Doctors in India? What is your views?

It might look like just another debate, but it isn't. It happens to me, and so there is no i-heard-so event in this post.

It was 2003, and i had severe stomach pain, all of a sudden, and i never ever got sick like that till that day. I went to nearest doctor, and after lot of tests, he confirm that it is stomach ulcer. I was quite surprised, because i have very good food habit and i used to eat in time. So i took pills(later i realize those are only painkillers :shock:

) given by him, and it was ok, though still less painful. And i used to get this pain very often say once in a month, so we went to another doctor, i told him i got some kinda lump in lower-stomach and he again made it clear that it is stomach ulcer.

Then it was fine from 2005 and i was doing good. Then again, at 2009, i got severe stomach pain, for which i admitted in big clinic in Chennai and to my surprise they ran lot of tests, again i mentioned that lump thing to the chief doctor and even he tell the same thing, Stomach ulcer. In these times, the pain is excruciating. I still remember i didn't sleep straight 48 hours, because if i lay on bed, pain throttles from 0-100 immediately so i stayed up and sit down for 2 days. After a week, it was ok and my life becomes normal.

Later 2011, December, after a week from my marriage, i got the stomach pain, and went to see a doctor. Immediately after looking at the lump, he told me it is Hernia. And i was shocked to hear that and want to confirm. So went to specialist and he confirmed the same. And i underwent surgery within next 3 days, and the chief doctor was asking me, how long you have this, i said almost 8 years, and he was like WTF! Yes, he even scolded me for being so careless.

The big thing is, while surgery there was some complications but overall it went fine. Although, if i do the surgery a year or so later, i would have end up removing my spermatic cord :shock:

, which means i might end up being impotent :shock:

.

Can you imagine, the pain i have gone through all these years, is because of some dumb-a$$ doctors(not one, 4 doctors :evil:

) carelessness?

1. If the doctors at my place have diagnosed this earlier, i wouldn't end up with surgery complications, and if i did the surgery back in 2004, it would have been quite easy for me and doctors too.
2. Why would doctors not even looking at lump area and w/o looking they are telling me, it was stomach ulcer. Are they even real doctors?
3. Such an reputed hospital in Chennai missed out such big lump? Are they fu(king cheating patients?

What is your view regarding the doctors in India?

AFAIK, 50% of them are fake. And most of them only know few things and they tell patients to follow certain things, which is not even needed for them.

Finally, if a doctor is telling w/o even looking at reports or at the wound/lump/whatever-it-is, just run from that place and look in some other hospitals. Also, even some big hospital chains are doing this, is kinda shocked :shock:

Please beware of these small clinics and don't go to these small clinics, where the doctors treat you like i-don't-care-attitude.

Did you go to a Clinic or a Hospital in the first time?

^^ First time, Clinic, after that hospital, every time. And the one i am talking about in Chennai is big hospital.

Its really sad to see you suffering like this. Your post makes me remember satyamev jayate's doctors' episode. just mugging up doesn't makes good doctors. I bet the doctors you faced were the ones who got their degrees on the basis of donation. Sometimes it may be the case of your bad luck of misdiagnosis though.

PS: Being born in a doctor's family makes me feel so relieved.

^^ Thanks and yes. Why do i suffer and go through pain, when there is a remedy? One more big thing is, if they don't have idea of something, they have to recommend us the specialist, so we can consult with them. Isn't that good, from patients POV and also from Doctors POV?

Also, think if the last doctor i went also told me the same thing! I would end up removing my spermatic cord! It scary even to think about that.

And i am not talking about town/village, it is a city(Madurai, Tamil Nadu) and people around these places come to my city for treatment. Why there is no strict standards for clinics/hospitals? Nowadays you can see may clinics/hospitals, where there is not enough facility to mention it as hospital, but still they run. It's such a shame and doctor's are like bees, they are everywhere but few of them sting us, badly.

Its not necessary that doctors of only big cities are good.

I'll give you an example. There's a doctor in my city, a friend of my father. He recently bought kind of very expensive machine to treat stones. This facility is only second in our state. thing to notice is only lower middle class patients come for that treatment. Reason as my father says, people have such mindset that if they're paying 2x amount for same treatment in a relatively big city, and 10x amount in metros, they think that they'll get better treatment which is not at all true. And citing same reason he didn't accept my proposal of starting a hospital.

I thought Madurai hospital is very good. I heard thats the second hospital of asia having all medical equipment. And i heard Chennai General Hospital is also good

dashing.sujay said:
Its not necessary that doctors of only big cities are good.

I'll give you an example. There's a doctor in my city, a friend of my father. He recently bought kind of very expensive machine to treat stones. This facility is only second in our state. thing to notice is only lower middle class patients come for that treatment. Reason as my father says, people have such mindset that if they're paying 2x amount for same treatment in a relatively big city, and 10x amount in metros, they think that they'll get better treatment which is not at all true. And citing same reason he didn't accept my proposal of starting a hospital.

I never said, hospital in cities are good, i was telling why hospitals are bad in cities?

Swapnil26sps said:
I thought Madurai hospital is very good. I heard thats the second hospital of asia having all medical equipment. And i heard Chennai General Hospital is also good

This is not case with all. Still that hospital is big in South Chennai and i didn't expected a crappy treatment at a premium. Apart from money, i was tored apart in name of tests, and gone through severe pain for around a decade(yes, 8 years). Why wouldn't a single doctor, tell me that it is hernia and not fu(king stomach ulcer..!

furious_gamer said:
I never said, hospital in cities are good, i was telling why hospitals are bad in cities?

furious_gamer said:
And i am not talking about town/
village, it is a city(Madurai, Tamil
Nadu) and people around these
places come to my city for
treatment

Didn't that meant what I replied?

S

doctors in big hospitals are worse then small city.. atleast they give you some time and try to understand the problem, listen to you.. in big hospital they just want to quickly see 10 patient in half an hour and go..

furious_gamer said:
I Then again, at 2009, i got severe stomach pain, for which i admitted in big clinic in Chennai and to my surprise they ran lot of tests, again i mentioned that lump thing to the chief doctor and even he tell the same thing, Stomach ulcer.

Don't worry about the consequences, name it please.

In my experience, Doctors from small cities are much better (more caring) than in big cities. I have been visiting this particular ENT doctor who is just so good. He is from AIIMS and runs a clinic in Doctors Colony, Visakhapatnam. He doesn't care about money at all, he caters to mostly poor patient and when asked why he doesn't take the fee on time, he says that he has enough and doesn't need to much money.

Now a doctor like this is idea, unfortunately not everyone is like that. Some people are just good by nature.

One of my family members went through an operation at a hospital in Vizag. There was a post operative infection which caused lots of complications. It was their fault. This is not the 15th century to catch an infection on the operating table. I was aghast at such mistakes and also the managements indifference to the incident.

The problem is people do not complain, like we didn't. I was pretty young and this happened before I undertook MBBS myself so I was unaware of what the specifics were. But today I know it was gross negligence and should have been properly followed through.

What you should do is, take all the receipts and test reports and lodge a complain with the hospital for medical negligence. Or if not legally, atleast let them know you are unhappy with the mistake and sent them a written complaint or maybe go to their google review site etc and post your experience there.

Had it happened today, I would have compiled the entire report over the years and sent a copy to the hospital and asked them if I should legally pursue the matter.

Having said all that, Medical services are far better in India than in any other country. You should know why many Indian and foreigners come to India for their health checkups and surgeries beyond it being cheap. Of course the rich can go to UK etc.

India is like one of the only countries where doctor like the example I have given you can be found. In most other countries it is seen like any other profession and is heavily capitalised.

^^ Well, i cannot go legally, because i don't have those reports/bills/etc with me(my mistake, i know). For the clinic in my city, i will pay a visit and let him know what he did to me. How much pain had i gone through.

And after this incident, whenever i have a chance to meet any doctors, i will ask them lot of question, and then hear what they say, and call my friend(she is a doctor in Chennai) to discuss about this, and make it clear. And for medicines, i always discuss with her and it seems, most of the doctors prescribe costly medicine where cheap and good alternatives are there. For ex, (i forgot the name) i used to buy some diabetes tablet for my mom which is so damn costly, then my friend told me some other brand, which is 3 times cheaper compared to what that doctor prescribed.

After then, i stopped taking my mom to that guy and to some good hospital where things are good. They take good care of my mom, they listen to patients, and they don't suggest some pills just because they get some commission. Things are scary in the current scenario and people need to be aware of things that they are going through. Otherwise, no matter who, they will rip you apart and take your money.

^ Those are generic medicines and are cheaper than non-generic counterparts to such a level which many won't believe. For a medicine costing in lakhs, one can get the same genetic version in a mere few thousands.

^^ Yes, a year ago i spent 1.8-2k every month for my mom's diabetes tablets every month, and now, after we consult with the present consultant, it was reduced to 700 buck per month. I mean WTF! I save easily around 1k. But the thing is, people doesn't know these things and it will take decades to realize IMO.

H

2 incidents come to mind as I read this :

incident 1 :
I had a nasty fall down the stairs (around 7-8) a few years back and while I was busy trying to protect my fragile phone(moto razer

) , I ended up twisting my knee in a bad way. It was paining a lot for like a couple of days so I decided that see a doctor about it. Now I am no light weight and the doctor took one look at my knee and told me it is due to my weight and I should reduce it. So I began jogging,playing etc all the while ignoring the pain. Some days it would become so bad that I was unable to get out of bed. This went on for a while and another doctor and a physio therapist later, it was still the same. By then I was walking with a pronounced limp as I was not able to support myself on that leg ( it was so bad that it was impossible to put my pants on standing on one leg). Now around a couple of years after this, I had to go to Germany for some work related stuff and there I had the misfortune of falling down while attempting to ski. The doctors there did scans on my leg,took a few xrays and told me that there was a ligament tear and the cratilage under my knee has been crushed. I was blaming myself for attempting to ski when he informed me that this was not a fresh injury and has been there for a while and gradually worsened over the years. On returning to India , I had 2 choices : 2 months of intense ayurvedic treatment or a painful surgery. I opted for the ayurvedic treatment, and it was the time when I rediscovered what pain was. Thankfully at the end of it all, I can walk without a limp now and can run a little but when its cold outside or when I stress myself a little, the little pain that shoots up reminds me of how I was left almost a cripple by some incompetent doctors whose blind prejudice prevented them from even carefully checking my leg and blamed it all on my weight.

Incident 2 :
This happened to my mom last year. She was feeling a bit under the weather and so decided to visit a doctor who stays nearby. The doctor assured us it was nothing but normal fever and prescribed a few medicines for her. Now they were pretty damn costly antibiotics but then I was under the impression that they would help in curing her faster. Instead, around 6 hours after she started taking the medication, my mom began to have chills, she began vomition and was unable to even stand for a while. We called up a family friend who is a doctor and she informed us that these medicines are super strong and are not supposed to be given like this. She asked us to stick with normal paracetamol and once the effects of the old medicine was over, a couple of paracetamols and she was much much better.

Well it is no secret from the above incidents where my sentiments lie in this matter. I have great respects for people in the medical profession because they studied hard to get to where they are, but these sort of idiots are the ones tarnishing the names of all the good doctors out there.

^^ Well, your first incident was same as mine. Both would have ended up horribly, if not diagnosed/treated at right time and by luck, it was fine. But all these is because of mindsets of doctors and their ignorance.

I just read your first post dude.. Thats even enraged me !.
I don't know about other districts but I will speak facts about doctors in Tamil Nadu (Ofcourse in my perspective):
1. As you said there are 50% good ones.
2. These good ones got their seat purely in merit basis/ took mbbs out of passion and service motive
3. Hope you know about hefty donations they pay to medical colleges here. So, you know the obvious outcome.
4. Most of the doctors coming out do not really want to become doctors. (its their parents)
5. Have seen a couple of good doctors in CMC,Vellore. But its hard to get a appointment.
6. Last week, I crashed my bike on a auto and went to cmc clinic, there they keep novice doctors to treat locals, do you know what i got? just a ointment for scratches and a painkiller.
7. AFAIK, the more probablity is that if you are *very* rich, you become a doctor in TN.
8. India has lost another good doctor because of reservation systems.

Even doctors in government hospitals have separate clinics to earn money and needless to say, they are referring patients to that clinic when we go to govt. hospitals!.

OFFTOPIC: My friend took his dog to a govt. hospital and it seems they are refusing a particular vaccine and asking to take it in a private hospital. and he claims that its some kind of a deal. WTH?

S

sometimes i understand better then sm stupid doctor when I study and read from internet

Anish said:
I just read your first post dude.. Thats even enraged me !.
I don't know about other districts but I will speak facts about doctors in Tamil Nadu (Ofcourse in my perspective):
1. As you said there are 50% good ones.
2. These good ones got their seat purely in merit basis/ took mbbs out of passion and service motive
3. Hope you know about hefty donations they pay to medical colleges here. So, you know the obvious outcome.
4. Most of the doctors coming out do not really want to become doctors. (its their parents)
5. Have seen a couple of good doctors in CMC,Vellore. But its hard to get a appointment.
6. Last week, I crashed my bike on a auto and went to cmc clinic, there they keep novice doctors to treat locals, do you know what i got? just a ointment for scratches and a painkiller.
7. AFAIK, the more probablity is that if you are *very* rich, you become a doctor in TN.
8. India has lost another good doctor because of reservation systems.

Even doctors in government hospitals have separate clinics to earn money and needless to say, they are referring patients to that clinic when we go to govt. hospitals!.

OFFTOPIC: My friend took his dog to a govt. hospital and it seems they are refusing a particular vaccine and asking to take it in a private hospital. and he claims that its some kind of a deal. WTH?

That is sick! By the way you explain things, make me ask one question, Are u from TN?

And finding good doctors is difficult and getting appointment is much difficult...

swordfish said:
sometimes i understand better then sm stupid doctor when I study and read from internet

lol.... yes, even now i understand some basic things from internet so when i go to doctor, i will ask some question and he will reply, by looking at me like i am villain. Most of the doctors dont prefer to answer patients questions.

lol.... yes, even now i understand some basic things from internet so when i go to doctor, i will ask some question and he will reply, by looking at me like i am villain. Most of the doctors dont prefer to answer patients questions.

Nice thing, I always ask some questions from doctors while they write the prescription.

@OP: I am also from TN. Almost All doctors in my locality don't know what is meant by Autism and Dyslexia. They have never heard of the terms like AS and NDD.

I see multiple debates on this thread.
Debate #1: Medical service is one of the most noble professions. However, with rising population and greed, some crooks have tainted this profession. Some doctors(with probably fake degree) do everything to make money out of people's misery. This is very unfortunate. I personally know a Sr. doctor who works in a government hospital in delhi. His wife keeps complaining that he gives away more than half of his salary to poor patients.

Debate #2: City Vs Rural: It all depends what you call a "good treatment". For some people comfort and luxury is important. For some people neatness and hygiene plays an important role. Some people perceive it as experienced doctors. Some take it as hi tech facilities. It is also to be noted that specialized medical care is usually better in larger cities. Cities have a large number of patients, which means more experienced doctors, better facility to deal with unusual cases, insurance coverage etc.

^^ Well, i grown up in city and to be frank, your so called experience doctor is the one, who misguided me. I am not complaining all doctors out there. The one who did the surgery to me, was very experienced, yet he is polite, give me all answers i need and he is good. On top, he didn't charged me extra, because there was some complications in the surgery.

The thing is, some doctors are simply rude and adamant, and they give pills without even thoroughly checking the patients, and just aimed to put money in their pockets. This is the one i am pointing out.

furious_gamer said:
your so called experience doctor is the one, who misguided me.

I used the term "experienced doctors" in context with people's perception of a good medical institution. I never said it was a fact. It is what some people believe. Please read it again.

some of them dont diagnose properly,like they give you painkillers and say ''lets see what happens next week"

Shah said:
@OP: I am also from TN. Almost All doctors in my locality don't know what is meant by Autism and Dyslexia. They have never heard of the terms like AS and NDD.

Really!!I am a doctor myself and even first year medical students are aware of Autism.
Dyslexia is something different altogether though.
BTW,AS can mean a lot of things in medicine.
@op,I am really sorry hearing about your prolonged suffering.
I presume it was inguinal hernia you were suffering from,but as you mentioned,symptoms started more than 5 year ago....and you never noticed a lump over your groin area over these years is very unusual.
Inguinal hernia is usually painless swelling with a sense of heaviness,it is only painful when gut loop is obstructed from the tight neck of the hernial sac.And in that situation vomiting is very common.
I have not seen you personally but from your description I sincerely doubt you had hernia 5 years ago.

Nanducob said:
some of them dont diagnose properly,like they give you painkillers and say ''lets see what happens next week"

Do not make stupid comments like this.
Do you want to undertake a series of investigations(costing more than 30/40k) for common cold/flu/myalgia or things like that?
Even in the most advanced countries presumptive diagnosis and empirical therapy is perfectly agreeable.

club_pranay said:
I used the term "experienced doctors" in context with people's perception of a good medical institution. I never said it was a fact. It is what some people believe. Please read it again.

Sadly in modern world,physical examination is a dying art and no. of physicians who still prefer it over sophisticated( and obscenely expensive)investigations is decreasing at an alarming rate.
Sadly the patients and their family members are responsible for this along with a lot of websites with faulty information.
When I was in clinics,a young patient's father did not allow me to give his son(he was sufferung from pyogenic meningitis)a couple of shots of steroids before antibiotics.
He read in internet that steroids are bad and can cause depressed immunity and his son already had CNS infection.
The young man died after 3 days.

red dragon said:
Really!!I am a doctor myself and even first year medical students are aware of Autism.
Dyslexia is something different altogether though.
BTW,AS can mean a lot of things in medicine.
@op,I am really sorry hearing about your prolonged suffering.
I presume it was inguinal hernia you were suffering from,but as you mentioned,symptoms started more than 5 year ago....and you never noticed a lump over your groin area over these years is very unusual.
Inguinal hernia is usually painless swelling with a sense of heaviness,it is only painful when gut loop is obstructed from the tight neck of the hernial sac.And in that situation vomiting is very common.
I have not seen you personally but from your description I sincerely doubt you had hernia 5 years ago.

I still remember the day i found out that bug lump in my groin area, for which i went to hospital and doctor told me "It's stomach ulcer" after looking at that lump. And the pain is not regular, but when it comes, it will be like anything i have ever felt. The doctors who operated my hernia told me it should be more than five years because we can see fat surrounding the hernia is huge. I have seen the fat after the operation myself, and it is of size of a rat (No exaggeration). So i don't think i have had hernia recently.

red dragon said:
Do not make stupid comments like this.
Do you want to undertake a series of investigations(costing more than 30/40k) for common cold/flu/myalgia or things like that?
Even in the most advanced countries presumptive diagnosis and empirical therapy is perfectly agreeable.

im no doctor,but i dont know any tests for cold which costs 30k.This thread wouldve never existed if the 'Doctor' wouldnt have actually diagnosed Hernia as stomach ulcer.

red dragon said:
Really!!I am a doctor myself and even first year medical students are aware of Autism.
Dyslexia is something different altogether though.
BTW,AS can mean a lot of things in medicine.

If the first year medical students in your locality knows about Autism, It doesn't mean that doctors in other locality too know about it. And by AS, I meant Asperger's Syndrome.

Nanducob said:
im no doctor,but i dont know any tests for cold which costs 30k.This thread wouldve never existed if the 'Doctor' wouldnt have actually diagnosed Hernia as stomach ulcer.

I meant a series of tests.
Do you know how much does it cost something as simple as contrast MR or CT in private hospitals?
@op,if the doctor had seen the lump and called it gastric ulcer,something was seriously wrong with him,he needed treatment more than you did.

Shah said:
If the first year medical students in your locality knows about Autism, It doesn't mean that doctors in other locality too know about it. And by AS, I meant Asperger's Syndrome.

Asperger's is included in Autism spectrum disorder.
Doctors in general refers to Aortic Stenosis as AS.
It is not about locality.Any first year medical graduate in India knows about it.
Yes,students from private medical colleges in India or doing MBBS from Russia,China etc lacks basic knowledge .

red dragon said:
Sadly in modern world,physical examination is a dying art and no. of physicians who still prefer it over sophisticated( and obscenely expensive)investigations is decreasing at an alarming rate.

That is a favorite quote frequently used by senior doctors who undoubtedly are great at diagnosing things with their physical examination skills than their current younger colleagues. Flashback to few centuries back, docs even used to taste urine of patients to see whether they had sugar in it!

Things have evolved now. A doctor cannot deny patient few basic tests just because things are absolutely normal on physical examination. Common entities like Diabetes and Thyroid take 5-15 years to develop symptoms. For example, if a doctor denies blood sugar test to a 35-40 year old patient whose parents, brothers, sisters are diabetic, just because physically he is absolutely fine, then it is over dependance on his physical examination skills. By the time he develops signs detectable on physical examination, significant damage to his organs has already taken place. This is just a single example.

Malpractice is there. There are good docs and bad docs. So best way out is to trust your instincts. Go to the doctor in whom you have faith. Thankfully there still are lots of them out there.

Most of the doctor-patient mishaps happen due to miscommunication. Some very good doctors are bad at communicating things in a simpler way and vice versa.

Lump in groin area and stomach ulcer thing doesn't really make sense. I guess its miscommunication again.

Things like Asperger's Syndrome are complex neuropsychiatric entities. They are not easy to diagnose out of the blue (even by best of the doctors) just because Shahrukh had one in the movie.

They say, Google is an unlicensed medical practitioner. You are most likely to get 90% wrong information when it comes to medical search by a non medical person. In medicine, 1+1 is not always equal to 2. There are very frequent exceptions. So it all boils down to a doctor's experience. Sometimes, it makes sense to trust the doc blindly, rather than suspecting each and everything and cross checking on the internet.

This is what I mean:

*farm9.staticflickr.com/8231/8419791784_f8ab7b631b_o.jpg

It all depends on the trust and doctor-patient relationship. If you smell something fishy, change the doctor. There are upteen options available.

Having said that, its not wrong on a part of a doctor to think of earning money. After all he has a family to look after. If others can think of profit, even doctor has a right to do so. But yes, it always makes sense to refer a case to an appropriate colleague if one is clueless about something.

^^+1000 to that!
Brilliant post.

^^^ I am still trying to edit and add to it.... too many interesting and debatable things in this thread

Well, look who we have here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/buying-ad...one-following-specifications.html#post1829325

Furious_gamer, this is probably your doctor

tkin said:
Well, look who we have here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/buying-ad...one-following-specifications.html#post1829325

Furious_gamer, this is probably your doctor

I guess a doctor can even operate a hernia with Lenovo p700i.

a_medico said:
I guess a doctor can even operate a hernia with Lenovo p700i.

It could have a laser torch for all I know

a_medico said:
I guess a doctor can even operate a hernia with Lenovo p700i.

And make surgical cuts with Macbook Air.

@a_medico

Having said that, its not wrong on a part of a doctor to think of earning money. After all he has a family to look after. If others can think of profit, even doctor has a right to do so. But yes, it always makes sense to refer a case to an appropriate colleague if one is clueless about something.

That is my point all these time. The two doctors i met, were not even bothered to check the lump, and they will take a look for second or two and jump to conclusion and that too stomach ulcer! WTF!!! :shock:

.

A

For all of those talking about "donations", let me tell you this has nothing to do with anything. Donation brings just as many good students as it does bad students. I have been one of the best students in my engineering college going out (in terms of marks, as well as knowledge). If you have seen my posts, you also know I am generally someone who knows what I am talking about. I went in through donation - for all the praise I get about being knowledgeable, hardworking and sincere, I couldn't make it on my merit.

What does this mean? It means one simple thing - the problem is that the education system in India simply fails to acquire the correct candidates for the job. Half the people are simply unfit in spite of entrance tests (both engineering and medical). That is the truth. The education is also heavily based on theoretical things, there is a focus on trying to be a "jack of all trades" rather than candidate's specific focus areas, a lack of flexibility, etc.

So yes. About 50% of India's doctors and engineers are pure quack. That is the result of the unscientific and horrible selection system

But there are good students and good doctors too. It has nothing to do with donation. It has to do with finding the right candidate who puts in the dedication, effort and understanding of the value of his/her job to society - this is what makes a good doctor, engineer or scientists - NOT knowledge of x or y subject or dreams of big job with high salary (which is why many people are joining these courses anyway).

When India understands this, it will be better for it. Otherwise, same old, same old

I will again say that there are not many people who have been scoring the lowest of the low marks as well as the highest of the high marks throughout their academic career - most are consistent in academics. As a result, they may not properly understand why marks does not necessarily equate to merit. I have been in both places, and I know much better about these things. Donation, though conceptually evil, gives an opportunity to those that the system failed. It is important that people remember this.

EDIT: It is also a good idea to check and see the symptoms yourself a little. Some books you can read on your own. Doctors have a lot on their plate, and though someone may like to work in oncology, he or she may not necessarily be able to due to various reasons. They may thus be ill-prepared and given a department they never considered ideal for them. They are human, they too forget and make mistakes sometimes. Some are just not fit for the job like I said earlier.

Read up, keep a few books with you - especially things like ayurveda. Check the symptoms: Know the chemistry of the microbes responsible. Then you can self-diagnose to a large extent. I am usually able to see what's wrong whenever I have an issue. The rest comes down to discussion with the doctor to find the best medicine. When it is a more complicated matter, that's when advanced supervision is required.

If I can do it, so can you

^^ Well, eh, another good point? But i don't think this is not what we discussed. It's all about quality of doctors.

A

furious_gamer said:
^^ Well, eh, another good point? But i don't think this is not what we discussed. It's all about quality of doctors.

Answered that too, like I said about half of them are not very good at their job at all

. Tried to focus a bit on the reasons for it, that's all

.

I've personally had both good and bad experience with doctors - and, these days, since I've become pretty good at self-diagnosis, it's become a lot easier as my own description gives the doctor enough clues to go on to make a mostly accurate diagnosis

Example: Had a bad case of ear infection a while back. Doctor suspected fungal infection, I suspected bacterial based on the smell of the discharge from the ear. Turned out, it was both. It got cured, as I used medicine that was anti-fungal and anti-bacterial in the same formulation, instead of the purely anti-fungal drug that was prescribed to me

(BTW. Not a good experience. Almost total ear blockage. A lot of debris had to be vacuum pumped out - mainly flakes of dead skin as a result of fungal infection)

AcceleratorX said:
Had a bad case of ear infection a while back. Doctor suspected fungal infection, I suspected bacterial based on the smell of the discharge from the ear. Turned out, it was both. It got cured, as I used medicine that was anti-fungal and anti-bacterial in the same formulation, instead of the purely anti-fungal drug that was prescribed to me

Looks like you also took medicine as one of the subjects in engineering. By the way, I am hoping you don't have a family history of diabetes and have checked your sugars too rule out diabetes, where such infections are common.

A

a_medico said:
Looks like you also took medicine as one of the subjects in engineering. By the way, I am hoping you don't have a family history of diabetes and have checked your sugars too rule out diabetes, where such infections are common.

The only person in my family to have diabetes was my grandmother from maternal side. Nobody else has had it. Sugars are fine. If this was a jab at my knowledge: two things. I was very good at Biology (board exams as well as CET). This means I could have easily done pharmacy or medicine, I chose not to. I am still fairly conversant with most topics relevant to general biology (not specific stuff like neurochemistry etc. - now that is too complicated for me). Of course, you need to be good at understanding cell biology, physiology and chemistry, or else one must not even try and see why one is not feeling well

Second thing - as both infections did not subside at the same time, a later visit to the doctor did confirm there was bacterial infection there as well. That's why I said "turned out it was both". Though, discharges can easily throw you off I guess. That was a good guess on my part which led to a faster recovery

I didn't take medicine as part of engineering, but I am one of those guys who likes to read a little bit of every science

. As such I have the respect both ways, that's why my post did not outright attack doctors.

A good career path for me would have been bio-medical engineering, but unfortunately I have been actively discouraged by factors beyond my control from going down that path. Hopefully, one day I'll be able to pursue it further

Hey, I'm not saying my knowledge is perfect - I didn't get the fungal infection part of it right, see? That's why I say that diagnosis can be difficult, each individual is a different case - in medicine, there is no "generic case" so to speak. So I don't blame the doctor at all there!

Also, do not mock others' knowledge - appreciate that people are trying to learn outside the system. Arrogance is never good for any society or person! It is not the degree that gives you knowledge.

^^ My apologies if my comments hurt you. Wasn't the intention.

I

furious_gamer said:
It might look like just another debate, but it isn't. It happens to me, and so there is no i-heard-so event in this post.

It was 2003, and i had severe stomach pain, all of a sudden, and i never ever got sick like that till that day. I went to nearest doctor, and after lot of tests, he confirm that it is stomach ulcer. I was quite surprised, because i have very good food habit and i used to eat in time. So i took pills(later i realize those are only painkillers ) given by him, and it was ok, though still less painful. And i used to get this pain very often say once in a month, so we went to another doctor, i told him i got some kinda lump in lower-stomach and he again made it clear that it is stomach ulcer.

Then it was fine from 2005 and i was doing good. Then again, at 2009, i got severe stomach pain, for which i admitted in big clinic in Chennai and to my surprise they ran lot of tests, again i mentioned that lump thing to the chief doctor and even he tell the same thing, Stomach ulcer. In these times, the pain is excruciating. I still remember i didn't sleep straight 48 hours, because if i lay on bed, pain throttles from 0-100 immediately so i stayed up and sit down for 2 days. After a week, it was ok and my life becomes normal.

Later 2011, December, after a week from my marriage, i got the stomach pain, and went to see a doctor. Immediately after looking at the lump, he told me it is Hernia. And i was shocked to hear that and want to confirm. So went to specialist and he confirmed the same. And i underwent surgery within next 3 days, and the chief doctor was asking me, how long you have this, i said almost 8 years, and he was like WTF! Yes, he even scolded me for being so careless.

The big thing is, while surgery there was some complications but overall it went fine. Although, if i do the surgery a year or so later, i would have end up removing my spermatic cord , which means i might end up being impotent .

Can you imagine, the pain i have gone through all these years, is because of some dumb-a$$ doctors(not one, 4 doctors ) carelessness?

1. If the doctors at my place have diagnosed this earlier, i wouldn't end up with surgery complications, and if i did the surgery back in 2004, it would have been quite easy for me and doctors too.
2. Why would doctors not even looking at lump area and w/o looking they are telling me, it was stomach ulcer. Are they even real doctors?
3. Such an reputed hospital in Chennai missed out such big lump? Are they fu(king cheating patients?

What is your view regarding the doctors in India?

AFAIK, 50% of them are fake. And most of them only know few things and they tell patients to follow certain things, which is not even needed for them.

Finally, if a doctor is telling w/o even looking at reports or at the wound/lump/whatever-it-is, just run from that place and look in some other hospitals. Also, even some big hospital chains are doing this, is kinda shocked Please beware of these small clinics and don't go to these small clinics, where the doctors treat you like i-don't-care-attitude.

Did you actually call up the previous doctors to let them know? You really should and give them a piece of your mind. Dont let people like these get away lightly. God knows who else they are treating. If you can, complain to higher authorities that certify their license to practice

- - - Updated - - -

AcceleratorX said:
For all of those talking about "donations", let me tell you this has nothing to do with anything. Donation brings just as many good students as it does bad students. I have been one of the best students in my engineering college going out (in terms of marks, as well as knowledge). If you have seen my posts, you also know I am generally someone who knows what I am talking about. I went in through donation - for all the praise I get about being knowledgeable, hardworking and sincere, I couldn't make it on my merit.

What does this mean? It means one simple thing - the problem is that the education system in India simply fails to acquire the correct candidates for the job. Half the people are simply unfit in spite of entrance tests (both engineering and medical). That is the truth. The education is also heavily based on theoretical things, there is a focus on trying to be a "jack of all trades" rather than candidate's specific focus areas, a lack of flexibility, etc.

So yes. About 50% of India's doctors and engineers are pure quack. That is the result of the unscientific and horrible selection system

But there are good students and good doctors too. It has nothing to do with donation. It has to do with finding the right candidate who puts in the dedication, effort and understanding of the value of his/her job to society - this is what makes a good doctor, engineer or scientists - NOT knowledge of x or y subject or dreams of big job with high salary (which is why many people are joining these courses anyway).

When India understands this, it will be better for it. Otherwise, same old, same old

I will again say that there are not many people who have been scoring the lowest of the low marks as well as the highest of the high marks throughout their academic career - most are consistent in academics. As a result, they may not properly understand why marks does not necessarily equate to merit. I have been in both places, and I know much better about these things. Donation, though conceptually evil, gives an opportunity to those that the system failed. It is important that people remember this.

EDIT: It is also a good idea to check and see the symptoms yourself a little. Some books you can read on your own. Doctors have a lot on their plate, and though someone may like to work in oncology, he or she may not necessarily be able to due to various reasons. They may thus be ill-prepared and given a department they never considered ideal for them. They are human, they too forget and make mistakes sometimes. Some are just not fit for the job like I said earlier.

Read up, keep a few books with you - especially things like ayurveda. Check the symptoms: Know the chemistry of the microbes responsible. Then you can self-diagnose to a large extent. I am usually able to see what's wrong whenever I have an issue. The rest comes down to discussion with the doctor to find the best medicine. When it is a more complicated matter, that's when advanced supervision is required.

If I can do it, so can you

That is such absolute bull!

Just because you can do it, you cant expect everyone to have the same skill, ability and access to resources to do the same. Moreover, by saying that, you completely ignore the trust placed by the patient in the doctor who maybe undermining it. You also ignore systemic issues like corruption of the profession, the role of variable salaries based on the number of patients seen per day as opposed to fixed salaries, pressures and 'seducements' from healthcare companies to push their products to patients and changes in the treatment of the disease itself, to name a few. By saying 'If I can do it, so can you' you expect everyone to be aware of such issues and that is just living in LALAland!

A

isaac12345 said:
Just because you can do it, you cant expect everyone to have the same skill, ability and access to resources to do the same.

I get told this a lot, but then....most of the people telling me this have had much better marks in 12th and 10th than I did.....Then why is it that an "inferior" student is able to do it? Systemic failure, like I said.

isaac12345 said:
Moreover, by saying that, you completely ignore the trust placed by the patient in the doctor who maybe undermining it.

Doctors are people too. It's important to use your common sense. If the foundations are weak or a pillar is cracked it's wise to get it fixed before taking an engineer's opinion. That's how it is.

isaac12345 said:
You also ignore systemic issues like corruption of the profession, the role of variable salaries based on the number of patients seen per day as opposed to fixed salaries, pressures and 'seducements' from healthcare companies to push their products to patients and changes in the treatment of the disease itself, to name a few.

Corruption is the talk of the day in India. You just gotta stay on your toes. I don't see anything wrong with variable salaries on a heuristic level: More work, more pay seems fine to me.

As for evil big pharma, there are cases where medicines are exaggerated but these don't seem to be the general talk of the day. At the end of the day most docs push a company's products and most companies manufacture all standard medicines.

isaac12345 said:
That is such absolute bull!

Nothing I say about our education and job system is bull. Rather, the stone cold truth.

I

AcceleratorX said:
I get told this a lot, but then....most of the people telling me this have had much better marks in 12th and 10th than I did.....Then why is it that an "inferior" student is able to do it? Systemic failure, like I said.

Doctors are people too. It's important to use your common sense. If the foundations are weak or a pillar is cracked it's wise to get it fixed before taking an engineer's opinion. That's how it is.

Corruption is the talk of the day in India. You just gotta stay on your toes. I don't see anything wrong with variable salaries on a heuristic level: More work, more pay seems fine to me.

As for evil big pharma, there are cases where medicines are exaggerated but these don't seem to be the general talk of the day. At the end of the day most docs push a company's products and most companies manufacture all standard medicines.

Nothing I say about our education and job system is bull. Rather, the stone cold truth.

Huh??! You are not making much coherent sense. What's your point? Is it that people 'superior' to you were wrong or that you are ok with doctors pushing a company's products? You make so many points that you end up making none

Just read the OP. Sorry for hijacking.

We have to place so much trust in the doctors that it is scary if they f*** up a diagnosis.

I got a recent experience about this. My roommate's younger brother (about 20-21 years of age now) used to get headaches and sore throats for many years and their doctor just gave him painkillers or cough syrups, etc. This went on for many years until they discovered recently that it was 3rd stage cancer. If he had been diagnosed early, treatment would have been simpler. However, now his treatment is much more difficult and expensive.

This incident prompted me to get Health Insurance since my roommate did not have and now they are struggling financially to fund his brother's treatment.

A

isaac12345 said:
Is it that people 'superior' to you were wrong

It's an insinuation that Indian administrative system is lined up to ensure that mediocre people have a greater probability of bagging the top posts (as we can easily see in the ground reality). This phenomenon thus permeates to every possible field including medicine, resulting in all the issues described in this thread. That being said, there are just as many good doctors as not-so-good ones, so it's up to you to find them (well, just like any service provider anyway!).

isaac12345 said:
that you are ok with doctors pushing a company's products?

It's a free market and we are a capitalistic government so it is within ethics to promote a certain company's products and a consumer selects that which he considers best i.e. if a consumer has an idea which drug is made by which companies, he might be able to get them cheaper, or an equivalent product, etc.

It is not necessary you HAVE to use the CIPLA tablets that the doctor prescribed you know

isaac12345 said:
You make so many points that you end up making none

Every point is interrelated and nothing will change unless ALL the issues are solved together. I would advise you to think about these things in a little more depth.

I

AcceleratorX said:
It's a free market and we are a capitalistic government so it is within ethics to promote a certain company's products and a consumer selects that which he considers best i.e. if a consumer has an idea which drug is made by which companies, he might be able to get them cheaper, or an equivalent product, etc.

It is not necessary you HAVE to use the CIPLA tablets that the doctor prescribed you know

If you believe that, then you must also(by logical extension of the underlying economic theory) believe that the so-called consumer knows everything that is to know about the product she is buying right? If you dont, then your above statement doesn't hold.

AcceleratorX said:
Every point is interrelated and nothing will change unless ALL the issues are solved together. I would advise you to think about these things in a little more depth.

Before advising me to think about it more deeply, you would be better off to atleast write in a manner that ties all these interrelated issues together. That's why I said that you make so many points that you end up making none.

OP situation is similar to the Movie "Gabbar is Back"

Some Doctors are good and some are bad...and it is upto the patient to know which is what..though very hard to tell but still visit the popular & well known (praised by locals)
otherwise visiting a new Doctor and you will be always in a doubt of good or bad.

there are FAKE doctors and appending a M.B.B.S or MDS etc is not hard in a name.

Just adding a few points to think after going through all posts above:

1. If a doctor earns money based on his skills and effort/duration dedicated to acquiring those skills, is it wrong? Is a doctor who charges very low fees the only "good" one?

2. Some say the doctor gave many medicines not needed while the other says he gave only painkillers and ointment. While one is accusing of giving too much medicines the other is not happy with what he got. So what to do now?

3. If you advise tests then it becomes like the doctor is simply advising unnecessary tests. If no tests are advised and tomorrow something develops you say doctor did not do any tests and is negligent.

4. You go to a doctor with some condition which had just begun. He is unable to say what it is because it is too early. You do not get well with the medicines given for relief only and then you do not go back when better instead go to a different one. He is able to diagnose because now it is fully developed. You blame the first doctor for not giving you the diagnosis. (as if by seeing a few foundation stones in a construction site anyone would be able to say that 5th floor of that building will have Pizza Hut and will serve vegetarian pizzas.)

5. An 80 year old alcoholic with liver failure, kidney failure gets admitted with severe life threatening infections and dies inspite of treatment. Next morning you beat the doctor who sat throughout the nite trying to save patient and make him sick enough to get admitted to the same ICU. Main reason probably to avoid paying the bill.

6. Just because a thing you read up on the internet appears to match with what you feel does not mean that it is exactly the thing that is making you sick. A crow will sit on an old tree and simultaneously the tree falls. Did the tree fall because the crow sat on it?

7. No medicine / treatment can be guaranteed to be a success with zero sjde effects. It is a fact of life. Accept it and understand it first before blaming the doctor.

8. While generic medicines could be cheaper, in many cases there is a difference in the effectiveness. The molecule may be same but the vehicle/impurities etc also matter.

9. In private practice a doctor's earning will depend on his success. So he cannot write low quality medicines because then patients will not come back to him.

There are many things in this matter which are not obvious from one side alone.

I am sorry for the suffering of OP because he seems to have genuinely encountered some incompetence. But that does not mean everyone is out to get you.

I

sling-shot said:
Just adding a few points to think after going through all posts above:

1. If a doctor earns money based on his skills and effort/duration dedicated to acquiring those skills, is it wrong? Is a doctor who charges very low fees the only "good" one?

2. Some say the doctor gave many medicines not needed while the other says he gave only painkillers and ointment. While one is accusing of giving too much medicines the other is not happy with what he got. So what to do now?

3. If you advise tests then it becomes like the doctor is simply advising unnecessary tests. If no tests are advised and tomorrow something develops you say doctor did not do any tests and is negligent.

4. You go to a doctor with some condition which had just begun. He is unable to say what it is because it is too early. You do not get well with the medicines given for relief only and then you do not go back when better instead go to a different one. He is able to diagnose because now it is fully developed. You blame the first doctor for not giving you the diagnosis. (as if by seeing a few foundation stones in a construction site anyone would be able to say that 5th floor of that building will have Pizza Hut and will serve vegetarian pizzas.)

5. An 80 year old alcoholic with liver failure, kidney failure gets admitted with severe life threatening infections and dies inspite of treatment. Next morning you beat the doctor who sat throughout the nite trying to save patient and make him sick enough to get admitted to the same ICU. Main reason probably to avoid paying the bill.

6. Just because a thing you read up on the internet appears to match with what you feel does not mean that it is exactly the thing that is making you sick. A crow will sit on an old tree and simultaneously the tree falls. Did the tree fall because the crow sat on it?

7. No medicine / treatment can be guaranteed to be a success with zero sjde effects. It is a fact of life. Accept it and understand it first before blaming the doctor.

8. While generic medicines could be cheaper, in many cases there is a difference in the effectiveness. The molecule may be same but the vehicle/impurities etc also matter.

9. In private practice a doctor's earning will depend on his success. So he cannot write low quality medicines because then patients will not come back to him.

There are many things in this matter which are not obvious from one side alone.

I am sorry for the suffering of OP because he seems to have genuinely encountered some incompetence. But that does not mean everyone is out to get you.

You only look at one-to-one micro issues. You should also look at systemic issues. For example, the incentives for doctors when in a public healthcare system as opposed to a private one.

sling-shot said:
Just adding a few points to think after going through all posts above:

1. If a doctor earns money based on his skills and effort/duration dedicated to acquiring those skills, is it wrong? Is a doctor who charges very low fees the only "good" one?

2. Some say the doctor gave many medicines not needed while the other says he gave only painkillers and ointment. While one is accusing of giving too much medicines the other is not happy with what he got. So what to do now?

3. If you advise tests then it becomes like the doctor is simply advising unnecessary tests. If no tests are advised and tomorrow something develops you say doctor did not do any tests and is negligent.

4. You go to a doctor with some condition which had just begun. He is unable to say what it is because it is too early. You do not get well with the medicines given for relief only and then you do not go back when better instead go to a different one. He is able to diagnose because now it is fully developed. You blame the first doctor for not giving you the diagnosis. (as if by seeing a few foundation stones in a construction site anyone would be able to say that 5th floor of that building will have Pizza Hut and will serve vegetarian pizzas.)

5. An 80 year old alcoholic with liver failure, kidney failure gets admitted with severe life threatening infections and dies inspite of treatment. Next morning you beat the doctor who sat throughout the nite trying to save patient and make him sick enough to get admitted to the same ICU. Main reason probably to avoid paying the bill.

6. Just because a thing you read up on the internet appears to match with what you feel does not mean that it is exactly the thing that is making you sick. A crow will sit on an old tree and simultaneously the tree falls. Did the tree fall because the crow sat on it?

7. No medicine / treatment can be guaranteed to be a success with zero sjde effects. It is a fact of life. Accept it and understand it first before blaming the doctor.

8. While generic medicines could be cheaper, in many cases there is a difference in the effectiveness. The molecule may be same but the vehicle/impurities etc also matter.

9. In private practice a doctor's earning will depend on his success. So he cannot write low quality medicines because then patients will not come back to him.

There are many things in this matter which are not obvious from one side alone.

I am sorry for the suffering of OP because he seems to have genuinely encountered some incompetence. But that does not mean everyone is out to get you.

wow that was good.

I thought I had wasted a lot of time and energy in composing and typing that one

Good to know at least 2 people read it.

sling-shot said:
I thought I had wasted a lot of time and energy in composing and typing that one
Good to know at least 2 people read it.

Make it 3. Good one!

some doctors in India pay crores of money to get a college seat and again some more to become a doc.

after building a hospital, their main aim will be to get the investment in the form of running a hospital.

I had to go to a doc and he gave me tablets which were not available any where and were about to expire in 2 months. local chemists say no one prescribes it.
so i am still using it and i was given that tab because there was ample of stock of that tab with that doc.

it was a small hospital and the doc came in an auto....so i see why...he might be dreaming to buy an Audi or a BMW soon.

and my problem is not solved still, (its a anti histamine tab) and the doc has no explanation why i have got the problem.

[MENTION=322990]jimyhinss[/MENTION] You have nothing better to do? If this is your job, please consider switching to a better field.