that they exist........but there is no real proof of their existence ;-)

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

proofs are there, but only in CLASSIFIED files of US govt, NASA, ESA [european space agency], n even with russian space agencies... they all know about UFO's existence, coz they are the ones who have very closely monitored them... n if some news websites r to be believed then our own RAW has pretty good knwoledge of it.... all this info is under heavy wraps...

we vl never get to know about solid evidence of UFOs untill our governments allows it...

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

^^ Yes he is right. If u can't prove something, BLAME THE GOVT.

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

some topic is already there,
any ways i do belive that aliens exist. But if they are more advance than the human race is debatable. But their existence is for sure. That is if micro-organisms and small creatures qualify to be alines.

it is utter foolish to think that we are the only living things accross 1000 of light years.

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

who am i to provide or find solid evidence about extra-terrestrials...
scientists world-wide are spending billions of dollars to get some kind of EVIDENCE or Confirmation ...!!!

WHY ???????

coz they believe WE ARE NOT ALONE..!!!!!! [[[ *www.seti.org/ ]]]

karnivore said:
^^ Yes he is right. If u can't prove something, BLAME THE GOVT.

n whatever stuff i'm posting in this forum is based on true researches on net, if u dont have knowledge about some topic then atleast try to think over it logically, but u r straight away not ready to accept it... pitty on u my dear karnivore

& i hope u know how to do some search on google, if u dont then dont feel shy to ask me, will teach u how to do it, for absolutely FREE...!!! Limited Offer... lol

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

codred said:
we vl never get to know about solid evidence of UFOs untill our governments allows it...

Though I was never a fan of as cruel a medical procedure as lobotomy, it seems to be The Only Cure(TM) in your case.

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

^^ ha ha ha. for once, at least, i agree.

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

Yamaraj said:
Though I was never a fan of as cruel a medical procedure as lobotomy, it seems to be The Only Cure(TM) in your case.

here comes karnivore II...... hahahahaha, welcome buddy...... n the debate continues~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

karnivore said:
^^ ha ha ha. for once, at least, i agree.

with whom???

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

with karnivore II of course

Re: How many of you believe in UFOs/ET??

Moderators please merge these threads.
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41361

Arsenal_gunners said:
Moderators please merge these threads.
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41361

Merged..

u got to experience it to believe it! & i have. Anyway i use to believe it before i saw the UFO! & codred is right about gov holding all the info. think about it. they hav all the technology & stuff to monitor the space. the reason the arn't telling people is they don't want to scare people out. & they even hav some alien space craft with them & there technology which they don't want to reveal to there enemies.

Don't u guys see discovery. they even show stuff on aliens.

they have only let out to media that they hav found micro-organism in space which also r classified under aliens.

now u can't argue with this stuff. it has hard proof. ha ha ha!! now wat u going to do karnivore.

^^Another Isaac Asimov in the making.

ƒire$eeker said:
...they have only let out to media that they hav found micro-organism in space which also r classified under aliens.

Where ?? When ?? How ??

...it has hard proof

Where ?? When ?? How ??

ha ha ha!! now wat u going to do karnivore.

.....try to figure out, how r u harvesting butterflies in ur skull. :-D

[Just Kiddin]. Nothing actually. Guess there is nothing to do in the face of such "overwhelming" evidence of yours.

ƒire$eeker said:
they hav all the technology & stuff to monitor the space. the reason the arn't telling people is they don't want to scare people out. & they even hav some alien space craft with them & there technology which they don't want to reveal to there enemies. Don't u guys see discovery. they even show stuff on aliens.

u r absolutely right.... i guess my dear forum members dont watch NGC or Discovery... even last nit thr woz one prog on NGC about how aliens might be traveling in inter-galactic space.. it woz cool n amazing... scientists are already researching on very sophisticated technology [worm holes] to travel in deep space...

In 1947, a controversial event took place in New Mexico near the town of Roswell. The "Roswell Incident," as it has come to be known, remains the paramount case in UFO crash/retrieval history. In addition to the claims of a downed alien ship, alien bodies were said to have been recovered from the debris.

For details
Click

i guess my dear forum members dont watch NGC or Discovery

The last time I saw discovery they were showing all about ghosts!

In 1947, a controversial event took place in New Mexico near the town of Roswell. The "Roswell Incident," as it has come to be known, remains the paramount case in UFO crash/retrieval history. In addition to the claims of a downed alien ship, alien bodies were said to have been recovered from the debris.

For details
Click

Though I too believe that there might be some life form existing elsewhere in the Universe, but please post something that has pictures and enough facts and not story like descriptions and old and typical statements like 'I never broke that vow', 'I never released this amazing data to Major Keyhoe and NICAP, or the public, until now.' etc. Besides, I wonder why all the aliens and incidents happen in US etc. All I'm asking is to post something more intriguing!

i dont think ufos cud exist in the sense of ufos
if ufos were used by aliens, they cudnt have reached here because its like 400 light years away theyd be dead in less than 100 years
on the other hand it cud too exist but not in the way we see it it cud be like a normal transport too
life on other planets too cud exist we wud never know
and i dont think time travel IS possible because
1. u cant create the future to travel to, and
2. u cant create the past to travel to
so there cant be any time travel

A

We might be the Aliens Discussing about The Aliens??

Avis said:
We might be the Aliens Discussing about The Aliens??

i have seen a program in NGC [Ancient Astronauts:: Is It Real? series] in which some researchers were debating about the fact that in pre-historic times the aliens used to visit earth often n helped early humans to develop basic day-to-day eminities... they reportedly guided our ancestors in developing themselves as a whole.. n the aliens r also claimed to have sex with many female slaves working under them... hence, scientists believe chinese n japanese to be the antecedents of aliens...

i know it seems rediculous but thats wot the guys in that program were saying... so to some extent Avis is right.

"Alien" Skull Baffles Scientists on National Geographic TV

*www.20kweb.com/weird_stuff/wimages/vietnam_alien_skull.jpg

*www.canadayardsale.com/images/items/alien%20skull.jpg

*thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/ufo/alienskull002.jpg

codred said:
hence, scientists believe chinese n japanese to be the antecedents of aliens...

^OMG

Let i post this in some chinese forums

btwn where is the source for this

praka123 said:
^OMG Let i post this in some chinese forums
btwn where is the source for this

I know it sounds weird, but even I've seen the prog codred is talking about. If you ever happen to see it, it may make you think.

i have updated my last post... the skull which was shown in tht prog is the 2nd picture...

n the aliens r also claimed to have sex with many female slaves working under them... hence, scientists believe chinese n japanese to be the antecedents of aliens...

Holy fuking crap.........its one thing to be a "believer" and quite opposite to be a sheer imbecile. But this is a real stretch, takes the "cake", no doubt.

umm so chines and japs are aliens
cud explain why japs create and chines pirate
get it?

N

entrana said:
umm so chines and japs are aliens
cud explain why japs create and chines pirate
get it?

lol.also explains why nokia phones and laptop batteries burst all over the world..!
anyways i think aliens do exist.and will wait for time machine to b invented

Ancient Astronaunts::: Is It Real??

Tonight at 11pm at NGC.

they vl show u that alien skull which is in my previous post

thansk for the post will watch, hopefully

codred said:
*www.canadayardsale.com/images/items/alien%20skull.jpg

Someone on youtube proved this picture wrong.
This guy investigates paranormal.

Time machines have been around us for a long time, its just that we have stopped looking at them in that way. For example a few centuries ago people used to travel around on foot, then slowly it advanced to use of animals, carts,cars,railway and planes. What used to take hours/days a few cnturies ago now takes a few minutes/hours is it not a kind of time machine? A modern jet flies at many times the speed of sound/bullet fired from a gun. Now imagine a jet and a bullet fired from a rifle travelling at same speed in the same direction, now if the jet view the bullet it will look to be in static/equal motion, if the jet flies faster than the bullet then the bullet looks as if it is travelling in the reverse direction. the same way if a rocket flies at twice the speed of light from earth to say neptune taking 4 minutes to reach the planet turns back and looks towards the earth it will be seeing the earth a few/4 minutes before, but in actuallity the earth would have progressed even further/8 minutes than what it is seeing, so in fact the rocket has travelled in time and seen the past.However i doubt we will be able to see/travel to the future.

I have a post on UFOs on my blog. Read and tell me what you think about it?

*instantfundas.blogspot.com/2007/09/this-is-how-people-spot-ufos_05.html

This thread seems to have died or been hijacked by others who lack a basic understanding of the principles behind the theory time travel, space-time and the likes. Before posting any further, please read:

Time Travel
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel

Space-Time Continuum
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Aliens / ETs
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life

UFOs
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO

Since nothing on Wikipedia can be considered the gospel truth, especially on subjects as complicated as this, you don't have to agree with everything you read at those links I've posted. However, you should read it all to get a better idea about the various theories that exist so that you can make an informed comment on the subject.

Raaabo

punk said:
Time machines have been around us for a long time, its just that we have stopped looking at them in that way. For example a few centuries ago people used to travel around on foot, then slowly it advanced to use of animals, carts,cars,railway and planes. What used to take hours/days a few cnturies ago now takes a few minutes/hours is it not a kind of time machine? A modern jet flies at many times the speed of sound/bullet fired from a gun. Now imagine a jet and a bullet fired from a rifle travelling at same speed in the same direction, now if the jet view the bullet it will look to be in static/equal motion, if the jet flies faster than the bullet then the bullet looks as if it is travelling in the reverse direction. the same way if a rocket flies at twice the speed of light from earth to say neptune taking 4 minutes to reach the planet turns back and looks towards the earth it will be seeing the earth a few/4 minutes before, but in actuallity the earth would have progressed even further/8 minutes than what it is seeing, so in fact the rocket has travelled in time and seen the past.However i doubt we will be able to see/travel to the future.

What you have described is viewing the past, not travelling to it. In theory, travelling to the past is only possible when you exceed the speed of light, which as of now, is impossible. The inference is thus that travel to the past is impossible. Viewing the past is very very easy actually. Though most of us always give the example of travelling faster than the speed of light, you could just view all home videos as a look into the past. Those photographs of your first birthday are examples of looking into the past.

Stephen Hawking said that time travel to the past was impossible, and that the fact that there are no time travellers visiting us from the future is proof of that. He went on to allow for TT into the past by suggesting that perhaps the time traveller can only go back until the invention of the time machine, and no further. Other opinions say that perhaps you can only travel back into your own time, because if you tried to travel back into a time when you dont exist, you would disappear.

Other theories try and account for the universal mass constant, saying that if you travelled back one year in time, you would arrive at the same place YOU were, one year ago, as YOURSELF. There would not be two of you running about wreaking havoc on poor little planet earth, there would be just you, and it's not clear whether you would have any memory of the trip or your future self.

As for travelling into the future, just travelling (at speeds comparable to C) away into space and returning would suffice. There's a popular story about an astronaut who went to a distant galaxy at like 0.75C and returned a few years later to find that his wife had died, his daughter (who his wife was pregnant with when he left) was now a grandmother and over 80 years old. Again, there's no plausable theory about travelling to the future and meeting your future self, you will go to your future, as YOURSELF in that timeline.

An interesting theory is that we just haven't learnt to control the human brain, and we can actually view the future when the right neurons fire. This theory attempts to explain the phenomenon of Deja Vu. there are different levels of Deja Vu, and sometimes you can only feel it happening in terms of micro seconds - while your friend is speaking you know exactly what he is going to say next, but while you're thinking it, it happens - no time to react, no time to think, it's almost happening simultaneously.

Then there's a more advanced form, where you might experience something and know what's going to happen an hour later. This is more freaky, scary and not so easily explained. Some people are pretty accurate with their recollection of future events.

An Example: Back when Tendulkar and Ganguly had just started, some friends and I were sitting and watching a cricket match. It was some late match and India were fielding first. One particular friend fell asleep. When he woke up we told him India had bowled terribly, the other team (cannot remember who now, but i think it was England) had made a big score and we were already sensing defeat. He was still sleepy and told us, "dont worry, we will win. Ganguly will score 127 in 112 balls not out and Tendulkar will score 89 in 60 balls; we will win in just 43.2 overs."
(I made up those numbers, because i cannot remember now exactly what he said, but it was a match where Tendulkar and Ganguly played like geniuses) He went back to sleep immediately afterwards, India had just started batting then. We watched the match, and we were horrified to see that he was absolutely right, whatever numbers he told us were EXACT. It was like he had seen the match already, or had seen the next day's papers (because he had told us details like Ganguly not out, 127(112), Tendulkar LBW bowled some guy 89(60), etc., like the scorecard in the next day's papers. When we woke him up, he did not remember saying any of it, or even waking up!

Till this day I cannot explain how he got such a clear glimpse into the future, and perhaps it was a dream he had; but it was a dream that was spot on.

So yes, I probably believe in things like time travel (or glimpses into the past / future), because of a few incidents like the one I have described that leave me with no logical answers.

How many of you have had similar experiences or at least experienced deja vu?

Raaabo

i experienced a Deja VU ! when i watched the MOVIE

, well jokes apart !

many times it feels when you pass by a certain place, that you have had there before. No matter that you know that this is the first time you are visiting the place, but it seems that somehow you know this place or a particular event.

All the things cannot be explained to even proved, but i do beleive that some things exist as they influence us by some means.

let me also go in a bit detail about a very awesome(awesome coz i felt it again and again)
i was about 14 and my 9th class examinations were going on. there was study load which everyone has, As i never sleep in the afternoon time, i used to study that time. and sleep early at night. one day after coming from school i felt a bit drizzy and went to sleep, suddenly i felt that i fell from bed and saw a big and deep water type circle enlarging in front of my eyes, there was a rope in between, as for curiousity i felt like touching the rope , but it took me to half way inside the circle, suddenly i heard someone saying me to get back.. and all things changed to something i cannot explain.. i saw myself getting 98 marks in maths and also saw my principal calling and appreciating me, as my father promised me a hero puch if i got above 95% , i got excited and returned back from that Black hole sort thing. when i woke up i was in HOSPITAL, and it was about 3 dayz i was there.. i cant forget how that time went by. i really dont know... and what happened to me was told to me by doctors.. the main blood carrier of my heart to my mind was somehow knotted and the supply stopped.. if this vein stops carrying the blood or if the blood is stopped for only 3 MS a person can die !

so my results man it was the same as i saw in the dream.. and result i got a Splendour instead of hero puch that time and a new comp.

this is something i can't forget, and beleive me i saw a program on DISCOVERY Channel , and they proved that same ring i saw as DEATH.. so i feel like being a person whose has seen death.. and beleive me its worth to be seen

shantanu tats amazing...wt happenned to u is NDE(Near-Death Experiences)....wt u said abt the circle and the rope is similar to da peoples who had NDE ,people who had cardiac arrest n some how returned back to life have reported very similar experience.
*aleroy.com/Proof.htm
*www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1657919,00.html

Shantanu me to had similar experiances About Near to death (but not by cardiac arrest)
will LUV to hear similar Experiances from other digitians

MY god i never searched for it. and i guess that was really amazing stuff you provided man ! thanks

The Question
Do UFOs/Aliens exist, is Time Travel possible and more...
First Do UFO/Aliens Exist. Of course they do.
Aliens are nothing but life form from another planet.There is every reason to support that life exists on another planet somewhere on this universe.
There are supposed to be more than 1million earth like planets with the same atmosphere as on earth.So its rubbish to think that life exists only on earth in this whole infinite universe.
UFO is a traveling vehicle and logic supports the cause that they will have a vehicle to travel from one point to another.
But thats it ! The end. If one thinks about aliens visiting us , in their UFO's. Its not true.Its false.
But intelligent life exists in the way i told above.What what more is the proof that they have not bothered to contact us in a real way.(The last sentence is a PJ as in poor joke)

Okay now we come to Time Travel.What do i think about it..

Its Rubbish..There is no such thing as time travel.When we travel faster than light ,its supposed that we can beat time.But as per Einstein when we travel at the speed of light or more than it, we become light(Both as per wave and particle theory)
Time travel is nothing but good imagination, where the the wish of correcting our misdeeds or visiting our past is more attractive,which forstals logic.
If one can imagine this, i had like to know, what would happen to the car which travels at the speed of light.Would you see the road ahead when one switches on the light ? Or the car will simply sallow up all the light thats coming from its head light..See its impossible situation.
On time travel i will go with the simple logic of whatever Stephen Hawkings said.

The fact that there are no time travelers visiting us from the future is proof of that

See end of discussion if one goes by logic.

To sum everything up.
Aliens and their UFO exists, but not on this earth as we know it.
Time Travel is not possible.

@ Raaabo
Whatever your friend experienced , it is not possible.He just buffed it up, the very reason we are not able to come on the exact score he came up with.It was just a summation of what he came up with in its deep sleep mind.Not a glimpse into the future.
If you are able to prove that he gave the exact score, i beg of you on my humble knees, literally eating out each and every word from this thread( Its possible.I can take a print of this post and eat it.Wouldnt it be more like it )
and give me his name , phone number and address.
I have links and ways of getting rich on his premonitions. The Cricket Satta Bazzar is damn flooding with money.

freshseasons said:
Its Rubbish..There is no such thing as time travel.When we travel faster than light ,its supposed that we can beat time.But as per Einstein when we travel at the speed of light or more than it, we become light(Both as per wave and particle theory)
Time travel is nothing but good imagination, where the the wish of correcting our misdeeds or visiting our past is more attractive,which forstals logic.
If one can imagine this, i had like to know, what would happen to the car which travels at the speed of light.Would you see the road ahead when one switches on the light ? Or the car will simply sallow up all the light thats coming from its head light..See its impossible situation.
On time travel i will go with the simple logic of whatever Stephen Hawkings said.

Not fully rubbish

Time travel theory has two cases
case 1 (proved case)
If u travel below da a speed of light ,say 80% the speed of light,u can visit the future..that is a father(at age 45) can go to the future and see his 70year old son

See impossible is nothing

case 2 (scientist are not sure abt the second one)
If u travel at the same speed of light or above it(not possible till now) time starts to go back,theoretically matter shud reverse

freshseasons said:
I have links and ways of getting rich on his premonitions. The Cricket Satta Bazzar is damn flooding with money

Yea I know abt that challenge....now no chance for u

cyberboy_kerala said:
Not fully rubbish

Time travel theory has two cases
case 1 (proved case)
If u travel below da a speed of light ,say 80% the speed of light,u can visit the future..that is a father(at age 45) can go to the future and see his 70year old son

See impossible is nothing

I still insist..time travel is rubbish..with all the aplomb.
I will tell you how..
First. the basic law of the universe.Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It only changes form.
And energy = matter.

So imagine the weird.If you are able to time travel , and visit yourself in the past there will be 2 of you.And imagine someone from future again visiting you.This will make it 3...and this should go on forever.
Now practically whole of the country decides to time travel and all people amongst all dimensions land at the same time.This country will have no place to keep all. Weird to imagine.
So this way the universal law is contradicted.
I told you..time travel is silly.Thats it ...!

Hey about that second thought why i believe there would be intelligent life on another planet.
I refuse to accept that universe would be so stupid as to pin all its hope of sustenance on this human race.

All time travel theories seem crap as of now...
btw freshseasons empty ur pm storage..

Hey guys have you read the book 'the arrow of time' by Stephen hawking.Master teacher.See how he related time to thermodynamics.
Man even thinking about time travel is so creepy.
and yes guys according to de broglie's hypothesis matter wave velocities are more than the speed of light.Note that I said matter wave velocities and not matter velocities.So stop believing what your 9th grade teacher told you.

true, we cant just create time and live in it, its bs guys, people shudnt even be thiinking about it

freshseasons said:
I still insist..time travel is rubbish..with all the aplomb.
I will tell you how..
First. the basic law of the universe.Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It only changes form.
And energy = matter.

So imagine the weird.If you are able to time travel , and visit yourself in the past there will be 2 of you.And imagine someone from future again visiting you.This will make it 3...and this should go on forever.
Now practically whole of the country decides to time travel and all people amongst all dimensions land at the same time.This country will have no place to keep all. Weird to imagine.
So this way the universal law is contradicted.
I told you..time travel is silly.Thats it ...!

Have u tried to understand what i told
case 1 is possible(proved concept)
case 2 is still in debate

Lets stop this time travel part. its so creepy. it creeps me out even thinking about it. think wat could go wrong if it was possible.

Try combining Chaos theory(butterfly effect) with time travel.Really interesting consequences.

so how's this thread

Looks like in very bad shape.Nobody is posting.

i was gone for a will & every1 stopped posting. wat the heck.

Now i back lets start back

@Devil
thanx for the reply in the graphics section

In this whole debate, I just have a few things to say..

Everybody knew that earth was flat... Until Columbus found the truth.
Everybody laughed on the idea of a human flight... until Wright Brothers did it.

In the early 19th century, your grandfather might have not believed if someone had said that a device, smaller than his palm would connect him to his buddy 27000 kms away in a matter of seconds!
The MPFI chip fitted in your bike is more powerful than what they had in Apollo11!!

It's not about what you know, or what you believe. It’s about what you'll know tomorrow! We cannot prove the existence of Ghosts, God, Aliens, Afterlife etc. but we cannot even deny them. When there's no light in the room, you cannot assume that the room is empty. We can see the truth; we just need to turn the right switch on!!

but i think if we travel back into the time den we are disturbing the past-present-future serise da way....

eg: if 2day i travel back to time of newton and catch da apple which fell on his head den imagin what will happen...or i go back in time and shoot maslf den....

Abhishek Dwivedi said:
eg: if 2day i travel back to time of newton and catch da apple which fell on his head den imagin what will happen...

nothing, but u might have smoked the old man for robbing his apple of fame!! LoL

lolz.....but seriously guys...think on it....if u can travel time den u might not change or effect it in ne way.....

Abhishek Dwivedi said:
but i think if we travel back into the time den we are disturbing the past-present-future serise da way....

eg: if 2day i travel back to time of newton and catch da apple which fell on his head den imagin what will happen...or i go back in time and shoot maslf den....

Of course, disrupting the Space-Time Continuum will cause changes, not necessarily permanent or long lasting, to the future. But that's provided you do know a way to travel back in time. And while you're at it, if you travel to the future instead, it'd be an altogether different future that probably wouldn't know of a unique time travelling machine and would change when you lead the world to a different path using your invention. Thinking about all that does give you brain-gasms, enjoy that for the moment. Like Bickford Schmeckler's Cool Ideas, yeah.

Butterfly effect.

ur right....i even thought about the universe....i have a kind of a theory...i do not belive in universe being endless...there is end 2 everything....what is endless is a system with a center and particles revolving around or near about it in different orientations...depending upon dere nature and properties...

I dunno about UFOs but the living things do exsist outside earth! Ya, in one of the jupitors satelites(named europa)!

perhaps US gov or russians have some datas reg UFOs,aliens.

H

Hey guys i found a wierd stuff on Google earth via another forum.

Just enter

Code:

37 38 46.29 N,115 45 02.56 W

in the search box

WTeffin thing is that ???

^^its a place called "little alien" near area 51, and that picture is near to it
*www.littlealeinn.com/

here is an interesting video
*www.metacafe.com/watch/22111/little_alien/

@Hackattack
wat is it??? can u take a screenshot & post it.

^^^^
*img50.imageshack.us/img50/884/66786063ym4.th.jpg

thanx!!!

I think UFO do exist

. This Universe is so big, It is certainly possible that there is life in other parts of universe. Though I don't think that even on some other planet science is so advance that they can travel to other Living planets. Or Just imagine may be our Universe is a Toy of a child on a different planet. :shock:

hey welcome sauyadav.

wat happened every1 ????
no1's posting these days.

hey,
check this thread out: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77157

E

I think UFO's are our childrens..................
actually they makes a time machine..........and they frequently come to see us ? What do u all guys think

L

^ ^ You mean like the after-life people are given UFO's to come and haunt/crap us??

erbhaskar.soni said:
I think UFO's are our childrens..................
actually they makes a time machine..........and they frequently come to see us ? What do u all guys think

ROFL this is too much... all this is crap re.. do any1 know about the parallel galaxy funda???

ALIENS ,UFOs ALL CRAP.

I cant let a sticky die, can I?

Anyway, I think universe as an apartment complex, but there is a huge distance between each flat, and each flat is very big in size. Some flats are fully constructed, and some are being built. Some flats crumble down due to earthquakes and need to be built from scratch.

i don understand 1 thing y all aliens cum only in america or other contries but not in india>>

check out "area-51" in google or wherever u like a secret place wherre there are no. of aliens...

1 thing also if there r no laiens then all the living being are on earth and whole universe is empty of living things ;-)

L

why India is the only country which is considered as "karma-bhoomi". why was nadi joshiyam given only to Indians? Its their turn now to make people believe in whatever they have to say and hide whatever they have to!

R

There are loads for video availabe on the air for reference but still we cannot confidently say wether UFo exists or not..do anybody know "Area 51" an area for the US army where civilians are banned there are many reported activities reported.

^thats becoz there is a secret army research center in area 51,so people are not allowed.

area 51 is just a big hype. actually its nothing but a testinf facility of the aircarfts which were captured by the americans of the enemy's. And also to test the new technologies. thats the real reason its got a 9 mile long runway

S

i believe in aleins ......

maybe there can be over million types of aliens.....

but i dont believe in them cummin to earth its all crap

I don't think there r aliens & time travel is also not possible.

A

such things can be seen in USA only ;-)

Uhm, i went through pages 1 -4 and then 11 and 12. Can any of you guys suggest good movies, documentaries (not streaming videos) that are worth watching. The discovery, NGC or other ones. I remember seeing some long time ago in broken parts. Very nice. I totally believe in Extra terrestrials. To think that we are the only organisms alive is ridiculous! I am not talking about teh triangle head with bid black oval eyes. But organisms, animals, creatures..
There could be walking on mars, crawling on the moon, swimming under the vast unknown oceans of Jupiter. These are just named planets. We do know that the universe extends to a unbelievably extent. we also know that its not repeating. So you can never say for sure that ET/Aliens are crap. I think its simple math- the probability of them existing is far higher.
And all the guys complaining about aliens not being sighted in India - who do you think Lord Rama and all the gods were? Certainly not humans right ?

Ok Aliens are crap.. We didn't have solid proof.. Ok ..Then whatabout GOD / Ghosts and all. We just can't say we are alone in this Universe..Also man hasn't yet landed on Mars and people are saying Aliens UFo are crap lol

facts leave no room for possibility

Dark Star said:
Ok Aliens are crap.. We didn't have solid proof.. Ok ..Then whatabout GOD / Ghosts and all. We just can't say we are alone in this Universe..Also man hasn't yet landed on Mars and people are saying Aliens UFo are crap lol

You might want to go beyond mars. Forget space - we have great mythologies which serve as a testimony for non-human existance. And yes like you yourself said, we cant say for certainity that we are alone. Do please give some thought behind what your reply before calling it "crap"

^^Just check fe posts above mine a Guest Shunah or you can find many in the same thread

Also I don't believe in Myths !!

i think it is the epitome of human arrogance of us to beleive that we're the only ones in the universe

Even if you dont believe in myth, you can try and reason out the existence of life on earth. IMO both myth and science explain it in a similar way. Myth just makes characters up like 'Manu' and 'Adam' while Science calls it 'basic unicellular' organisms.
I dont think we are debating why the aliens dont land on earth and say 'ssup' or kill us with their 'stun guns' - but weather any life does exist beyond life on our planet.

xbonez said:
i think it is the epitome of human arrogance of us to beleive that we're the only ones in the universe

+1

I

There is no existance of UFOs , Dont belive on it. The universe is huge and there is possiblity to have an planet with Live and if it's true then this Live planet are very long distance from our earth that we cant emagine even NASA dont fiend those Live Planet. But dont think they are comming out from those live planet and watching us, LOL

This UFOs are like story a Story for the childern but dont belive on real life. If you do then you are wasting your times.

^yeah ,until you meet some real alien

I

praka123 said:
^yeah ,until you meet some real alien

is that you mean you belive in alien , Ok so go ahead and search for it and make some good story for our childern and also for us. Because adult also like to reading or watching fantasy story with childern, Like Harry Porter

Hey, does nebody watched Aaj Tak news channel today between 9:30 to 10 pm, they said that Aliens attacked Romania.

According to Aaj Tak's report, they said that there was a pilot of Mig fighter plane, while roaming he saw 4 unknown objects coming near him, he asked to his superior authorities through radio , if he could fire at them. But, they said to wait.

Finally that 4 unknown things came very near & then boom. All's over.

Well, the tag at the bottom says "Breaking news: Aliens attack Romania"

I feel like laughing , lol

Maverick340 said:
Uhm, i went through pages 1 -4 and then 11 and 12. Can any of you guys suggest good movies, documentaries (not streaming videos) that are worth watching. The discovery, NGC or other ones. I remember seeing some long time ago in broken parts. Very nice. I totally believe in Extra terrestrials. To think that we are the only organisms alive is ridiculous! I am not talking about teh triangle head with bid black oval eyes. But organisms, animals, creatures..
There could be walking on mars, crawling on the moon, swimming under the vast unknown oceans of Jupiter. These are just named planets. We do know that the universe extends to a unbelievably extent. we also know that its not repeating. So you can never say for sure that ET/Aliens are crap. I think its simple math- the probability of them existing is far higher.
And all the guys complaining about aliens not being sighted in India - who do you think Lord Rama and all the gods were? Certainly not humans right ?

+1
even i think all that myth were aliens.& people thought them as god.

khansaqib101 said:
Hey, does nebody watched Aaj Tak news channel today between 9:30 to 10 pm, they said that Aliens attacked Romania.

According to Aaj Tak's report, they said that there was a pilot of Mig fighter plane, while roaming he saw 4 unknown objects coming near him, he asked to his superior authorities through radio , if he could fire at them. But, they said to wait.

Finally that 4 unknown things came very near & then boom. All's over.

Well, the tag at the bottom says "Breaking news: Aliens attack Romania"

I feel like laughing , lol

LOL!!!!

I believe in UFOs.
what I think is, some of them are already on earth!!
e.g. mosquitoes

they take samples of our blood and do research in it.
What do you say??!!

N

yes friends,
UFO's seem to be real, since day by day their attraction towrds the world has increased. i believe in UFO's and also have read many articles. but i dont know whether they are true or not, but i have a belief that they are very far more advanced in technology than us.
they are people, living on another planet, may be doing research on other planets are we do.
may be they are in the same time.

may be they have a secrt base on Earth somewhere...aftr all v dnt really knw much about our planet itself...thats y i wana b an explorer (not Windows explorer *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/10.gif)

Check out this self-compiled article on my blog
Although it is not too comprehensive, it will get you thinking...
(PS: more research is being done

)
And
I'M NOT A BELIEVER

J

Dark Star said:
Ok Aliens are crap.. We didn't have solid proof.. Ok ..Then whatabout GOD / Ghosts and all. We just can't say we are alone in this Universe..Also man hasn't yet landed on Mars and people are saying Aliens UFo are crap lol

I have always been an agnostic, but always interested in spirituality and examining the so called miracles. No idea about UFOs but sure that inexplicable things do happen.

Eleven years back myself and my younger brother with our wives were approaching our ancestral home situated in the middle of a big plot in the village after attending a marriage. While we were approaching the plot, an old man was walking slowly ahead of us wearing ancient looking dress seemingly deep in thoughts. Since the road was narrow and he being apparently absent minded, I was very careful driving. As we approached the entrance to our plot towards left, he just turned left and instantly disappeared. We stopped the car , ran out and searched everywhere but found nothing. None of us talked for about half an hour. We still have no idea of what happened. But it turned out that we all of us happened to see and feel exactly the same. Except myself, others are saying that the figure was moving a bit above ground level. Maybe be because I was concentrating more on driving.

Just wanted to share the incident and we don't have any deduction. And all of us are post graduates and not superstitious.

A

really

T

Re: UFOs, Aliens, Time Travel and more...

Raaabo said:
That's not what shashank asked... he asked what if the train was moving faster than the speed of light... and then turned on it's headlight, what would the observer standing on the ground see...

Interesting question...

there's a theory that if you're travelling faster than the speed of light, and turned on your headlights, observers will still see your headlights travel at the speed of light.

What's more interesting is that you will see time move backwards so you will see yourself starting to move backwards (away from the observer) instead of forwards (towards him).

The observer will see your headlights (and your train) after you have already passed him, but still, at the speed of light, not faster. This is because C is constant, and we cannot see things moving faster than the speed of light in real-time, we will only see them later (when the light they emit catches up to the point they just passed while moving at a speed faster than light).

Of course, all this is just one theory, because others suggest that in order to attain a speed faster than light, you have to have infinite power to accelerate, and you will become infinite mass.

This is why we currently assume that greater than C speeds are impossible, because if you are travelling at C-1 m/s, time is already almost at a standstill. So in order to accelerate that 1 m/s faster, you have to apply infinite power of acceleration to move any faster.

Raaabo

I have a different opinion to this subject. Since light is a source of energy and not any matter, it is being constantly reflected by other particles. When we travel at a speed more than light, the objects (spaces, to be precise) that were supposed to reflect the light would already be behind the lamp resulting the light to not come out at all.
I have no clear idea about speed of light so you have all the right to exploit this post.

SE><IE said:
Whoa!! Impressive.
Okey, I got it. You can't see anything faster than light because light itself is needed to be reflected off from the object which (light) can't travel more than C.
Its pretty similar to sound, you can't hear anything if it travels at speeds exceeding those of sound. But you can see (say, a plane) cuz you were using a faster sensory organ (eyes).
Consider the case of a blind person. Can he distinguish between sonic and super-sonic velocities? No.
Similarly we can't distinguish between at-light's-speed and FTL-speed.
Hope you got it

I think instead of seeing the thing clearly, you will experience a huge motion blur problem since light strikes at multiple points instead of one.

I don't know about aliens (who may exist) but the thing about UFOs and Time travel have great possibilities. An UFO might not necessarily refer to spaceship. There are numerous things like disfigured meteors etc. The thing abbout time travel may be possible. If anyone has seen the program on Discovery channel, 'Passport to Space', which deals about 'String Theory' you will know all about it!

L

Do UFOs/Aliens exist ???

Answer: Yes they do !! See the mirror and you'll get da proof

-
Ps. just jokin, take it lightly

well u.f.o.'s do exist in my opinion and i think a time might come when we will be face to face with beings superior than us.and hey has anyone heard about the BERMUDA TRIANGLE? People link it with alien sightings and with atlantis too.do tell me more about atlantis and bermuda triangle if any of you are interested.
well about the second question which quite few answered TIME TRAVELLING.
well it may be possible as according to a theory whole of the time is like a sequence of images going forward at the pace of light,just as movies do.so if the speed of light is taken as the frame rate of a movie then what would happen if your eyes went on a speed higher than the frame rate? simple you will go forth in a movie.thus if we increase the speed of ourselves to the speed of light and add just a little more of it then we will go to the next frame of time from where we started and therefore if we increase our speed manyfolds the the thing which we all imagine will happen :- TIME TRAVEL.
similarly on decreasing our speed by the fraction of light as much times keeping in mind the frame concept, we can go back in time too.
but as with all theories there is a problem with this one too and that is if you increase the speed of human body to the speed of light well then the human body will be turned to dust particles as it cannot withstand such velocity and also the heat generated by this energy will be enough to melt almost every covering that we can right now provide ourselves.so in order to achieve the feat of time traveling humans now have to achieve two thing
1-a device to let them gain speed many time greater than light.
2-a shield or covering which will save them in such dangerous enviorments.
these things which i just said are quite hard to achieve with the technology we have today but there is always hope of achieving it and it is not impossible.
well reader till it gets done, just sit back ,relax, take your cup of coffee and read digit which is your true technology navigator.

the movie looks real but it is still anomalous to predict their existence.
I deny that UFO's exists...

Here is another fake video of an UFO over Paris..Click Here
Going by the enormous size of the UFO i still can't believe that there was absolutely no chaos, no panic of the people and most importantly this person capturing all the action and uploading it on the net...lolz

R

I think we are the original Aliens...

Everyone are aliens, dude. Do remember that alien refers to any unknown person and not specifically a creature from outer space.

Even you are alien to me!

doesn't any1 where watches StarTrek? all the answers r simple...
1) Aliens do exist
2) If they can reach us, that means they r really developed and hence wouldn't come here to conquer us.
3) We might be too primitive for them to contact and they must be waiting for a certain phase of time to come when we would be prepared to meet them.
4) THEY REALLY EXIT...its as simple as that

Well, if they are developed, then they would only try to take over us?

Universal Domination!!!

Dragoon said:
Well, if they are developed, then they would only try to take over us?

Universal Domination!!!

its not that...no specie is Savage and dominating...that what make thm an Intelligent Being

Then dude, they would have atleast been with diplomatic stance with us by now!
Why then do they just frighten us and get away even before someone makes an alarm?

[offtopic]Please correct your sentence - "no specie is not savage and dominating" - -ve and -ve makes an affiramtive, makes me think that you're agreeing with me![\offtopic]

aare...all those incidences are fake...crap...nothing more...lolz...am 2000000% sure that thy havnt yet visited us...may b knw us and r waiting for the right time...startrek deekh yar..

They havn't tried to pick any of us up yet(mabe in the NEAR or DISTANT future) but it's possible they exist.

I eman itna bada universe god ne aise hi banaya kya? kya god? aur insaano jiase jeev-jantu banana chaiye that na!

C

shashank_digitreader said:
Do u think UFOs exist? i started thinking of it when i saw this video, its so real.
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ywcyqvRmU

try visiting this link n see the video(sceptics also)
Wat the H**l was that creature was ,I dun understand!

Well, there was news sum tyme bak tht US has captured an Alien and blah blah **** of their's as usual

well there is some line in Contact (the book and the movie) which goes something like the universe is a waste of space without ETI. Life cannot be a miracle that happens on earth alone... with so many stars out there, and so many planetary systems, there simply has to be life on many planets. Island societies - we probably won't meet each other mostly because they would be here if interstellar travel was possible. The distances are simply too vast. We can always hope for radio contact though - that will possibly be the only mode of communication across the vast distances. So pump in more funds into SETI.

The video - and all other UFO videos out there are definately crap.

About time travel... well, that's a very complex issue. We all travel through time in one direction and at a constant velocity. Some limited amount of time distortion is possible because of the way it behaves at high speeds. But doing something like walking around with the dinosaurs, or visiting Earth 2500 is impossible, simply because if it could be done, it would already be done... at least we would be seeing a few time travellers around. Croocks and hacks not included.

A

I wish to say, the answer to these questions r in our mind........the best thing about homo sapiens is our brain power....There is a part in our brain called sub-conscious part, which has all da answers in it.....But we r not just concentratin enuf to understand our brain.......accordin to me mind power is the greatest thing in da whole universe.....ability of our brain to dream, imagine the wildest thing we never can c in reality, etc points out the wat we use is infinitely small part of brain.......Once we know all abt our brain ..everythin is possible....TElepathy, telekinesis, teleportation and even time travel....IF we fully understand our brain power, then we wont need a time machine to travel.......u can just do it wid ur mind power...brain is da most powerful and complex part of our body...its lyk a 10000Tera byte HDD with the universe' best configuration and with a awesome OS installed in it, but we r just using it to play minesweeper........And for aliens, i think if they exist they wont have highly advanced technologies lyk we think , Simply they would have understood themselves well....For us, there's still a lot to evolute..So my question is how to understand oneself?

J

ajit456 said:
I wish to say, the answer to these questions r in our mind........the best thing about homo sapiens is our brain power....There is a part in our brain called sub-conscious part, which has all da answers in it.....But we r not just concentratin enuf to understand our brain.......accordin to me mind power is the greatest thing in da whole universe.....ability of our brain to dream, imagine the wildest thing we never can c in reality, etc points out the wat we use is infinitely small part of brain.......Once we know all abt our brain ..everythin is possible....TElepathy, telekinesis, teleportation and even time travel....IF we fully understand our brain power, then we wont need a time machine to travel.......u can just do it wid ur mind power...brain is da most powerful and complex part of our body...its lyk a 10000Tera byte HDD with the universe' best configuration and with a awesome OS installed in it, but we r just using it to play minesweeper........And for aliens, i think if they exist they wont have highly advanced technologies lyk we think , Simply they would have understood themselves well....For us, there's still a lot to evolute..So my question is how to understand oneself?

Yes, first of all let's ask "Who am I", as Ramana Maharshi said.

A

*www.witchesteats.com/img/grays.gif*4.bp.blogspot.com/_YTJBDUN8iSE/Ryrt7q-VTtI/AAAAAAAAAXU/2XhEDMnFnIg/s400/ubaid-reptilian.jpg*www.texemarrs.com/images/Lizard2.gifdoes anyone believe these guys exist?

A

*bkondepudi.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/aeroplane1.jpg*www.alienshift.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/EgyptAliens.jpg*www.xfacts.com/map/Ancient_artifacts.jpg*images.stage6.com/videos/1683739.jpg*science.kukuchew.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/ancient-alien-picture.jpg*www.crystalinks.com/sumerartgray.jpg*ufos.homestead.com/quet21.jpg*www.freedomdomain.com/UFO/ufo_Family_Photo494T.jpg*truthism.com/images-2/rep1.jpg*educate-yourself.org/cn/casbolt6chappic7cropedit350w.jpg*www.alien-ufo-pictures.com/reptile-alien.jpg

A

i think there are lot of evidence if you know where to look for

A

*www.alien-ufo-pictures.com/al3big.jpg*www.cropcircleconnector.com/images/Crab61.jpg*www.arealiensreal.info/images/autopsy2.jpg*i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/SkaterPunker666/hitler2.jpg*tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:OVq4cMXYf2o6mM:*anotherotherkin.tripod.com/UFO/graphix/grey1.jpg*www.ufoconspiracy.com/images/gray_alien_50yrs_of_denial_photo1.jpg*www.alienvideo.net/0702/img/06-11/alien-interview-gray.jpg

A

*s3.amazonaws.com/mmc-digi-beta-production/assets/4455/mmw_Sheffield_UFO_062008_article.gif*spacejay.com/Evidence/Ufo-Fotos/ufo-195.jpg*thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/ufo/RFZ_unk.jpg*xenophilius.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/nazi25jsaucer.jpg*4.bp.blogspot.com/_3y3MF-4HXAM/R6fuyqW0ufI/AAAAAAAADGY/iA8XYa042gE/s400/hitlerUFO.jpg*2.bp.blogspot.com/_DEJXXhgmoLk/Rujyf4Lcg4I/AAAAAAAAACs/HFm0L4Of-Bg/s320/Nazi_Ufo.jpg

^^ Copy pasting images from net doesnt prove anything..Share ur views ...

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esumitkumar said:
^^ Copy pasting images from net doesnt prove anything..

that doesn't make any sense

A

*www.geocities.com/nephilimnot/nazibell.jpg*www.scene.org/%7Eesa/search/frank.germano.com/2006_03_10/images/nazi25dsaucer.jpg*thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/ufo/VRIL6.jpg*www.puppstheories.com/forum/images/Vril25g.jpg*www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Nazi/H2_1_-720x444.jpg*3.bp.blogspot.com/_-Vn3bmckwb8/RcipF8JpaBI/AAAAAAAAAUw/08yVczt3lQ8/s400/German-Vril12.jpg

A

*definereality.com/sys/images/uploads/42927OrionConspiracy.gif*ak.static.dailymotion.com/dyn/preview/320x240/9843709.jpg*www.zeigermann.com/cartoonist/images/2008/06/18/orion.jpg*media.yabla.com/media/775/thumb.jpg*media.caballe.cat/2008/06/giant.jpg*www.theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/12_B_2_MHD/catalog/12_01.jpg*www.crystalinks.com/pyrorion.jpg*slavs.org.ua/img/video/code.orion/04.jpg*inoe.name/uploads/posts/2008-10/1223134514_orion1.jpg*s3.amazonaws.com/vodpod.com.videos.thumbnail/1063973.medium160.jpg

A

aliens exist long before humans were here on earth we are not the first civilization to be here on earth and we are not the most technically advanced civilization either
some aliens are seen as god and angels and some are seen as demons all that mythical stuff in history can be scientifically proven

A

*theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/03_GIANTS/catalog/thumbs/03_05.jpg*www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/tqahhhaj.jpeg

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Anorion said:
well there is some line in Contact (the book and the movie) which goes something like the universe is a waste of space without ETI. Life cannot be a miracle that happens on earth alone... with so many stars out there, and so many planetary systems, there simply has to be life on many planets. Island societies - we probably won't meet each other mostly because they would be here if interstellar travel was possible. The distances are simply too vast. We can always hope for radio contact though - that will possibly be the only mode of communication across the vast distances. So pump in more funds into SETI.

seti is said to be a public organization but all it works only favorable to the nasa and the governments
look at nasa now they went to moon because of pressure from president john f kennedy
after that no progress is there the shuttle launches are about to be stopped by 2010 cause they are too outdated
all nasa did so far is to put up military equipment for the government
nasa ans seti cannot be trusted

The probability that aliens exist is certainly very high

A

how many of you have heard about the secret government conspiracy ???

awww said:
*i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94/SkaterPunker666/hitler2.jpg

Heil Fuhrer...lol :mrgreen:

Nazis are back from moon.

awww said:
*www.theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/12_B_2_MHD/catalog/12_01.jpg*slavs.org.ua/img/video/code.orion/04.jpg

Fist image is B2 bomber...lol
*robocat.users.btopenworld.com/Images/b2_06.jpg

2nd is a photochop

Research about the subject and then say anything. Copy-pasta is lame.

Btw tell me your age.

A

ichi said:
Fist image is B2 bomber...lol

2nd is a photochop

Research about the subject and then say anything. Copy-pasta is lame.

Btw tell me your age.

yes it is a b2 bomber in case you dont know there are two b2 bombers
the one i have posted is suppose to be a nuclear powered MHD driven one
*www.theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/12_B_2_MHD/catalog/12_03.jpg
*www.theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/12_B_2_MHD/catalog/12_04.jpg
*www.projectavalon.org/forum/showthread.php?p=111441
the moon picture could be fake but a lot of anomaly has been observed in moon i can direct you to some link if you are interested

these are called the fast walkers
*www.theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/13_SECRET_PROTOTYPES/catalog/13_06.jpg
they can travel at least at mach 10
some of the pictures i posted are true you can verify and read more if you know where to look
i thought that no one will listen to my ranting here on this forum
if you want me to continue i can show you some more interesting stuff 8)
BTW im 26 old enough i think

^most of the pics u posted are well know hoaxs

A

zyberboy said:
^most of the pics u posted are well know hoaxs

tell me which one i will explain it to you

A

*4.bp.blogspot.com/_YTJBDUN8iSE/Ryrt7q-VTtI/AAAAAAAAAXU/2XhEDMnFnIg/s400/ubaid-reptilian.jpg

this one is a real Egyptian artifact look at the lizard like snout
it is known as pindar to david icke pindar is aslo known as a greek poet

*www.texemarrs.com/images/Lizard2.gif
another reptilian looking figure

these two are real artifacts

*bkondepudi.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/aeroplane1.jpg

ancient art describing a man flying inside a sphere like structure

*www.alienshift.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/EgyptAliens.jpg
hieroglyphs from Egypt
*www.crystalinks.com/sumerartgray.jpg
more artifact looking like Grey aliens

*ufos.homestead.com/quet21.jpg
this is a Mayan representation of a tall reptilian looking person

*www.freedomdomain.com/UFO/ufo_Family_Photo494T.jpg

these are real skulls some of them are known have the spinal junction to the middle
unless like us where it is placed a little bit back to the lower skull region
the brain capacity is also said to be more when compared to human skulls

A

*www.cropcircleconnector.com/images/Crab61.jpg

this one is real
the disc inside said to be in binary form it contains info about the dna and other things like language
math can be universally applied throughout the universe
it is similar to what we sent out in a probe with our dna form and language form
it is said to be a reply

*spacejay.com/Evidence/Ufo-Fotos/ufo-195.jpg

these are known as hanebu crafts supposedly developed by the Nazis
now remember the Nazis traveled all over the world like Tibet,Egypt,both the poles in search of the ancient artifacts
they are also the first to have the rocket technology and a lot of secret research were going on when the allied forces captured Germany they also took possession of the many secret technologies and the Nazi scientists were recruited into NASA and CIA

*www.igorwitkowski.com/igor1low.jpg
like these in Germany which are said to be the test bed for the UFOs these structures also have dedicated power line for them
*www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/04images/Nazi/H2_1_-720x444.jpg
*3.bp.blogspot.com/_-Vn3bmckwb8/RcipF8JpaBI/AAAAAAAAAUw/08yVczt3lQ8/s400/German-Vril12.jpg

more crafts with nazi symbols

A

*ak.static.dailymotion.com/dyn/preview/320x240/9843709.jpg

this is a MHD generator

*media.caballe.cat/2008/06/giant.jpg
*theorionconspiracy.com/media/images/projects/03_GIANTS/catalog/thumbs/03_05.jpg
giant human remains are found all over the world
*img280.imageshack.us/img280/994/giant3xa1.jpg
*www.rationalistinternational.net/article/images/skeleton.jpg
*i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/taboocentral/NephilimCouple-2.jpg
some of the reported skeletons are about 15 feet tall
*www.planetxvideo.com/images/giants.jpg

there also some giant human remains found on the beach after the 2004 tsunami along with some undiscovered fish types

there are also mentions of giant humans in the bible as Nephilim
David and Goliath story also have mentions about gaint humans those days
you have to remember that they wouldn't be able to walk and move like as if they were here due to the gravity
you should also remember that lot of the prehistoric animals are huge like huge dragon fly and crocks and sharks like megalodon
there must be something different about the gravity in the ancient times

A

if you want me to continue by posting any article i will continue
or i will stop with this i don't like talking alone...

Good pictures awww.Thanks for sharing.

A

gaurav_indian said:
Good pictures awww.Thanks for sharing.

Well then tell me why such discoveries are not made public, I mean they are awesome so why don't show them on main media ?

Its easier to fool people with photoshop. Many of them are proved to be urban legends and baseless.

I Nazis had that much power then they would have never gone defeated.

The MHD B2 bomber you have shown is a pathetic attempt at photoshop.

Look I can only believe in these stuff if there is credible evidence and proof, or else its just a way of people earning quick bucks.

Come on, Aliens are not pussies.

Here is the link to Giant Human Skeleton hoax.

"Giant Skeletons" Fuel Web Hoax

*news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/photogalleries/giantskeleton-pictures/index.html

@awww

AS i said before most of the pictures u posted are all well known hoaxs, there is nothing in it.

Gaint human skull u posted
*www.snopes.com/photos/odd/giantman.asp

tsunami mermaid creature u were talking abt
*www.snopes.com/photos/tsunami/mermaid.asp

The list is endless....

Here is the site from which the raw images are taken for photoshop
*www.worth1000.com/emailthis.asp?image=18978

A

ichi said:
Well then tell me why such discoveries are not made public, I mean they are awesome so why don't show them on main media ?

cause main stream media is fully controlled

Its easier to fool people with photoshop. Many of them are proved to be urban legends and baseless.

there are a lot of hoaxes put out by the government agents themselves to confuse and preventing many people from getting to the truth

I Nazis had that much power then they would have never gone defeated.

most of them are in developmental stage
the nazis themselves are funded by the bush family during the ww2
vatican and switserland also have involvement with the nazis so they are not invaded
most of the nazi scientists are transferred to the usa after the war you can find this info if you look for "project paper clip"

The MHD B2 bomber you have shown is a pathetic attempt at photoshop.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHD_generator
*www-htgl.stanford.edu/PIG/C4_S9.pdf
*www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/357424/magnetohydrodynamic-power-generator
you can find even more articles if you search

Look I can only believe in these stuff if there is credible evidence and proof, or else its just a way of people earning quick bucks.

Come on, Aliens are not pussies.

i understand i will try to show you more evidence

A

ichi said:
Here is the link to Giant Human Skeleton hoax.

"Giant Skeletons" Fuel Web Hoax

*news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/photogalleries/giantskeleton-pictures/index.html

yes that one is known as fake thats why i didnt post it here

zyberboy said:
tsunami mermaid creature u were talking abt
*www.snopes.com/photos/tsunami/mermaid.asp
The list is endless....

no im not talking about the mermaid there were some giant human skeletons washed up by the waves...

A

tell me about what you guys think about UFOs that should give me some rough idea as where to start

Many ppl talk abt time travel and believe that the future exists. But don't u think if there really was a future and if ppl had indeed invented time travel, wudn't they have come in the present to meet us? Wat I'm trying to say is that either the future doesn't exist without a present or time travel can never be invented.

i do believe that they(aliens) do really exist even if they are not coming to us and can be in the lower life forms
nearest star to of sun is the Proxima Centauri which is nearly 4.2 light years and has super massive terrestrial planets.

and if anyone dont beleive me then they can check concept of worm hole
In physics, a wormhole is a topological feature of space time that is fundamentally a 'shortcut' through space and time
and if one travels at a velocity of light then he won't age at all and this has been proved thought Einstein's famous "twin paradox"

A

jxcess3891 said:
Many ppl talk abt time travel and believe that the future exists. But don't u think if there really was a future and if ppl had indeed invented time travel, wudn't they have come in the present to meet us? Wat I'm trying to say is that either the future doesn't exist without a present or time travel can never be invented.

im not a physicist but if you look at all the older civilization they all say that time goes around in cycles instead of a straight line
didn't the science say that time is the 4th dimension and they also say there are more as 11 dimensions what if we can find a way to tap into all those dimensions
does that mean we has beat the time?
there are lot more possibilities even in our current state of scientific development...

A

rohitshubham said:
i do believe that they(aliens) do really exist even if they are not coming to us and can be in the lower life forms
nearest star to of sun is the Proxima Centauri which is nearly 4.2 light years and has super massive terrestrial planets.

and if anyone dont beleive me then they can check concept of worm hole
In physics, a wormhole is a topological feature of space time that is fundamentally a 'shortcut' through space and time
and if one travels at a velocity of light then he won't age at all and this has been proved thought Einstein's famous "twin paradox"

worm hole is possible but not all aliens are suppose to be a time traveler
look at the string theory multiple universe is the reality there are some research going on in the poles as "AMANDA" abbreviation for "Antarctic Muon and Neutrino Detector Array" now they suspect that muon particles are from the other dimensions
and the other dimensions do affect our reality maybe one day we can travel through different dimensions who knows...

sometimes i think the US hav indeed captured aliens and hav them in there country.

comp@ddict said:
sometimes i think the US hav indeed captured aliens and hav them in there country.

And sometimes I feel n00bs are actually aliens from other planets sent to Earth..... :lol:

^LOL

And sometimes I feel n00bs are actually aliens from other planets sent to Earth.....

*&^%$#

R

Good Debate....

A

more good news.... :mrgreen:

200,000 Year Old Statue Found On Moon

*img14.imageshack.us/img14/9238/moonstatue.jpg*img17.imageshack.us/img17/6094/cris4.jpg*img17.imageshack.us/img17/8471/3picsp.jpg

WASHINGTON, DC - A noted scientist has just produced proof that the lunar surface was inhabited by intelligent life: a 10-inch angel sculpture embedded in a moon rock Geologist Dr. Morris Charles revealed last week that NASA lab workers chipped the angel from one of the rocks brought to Earth by Apollo 11 astronauts 40 years ago, in 1969. Dr. Charles was a NASA scientist himself for 23 years but left the agency in 1987. He still maintains close ties to many of his former colleagues. “The implications of this figurine are absolutely mind-boggling,” Dr. Charles told reporters. “It means that at one time the moon had an atmosphere conducive to life. And what’s more, it was once home to a sophisticated race of people with a highly refined sense of beauty.”
The angel - a humanoid female with wing-like appendages on her back and long flowing hair - is made of an iron compound found exclusively in the highlands of the moon.
This rules out the possibility that it was dropped by a race of aliens from another planet. It’s been hand polished to a silvery metallic sheen. Based on chemical analysis of the metal, geologists estimate the sculpture to be 200,000 years old which means it was made 170,000 years before the human species appeared on Earth.
It’s been examined by art experts who concur with Dr. Charles’ appraisal of the culture that produced it. “Clearly these beings had a sense of religion that parallels our Christianity. Perhaps they had a Jesus of their own, proving that the important spiritual principles are, in a very literal sense, universal,” said a Washington anthropologist.
Others are not so sure of its religious significance. Dr. Miles Fredericks of New York University countered, “This is just more Christian propaganda. The Sumerians told stories of the Annunaki, winged deities, as far back as 18th century BC. Maybe the Sumerians were visited by these moon beings, who merely modeled the statue after their own image.”
While many ponder the significance of the figure, others are curious about why it has remained a secret for so long. “The artifact has been common knowledge among NASA insiders for years,” said Dr. Charles. “But space agency higher-ups have kept the information highly classified, fearing world-wide panic. It was smuggled out to me by persons who must, for obvious reasons, remain anonymous.”
NASA officially denies Dr. Charles’ allegations. The statue was displayed to photographers and newsmen but is now being held for further study at an undisclosed location.
Astronauts of Antiquity - Zecharia Sitchin has already shown in The Twelfth Planet that the statues of gods and goddesses from Sumer present special helmets with protuberances on both sides (the Middle Ages’s illiteracy turned them into”devil horns”), which perfectly look like the pilots’ headphones; the statues were provided with the SHU.GAR.RA - a term that literally means”that which makes you go far into the Universe”.
Another image discovered in North Israel, dating back to the ninth millennium B.C., represents the sculpted head of a god with a helmet and safety glasses. Also a picture of the goddess Ishtar from her temple in Sumer…
All this suggests to us that the attire …was that of an aeronaut or an astronaut”…
Many drawings on the Sumerian plates show the gods with wings, which were not belonging to the body, but they were accessories of the flight suit, therfore the gods looked like eagles…
This drawing on a Sumerian plate suggests that an Anunnaki / Elohim spaceship is connected to the base on Earth.”The central object … it is more mechanical, more manufactured than natural.Its (( wings )) looks almost exactly like the solar panels which American spacecraft are provided to convert the Sun’s energy to electricity. The two antennas cannot be mistaken. The circular craft … is located between Mars (the six - pointed star) and Earth and its Moon”(Z. Sitchin, The Twelfth Planet)…
cool

source-->*thecrit.com/2009/05/05/200000-year-old-statue-found-on-moon/

^Daraa kyun raha hai :shivering:

ico said:
And sometimes I feel n00bs are actually aliens from other planets sent to Earth.....

Well i do beleive in aliens becauz i have seen in discovery channel so many plantets & they say we have not just 9 planets but millions of it with so many galaxies there has to be so many aliens or may be jurt like us ppls in this galaxy its just that NASA needs to make something which can easily travel distance lights per year so we can easily find them

awww said:
worm hole is possible but not all aliens are suppose to be a time traveler
look at the string theory multiple universe is the reality there are some research going on in the poles as "AMANDA" abbreviation for "Antarctic Muon and Neutrino Detector Array" now they suspect that muon particles are from the other dimensions
and the other dimensions do affect our reality maybe one day we can travel through different dimensions who knows...

Actually String Theory Of Multiple Universe Explains The Various Possibilities Of Time travel and helps in better understanding of "what could have happened if..."

*xfacts.com/
for a clear picture!

Aliens are there...they created the human beings..and they're coming..most probably in 2012!

C

i have a question to ask:
How many Indians know WHAT IS AN UFO?

Ahha...here comes the super noob who thinks he knows everything....what the fcuk do u mean how many "INDIANS" know abt UFO...

and i guess its A ufo not AN ufo...

L

I do obviously believe in their existence. But sort of weird that there hasn't been anything much happening in our country when it comes to UFO. There are lots and lots of stuff that science hasn't answer and i doubt if it will so yes mystery abounds even i am a mystery to myself sometimes lol

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Well, i dunno about UFO's but time travel is possible...if some one goes faster than light an many other things .....there was a detailed Programme in Descovery channel about this...too complex to mention here....

C

Well UFO and aliens are totally different things!!!!!!!!!! i mean if you look at facts UFO is just crap!!!! and as for aliens of course they exist there is no question about it!!! the question is do they contact us??? according to me answer is NO! and time travel................in theory it is possible but again you have to face the Grandfather paradox and all that!!! if you want to imagine those things then just read some quality sci-fi by asimov and one Timeline by Micheal Crichton!!!

D

I believe they exist,the government has found lot of evidence about and have huge ifo about them in their database,but they are hiding from us......U.S government not Indian LOL

Yes they exist ...........I am an Alien but dont tell anyone ...........

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

cyborg47 said:
and i guess its A ufo not AN ufo...

Its an UFO (a,e,i,o,u ---vowels remember)

chard116 said:
i have a question to ask:
How many Indians know WHAT IS AN UFO?

HEY, the no of people that know about UFO's does not change the fact that they do exist.....moreover how many people know the einsteins special theory of relativity??? i bet that their percentage is much lower than than the people who know about ufo's

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

captainapoorv said:
Well UFO and aliens are totally different things!!!!!!!!!! i mean if you look at facts UFO is just crap!!!! and as for aliens of course they exist there is no question about it!!! the question is do they contact us??? according to me answer is NO! and time travel................in theory it is possible but again you have to face the Grandfather paradox and all that!!! if you want to imagine those things then just read some quality sci-fi by asimov and one Timeline by Micheal Crichton!!!

by the way it's grandmother Paradox :-D

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 AM ----------

adding to the fact that. many people believe that we must travel faster than light to become a time traveller. but its a general misconception ...scientifically it has been proven that
1)moving bodies with all frame age slowly
2)till date it is considered that traveling faster than light(ultimate speed)is not possible.
but as the bodies moves (all frame) the body will age slowly......its like that

so ,even if we travel at the speed of 90% of light we age less but the surroundings age more. For eg we age 10 years but the surroundings age 100 years so we pratically travelled through time

Theory 1 :
Since there are many planets and galaxies in the universe and it is constantly expanding there may be chances of life on other planets also ...it is POSSIBLE even if you consider the odds i mean like out of the total planets in the universe how many would have almost the same conditions as earth we dont know yet so its really difficult to say... but chances are there that nearly every 1 in 100000 planets has conditions like temp water atmosphere as the earth.

Theory 2 :
I disagree with my friend above ^ moving faster than the speed of light could be possible... if you guys have heard about the theory of Einstein it says that " Nothing can accelerate faster than the speed of light ... " Not that anything can move faster than its Average velocity thats 3x10^8m/s

so its like it really depends on how you look at it ... of course i dont say that these are practically possible with the use of current technology but then again one could not have asssumed 640K was enough for anyone 10 years ago ?

---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------

Now theory 3 : time travel could be possible if you could move faster than the speed of light and build enough momentum to travel into the other dimension ...

obviously this is all in theory you cannot possibly travel back in time and kill ur father and cease to exist in the present / future... it does not work that way... its not like in the movies time travel in reality is a totally different concept where you go back in time where the time being talked about is relative to something else ...exaple a same person on earth has supposed spent 10 hours you would have spent 5 ....thats how it works...

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

Theory 4 :
Many archeological finds have found relation to some really old civilizations probably when the first human tribe left africa and went to other places ....

They point towards evidence of experience or depictions of the people of something " not normal " as in it cannot be exactly classified as something to do with aliens but it points out to something unusual which has never been noticed before.. these also add a element of mystery to the whole UFO / Alien controversy..

another problem is that since these findings are of really old periods they cannot be commented upon surely ...

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

UFO sightings which are at present i.e. stock footage is not enough to rule out the presence of UFO's moreover there is no scientific way except for looking at them to prove that UFO's really exist...

i mean its like saying ...you can see something but you cant define it ... hows that possible ? moreover you cant conduct any scientific experiments on it.... it's like asking someone whos blind folded to tell the difference between clean and dirty water without drinking it ..

NoasArcAngel said:
theory of Einstein it says that " Nothing can accelerate faster than the speed of light ... " Not that anything can move faster than its Average velocity thats 3x10^8m/s

Sorry to disagree ,but theory of relativity states that nothing can have a velocity greater than that of light ,not excatly acceleration.When a particle travels with a velocity equal to that of light its mass becomes infinity,means the particle cannot be accelerated anymore.

Anyway i think there is a high chance for the existence of aliens.Don't know about time travel, but i guess it's possible to slowdown time by some means or the other.

Dude...... The theory of relativity is divided in 2 parts :

1. special theory of relativity
2. general theory of relativity...

now under the STOL a particle moving at a slower speed than that of light with non-zero rest mass needs infinite amount of energy to move at speed of light ..

so it necessarily does not rule out the possibility of travelling faster than the speed of light ...at a give point in time....

now as you would know in the STOL the value of c is a constant which is

299,792,458 m/s but in actual the speed of light is not a constant... it has many dimensions hence..einstien had taken it to be that much with regard to the refractive index of vaccum ... but in actual physics the speed of light is not definable ...

so you could possibly surpass that value ... and also infinity is something you don't know i don't know ... hence i can always surpass infinity.... you give a value of infinity x and i can always find a value infinity y which is 2 times your infinity...

also if you could get your hands on scientific journals... they are conducting experiments where things are actually moving faster than light.... not accelerating faster than light

Nanospheres moving faster than light? | ZDNet

hmm...,may be you are right.

if i am sure i read somewhere.

in modern countries if they see something new or unusual = Aliesn
in not so good developed countries = ghosts

R

There is no such thing as an absolute (completely stationary) frame of reference. The laws of physics apply equally to all frames of reference. The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference. There is no simultaneity of events between separate frames of reference. You are never too old to learn. As you pursue a better understanding of SR, Do Not fall prey to these errant statements: Time slows as speed increases. (Only when viewed by another frame of reference) Objects shorten as speed increases. (Same as above) SR can't handle acceleration. (Biggest misconception about SR) Mass increases with speed. (Energy increases, not the rest mass) Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Crossing the speed of light barrier from either a faster or a slower speed is

I have a doubt. Whenever v read in news papers or any other source, why its always Aliens/UFO can be seen only in America. Y dont they come to India.

raman0890 said:
There is no such thing as an absolute (completely stationary) frame of reference. The laws of physics apply equally to all frames of reference. The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference. There is no simultaneity of events between separate frames of reference. You are never too old to learn. As you pursue a better understanding of SR, Do Not fall prey to these errant statements: Time slows as speed increases. (Only when viewed by another frame of reference) Objects shorten as speed increases. (Same as above) SR can't handle acceleration. (Biggest misconception about SR) Mass increases with speed. (Energy increases, not the rest mass) Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Crossing the speed of light barrier from either a faster or a slower speed is

Bravo...! Well said.

IronCruz said:
I have a doubt. Whenever v read in news papers or any other source, why its always Aliens/UFO can be seen only in America. Y dont they come to India.

May be no place to land their Space ships here..... Or they like 'Hot Dogs'

furious_gamer said:
May be no place to land their Space ships here..... Or they like 'Hot Dogs'

or maybe "indians" dont know what they are watching in the sky.
take our genial village idiot chewing paan.
do you think he wonders what is that light flying so fast in the sky? he'll just think its an aircraft. and even if he has some sort of "encounter" do you think he will tell anyone? he'll just keep quiet else ppl will think he is crazy or whatever.

maybe they target developed countries coz they know they are the sources of resistance/danger zone/place which might be a problem to them.

W

I think that UFOs and aliens are real. Just look at all of the UFO videos out there. I mean how much more proof do you need?

actually, a lot more proof than that is needed.
such videos can be created easily using the tools available today.

what we need is solid, unshakeable physical evidence, like ufo parts/alien bodies/representatives etc...

just a bunch of videos and pics are not gonna be enough proof for many unbelieving fools out there

doomgiver said:
or maybe "indians" dont know what they are watching in the sky.
take our genial village idiot chewing paan.
do you think he wonders what is that light flying so fast in the sky? he'll just think its an aircraft. and even if he has some sort of "encounter" do you think he will tell anyone? he'll just keep quiet else ppl will think he is crazy or whatever.

maybe they target developed countries coz they know they are the sources of resistance/danger zone/place which might be a problem to them.

or a more possible thing is: developed countries with a bigger army & technologically superior are investing in many UAVs & stealth aircrafts. these maybe just some prototypes.

i am not saying no UFO, no alien. there exist a billion galaxies with a billion stars in each one. nobody knows what we can find in these stars/planets & if we do find life (any some type) what is their technological reach. or maybe they are in themselves capable of making time travel or long distant journey (across billions of light yrs) without the need of any spacecraft. possible.

there maybe some that can do timetravel by themselves. some needs some craft to cover long distant journeys & some may still be in a undeveloped form (single cellular bodies).

Anybody here has read Stephen Hawking's "A brief history of time" ? It poses as well as answers some very interesting questions.

Here is what I think:

There is high probability of extra-terrestrial life as the universe is symmetrical as a whole. However, the probability of intelligent life is pretty low. Even if intelligent beings exist, they're millions of light years away from us (far from the range of Hubble space telescope & other such long range devices). So unless they have discovered some way to travel through space-time fibre, it'll take very-very long time for them to reach earth (the special theory of relativity rules out velocity greater than velocity of light). I also believe that if humans could not find a way to travel in space-time, no other being can. So those UFO sightings are not alien ships, whatever else they may be.

About time-travel, the only way to do this is by creating a high gravity object (like black holes) which changes the curvature of space-time. As many of you may be aware, the two factors which affect the curvature of space-time are velocity & gravity. The special theory puts a limit on velocity so we're left only with gravity for time-travel.

Again, the question is: If time travel will be possible in future, why don't we see people coming from future back to our time ?

Sam.Shab said:
or a more possible thing is: developed countries with a bigger army & technologically superior are investing in many UAVs & stealth aircrafts. these maybe just some prototypes.

very true. modern stealth aircraft appear as blurs and 'anomalies' on the radar sets.
but look at the roswell crash.
the material in the construction "could not be creased in any way. if folded, it would return to its original shape"(sic). i'd like to see more such materials

Sam.Shab said:
i am not saying no UFO, no alien. there exist a billion galaxies with a billion stars in each one. nobody knows what we can find in these stars/planets & if we do find life (any some type) what is their technological reach. or maybe they are in themselves capable of making time travel or long distant journey (across billions of light yrs) without the need of any spacecraft. possible.

there maybe some that can do timetravel by themselves. some needs some craft to cover long distant journeys & some may still be in a undeveloped form (single cellular bodies

well, we dont even know if the life forms will be carbon based or not... look at the bacteria found recently in some desert.... they have arsenic instead of phosphorus in their dna bases... who knows what other life will look like.

also, there's roughly 200 billion stars in a galaxy the size of ours. and there's a estimated 300 billion galaxies in the observable universe.

pauldmps said:
Anybody here has read Stephen Hawking's "A brief history of time" ? It poses as well as answers some very interesting questions.

dude, hats off to you if you managed to understand it in one go!!! it took me a week and 4 readings to figure it all out.

pauldmps said:
There is high probability of extra-terrestrial life as the universe is symmetrical as a whole. However, the probability of intelligent life is pretty low. Even if intelligent beings exist, they're millions of light years away from us (far from the range of Hubble space telescope & other such long range devices). So unless they have discovered some way to travel through space-time fibre, it'll take very-very long time for them to reach earth (the special theory of relativity rules out velocity greater than velocity of light). I also believe that if humans could not find a way to travel in space-time, no other being can. So those UFO sightings are not alien ships, whatever else they may be.

what if they dont want to contact us, for the fear of disturbing our natural evolution, like star trek's prime directive?
what if they are also looking for life, aka, SETI, but are using some other tech we are not aware of?
what if they have found our transmissions and are in the process of decrypting and understanding it? what if it takes several decades/centuries for the return signal to reach us?

pauldmps said:
About time-travel, the only way to do this is by creating a high gravity object (like black holes) which changes the curvature of space-time. As many of you may be aware, the two factors which affect the curvature of space-time are velocity & gravity. The special theory puts a limit on velocity so we're left only with gravity for time-travel.

damn, didnt know time travel was possible via 'velocity'..... plz explain?

pauldmps said:
Again, the question is: If time travel will be possible in future, why don't we see people coming from future back to our time ?

hehe, if i was from the future, i'd make a killing on the stock markets and hide my identity for the fear of prosecution, lol. guess whos making a lot of money on the stock market right now.

good to see that finally this thread is receiving the brain-juice it so deserves.
keep it going.

tl;dr - you need to read the whole thing to understand it, sorry

^^
I did understand about half of what he has written (you need an active imagination for that)
If you figured out the whole text in 4 readings, than you've done a commendable job.

Now coming back to your question. As your velocity increases, the watch on your hand slows down with respect to a watch which is at rest. When you reach the speed of light, the watch stops & time stops (including your age). So say that you're travelling at a speed of light in a device. The time for the world passes by as usual. Say you come out of the device after 4 years w.r.t objects at rest. Since time had stopped for you (& your age too), you'll find that the world has fast-forwaded to 4 years.

The following equation describes the variation of time w.r.t velocity. Gamma is the Lorentz factor.

time on earth = gamma x time on your watch when your velocity is v.

*upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/e/1/fe1f9915b0a030c391a76635634cfcfe.png

When your velocity is very small, v^2 is negligible in comparison to c^2 (c is speed of light).
Hence, (1 -v^2/c^2) is almost equal to 1. So the time on your watch coincides with the watch on rest.

As your velocity becomes comparable to "c", the expression (1 - v^2/c^2) is much lesser than 1. Hence the time slows down.

Now work out what happens when v^2 = c^2 yourself.

pauldmps said:
Again, the question is: If time travel will be possible in future, why don't we see people coming from future back to our time ?

Because future is DEAD !

A

pauldmps said:
Again, the question is: If time travel will be possible in future, why don't we see people coming from future back to our time ?

Well... The thing you claim to be a UFO might be a TIME MACHINE travelling in past. NO ?
Think, why cant any radar system, Satellite or telescope detect the UFO when it is approaching the Earth ? How does it come from clouds and again vanishes in clouds ? Why dont Aliens wear a Space suit, because I think they need one to survive on earth. Why do they have a posture very similar to humans ? Why do they have hands, legs, head, eyes and all other organs same like Humans ? Why dont they have any other body shape like a tapeworm... or an octopus... or an Amoeba ??? Why ?
and that is not all I want to say, just lazy on keyboard. there area tons of point to think on.... :wink:

take your time.

N

@OP
Yes, its possible. have seen it in many movies

Assassin said:
Well... The thing you claim to be a UFO might be a TIME MACHINE travelling in past. NO ?
Think, why cant any radar system, Satellite or telescope detect the UFO when it is approaching the Earth ? How does it come from clouds and again vanishes in clouds ? Why dont Aliens wear a Space suit, because I think they need one to survive on earth. Why do they have a posture very similar to humans ? Why do they have hands, legs, head, eyes and all other organs same like Humans ? Why dont they have any other body shape like a tapeworm... or an octopus... or an Amoeba ??? Why ?
and that is not all I want to say, just lazy on keyboard. there area tons of point to think on.... take your time.

the radar cannot detect a b-2 flying wing bomber too, does that make it an ufo?

you have a better chance of catching a white rabbit in snow than of catching a ufo on telescope

come and vanish into a cloud? wtf?

umm, have you actually seen one with/without a space suit?

why does a dolphin, a shark and a goldfish have a fin on thier back? convergent evolution, similar postures/appendages for similar jobs.

im lazy too, so do use google a lot

what kind of speedometers would time machines have?

uhhh, grandfather clocks?

well, i read in this really good sf novel that time machines would need to "ground" the excess "temporal charge", like grounding the electric potential in modern appliances.

sounded reasonable

Anorion said:
what kind of speedometers would time machines have?

1 year per second.

Well, after seeing in Disovery i learnt only future travel is possible

^^ If you think, we as a normal human being, are all Time-Travelers, and traveling in time, with the rate of 1 sec per sec.

lol

But, seriously, I won't call time traveling "just" in future, a Time Travel. Since, it can also be achieved, say by Freezing (hibernating) someone, and just wake him/her after 100 years!

Of course, they exist. Even NASA says so, they even might be on earth but the government may have been hiding it (Roswell UFO Incident).

Time travel is theoretically possible. Practically, we will have to wait.

time travel is a mind bending subject. there was a star trek novel which had a very nice spin on it. i'll post a link if i find it.

time should not be meddled with!!!!

mavihs said:
time should not be meddled with!!!!

That's the teaching most of the Time Travel movies quotes in the end.
But still, everyone, wants to do it at least once.

ico said:
1 year per second.

That's technically incorrect.

Its very unlikely that an superintelligent alien species made it though galaxies and finally reached the most harmless planets of all (no methane, volcanos, hydrogen etc) and crash landed and died here.

Ofcourse if you are talking about the microbes on alien rocks (read asteroids) then yes maybe.

Neuron said:
That's technically incorrect.

he was referring to the units on the speedo or chrono

Sarath said:
Its very unlikely that an superintelligent alien species made it though galaxies and finally reached the most harmless planets of all (no methane, volcanos, hydrogen etc) and crash landed and died here.

Ofcourse if you are talking about the microbes on alien rocks (read asteroids) then yes maybe.

earth is far from harmless, but yeah, it is one of the milder planets. now take mars, it is one of the few harmless planets in our solar system.

this might have happened :
ship has some trouble, head for the nearest hablitable/hospitable planet, trouble gets worse, ship out of control, crashland ship.

doomgiver said:
he was referring to the units on the speedo or chrono

Yes.But '1 year per second' is not a unit.However 'year per second' is. :smile:

Neuron said:
Yes.But '1 year per second' is not a unit.However 'year per second' is.

Well, you actually said the same thing!
Really, "1 year per second" and "year per second" BOTH are the same!
And both are wrong... :lol:

What ico may have meant, would be "ability to travel 1 light-year in 1 sec", where light-year is a unit of Distance (not time), and which means, "The distance which light travels in one year"!! :))

vineet369 said:
Well, you actually said the same thing!
Really, "1 year per second" and "year per second" BOTH are the same!
And both are wrong...

What ico may have meant, would be "ability to travel 1 light-year in 1 sec", where light-year is a unit of Distance (not time), and which means, "The distance which light travels in one year"!!

It is theoritically impossible to move faster than the speed of light. Einstein just died another death in heaven.

Earth is by far the most harmless planet ever discovered for two reasons:
1. Easy to find. Just look down. There you have it budding astro gazer, you just discovered a planet.

2. The next closest one is far far away infact so far away that its taking decades just to discover it, many years after that to validate it and even after all that going there would kill us. But aliens can maybe which is a good/bad thing.

Sarath said:
It is theoritically impossible to move faster than the speed of light. Einstein just died another death in heaven.

Thanks for giving us the news of another death of Einstein in heaven pal, but I never meant to disagree upon someone's theory. I was just clarifying something which another member meant, which is the ability to move faster than light, without which we can never reach anywhere close to other galaxies, atleast in an average lifetime of a human!
And also, which is also the required condition for Time Travel.

Sarath said:
Earth is by far the most harmless planet ever discovered for two reasons:
1. Easy to find. Just look down. There you have it budding astro gazer, you just discovered a planet.

2. The next closest one is far far away infact so far away that its taking decades just to discover it, many years after that to validate it and even after all that going there would kill us. But aliens can maybe which is a good/bad thing.

wrong.
its harmless for us. who knows, a methane breather will find it very dangerous.
mars is less dangerous, as it does not have dangerous surface phenomena like cyclones, floods, volcanoes, etc.

I knew I dont mean human friendly. Methane breathers maybe but mars seriously. The dust storms as tall as mount olympus. And that freaking mountain is like many times bigger than the baby mount everest. And how big is the wind storm...well it cover,,,,,,,the entire planet. The ENTIRE planet. Its pretty harsh out there.

Thanks to my spamming of Discovery and Nat Geo :-D

Why I say earth is safer unrelated to us is:
1. Atmosphere. Slows down the entering projectile.
2. Most surface occupied by ocean water a very neutral substance.
3. Atmosphere again contains mostly neutral Nitrogen. (I hope they have space suits though)
4. Humans. Most likely will kill the aliens but never take the first step as curiosity comes first and aggresion later.
5. Protection from solar wind (which is pretty bad ass if you dig deeper)
6. A surface temperature which is ideal for most organisms hopefully aliens but can be sure. Should try the antarctic and mount fuji for holidays, aliens.

Also my friend every planet has varied forms of climate including our sun 11year cycle if memory serves. Jupiter is the worst I agree but relatively earth is the mildest. Plus we got resorts :-D

^yeah life is rare. in fact, some astronomers calculated that it was so rare that it could happen only once in the universe.
their conclusion is that space dust is sized the same as and made up of the same materials as bacteria. life is waiting everywhere for a comet to seed it on a planet.
proofi ?: Analysis of Interstellar Dust and Selected Resources. by Brig Klyce
theres more to this Marcus Chown's The Universe Next Door

Anorion said:
life is waiting everywhere for a comet to seed it on a planet.

This got me thinking of the Movie, "Mission to Mars" with Gary Sinise as the lead actor.

Sarath said:
The dust storms as tall as mount olympus. And that freaking mountain is like many times bigger than the baby mount everest. And how big is the wind storm...well it cover,,,,,,,the entire planet. The ENTIRE planet. Its pretty harsh out there.

Thanks to my spamming of Discovery and Nat Geo

Why I say earth is safer unrelated to us is:
1. Atmosphere. Slows down the entering projectile.
2. Most surface occupied by ocean water a very neutral substance.
3. Atmosphere again contains mostly neutral Nitrogen. (I hope they have space suits though)
4. Humans. Most likely will kill the aliens but never take the first step as curiosity comes first and aggresion later.
5. Protection from solar wind (which is pretty bad ass if you dig deeper)
6. A surface temperature which is ideal for most organisms hopefully aliens but can be sure. Should try the antarctic and mount fuji for holidays, aliens.

Also my friend every planet has varied forms of climate including our sun 11year cycle if memory serves. Jupiter is the worst I agree but relatively earth is the mildest. Plus we got resorts

its just a dust storm, with lightning and dust in your face, kinda like sub saharan harmattans. bloody irritating.
earth is among the mildest, but not the mildest. that is a big debate.

Anorion said:
^yeah life is rare. in fact, some astronomers calculated that it was so rare that it could happen only once in the universe.
their conclusion is that space dust is sized the same as and made up of the same materials as bacteria. life is waiting everywhere for a comet to seed it on a planet.
proofi ?: Analysis of Interstellar Dust and Selected Resources. by Brig Klyce
theres more to this Marcus Chown's The Universe Next Door

dude, i am willing to bet my money that there a LOT of alien life out there, and much of it will look very much like us(bipedal,distinct head,jointed appendages)

even earth rocks are made of the same materials as bacteria, you just have to jiggle a few bonds here and there, and voila!!! new life. but waht i want to say is, your basic concept ("space dust is sized the same as and made up of the same materials as bacteria") is wrong.

^^^You have to see the visual representation of the dust storm to actually realise its magnitude. Its powerful enough to rip off flesh from the very bones.

Anyways who cares. I love earth. And I do not welcome aliens here.

There is ofcourse alien life out there and the wonderful fact is the laws of evolution have been proved to be universal. Blame discovery not me if you disagree.

^^hey imma not theorising here, im pointing out that it is something that a few fringe scientists are looking into...
im not even gonna begin with the reptiles or peleidians, this is a very grounded spectrographic analysis of space dust, the same basis on which the compositions of venus or jupiter or other distant objects (Deep Space Alcohol) is theorised
yeah theres some strange stuff out there

that must have been a really huge brewery.

Sarath said:
Anyways who cares. I love earth. And I do not welcome aliens here.

That's not kind.

^^ Maybe... a shootout from Aliens to Earth, will be kind!
Alien life exist or not.. it's a fact, which even Steven Hawking has also confirmed, that there is more danger then advantage if ever an Alien life decides to visit Earth.

Earth is not alone and special there are infinte probabilities of other earth like planets so i say THEY EXIST.

And for time travel , there is no scientific concept. How could ? ?what is base of time travel discussion?
Yet it is only comical.

Kola2842 said:
And for time travel , there is no scientific concept. How could ? ?what is base of time travel discussion?
Yet it is only comical.

Wrong.

@kola2842: The point that YOU are not aware of the Concepts of the Possibility of Time Travel, doesn't mean, that it's impossible!

So anyone giving me at least one scientific clue to time travel.

If you say time travel is not possible at all, then you are standing at a point, which will take countless explanations and tutorials to bring out facts about it to you.
All the science shows and articles are exhaustive and difficult. Try wikipedia that should help you bro. They taught me about quasars and stuff which is cool.

All I can say is time moves slower for a person who moves faster. [slower and faster are comparisons and quite integral to the statement]

Practically if you keep moving very fast then one day you will find yourself to be younger than your own children or in different words you have just travelled into the future.

Anorion said:
^^hey imma not theorising here, im pointing out that it is something that a few fringe scientists are looking into...
im not even gonna begin with the reptiles or peleidians, this is a very grounded spectrographic analysis of space dust, the same basis on which the compositions of venus or jupiter or other distant objects (Deep Space Alcohol) is theorised
yeah theres some strange stuff out there

what? my english is going to the dogs. This is one reply that I am going to save for I did not understand a single line. A single sentence.

However if we start debating the various theories of the origin of life then it is beyond the scope of our knowledge to do that.
My favourite on is that we all came from soup (primordial soup)
Least fav: That comets seed planets with life. Why? Scary because if they are more intelligent then we are screwed. Badly screwed.

Also anything captured in the earths vicinity is bound to be contaminated with life. We need something akin to DNA or proteins in outer space for that seeding theory.

All we found was traces or assumptions of water.

Example of Time Travel:

1. You kiss your smoking hot girlfriend...hours will seem minutes.

2. You touch a hot object or touch a cold iron/steel object in freezing weather...seconds will seem minutes.

lol, thats not time travel, thats lorentz' equations in action!!!

MatchBoxx said:
Example of Time Travel:

1. You kiss your smoking hot girlfriend...hours will seem minutes.

2. You touch a hot object or touch a cold iron/steel object in freezing weather...seconds will seem minutes.

Nice said mate :rofl:

MatchBoxx said:
Example of Time Travel:

1. You kiss your smoking hot girlfriend...hours will seem minutes.

2. You touch a hot object or touch a cold iron/steel object in freezing weather...seconds will seem minutes.

Lorrentz equation? I thought Einstein said that!

Einstein's theory of Relativity.

no, its Lorentz equations, Einstein never said anything about time dilation/compression

trust me, i learnt this in college physics

BBC journalist narrates his encounter with UFO in England

London, August 04 (ANI): A BBC journalist has claimed that he has seen a UFO when he was just outside the Hertfordshire village of Cottered, England.

Sports reporter Mike Sewell told how he "totally freaked out" the moment he saw the disc-shaped craft zoom in front of his car as he drove across the countryside in darkness at 4.15am.

Sewell, who lives in the Midlands, was driving to Stansted Airport to catch a flight to Sweden for Champions League qualifying game between Malmo and Glasgow Rangers, when he saw a UFO with flashing lights in the road.

Sewell told how he had been driving behind a VW van when he saw the craft in the sky.

Speaking on Radio Five Live to millions of listeners, he revealed how he was left "gobsmacked" as the UFO then hovered above a field a few hundred yards from the road.

"I was driving east across country about 15 to 20 miles from Stansted Airport at 4.15 in the morning and I saw this big bright light in the sky descending towards the road and as it got closer it banked to the left," the Sun quoted him as saying.

"As it banked to the left it went cross-country, I could see underneath and it wasn't an aeroplane and it wasn't a helicopter.

"I dread saying this, disc-shaped. It had several lights flashing all around it and underneath there were at least two large panel lights, soft white lights underneath. And then it just sat or circled a certain area above a field."

"I was so gobsmacked. I was trying to keep on the road and eventually lost sight of it after two or three minutes but what I saw was not an normal aircraft. It was weird. I was totally freaked out," he added. (ANI)

Source- Yahoo

I dont know if this has been posted..But i heard U.S.A army is behind UFO'S they hide them in the so called AREA 51 Im not sure though

Can't say if it was posted or not. But this surely is a very old belief.
So old, that there have been numerous movies built around the concept too.

Can you please share what's your age? Just curious!

Vyom said:
Can't say if it was posted or not. But this surely is a very old belief.
So old, that there have been numerous movies built around the concept too.

Can you please share what's your age? Just curious!

yea, i want to know his age too. but i have a sneaky feeling its 16.

serpent16 said:
I dont know if this has been posted..But i heard U.S.A army is behind UFO'S they hide them in the so called AREA 51 Im not sure though

oh, yeah right, and those are guarded by bigfoots and yetis.

arae 51 is just a hoax created byt the us gov to take the heat off the real evidence.
if area 51 was the real deal, wouldnt the gov do something to crack down on the amounts of info available one it??? give it some thought, its easier to make a decoy get all the attention rather than the real thing.

lol, and thanks for digging up this thread,

why dont we just have a rule/script to disallow newbs from commenting on posts more than a month old??? i mean it just wont let them post in the thread.

it'll make the job of mods and everyone else much more easier.

Someone should close this thread.

Do aliens exist?
Yes.

Is time travel possible?
No.

doomgiver said:
yea, i want to know his age too. but i have a sneaky feeling its 16.

oh, yeah right, and those are guarded by bigfoots and yetis.

arae 51 is just a hoax created byt the us gov to take the heat off the real evidence.
if area 51 was the real deal, wouldnt the gov do something to crack down on the amounts of info available one it??? give it some thought, its easier to make a decoy get all the attention rather than the real thing.

lol, and thanks for digging up this thread,

why dont we just have a rule/script to disallow newbs from commenting on posts more than a month old??? i mean it just wont let them post in the thread.

it'll make the job of mods and everyone else much more easier.

Ok ok Chill

Make sure you close the windows and all before going to bed.Good night.

serpent16 said:
Ok ok Chill

you asked, i answered.
and i dont chill, i combust in a spectacular and explosive way.

I think UFOs should exist yaar...
billions of galaxies in the universe..
billions of stars in each of them..
atleast somewhere life must have to exist na?..

or maybe the UFOs are the futuristic humans travelling back to our time!!!! :shock:

doomgiver said:
why dont we just have a rule/script to disallow newbs from commenting on posts more than a month old??? i mean it just wont let them post in the thread.

it'll make the job of mods and everyone else much more easier.

Shant Gadhadhari Bheem..shant.

There shouldn't be any problem if old post is dug up.If we don't do this the forum may lose its fire and passion.And being Newbies has got nothing to do with it. In-fact idiocy isn't just restricted to newbies trust me. It very universal kid.

suddenly, a 4 month post comes back to life, scares you to death :/

freshseasons said:
Shant Gadhadhari Bheem..shant.

hehehe ;-p

What if i had seen aliens,but they erased my memory about it?

Neuron said:
What if i had seen aliens,but they erased my memory about it?

Yes, you are alien in to certain regions.

Faun said:
Yes, you are alien in to certain regions.

This statement is unfathomable. :-?

Neuron said:
What if i had seen aliens,but they erased my memory about it?

hmmmm

Rockstar11 said:
hmmmm

herp derp

Stephan Hawking Believes that the Aliens exists i too believe!!

I say Aliens exist. Maybe a trillions of light years away, but they do exist. Because of the almost infinite number of stars and galaxies and planetary systems, look at the probability of conditions similar to earth developing on another planet where life begins is good. Drake's equation explains it better. Drake equation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, probability of find them would be as slim as the probability of their existence.
Posted via Mobile Device

UFOs - any unidentified flying object is an UFO.. they definitely exist. If i decide to build a plane/ flying machine and fly around without the proper documentation, then i would be considered an UFO..

Aliens - good chance there might be life forms outside our planet.. but assuming they would be more advacned and a superior life form than us (like they show in the movies) is a little pre mature.. there very well might be aliens who are less advanced than us.
Also, if an advanced life form does exist... why is everyone under the assumption that they would come to earth to visit humans?? there are millions of species in our planet.. maybe they come to talk to the ants or the dolphins

(honestly there is lot more to learn from the other species than humans)..

Time travel - looking forward for this

patrick4 said:
Aliens - good chance there might be life forms outside our planet.. but assuming they would be more advacned and a superior life form than us (like they show in the movies) is a little pre mature.. there very well might be aliens who are less advanced than us.
Also, if an advanced life form does exist... why is everyone under the assumption that they would come to earth to visit humans?? there are millions of species in our planet.. maybe they come to talk to the ants or the dolphins (honestly there is lot more to learn from the other species than humans)..

1. if the speed of light is thet ultimate speed limit :
they will come to our planet to enslave species and use our resources (think europe vs americas/africa/asia)
free labor and raw material for them.

2. if speed of light can be broken by a large margin, like 2x-4x the speed of light, then we have a chance of finding benevolent creatures, who dont wish to harm us, but will want us to "share" our resources

3. our planet has rare valuable resources (like copper, radioactive metals, halogens, etc)
then they will plunder no matter what

^Mass Effect?Reapers?

doomgiver said:
1. if the speed of light is thet ultimate speed limit :
they will come to our planet to enslave species and use our resources (think europe vs americas/africa/asia)
free labor and raw material for them.

2. if speed of light can be broken by a large margin, like 2x-4x the speed of light, then we have a chance of finding benevolent creatures, who dont wish to harm us, but will want us to "share" our resources

3. our planet has rare valuable resources (like copper, radioactive metals, halogens, etc)
then they will plunder no matter what

1. "our resources"?? humans did the same thing when we started colonising.. the resources were freely availabe long before humans arrived.. if we could simply dictate over control of the resources, its only fair that others can do the same..

2. the speed of light theory and the e=mc2 is a concept that we know of.. there could be lots of other phenomenon that we maybe unaware of..

3. Not every one may suscribe to what we consider rare.. resources like the ones mentioned above maybe freely available in large quantites in other galaxies..

patrick4 said:
1. "our resources"?? humans did the same thing when we started colonising.. the resources were freely availabe long before humans arrived.. if we could simply dictate over control of the resources, its only fair that others can do the same..

2. the speed of light theory and the e=mc2 is a concept that we know of.. there could be lots of other phenomenon that we maybe unaware of..

3. Not every one may suscribe to what we consider rare.. resources like the ones mentioned above maybe freely available in large quantites in other galaxies..

1. you just prove my point. thanks
2. thats what i said, mate.
3. as i freaking said : rare, valuable resources.
thats why i didnt say "gold"
radioactive elements are relatively rare, and cant be recycled.
elements like iridium are rare on earth, but common as dirt in asteroids
gold is much more common and less useful than silver.

thats why, the aztecs used gold utensils, and the greedy spainards conquered them.

we might have a similar situation.

W

Loose cable snaps faster than light finding - The Times of India

till now e=mc2 holds.also i seriously doubt that anyone who can travel at speeds comparable to light & travel light years in a short span of time without breaking the light speed limit(something like wormholes etc)does not possess the technology to manipulate matter at sub-atomic levels to create any element/compound.even we can convert some elements to gold(though not cost effectively enough).from a rational point of view earth has no significance whatsoever for a very advanced civilization.or in other words the difference between us & aliens might be much larger than it was between colonial powers & colonies.

to convert energy to even 1 kg of gold, you'd have to utilize power equivalent to the entire electricity output of the world, for at least 5-7 years.

that is how inefficient it is.

even the sun "burns" up thousands of tons of hydrogen PER second to create enough enrgy to power several thousand earth-planets for centuries.

no sane civilization will do matter-energy transformation.

W

no sane civilization will do matter-energy transformation.

just because humanity does not know an efficient process does not mean such processes do not exist.btw i think you misunderstood my point.i was talking about transforming 1 element into another.Nuclear experiments have successfully transmuted lead into gold,but the expense far exceeds any gain.if some one can efficiently convert any element into any other element there will be no need to look for any material resource.

er, for any of that, there is loss of sub-atomic particles, and you need hoards of energy to break up the atom,

and for a "simple" lead to gold transformation, there are atleast 44 intermediate steps, so you'd have to be very patient to get your gold.

a cheaper alternative is find a mineral rich planet, and strip-mine it.
if it has indigenous species, all the better, coz free labor.

doomgiver said:
1. if the speed of light is thet ultimate speed limit :
they will come to our planet to enslave species and use our resources (think europe vs americas/africa/asia)
free labor and raw material for them.

2. if speed of light can be broken by a large margin, like 2x-4x the speed of light, then we have a chance of finding benevolent creatures, who dont wish to harm us, but will want us to "share" our resources

How is the "ultimate speed" related to the nature of aliens?

if you cant travel faster than light, it'll take centuries to reach other stars.
if you build a worldship, you might be short on resources after such a journey, hence you'll need food, water, etc.
now, a worldship wont be much interested in talking would it? they'd rather take all they can rather than spend tedious time arguing with us over who owns what.

think of it this way :
you are travelling to a distant city thru a desert
you are short on food, and you see a few tribal huts around an oasis with fruit trees
you know there is food and water and maybe even fuel there.
yuo approach the tribals, and they refuse to share anything, saying its theirs.
now, do you argue with them, offer some money (they are tribals, they dont understand money) or you use your trusty gun, which you took along, "just in case" to "persuade" the tribals to hand over some food, while you make them clean your dusty car?
tell me.

now, contrast this to a jet plane (a harrier, in this case)
the journey will be so fast, that you might even stop just to click photos with the tribals, and maybe trade them a sandvich or two for some juicy dates(i mean the fruit, lol)

^^ its a little difficult to follow your train of thought

but why would you assume you need some sort of vehicle to travel? maybe aliens travel by teleportation without the need for food, fuel and resources..

Okay
But To travel faster you will have to produce more energy/have more fuel
Also maybe aliens can gain energy by something which is abundantly available like light

patrick4 said:
^^ its a little difficult to follow your train of thought

but why would you assume you need some sort of vehicle to travel? maybe aliens travel by teleportation without the need for food, fuel and resources..

Niilesh said:
Okay
But To travel faster you will have to produce more energy/have more fuel
Also maybe aliens can gain energy by something which is abundantly available like light

you guys dont get it, do you?
i dont care how they travel, im more concerned about how they will interact with us, thats why i've outlined a few scenarios that can happen. this is not a discussion of how the enterprise can go faster than speed of light (the eqn is c*n^(10/3), where n is the warp factor), rather, im talking about what will happen if they arrive here

I

First of all there is no question about resources. There is plenty resource in the galaxy and asteroids for the aliens to harvest.
Here's one scenario.
If there are aliens, obviously they would have a central government of some kind like the UN or something equivalent. If they found out about Earth, first objective would obviously be recon. Then they would come to know that we are not very technologically capable as compared to them. Now why the hell would they contact us? To impart us their knowledge and hope that we would live happily ever after? Just imagine if aliens come here and contact us now. Pandemonium will break out, our way of life would be totally changed. If countries like Iraq and Afghanistan cannot allow foreign forces to occupy their land even if it is for "greater good", then how can we expect humans to live peacefully with aliens that we don't know anything about?After a few months of awe and celebration, only fear and and then anger will encapsulate earth,even if the aliens have no nefarious motives.
Now if the aliens have a government kind of thing, it would not allow the natural order of a world to change so drastically and hence would never contact earth.
So unless we ourselves don't discover intergalactic travel, they wouldn't contact us.

P.S. 1st post in digit forum after years of reading.....woo-hoo.

A

aliens might exist.

I'm replying without going through the whole thread. So i might just be trolling, I hope i will make some sense.

There are only two main reasons why aliens would try to visit our planet.
A.) Out of curiosity.
B.) For resources.

A.) I do believe that there must be a smarter race somewhere in this universe, people who would be billions if not trillions years ahead of us, at some point they might have a curiosity of exploring our universe.
The concept of light travel is what we think of when we talk about exploring universe. Maybe they have technology of making 'worm holes' through the space. Its like folding a piece of paper into half and making the ends meet, rather than starting from top and going to bottom.
If they had curiosity they might already have visited us. Or Have they? :wink:

B.) When we talk about 'Resources' we only think in terms of things we 'Humans' think are important for our survival. Maybe for the aliens, something else is important. What we haven't cared about? Like, for trees chicken burger with extra cheese makes no sense. Or does it?.

</end of trolling>

UFOs may exist since the universe is so huge. If they manage 2 reach earth then they r higly advncd dan us. Nw fr lightyear problm jst check out wormholes. Wormholes connect 2 points in space through the shortest distance in hyperspace. So 400 lightyears maybe travelld in much short time. Aliens may possess anti-matter technology whch works efficiently and cn hold wormholes open. Ths migt sound lyk sci fi bt fr al we knw they could be thousand yr ahead of us

They may not need food and conditions similar to us. For all we know they could alter their genetic composition for becoming somethng else frm carbon basd lyf forms lyk us. YIKES! Borg!

Arrow-> said:
aliens might exist.

my fish might be geniuses.

setanjan123 said:
UFOs may exist since the universe is so huge. If they manage 2 reach earth then they r higly advncd dan us. Nw fr lightyear problm jst check out wormholes. Wormholes connect 2 points in space through the shortest distance in hyperspace. So 400 lightyears maybe travelld in much short time. Aliens may possess anti-matter technology whch works efficiently and cn hold wormholes open. Ths migt sound lyk sci fi bt fr al we knw they could be thousand yr ahead of us

They may not need food and conditions similar to us. For all we know they could alter their genetic composition for becoming somethng else frm carbon basd lyf forms lyk us. YIKES! Borg!

looks like someone has been reading too much star trek here.
1. wormholes have severe matter/energy flux. good luck trying to make it through in one piece.
2. wormholes can connect ANY 2 points. do you want to go into a wh and come out right next to a supernova or a black hole?
3. we too posess anti-matter tech, but i fail to see how that will keep a wh 'open'. even the bajoran wormhole does not require an anti-matter tech to keep open (is another matter that sisko has to sacrifice quark's monthly profit to appease the wormhole creatures)
4. they may or may not need similar life support. i strongly prefer the former. i think that 'life' has a basic template. carbon based organisms can only evolve in a few restricted directions. this is the reason why fish-aliens or bird-aliens cannot exist. they couldnt make and hold tools woth their appendages!!
same with quadrupeds, no hands to hold tools. so unless the aliens are psychic, we can safely assume that the aliens will have a pair of "arms", "legs", and at least something resembling a head.
5. i dont think anything can change their basic composition just like that.
do you know why is arsenic poisonous? it is very similar chemically to phosphorous, which is an essesntial compound in our DNA. it is so similar that it replaces phosphorous in all the essential sites. hence, the RNA and ribosomes cannot duplicate the pattern, and everything halts in the cell, and it dies. when enough cells die, the body dies too.
good luck changing the 'basic structure' of someone without incredibly advanced nano-bots, or genetically tailored viruses.

M

Yes i think they exist.

Well some people say that the pyramids of giza act as a compass for UFO'S.
But i dont believe in Aliens anymore.
As most of the theories have been proved wrong.Like the crop circles etc.
But heres what my friend says "There Might have been some flying objects(UFOS) in the past,Because many mythological Epics have Flying chariots etc."
Well anyone heard of the red Rain in Kerala which took place a few years ago.It contained DNA ailments.Which some Scientists say is not found in earth??
Is it true?

serpent16 said:
Well anyone heard of the red Rain in Kerala which took place a few years ago.It contained DNA ailments.Which some Scientists say is not found in earth??
Is it true?

Please support with credible source.

^ prolly this> *news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6146292.stm

and

Discovery of a Water Snake That Predicts the Direction Its Prey Will Flee

serpent16 said:
Well some people say that the pyramids of giza act as a compass for UFO'S.
But i dont believe in Aliens anymore.
As most of the theories have been proved wrong.Like the crop circles etc.
But heres what my friend says "There Might have been some flying objects(UFOS) in the past,Because many mythological Epics have Flying chariots etc."
Well anyone heard of the red Rain in Kerala which took place a few years ago.It contained DNA ailments.Which some Scientists say is not found in earth??
Is it true?

crop circles are not "alien evidence", they were, and are made by pranksters, and they are pretty easy to make, given that you have a good gps, and a topographical/survey map.

hah, if there were extra-terrestrial dna segments, then there would be a bigger hue and cry than that.
the first question would be : how did the dna survive the outerspace?
the almost 0 kelvin temps, hard radiation, heat from re-entry.... it all would've fused the dna into a ball of random proteins. and if those "alien life" can survive outer space, then they can easily survive our planet.

forget about mythological epics, most of them are manufactured lies and blatant mis-information.

huge mutant monkeys making bridges out of rocks taht stretch for miles? where was their stone quarry?
squirrels are striped coz a dark guy stroked one of them??? squirrel must be more promiscuous than rakhi sawant and poonam pandey rolled into one.
100 sons? of a blind couple? yeah, that explains it. they couldnt find the contraceptives.
weird arrows with freaky properties? lets use them against china, no need for agni V

if aliens are there, then they will not leave cryptic messages like that.

*i.imgur.com/j9r3F.jpg

Why is this thread still here?

the cow was "probed" by "them"

I do believe in aliens.

Its idiotic to see "We are the only life forms" in this Universe, where there's a possibility of Multiverses.

Another major HOAX is the mayan calender :lol:

this thread is running from 2006 and I haven't read it at least once

.. (may be couple of post

)

Is the mayan calender really a hoax

theserpent said:
Is the mayan calender really a hoax

No. It's not.
Although, the theory about being it related to the end of the world is one...

...probably.

^^ I highly doubt the world will end this year

Now they say mars rover caught blobing lights that can be UFO'S :O

Apocalypse means a change not 'the end'.

axes2t2 said:
Apocalypse means a change not 'the end'.

Sure?

a·poc·a·lypse /əˈpäkəˌlips/
Noun:

1. The complete final destruction of the world, esp. as described in the biblical book of Revelation.
2. An event involving destruction or damage on an awesome or catastrophic scale.

Source: Apocalypse - Google Search

Apocalypse means end. The End. But contrary to popular belief, it signifies rebirth as well. The biblical texts and many other civilizations consider it as the snakes head biting it's tail - a symbol of infinite time, i.e. with end comes a new beginning. Many words are there: Apocalypse, Cataclysm, Ragnarok signifying destruction and chaos, but all follow the rebirth cycle theory as well.

M

My goodness!!

Just found this thread - don't know about UFOs and aliens, but one things for sure - too many people have too much time in their hands!

Vyom said:
Sure?

Source: Apocalypse - Google Search

Mayans didn't have google.Their definition is different.

Twice in the past six days someone has thrown a google definition in my face.

I know most of you are gonna say I'm kidding or just being silly but I did spot a "UFO" a few years back in Bangalore !
Of course I don't mean to say that Aliens definitely exist but we really can never be sure unless some concrete evidence shows up.

axes2t2 said:
Mayans didn't have google.Their definition is different.

Twice in the past six days someone has thrown a google definition in my face.

Oops! Didn't know you were smarter then Google!

My bad.

Kidding.

Vyom said:
Oops! Didn't know you were smarter then Google!
My bad.

Kidding.

*smarter than

i dont beleive they exists may be i m wrong

and 'bhoot' hote ha?

google is totally borked atm
for example search "apple vs htc" and you will get apple vs samsung... you have to do "apple vs htc" -samsung to get apple vs htc. this is the most basic function of a search engine.
also, it cannot understand words
so US soldier saved by afghan villagers will only give you variations of US soldier slaughters afghan villagers, or US soldier runs amok in afghanistan, not what you are looking for
have begun to use bing after they removed the small sized photo search, and that redundant "I'm feeling lucky" button on the homepage because you cant click it at all, when you start typing the results appear.

@ujjwal007

I don't for sure but I guess "bhoot" may exist. LOL

@topic

Anybody here have any experiences with Ghosts ?

randomuser111 said:
@ujjwal007

I don't for sure but I guess "bhoot" may exist. LOL

@topic

Anybody here have any experiences with Ghosts ?

LOL yeah i had one experience....and i dont know who are those in "mandhipur balaji" i went to there one time i go to 2nd or 3rd floor i dont remember which floor is that i got very scared when i reached there i was with my family around 20 peoples suddenly something happened to one of my aunt in 2nd or 3rd floor she was not able to leave it something is pulling her over there she was crying and when i saw her expression i was also literally crying cant explain anymore how was the experience i cant beleive myself whats happend i m just shocked cant sleep for days when i saw that so from that day never gone there when i by passing jaipur dad wants to visit there everytime!! but i only go with him when he agree me he wont take me there literally it was very scary experience of my life...!

^^too vague and perfectly suitable for a UFO experience.

Everybody is an Alien.

T

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Kiran.dks said:
Existance of UFO's depends upon the existance of the one who created UFO.

There are millions of stars in the Universe. That means there are so that many solar systems in the Universe. And each solar system has got 'n' number of Planets. So you have millions of Planets in our Universe.

Now among those million planets, question arises as to how many are earth like planets. It's not that hard to calculate. Simple proability reveals, out of those million Planets, let's assume that there are 30,000 earth like planets. Earth like planets means which can support life.

Now out of those 30,000 earth like planets,there is always a chance of alteast 6000 planets supporting Life.

That doesn't end there..

Not every Planet of those 6000 will support Intelligent life. Some may be just be simple life forms like Unicellular organisms.

So out of those 6000 planets, there is always a probability of around 3000 planets supporting Intelligent life! Level of Intelligence life may vary abruptly.
Some may be 'Human-like' and some like those shown in our movies!

There is always a probability that any of these Super-intelligent life forms may technology which we just can't imagine!

Humans totally depend on propulsion technology for achieving motion in air. Aliens may have found out a method of creating it own gravitational force along its flying object!! Nothing is impossible. Humans may also do it one day.
Who believed a thing like 'Aircraft' will exist on earth? No one imagined earlier! But now it's the fact.

One can't ignore the mere existence of UFO's. Now it's a matter of time when they visit earth.. or... HOLD ON........................
ARE THEY ALREADY HERE?!?

Though intelligent answer this writer like so many other assumes that super beigns r extra terrestrials will work the way humans work. That they have weak bodies that need the safety of a spaceship (a flying saucer) to visit our planet. What if they are so much developed they they can travel through their mind or some other technology that we cannot even think of? UFO are alien space ship or not is a mooted point compared to extra terrestial life and how it will change our universe's world view. And the truth may be stranger than fiction!

axes2t2 said:
Mayans didn't have google.Their definition is different.

Twice in the past six days someone has thrown a google definition in my face.

Maybe they did, and then due to an apocalypse, google changed.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Kiran.dks said:
Existance of UFO's depends upon the existance of the one who created UFO.

There are millions of stars in the Universe. That means there are so that many solar systems in the Universe. And each solar system has got 'n' number of Planets. So you have millions of Planets in our Universe.

Now among those million planets, question arises as to how many are earth like planets. It's not that hard to calculate. Simple proability reveals, out of those million Planets, let's assume that there are 30,000 earth like planets. Earth like planets means which can support life.

Now out of those 30,000 earth like planets,there is always a chance of alteast 6000 planets supporting Life.

That doesn't end there..

Not every Planet of those 6000 will support Intelligent life. Some may be just be simple life forms like Unicellular organisms.

So out of those 6000 planets, there is always a probability of around 3000 planets supporting Intelligent life! Level of Intelligence life may vary abruptly.
Some may be 'Human-like' and some like those shown in our movies!

There is always a proability that any of these Super-intelligent life forms may technology which we just can't imagine!

Humans totally depend on propulsion technology for achieving motion in air. Aliens may have found out a method of creating it own gravitational force along its flying object!! Nothng is impossible. Humans may also do it one day.
Who believed a thing like 'Aircraft' will exist on earth? No one imagined earlier! But now it's the fact.

One can't ignore the mere existence of UFO's. Now it's a matter of time when they visit earth.. or... HOLD ON........................
ARE THEY ALREADY HERE?!?

"There are millions of stars in the universe" - You are right, but that looks boring. There are tens of billions of stars in our own galaxy and there are billions of galaxies. There are of sextillions of stars in the universe (just the observable universe). And to put that in number, 1 sextillion is - 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

To answer the question of the thread, Aliens exist (Life in one form or the other is there for sure), but sighting of UFO's? I don't think so. First, there are certainly no signs of highly intelligent life form in this Solar System. Second, interstellar travel takes enormous amount of time. Technology advanced life form can only originate/thrive on planetary bodies and the nearby star's planets show no sign of having anything which is technologically advanced enough to send UFOs. It takes time to enhance one's technological abilities so much as to send something which would sustain any form of intelligent life. Robotic UFOs can be sent, but again, where will the power come from in that tiny space as UFOs are seen to be? When a life form starts getting very intelligent, its way of technical evolution has to be something like that of humans, to an extent. There are social problems, ruling problems, etc..etc.. But it also gets an idea that they have limited resources, and extremely limited on the planet. They'd start to understand technology and eventually start a space program just for curiosity and then then for necessity. But with the limited resources they'd first check other stars and planets and send an unalienated machine before for checking. Considering the timeframe since the Big Bang, evolution of galaxies and stars, planetary bodies, chemical reaction, simple unicellular and multicellular life, catastrophes, emergence of intelligent life, occasional catastrophes (until aliens learn to sustain them and find ways to stop them to certain extents), re-emergence of intelligent life (or in other case annihilation), becoming technologically advanced enough for sending probes to far away stars; it would take a lot of time to reach us. As I mentioned earlier, there's no highly advanced aliens in the nearby Solar systems, so it cannot come from our neighbours. Now let's go several hundred light years away, now even with high technically advanced life and propulsion technologies, it would still take enormous time (since they've to navigate much larger distances). But can aliens from far away galaxies visit us through space warps and other (now considered) sci-fi technologies? Umm.. I don't think so, because if they have this level of scientific knowledge, then they certainly can create intelligence lives themselves and do things an average Joe can't imagine. But then, they know that intelligent life exist in other places and how to visit them without getting caught. If they would have wanted to show themselves, they would have done it earlier. If not, then they can easily hide themselves and not get caught in "UFO sightings" by humans. If they cannot hide themselves properly, then why cannot any other scientific equipment on and above the Earth hint something unusual? Why are they not hiding in and above places that are not populated? A civilization that advanced can create intelligent artificial beings, not only electronic but also biological and then there's not much difference between artificial and natural life. If you stretch the time frame of a civilization, creating artificial, chemical (which when is very complex is called biological) becomes easier than thought. They could have made animal-like beings to navigate the surroundings without creating doubts.

I'm not writing every detail to support my words and other facts (without which most of my words are going to look hollow) I know, otherwise it'd become very long. This is just my radical thinking. But then, everything written above is just the result of the fuzzy probabilistic theories I developed (now don't ask about this). Actual UFO sightings can happen, but given the above looks true to you, its probability is very low. (I was writing all that came to my mind swiftly, so I haven't done proofreading of this essay like reply, so there can be mistakes.)

if intergalactic beings are really intelligent they'd avoid coming to earth.
they would laugh their sock off( if they have feet) seeing us collapse under our own mistakes, who knows?? maybe they have cctv cameras or something to spy on us..

they could be reading this very post of mine thinking " he's a smart one.... lets get him"

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

jayantr7 said:
To answer the question of the thread, Aliens exist (Life in one form or the other is there for sure), but sighting of UFO's? I don't think so.
er, no, there are many confirmed and unconfirmed UFO sightings and encounters.

First, there are certainly no signs of highly intelligent life form in this Solar System. Second, interstellar travel takes enormous amount of time.
OFC not, in this solar system, we have the only planet with a suitable environment for lifeforms like us. until we see lifeforms based on elements other than carbon, we will not be finding "life" in our solar system.
we are a carbon based life form, that means, carbon forms the most important part of our bodies.
now imagine a creature formed of chlorine, silicon, methane. oxygen would be deadly to it. water would just dissolve its structure (like acids do to us). it would prolly look like a cross between a tortoise and a rock. how would you know its "life"?
Interstellar travel takes a lot of time, but you know, there could be ways to overcome that problem. long living species comes to my mind... cryogenic freezing, bending the laws of physics.. etc.

It takes time to enhance one's technological abilities so much as to send something which would sustain any form of intelligent life.
you assume that every planetary life system had started at the same time as ours....
what if the first 3 billion years were not wasted by one celled organisms floating in the ocean? what if the cells became multicellular in just a few million years? those guys could be ruling galaxies..... what if THOSE guys think that theirs is the only life? will they look in other galaxises? our galaxy?

Robotic UFOs can be sent, but again, where will the power come from in that tiny space as UFOs are seen to be?
as i said, lots of sources. fusion, matter-antimatter reactions.

When a life form starts getting very intelligent, its way of technical evolution has to be something like that of humans, to an extent. There are social problems, ruling problems, etc..etc.. But it also gets an idea that they have limited resources, and extremely limited on the planet. They'd start to understand technology and eventually start a space program just for curiosity and then then for necessity. But with the limited resources they'd first check other stars and planets and send an unalienated machine before for checking. Considering the timeframe since the Big Bang, evolution of galaxies and stars, planetary bodies, chemical reaction, simple unicellular and multicellular life, catastrophes, emergence of intelligent life, occasional catastrophes (until aliens learn to sustain them and find ways to stop them to certain extents), re-emergence of intelligent life (or in other case annihilation), becoming technologically advanced enough for sending probes to far away stars; it would take a lot of time to reach us.

^^ read the one where i wrote about the lost 3 billion years.

Umm.. I don't think so, because if they have this level of scientific knowledge, then they certainly can create intelligence lives themselves and do things an average Joe can't imagine. But then, they know that intelligent life exist in other places and how to visit them without getting caught. If they would have wanted to show themselves, they would have done it earlier. If not, then they can easily hide themselves and not get caught in "UFO sightings" by humans.
If they cannot hide themselves properly, then why cannot any other scientific equipment on and above the Earth hint something unusual? Why are they not hiding in and above places that are not populated? A civilization that advanced can create intelligent artificial beings, not only electronic but also biological and then there's not much difference between artificial and natural life. If you stretch the time frame of a civilization, creating artificial, chemical (which when is very complex is called biological) becomes easier than thought. They could have made animal-like beings to navigate the surroundings without creating doubts.
good point

replies in blue italics

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

doomgiver said:
replies in blue italics

"er, no, there are many confirmed and unconfirmed UFO sightings and encounters."
There isn't any "confirmed" UFO case. Most of the encounters have been proved false by experts. Just think, if an alien community come to our planet, it can only come if it has incredibly incredible technology. Then it can easily show themselves to us, but they didn't. So they try to hide. But if they try to hide (using methods which we don't know), why would they show themselves to us? I can only think one reason for this by an intelligent being - Hide & Seek.

we are a carbon based life form, that means, carbon forms the most important part of our bodies.
now imagine a creature formed of chlorine, silicon, methane. oxygen would be deadly to it. water would just dissolve its structure (like acids do to us). it would prolly look like a cross between a tortoise and a rock. how would you know its "life"?
Interstellar travel takes a lot of time, but you know, there could be ways to overcome that problem. long living species comes to my mind... cryogenic freezing, bending the laws of physics.. etc."

I told about technologically advanced beings. Even if they're chlorine based or arsenic based, they'd have to use materials present where they live, which is mostly metals and other abundant elements like Hydrogen/helium. They can use it raw, so they have to exploit it, and it creates by-products which can sensed by present-day space machines built by us. Hypothetically, if you have gigantic radio telescopes, and telescopes which 'sees' in different spectrums, you can focus on Earth and sense abnormal activity there. By taking time, I mean travelling time, and not the relative time inside the probe. Cryogenic freezing would just stop biological activities of our bodies (There must be better methods to overcome ageing problems - modifying our body) and not speed up time taken to reach our planet. You don't bend 'Laws of Physics', you follow it every time. There's no absolute law yet, it's more like a collection of overlapping maps. When you hear that black holes bend the laws of physics, they actually don't. They just don't use the classical laws which we're familiar with. We don't know the law. 150 years before, when there wasn't any Theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics, many now-easily-proved things used to 'bend the laws of physics', for us.

"you assume that every planetary life system had started at the same time as ours....
what if the first 3 billion years were not wasted by one celled organisms floating in the ocean? what if the cells became multicellular in just a few million years? those guys could be ruling galaxies..... what if THOSE guys think that theirs is the only life? will they look in other galaxises? our galaxy?"
Well! This can certainly happen, but the probability get lower and lower as you shorten the timeframe, considering the innumerable variables that sets up an intelligent life form.

"good point "
Yours too! :-D

.. and its science, where the quantum world rules. You can be right, I can be right, we both can't be right, or we both can be right at the same time.

I have also seen an UFO maybe.......
2 yrs ago , during returning frm tution , there was something strange in the sky...It was night clear sky.. a peculiar shaped object was hovering.. it took 2 rounds and vanished..if it was aircraft then it would not strangely vanish like thiss...

Aliens dont necessarily to be a superior-being than humans, with high-class technologies.
Its possible to have a class lower than that of us too.

A living being irrespective of huge/tiny size, when scared, will strike back.
Also Applicable to Aliens.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

jayantr7 said:
"er, no, there are many confirmed and unconfirmed UFO sightings and encounters."
There isn't any "confirmed" UFO case. Most of the encounters have been proved false by experts. Just think, if an alien community come to our planet, it can only come if it has incredibly incredible technology. Then it can easily show themselves to us, but they didn't. So they try to hide. But if they try to hide (using methods which we don't know), why would they show themselves to us? I can only think one reason for this by an intelligent being - Hide & Seek.
there are hundreds of "confirmed" sightings. just becasue the govt does not want to make it public does not mean that it does not exist.
ok, example : you are in a forest, trying to take a photo of a chimpanzee. you are using an Invisiblity cloak to hide your ass.
suddenly, you need to pee. you cant do it under the cloak, else you'll get pee all over it. you poke yours truly out of the cloak and take a leak. the chimp sees yours truly. you didnt want him to see it, but it *just* happened. luck, chance, whatever.

we are a carbon based life form, that means, carbon forms the most important part of our bodies.
now imagine a creature formed of chlorine, silicon, methane. oxygen would be deadly to it. water would just dissolve its structure (like acids do to us). it would prolly look like a cross between a tortoise and a rock. how would you know its "life"?
Interstellar travel takes a lot of time, but you know, there could be ways to overcome that problem. long living species comes to my mind... cryogenic freezing, bending the laws of physics.. etc."
I told about technologically advanced beings. Even if they're chlorine based or arsenic based, they'd have to use materials present where they live, which is mostly metals and other abundant elements like Hydrogen/helium. They can use it raw, so they have to exploit it, and it creates by-products which can sensed by present-day space machines built by us. Hypothetically, if you have gigantic radio telescopes, and telescopes which 'sees' in different spectrums, you can focus on Earth and sense abnormal activity there. By taking time, I mean travelling time, and not the relative time inside the probe. Cryogenic freezing would just stop biological activities of our bodies (There must be better methods to overcome ageing problems - modifying our body) and not speed up time taken to reach our planet. You don't bend 'Laws of Physics', you follow it every time. There's no absolute law yet, it's more like a collection of overlapping maps. When you hear that black holes bend the laws of physics, they actually don't. They just don't use the classical laws which we're familiar with. We don't know the law. 150 years before, when there wasn't any Theory of Relativity and Quantum Physics, many now-easily-proved things used to 'bend the laws of physics', for us.
ok, listen : the earth has an atmosphere that blocks out most EM radiation. how do you sense something properly when there is a thick atmosphere blocking you? one solution only : close range monitoring. cant do it in space, humans may be watching. so mingle with the humans, who is gonna know? oh wait, i forgot my prosthetic nose... well, i can be lord voldemort today.

"you assume that every planetary life system had started at the same time as ours....
what if the first 3 billion years were not wasted by one celled organisms floating in the ocean? what if the cells became multicellular in just a few million years? those guys could be ruling galaxies..... what if THOSE guys think that theirs is the only life? will they look in other galaxises? our galaxy?"
Well! This can certainly happen, but the probability get lower and lower as you shorten the timeframe, considering the innumerable variables that sets up an intelligent life form.
yes.

"good point "
Yours too! .. and its science, where the quantum world rules. You can be right, I can be right, we both can't be right, or we both can be right at the same time.

replies in red underline.... pls start quoting me. else i have to choose a different color next time

W

just my 2 cents.aliens may exist as probability is there but i seriously doubt they can accidentally reveal themselves so many times.its like saying a quantum computer(which we haven't invented yet btw) is buggy like windows 95 pc.one or two instances is alright but not these so called 10s/100s of ufo encounters in all these years.

about time travel i simply don't think its possible because of various paradoxes.i know scifi depicts time travel & goes around paradoxes by concepts like timelines/alternate universes but still in my opinion it violates the most basic & absolute law of conservation of energy(the only law which can not be broken in my opinion by anyone,god included for those who believe

).

^^ sort-of right. but see it from this perspective : their technology may not be perfect. hell, even windows 7 crashes some time. given enough time and windows 7 machines, there will come a day that all windows 7 will crash at the same time (even though the probablity of hat happening is close to zero, its finitely probable, hence, it is infinitely improbable)

R

First of everybody please first know what is a UFO..UFO stands for Unidentified flying object.
It is nothing but a flying object that has NOT been identified as anything the World knows of...... publicly.

Asking if a UFO exists or saying that you believe in UFO's does not make sense.

The earliest UFO's were flying saucers. No one had seen such a flying object and they were not able to identify it as any of the existing flying objects at that time. So they called it well.........a UFO.

There is a lot of conspiracy theories and even de classified information that USA has been working on Flying saucer technology for more than 100 years.
The UFO' at that time could have been any one of these flying saucers being tested by the USA Defence.

Alien's do exists. The vedas say that there are 50000 humanoid species and all of them do not exist on planet earth. Hence they are alien to the planet earth.

Again an Alient does not have to be a green slimy predator/species kind of a living thing, It can very well be humonoids just like us. All those images and the general idea we have of aliens are from 3rd grade Sci fi movies.

For some reasons hollywood found that such kind of alien movies would sell and they were right.
Learn to separate reality from movies.

Lastly time travel just not possible..Period. You can never ever travel back in time or forward..I don't want to get into that argument, but its logically not possible.
It maybe possible to "look" back in time based on an uproven theory that every thing has a vibration and the vibrations exists forever so if one could tap into that they could see the past. The future only possible if the theory that every thing is pre-determined is true then only its possible to "look" into the future. Otherwise not possible at all only past is possible.

From all other existing theories about reality even the unproven ones(even the parallel universe theory which is only half baked. That is if you dig deep you will find that its logically impossible) one cannot travel in time.

^^ haha, noobs always post here. its a proven thing.
we should change the topic to : hello, newbs!! enjoy your first shot of trolls and rage here.

rajsanand said:
Alien's do exists. The vedas say that there are 50000 humanoid species and all of them do not exist on planet earth. Hence they are alien to the planet earth.

Because vedas say, aliens exist? Cool. Then why not to believe Hollywood movies too?

Again an Alien does not have to be a green slimy predator/species kind of a living thing, It can very well be humonoids just like us. All those images and the general idea we have of aliens are from 3rd grade Sci fi movies.

If you read even two posts in this thread, you will realize no one said they need to be movie-like.

Lastly time travel just not possible..Period. You can never ever travel back in time or forward..I don't want to get into that argument, but its logically not possible.
It maybe possible to "look" back in time based on an uproven theory that every thing has a vibration and the vibrations exists forever so if one could tap into that they could see the past. The future only possible if the theory that every thing is pre-determined is true then only its possible to "look" into the future. Otherwise not possible at all only past is possible.

I can think of why back travel is not possible, it will make an paradox, but why not future? Any actions taken place in future will not make any difference in then past/current present, so no paradox. What other logic is there?

W

^^in my opinion traveling in time back or forward is not possible because of violation of the most basic & absolute law of conservation of energy.e.g.if a person travel from 21st century to say 25th century then it means after his departure from 21st century the universe of 21st century will lose some energy while after his appearance in 25th century the universe of 25th century would gain energy.this is not possible because total energy of 21st century universe & 25th century universe must be same.i can agree with viewing the past because that does not require any transfer of energy.

whitestar_999 said:
^^in my opinion traveling in time back or forward is not possible because of violation of the most basic & absolute law of conservation of energy.e.g.if a person travel from 21st century to say 25th century then it means after his departure from 21st century the universe of 21st century will lose some energy while after his appearance in 25th century the universe of 25th century would gain energy.this is not possible because total energy of 21st century universe & 25th century universe must be same.i can agree with viewing the past because that does not require any transfer of energy.

Interesting... Thanks.

whitestar_999 said:
^^in my opinion traveling in time back or forward is not possible because of violation of the most basic & absolute law of conservation of energy.e.g.if a person travel from 21st century to say 25th century then it means after his departure from 21st century the universe of 21st century will lose some energy while after his appearance in 25th century the universe of 25th century would gain energy.this is not possible because total energy of 21st century universe & 25th century universe must be same.i can agree with viewing the past because that does not require any transfer of energy.

check this interesting debate about this topic: Conservation of energy/mass and time travel

W

^^lots of talk but conclusion is no credible proof.to get around the conservation of energy principle & paradoxes alternate universes & timelines were proposed but so far there is no credible way to establish it & in my opinion there never will be.though time travel sound like easy/normal concept to many people but scientifically speaking it is not.even 1 sub-atomic particle traveling through time has massive implications for entire universe let alone a body/organism/piece of equipment.

whitestar_999 said:
^^lots of talk but conclusion is no credible proof.to get around the conservation of energy principle & paradoxes alternate universes & timelines were proposed but so far there is no credible way to establish it & in my opinion there never will be.though time travel sound like easy/normal concept to many people but scientifically speaking it is not.even 1 sub-atomic particle traveling through time has massive implications for entire universe let alone a body/organism/piece of equipment.

Offtopic:
You're economist, physicist, what else? Part time , entrepreneur, teacher, lawyer too?

W

^^i am an engineer who is reading newspaper for over 2 decades now so you can assume that i know a lot of things about lot of subjects.i have read basics of Einstein's theory of relativity & paradoxes.by scientifically speaking i meant what seems so easy requires solving a very high level of calculus equations which makes 3rd & 4th order differential equations like child's play.space-time physics as well as quantum physics first requires highly complex equations & after that needs highly complex instruments which can apply those equations.its not like someone just propose a set of equations & all is done.just a week ago there is a news in paper about Australian mathematicians proposing a set of equations for faster than light travel by extending theory of relativity to a situation where relative velocity is infinite but they didn't claim that faster than light travel is possible but just that if physicists ever found a way then these equations will help.i am fairly certain that i am the first & probably the only one here who noticed this news in paper & remembered it for its importance so that should give you an idea about my awareness.

P.S.i don't like the terrorist part of your reply & found it offensive so edit your post.

whitestar_999 said:
^^i am an engineer who is reading newspaper for over 2 decades now so you can assume that i know a lot of things about lot of subjects.i have read basics of Einstein's theory of relativity & paradoxes.by scientifically speaking i meant what seems so easy requires solving a very high level of calculus equations which makes 3rd & 4th order differential equations like child's play.space-time physics as well as quantum physics first requires highly complex equations & after that needs highly complex instruments which can apply those equations.its not like someone just propose a set of equations & all is done.just a week ago there is a news in paper about Australian mathematicians proposing a set of equations for faster than light travel by extending theory of relativity to a situation where relative velocity is infinite but they didn't claim that faster than light travel is possible but just that if physicists ever found a way then these equations will help.i am fairly certain that i am the first & probably the only one here who noticed this news in paper & remembered it for its importance so that should give you an idea about my awareness.

P.S.i don't like the terrorist part of your reply & found it offensive so edit your post.

I'm sorry, didn't mean any offence.

W

good to know & i appreciate it.

it is just that on internet only words convey our message without any facial expressions to help so it is easy to misinterpret things.still it is my personal opinion that words like terrorist should not be used lightly in today's time.

Adding to the possibility of UFO/Alien/Time_Travel, does the WORMHOLE really exists?
I watched a documentary by Discovery, in which a pilot said he crossed a distance of 130~150 kms in just 3 mins, by passing thro a hole surrounded by vortex of black clouds!

Gearbox said:
Adding to the possibility of UFO/Alien/Time_Travel, does the WORMHOLE really exists?
I watched a documentary by Discovery, in which a pilot said he crossed a distance of 130~150 kms in just 3 mins, by passing thro a hole surrounded by vortex of black clouds!

Bermuda Triangle?

^ Exactly. If wormholes are real, then aliens will be real too.
Maybe they could've a technology to travel thro wormholes across the universe(s). These alien sightings may've occured when they travelled somewhere and accidentally sighted by Earthlings.

If they can travel in linear space-time, by this time, our scientists would've found atleast one REAL/ACTUAL non-earthling. Maybe, thats the reason we cant find'em as they skip the light-year travel and directly run thro wormholes. Again, this is just my opinion and am not a scientist (pun intended :lol:

)

whitestar_999 said:
^^in my opinion traveling in time back or forward is not possible because of violation of the most basic & absolute law of conservation of energy.e.g.if a person travel from 21st century to say 25th century then it means after his departure from 21st century the universe of 21st century will lose some energy while after his appearance in 25th century the universe of 25th century would gain energy.this is not possible because total energy of 21st century universe & 25th century universe must be same.i can agree with viewing the past because that does not require any transfer of energy.

that energy difference may just be the required energy to travel through time... like a travelling fee, if you imagine.
anyhow, shouldnt the total energy of a set of time streams be constant?

whitestar_999 said:
^^lots of talk but conclusion is no credible proof.to get around the conservation of energy principle & paradoxes alternate universes & timelines were proposed but so far there is no credible way to establish it & in my opinion there never will be.though time travel sound like easy/normal concept to many people but scientifically speaking it is not.even 1 sub-atomic particle traveling through time has massive implications for entire universe let alone a body/organism/piece of equipment.

er, you seem to be dead set against things that dont appear "normal" to you.

just because it doenst "look" right, it shouldnt be impossible or something.
hell, some people even predicted that no one would buy computers, coz they were too unwieldly.
the thing is, we are doing experiments at such low level of energy, that we are close to zero on finding newer stuff.

we have saturated this "energy band" of physics.

example :

electro-magnetic unification : ~0.5 Mega electron volts <- 100 years ago (maxwell, fermi, etc)
electro-weak unification : ~1 Giga eV <- we are here
gravity-quantum unification : 100+ G eV <- we want to be here

see, there is a huge gap for the gravity-quantum physics unification... our current atom smashers, like the LHC and the tevatron can only do ~17 GeV. thats much lower than the limit of the unification energy. there is still a LOT of work to be done.

whitestar_999 said:
^^i am an engineer who is reading newspaper for over 2 decades now so you can assume that i know a lot of things about lot of subjects.i have read basics of Einstein's theory of relativity & paradoxes.by scientifically speaking i meant what seems so easy requires solving a very high level of calculus equations which makes 3rd & 4th order differential equations like child's play.space-time physics as well as quantum physics first requires highly complex equations & after that needs highly complex instruments which can apply those equations.its not like someone just propose a set of equations & all is done.just a week ago there is a news in paper about Australian mathematicians proposing a set of equations for faster than light travel by extending theory of relativity to a situation where relative velocity is infinite but they didn't claim that faster than light travel is possible but just that if physicists ever found a way then these equations will help.i am fairly certain that i am the first & probably the only one here who noticed this news in paper & remembered it for its importance so that should give you an idea about my awareness.

P.S.i don't like the terrorist part of your reply & found it offensive so edit your post.

well, reading just the news is a totally differnet thing than actually reading the scientific journals and keeping up wihh the current developments in the field.
not dissing your knowledge here.

Gearbox said:
Adding to the possibility of UFO/Alien/Time_Travel, does the WORMHOLE really exists?
I watched a documentary by Discovery, in which a pilot said he crossed a distance of 130~150 kms in just 3 mins, by passing thro a hole surrounded by vortex of black clouds!

which shitty show was that? 50 km/min = 1 km/sec = 3000 km/hour = mach 3
easily attainable by the mig-25 "foxbat", even though its a 25 year old fighter. (i freaking LOVE it. its my fav aircraft of its type)

wormholes exist, but not as those kind shown on tv or stuff. they are literally the fabric of the universe pinched together and tied up.

Gearbox said:
^ Exactly. If wormholes are real, then aliens will be real too.
Maybe they could've a technology to travel thro wormholes across the universe(s). These alien sightings may've occured when they travelled somewhere and accidentally sighted by Earthlings.

If they can travel in linear space-time, by this time, our scientists would've found atleast one REAL/ACTUAL non-earthling. Maybe, thats the reason we cant find'em as they skip the light-year travel and directly run thro wormholes. Again, this is just my opinion and am not a scientist (pun intended )

no relation at all between the wormholes and aliens. both can exist without either.

W

^^energy can only be converted never created or destroyed.our universe has same amount of energy today as it had at the beginning & it will have the same energy at any point in future,no way around this.if something ceases to exist from this universe(not destroyed,there is a difference)then it simply means total energy of our universe will decrease which is not possible.

just because neither you nor i are scientists doesn't mean we can't think logically.your logic is based on assumption that there is somehow a way to get around energy conservation principle(no matter what the unified theory research experiment may happen in future this will be the conclusion) but according to me & many others this is simply not possible no matter how much advances we make.like i said this law is considered as absolute & assuming humanity survives billions of years even then this law won't be broken.

reading news is not totally different from actually reading scientific journals because it presents a kind of summary.you missed my point there.everyone who has studied physics in 11th/12th knows about concept of relative velocity.what those australian mathematicians did was propose a set of equation of motions when relative velocity can be infinite(not the actual velocity of an object).also as mathematicians they didn't claimed that faster than light travel is possible but just that if physicists found a way then these equations can be used.now i don't think you need a Phd to understand what i just posted & anyone who has studied & remembered the 11th/12th class physics & theory of relativity can understand the summary.

about that "set of time streams" this is what i am talking about when i say all kinds of things like alternate universes/timelines are proposed to get around energy conservation principle.set of time stream implies that past,present & future are happening simultaneously.again this statement brings its own absurdity.if past,present & future are happening simultaneously then it means that everything is pre-determined & connected because otherwise they won't be connected but if that is true then it is also implied that nothing can be done to change the course of time because doing so will result in dis-connection of past,present & future.

whitestar_999 said:
^^energy can only be converted never created or destroyed.our universe has same amount of energy today as it had at the beginning & it will have the same energy at any point in future,no way around this.if something ceases to exist from this universe(not destroyed,there is a difference)then it simply means total energy of our universe will decrease which is not possible.
are you aware of the concept of paralel universes and the multiverse?

just because neither you nor i are scientists doesn't mean we can't think logically.your logic is based on assumption that there is somehow a way to get around energy conservation principle(no matter what the unified theory research experiment may happen in future this will be the conclusion) but according to me & many others this is simply not possible no matter how much advances we make.like i said this law is considered as absolute & assuming humanity survives billions of years even then this law won't be broken.
i didnt say that. you are making it up.
the GUT experiments will drastically alter our universe's perseption, to the point that the laws which we take as granted today, may be broken down and replaced by others (remember newtonian physics? i bet you do)

reading news is not totally different from actually reading scientific journals because it presents a kind of summary.you missed my point there.everyone who has studied physics in 11th/12th knows about concept of relative velocity.what those australian mathematicians did was propose a set of equation of motions when relative velocity can be infinite(not the actual velocity of an object).also as mathematicians they didn't claimed that faster than light travel is possible but just that if physicists found a way then these equations can be used.now i don't think you need a Phd to understand what i just posted & anyone who has studied & remembered the 11th/12th class physics & theory of relativity can understand the summary.
reading nes is just that, reading news. you miss 90% of the stuff that editors dont think is "cool" or "happening" enough. where is the news of the LHC? of the new 500MW laser that is being used to do fusion research?

about that "set of time streams" this is what i am talking about when i say all kinds of things like alternate universes/timelines are proposed to get around energy conservation principle.set of time stream implies that past,present & future are happening simultaneously.again this statement brings its own absurdity.if past,present & future are happening simultaneously then it means that everything is pre-determined & connected because otherwise they won't be connected but if that is true then it is also implied that nothing can be done to change the course of time because doing so will result in dis-connection of past,present & future.
yes, its all absurd from our current perspective. now bring in aristotle to modern world. he will think this is absurd too. let science take its course, and wait it out.

replies in blues

W

you obviously seems a believer of parallel universes so let's call it a day.till now there is no proof of that & i promise if in our life time it has been proved & digit forum is still here i will post a reply accepting your view.same with breaking of law of conservation of energy.

for those who believe no proof is necessary,for those who don't no evidence is sufficient

whitestar_999 said:
you obviously seems a believer of parallel universes so let's call it a day.till now there is no proof of that & i promise if in our life time it has been proved & digit forum is still here i will post a reply accepting your view.same with breaking of law of conservation of energy.

for those who believe no proof is necessary,for those who don't no evidence is sufficient

For those who want better grammar, even capitalizing properly can help.
And there are things which man knows happens, but doesn't know the reason. So there is evidence of happening, but no proof why. So no one can believe it, and no one can't?

And one thing I don't like about news is, they make it sound 'cooler'(stupider actually) than it is. Remember "God found!" few months back?

I think aliens exists, wormholes too exist but time travel is not possible or it has to be banned like in 'Looper'

^ you have any proof? we are discussing it... we dont want your opinions... facts only please!

i think there will be this huge problem with time travel :

Relation of space-time
we know that the earth revolves around the sun... and the sun revolves about the galactic centre... and that our galaxy moves. how do we know that the earth will be "there" if we travel thru time? at any given second, the absolute speed of the earth may be indefinitely fast....

how do we know that after we go 1 second in the future, the earth will have moved away?

While there are no concrete proof of aliens, a lot of proof on alien activity exists
"Ancient Aliens" gives a lot of proof on ancient activity,
Some of them are -
Ancient structures - underground city in Derinkuyu, The Nazca Lines, Puma Punku
Ancient people world with Monolith of upto 1000 tonnes List of largest monoliths in the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The famous "foo fighters" from World War
The moon, whose origins are unknown, which is said by scientists to be a satellite too big for a planet the size of earth, moreover only one side of moon is visible from the earth, or the dark side of the moon can never be seen from the earth.
There has been some alien activity on our sun and reliable original videos of objects around our sun, I don't have the links currently but can look them up and give it to you if required...
While there have also been videos about nibiru/planet x around our sun, I don't find them credible...
A great deal of information about wormholes is also available on "Ancient Aliens"

How do we know that those structures were made by aliens?
Why not by highly enterprising and gifted engineers?

foo fighters were hype. the nazis were working on many crazy and awesome experiments, including a un/manned missile, submarine towed missiles (precursor of nuclear subs), bio-chem weps, etc. a V1 "flying bomb" may have been spotted with a corona glow, which may happen due to charge imbalances (due to cosmic rays, magnetic fields, whatnot).

Wait, WHAT? moon? towed by freaking aliens? do you know about lagrange point? L1 orbits? TIDELOCKING?

what alien activiity in the sun? collecting solar wind?

wtf dude, you are jsut typing a messed up view of facts. half your post is just plain WRONG. no other way to explain it. STOP, and i mean STOP reading conspiracy theories... they are just that... theories. no proof = goodbye.
people alike you are the reason that genuine UFO/alien believers like us get a bad name in the first place, and are automatically assumed to be stark staring bonkers.

My friend had told the same thing, that how did they lift so heavy stuff etc etc.
He even said, in those mytholigal stories they show flying stuff, they should have seen it..to write about it.He does have a point

theserpent said:
He even said, in those mytholigal stories they show flying stuff, they should have seen it..to write about it.He does have a point

JK Rowling wrote Harry Potter, that means she has seen the magic world and battle of hogwarts!

@doomgiver according to your logics, How do you know the ufo's are driven by aliens and not secret planes being tested, made by highly enterprising and gifted engineers?

Nipun said:
JK Rowling wrote Harry Potter, that means she has seen the magic world and battle of hogwarts!

what about the concrete structures as proof themselves?

you are seriously misunderestimating the determination and tenacity of the early civs, man,

look at the pyramids. marvel of engineering. made without any alien construction drones, or galactic standard cement.

i rest my case.

Nipun said:
JK Rowling wrote Harry Potter, that means she has seen the magic world and battle of hogwarts!

and dont forget Tolkein and his accurate historic account of authenic pre-middle ages.

^ what if pyramids is the last piece of marvel the previous alien+human civilization built as possibilities of pyramid being being a giant instrument are being discussed *www.freewebs.com/garyosborn/Great Pyramid with text.jpg

Over 100 UFOs seen along China border - The Times of India

Why the f have you used a redirector?Also, no pics.Can be flares and such.

it used a redirector itself for not having this '?intenttarget=no' at the end of the url
they are trained army persons and can distinguish between even type of flares, so i would take their word for it.
But ya, it would have been better if they added some much needed pics.

The one.
*media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//2012november/ufo_660_110712110434.jpg

Mystery Sighting Spooks Soldiers : NATION - India Today

Flares are not like rockets... they are designed to burn for the max amount of time and provide illumination. However there are some marker flares (for positioning and navigation, which look a lot like these flares).

90% of the so-called UFO's can be explained naturally.

Waiting for the day when a "real" UFO is documented.

A lot of details being given in the latest episode of Conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura

The US Government reports UFO activity directly to Bigelow Aerospace, which is owned by Robert Bigelow

National Institute for Discovery Science also founded by Robert Bigelow to research and advance serious study of various fringe science, and paranormal topics, most notably ufology. NIDS or Robert Bigelow also owns the Skinwalker Ranch which is a hot spot for alien activity.

MUFON is the oldest and largest UFO-investigative organizations in the United States. In 2009 Robert Bigelow invested $672,000 in MUFON for third-party access to whatever its rapid-response teams recovered.(Robert Bigelow's and MUFON's hybrid UFO investigation venture 'under review' in 2010 - Seattle exopolitics | Examiner.com) After which he allegedly removed all major data from public domain.

So Robert Bigelow owns everything in US related to UFO study points to the conclusion that he has large amounts of proof on alien activity or might even have alien contacts?

I don't believe UFo sightings and such, but I do have some fascinations about the 'Past Civilization/Alien Astonaut' theory and 'Transpermia/Panspermia,' but these are just my fascinations, I don't believe them anyway.

Gearbox said:
The one.
*media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//2012november/ufo_660_110712110434.jpg

Mystery Sighting Spooks Soldiers : NATION - India Today

Must be china testing some new aerial weapons/surveillance units.

W

Robot like airbourne figure?

Ironman!

Kiran.dks said:
Existance of UFO's depends upon the existance of the one who created UFO.

There are millions of stars in the Universe. That means there are so that many solar systems in the Universe. And each solar system has got 'n' number of Planets. So you have millions of Planets in our Universe.

Now among those million planets, question arises as to how many are earth like planets. It's not that hard to calculate. Simple proability reveals, out of those million Planets, let's assume that there are 30,000 earth like planets. Earth like planets means which can support life.

Now out of those 30,000 earth like planets,there is always a chance of alteast 6000 planets supporting Life.

That doesn't end there..

Not every Planet of those 6000 will support Intelligent life. Some may be just be simple life forms like Unicellular organisms.

So out of those 6000 planets, there is always a probability of around 3000 planets supporting Intelligent life! Level of Intelligence life may vary abruptly.
Some may be 'Human-like' and some like those shown in our movies!

There is always a proability that any of these Super-intelligent life forms may technology which we just can't imagine!

Humans totally depend on propulsion technology for achieving motion in air. Aliens may have found out a method of creating it own gravitational force along its flying object!! Nothng is impossible. Humans may also do it one day.
Who believed a thing like 'Aircraft' will exist on earth? No one imagined earlier! But now it's the fact.

One can't ignore the mere existence of UFO's. Now it's a matter of time when they visit earth.. or... HOLD ON........................
ARE THEY ALREADY HERE?!?

I Totally Agree.

Even if there is a planet like earth,we wont be able to see them,because they will be so much far away.

Our earth doesn't even occupy .001% of universe. Hell we don't even know the end point of it. So how can we say there are no earth like planets in the remaining 99.999% of universe?

saw video of that thing, cant find it now, shows walking robotic figure suddenly rising up into the air

oxygen and carbon are the third and fourth most abundant elements in the universe

Harsh Pranami said:
Our earth doesn't even occupy .001% of universe. Hell we don't even know the end point of it. So how can we say there are no earth like planets in the remaining 99.999% of universe?

the earth occupies less than 10^-31 % of the observable universe.

the local supercluster of galaxies might occypy 0.000001%, but i'd not bet on it.

you seriously underestimate the scale of the universe.

Yeah, srsly underestimate, matter is nothing
*i.imgur.com/SPR587b.png

that pie chart should show the %age by volume, then "atoms" would be a thin slice the width of a small virus.

this is an edit of my previous post : there are several earth-like planets, in terms of geology, but none in terms of biology.
mars and venus are quite like earth, except that mars is a cold, arid desert, venus is a poisonous, dense hothouse.

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Kiran.dks said:
Existance of UFO's depends upon the existance of the one who created UFO.

There are millions of stars in the Universe. That means there are so that many solar systems in the Universe. And each solar system has got 'n' number of Planets. So you have millions of Planets in our Universe.

Now among those million planets, question arises as to how many are earth like planets. It's not that hard to calculate. Simple proability reveals, out of those million Planets, let's assume that there are 30,000 earth like planets. Earth like planets means which can support life.

Now out of those 30,000 earth like planets,there is always a chance of alteast 6000 planets supporting Life.

That doesn't end there..

Not every Planet of those 6000 will support Intelligent life. Some may be just be simple life forms like Unicellular organisms.

So out of those 6000 planets, there is always a probability of around 3000 planets supporting Intelligent life! Level of Intelligence life may vary abruptly.
Some may be 'Human-like' and some like those shown in our movies!

There is always a proability that any of these Super-intelligent life forms may technology which we just can't imagine!

Humans totally depend on propulsion technology for achieving motion in air. Aliens may have found out a method of creating it own gravitational force along its flying object!! Nothng is impossible. Humans may also do it one day.
Who believed a thing like 'Aircraft' will exist on earth? No one imagined earlier! But now it's the fact.

One can't ignore the mere existence of UFO's. Now it's a matter of time when they visit earth.. or... HOLD ON........................
ARE THEY ALREADY HERE?!?

Watch the show Through The Wormhole With Morgan Freeman entirely (if not possible watch S1 E6) you will get your answer!

*billions of galaxies in universe, each having ~100 billion stars on average.

lets just say that every billionth star has a habiltable planet, thats like 1 trillion habitable planets.
assume every millionth planet has life, thats like 100 million planets with life
assume every millionth planet has intelligent life, thats like 100 intelligent races.
assume half of them are not too advanced.
assume half of that number dies out randomly,

still leaves about 25 intelligent races in the universe (thats a very conservative number)

W

if they are intelligent then they will not consider coming to earth in next 1000 years at least(assuming earth/humans can survive that long).

whitestar_999 said:
if they are intelligent then they will not consider coming to earth in next 1000 years at least(assuming earth/humans can survive that long).

I agree ! Infact they they will never come..

If humans can look at a distant planet's spectroscopy results and tell the composition of the atmosphere "they" sure can smell our activities, say CFCs in our atmosphere..

*2.bp.blogspot.com/_pJtVHTCb89Q/TTgwVhRJ0XI/AAAAAAAAKmk/oqGXxUVbz4M/s1600/Picture6.png

*4.bp.blogspot.com/_pJtVHTCb89Q/TTgwYApsiFI/AAAAAAAAKmo/vWYLk37m5SI/s1600/Picture7.png

^^

someone nsfw tag those pics :lol:

yeah how indecent to leave your antenna exposed for all to see

Faun said:
someone nsfw tag those pics

Anorion said:
yeah how indecent to leave your antenna exposed for all to see

Series of 'Ancient Alien' is being broadcasted in History TV channel at 10.30PM.
Watch it everyday and you will soon start believe that aliens really exist.
They will give you good reason for if aliens exist.

The link to the video OP gave is fake.
Though I believe in aliens but that video is fake.

Jesus Stops Alien Abductions! - Project Nsearch

Makx said:
Jesus Stops Alien Abductions! - Project Nsearch

Religious nutjobs
:facepalm:

©mß said:
Series of 'Ancient Alien' is being broadcasted in History TV channel at 10.30PM.
Watch it everyday and you will soon start believe that aliens really exist.
They will give you good reason for if aliens exist.

The link to the video OP gave is fake.
Though I believe in aliens but that video is fake.

It's more like a fiction show, really. Although the claims are interesting and worth the watch alone but take it with a grain of salt.

Makx said:
Jesus Stops Alien Abductions! - Project Nsearch

*www.alienjesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sinnomore.jpg
"Is Jesus Christ a Space Alien? Examining the Gospels for Clues"

*lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4r-bIOyflmM/UTO3NIRFNII/AAAAAAAA1nU/XZq1UUyHmvA/s400/tumblr_mj0vvcqnZx1qdlh1io1_400.gif

*plus.google.com/111417167342795136801/posts/2ywh6TeCSUm

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/attachments/fight-club/10209d1367208207-do-ufos-aliens-exist-time-travel-possible-more-13-1.jpg

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C

Hope everybody has read the DRAKE'S EQUATION:--->

N=R*.fp.ne.fl.fi.fc.L

where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone);

and

R* = the average number of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations)
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space[8] [/QUOTE]

Drake equation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also this TRUE REAL (PROBABILITY of TRUTH + POSSIBILITY) event:

Wow!_signal

kg11sgbg said:
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
Drake equation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this factor changes the equation from the number of intelligent extraterrestrial species in the universe to the number of such species detectable through radio waves
such signals are a sign of early technology, not very economical and it is more of a leak than a signal. we used such signals for a very short span of time (less than 100 years or so)... so it is more like a pulse that passes once rather than a steady indicator

more optimistic that kepler will show up something (perhaps an earthlike in the habitable zone with too much co2?) than SETI

Nice & my fav topic.. subscribed..

this is a study of dna complexity
plotted how much dna has evolved on a chart, it follows moore's law
but perplexingly, the line points to an origin of life before earth

*i.imgur.com/3xcoSF9.jpg

UFO and aliens exist And time travel not posiible

And all genius out there. Its not necessary to have same environment oxygen water to form life on other planet. There may be more elements to support life. Which are unknown to us.

And I think if aliens are there. They may not be interested in human and that's why they don't show up

Aliens existed from 10,000 years:
Aliens do exist. They are here from thousands of years since the Sumerian Civilization and continues through until the last Aztec Civilization across the globe.There is an assumption that they come from the Orion Belt which is a part of the Orion Constellation. This Orion Belt has 4 stars out of which 3 stars lay in the formation of 123 horizontally if you look in the night sky. Some of the great wonders of the Old World are built according to this 3 star formation as seen from earth.So it justifies that aliens were here who have guided us to build such wonders.How come ancient civilizations have built such enormous wonders across the globe ranging from South America to Egypt in exactly the same 123 formation horizontally is nobody could answer.It is up to the future generations to unlock this great mystery or if aliens arrive in the next 20 years or so...

The Orion Belt from Orion Constellation:

*i.imgur.com/uDhAMaG.jpg

*i.imgur.com/2E2rojy.png

Pyramid Complex from Mayan Civilization:

*i.imgur.com/2qi658o.jpg

Pyramid Complex from Egyptian Civilization:

*i.imgur.com/O4GxTCz.jpg

How 2 civilizations from different parts of the world built their pyramids in exactly the same formation which are 5000 years apart from each other and 5000 miles apart from each other ? Can anybody answer this ?

W

^^because they couldn't built it in circles.seriously though why is it that every time something significant is achieved by humans many start giving credit to god/aliens/whatnot.is it so hard to believe that humans can design these structures on their own?spider,a mere insect,build webs made of threads stronger than steel wire of same thickness & in such intricate patterns that can put many designers to shame but no one call it a miracle.as for time & distance again same thing as spiders.spiders have been building webs living across continents & doing so for more than 100 million years.just ask yourself a simple question:after watching a mountain or hill which is the first shape that comes in a person's mind living in those times when thinking about a high structure.many mountains & hills top closely resemble a pyramid shape & most likely gave the idea to people in those times.as for star constellations again night sky has so many stars that you can find hundreds of similar combination patterns & it is quite logical to think that people building such structures would be basing it on some form of divine basis & stars were considered as a perfect choice judging by the names given to them in all cultures mythology/history.

P.S.in my opinion any civilization that could only taught how to made pyramids made of stones would never be advanced enough to travel across space.

whitestar_999 said:
^^because they couldn't built it in circles.seriously though why is it that every time something significant is achieved by humans many start giving credit to god/aliens/whatnot.is it so hard to believe that humans can design these structures on their own?spider,a mere insect,build webs made of threads stronger than steel wire of same thickness & in such intricate patterns that can put many designers to shame but no one call it a miracle.as for time & distance again same thing as spiders.spiders have been building webs living across continents & doing so for more than 100 million years.just ask yourself a simple question:after watching a mountain or hill which is the first shape that comes in a person's mind living in those times when thinking about a high structure.many mountains & hills top closely resemble a pyramid shape & most likely gave the idea to people in those times.as for star constellations again night sky has so many stars that you can find hundreds of similar combination patterns & it is quite logical to think that people building such structures would be basing it on some form of divine basis & stars were considered as a perfect choice judging by the names given to them in all cultures mythology/history.

P.S.in my opinion any civilization that could only taught how to made pyramids made of stones would never be advanced enough to travel across space.

This.
No damn Xel'Naga were involved.

alignment to stars does not stay same over time

NZ govt lacks proof that their prime minister is not a shape shifting reptilian palaedian working towards enslaving humanity
*fyi.org.nz/request/1393/response/5348/attach/3/SL9 Photoco14021114340.pdf

wondering if we can formulate such RTI queries here and get some win

kaha se lekar aate ho ye prachin links, bavusani ?

bavusani said:
Can anybody answer this ?

do you know the amount of radiation in the orion nebula? life as we know it is not possible in those kind of areas.

also, have you thought about that the orion belt is a spectacular sight, and can be easily identified at night?
hell, i can make it out with my cheap telescope in noida, and i dont have that much training.

if there are aliens BEHIND the nebula, there is no way they could have seen the earth through all that radiation and dust clouds.
this can only mean two things :

1. aliens exist and they are closer than the orion nebula.
2. the ancient civilizations build their structures based on the position of the orion belt, NOT due to aliens

EDIT : the 3 stars are named al nitak, al nilam and mintaka, bottom left to top right (hell yeah, remembered correctly!)

You cant say life cant exist there in that kind of radiation as adaptation is always possible of if life wants to sustain it cant even in those adverse conditions ..... ever heard of bacteria surviving in extreme cold temperature ?

- - - Updated - - -

bavusani said:
Aliens existed from 10,000 years:
Aliens do exist. They are here from thousands of years since the Sumerian Civilization and continues through until the last Aztec Civilization across the globe.There is an assumption that they come from the Orion Belt which is a part of the Orion Constellation. This Orion Belt has 4 stars out of which 3 stars lay in the formation of 123 horizontally if you look in the night sky. Some of the great wonders of the Old World are built according to this 3 star formation as seen from earth.So it justifies that aliens were here who have guided us to build such wonders.How come ancient civilizations have built such enormous wonders across the globe ranging from South America to Egypt in exactly the same 123 formation horizontally is nobody could answer.It is up to the future generations to unlock this great mystery or if aliens arrive in the next 20 years or so...

The Orion Belt from Orion Constellation:

*i.imgur.com/uDhAMaG.jpg

*i.imgur.com/2E2rojy.png

Pyramid Complex from Mayan Civilization:

*i.imgur.com/2qi658o.jpg

Pyramid Complex from Egyptian Civilization:

*i.imgur.com/O4GxTCz.jpg

How 2 civilizations from different parts of the world built their pyramids in exactly the same formation which are 5000 years apart from each other and 5000 miles apart from each other ? Can anybody answer this ?

Tukka namm ki bhi koi cheej hoti he ! it doesn't means that they had any relation with organism living in Orion !

- - - Updated - - -

And anybody has any reason about the size of pyramid if they were to influence by the Orion so called Aliens then why did they made one pyramid smaller than other 2 ? the stars are of equal size !(AFAIK)

bavusani said:
Aliens existed from 10,000 years:
Aliens do exist. They are here from thousands of years since the Sumerian Civilization and continues through until the last Aztec Civilization across the globe.There is an assumption that they come from the Orion Belt which is a part of the Orion Constellation. This Orion Belt has 4 stars out of which 3 stars lay in the formation of 123 horizontally if you look in the night sky. Some of the great wonders of the Old World are built according to this 3 star formation as seen from earth.So it justifies that aliens were here who have guided us to build such wonders.How come ancient civilizations have built such enormous wonders across the globe ranging from South America to Egypt in exactly the same 123 formation horizontally is nobody could answer.It is up to the future generations to unlock this great mystery or if aliens arrive in the next 20 years or so...

The Orion Belt from Orion Constellation:

*i.imgur.com/uDhAMaG.jpg

*i.imgur.com/2E2rojy.png

Pyramid Complex from Mayan Civilization:

*i.imgur.com/2qi658o.jpg

Pyramid Complex from Egyptian Civilization:

*i.imgur.com/O4GxTCz.jpg

How 2 civilizations from different parts of the world built their pyramids in exactly the same formation which are 5000 years apart from each other and 5000 miles apart from each other ? Can anybody answer this ?

Seen from Ancient Aliens airing on History Channel?

nikhilsharma007nikx said:
You cant say life cant exist there in that kind of radiation as adaptation is always possible of if life wants to sustain it cant even in those adverse conditions ..... ever heard of bacteria surviving in extreme cold temperature ?

Tukka namm ki bhi koi cheej hoti he ! it doesn't means that they had any relation with organism living in Orion !

And anybody has any reason about the size of pyramid if they were to influence by the Orion so called Aliens then why did they made one pyramid smaller than other 2 ? the stars are of equal size !(AFAIK)

i SPECIFICALLY mentioned that life "AS WE KNOW IT" is not possible due to the radiation.
do you know what radiation does? it knocks out the atoms/molecules in the DNA and changes it shape. this leads to random mutations. if the child of an organism is born that is a TOTAL mutant, then the species wont survive at all. hence where there is radiation, LIFE AS WE KNOW IT will never be possible.

so, this "tukka", THREE civilizations had the SAME tukka over so many years??!?!!??!!? why not the big dipper? its similar in brightness to orion, and thanks to the pole star, very recognizible and important. why not make it in the big dipper shape?

It's not a fluke, they were trying to emulate the Orion constellation or the Orion's Belt asterism. Doesn't mean aliens came from there as movies would have you believe either. It just means that even in ancient times without telescopes and sciences to understand what they were seeing, men sat and stared at the night sky in awe. Most of us haven't seen anything remotely close to what they saw, because they had pitch blackness and no huge cities with light and smog pollution. The sky is awesome in those settings, and patterns are easily visible, and Orion's Belt visible for most of the year across the earth, and thus "special" in some way. Is it that hard to imagine that people would worship the unexplained? If those 3 stars were always in the sky, there must be gods watching us from there, and that's how many civilisations all thought those stars to be special. No mystery, just simple flaws in human psychology, which continue today as well.

In this world, anything which cant be explained is either termed as a Universal Law (a great scientist said this, forgot the name) OR people start to worship it.

By the way, I've too seen the clear night sky from my village decade ago. I still have that image in my memory perfectly.

And the sky you see from cities pales in comparison, right Piyush?

Raaabo said:
And the sky you see from cities pales in comparison, right Piyush?

Yes. Its barely visible here in metros because of pollution and too much light. But some isolated cities still can give the perfect night sky, in which we can count so many constellations with ease (and some basic knowledge ).

Piyush said:
In this world, anything which cant be explained is either termed as a Universal Law (a great scientist said this, forgot the name) OR people start to worship it.

i'd like to know which illiterate said this.

doomgiver said:
i'd like to know which illiterate said this.

That was just a pun from the scientist himself Doomie

*www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/opinion/sunday/is-the-universe-a-simulation.html

the Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom has argued that we are more likely to be in such a simulation than not. If such simulations are possible in theory, he reasons, then eventually humans will create them — presumably many of them. If this is so, in time there will be many more simulated worlds than nonsimulated ones. Statistically speaking, therefore, we are more likely to be living in a simulated world than the real one.

^^The Thirteenth Floor

bavusani said:
[/B] Can anybody answer this ?

u're right. the goa'uld are behind this.
sorry, just could not resist.

M

Re: Do u think UFOs exist

Tech Geek said:
Yes i believe they exist. May be Their technology is advanced(a lot) than ours

]

All i can think of is this
If
{ They exist And Their technology is advanced(a lot) than ours-->Think the Quality of Games Alien Gamers would be playing?? (Mind BLown)
}

^^Or may be we are one of the sims.

M

Scientists have found dead bacteria on a meteor that came from Mars, so life had existed there.

moniker said:
Scientists have found dead bacteria on a meteor that came from Mars, so life had existed there.

proof?

M

doomgiver said:
proof?

Washington, DC - Ever since scientists learned
that water once flowed on Mars, they've
wondered whether life might also have flourished on the apparently now-dead planet.
In the 16 August issue of Science, McKay et al.
report the first identification of organic compounds in a Martian meteorite. The
authors further suggest that these compounds,
in conjunction with other mineralogical
features observed in the rock, may be evidence
of ancient Martian microorganisms.
The paper's authors are David S. McKay and Everett K. Gibson, Jr., of NASA's Johnson
Space Center in Houston, TX; Kathie L.
Thomas-Keprta of Lockheed Martin in Houston, TX; Hojatollah Vali of McGill
University in Montreal, Quebec; Christopher S.
Romanek of the University of Georgia's Savannah River Ecology Laboratory in Aiken,
SC; and Simon J. Clemett, Xavier D.F. Chillier,
Claude R. Maechling, and Richard N. Zare of
Stanford University in Stanford, CA.
Organic (complex, carbon-based) molecules
are the requisite building blocks of life on Earth. The authors looked for signs of such
molecules and other mineralogical and
textural indications of past life within the pore space and fractures of meteorite Allan Hills
84001 (ALH84001), one of only 12 meteorites identified as having come from Mars.
ALH84001 is the oldest of the Martian dozen,
having crystallized from molten rock about
4.5 billion years ago, early in the planet's evolution, and it is the only Martian meteorite
to contain significant carbonate minerals. (The carbonates formed some time after the rock,
perhaps about 3.6 billion years ago.)
About 15 million years ago, a major asteroid impact on Mars threw ALH84001 into space,
and about 13,000 years ago it fell onto an ice field in Antarctica. ALH84001, which shows little evidence of terrestrial weathering, was
discovered by meteorite-hunting scientists in
1984 and only recently identified as Martian.
ALH84001 is riven with tiny fractures resulting
primarily from impacts that occurred while the
rock was on Mars. The secondary carbonates
formed along with some of these fractures. The
Science authors prepared thin sample sections
that included these pre-existing fractures, and found on their surfaces a clear and distinct
distribution of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), organic molecules containing multiple connected rings of carbon atoms - the first organic molecules ever seen in a Martian rock. A variety of contamination checks and control experiments indicated that the organic material was indigenous to the
rock and was not the result of terrestrial
contamination. For example, the authors noted that the concentration of PAHs
increases inward, whereas terrestrial contamination likely would have resulted in
more PAHs on the exterior of the rock.
The big question is: where did the PAHs come
from?
It is thought that PAHs can form one of two
ways: nonbiologi-cally, during early star formation; or biologically, through the activity
of bacteria or other living organisms, or their
degradation (fossilization). On Earth, PAHs are
abundant as fossil molecules in ancient sedimentary rocks, coal and petroleum, the
result of chemical changes that occurred to the remains of dead marine plankton and early
plant life. They also occur during partial
combustion, such as when a candle burns or
food is grilled.
To address the origin of these PAHs, the
authors examined the chemistry, mineralogy,
and texture of carbonates associated with
PAHs in the Martian meteorite. Under the
transmission electron microscope, the
carbonate globules were seen to contain fine-
grained magnetite and iron-sulfide particles.
From these and other analyses, the authors
developed a list of observations about the
carbonates and PAHs that, taken individually,
could be explained by nonbiological means.
However, "when considered collectively . . . we
conclude that [these phenomena] are evidence
for primitive life on early Mars." Some of their
observations are as follows:
The higher concentrations of PAHs were
found associated with the carbonates.
The carbonates formed within the rock
fissures, about 3.6 billion years ago, and
are younger than the rock itself.
The magnetite and iron-sulfide particles
inside the carbonate globules are
chemically, structurally, and
morphologically similar to magnetosome
particles produced by bacteria on Earth.
High-resolution scanning electron
microscopy revealed on the surface of the
carbonates small (100 nm) ovoids and
elongated features. Similar textures have
been found on the surface of calcite
concretions grown from Pleistocene
groundwater in southern Italy, which have
been interpreted as representing
nanobacteria.
Some earlier reports had suggested that the
temperature at which the ALH84001
carbonates formed was as high as 700
degrees C - much too hot for any kind of
life. However, the isotopic composition of
the carbonates, and the new data on the
magnetite and iron-sulfide particles, imply
a temperature range of 0 to 80 degrees C,
cool enough for life.
The magnetite - a mineral which contains
some ferric (Fe3+) iron, perhaps indicating
formation by oxidation (the addition of
oxygen) - and iron sulfide - a mineral that
can be formed by reduction (the loss of
oxygen) - were found in close proximity in
the Martian meteorite. On Earth, closely
associated mineralogical features involving
both oxidation and reduction are
characteristic of biological activity.
--American Association for the Advancement
of Science News Release

From NASA
*mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/martianchronicle/martianchron7/signs.html

A

Conspiracy theorists of the world unite !

moniker said:
From NASA
Signs of Past Life on Mars?

lol, so they found some "organic" compounds in some meteorites, and you take that as definite proof of ET life?

so, if i found a microchip in my garden, then it must mean that there is a supercomputer in my garden??

Our knowledge of the universe is very limited , imo it is idiotic to say that ET life doesn't exist in this vast universe. Granted there might not be organism's that are advanced like us but one simply cannot say that even microscopic et life doesn't exist when we know very little of the universe.

M

doomgiver said:
lol, so they found some "organic" compounds in some meteorites, and you take that as definite proof of ET life?

so, if i found a microchip in my garden, then it must mean that there is a supercomputer in my garden??

It's not "some" organic compound. The chemical structure of the remains on that rock are eerily similar to fossilised bacteria found in earth. It might not be taken as conclusive evidence but it's very, very intriguing.

M

The white house has now allocated funds to NASA to make possible the exploration of Europa, Jupiter's moon.

Europa is believed to have twice the amount of water that earth has and is the best bet for us to find extra terrestrial life.
*www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/030...h-ambitious-mission-to-icy-Jupiter-moon-video

europa. underground ocean. wow. i think it would be farfetched to assume underwater dinosaurs swimming there, however any kind of microscopic life will also be a great disocery

moniker said:
The white house has now allocated funds to NASA to make possible the exploration of Europa, Jupiter's moon.

Europa is believed to have twice the amount of water that earth has and is the best bet for us to find extra terrestrial life.
NASA hopes to launch ambitious mission to icy Jupiter moon (+video) - CSMonitor.com

Did someone watch Europa Report and allocated the funds after that ?

Haha after watching europa report they would stay away and not fund it. This should have been posted in astronomy thread?

Compiling list of reasons proving life is very common and superabundant, will post with references, but here is short list
- genetic complexity points to origin of life before earth was formed
- space dust being same size as dormant bacteria, dormant bacteria is everywhere in universe waiting to be seeded by comets and meteors on a suitable planet
- superhabitable epoch in early universe where every planet was in goldilocks zone
- earth being only average in terms of how conducive it is to life, there may be planets which are even more hospitable
- because of common origin, we cannot distinguish between alien and local life, aliens may already be among us
- finding complex proteins, amino acids in interstellar dust, pointing to origin of life in space without a host planet

moniker said:
It's not "some" organic compound. The chemical structure of the remains on that rock are eerily similar to fossilised bacteria found in earth. It might not be taken as conclusive evidence but it's very, very intriguing.

Anorion said:
Haha after watching europa report they would stay away and not fund it. This should have been posted in astronomy thread?

Compiling list of reasons proving life is very common and superabundant, will post with references, but here is short list
1- genetic complexity points to origin of life before earth was formed
2- space dust being same size as dormant bacteria, dormant bacteria is everywhere in universe waiting to be seeded by comets and meteors on a suitable planet
3- superhabitable epoch in early universe where every planet was in goldilocks zone
4- earth being only average in terms of how conducive it is to life, there may be planets which are even more hospitable
5- because of common origin, we cannot distinguish between alien and local life, aliens may already be among us
6- finding complex proteins, amino acids in interstellar dust, pointing to origin of life in space without a host planet

the ONE thing im scratching my head is: how the hell did protein/amino acid structures form in space anyway?
sure, randomness, but how did they survive in all those hostile conditions? just imagine how vast space is..... if you think the "air" around us is empty... then outer space is as empty compared to air as air is as empty compared to a dense block of steel.

that'd be one HELL of a discovery if different areas of space yeild similar kinds of proteins.

anorion, i'll take up a fw points :

2. thats not very logical... and space dust being so uncommon, it'd take obscene amounts of luck for this to happen.
3. again, where are those planets? also, define "early" universe. 5 billion years ago? the current main-sequence stars were gas clouds. there were only late stage type - 1 and 2 stars.
5. common origin =/= similarity. a dolphin and a shark have the same ancestors. they look kinda alike, but are radically different.
6. its not even possible. the solar wind/radiaion will kill literally everything.

doomgiver said:
6. its not even possible. the solar wind/radiaion will kill literally everything.

Even there's a bacteria (Deinococcus radiodurans) in our earth which can thrive among highly ionizing radiation that're lethal to humans - so that's possible.

Give me a day ill post links to each of those points they are all scientific theories backed up by data but from what i can remember
2. Size matches on nanometer scale and spectographic analysis of space dust - most space dust - is indistinguishable from dormant bacteria
3. Very early in the universe when there were only a handful of supernovae
5. Virii or bacteria, if they came from space, would we recognise them as extraterrestrial in origin if they were genetically similar to known life forms. By default we assume all life is from earth.
6. Deep space, away from solar systems, there are collosal clouds of organic molecules, including amino acids... And even food. If Clouds of free floating alcohol can be considered food.

Flash said:
Even there's a bacteria (Deinococcus radiodurans) in our earth which can thrive among highly ionizing radiation that're lethal to humans - so that's possible.

inter-stellar space has high energy particles, some whose magnitude is so high, that the enegry ranges are not found naturally on earth.

also, if space life is radiation resistant, then we must be radiation resistant too... because earth was seeded by these same bacteria, right?

but we are not radiation resistant, ergo, we did not evolve from space based microbes.

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Anorion said:
Give me a day ill post links to each of those points they are all scientific theories backed up by data but from what i can remember
2. Size matches on nanometer scale and spectographic analysis of space dust - most space dust - is indistinguishable from dormant bacteria
3. Very early in the universe when there were only a handful of supernovae
5. Virii or bacteria, if they came from space, would we recognise them as extraterrestrial in origin if they were genetically similar to known life forms. By default we assume all life is from earth.
6. Deep space, away from solar systems, there are collosal clouds of organic molecules, including amino acids... And even food. If Clouds of free floating alcohol can be considered food.

3 is absolutely wrong.
you cannot have a heavy metal planet without atleast a type 2 star. that early in the universe, there simply wasnt enough "heavy" matter to make a planet, mostly stuff till carbon/magnesium.

planets just donot form overnight. you need to have stars to go nova, stars that have heavy elements, like carbon/oxygen, which then seed the 2nd generation of stars, which take it up to iron/cobalt, which in turn go nova and seed 3rd gen stars, which form the restof the elements.

our sun and earth is the result multiple sucessive star-deaths. they all died so we could live.

ok here goes.

1. Moore's Law and the Origin of Life | MIT Technology Review

An extrapolation of the genetic complexity of organisms to earlier times suggests that life began before the Earth was formed.

*i.imgur.com/M81obHq.png

2. Journal of Cosmology

A wide range of spectroscopic data from the far infrared to the far ultraviolet points to the conclusion that life is a cosmic phenomenon. Although there is a lingering reluctance to accept this position, alternative explanations for the total data set are beginning to appear contrived.

more explanation from another source
Analysis of Interstellar Dust and Selected Resources. by Brig Klyce

But Hoyle and Wickramasinghe were not satisfied. In the middle 1970s, they turned their attention to an apparent anomaly in the spectrum. It had a low, broad "knee" centered at about 2.3 wavelengths per micrometer (the slight convexity on the slope at the left side of the graph above) (9). This spectral feature could be explained if the grains of dust were of a certain size, and translucent. After trying almost everything else first, in 1979, they looked at the spectrum for bacteria. Dried bacteria refract light as irregular hollow spheres, and their size range is appropriate. The match between the spectrum for dried bacteria (solid line) and the ones from the interstellar grains (dots, triangles and squares) was nearly perfect. Thinking without prejudice, Hoyle and Wickramasinghe concluded the grains probably were dried, frozen bacteria.

3. [1312.0613] The Habitable Epoch of the Early Universe

In the redshift range 100<(1+z)<137, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) had a temperature of 273-373K (0-100 degrees Celsius), allowing early rocky planets (if any existed) to have liquid water chemistry on their surface and be habitable, irrespective of their distance from a star. In the standard LCDM cosmology, the first star-forming halos within our Hubble volume started collapsing at these redshifts, allowing the chemistry of life to possibly begin when the Universe was merely 10-17 million years old. The possibility of life starting when the average matter density was a million times bigger than it is today argues against the anthropic explanation for the low value of the cosmological constant.

moar explanation
Life possible in the early Universe : Nature News & Comment

Loeb says that rocky planets could have existed at that time, in pockets of the Universe where matter was exceptionally dense, leading to the formation of massive, short-lived stars that would have enriched these pockets in the heavier elements needed to make planets. He suggests that there would have been a habitable epoch of 2 million or 3 million years during which all rocky planets would have been able to maintain liquid water, regardless of their distance from a star. “The whole Universe was once an incubator for life,” he says.

4. NASA Researchers: DNA Building Blocks Can Be Made in Space

NASA-funded researchers have evidence that some building blocks of DNA, the molecule that carries the genetic instructions for life, found in meteorites were likely created in space. The research gives support to the theory that a "kit" of ready-made parts created in space and delivered to Earth by meteorite and comet impacts assisted the origin of life.

"People have been discovering components of DNA in meteorites since the 1960's, but researchers were unsure whether they were really created in space or if instead they came from contamination by terrestrial life," said Dr. Michael Callahan of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. "For the first time, we have three lines of evidence that together give us confidence these DNA building blocks actually were created in space."

ISRO discovers extraterrestrial life

An ISRO research balloon found the three unknown species of bacteria which could mean that there is alien life in space.
Terrestrial microbes fight to survive at heights where the three species of bacteria have been discovered as ultraviolet rays kill most of them.
So are they really alien? Scientists say they could be mutant forms of earthly bacteria. Tossed into space by exploding volcanoes, they could have evolved to survive in a hostile world.

5. Could Some Alien Worlds Be More Habitable Than Earth?

In the journal Astrobiology, however, researchers René Heller of Canada's McMaster University and John Armstrong of Weber State University in Ogden, Utah, calls that idea too Earth-focused. "From a potpourri of habitable worlds that may exist, Earth might well turn out as one that is marginally habitable, even bizarre from a biocentric standpoint," they write.

Superhabitable Worlds

To be habitable, a world (planet or moon) does not need to be located in the stellar habitable zone (HZ), and worlds in the HZ are not necessarily habitable. Here, we illustrate how tidal heating can render terrestrial or icy worlds habitable beyond the stellar HZ. Scientists have developed a language that neglects the possible existence of worlds that offer more benign environments to life than Earth does. We call these objects "superhabitable" and discuss in which contexts this term could be used, that is to say, which worlds tend to be more habitable than Earth. In an appendix, we show why the principle of mediocracy cannot be used to logically explain why Earth should be a particularly habitable planet or why other inhabited worlds should be Earth-like.

6. Super-complex organic molecules found in interstellar space | Astronomy.com

'We have detected the presence of anthracene molecules in a dense cloud in the direction of the star Cernis 52 in Perseus, about 700 light years from the Sun,' explains Susana Iglesias Groth, the IAC researcher heading the study.

In her opinion, the next step is to investigate the presence of amino acids. Molecules like anthracene are prebiotic, so when they are subjected to ultraviolet radiation and combined with water and ammonia, they could produce amino acids and other compounds essential for the development of life

'Two years ago,' says Iglesias, 'we found proof of the existence of another organic molecule, naphthalene, in the same place, so everything indicates that we have discovered a star formation region rich in prebiotic chemistry.' Until now, anthracene had been detected only in meteorites and never in the interstellar medium. Oxidized forms of this molecule are common in living systems and are biochemically active. On our planet, oxidized anthracene is a basic component of aloe and has anti-inflammatory properties.

The new finding suggests that a good part of the key components in terrestrial prebiotic chemistry could be present in interstellar matter.

Sugar Found In Space: A Sign of Life?

Astronomers have made a sweet discovery: simple sugar molecules floating in the gas around a star some 400 light-years away, suggesting the possibility of life on other planets.

The discovery doesn't prove that life has developed elsewhere in the universe—but it implies that there is no reason it could not. It shows that the carbon-rich molecules that are the building blocks of life can be present even before planets have begun forming.

any more findings like this? even if a few of them are true, it could mean some interesting things

lets address some your points one by one :

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1. there is NO evidence that evolution behaves in "moore's law". do you see the "jumps" in the graph? well, a proper mathematician can twist them into literally anything.

unless the early stars had incredibly short lifespans, there simply wasnt enough heavy matter for life to form out of.

evolution basically happens in two ways :
1. gradual change : slowly evolove into new/different forms
2. rapid mutation : multiple "branches", most of which die out

the major diffrentiatin is the amount of different variations and the timescale.

1. is the "default" evolutionalrt path, its the usual "species evolve due to survival of fittest"
2. is when something calamitious happens, like an asteroid strike, or a volcano eruption. it just so totally changes the ecosystem/environment, that species are forced to undergo "rapid" mutations in order to succeed.

the most famous case was the moths in britain.

when britain was jsut getting into the industrial revolution, the moths in the countryside near london used to be light brown in color, matching the tree trunk color.
when the machines produced smoke, some of it clung to the tree trunks, making them blacker and blacker. as a result, the now light color moths showed up against the now dark bakground wnd were eatn by predators.
a small population of black moths began to emerge, which were able to hide on the black trunks.

now, this is an accurate portrayal of genetic history of earth :

> something evolves > more similar things evolve > some accident happens (meteor/volcano, etc) > many species wiped out > new species come out > new species overtake old species > old species dies > more stuff like new species keeps evolving > back to start.

this cycle of gradual change then doom then sudden evolution is quite common in earth's histroy.
hell, mammals were helped along in evolution by the asteroid strike that devastated the dinosaur ecosystem (they couldnt regulate temprature, unlike mammals) so the tiny puny rats who were hunted became the hunters.

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2. the entire argument depends on the fact that the size of the particles is similar to the size of microbes. other than that, the data is very interesting. really liked the comet vs culture curves.

3. it seems logical, i cant say much about this.

4. oh god, you HAD to post this. 40 klicks is NOT outer space. "space" begins around 130-200 klicks high. i want to find the bloody journalist who did this and wring his neck dry.

i agree, these findings are interesting, but keep in mind, most of this is conjecture and hypothesis.
i only contest your 1st and 4th point. rest of them are interesting.

Evolution looks intelligent but actually just a trial and error thing.

Faun said:
Evolution looks intelligent but actually just a trial and error thing.

We are not special. Life on Earth is just one probability.

dont agree with the space dust being bacteria thing. it seems a little fringe because of the language used.

Wow, at last found a thread of my type

Well I would like you to subscribe channels like vsauce, 1vertasium, minute physics and many more
Lot more info can be obtained from there

There is of curse possibility of alien life, just look at this video. You will get some idea how tiny we are..

cool topic. The universe is so huge, so there could be life somewhere out there I think.

doomgiver said:
so, if i found a microchip in my garden, then it must mean that there is a supercomputer in my garden??

Nope it means there's a microchip in your garden, and thus there may be more microchips.

Life is life, they don't have to wave to you when you get there to prove that they're living things.

A few billion years from now after humanity and all "life" (as you describe it) dies out (for whatever reason) and nature reclaims everything and makes Earth look like Mars, explorers would also only find bacterial fossils on the surface of Earth. You'd need to dig and scan thousands of sq-km of surface to find a large fossil that survived a planetary change of that magnitude.

Just microchips in a garden, again.

M

Unsealed in History channel showing around 11 PM MON-FRI those who are interested can watch it.

While various types of molecules have been detected in space, the kind of hydrogen-rich, carbon-bearing (organic) molecules that are most closely related to the ones necessary for life on Earth appear to be most plentiful in the gas clouds from which new stars are being formed. "Understanding the production of organic material at the early stages of star formation is critical to piecing together the gradual progression from simple molecules to potentially life-bearing chemistry," says Arnaud Belloche from the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy, the lead author of the paper.

Read more at: Interstellar molecules are branching out: Detection of iso-propyl cyanide with ALMA

one more piece of evidence that the chemistry required for life formation could be much more wide spread than previously thought

previous news articles in this line

(comets got the life creating molecules to earth) Deep Space Capable of Creating Linked Pairs of Amino Acids --Essential Building Blocks of Life
(amino acids found in interstellar medium) Amino acid found in deep space - 18 July 2002 - New Scientist
(Sugar molecules, and precursors for RNA in interstellar medium) Sugar Molecules Discovered Around Sun-Like Star | Search for Life & Alien Planets

Raaabo said:
Just microchips in a garden, again.

The problem is, nutcases and wackos interpret these findings in their own retarded way. They'll hail it as if aliens themselves have landed on the planet. :/

And you'll see this in tomorrow's news : "Definitive evidence of Jadoo found!!! Rudimentary carbon-nitrogen polymer chains discovered in outerspace."

Problem is, its quite easy to make similar compounds, hell, they did that in the 50's and were successful. Millerâ€“Urey experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You could make your own "Jadoos" too, its that simple.

EDIT : whenever i see news like "amino acids found in space!! basic building blocks of life exist in cold emptiness", i wanna slam my face against the wall in frustration. imho, cutting edge science should not be reported by mainstream media. hell, normal people shouldnt be exposed to cutting edge science. that stuff is too dangerous for regular folks to handle. the only source of science news should be scientific journals. if you cant comprehend that, then you;re prolly nor qualified to talk/comment about that stuff anyway.

^another one

Comet landing: Organic molecules detected by Philae

Yep they exist. Take me for example

doomgiver said:
normal people shouldnt be exposed to cutting edge science. that stuff is too dangerous for regular folks to handle. the only source of science news should be scientific journals. if you cant comprehend that, then you;re prolly nor qualified to talk/comment about that stuff anyway.

If that happened, none of us would be interested in science anymore and no one would become a scientist or choose science in school. In fact religion would win over again and we'd go back a few thousand years. Movies and media play their part in our evolution.

Raaabo said:
If that happened, none of us would be interested in science anymore and no one would become a scientist or choose science in school. In fact religion would win over again and we'd go back a few thousand years. Movies and media play their part in our evolution.

sorry about that, i was being sarcastic

I have a question - Does dreaming about your past life amount to time travel?

Ronnie012 said:
I have a question - Does dreaming about your past life amount to time travel?

How exactly do you know you were dreaming about your past life?

nope, it does not

setanjan123 said:
How exactly do you know you were dreaming about your past life?

I dreamed one day where I was a class two student. I was doing something naughty and the teacher took up her stick to beat me up but I woke up. It happened in reality.

P.s - At another instance I dreamed I was in the middle of a conversation with middle eastern looking people. Going by the lack of advanced instruments around, supposedly it was 12-13th century.

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Anorion said:
nope, it does not

Kindly explain how?

well, there is no traveling involved, you are already transported Im guessing.
or, was there traveling involved?

Anorion said:
well, there is no traveling involved, you are already transported Im guessing.
or, was there traveling involved?

Time travelling = Time transportation I suppose?

nope
time travel usually should have some device or car type thingy that takes you back and forth in time, and you are a person from now living in that part of the timeline. Your belief systems, mannerisms, behavior, language used will be anachronistic. Your actions may be inconsistent or incomprehensible to people from that time period.
dreaming about past life involves remembering/going through events as it happened to yourself but in that time. Your belief systems, mannerisms, behavior, language used will be not be anachronistic, and your actions will be consistent with that time period.
two different things
the dream is not a time capsule

^Agreed. Though while we are recalling, we are also revisiting aren't we?And revisiting amounts to reconnecting which means a certain connection occurs and through connections we can communicate! Also I think there is no hard bound rule that things or vehicles are required for time travel. If one can, one can/could travel through time without use of any vehicles/things.

that is astral projection, or a variation of it

^Thanks for the reply.

Actually, astral projection was what I was hinting at. (That is if we consider the concept of astral projection possible/realistic)

Ronnie012 said:
I dreamed one day where I was a class two student. I was doing something naughty and the teacher took up her stick to beat me up but I woke up. It happened in reality.

P.s - At another instance I dreamed I was in the middle of a conversation with middle eastern looking people. Going by the lack of advanced instruments around, supposedly it was 12-13th century.

Kindly explain how?

Kindly offtopic-
My office is hardly 20 minutes away I leave from home about 25 minutes before to reach office.
I dreamed one night that, I was going for one of the BE exam and the exam timing was 11AM at Kharghar (1:30 hours away from home). But I left from home at 10:35 with the habit of office distance.
what will you term this

Ronnie012 said:
I dreamed one day where I was a class two student. I was doing something naughty and the teacher took up her stick to beat me up but I woke up. It happened in reality.

P.s - At another instance I dreamed I was in the middle of a conversation with middle eastern looking people. Going by the lack of advanced instruments around, supposedly it was 12-13th century.

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Kindly explain how?

you've had dream(s) of the past occurrences, i've had of upcoming events; future travel, with a time-lag.

two days back, had a vivid dream, a VERY vivid dream, of leaving my body step-by-step, and the sensations involved in it, which am assuming i actually felt (?!). some entity was mentoring me in the process as far as i remember, but now can't recall who. saw the above posts and recalled about it. had one today morning too, but it was about something else, but again, vivid. only thing i can recall about it is now are a pair of 'boots'. damn it! everytime am subject to such a phenomenon, i decide to note it down in my diary, and then forget it, then decide to keep the diary at my bedside like Kekule and others, but then forget that as well! :-x

anikkket said:
Kindly offtopic-
My office is hardly 20 minutes away I leave from home about 25 minutes before to reach office.
I dreamed one night that, I was going for one of the BE exam and the exam timing was 11AM at Kharghar (1:30 hours away from home). But I left from home at 10:35 with the habit of office distance.
what will you term this

That was probably your brain warning you (or maybe your other self) against a course of action.

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GhorMaanas said:
you've had dream(s) of the past occurrences, i've had of upcoming events; future travel, with a time-lag.

two days back, had a vivid dream, a VERY vivid dream, of leaving my body step-by-step, and the sensations involved in it, which am assuming i actually felt (?!). some entity was mentoring me in the process as far as i remember, but now can't recall who. saw the above posts and recalled about it. had one today morning too, but it was about something else, but again, vivid. only thing i can recall about it is now are a pair of 'boots'. damn it! everytime am subject to such a phenomenon, i decide to note it down in my diary, and then forget it, then decide to keep the diary at my bedside like Kekule and others, but then forget that as well!

I wish I had vivid dreams like yours(specially the the body leaving-step by step one). I do have but very rarely

.

As also, I have since childhood had problem-solving dreams. As in, in real life if I could not find a solution to my problems, I had dreams where I saw myself solving those problems and woke up to indeed solve such problems!

Ronnie012 said:
I wish I had vivid dreams like yours(specially the the body leaving-step by step one). I do have but very rarely .

As also, I have since childhood had problem-solving dreams. As in, in real life if I could not find a solution to my problems, I had dreams where I saw myself solving those problems and woke up to indeed solve such problems!

A budding Kekule there!

This could happen during the twilight zone, ie, the zone in which you are not either fully awake or sleeping, but in a junction between them, and in a sort of 'limbo'; you or your mind may be 'hyper-aware' during that time, sensing/solving things that would be a little difficult for a fully awake or conscious mind to do. some researchers and 'mind-adventurists' have experimented with this, and even i do it quite some times, when some thing or event or question or anything is bothering me and i find it difficult to focus and find a solution to it, i just lie down for some minutes, relax, let the body just about slip into semi-sleep, and THERE the solution flashes in a strike! some or rather most times this happens if am not well-slept, and needless to say, when i subject myself to this, i get a solution as well as a refreshed mind alongwith it (i don't keep lying down after i get the solution, but quickly get up, as continuing lying down further defeats the purpose for me), which prior lying down used to be/feel hazy. can't term it a quick nap, but well short of it.

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on-topic - i get a lot of dreams about an alien 'invasion' (not exactly, but more like alien crafts and motherships making huge public appearances, instead of stealthy and bizarre appearances they've been known to make since atleast the late 1800s and 1897), or alien contact, new world order kind of scenario. just today when i dozed off in the noon i had one (a rather multi-storied craft populated by peculiar grays, trying to convey some messages/symbols. this was preceded by a quite bizarre situation i dreamt of, like a humanoid and hooded girl/women feeding and caressing a dog/pup, my friend, and who wasn't paying attention to me but was kind of enamoured by the girl, as if hypnotised. as soon as she revealed herself to me by lifting her black and white hood, the craft came in swooshing from above and behind me, like what we see in games & movies, and very unlike the 'falling leaf' motion attributed to them in reality, but this was a differently shaped craft as against the usual ones, and this was followed by the contact with the grays through the portholes of the craft).

it doesn't happen regularly, but mostly between long 'dry spells', and has happened many times over the past few years, so safe to say that i may be 'attuned' to such dreams. don't know what they may be trying to convey. this has been happening since long before i seriously started delving deeper into this subject of ETs/UTs and (allied) peculiar phenomena.

If Time is the 4th Dimension then Dreams could be a medium to travel through that dimension. Any takers?

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GhorMaanas said:
A budding Kekule there!

This could happen during the twilight zone, ie, the zone in which you are not either fully awake nor sleeping, but in a junction between them, and in a sort of 'limbo'; you or your mind may be 'hyper-aware' during that time, sensing/solving things that would be a little difficult for a fully awake or conscious mind to do. some researchers and 'mind-adventurists' have experimented with this, and even i do it quite some times, when some thing or event or question or anything is bothering me and i find it difficult to focus and find a solution to it, i just lie down for some minutes, relax, let the body just about slip into semi-sleep, and THERE the solution flashes in a strike! some or rather most times this happens if am not well-slept, and needless to say, when i subject myself to this, i get a solution as well as a refreshed mind alongwith it (i don't keep lying down after i get the solution, but quickly get up, as continuing lying down further defeats the purpose for me), which prior lying down used to be/feel hazy. can't term it a quick nap, but short of it.

Thanks for that wholesome explanation

. Apparently in school, whenever I used to be stuck up in solving mathematical problems, my dad used to advise me to sleep and that I could find the answers in my sleep

. I thought he was joking but I know better now.

Seemingly, the Mind and Dreams are interesting pieces of puzzles which when and if combined in the most suitable way brings forward interesting theories and perspectives. Movies like "Inception", "Limitless" have delved deep into this.

I think there should be a separate topic for Mind and Dreams!

Ronnie012 said:
If Time is the 4th Dimension then Dreams could be a medium to travel through that dimension. Any takers?

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Thanks for that wholesome explanation . Apparently in school, whenever I used to be stuck up in solving mathematical problems, my dad used to advise me to sleep and that I could find the answers in my sleep . I thought he was joking but I know better now.

Seemingly, the Mind and Dreams are interesting pieces of puzzles which when and if combined in the most suitable way brings forward interesting theories and perspectives. Movies like "Inception", "Limitless" have delved deep into this.

I think there should be a separate topic for Mind and Dreams!

don't mention! and i agree! plus, personally i have found the daytime/noon naps & their dreams to be far more 'beneficial' and revelatory, whenever they could be afforded, than the night/early morning ones, which many-a-times leave my mind and mood (highly) confused/soured/bitter/sulking! most pre-cognitive dreams i've had, if not all, were late-noon/daytime ones. over the past few years, i've also turned far more active mentally and physically after the sunset than during the day. no explanation. turned night owl gradually! O.O
perhaps what Gita tells --> the life & its values of a seeker turn & churn to/through a total reversal of those of a worldly man; that which is day for the latter is night for the former, and that which is night for the latter is day for the former. :mrgreen:

i suppose i haven't watched 'limitless'. thanks for the mention! will have to watch it now!

Ronnie012 said:
As also, I have since childhood had problem-solving dreams. As in, in real life if I could not find a solution to my problems, I had dreams where I saw myself solving those problems and woke up to indeed solve such problems!

Not surprised, that's one of the theories on the function of dreams. It's a type of unconscious thinking where we test out various possibilities and find one that works.

Ronnie012 said:
If Time is the 4th Dimension then Dreams could be a medium to travel through that dimension. Any takers?

Sure time is a 4th dimension, but it is not a spatial dimension, that allows you to travel back and forth at will. It is more of a direction for causality. At least that is what I believe. However, I think that while dreaming, we go from point to point with all the stuff in between rushed, so it does sort of feel like some kind of time dilation, as in Inception, or at the very least you can experience more happening in the same amount of time than you would have in real time.

Another movie that goes deep into the exploration of connections between dreams, consciousness and reality is Waking Life.

R

Anorion said:
I think that while dreaming, we go from point to point with all the stuff in between rushed, so it does sort of feel like some kind of time dilation

or we don't remember the things that happen in between

Another movie that goes deep into the exploration of connections between dreams, consciousness and reality is Waking Life.

any other movie like that ?

problem solving from dreams is a pretty common phenomenon

the invention of sewing machine happened because the inventor found his answer in his dream ..

and who can forget Tesla .. he is famous for conducting majority of his experiments in his mind with his extraordinary visualization skills ( almost at the level of lucid dreaming )

7 Great Examples of Scientific Discoveries Made in Dreams

&& figuring out the structure of benzene molecule by August Kekule

Anorion said:
&& figuring out the structure of benzene molecule by August Kekule

I agree with this, the human brain tries to solve "problems" during sleep, or rather, tries to order/reorder your thought process, resulting in "intuitive" leaps. the chemistry textbook, morrisson boyd, has an entire section devoted to this particular one.

i read some of the timetravelling replies in this thread. facepalmed hard.

to all of you, keep a dream diary. write down stuff which happens in your dreams. then ask yourself "have i ever been in such a situation before? did i ever see something liek this in a movie/tv/book?"

anikkket said:
Kindly offtopic-
My office is hardly 20 minutes away I leave from home about 25 minutes before to reach office.
I dreamed one night that, I was going for one of the BE exam and the exam timing was 11AM at Kharghar (1:30 hours away from home). But I left from home at 10:35 with the habit of office distance.
what will you term this

That's called "behavioral habit", or something like that.

doomgiver said:
to all of you, keep a dream diary. write down stuff which happens in your dreams. then ask yourself "have i ever been in such a situation before? did i ever see something liek this in a movie/tv/book?"

...and sometimes, the answer turns out to be in the affirmative, some other times, in the negative, a few other times, the memory is still fresh and the dream turns out to be a reality, and still at a few other times, the dream is relegated to the 'back bench', and is pulled again to the forefront in a flash when the corresponding scenario materialises. the last one happened to me 2 days back.
and then there are those times, when the mind simply keeps gnawing at possibly what could a very weird/complex/confusing dream just dreamt symbolically imply or indicate towards.

Potential Signs of Ancient Life in Mars Rover Photos - Astrobiology Magazine
someone took a close look at martian photos, and found features that are very similar to features on earth caused by microbes

GhorMaanas said:
don't mention! and i agree! plus, personally i have found the daytime/noon naps & their dreams to be far more 'beneficial' and revelatory, whenever they could be afforded, than the night/early morning ones, which many-a-times leave my mind and mood (highly) confused/soured/bitter/sulking! most pre-cognitive dreams i've had, if not all, were late-noon/daytime ones. over the past few years, i've also turned far more active mentally and physically after the sunset than during the day. no explanation. turned night owl gradually! O.O
perhaps what Gita tells --> the life & its values of a seeker turn & churn to/through a total reversal of those of a worldly man; that which is day for the latter is night for the former, and that which is night for the latter is day for the former.

i suppose i haven't watched 'limitless'. thanks for the mention! will have to watch it now!

Lol

I hardly remember any afternoon dreams(coz i hardly slept during daytime during last few years)

Sometimes I've had dreams which were far too realistic such that when I woke up, I coudn't believe I was in the real world.

"Limitless" though isn't about dreams...it's more about the mind.

yes, that happens.
and now i recall again that i forgot to watch 'limitless', and so now should watch before i forget it again.

Anorion said:
Not surprised, that's one of the theories on the function of dreams. It's a type of unconscious thinking where we test out various possibilities and find one that works.

Sure time is a 4th dimension, but it is not a spatial dimension, that allows you to travel back and forth at will. It is more of a direction for causality. At least that is what I believe. However, I think that while dreaming, we go from point to point with all the stuff in between rushed, so it does sort of feel like some kind of time dilation, as in Inception, or at the very least you can experience more happening in the same amount of time than you would have in real time.

Another movie that goes deep into the exploration of connections between dreams, consciousness and reality is Waking Life.

Spatial could have different definitions. I might be wrong, but I think we can even consider time as a spatial dimension.

P.s. Though not related to Time Travel, another movie worth watching is - "In Time"

- - - Updated - - -

GhorMaanas said:
yes, that happens.
and now i recall again that i forgot to watch 'limitless', and so now should watch before i forget it again.

^its a good watch!

Ronnie012 said:
Spatial could have different definitions. I might be wrong, but I think we can even consider time as a spatial dimension.

No, you can't consider time a spatial dimension. You can consider it as the 4th dimension (temporal), but not spatial as we can't move anywhere you want in time.

Sometimes, I have dreams and days, weeks or even months later they come true. I even behave/proceed in the situation similar to what I did in the dream. This deja-vu acts like a spoiler and I am left confused.

There was this dream, where I was watching anime as usual while eating dinner. I knock down the water bottle kept by my side but since it wasn't open, nothing gets spoiled. 2 weeks later, there I was, actually watching the same anime and everything happened just like it happened in the dream. Inception style 'Dream within a Dream' has also happened once to me a lot before I saw Inception.

Do you think its possible that the mind is capable of linking us with our past/future selves and maybe tries to alert us of any dangers?

^^ this was what i meant when i wrote earlier that sometimes our memories are still fresh (that is, they are not entirely relegated to the 'back bench' or forgotten) and what we dreamt of comes true, sometimes very soon too.
and yes, what you asked happens a lot, and is far more common than one would think. am personally aware of such incidents. also, there's a small, should i say 'club'/association of people at Pune, i think started by a Parsi gentleman years back, which invites people to share their persistent dreams and try to decipher what they could be hinting at. this gentleman had the idea to start the club after one personal experience, when in a dream, he was told by his recently expired father to immediately get a health check-up done as a dreaded disease was creeping up on him. he did so, and was diagnosed with early stages of i think skin cancer (i don't remember if his father warned him of cancer directly or not, but the impetus was strong and very clear). though such dreams may not be always associated with an impending danger; most of the times, these are just about seemingly ordinary events, and you won't know that they were 'prophetic' until & unless the event happens and you realise the connection in a flash.

I once had inception dream
I woke as usually got out of bed, and started to watch tv in another room.
Then again I woke again releasing it was a dream and fall out of bed.
Then again I woke up releasing It was a dream again. I went to washroom finding Lion there.
Then again I woke at last in reality( I guess

)

abhigeek said:
I once had inception dream
I woke as usually got out of bed, and started to watch tv in another room.
Then again I woke again releasing it was a dream and fall out of bed.
Then again I woke up releasing It was a dream again. I went to washroom finding Lion there.
Then again I woke at last in reality( I guess )

Do you think you have really awaken? :lol:

Vyom said:
Do you think you have really awaken?

That day I had whole mind-f**ked. And headache for whole day

abhigeek said:
That day I had whole mind-f**ked. And headache for whole day

are you sure you weren't hung up or high that day and those were simple hallucinations?

SaiyanGoku said:
are you sure you weren't hung up or high that day and those were simple hallucinations?

No It was a dream, I had in 2010

abhigeek said:
I once had inception dream
I woke as usually got out of bed, and started to watch tv in another room.
Then again I woke again releasing it was a dream and fall out of bed.
Then again I woke up releasing It was a dream again. I went to washroom finding Lion there.
Then again I woke at last in reality( I guess )

This also means that you watched TV for weeks, took days to fall out of bed and hours to find and face lion.
Wow.

A

Did anyone seen UFO, alien in Mumbai or near it???

abhigeek said:
I once had inception dream
I woke as usually got out of bed, and started to watch tv in another room.
Then again I woke again releasing it was a dream and fall out of bed.
Then again I woke up releasing It was a dream again. I went to washroom finding Lion there.
Then again I woke at last in reality( I guess )

Wow

Last night, I had a dream that I was on the moon and taking pics of The Earth using my FZ70.

Lol when I didn't have a smartphone I was pretty obsessed about owning one. So I frequently dreamt that I had somehow gotten hold of a smartphone. The funny thing was trying to hold on to the smartphone as I realized it was dream. I somehow thought I could pull the phone with me from the dream to reality. And when I woke up a crushing disappointment hit me when I realized that I don't own that smartphone after all. Lol

amit.tiger12 said:
Did anyone seen UFO, alien in Mumbai or near it???

i don't think that you would get an answer in the affirmative to that question here. there have been some sightings of usual nature in and around the city (abnormal lights in the skies, first kind contacts, and possibly some fourth kinds, though few-to-rare, and probably not in the recent times), about which could be found on sites of groups monitoring the sightings & their reports. i have witnessed an anomaly in the sky once in Nagpur (late evening), many years back, and IIRC, atleast one of the newspapers of the city had reported it. however, i at times do gaze at the sky intently looking to find an aberration, but have found only aeroplanes, much to my chagrin! only if people spent more of their leisure time looking above at the sky than down on their phone-screens, may be we would've more reports flowing in, possibly making their way more into the mainstream news-reporting too (they have at times been reported).

A

GhorMaanas said:
i don't think that you would get an answer in the affirmative to that question here. there have been some sightings of usual nature in and around the city (abnormal lights in the skies, first kind contacts, and possibly some fourth kinds, though few-to-rare, and probably not in the recent times), about which could be found on sites of groups monitoring the sightings & their reports. i have witnessed an anomaly in the sky once in Nagpur (late evening), many years back, and IIRC, atleast one of the newspapers of the city had reported it. however, i at times do gaze at the sky intently looking to find an aberration, but have found only aeroplanes, much to my chagrin! only if people spent more of their leisure time looking above at the sky than down on their phone-screens, may be we would've more reports flowing in, possibly making their way more into the mainstream news-reporting too (they have at times been reported).

Do you know any legit site/blog/group which monitors these sightings, because one of the article was on this type (who monitors this sightings) I read in Mumbai Mirror. Do you know any similar site/blog..??

amit.tiger12 said:
Do you know any legit site/blog/group which monitors these sightings, because one of the article was on this type (who monitors this sightings) I read in Mumbai Mirror. Do you know any similar site/blog..??

sorry, don't know about any India-based group monitoring and keeping/maintaining a record of sightings & reports here, except IPS (Indian Paranormal Society)/GRIP, which i don't know how much time and efforts do they dedicate towards this, but int'l groups like MUFON, UFOInfo, UFO-hunters, ufocasebook, etc. and individuals like Albert Rosales, George Filer and a few more catalogue, keep and maintain records & journals of sightings & reports for public access, and some have case-reports from atleast the latter half of the 1800s.

could you please share any link to that Mumbai Mirror article you read, or a picture/clipping of that article, or time/date around which it was published or even reproduce whatever you can from memory on what it was about?

A

GhorMaanas said:
could you please share any link to that Mumbai Mirror article you read, or a picture/clipping of that article, or time/date around which it was published or even reproduce whatever you can from memory on what it was about?

I will search whole mumbai mirror site and post here.. wait... it's last year.. from July to today.. I will find it..
they mentioned several names, besides their studies job they do support these group.. they get certificate from that... one boy doing engineering and he got the certificate he reported more than 10 (may be 100 can't remember now) reports from india, he went there and look for that sightings... something like that mentioned..
I actually cropped image from E-paper on mobile.. but forgot to upload it to my dropbox paper cuttings...
I will again search it...
Anyone from mumbai has read this, please check for me...

Hey got the link...
If you can search for Epaper please add this... epaper provides good reading like real news paper..

UFO hunters - Mumbai Mirror

amit.tiger12 said:
I will search whole mumbai mirror site and post here.. wait... it's last year.. from July to today.. I will find it..
they mentioned several names, besides their studies job they do support these group.. they get certificate from that... one boy doing engineering and he got the certificate he reported more than 10 (may be 100 can't remember now) reports from india, he went there and look for that sightings... something like that mentioned..
I actually cropped image from E-paper on mobile.. but forgot to upload it to my dropbox paper cuttings...
I will again search it...
Anyone from mumbai has read this, please check for me...

Hey got the link...
If you can search for Epaper please add this... epaper provides good reading like real news paper..

UFO hunters - Mumbai Mirror

thanks for the link! so they are affiliated to MUFON.

A

GhorMaanas said:
thanks for the link! so they are affiliated to MUFON.

thanks.. I also got my paper cutting...

The Times Group

see the paper cutting below..
*www.digit.in/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15154&d=1422367404
View attachment 15154

amit.tiger12 said:
thanks.. I also got my paper cutting...
The Times Group

see the paper cutting below..
*www.digit.in/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15154&d=1422367404
View attachment 15154

sorry, can't view it. the attachment is showing as broken. but nevermind. we now have link to the webpage of the article. thanks for putting efforts!

A

GhorMaanas said:
sorry, can't view it. the attachment is showing as broken. but nevermind. we now have link to the webpage of the article. thanks for putting efforts!

wc always.. i think digit's upload section does not work..

amit.tiger12 said:
wc always.. i think digit's upload section does not work..

correct.

[1412.6230] Using the Inclinations of Kepler Systems to Prioritize New Titius-Bode-Based Exoplanet Predictions

We analyze a sample of multiple-exoplanet systems which contain at least 3 transiting planets detected by the Kepler mission ("Kepler multiples"). We use a generalized Titius-Bode relation to predict the periods of 228 additional planets in 151 of these Kepler multiples. These Titius-Bode-based predictions suggest that there are, on average, ~2 planets in the habitable zone of each star.

good to know this. we'll get to know more over the years, with some changes in what we know today, and some new things, but perhaps not with surety anytime soon.

OTOH, i don't understand why agencies are spending so much money and time on exploring possibilities of life on other planets, ie, if the focus is on finding answers to the UFO-phenomenon. now NASA is planning for a mission to Europa to find possibility of life (as, according to them, Europa's oceans are twice as deep as Earth's oceans, and they may hold clue/vital signs of life). in the context of UFO-sightings and entity-contacts, there seems to be a high possibility & probability that what we've been encountering is not an extra-terrestrial phenomenon (howmuchever the 'messengers' & contactees may seem to cry), but rather arising from our very own home, or even ultra-terrestrial in nature. the entities have been very deceptive about revealing their origins, witnessed doing crazy things, and such tactics are understandable if one wants to keep a subject perennially confused, and keep the scientific community at bay from attempting to exert serious effort in studying the phenomena and just keep rebuffing the topic, which they are anyway famous for doing to issues that don't conform to the contemporary dimensions of their 'box'.

....what

Inceptionist said:
....what

wat.... indeed. :crazy:

i know some of you may haven't had the exposure to the more not-that-forthcoming details of the subject of UFOs and the 'alien' presence, apart from what the science-fiction halo lends to it and the orthodox/dogma-based stuff. what i wrote earlier will hence feel beyond conventional and crazy. i knew beforehand and anticipated a few raised eyebrows in response. the gist of what i wrote above earlier was more-or-less that what many people have been thinking (or actually, could well be led to think) that we have an ET presence could very well be a UT or a domestic presence, as these 'aliens' have been deceiving humans about their origins since atleast late 1890s (more formal reporting done in that period as against the earlier decades), and acting as if to manufacture/cultivate a collective thought-process & pattern in humans gradually, and surreptitiously proceed on with their agenda (first befriend them, then take them in your trust, and gradually confuse & use them), from behind a thin and tattered veil (ie, they are & have been actively trying to remain unidentifiable), ensuring that they are not taken seriously by the mainstream human academicians & scientists, whereas in the meanwhile, the humans keep looking forward to welcome their 'space brothers'. in that light, if our space-expeditions have one of their main aims to look for the origins of these entities in the outer space, it may be futile.

though nevermind. carry on.