Does India need a revolution?

I'm now formally sick of India's current socio-political status, with all its stupidity, corruption, fake "India Shining" daydreams, humans rights issues, irresponsible media, a British-Raj Police system, inadequate education and health systems, and the unnecessary burden of bureaucracy. The list can simply go on and on.

The bottomline is - democracy in India in broken and rotten to its very core.

I strongly believe that we need our first proper revolution against this beast of our government system. They're sleeping soundly, only to wake up once in while to check their swiss bank accounts and organize fake rallies against each other when the elections are due. Even the voters couldn't care less. How many of you sincerely care about party policies and read their menifesto before hitting the ballat? How many of you baffle at our police system that still retains its British-raj attire? How many of you have felt the frustration in govenment offices, while lining up to pay bills, poor roads, our "World class" municipal corporations? How many feel betrayed because of our incapable and inherently corrupt judicial system - when Salman doesn't go to jail even after killing humans and animals alike? When SC continues granting endless bails to Laloo? When our PM doesn't care if there's a killer in his rock-band of monkey-ministers?

How does it feel like to see our government bending its back for Amrikaans, and ready to lick their feet? Or to see DRDO/HAL deliver nothing after all these years and thousands of crores of wasted investments? Look at Pakistan. Their JF-17 is even pulling orders from other countries, while it's yet to be introduced in PAK Airforce. Their Khalid tank is practically ridiculing our lame Arjun tank, which even our Army has declared as "not fit" for their purposes.

The issues are endless, and I would rather talk about them while my fellow members raise questions or show interest in an honest and serious talk about this country and this government of ours.

I would like my fellow members to think, ask, then think again, and only then register their votes here. All this voting without any thinking is what has made our country what it is - a day-dreamer sloth.

Let's decide our own future!

Nope .. no revolution for India..
That'd rip the economy to smithereens, and then India would have to start from scratch again! Pakistan looks set for a revolution, but dunno if it'll finally come through. There are many ways for India to correct itself, Revolution isn't the only way!
Just my two cents ...

=CrAzYG33K= said:
There are many ways for India to correct itself

Sure, there are many. Like, embracing Rahul baba as our future PM (err ...King), continue pretending and ignoring that rural India even exists, keep dreaming of turning Mumbai into Shanghai. And who doesn't like reading MiG crash reports with morning tea, right?

To change is life.

Yamaraj said:
Sure, there are many. Like, embracing Rahul baba as our future PM (err ...King), continue pretending and ignoring that rural India even exists, keep dreaming of turning Mumbai into Shanghai. And who doesn't like reading MiG crash reports with morning tea, right?

To change is life.

Change is required .. AGREED

But again .. Like I said, Is revolution the only way?

As I post this .. The Forex rates are :
USD Vs INR : 40.760
This has been achieved after a mighty struggle by India.. Do you want that to come crashing down ?

EDIT:
The USD was like hovering around the 45 Rupees mark for about 2 years or so, and it changed like 6 months ago ..

=CrAzYG33K= said:
Change is required .. AGREED
But again .. Like I said, Is revolution the only way?
As I post this .. The Forex rates are :
USD Vs INR : 40.760
This has been achieved after a mighty struggle by India.. Do you want that to come crashing down ?

EDIT:
The USD was like hovering around the 45 Rupees mark for about 2 years or so, and it changed like 6 months ago ..

By "revolution", I do not necessarily mean an armed and violent uprising against all. My ideal government will be more open and transparent - actually representating the citizens, not ruling over them. A law enforement agency that will be friendly, not insulting to the common man - willing to listen and co-operate, helpful, intelligent and will not behave like a personal army of politicians. And there will be one law for all - regardless of religions, caste, gender, color or race. My ideal government will not officially recognize religions and castes. Issues like temples and mosques will not hamper paliament sessions, and politicians will be treated as they should be. My ideal government will consist of intellectuals, philosophers, ground to Earth people with real foresight and common men from all classes. There won't be a place for dirty politics.

Indian swiss bank accounts will be disclosed and assets will be returned to the country - as an aid in education, health services, food and military. There are many things that we, the uncorrupted, can carry out. We can run the country if we desire so - with will and intelligence. We're better than the scumbags polluting this country with their very presence. We can do better!

^^ I agree with Yamaraj.
And you will be happy to note that in some parts of the country, some very good guys are fighting election and if they are selected then we can think of a bright future for India. The change will be gradual but it will happen.
For more info:
www.bharatpunarnirman.org

Well, I agree we need something. Non-violent Anti-reservation protest was a real instance....Just look at Arjun Sing, he is still proceeding with it all....how absurd!
But I can't find an appropriate option to vote coz from 1st option it seems u want a dictator (u shud edit it...if I'm not wrong about ur views), 2nd => I'm definitely not happy with things they r, 3rd I want to vote!

^
1. Not necessarily a dictator. An ideal government can be a board/panel of a few honest intellectuals like our President, philosophers, top military generals, civil servants and benevolent corporate minds like Narayan Murthi. I don't want a Stalin running this country, either.

2. Good to know that you're not happy with the things as they are.

3. I hope things are clear enough for you, so you can express your opinion honestly.

We can tweak our democracy by amending our constitution, either make this a Direct democracy like the Switzerland or federal structure like USA with a Presidential democracy. But naturally our Power hungry parliament and politicians want more power by day so expecting them to relinquish power is like expecting Emperor Palpatine to introduce the New Republic.

I know ur views coz we have been discussing for pretty long now. U need not explain it. Thats y I asked to edit it!
Neways in short my "expert opinion"

is that we shud have a democratic government that upholds all the values of democracy without any partiality.....no hypocrisy, no unequalness, no corruption, no looting of *,.....things that resemble the corruption today! I guess this what everybody wants!!??

Out of Question... !!! There is no chance... !!!

^ Any reason or logic supporting ur statement?

Choto Cheeta said:
Out of Question... !!! There is no chance... !!!

You can be a little more specific. As I requested in my original post, you should only vote after doing some thinking. And if possible, you should share your views with the rest of us.

Revolution comes when people find them self no where to go...to an Extrem point ...

where as in India we are facing some thing ;like Slow Poisoning ....

A dog will go mad or Byte his master when tourchered so much that it cant take much... but when u feed it 10% of the require food, it will die but staying loyel to its master...

same with us.. we are the victim of Slow Poisoning

Thats why I said as there is not much of an anger to flame one

Also Indian Arm forces are more than capable enough to stop any such action

Choto Cheeta said:
Also Indian Arm forces are more than capable enough to stop any such action

Indian Armed Forces will always support the citizens. There is a reason why Indira Gandhi was afraid of a military action against her shortly before the declaration of emergency. She was worried about the intelligence reports confirming that JP had convinced many army officials for support in overthrowing her government.

70's in west Bengal thousands of Young Brilliant Men and Women were killed. as they tryed to force one !!!!

They gave birth to Naxal !! tryed to force one with their blood... but Armed Forces, killed because they are bound to follow order ...

that was some horrible time... Police was on rampage to stop... !! our parants and older member of family (Not only us, every one of West Bengal) witnessed the horror !!

First thing I would like to see happen is remove the countless number of parties & make it to a limited size...around 3-4...Otherwise only coalition govts form & the majority party wont be able to take firm decisions at all....

Opine freely and without any fear people! You're free to exercise your right to the freedom of expression. Our constituion grants this right to all of us, and if the government doesn't like it - it may go fsck itself.

it is horribly corrupt states like Up,bihar etc..
So needs a revolution,but no way a dictatorship helps.

But again .. Like I said, Is revolution the only way?

Mass,non-violent Anti-reservation protest was a kind of revolution too don't forget that. Their (student's) actions is bringing atleast some result!
*www.ibnlive.com/news/supreme-court-stays-quota-in-pvt-aided-institutions/37225-3.html
*timesofindia.indiatimes.com/New_quota_regime_unlikely_in_IITs_IIMs/articleshow/1830328.cms

As I post this .. The Forex rates are :
USD Vs INR : 40.760
This has been achieved after a mighty struggle by India.. Do you want that to come crashing down ?

What about the suicide by and plight of farmers? Don't forget India's economic base is its agriculture! So do u want the economy to crash?
What about 1 crore+ illegal bangladeshi immigrants? Aren't they sucking our economy and even getting voting cards? What about government hospitals....have u ever seen how many bangladeshis and pakistanis line up there becoz off free treatment? Why even give free treatment to a few pakistani in the name of friendship? Is that their money that they r getting treated for free? Isn't that a misuse of our economy?
I'm sure many r familiar with the repair of roads that authorities dig and repair and when finally everybody hopes to walk/drive on it they dig it again and take another 2 years to repair it. If u rn't familiar with it, then come to delhi and ask local residents...they'll educate u on it giving plenty of instances!

Help Save such things and u'll find that economy will rise unparalleled.

Revolution comes when people find them self no where to go...to an Extrem point ...

Reservation is an extreme point. How many types of reservations do these leaders want? Minority reservation, OBC reservation, Sc/ST reservation. Rich get their work done by buttering. What the heck, Is being a middle class hindu a crime in India?

same with us.. we are the victim of Slow Poisoning

Thats why I said as there is not much of an anger to flame one

Also Indian Arm forces are more than capable enough to stop any such action

Its appropriate to take actions when u r conscious. How can u even act when u have been poisoned completely? Also just think that the reservation was just non-violent. Imagine what wud have happened if they wud have gone violent. I fear they wud have played chain saw massacre then in parliament or some kind of Rang de basanti! The leaders wud have met their final destination then and I doubt if even the Indian army wud have been able to stop the students then!

We must avoid the multi-party system and follow US policy of just two parties functioning at the top level.

This would reduce unnecessary delay in making amendments and passing new bills.The resource crunch will also be reduced in this way

Cutting daily allowances for attending the precedings of the houses have to be cut. Why should the MPs/MLAs should be given daily allowances for attending the precedings when they are given salaries on a monthly basis ?

Reservations in Schools and Colleges should be avoided at all cost.
Instead of that programmes sponsoring education to children of poor and the downtrodden right from primary level should be made compulsory.

What is the use of allocating seats in colleges when the student is unable to live upto his expectations at school level ?

Police, Law and Order should be brought under the control of an independent organization that does not crumble under pressure from the ruling government/opposition

techtronic said:
We must avoid the multi-party system and follow US policy of just two parties functioning at the top level.

This would reduce unnecessary delay in making amendments and passing new bills.The resource crunch will also be reduced in this way

Cutting daily allowances for attending the precedings of the houses have to be cut. Why should the MPs/MLAs should be given daily allowances for attending the precedings when they are given salaries on a monthly basis ?

Reservations in Schools and Colleges should be avoided at all cost.
Instead of that programmes sponsoring education to children of poor and the downtrodden right from primary level should be made compulsory.

What is the use of allocating seats in colleges when the student is unable to live upto his expectations at school level ?

Police, Law and Order should be brought under the control of an independent organization that does not crumble under pressure from the ruling government/opposition

This will also mean that if the two parties are hell bent on having something done regardless if it is right or wrong, they will do it. Take reservations for example. No third party will mean no alternative opinion. Our democracy will soon become an oligarchy in such a case.

^A very good point. Even now with multiple parties, they have clearly hijacked the entire country and the constitution. IMO, political parties are extremely dangerous to a sane and pure democracy. Is there any political party in India worthy of a proper government? I would highly disagree.

Keep discussing and let the ideas flowing.

BIG no to reservations of any types in India.

T

We certainly need a revolution and a military coup is necessary. Our military generals are not capable of doing that. Other than a military there is no one else. Or we need to start a militia and throw the government or a blitzkrieg attack on all states is only way to remove the government of india.

Revolution is needed but it will come by literacy...We ppl are literate..and get good food etc..thats y we think all abt human values

uss janta se jaake pucho jo 2 waqt ki roti bhi nahin jutaa paati

What u will do if ur made PM for one day ? I will

- remove all type of reservations
- enforce 2 child law (like China)
- enforce Uniform Civil code
- enforce 2 party system
- make education complusory for everyone
- make education free upto 12 for all

U mean like Nayak ? :neutral:

yessss

^ Fictitious not real life one :))

esumitkumar said:
Revolution is needed but it will come by literacy...We ppl are literate..and get good food etc..thats y we think all abt human values

uss janta se jaake pucho jo 2 waqt ki roti bhi nahin jutaa paati

While I do respect your views and opinion, a one-day PM won't be able to pull many stunts as shown in the movie. And we don't need a patriotic government for a day only.

I would also like to add one item to your list - conscription, a compulsory military service for the young men and women of this country. Clearly, few respect the freedom and the life they're blessed with, and even less have deep respect for this nation and its unity. People are too busy fighting for their regionalism, language, clothing, religions, castes and other things mundane.

I'm of the opinion that conscription will bring patriotism and discipline to the masses. And in case a total war breaks out with countries like Pakistan and China, our military won't perform upto its mark without solid support of civilians. And that isn't possible until and unless every single person of this country respects the land, the people and himself.

Our governments have long ignored that Pakistan is actually an army which has its own country. The very reason it exists is because of our weakness. I have nothing against its people, but the Pakistani military, its intelligence services and the dictatorship are hell bent on breaking our country again.

And it's very disappointing to see, that in this day and age, our government lacks the foresight and the will to act with an iron fist against these immediate threats. In stead, they're dividing the country themselves, on the basis of regionalism, language and even national assets like rivers - thus making the job of external threats even easier.

People, our own politicians are the worst kind of traitors of the motherland. They must be taught a lesson.

Yamaraj said:
Our governments have long ignored that Pakistan is actually an army which has its own country.

ROTFLMAO*www.techhelpers.net/e4u/comp/comp11.gif

T

kumarmohit said:
ROTFLMAO*www.techhelpers.net/e4u/comp/comp11.gif

What is so funny about that?. It is a shame.

Mayb.. I actually feel it needs a U-Turn

thunderbird.117 said:
We certainly need a revolution and a military coup is necessary. Our military generals are not capable of doing that. Other than a military there is no one else. Or we need to start a militia and throw the government or a blitzkrieg attack on all states is only way to remove the government of india.

Need a military coup !!! r u joking, under military regime u may not be able to debate in such a forum.

cyberboy_kerala said:
Need a military coup !!! r u joking, under military regime u may not be able to debate in such a forum.

By your logic, which is only a capitalist propaganda, there shouldn't exist any Internet sites, forums, debates or any kind of freedom in China, Pakistan, Thailand, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia and other "military" or communist regimes?

Facts don't agree with you. What is the first thing to cross your mind whenever "America" is mentioned? Its democracy, education, forums, women, or the almost pornographic military might of the arrogant superpower? It is infact America that is fast turning into a "fascist" state, which, I'm afraid, this country has already turned into. Read more - *www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

T

cyberboy_kerala said:
Need a military coup !!! r u joking, under military regime u may not be able to debate in such a forum.

Nah, Do you think i was joking?. Mum said the same thing has you told. I feel having a military rule is a better way to improve india in many ways. Discipline comes very first on military which india and the government lacks. My mum did say one thing correctly before when india was ruled by king and queen india was so better. Mum also said that when she was small when they were kings it was much better than what it is now. If you did not know even england is ruled by queen now. Tony blair is just a puppet over there. They had to take permission from the queen first before doing anything. Same thing goes to america president of usa can not do anything unless sentor gives premission to go for war. Well they can go to war for 90 days after that sentor decides what is next. I feel many of thing is declining so a lot. Many of them prefer luxury. America was good in days of abraham lincoln the greatest US president ever. Even john f kennedy was great but sadly both of them got assassinated

. This two shaped america so much but now america is nothing but dirt on their face.

thunderbird.117 said:
Nah, Do you think i was joking?. Mum said the same thing has you told. I feel having a military rule is a better way to improve india in many ways. Discipline comes very first on military which india and the government lacks. My mum did say one thing correctly before when india was ruled by king and queen india was so better. Mum also said that when she was small when they were kings it was much better than what it is now. If you did not know even england is ruled by queen now. Tony blair is just a puppet over there. They had to take permission from the queen first before doing anything. Same thing goes to america president of usa can not do anything unless sentor gives premission to go for war. Well they can go to war for 90 days after that sentor decides what is next. I feel many of thing is declining so a lot. Many of them prefer luxury. America was good in days of abraham lincoln the greatest US president ever. Even john f kennedy was great but sadly both of them got assassinated . This two shaped america so much but now america is nothing but dirt on their face.

Freedom u will never know wat it means n wat it is.

Mommy's boy.

U have argued with me once n now I say I dont wanna eva argue with you again.

Equality among all is wat we need. Not a dictator n puppets.

Thats why I support MANKIND n no religion no country. I really wanna see earth united even this universe with all of us equal.

Peace~~~!

T

Goten said:
Freedom u will never know wat it means n wat it is.

Mommy's boy.

U have argued with me once n now I say I dont wanna eva argue with you again.

Equality among all is wat we need. Not a dictator n puppets.

Thats why I support MANKIND n no religion no country. I really wanna see earth united even this universe with all of us equal.

Peace~~~!

Earth united hmm.

New World Order?.

Ok, lets post wats practically possible not theoretically! I guess its all like a sine wave, that people become corrupt and then a new generation like us arises that wants to undo all the misery and then another generation evolves where everything is in shape and people try to take advantage of it......just like contracting-expanding universe theory!!!!

Yamaraj said:
By your logic, which is only a capitalist propaganda, there shouldn't exist any Internet sites, forums, debates or any kind of freedom in China, Pakistan, Thailand, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia and other "military" or communist regimes?

It is the truth and no one can ignore it ,and
Peoples in these military rule does't hav tat much freedom as of oures.And u will go nuts if u hear the restrictions tat these people has to live with.But chinese people are now slowly fighting back,China is the best example for how bad military rule is.

Does China need a revolution?
And Is it possible to start a thread like this for u from china ????? BIG NO
This is what i am talking about..and india rocks in that respect

thunderbird.117 said:
Discipline comes very first on military which india and the government lacks.

Are you sure ,hav u ever heard of military personals going bad china,and when these people are corrupted ter no one to question them,they will blow u up.Indian politicians r up to some extended corrupted, but in india atleast we hav a fighting chance becoz it is democracy.

thunderbird.117 said:
My mum did say one thing correctly before when india was ruled by king and queen india was so better. Mum also said that when she was small when they were kings it was much better than what it is now

yeah u r correct,when kings rule it is good for a particular section of people and others suffers.
And kings or military is not the answer for these, calling them will be asking for trouble

mediator said:
Ok, lets post wats practically possible not theoretically! I guess its all like a sine wave, that people become corrupt and then a new generation like us arises that wants to undo all the misery and then another generation evolves where everything is in shape and people try to take advantage of it......just like contracting-expanding universe theory!!!!

Mediator ji wat is practically possible is wat we are doing right now.

Wasting our bandwidth.

LOL....Did u eva see that coming.

Peace~~~!

Well u shudn't say "we" coz the thing u r mostly doing is bashing @thunderbird in this forums. Compare ur post with the post of rest of the members here in this thread....and if u wanna waste bandwidth like that then u can always create another thread to bash the members. Atleast have the ethics to go by the thread creator's request! So wat is really practical in the latest discussion is that kakorotte's son doesn't ruin the thread further by selectively choosing the posts and then simply mocking other people and that too in his first post!

So => LOL....Did u eva see that coming.

Peace~~~!!!??? :neutral:

Buuuuuu

cyberboy_kerala said:
It is the truth and no one can ignore it ,and
Peoples in these military rule does't hav tat much freedom as of oures.And u will go nuts if u hear the restrictions tat these people has to live with.But chinese people are now slowly fighting back,China is the best example for how bad military rule is.

Does China need a revolution?
And Is it possible to start a thread like this for u from china ????? BIG NO
This is what i am talking about..and india rocks in that respect

No disrespect, but you're clearly living in a world of fiction, created by the pseudo-democratic government and its puppet mass-media.

Anyone, who witnessed the barbaric treatment of Hero Honda employees in Haryana by the government and police, will agree that even military regimes aren't this close to being evil. Have you ever noticed peaceful protesters being beaten brutally by the police? The "lathi" treatment is unfortunately a reminiscent of the British Raj, when we were not supposed to be any better than poor cattle. When our own police goes to an extent of committing mass murders, instead of controlling people and separating violent elements embedded within, what chances do you stand even in a peaceful procession in this "democratic" country? I would rather have a bullet in the back of my head than being humiliated publically by the "lathi" of an illeterate sarkari gunda.

And what freedom have you actually been talking about? Freedom of watching crap all day on crappy television channels, or watching gossip/weddings and other non-news on 24*7 news channels? Or lining up in offices to make payments, for telephone/gas/whatever connections and to be repeatedly humiliated by "sarkari babus"? Or is that the freedom to choose a scum among a hundred other scumbags to pollute the parliament, that you seem to cherish so much? Where is your freedom when the son of a "Videshi Queen" is openly projected as our future savior? Where in the hell is your freedom in that?

Do you even know what China is? Be honest! No, you don't. That's because our democratic government doesn't want you to know how much better a "communist" country has become, despite of all the negative opinion of people about their government and corporate ethics. How many Olympic medals did this nation win the last time? Who is dying for a "superpower" status even without any significant influence on World politics and economy? Who's lobyying for a seat in UNSC and getting laughed at for pathetic hopeless efforts? And, China wouldn't have tolerated something like a Kargil, and then certainly wouldn't have shaked hands with the enemy - the murderer of a thousand Indian servicemen.

I needn't even mention Chinese military prowess, missile and space program developments as opposed to ours. Both Indian and Chinese space programs started almost at the same time, but still China is several light-years ahead of us in that department. But how can we look upto better standards to compare ourselves with and set a better goal, when our "leaders" are unable to see past Pakistan for all intents and purposes?

This is China for you.

*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/nexo_19DXHuRStgI7.jpg

*img171.imageshack.us/img171/9618/hongkongskylinebymkekylf6.jpg
*static.flickr.com/27/54221159_84fea997bf_b.jpg
*my.freep.cn/ShowPhoto.aspx?PhotoSi...oadPhotos/2006-9-23/21/freep_cn_482860804.jpg
*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/2005114182222768_CvaUv2m5DZ5h.jpg
*www.3316.com.cn/photo/uploadphotos/200509/20050901173025745.jpg
*i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Shenzhencn/SZ others/01912D86.jpg
*bbs.zahuopu.com/attachments/day_051026/1_iFRo2GQE1c5u.jpg
*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/SZ1_AYKPOWRmKebi.jpg
*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/012F0DBA_uMDZAQsNU5Sr.jpg
*media.damnfunnypictures.com/dfp/pretty_china_01.jpg
*media.damnfunnypictures.com/dfp/pretty_china_02.jpg
*www.code-d.com/china/victoria-peak-hong-kong-big.jpg

T

Yamaraj said:
No disrespect, but you're clearly living in a world of fiction, created by the pseudo-democratic government and its puppet mass-media.

Anyone, who witnessed the barbaric treatment of Hero Honda employees in Haryana by the government and police, will agree that even military regimes aren't this close to being evil. Have you ever noticed peaceful protesters being beaten brutally by the police? The "lathi" treatment is unfortunately a reminiscent of the British Raj, when we were not supposed to be any better than poor cattle. When our own police goes to an extent of committing mass murders, instead of controlling people and separating violent elements embedded within, what chances do you stand even in a peaceful procession in this "democratic" country? I would rather have a bullet in the back of my head than being humiliated publically by the "lathi" of an illeterate sarkari gunda.

And what freedom have you actually been talking about? Freedom of watching crap all day on crappy television channels, or watching gossip/weddings and other non-news on 24*7 news channels? Or lining up in offices to make payments, for telephone/gas/whatever connections and to be repeatedly humiliated by "sarkari babus"? Or is that the freedom to choose a scum among a hundred other scumbags to pollute the parliament, that you seem to cherish so much? Where is your freedom when the son of a "Videshi Queen" is openly projected as our future savior? Where in the hell is your freedom in that?

Do you even know what China is? Be honest! No, you don't. That's because our democratic government doesn't want you to know how much better a "communist" country has become, despite of all the negative opinion of people about their government and corporate ethics. How many Olympic medals did this nation win the last time? Who is dying for a "superpower" status even without any significant influence on World politics and economy? Who's lobyying for a seat in UNSC and getting laughed at for pathetic hopeless efforts? And, China wouldn't have tolerated something like a Kargil, and then certainly wouldn't have shaked hands with the enemy - the murderer of a thousand Indian servicemen.

I needn't even mention Chinese military prowess, missile and space program developments as opposed to ours. Both Indian and Chinese space programs started almost at the same time, but still China is several light-years ahead of us in that department. But how can we look upto better standards to compare ourselves with and set a better goal, when our "leaders" are unable to see past Pakistan for all intents and purposes?

This is China for you.

*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/nexo_19DXHuRStgI7.jpg

*img171.imageshack.us/img171/9618/hongkongskylinebymkekylf6.jpg
*static.flickr.com/27/54221159_84fea997bf_b.jpg
*my.freep.cn/ShowPhoto.aspx?PhotoSize=All&PhotoFont=&PhotoSrc=UploadPhotos/2006-9-23/21/freep_cn_482860804.jpg
*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/2005114182222768_CvaUv2m5DZ5h.jpg
*www.3316.com.cn/photo/uploadphotos/200509/20050901173025745.jpg
*i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Shenzhencn/SZ%20others/01912D86.jpg
*bbs.zahuopu.com/attachments/day_051026/1_iFRo2GQE1c5u.jpg
*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/SZ1_AYKPOWRmKebi.jpg
*www.skyscrapers.cn/forum/attachments/012F0DBA_uMDZAQsNU5Sr.jpg
*media.damnfunnypictures.com/dfp/pretty_china_01.jpg
*media.damnfunnypictures.com/dfp/pretty_china_02.jpg
*www.code-d.com/china/victoria-peak-hong-kong-big.jpg

Sexy

*jacques.prevost.free.fr/cahiers/BombayNight.gif

Mumbai

. Look nothing next to china.

Yamaraj said:
By your logic, which is only a capitalist propaganda, there shouldn't exist any Internet sites, forums, debates or any kind of freedom in China, Pakistan, Thailand, Cuba, Venezuela, Russia and other "military" or communist regimes?

Just one example, I hope you have heard of a place called Tien an Men square in China. Please go to wikipedia and read about it. Then you might have think how much freedom is there in a communist regime.

kumarmohit said:
Just one example, I hope you have heard of a place called Tien an Men square in China. Please go to wikipedia and read about it. Then you might have think how much freedom is there in a communist regime.

Tiananmen Square protests and killings are not to be treated as an example of pure cruelty of the Chinese government for its people. I definitely condemn the brutality, but let's not forget that even democratic governments like India and USA have take the same stance against peaceful protesters. I needn't mention J&K, NE, W.Bengal and others where police/army slaughtered civilians in thousands upon thousands. Amerikaans won't ever forget the massacre of Waco, The Civil War and Mexicans are still angry at Amrikaans for taking away Texas and California by force.

Where's the guarantee that Indian government won't react the same way if we started gathering before the Red Fort with the same purpose of disbanding their monkey-rock-band?

Besides, I'm not a communist and neither do I support them. I'll offer them nothing but bullets for eating Indian and singing Chinese. But we need a *strong* government with some geniune will-power and guts to take actions. That's why I keep mentioning China and others.

H

I don't think India needs a revolution.It's the citizen's point of view which needs one..

Harvik780 said:
I don't think India needs a revolution.It's the citizen's point of view which needs one..

And what is India without her citizens?

mediator said:
Well u shudn't say "we" coz the thing u r mostly doing is bashing @thunderbird in this forums. Compare ur post with the post of rest of the members here in this thread....and if u wanna waste bandwidth like that then u can always create another thread to bash the members. Atleast have the ethics to go by the thread creator's request! So wat is really practical in the latest discussion is that kakorotte's son doesn't ruin the thread further by selectively choosing the posts and then simply mocking other people and that too in his first post!

So => LOL....Did u eva see that coming.

Peace~~~!!!???
Buuuuuu

I gave an answer related to the topic.

Ur reminding of a mistake i had done earlier so that u can just make urself feel lise a wise old owl.

N by the way I have posted in other topics without targetting ne1.

When I was posting here thunderbird had posted earlier so I replied to his post.

N man really stop behaving like a wise guy coz ur not so old n experienced.

LOL.

So the point is India is revolutionising, if u dont see it then its ur fault.

Its slow n not as wat we wanted but it will work.

Peace~~~!

I gave an answer related to the topic.

Ur reminding of a mistake i had done earlier so that u can just make urself feel lise a wise old owl.

N by the way I have posted in other topics without targetting ne1.

When I was posting here thunderbird had posted earlier so I replied to his post.

N man really stop behaving like a wise guy coz ur not so old n experienced.

I'm not interested in ur puny confession, please stick to the topic! Looks like @thunderbird is ur favourite victim. Please include me in ur hitlist and quote me as well so as to entertain me and dont do the same mistake here!!

So the point is India is revolutionising, if u dont see it then its ur fault.

Hmm....good point saiyan....u changed my mind! Ulfa,Pok terrorists,50%+ reservation in southern state, a firangi who is unable to speak any IndiAN language properly ruling the ruling political party, porous bihar border, bangladeshis infiltrating like mosquitoes in a house getting voting rights and njoying free treatment in govt hospitals and making Delhi unsafe (I hope u read newspapers), poor unable to get any police help, mid-class people staying out of police circle, rich bending the ruless and mocking the law, people in government offices where they don't know their work or pretend to be stewpid/slob and direct u to some other person where u r again redirected until u spend some 2-3 days or show that u r rich and powerful, salman khan killing people on pavement, animals and then getting away, and then people like u who still haven't snapped out yet of their dreamland either ignoring the reality or making one line statements and then going to their bed again...........endless! Is this what u call revolution? Please go scendent sayain!

Its slow n not as wat we wanted but it will work.

LIke an evolutionary process? ROFL

May be the next time u can waste ur bandwidth by elaborating a little more instead of making stereotypical one line statements just to show off that u r being relevant here. I hope thats not too hard for a little super sayian.

HUH
Peace~~~!

mediator said:
May be the next time u can waste ur bandwidth by elaborating a little more instead of making stereotypical one line statements just to show off that u r being relevant here. I hope thats not too hard for a little super sayian.

HUH
Peace~~~!

Lol.

See whose frustrated. And yeah better snap out of DBZ coz its just an id n nothing else.

Looking at ur no. of posts i know whose wasting more bandwidth.

Negative people like you will always looks at the downsides.

People like you just critisize n wine over things n do nothing.

Please gimme a break coz whole world knows that india is a developing economy n in time other things will develop too.

Now for ur facts wich u read n neva saw......

Hmm....good point saiyan....u changed my mind! Ulfa,Pok terrorists,50%+ reservation in southern state, a firangi who is unable to speak any IndiAN language properly ruling the ruling political party, porous bihar border, bangladeshis infiltrating like mosquitoes in a house getting voting rights and njoying free treatment in govt hospitals and making Delhi unsafe (I hope u read newspapers), poor unable to get any police help, mid-class people staying out of police circle, rich bending the ruless and mocking the law, people in government offices where they don't know their work or pretend to be stewpid/slob and direct u to some other person where u r again redirected until u spend some 2-3 days or show that u r rich and powerful, salman khan killing people on pavement, animals and then getting away, and then people like u who still haven't snapped out yet of their dreamland either ignoring the reality or making one line statements and then going to their bed again...........endless! Is this what u call revolution? Please go scendent sayain!

Terrorist activities have decreased.....I have lived in jammu n even been to Indo Pak borders areas for months....Uri sector to b clear....I know wats its like.

Ulfa - Have u eva been to North east....I have spent my childhood there....In Assam n manipur I know wats its like so dont wine dear.

Reservations - People who are poor need this so that rich poor gap is decreased.....What are u thinking mate.....lagta hai engineering nai kar paaye tum...ROFL

U call Sonia Gandhi a firangi - I call her a woman leader - Be it ne nation - Grow up n stop feeling like a slave of firangees....LMAO

Bangladeshi are making Delhi unsafe - where are u in wonderland - delhis unsafe bcoz of it own citizens - Rash driving....Rapes etc

Ur against our law n order - So join something n try to change it - dont wine about it.

I have done a lot of sarkari work n everything can be done as per method all u need is patience.

And pls snap outta DBZ lil boy posing as Mediator MAJIN BUU.

LOL. I pity u for really wining n doing nuthing for MANKIND and for ur own country.

Reading newspapers is not the only thing....Sometimes u gotta see wats the reality.

Huh....Ur a kid....Atleast pretend to be one.

Peace~~~!

That was quite entertaining!

Please gimme a break coz whole world knows that india is a developing economy n in time other things will develop too.

U think its having problems becoz its developing? Hilarious!

Terrorist activities have decreased.....I have lived in jammu n even been to Indo Pak borders areas for months....Uri sector to b clear....I know wats its like.

May be thats y morning newspapers have latest headlines about JnK and about how many people and armymen got killed. Looks I'm dealing with a terrorist here!

Ulfa - Have u eva been to North east....I have spent my childhood there....In Assam n manipur I know wats its like so dont wine dear.

hmm...its seems u r quite used to all that misery that u make others feel comfortable about it by telling them "it's all right". U have my sympathy!

Reservations - People who are poor need this so that rich poor gap is decreased.....What are u thinking mate.....lagta hai engineering nai kar paaye tum...ROFL

How has it decreased? By dividing the society? Don't make me laugh.What r u.....glutton for ur mockery?
So please don't deviate the thread to reservation. U already deviated a lot. Debate here and entertain me if u have the balls to do so. :neutral:

It seems u got admission in engg through reservation and desperately wanna certify ur career as an inferior one! Good going.

U call Sonia Gandhi a firangi - I call her a woman leader - Be it ne nation - Grow up n stop feeling like a slave of firangees....LMAO

Yea quite a leader when people can't understand what she even speaks in elections. U r really amusing! Personally I have to admire that she tries her level best to speak correctly/fluently but still sounds like an alien.

Bangladeshi are making Delhi unsafe - where are u in wonderland - delhis unsafe bcoz of it own citizens - Rash driving....Rapes etc

Do u even know how to read newspapers and know about the crime by bangladeshis? How absurd!

Ur against our law n order - So join something n try to change it - dont wine about it.

Well who initiated the anti-reservation here in delhi? but I'm definitely not the leader! And please dont confuse "enlightment" with "whining"! Kids really like to jump a lot when they r being enlightened! U r setting perfect examples. Calm down and have a seat!

I have done a lot of sarkari work n everything can be done as per method all u need is patience.

Good! It seems u have a lotta time to waste. What do u do in the meantime standing there...talking to urself or pondering about ur frustrated life that u r so accustomed to that u feel its all fine? Snap out, have a girlfirend, u'll feel a little lighter!

And pls snap outta DBZ lil boy posing as Mediator MAJIN BUU.

Ahh, just to cheer up the little saiyan! But I noticed he got quite a temper!

LOL. I pity u for really wining n doing nuthing for MANKIND and for ur own country.

Reading newspapers is not the only thing....Sometimes u gotta see wats the reality.

What.... u still seeing dreams of me (nice) that I'm dong nuthing? R u on drugs? And I hope u don't witness the reality in ur dreams thinking u r the ONE! So thats right "Sometimes u gotta see wats the reality.", u have to go out in the sun, u have to pinch urself to see if ur still dreaming or not and then do something! Try doing it next time. There's more to life then just sleeping in ur bedroom 24/7.....my cute little saiyan!

How cute!

Huh....Ur a kid....Atleast pretend to be one.

Ok ok, I noticed u like to stand infront of mirrors a lot!

Now show some balls, quote me line by line and speak atleast a little sanely. I hope ur next post wont be filled with ego and childish statements! PLease debate seriously if u want a serious discussion or else ur posts r still better than Jokes2000.com u know!

Huh
Peace~~~!

Mediator u got really lot of time to waste.

Man ur online whole day. Wat are u a fat geek.

And its u who is commenting on my each n every post n points.

LOL. I really pity u(Couch Potato).

Do something n stop wining. Elightment doesn't mean arguin but doin sumthing worthful. Ur not enlightened. All u do is whine.

Nehow it seems u enjoy this like a baby. I guess u dont have a gf so thats why ur online whole day n yeah do u have ne real frens coz i got many n I have a girlfren too. Want my frenship or u still wanna whine.

N yeah just dont start crying again replying to wat I told about u....Coz u cry weep n whine a lot.....This is wat u will do all ur life.

Peace~~~!

@Goten,
I think you have expressed your opinion, and there is no need to deviate this thread any further. I wouldn't have created this post and poll if everything was alright with this country. Democracy is about active participation, and that requires education and a thought process. Unfortunately, the majority in this country votes only for the sake of voting. They're illeterate, not well read, not interested in thinking, ignorant, lazy, and overall unwilling to take part in the political process that makes a democracy lively.

Ours is, at best, an unconcious democracy. And without serious reforms, things are not going to change on their own. This is the "revolution" we are talking about here.

T

We need an other type of revolution.

thunderbird.117 said:
We need an other type of revolution.

I'm not ruling out this option at all. I respect those who think they can change Indian socio-political scneraio by participating actively in the electorial process. But I'm not that kind of an optimist. You cannot just start a new party today and expect the whole India to listen and understand your points, so you can cash their loyality in form of votes. Even if not impossible, this will take another century.

So, you can say that I am actually advocating "another" type of revolution.

Do something n stop wining. Elightment doesn't mean arguin but doin sumthing worthful. Ur not enlightened. All u do is whine.

Like calling others a mommy's boy? U may call me wateva u want as I said ur post is still better than jokes2000.com! If ur posts r not interesting then atleast they r amusing and quite entertaining. Too bad u can't speak to the point anymore, quote me line by line nor invoke that reservation thread. Guess u really don't have the balls! How sad and disappointing! I hope u don't promote ur mockery anymore now! Please stick to the topic!

Yamaraj said:
No disrespect, but you're clearly living in a world of fiction, created by the pseudo-democratic government and its puppet mass-media.

I think this best fits for you. Is it possible to start a thread which i mentioned earlier frm china for u.i wud like to hear frm u?
If this simple things r not possible not to mention other areas.
Try to start a forum like dis frm china, Yamaraj will be gone in 60 seconds,and u will be in custody.
Now who is living in a world of fiction?

Yamaraj said:
And what freedom have you actually been talking about? Freedom of watching crap all day on crappy television channels, or watching gossip/weddings and other non-news on 24*7 news channels? Or lining up in offices to make payments, for telephone/gas/whatever connections and to be repeatedly humiliated by "sarkari babus"? Or is that the freedom to choose a scum among a hundred other scumbags to pollute the parliament, that you seem to cherish so much? Where is your freedom when the son of a "Videshi Queen" is openly projected as our future savior? Where in the hell is your freedom in that?

Your r enjoying the freedom every moment even while posting here n reading this and u r asking abt it, Amazing!!.
Read our article 19 "Right to freedom" n in that first one
"Freedom of speech and expression".

yeah it is freedom tat we r able to see a channel 24*7,even if it is crap.it is not about the quality of programs its about doing things tat we want( not to harm others), atleast we r not executed for doing these, but chineese people r not tat fortunate.Chinesse govt executes close to 1000 people a yr, and the other country(in 1st place) is afraid tat they will loose first place.This is chinese official figure and the real no is considered much higher than this.The people they executes includes church people, store keeper's who frauds few thousand rupees tax,n innocent peoples who doen't even get a fair trial...which makes saudia Arabia shame.china is only a high-tech taliban.

And abt "videshi Queen", i dont understand wt u r talking, we all hav freedom to vote her son out,why not use it when he comes,or start ur own movement if u r soo considered abt dis which is more difficult tan sitting at home and saying videshi words "hell" in vidseshi language.
And her son hav right to live here,
"Freedom of residence and settlement"

Yamaraj said:
Anyone, who witnessed the barbaric treatment of Hero Honda employees in Haryana by the government and police, will agree that even military regimes aren't this close to being evil. Have you ever noticed peaceful protesters being beaten brutally by the police? The "lathi" treatment is unfortunately a reminiscent of the British Raj, when we were not supposed to be any better than poor cattle. When our own police goes to an extent of committing mass murders, instead of controlling people and separating violent elements embedded within, what chances do you stand even in a peaceful procession in this "democratic" country? I would rather have a bullet in the back of my head than being humiliated publically by the "lathi" of an illeterate sarkari gunda.

yeah u r correct , but this is nothing close to wt china does.

Yamaraj said:
This is China for you.

China is ahead of india in many areas,but people who stare at big building and say wow,fails to see the price payed by poor chinese people for these,which includes forced labour,cheap wages,extreme poor condition to work with.How many times in a yr we here about accidents in coal quarries wich kills 300-400 people in china.China and america r two sides of same coin they china loot ter people and environment and america others .India do hav many problems to deal with but rapid development is not india's way, there are so many things to consider including environmental problems, "Slow and steady wins the race"

I do not think India should try to "grow as rapidly as China." Growth is not just an economic issue. Growth has to be aimed within a relevant country context. India has its own unique past, a very different present, and will chart her own version of the future. In that future, the most crtical component is to keep democracy safe.

The average Indian has, over the last almost 50 years, learned to value freedom. That requires India to socialize many actions before they get taken -- this has its own effect on speed. In matters of growth, one has to take a long view of time, and I see India making overall wholesome progress over time. Will that match China's current rate of growth? Probably not. Does not have to. There is a price to everything. We got to be aware of that.

Subroto Bagchi

@mediator & goten:

Cut it guyz. This is getting personal..

The thing is that India needs revolution of education certainly without reservation.

^ and that means we need to change the thinking of people tooo. People r really getting lazy and don't like to do even simple reading/research. They think whats there in curriculum is sufficient. They don't even bother if it conforms to the facts and that what makes them ignorant. And then they spread their ignorance which well read people term as "rumour" and techies as "FUD"!

Excerpts from NCERT books which potrayed Bhagat singh as terrorist is a good example. Imagine what wud have happened if kids thought of it as a fact.

I wont be surprised if later people start believing to some american phreak who may say that vedas were american creation in early A.Ds!

So for revolutionising education, not only we need to know the latest updates in science and technology but we really also need to think differently, instead of being a stereotype slob, shud have a spirit of questioning and shud know all about Vedas tooo!

@cyberboy_kerala

Sorry to say but your definition of "freedom" is a very limited one. As you probably know, every child in this country has the right to freedom of eduation. Yet, because of government's policies, there are millions of illeterates. Who ate up their freedom? When our own people were dying of hunger, government was donating "excess" productions to other countries. Yay for freedom!

How do you know that Indian government is not executing people unfairly, without giving them a just trial? Either you're not interested in what's happening outside your TV screen, or too naive to understand and admit fallacies of your own argument. Read this - *reason-and-revolution.blogspot.com/2006/11/indian-government-policy-towards-indian.html
A former Director General of the BSF talks about how unfair the capitalist government of ours have been to the poor - that they had turn to socialism and naxalism. Even unarmed women of theirs are 'executed' on the spot by the police, without a fair trial in a court of law - much less the naxals themselves.

Go read some on J&K, where hundreds, if not thousands, were executed by the police and army for money and medals. Switch off that idiot box of yours and read about NE conflicts.

Besides, I consider it more humane to just execute a person than have him die of hunger slowly. And then officials will just refute the news by claiming it was due to some disease. So much for your "Indian freedom". And why shouldn't China execute the corrupt? At least their leaders are not looting the national treasury as ours do. Corruption is the single biggest hindrance to the development of a moral human and a healthy nation.

It's laughable how little you know of the Indian democracy. No matter how bad, illeterate, corrupt and mass murderers these politicians are, people will always vote for them - either because they belong to a certain caste or religion or something equally stupid. Why didn't the Great Indian Public vote Rajiv Gandhi out? Masses are stupid enough to not have voted out both Sonia and Sushma when they were competing against each either for the LS seat. They knew it very well that winner wasn't going to visit her constituency ever again, still they voted for her. Why? Because stupidity has no limits.

I'm not a hedonist and materialism doesn't affect me. I don't praise China for her skyscrapers or communists. I praise her for being 3 times as large as India and still be able to pull ahead of many, not because of communism - but despite it.

India severely lacks this strength. Development does not translate to economy, skyscrapers, standards of living, Mercedes and BMWs, Honda and Hayabusas, ACs and Plasma screens or other materials of hedonistic pleasure. Development, IMHO, is uplifting your "self" from the misery. Development is about having a sane society that is somehow not bent on making money by all means necessary. It is about co-existing with your surroundings, not consuming them. It is about enlightenment.

You are not what you wear. You are not your shoes. You are not what you drive. Know thyself!

india neither needs a dictator, nor is everything perfect.

Yamaraj said:
... your definition of "freedom" is a very limited one. As you probably know, every child in this country has the right to freedom of eduation. Yet, because of government's policies, there are millions of illeterates. Who ate up their freedom...

your definition of freedom isn't very accurate either. freedom to do stuff doesn't make it obligatory for you to do that stuff. for example you have the freedom to vote, chat, sleep, cry, whine etc but you are not required by law to do all that stuff. the fact that there are millions of illiterates doesn't necessarily mean the government is at fault. there could be various other causes for the illiteracy.

Yamaraj said:
Go read some on J&K, where hundreds, if not thousands, were executed by the police and army for money and medals. Switch off that idiot box of yours and read about NE conflicts.

how do you know the people who were executed weren't punished fairly? newspapers told you so? not everything you read is true, you should have known better.

Yamaraj said:
...why shouldn't China execute the corrupt? At least their leaders are not looting...

sure, they must've been corrupt because china executed them. and when it happens in india, its so unjust.

"it was done for money and medals"

Yamaraj said:
Besides, I consider it more humane to just execute a person than have him die of hunger slowly.

yeah right, kill him now because he's going to die later anyway!

Yamaraj said:
...I don't praise China for her skyscrapers...

is that why you displayed that photograph?

Yamaraj said:
Development does not translate to economy, skyscrapers, standards of living, Mercedes and BMWs, Honda and Hayabusas, ACs and Plasma screens or other materials of hedonistic pleasure.

okay, perhaps you're right about the vehicles and plasma screens, but standard of living and the economy aren't indicators of development? give me a break!

Yamaraj said:
And why shouldn't China execute the corrupt? At least their leaders are not looting the national treasury as ours do.

Who said, china do lootes its people wich is considered as the most imp treasure of a country,official figure is 1000 which includes innocent people who are publicly executed in stadiums in china.There are so many incidents similar j&k in china wich is hidden frm rest of the world,and media is not allowed ter.

Military is not the answer to these problems,the people u called illeterate stupids who votes for the corrupted politicians are the same millions peoples tat u said who dies of hunger.Poverty in india is not developed overnight,we need to fight against corruption n so many countless matters which can hinder our way to future, n which becomes a vry complex matter.
What india need is a revolution in education

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government,unfortunately we do not know anything better.
-Winston Churchill

mediator said:
^ and that means we need to change the thinking of people tooo. People r really getting lazy and don't like to do even simple reading/research. They think whats there in curriculum is sufficient. They don't even bother if it conforms to the facts and that what makes them ignorant. And then they spread their ignorance which well read people term as "rumour" and techies as "FUD"!

Excerpts from NCERT books which potrayed Bhagat singh as terrorist is a good example. Imagine what wud have happened if kids thought of it as a fact.

I wont be surprised if later people start believing to some american phreak who may say that vedas were american creation in early A.Ds!

So for revolutionising education, not only we need to know the latest updates in science and technology but we really also need to think differently, instead of being a stereotype slob, shud have a spirit of questioning and shud know all about Vedas tooo!

Actually I meant to include all this when i said revolution in education. I am well aware of the blunders, the communist historians (historians, hah) have done to our history and will rectify them surely if I ever get the chance.

@ Yam raj

As much thought provoking, as I thought it would be, this thread turned out to be inundated with really inane ideas and arguments, one even going to the extent of suggesting a military rule (sic). I have to say, I am shocked by your understanding of revolution,democracy and freedom.

Firstly it not clear what u mean by "revolution", specially, in the Indian context. U have stated that u r not in favour of armed revolution. But a revolution without arms, ammunition and death, is hard to imagine. If it is so possible, then u r the next Karl Marx.

Secondly, it is not clear if your contempt is against Indian democracy or the democracy as whole. I am tempted to ask u - are u sure u r not confusing governance with electoral process ? I think u r. Cause all the arguments that u have posted r mostly related to governance and very little to electoral process. Governance is the process of running the country and electoral process is all about selecting the right person for the running of the country.

Thirdly, it seems u have a very distorted concept of freedom. Freedom does mean crap on TV. But it also means that u r free to switch it off. Thats the essence of freedom. No one can force feed u, unless u let that happen.

Now lets see if this country needs "revolution". The answer is NO, not in hell. A revolution of the scale, size and contours of Chinese, Vietnamese or Cuban revolution will simply turn the clock, all the way back to Zero. Then, whats the guarantee that those who will seize power will not turn out to be the same as those who, we revolted against. History, unfortunately, is not in favour of the revolutionaries.

Agreed, democracy is not a perfect form of governance. It has its inherent limitations and in a country like ours, where language, culture and perceptions change in every 10 miles that u travel in any direction, it is bound to have some more. Even the great democracies make mistakes, or why else would George.W.Bush be elected for the second time around, but that does not make those democracies redundant.

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Some of us are even suggesting a military rule. Obviously, they have never heard of Hitler or ID Armin or Batista or Pinochet or General Giap or Pol Pot, among others. One look at those tyrants and u will know how military rule looks like.

@ Yamaraj

Do you know that its not because we are a democracy that we are in trouble. Its because we are a very young democracy that we are having the initial democratic hiccups.

Americans did not become world's mightiest country in the first 100 years of democracy, it took above 2 centuries.

After around 600 years of passing of the Magna Carta when the seed of democracy was sown in England, did the British empire rise to its epitome.

Heck we are just a 57 year old republic and a 60 year old democracy, americans fought a civil war after 100 years of becoming a democracy. Look at Canada, its a democracy for around 100 years, Hong Kong around 99 years. Look at the Republic of China (Taiwan as you know it,) born about the same time as People's Republic of China, lives under extreme military threat from the communist chinese, has a ridiculously less area then PRC, only recognised as a diplomatic level by 24 countries, has enough money to feed entire People's Republic of China for a decade because its always been an open democracy.

Dude we have been a democracy for just like sixty years but it was only in the last two decades that our proper economic development start. We are still the largest democracy in the world. Just give the country some time and we will be able to sort our own affairs.

karnivore said:
Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

You said it man,thats the point.

@aliasghark and @karnivore......I request u to please read the debate slowly and carefully...line by line coz when u don't then it only leads to repeations and flames!

Besides, I'm not a communist and neither do I support them. I'll offer them nothing but bullets for eating Indian and singing Chinese. But we need a *strong* government with some geniune will-power and guts to take actions. That's why I keep mentioning China and others.

Post #46

By "revolution", I do not necessarily mean an armed and violent uprising against all.

Post #25

1. Not necessarily a dictator. An ideal government can be a board/panel of a few honest intellectuals like our President, philosophers, top military generals, civil servants and benevolent corporate minds like Narayan Murthi. I don't want a Stalin running this country, either.

Post #8

Now see ur posts

karnivore said:
Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Like said before, revolution doesn't mean u take Ak-47s, act jaahil jehadis and go on a shooting spree! Wasn't the anti-reservation protest a revolution? Why is green revolution called so? Major amendments in education system can aslo be termed as revolution, improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations can also be termed as revolution in India. Have u thought how many jobs it will increase? Have u thought what can happen due to reservation? Why is it in India that rich is going richer and poor going poorer and that gap increasing everyday? Why is it that suicide by farmers increasing everyday. India's base is its agriculture. Have u forgotten that? And that means farmers r no less than precious jewels to us! Then y such misery? People here r saying India's economy is increasing...then y the heck the poor people r not benefitting from it? They implement reservation, thinking absurdly that it will solve the problem, if its economically advanced then why not help the poor people and support their kids in getting primary education so that they can also get same standards as others? I agree India is becoming a military power, but if u can't stop the infiltration by Bangladeshis who set up encroachments, loot electricity and use free water and even getting voting rights here, if they can't stop terrorists from causing deli blast,srinagar blast, mumbai blast, malegaon blast, killings in JnK, then I think that military procurement is just another waste of money. If u read newspapers daily, then u must be knowing that a few officers got bribe from terrorists who caused Mumbai blasts. Y not hang those officers. Law says helping a terrorist is also a terrorist act. Why is salman khan free and njoying even after killing 3 people on road pavement and animals? Why is feroz khan free even after killing an animal from rare species?

Giving examples from china doesn't mean to implement the china like scenario. But y not implement the things they r good at? They r advocating english education? Ever wondered y? Y not we advocate RnD and scientific research establishments? Their no.1 priority it seems is development! Then y can't we act similarly without having a dictator like govt?
Bihar,East India etc have u gone to these parts? Y is it people from rural India migrate to urban India?

But we have our leadership which feels developing afghanistan, providing free medical treatment to Pakis, Visas to pakis so that more of them can flock here and ignoring bangldeshi situation is fine and better than improving the situation in India first! In this regard y not behave like china and give a death threat to bangladeshi immigrants, beefing up the security and identification process so that no misuse of resources can be done?
Y not behave like China and make police officers excercise regularly, Huh they even make children excercise regularly....well I think at skool level a little excericise is Ok!

There's lot more to say, but in short what I'm saying is y not copy the +ve things from other countries irrespective of the type of government? Its not that we have to rely on political parties after all its we, the people who have "elected" them.....well there r some exceptions like MMS (manmohan singh) who r "selected"....how absurd!! Is this a joke or what?

Heck we are just a 57 year old republic and a 60 year old democracy, americans fought a civil war after 100 years of becoming a democracy. Look at Canada, its a democracy for around 100 years, Hong Kong around 99 years. Look at the Republic of China (Taiwan as you know it,) born about the same time as People's Republic of China, lives under extreme military threat from the communist chinese, has a ridiculously less area then PRC, only recognised as a diplomatic level by 24 countries, has enough money to feed entire People's Republic of China for a decade because its always been an open democracy.

57 years IMHO is a lot for a country to become a developed economy. If they took 100 yrs then it doesn't mean that we take 100 yrs too. If one is stewpid then it doesn't mean other is stewpid too. I think we can do much better then them. Do US and Canada allow ships of other nations do dump their waste in coastal waters? If u don't read news then atleast have converstaion with a merchant navy or a navy officer. U'll be surprised by the enlightenment. Do they (US and Canada) allow citizens to encroach freely, get voting rights, loot electricity and water? Do u know how many stages of police identification checks r there and what punishment u can get if u can't prove ur identity? Y is the standard of living of common man in thailand and singapore better than in India?
So I'm not saying to become next US and implement their culture and increase the no. of rapes etc. What I'm saying is we shud increase the security here too "just like they do"!

I think I'll end here. Please think now. Giving examples from other countries doesn't mean that we become that country. As for China, I too don't want a dictator like government as this is real situation of common man in china!!

T

karnivore said:
@ Yam raj

As much thought provoking, as I thought it would be, this thread turned out to be inundated with really inane ideas and arguments, one even going to the extent of suggesting a military rule (sic). I have to say, I am shocked by your understanding of revolution,democracy and freedom.

Firstly it not clear what u mean by "revolution", specially, in the Indian context. U have stated that u r not in favour of armed revolution. But a revolution without arms, ammunition and death, is hard to imagine. If it is so possible, then u r the next Karl Marx.

Secondly, it is not clear if your contempt is against Indian democracy or the democracy as whole. I am tempted to ask u - are u sure u r not confusing governance with electoral process ? I think u r. Cause all the arguments that u have posted r mostly related to governance and very little to electoral process. Governance is the process of running the country and electoral process is all about selecting the right person for the running of the country.

Thirdly, it seems u have a very distorted concept of freedom. Freedom does mean crap on TV. But it also means that u r free to switch it off. Thats the essence of freedom. No one can force feed u, unless u let that happen.

Now lets see if this country needs "revolution". The answer is NO, not in hell. A revolution of the scale, size and contours of Chinese, Vietnamese or Cuban revolution will simply turn the clock, all the way back to Zero. Then, whats the guarantee that those who will seize power will not turn out to be the same as those who, we revolted against. History, unfortunately, is not in favour of the revolutionaries.

Agreed, democracy is not a perfect form of governance. It has its inherent limitations and in a country like ours, where language, culture and perceptions change in every 10 miles that u travel in any direction, it is bound to have some more. Even the great democracies make mistakes, or why else would George.W.Bush be elected for the second time around, but that does not make those democracies redundant.

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Some of us are even suggesting a military rule. Obviously, they have never heard of Hitler or ID Armin or Batista or Pinochet or General Giap or Pol Pot, among others. One look at those tyrants and u will know how military rule looks like.

Military rule need not be sick. Venezula, Thailand are under military control. Military rule need not mean bloodshed and violence. You watch so much of movies.

See here :- *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship

The list of countries that was or is under military rule.

aliasghark said:
india neither needs a dictator, nor is everything perfect.

This is the subject of discussion here.

aliasghark said:
your definition of freedom isn't very accurate either. freedom to do stuff doesn't make it obligatory for you to do that stuff. for example you have the freedom to vote, chat, sleep, cry, whine etc but you are not required by law to do all that stuff. the fact that there are millions of illiterates doesn't necessarily mean the government is at fault. there could be various other causes for the illiteracy.

When I'm using the word "freedom", it's in a philosophical context - for I despise politics and political definitions.

There are millions of illeterates in this country simply because our governments want them to be that way. Literacy would end caste-religion politics, which is exactly what our great politicians are afraid of. Making it impossible to have a decent education for the poor is the same as making it almost impossible to have firearms, by increasing the price unnecessarily and discouraging people from having licenses.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

You can see that our governments haven't changed a bit even after our "independence".

aliasghark said:
how do you know the people who were executed weren't punished fairly? newspapers told you so? not everything you read is true, you should have known better.

sure, they must've been corrupt because china executed them. and when it happens in india, its so unjust. "it was done for money and medals"

Your statements contradict each other, negating everything you said. According to you, it's fair to execute people in "democratic" J&K and NE without giving them a chance of a fair judicial trial. But at the same time, it's unfair for the "communist" China to do the same.

Besides, it appears that you are not very well read. Many officers have been arrested for executing innocents for "money and medal".

aliasghark said:
yeah right, kill him now because he's going to die later anyway!

Mercy killing a dying suicidal peasant is a hundred times better than letting him die slowly of hunger, and not doing anything about it. Which is exactly what our governments have been doing - nothing.

aliasghark said:
is that why you displayed that photograph?

It was displayed because most people here are ignorant of the Chinese development, which is mostly because of our media and government. But there isn't much on news channels except for politics, cricket, bollywood and other equally laughable contents.

aliasghark said:
okay, perhaps you're right about the vehicles and plasma screens, but standard of living and the economy aren't indicators of development? give me a break!

Sure, take a break and think for yourself. If you think that development of a country is only about its economic status in a chart, you're a victim of our modern corporate culture. Economic development is often inversely proportional to ethics, moralily and a sane behaviour.

I despise those who think a nation should be governed like a business. I ridicule the idea of MBAs getting into civil services, or civil servants being trained like business professionals. This is a result of too many businessmen running countries all over the World. Turning this country into a big supermarket would be the biggest mistake ever. And the people will pay the price.

Capitalism turns humans beings into petty objects. You become a consumer, an employee, a voter, a viewer. "To have" replaces "to be" in all contexts of your life. You own, and you are owned. People, who are mesmerized by the materialistic development of countries like US or Japan, often tend to ignore the declining moral, ethical and social values. They conveniently ignore broken families, growing isolated individualism, objectified personalities and violence, depression and insane behaviour on mass level.

I don't want to be a shrinkwrapped "product". Make your own decision.

thunderbird.117 said:
Military rule need not be sick. Venezula, Thailand are under military control. Military rule need not mean bloodshed and violence. You watch so much of movies.
See here :- *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship
The list of countries that was or is under military rule.

Below is frm the link u provided to wikipedia,Military is not like your childhood hero superman.

Military regimes usually have little respect for human rights and use whatever means necessary to silence political opponents

T

cyberboy_kerala said:
Below is frm the link u provided to wikipedia,Military is not like your childhood hero superman.

It is usally. It does not mean all the military will do that.

karnivore said:
@ Yam raj

As much thought provoking, as I thought it would be, this thread turned out to be inundated with really inane ideas and arguments, one even going to the extent of suggesting a military rule (sic). I have to say, I am shocked by your understanding of revolution,democracy and freedom.

Firstly it not clear what u mean by "revolution", specially, in the Indian context. U have stated that u r not in favour of armed revolution. But a revolution without arms, ammunition and death, is hard to imagine. If it is so possible, then u r the next Karl Marx.

Secondly, it is not clear if your contempt is against Indian democracy or the democracy as whole. I am tempted to ask u - are u sure u r not confusing governance with electoral process ? I think u r. Cause all the arguments that u have posted r mostly related to governance and very little to electoral process. Governance is the process of running the country and electoral process is all about selecting the right person for the running of the country.

Thirdly, it seems u have a very distorted concept of freedom. Freedom does mean crap on TV. But it also means that u r free to switch it off. Thats the essence of freedom. No one can force feed u, unless u let that happen.

I suppose many have felt the "shock" you're talking about. But that's because people like you are often institutionalized to the extent that they stop thinking out of their black box. Democracy is not the only form of a good governance. And it often has so many dependencies, it's highly unlikely for a country like India to practically resolve them. How many, in your opinion, are capable of thinking rationally before casting their vote? As I've mentioned before, how many read political menifesto of all the parties? And how many parties follow their own menifesto after forming the government?

I'm not opposed to the idea of an armed revolution. When it becomes clear that a few powerful have hijacked the entire system and use it for their benefit, a peaceful procession doesn't make any sense. Do you really think it's possible to create a new political party today, and convince enough people to think before voting, and still manage to form a government even in a hundred years? If you do - you're naive enough to.

Democracy create chaos and disorder. There is a reason why there is no democracy in military services across the world. There is a reason why children in schools are not asked to vote whether they would like to study or play, in the middle of their maths class.

I have been talking about both the electoral process and governance. You should really read before posting. By the way, are you trying to insist that it's possible to have good governance even if the flawed electoral process selects the wrong candidates?

Sure, you can switch your TV off. But a formed government cannot be undone. An elected murderer minister cannot be recalled.

karnivore said:
Now lets see if this country needs "revolution". The answer is NO, not in hell. A revolution of the scale, size and contours of Chinese, Vietnamese or Cuban revolution will simply turn the clock, all the way back to Zero. Then, whats the guarantee that those who will seize power will not turn out to be the same as those who, we revolted against. History, unfortunately, is not in favour of the revolutionaries.

If you think this country needs no revolution - that's your personal opinion. Why can't we have a revolution "of the scale, size and contours" of India? Since this is neither China, nor Cuba - it makes no sense in comparing apples to oranges.

What's the guarantee that Indian democratic system will clean itself, on its own? From what I see, things are only getting worse every five years.

History has also never been in favor of those who sit quietly on their arses and hope for a divine intervention. Wake up!

karnivore said:
Agreed, democracy is not a perfect form of governance. It has its inherent limitations and in a country like ours, where language, culture and perceptions change in every 10 miles that u travel in any direction, it is bound to have some more. Even the great democracies make mistakes, or why else would George.W.Bush be elected for the second time around, but that does not make those democracies redundant.

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Democracy is just another type of governance. There is nothing "great" about it, particularly in countries like India, where majority is illeterate but yet have a say in electoral process and even gets to elect the candidates.

karnivore said:
Some of us are even suggesting a military rule. Obviously, they have never heard of Hitler or ID Armin or Batista or Pinochet or General Giap or Pol Pot, among others. One look at those tyrants and u will know how military rule looks like.

Yours is the fear of unknown, and for unfair reasons. Why doesn't the French revolution come to your mind, or the American revolution which drove British out? If a violent revolution is such a bad thing, then everything in 1857 was just a bunch of lunatics acting on their violent urges to kill people?

Revolution is seldom beautiful, but it brings required reforms in a short period of time.

cyberboy_kerala said:
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government,unfortunately we do not know anything better.
-Winston Churchill

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."
- Art Spander

Yamaraj said:
Revolution is seldom beautiful, but it brings required reforms in a short period of time.

Yeah,brings reforms to make way to next revolution and the cycle continues

Yamaraj said:
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."
- Art Spander

Do u know anything better, r u the next nobel prize nominee

cyberboy_kerala said:
Do u know anything better, r u the next nobel prize nominee

Your being offensive is a clear indication that you are short of thoughts, ideas and politeness.

Be humble!

@ mediator

mediator said:
Post #46
Post #25
Post #8
quote]

Thats why i asked if revolution without arms, ammunition and bloodshed is possible.

Like said before, revolution doesn't mean u take Ak-47s, act jaahil jehadis and go on a shooting spree! Wasn't the anti-reservation protest a revolution? Why is green revolution called so? Major amendments in education system can aslo be termed as revolution, improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations can also be termed as revolution in India

Click to expand...

U hav absolutely no idea about what revolution is all about. A mass movement can't be
termed as "Revolution". "Green revolution" is a major misnomer. It happened only in the
NW India and is a term used to mean bumper crop harvest and nothing else. As with
amendments in education system,improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations,
are all matters of governance. Only an imbecile will call all of these revolution.

Why is it in India that rich is going richer and poor going poorer and that gap increasing everyday? Why is it that suicide by farmers increasing everyday.

Click to expand...

This is a major concern and though many would say that it is the price of so called
development, i do feel its an issue that needs to be addressed with utmost sincerity.

India's base is its agriculture. Have u forgotten that? And that means farmers r no less than precious jewels to us!

Click to expand...

Please, this is not a fact that merits chest thumping. Agriculture in developed
countries contribute not more than 5% of GDP. In fact declining contribution from
agriculture is in many ways a sign of good economy, provided, there is a proper system
of rehabilitation of farmers. What u guys r conveniently forgetting is that, for about
40 odd yrs we practiced a strange brand of Socialism and its been just about 17 yrs
that we have started having an open economy. We r still in the process of undoing the
wrongs of those 40 yrs.

They implement reservation, thinking absurdly that it will solve the problem, if its economically advanced then why not help the poor people and support their kids in getting primary education so that they can also get same standards as others?

Click to expand...

I agree, that reservation should be based on economics and not on caste.

I agree India is becoming a military power, but if u can't stop the infiltration by Bangladeshis who set up encroachments, loot electricity and use free water and even getting voting rights here, if they can't stop terrorists from causing deli blast,srinagar blast, mumbai blast, malegaon blast, killings in JnK, then I think that military procurement is just another waste of money. If u read newspapers daily, then u must be knowing that a few officers got bribe from terrorists who caused Mumbai blasts.

Click to expand...

Dude, its a law & order problem and not something that army can do much about. Military
does not procure to fight terrorists but to defend from foreign aggression. What the
terrorists want, and so do u, is the military to do the policing job, and break the
morale and dilute army presence in key areas. As with infiltration, it is virtually
impossible to stop. Even the mighty Americans can't prevent infiltration from Mexico or
Cuba. You can well imagine where we stand.

thunderbird

Military rule need not be sick. Venezula, Thailand are under military control. Military rule need not mean bloodshed and violence

Click to expand...

Venezula has a democratically elected president in Hugo Chavez. Military rule is always bloody.

@ Yamraj

Democracy is not the only form of a good governance

Click to expand...

Please name another.

Democracy create chaos and disorder. There is a reason why there is no democracy in military services across the world. There is a reason why children in schools are not asked to vote whether they would like to study or play, in the middle of their maths class.

Click to expand...

Man i do not know what to say to this. It is difficult to reason with an unreasonable mind.

But a formed government cannot be undone. An elected murderer minister cannot be recalled

Click to expand...

Yes it can be done after a period of 5 yrs. In case of dictatorship, NEVER.

Why can't we have a revolution "of the scale, size and contours" of India? Since this is neither China, nor Cuba - it makes no sense in comparing apples to oranges.

Click to expand...

Man, this is sick. If u have to get an idea of something you must have a basis. China, Vietnam and Cuba give us that. Any revolution in India will of course be of the scale, size and contours of India, provided it happens. Till then how do you propose to get a measure of what to expect.

Yours is the fear of unknown, and for unfair reasons. Why doesn't the French revolution come to your mind, or the American revolution which drove British out? If a violent revolution is such a bad thing, then everything in 1857 was just a bunch of lunatics acting on their violent urges to kill people?

Click to expand...

Get your facts right first. What followed French Revolution is termed by historians as "The Reign of Terror". American revolution was against foreign oppressors, not against their own men. Revolution of 1857, is something which is still open to long debates.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."
- Art Spander

Click to expand...

Yet all these people flourished under democracy and virtually no one wanted their own democracies to turn into dictatorships.

U hav absolutely no idea about what revolution is all about.

U did a Ph.D on revolution? So please elaborate without giving any links, in ur own words, in some 250 words about what really revolution is!!

A mass movement can't be
termed as "Revolution". "Green revolution" is a major misnomer. It happened only in the
NW India and is a term used to mean bumper crop harvest and nothing else. As with
amendments in education system,improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations,
are all matters of governance. Only an imbecile will call all of these revolution.

Thanx for the abuse. People who generally r out of words go personal. Shud I assume u have nuthin to speak now? Instead of telling that this is not revolution, u cud have enlightened here about ur Ph.D knowledge! U think earth revolving around SUn is revolution then? Please don't tell next that armed actions by civilians is the only form of revolution!
WHat about non-violence movement by Gandhiji that unified the whole of India? I won't be surprised if u disagree here too!

And please try to be civil!

This is a major concern and though many would say that it is the price of so called
development, i do feel its an issue that needs to be addressed with utmost sincerity.

And who do u think will address these? Politicians like they did in the past 50+ years?

Please, this is not a fact that merits chest thumping. Agriculture in developed
countries contribute not more than 5% of GDP. In fact declining contribution from
agriculture is in many ways a sign of good economy, provided, there is a proper system
of rehabilitation of farmers. What u guys r conveniently forgetting is that, for about
40 odd yrs we practiced a strange brand of Socialism and its been just about 17 yrs
that we have started having an open economy. We r still in the process of undoing the
wrongs of those 40 yrs.

Read!! It will give u some idea!!

Agriculture in India is one of the most prominent sectors in its economy. Agriculture and allied sectors like forestry, logging and fishing accounted for 18.6% of the GDP in 2005 and employed 60% of the country's population[1]. It accounts for 8.56 % of India’s exports. About 43 % of India's geographical area is used for agricultural activity. Despite a steady decline of its share in the GDP, agriculture is still the largest economic sector and plays a significant role in the overall socio-economic development of India.

So Mr.Professor we r not interested in ur fake Ph.D knowledge or in ur expert opinions. So instead of just criticising, making fun of feloow digit members like a stereotype, ignorant basher ...please do some research before making ur next post. So do u want to have a civil discussion or ur mockery? Take ur pic!!

It seems from ur post that u want minimum farming practises in India!! How absurd!

Dude, its a law & order problem and not something that army can do much about. Military
does not procure to fight terrorists but to defend from foreign aggression. What the
terrorists want, and so do u, is the military to do the policing job, and break the
morale and dilute army presence in key areas. As with infiltration, it is virtually
impossible to stop. Even the mighty Americans can't prevent infiltration from Mexico or
Cuba. You can well imagine where we stand.

This explains how well read u r! So y is the military called when there is civil unrest and y r the black cat commandos deployed when a whole skool is taken hostage like in Beslan? Shudn't the fat, bribe hungry police officers be deployed there? Y aren't they deployed? Why is th army sent for rescue missions y not police? Please do some reading now!!
Now for ur theory, y r bangladeshis still there n increasing in numbers in India? Shudn't the govt n police be doing anything about it? Y do terrorists still cross borders? U talk about foreign agression. Isn't porxy war a foreign aggression?
And please, if ur "mighty americans" r that stewpid then it doesn't implies that we act like them and therefore shud forget the matter!

And please try to be civil, else it only shows ur ignorance!

T

karnivore said:
@ mediator

mediator said:

Post #46
Post #25
Post #8
quote]

Venezula has a democratically elected president in Hugo Chavez. Military rule is always bloody.

Click to expand...

He was direct elected on second that is april 13 2002 and present before that he was in military he has staged a military coup to overthrown the before government. For more information read here :- *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chávez. Also iam not talking about a miltary rule at all. Only the indian military can remove the present government no civilians can do it. The politican of india will not listen to them(unarmed people).

U did a Ph.D on revolution? So please elaborate without giving any links, in ur own words, in some 250 words about what really revolution is!!

Read "The State and Revolution" by V.I.Lenin. This will tell u whys, whens and whats of revolution. First digest this book, i will keep recommending u other books from time to time.

WHat about non-violence movement by Gandhiji that unified the whole of India?

I was waiting for this. Name one historian, one reference, one source that says Gandhi's non-violent movement was a "Revolution". Man ignorance, can really be bliss.

It will give u some idea!!

Quote:
Agriculture in India is one of the most prominent sectors in its economy. Agriculture and allied sectors like forestry, logging and fishing accounted for 18.6% of the GDP in 2005 and employed 60% of the country's population[1]. It accounts for 8.56 % of India’s exports. About 43 % of India's geographical area is used for agricultural activity. Despite a steady decline of its share in the GDP, agriculture is still the largest economic sector and plays a significant role in the overall socio-economic development of India.

Precisely my point. We depend heavily on agriculture, which is a hindrance to growth. We still depend on climate for a good produce, and the year in which we have good monsoon, we have good produce and hence a healthy GDP growth rate. This is anything but a matter of pride.

This explains how well read u r! So y is the military called when there is civil unrest and y r the black cat commandos deployed when a whole skool is taken hostage like in Beslan? Shudn't the fat, bribe hungry police officers be deployed there? Y aren't they deployed? Why is th army sent for rescue missions y not police? Please do some reading now!!

That, again, is my point. If u have to involve military in every law and order problem, it means your police is not well equipped. Beslan, and situations like that are unique ones which require special tactics. Thats why US has SWATs who are the civil version of their military commandos. Thats why we have NSGs. This relieves the military of lot of pressure. I am sure u don't have an army man in your family to consult. Just talk to one of them and u will realize, how the army hate to do the police job. Its simply not their job.
About your jab at me knowing everything, let me just say that i was born, brought up and educated in Kolkata. I used to be an active member of a political outfit, which believed in "revolution". U will find it hard to believe that i do have some experience of the electoral process.

thunderbird.117 said:
Also iam not talking about a miltary rule at all. Only the indian military can remove the present government no civilians can do it. The politican of india will not listen to them(unarmed people).

This is exactly what we've been talking about. But the India-is-oh-so-perfect lobby doesn't want to read or understand anything.

Yamaraj said:
There are millions of illeterates in this country simply because our governments want them to be that way.

no, thats not true.

Yamaraj said:
Literacy would end caste-religion politics, which is exactly what our great politicians are afraid of.

like some people in this forum have demonstrated, literacy doesn't always help.

Yamaraj said:
You can see that our governments haven't changed a bit even after our "independence".

you're wrong again.

Yamaraj said:
Your statements contradict each other, negating everything you said.

no they don't. ever heard of sarcasm?

Yamaraj said:
According to you, it's fair to execute people in "democratic" J&K and NE without giving them a chance of a fair judicial trial.

absolutely not. how on earth did you come to that conclusion?

Yamaraj said:
Besides, it appears that you are not very well read...

i've said it before and i'll say it again. not everything you read is true. are you aware that interest and lobby groups exist?

Yamaraj said:
Mercy killing a dying suicidal peasant is a hundred times better than letting him die slowly of hunger, and not doing anything about it. Which is exactly what our governments have been doing - nothing.

i strongly disagree. when you can't help him, at least don't kill him.

Yamaraj said:
It was displayed because most people here are ignorant of the Chinese development, which is mostly because of our media and government.

lol. most readers here i'm sure are discerning, they're cognizant.

Yamaraj said:
But there isn't much on news channels except for politics, cricket, bollywood and other equally laughable contents.

i think cricket is not 'laughable'.

Yamaraj said:
Economic development is often inversely proportional to ethics, moralily and a sane behaviour...

...as often as its not.

Yamaraj said:
I despise those who think a nation should be governed like a business.

i think it might actually be successful when run like a business, provided the business does no evil (think google).

Yamaraj said:
People, who are mesmerized by the materialistic development of countries like US or Japan, often tend to ignore the declining moral, ethical and social values.

that might hold good (to an extent) for the usa, but i'd dispute its the same in japan.

karnivore said:
@ Yamraj

Learn to spell the correct name.

karnivore said:
Please name another.

If you cared to read this thread from the beginning, you would've known.

karnivore said:
Man i do not know what to say to this. It is difficult to reason with an unreasonable mind.

You accept all the shortcomings and fallacies of Indian democracy, but refuse to change still. Who's being obtuse and stubborn?

karnivore said:
Yes it can be done after a period of 5 yrs. In case of dictatorship, NEVER.

No. Five years later, another bunch of losers enters the parliament.

karnivore said:
Man, this is sick. If u have to get an idea of something you must have a basis. China, Vietnam and Cuba give us that. Any revolution in India will of course be of the scale, size and contours of India, provided it happens. Till then how do you propose to get a measure of what to expect.

You're stuck with communism. Get a life!

karnivore said:
Get your facts right first. What followed French Revolution is termed by historians as "The Reign of Terror". American revolution was against foreign oppressors, not against their own men. Revolution of 1857, is something which is still open to long debates.

If executing corrupt and traitors is labelled as "Reign of Terror", I have no problem with one. Many Americans also fought along side their British masters in American revolution, not unlike our own.

karnivore said:
Yet all these people flourished under democracy and virtually no one wanted their own democracies to turn into dictatorships.

I can't say for sure whether they would've preferred another system, for I never had a chance to talk to any. But I'm sure they knew more about democracy that you do. Otherwise, they wouldn't have commented to look like fools later on.

karnivore said:
Read "The State and Revolution" by V.I.Lenin. This will tell u whys, whens and whats of revolution. First digest this book, i will keep recommending u other books from time to time.

Lenin didn't invent revolution.

-------------

aliasghark said:
no, thats not true.

What makes you think so?

aliasghark said:
like some people in this forum have demonstrated, literacy doesn't always help.

You're being too harsh on yourself.

aliasghark said:
you're wrong again.

You're wasting your keystrokes. Either state a valid reason or keep it to yourself.

You purposely ignored the context.

aliasghark said:
no they don't. ever heard of sarcasm?

There is nothing sarcastic in being stupid. Read that part of your post again. Here's what you wrote about the police and army executing people in India, and the same in China:

how do you know the people who were executed weren't punished fairly? newspapers told you so? not everything you read is true, you should have known better.

sure, they must've been corrupt because china executed them. and when it happens in india, its so unjust. "it was done for money and medals"

aliasghark said:
absolutely not. how on earth did you come to that conclusion?

See above.

aliasghark said:
i've said it before and i'll say it again. not everything you read is true. are you aware that interest and lobby groups exist?

Not everything you read is true either. I form my own opinions, and surely not based on television.

aliasghark said:
i strongly disagree. when you can't help him, at least don't kill him.

Tell that to your government. They killed thousands this way.

aliasghark said:
lol. most readers here i'm sure are discerning, they're cognizant.

I concur!

aliasghark said:
i think cricket is not 'laughable'.

It is.

aliasghark said:
...as often as its not.

At least pretend to look concerned.

aliasghark said:
i think it might actually be successful when run like a business, provided the business does no evil (think google).

How about running a family like a business?

aliasghark said:
that might hold good (to an extent) for the usa, but i'd dispute its the same in japan.

You're being ignorant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Please name another.

If you cared to read this thread from the beginning, you would've known.

I have read the entire thread and the only alternative that u could come up with is a dictatorial regime. So far, the world is yet to see a dictator that is not a tyrant. And please elaborate with historically correct examples, how dictatorship is better than democracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Man, this is sick. If u have to get an idea of something you must have a basis. China, Vietnam and Cuba give us that. Any revolution in India will of course be of the scale, size and contours of India, provided it happens. Till then how do you propose to get a measure of what to expect.

You're stuck with communism. Get a life!

Once again your hollowness is evident. You r talking of revolution but don't want to look at the communist revolutions. Today u r talking of revolution, because the communists are the only ones who carried out revolution with success. Although, post revolution, communist history is of only terror and everything that goes with it. The point is that u can't afford to overlook these events and still talk revolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Get your facts right first. What followed French Revolution is termed by historians as "The Reign of Terror". American revolution was against foreign oppressors, not against their own men. Revolution of 1857, is something which is still open to long debates.

If executing corrupt and traitors is labelled as "Reign of Terror", I have no problem with one. Many Americans also fought along side their British masters in American revolution, not unlike our own.

First read about "Reign of Terror" and then make comments. And please not the wiki. Grab a book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Yet all these people flourished under democracy and virtually no one wanted their own democracies to turn into dictatorships.

I can't say for sure whether they would've preferred another system, for I never had a chance to talk to any. But I'm sure they knew more about democracy that you do. Otherwise, they wouldn't have commented to look like fools later on.

For that u would have to read these men and not depend on wikipedia. I wonder how much of Shaw u have really read. Besides, these quotes have been ripped completely out of context and hence completely misleading. And one more thing. Please don't make quotes that suite u and ingnore those that contradicts. Chulrchill for one, was a shameless lackey of the manarchy, the man had a gut wrenching contempt for Indians and Indian freedom struggle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Read "The State and Revolution" by V.I.Lenin. This will tell u whys, whens and whats of revolution. First digest this book, i will keep recommending u other books from time to time.

Lenin didn't invent revolution.

Of course not. Its just that he showed the world how organise one. Once again hollowness in display.

karnivore said:
Read "The State and Revolution" by V.I.Lenin. This will tell u whys, whens and whats of revolution. First digest this book, i will keep recommending u other books from time to time.

U already showed ur ignorance and how much of ur opinion is based on the thoughts of others. I request u to have some independent thinking and some social outlook instead of telling how brainwashed u r by a particular book! I hope u understand independent thinking is the first step towards a civilised society,democracy and being a good citizen!!

I told u to say some words and here u r telling me to read some book? I didn't expect a professor who already read a book to be speechless already!

karnivore said:
I was waiting for this. Name one historian, one reference, one source that says Gandhi's non-violent movement was a "Revolution". Man ignorance, can really be bliss.

It seems google isn't ur best friend!!
*www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US

fficial&hs=r3p&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=revolution+by+gandhi&spell=1
*www.vov.com/leaders/gandhi.html
*falcon.jmu.edu/~omearawm/ph101gandhi.html
*www.amazon.com/Gandhi-Voice-New-Age-Revolution/dp/0826406203
*www.peaceworkmagazine.org/node/236
*www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/masters/mahatma-gandhi/dandi-march.asp

Mahatma Gandhi's Nonviolent Revolution

"Gandhi continues what the Buddha began.
In the Buddha the spirit of love set itself the task
of creating different spiritual conditions in the world;
in Gandhi it undertakes to transform all worldly conditions."
Albert Schweitzer

"Nonviolence is the law of our species
as violence is the law of the brute.
The spirit lies dormant in the brute,
and he knows no law but that of physical might.
The dignity of man requires obedience to a higher law -
to the strength of the spirit."
Mahatma Gandhi

"If man will only realize
that it is unmanly to obey laws that are unjust,
no man's tyranny will enslave him."
Mahatma Gandhi

"There can be no inward peace without true knowledge."
Mahatma Gandhi

"Science of war leads one to dictatorship pure and simple.
Science of nonviolence can alone lead one to pure democracy."
Mahatma Gandhi

"For self-defense, I would restore the spiritual culture.
The best and most lasting self-defense is self-purification."
Mahatma Gandhi

Later in 1906, however, Gandhi began his peaceful revolution. He declared he would go to jail or even die before obeying an anti-Asian law. Thousands of Indians joined him in this civil disobedience campaign. He was imprisoned twice. Yet in World War I he again organized an ambulance corps for the British before returning home to India in 1914

The Salt March gave the world the idea of mass nonviolence in politics. It was also a living sermon to the country, which was heard by many and changed many. That sermon speaks to us just as loudly in the new millennium. The revolution that Gandhi sought to achieve was not merely political. It was also social.

karnivore said:
I was waiting for this

For some enlightenment or some mockery?...take ur pic!

karnivore said:
Precisely my point. We depend heavily on agriculture, which is a hindrance to growth. We still depend on climate for a good produce, and the year in which we have good monsoon, we have good produce and hence a healthy GDP growth rate. This is anything but a matter of pride.

And that is precisely my point that it doesn't mean we stop caring about farmers, ignore the issue and hit the axe on our own foot! And growth doesn't necessarily means high rise buildings etc as explained by another member here!
Why not implement 2 family norm? That wud help decrease the population and hence consumption of resources, rising of the prices, a stability in demand and supply, poverty, illiteracy, crime etc!
Y not setup good educational institutions in rural areas, setup uf factories, RnDs there?....that wud stop rural people coming to urban areas in large numbers and then creating tensions like lack of living space, overload of buses,metros, traffic load etc.

karnivore said:
That, again, is my point. If u have to involve military in every law and order problem, it means your police is not well equipped.

That, again, is my point. If u think police is not well equipped, then y not train them? Y not make them excercise like they do in China,US and make the crime profile a lot better in India? But I don't think the police isn't well equipped. Its all about corruption and we all have experienced that in policemen at some stage or another! Army is so wonderfully equipped, but then what cud be done if an army officer gets bribed by Let men and those men r cleared!
And I assure u I have armymen in my joint family too!

karnivore said:
Beslan, and situations like that are unique ones which require special tactics. Thats why US has SWATs who are the civil version of their military commandos. Thats why we have NSGs. This relieves the military of lot of pressure. I am sure u don't have an army man in your family to consult. Just talk to one of them and u will realize, how the army hate to do the police job. Its simply not their job.

And so I'm sure u don't read articles in newspapers regularly about how well trained, heavily equipped armymen get bribed and Let men r cleared off! So U may consult ur army man in ur family and get some enlightenment this time!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Yes it can be done after a period of 5 yrs. In case of dictatorship, NEVER.

No. Five years later, another bunch of losers enters the parliament.

Once again u proved, rationale is a concept lost on many. The point i was trying to make was that, democracy gives u the opportunity to rectify your mistake. Dictatorship does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird.117
Also iam not talking about a miltary rule at all. Only the indian military can remove the present government no civilians can do it. The politican of india will not listen to them(unarmed people).

This is exactly what we've been talking about. But the India-is-oh-so-perfect lobby doesn't want to read or understand anything.

You are one messed up confused dude. Take a look at your earlier post.

By "revolution", I do not necessarily mean an armed and violent uprising against all.

First u say u don't want violent uprising and then u say military rule is all that u want. How do u expect military to seize power. Simply walk into the Parliament and claim power. SEEESH.
There's a limit to stupidity.

karnivore said:
I have read the entire thread and the only alternative that u could come up with is a dictatorial regime. So far, the world is yet to see a dictator that is not a tyrant. And please elaborate with historically correct examples, how dictatorship is better than democracy.

Your rheoterics are starting to get annoying. And you didn't read my posts, or even where Mediator quoted me.

karnivore said:
Once again your hollowness is evident. You r talking of revolution but don't want to look at the communist revolutions. Today u r talking of revolution, because the communists are the only ones who carried out revolution with success. Although, post revolution, communist history is of only terror and everything that goes with it. The point is that u can't afford to overlook these events and still talk revolution.

Your knowledge of history goes only as far as a few hundred years back. I can't blame you.

karnivore said:
First read about "Reign of Terror" and then make comments. And please not the wiki. Grab a book.

I'm not one of those illeterates, and I've studied the French Revolution.

karnivore said:
For that u would have to read these men and not depend on wikipedia. I wonder how much of Shaw u have really read. Besides, these quotes have been ripped completely out of context and hence completely misleading. And one more thing. Please don't make quotes that suite u and ingnore those that contradicts. Chulrchill for one, was a shameless lackey of the manarchy, the man had a gut wrenching contempt for Indians and Indian freedom struggle.

Shaw is probably turning in his grave from watching all his fans writing 'u' and 'r' all the time. I know Churchill was a ba$tard, but the quotes were only meant to be a suitable reply to another, if you cared enough to notice.

karnivore said:
Of course not. Its just that he showed the world how organise one. Once again hollowness in display.

Ever heard of Julius Caesar? He freed Rome of corrupt politicians and still didn't turn into a blood thirsty dictator. And those were some evil politicians who assassinated him right inside his senate. Politicians have always been the same - evil, greedy, corrupt and insane.

Putin is another example.

T

karnivore said:
You are one messed up confused dude. Take a look at your earlier post.

Yea right. You are the one who is confused. Take a clear look what i meant to said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Read "The State and Revolution" by V.I.Lenin. This will tell u whys, whens and whats of revolution. First digest this book, i will keep recommending u other books from time to time.

U already showed ur ignorance and how much of ur opinion is based on the thoughts of others. I request u to have some independent thinking and some social outlook instead of telling how brainwashed u r by a particular book! I hope u understand independent thinking is the first step to wards a civilised society,democracy and being a good citizen!!

I told u to say some words and here u r telling me to read some book? I didn't expect a professor who already read a book to be speechless already!

What can u expect from a generation that depends on Wiki and Google to learn. U guys r happy with a truncated view of everything.

It seems google isn't ur best friend!!
*www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&hs=r3p&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=resul t&cd=1&q=revolution+by+gandhi&spell=1
*www.vov.com/leaders/gandhi.html
*falcon.jmu.edu/~omearawm/ph101gandhi.html
*www.amazon.com/Gandhi-Voice-N.../dp/0826406203
*www.peaceworkmagazine.org/node/236
*www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/m...andi-march.asp

Quote:
Mahatma Gandhi's Nonviolent Revolution

"Gandhi continues what the Buddha began.
In the Buddha the spirit of love set itself the task
of creating different spiritual conditions in the world;
in Gandhi it undertakes to transform all worldly conditions."
Albert Schweitzer

"Nonviolence is the law of our species
as violence is the law of the brute.
The spirit lies dormant in the brute,
and he knows no law but that of physical might.
The dignity of man requires obedience to a higher law -
to the strength of the spirit."
Mahatma Gandhi

"If man will only realize
that it is unmanly to obey laws that are unjust,
no man's tyranny will enslave him."
Mahatma Gandhi

"There can be no inward peace without true knowledge."
Mahatma Gandhi

"Science of war leads one to dictatorship pure and simple.
Science of nonviolence can alone lead one to pure democracy."
Mahatma Gandhi

"For self-defense, I would restore the spiritual culture.
The best and most lasting self-defense is self-purification."
Mahatma Gandhi

So what do u do find about the "revolution" of Gandhi. U google. No doubt u come up with articles like that. U can certainly do better than that. "Revolution" is used as a symbol for a "mass movement", as "change", as an "appeal". Indeed, the concept of non-violence was a "revolution", in a world that was torn apart by wars and violence. But to conclude "Indian Freedom Struggle" as a revolution is just too much. Have u ever heard of anybody referring to "Indian Revolution" except for the events of 1857. Notice carefully, even that event was an act of violence. U should Gandhi's life written by Raja Gopalacharya, and, probably then u will realise what i mean. And certain other things that u will learn will probably shock u. Take for example, Gandhi's decision to cooperate with the British during WW-II.
U just can't have a "revolution" without violence. The basic concept of revolution is forcefully overthrowing a regime. How can one do that without bloodshed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Precisely my point. We depend heavily on agriculture, which is a hindrance to growth. We still depend on climate for a good produce, and the year in which we have good monsoon, we have good produce and hence a healthy GDP growth rate. This is anything but a matter of pride.

And that is precisely my point that it doesn't mean we stop caring about farmers, ignore the issue and hit the axe on our own foot! And growth doesn't necessarily means high rise buildings etc as explained by another member here!
Why not implement 2 family norm? That wud help decrease the population and hence consumption of resources, rising of the prices, a stability in demand and supply, poverty, illiteracy, crime etc!
Y not setup good educational institutions in rural areas, setup uf factories, RnDs there?....that wud stop rural people coming to urban areas in large numbers and then creating tensions like lack of living space, overload of buses,metros, traffic load etc.

U sound so much like the Chinese. A villager would need a working permission to enter the cities in their own country.
Yes i want farmers not to remain farmers for generations. Agriculture is a "disguised unemployment", filled with uncertainties. The more we can reduce the number of people depending on agriculture, the more we can really move towards being "developed".
And no, i don't want to ignore the farmers. Only a fool would do that.

karnivore said:
Once again u proved, rationale is a concept lost on many. The point i was trying to make was that, democracy gives u the opportunity to rectify your mistake. Dictatorship does not.

Dictatorship spares you from making mistakes in first place.

karnivore said:
First u say u don't want violent uprising and then u say military rule is all that u want. How do u expect military to seize power. Simply walk into the Parliament and claim power. SEEESH.
There's a limit to stupidity.

You can read English, can't you? Taking help of military to arrest politicians isn't equivalent to giving them powers to rule over this country.

For those, who either don't want to read [long] posts, or purposely ignore them:

An ideal government will consist of a benevolent board/panel of experts, philosophers, scientists like APJ, and benevolent buisnessmen like Narayan Murthy, military generals, educationists, economists, farmers, entrepreneurs, students and representatives of all social classes. There won't be a place for dirty politics and evil politicians. No corruption will be tolerated and traitors will face martial law. Everyone will have equal and high-quality education, and there will be no reservation. There will be one law for all, regardless of religion, caste, gender or anything else. Government will not recognize any religion or caste officially. Entire bureaucracy will be refabricated to suite Indian environment.

This is by no means a comprehensive list or menifesto of an ideal government of my dreams. But I can assure you that things will only get better. And there's no way to know until and unless we give it a try.

If you didn't know, 96% of MPs are multi-millionires. And that's only the amount officially decared by them in 2004 elections. How many of them, do you think, actually care our lower and middle class? How many give a rodent's rear about suiciding farmers, illeterate children, heavily taxed middle-class, and ever increasing crime against defenceless people?

Even our military has fallen prey to their buttering and greasing. All retired military generals and other officials have talked about it. But they can do nothing without an extensive civilian support. And this exactly what I'm trying to experiment here. To see if people are ready to change for the good, and to see if they're honest to themselves.

You can ridicule me all you want and you can call me names for thinking about the unthinkable. But at least, I am thinking about it. Ever heard of the Butterfly Effect? Little wings of a butterfly in Brazil can set off a tornado in Texas. My thoughts can change the system - if you're ready to change yourselves.

Your rheoterics are starting to get annoying.

Thats the symptom of running out of valid logic.

Ever heard of Julius Caesar? He freed Rome of corrupt politicians and still didn't turn into a blood thirsty dictator. And those were some evil politicians who assassinated him right inside his senate.

Surely u r not a student of political sciences. And surely u don't know the difference between "Seizure of Power", "Coup d'etat" and your pet "revolution". The example u have sited is an example of one of the earliest Coupe d'etat, not of Revolution. No wonder why u talk of "revolution". Cause u don't have clue. Once again, get your facts right.

You can ridicule me all you want and you can call me names for thinking about the unthinkable. But at least, I am thinking about it. Ever heard of the Butterfly Effect? Little wings of a butterfly in Brazil can set off a tornado in Texas. My thoughts can change the system - if you're ready to change yourselves.

Ok dude. U win. I loose. Can't take this torture any more. It is impossible to bring an insane to his senses.

karnivore said:
What can u expect from a generation that depends on Wiki and Google to learn. U guys r happy with a truncated view of everything.

A few words from dried lips? Have some juice! Where do u learn from...by telepathy? I don't think so many links,reliable websites (wiki is just to give u an idea...u can always google for more), tv news channels that conform with each other will tell a lie. What do u think professor? Is a simple request of asking u to have some counselling with that army man in ur family taking a toll on ur mind?

So what do u do find about the "revolution" of Gandhi.

Why do u find reading slowly and carefully so hard? Prestigious fight club is not for emotional dudes and softies like u, u know!

karnivore said:
No doubt u come up with articles like that. U can certainly do better than that. "Revolution" is used as a symbol for a "mass movement", as "change", as an "appeal". Indeed, the concept of non-violence was a "revolution", in a world that was torn apart by wars and violence. But to conclude "Indian Freedom Struggle" as a revolution is just too much. Have u ever heard of anybody referring to "Indian Revolution" except for the events of 1857. Notice carefully, even that event was an act of violence. U should Gandhi's life written by Raja Gopalacharya, and, probably then u will realise what i mean. And certain other things that u will learn will probably shock u. Take for example, Gandhi's decision to cooperate with the British during WW-II.
bloodshed.

Ofcors "revolution" can be with violence tooo. When did I deny that? But I fail to understand that y is our Ph.D professor inspite of being given so many links to read is being speechless and repeating his words all the time? R u out of words that ur repeating same statement?

karnivore said:
U just can't have a "revolution" without violence. The basic concept of revolution is forcefully overthrowing a regime. How can one do that without

Yea...we heard ur expert opinion before too! Try to say something different next time instead of just saying "No, For god sake u have to believe me that revolution can't be without violence"! Stop whining now!

karnivore said:
U sound so much like the Chinese. A villager would need a working permission to enter the cities in their own country.

Is that ur desperate attempt to divert the topic and hide the show of ur ignorance? Who did ever mention anything about "working permission to enter the cities in their own country"? Try to quote me if I ever said that! U r not just being ignorant now but also very amusing! How cute!

karnivore said:
Yes i want farmers not to remain farmers for generations. Agriculture is a "disguised unemployment", filled with uncertainties. The more we can reduce the number of people depending on agriculture, the more we can really move towards being "developed".

Another show of ur ignorance? U surely haven't seen or ever read about how wealthy the punjabi and haryanvi farmers r...have u? Go do some research now. U talk like an NRI who is seduced by the "eye-candy" of the west and doesn't have even iota of knowledge about his motherland!

Its a famous saying in Hindi "gali ka kutta na ghar ka na ghat ka". Bring a revolution in urself and know its meaning.

And no, i don't want to ignore the farmers. Only a fool would do that.

How ironic! Previously u said something about rehabilitation. U mean to snatch their interest, their jobs and treat them like diseased or as some victim of natural calamity? How absurd! Y not support them, provide them technologically advanced equipments for free or at subsidised prices? I hope our wonderfully rising economy can withstand that much pressure atleast! ANd its not actually a loss that our economy will suffer from, its an investment to improve the life of farmers and hence in turn our economy as whole. No matter how much agriculture contributes to the economy (correct figures in one of my previous posts), but as a whole its huge, a big segment of a very big/bigger thing.

karnivore said:
Ok dude. U win. I loose. Can't take this torture any more. It is impossible to bring an insane to his senses.

Ahh, I thought the job of a professor is to enlighten everyone and not to chicken out of a discussion in between!

And so please don't go on repeating same things again n again. U asked for "even one" reference/link so confidently. I gave u plenty. I hope u didn't mean scanned articles from some books or newspaper...did u? Did u even read those links? U were already mocked for not reading this thread from the start. Please do some research now before further showing ur misery!

karnivore said:
Thats the symptom of running out of valid logic.

I didn't see any logic in your stupidity.

karnivore said:
Surely u r not a student of political sciences. And surely u don't know the difference between "Seizure of Power", "Coup d'etat" and your pet "revolution". The example u have sited is an example of one of the earliest Coupe d'etat, not of Revolution. No wonder why u talk of "revolution". Cause u don't have clue. Once again, get your facts right.

Your definition of "revolution" is different from what experts have to say.

A revolution is a significant change that usually occurs in a relatively short period of time.

Sounds simple enough? No doubt you have never heard of the "Roman Revolution". Read about it, Mr. Professor of Political Sciences: -

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roman_Revolution
*history.boisestate.edu/WESTCIV/romanrev/26.shtml

karnivore said:
Ok dude. U win. I loose. Can't take this torture any more. It is impossible to bring an insane to his senses.

Fine! Go back to the cave where you came from.

karnivore said:
Yes i want farmers not to remain farmers for generations. Agriculture is a "disguised unemployment", filled with uncertainties. The more we can reduce the number of people depending on agriculture, the more we can really move towards being "developed".

Un-fscking-believable infinite stupidity! People like you ought to be eliminated from our gene pool.

What "development" are you talking about without agriculture? Do you even know that food isn't designed on computers and produced by HP printers? It's "grown" in fields.

Happy eating plastics and drinking sewage in your "developed" country, caveman!

Why not implement 2 family norm? That wud help decrease the population and hence consumption of resources, rising of the prices, a stability in demand and supply, poverty, illiteracy, crime etc!
Y not setup good educational institutions in rural areas, setup uf factories, RnDs there?....that wud stop rural people coming to urban areas in large numbers and then creating tensions like lack of living space, overload of buses,metros, traffic load etc.

There u go. The Chinese implemented the Permission system for the same reasons as to "stop rural people coming to urban areas in large numbers and then creating tensions like lack of living space, overload of buses,metros, traffic load" and make sure that their cities look good in photos.

Yea...we heard ur expert opinion before too! Try to say something different next time..................Stop whining now!

The same can be said to u too, dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karnivore
Yes i want farmers not to remain farmers for generations. Agriculture is a "disguised unemployment", filled with uncertainties. The more we can reduce the number of people depending on agriculture, the more we can really move towards being "developed".

Another show of ur ignorance? U surely haven't seen or ever read about how wealthy the punjabi and haryanvi farmers r...have u? Go do some research now. U talk like an NRI who is seduced by the "eye-candy" of the west and doesn't have even iota of knowledge about his motherland!

Its a famous saying in Hindi "gali ka kutta na ghar ka na ghat ka". Bring a revolution in urself and know its meaning.

Hang on............let me catch my breathe. I am about to die laughing. Let me get this equation straight.
Haryana + Punjub = India. :))

So what about the dying farmers. OH i got it, just a NRI propaganda.

"disguised unemployment" is a well recognized and accepted term in economics. Obviously your Wiki did not have that info.

And so please don't go on repeating same things again n again. U asked for "even one" reference/link so confidently. I gave u plenty. I hope u didn't mean scanned articles from some books or newspaper...did u? Did u even read those links? U were already mocked for not reading this thread from the start. Please do some research now before further showing ur misery!

Obviously, books are alien to u. And i thought i explained what "revolution" meant, in the context of Gandhi. If u still don't get it, its not my fault.

Un-fscking-believable infinite stupidity! People like you ought to be eliminated from our gene pool.

What "development" are you talking about without agriculture? Do you even know that food isn't designed on computers and produced by HP printers? It's "grown" in fields.

Happy eating plastics and drinking sewage in your "developed" country, caveman!

U r spewing bullcrap like u have it in abundance. Japan's economy gets less than 4% contribution from agriculture and a little over 1% of their population is dependent on agriculture. In case of US its 5% and 2%. The scenario is same through out Europe.

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, before u remove me from gene-pool. And welcome to the world of Economics.

karnivore said:
U r spewing bullcrap like u have it in abundance. Japan's economy gets less than 4% contribution from agriculture and a little over 1% of their population is dependent on agriculture. In case of US its 5% and 2%. The scenario is same through out Europe.

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, before u remove me from gene-pool. And welcome to the world of Economics.

Japan doesn't have 1.1 billion people to feed. I didn't know economics could make you sound stupid so much. Learn to look past %, $ and "economy". And, 100% of Japs are dependent on agriculture, because they're not robots yet.

Yamaraj said:
Japan doesn't have 1.1 billion people to feed. I didn't know economics could make you sound stupid so much. Learn to look past %, $ and "economy". And, 100% of Japs are dependent on agriculture, because they're not robots yet.

Dude i gave u "%" not any absolute figure. So now i have teach u maths also and explain the benefits of quoting figures in percentage.
True 100% of Japs will have to eat to survive, but that does not mean that over 60% of them, as in India, will have to grow food. Thats the point i am trying to make. Decrease the number of persons directly dependant on agriculture, rehabilitate them so they get equal opportunity as we city slickers get and we won't need Revolution. Its easier said than done, but that is the one and only solution.

T

Unless India get attacked from nuclear warfare or biological weapons where countless people will die due to foolishness of government due to their support and talk about peace and prosperity with mainly pakistan and other countries like bangladesh this two countries shall keep sending terrorist and destroying india piece by piece. Till then you people shall not learn. Your trust with government is useless. They shall not do nothing.

It is your wish has indian citizen either protect your country or be a witness of countless people that will die in coming days.

Other question?. What should china do if they were in our condition. Would they keep talking with pakistan about and posperity or would they destroy them?. Yamaraj has have already spoken in this part. Now do yours.

Or learn a bitter lesson. Do you want india to be a islamic state or do you want india to keep on being seperated has what happened to pakistan and bangaldesh?.

karnivore said:
There u go. The Chinese implemented the Permission system for the same reasons as to "stop rural people coming to urban areas in large numbers and then creating tensions like lack of living space, overload of buses,metros, traffic load" and make sure that their cities look good in photos.

Please professor I really can't argue with people who can't read and interpret things.
I already said in one of the first posts of mine, that we shud ape +ve things from other countries without even getting concerned about the type of government. Wat is there so helpful in deploying a stewpid permission system...so that the deprived people do an armed revolt? It definitely makes urban areas better, but what about rural areas?
All I said is to develop the rural areas too without having much toll on ecosystem that wud help the rural as well as urban areas and help reduce so many problems like I said before!

karnivore said:
Hang on............let me catch my breathe. I am about to die laughing. Let me get this equation straight.
Haryana + Punjub = India.
So what about the dying farmers. OH i got it, just a NRI propaganda.

"disguised unemployment" is a well recognized and accepted term in economics. Obviously your Wiki did not have that info.

I think u r quite used to ur mockery! Let me quote it again for u.

Agriculture in India is one of the most prominent sectors in its economy. Agriculture and allied sectors like forestry, logging and fishing accounted for 18.6% of the GDP in 2005 and employed 60% of the country's population[1]. It accounts for 8.56 % of India’s exports. About 43 % of India's geographical area is used for agricultural activity. Despite a steady decline of its share in the GDP, agriculture is still the largest economic sector and plays a significant role in the overall socio-economic development of India.

So does Haryana+Punjab = 43% of India's geographical area? I really pity ur aptitude and calculations. Its quite confirmed now, that u don't know both about wealthy and poor farmers in other parts of India. Its like if i say plenty of delhities r wealthy and if I ask for improvement of poor people, then u interpret it as there is no poor in Delhi and whole of India! It seems ur laughing on ur own ignorance now! Laugh as much as u can....coz its really getting entertaining for me and others r reading ur ignorance!

karnivore said:
Obviously, books are alien to u. And i thought i explained what "revolution" meant, in the context of Gandhi. If u still don't get it, its not my fault.

Now this is hilarious! A fake professor faking his Ph.D degree comes without even reading the debate from the start and says revolution is all about going on a chain saw massacre, repeats his statements, tells the name of a book which brainwashed him....haha, and thus shows how much independent thinker he really is, inspite of being given so many links calls them "all" a lie, again whines about his revolution definition and at the end says I explained my ignorance and "If u still don't get it, its not my fault. Haha.....u shud work for jokes2000.com!! As nobody wants trolls around here who can't back what they r saying.

Since u r so interested "only" in books and don't like to conform the matter with various other sources, then U shud read harry potter. That wud interest u even further and give u some more stuff to plagiarize and to later whine about!

I don't understand what prevent u to debate in a open minded, civil manner...is it ur ego that prevented u from googling or reading the links I gave? :sad:

Yamaraj said:
You're wasting your keystrokes.

no i'm not. just trying to get you back to your senses (if any

)

Yamaraj:Mercy killing a dying suicidal peasant is a hundred times better than letting him die slowly of hunger, and not doing anything about it. Which is exactly what our governments have been doing - nothing.
aliasghark:i strongly disagree. when you can't help him, at least don't kill him.
Yamaraj:Tell that to your government. They killed thousands this way.

now this is the height of insanity. you are now accusing the government of doing exactly the same thing you kept advocating! (wasn't the government supposed to be doing 'nothing'?)

aliasghark:is that why you displayed that photograph?
Yamaraj:It was displayed because most people here are ignorant of the Chinese development, which is mostly because of our media and government.
aliasghark:lol. most readers here i'm sure are discerning, they're cognizant
Yamaraj:I concur!

huh? i thought you meant what you said in your previous post

Yamaraj said:
It is.

no its not

Yamaraj said:
At least pretend to look concerned.

i'm sorry, i refuse to join your band of pretenders

Yamaraj said:
How about running a family like a business?

how about it?

Yamaraj said:
You're being ignorant.

nope, that would be you.

Yamaraj said:
Learn to spell the correct name.

are you offended if you're called yamraj?

Yamaraj said:
Your knowledge of history goes only as far as a few hundred years back. I can't blame you.

your knowledge of history on the other hand, doesn't even go back two complete days. as illustrated in the quotes above, you kept changing sides more often than bush mocks the law

Yamaraj said:
An ideal government will consist of a benevolent board/panel of experts

yeah, and who's going to decide who the experts are? (go back to square 1: elections)

yamaraj, you poor little chap, i pity you.

why don't you do everyone (including yourself) a favor and return to tora bora? you won't need to worry about the idiot box there. there wouldn't be any, at your native place. not in your hut, nor your neighbors'. and of course it won't be easy to access the net, but you'll have to learn to deal with it. its for your own good.

Yesterday i met Mr Moron. Haven't seen him lately, so i was really intrigued. As i walked to him, i realized he was busy doing something amazing. It seemed like he was sniffing his.......er......his behind. Now if u look at the dynamics, sniffing one's own butt is an impossibility for a human being, unless of course, if u r carrying the unevolved gene of your prehistoric ancestor.

Hey buddy what r u upto ?
- I am looking for a solution for India's problem.

In your.........behind ?
- SSSHHHH........not so loud. Don't tell this to anybody. Something went wrong in the evolutionary process and i ended up with my brains in my........er.......butt. Now everytime i try to think i spew crap all over the place.

Oh, evolution has been pretty unfair to u. Anyway, how do u propose we solve this problem ?
- We should organize a revolution. Bloody or otherwise. Its the only solution.

Can u please elaborate ?
- We should ask our military to arrest our corrupt ministers. To hell with Constitution, to hell with Judiciary, to hell with legislature and to hell with electorate.

U think it can be done that way ?
- Of course. Running a country is just like a computer game. U don't like the game ? Simple. Uninstall. U don't like the regime ? Simple. Organise a revolution.

BTW, how should the military make arrests ?
-Who cares. We will ask them to.

Err, did u know that military can't take suo motu actions ? It needs permission of the Parliament ? Also military cannot make civil arrests ? It lies only with the police ? If it still goes ahead and does that, it will be called coup d'tat ?
-Coup what. Hang on a sec. Let me google that. But then again, who cares. They will do what we ask them to do. They are my paternal property.

Did u know that India did come close to a dictatorial rule ? It was Ms Indira Gandhi who declared "Emergency" and brought India to the brink of what u want ? No one in India had a pleasant experience at that time ?
-Who cares. We want military rule, bus, thats it. Your logic stinks.

The world is yet to see a benevolent military regime. Can u name one ?
-Let me Google that.

Suddenly, i felt a terrible urge to puke, don't know why. Probably indigestion. Got to buy 10 Eno packs. One would be of no help.

But don't u think that a revolution is just too much for India to handle right now ?
- Come on we did that before, we can do it again.

We did that before ?
- Of course. Gandhi did that. HE was a "revolutionist"

Where did u get that ?
- Why, from Wiki and Google. These are extremely reliable sites.

Err, they were referring the concept of non-violence, "revolutionary", the mass civil movement, "revolutionary", as in "spectacular", as in "refreshingly different from the war torn world that only saw violence as a means of change" ? U do know that the word "revolution", when used in political context, assumes a different meaning ?
-DUH, who are u. A Ph.D scholar, a professor.

Why don't u read about the life and works of Gandhi ?
-[Whisper] Please, i beg, i implore. Don't ask me to read books. I use pages to wipe my.....er, u know what.
-[Loud, almost a shout] Of course i do. Wiki and Google are my best friends.

I finally realized why i felt like puking. I was half drowned in some vile thing which had a yellowish tinge and a pungent smell. Got to figure out what that thing is.

OK, for arguments sake, lets assume that Gandhi was a revolutionist, and peaceful revolution is possible, and that it is possible to get our military to do what u want, but don't u think we will be missing an opportunity here ? Democracy at least gives u the opportunity to rectify your mistakes.
- Dictatorship spares you from making mistakes in first place.

That vile thing is now upto my nose. Gotta..........breathe.......fresh air.......dying.......HELP.

karnivore said:
Yesterday i met Mr Moron. Haven't seen him lately, so i was really intrigued. As i walked to him, i realized he was busy doing something amazing. It seemed like he was sniffing his.......er......his behind. Now if u look at the dynamics, sniffing one's own butt is an impossibility for a human being, unless of course, if u r carrying the unevolved gene of your prehistoric ancestor.

Hey buddy what r u upto ?
- I am looking for a solution for India's problem.

In your.........behind ?
- SSSHHHH........not so loud. Don't tell this to anybody. Something went wrong in the evolutionary process and i ended up with my brains in my........er.......butt. Now everytime i try to think i spew crap all over the place.

Oh, evolution has been pretty unfair to u. Anyway, how do u propose we solve this problem ?
- We should organize a revolution. Bloody or otherwise. Its the only solution.

Can u please elaborate ?
- We should ask our military to arrest our corrupt ministers. To hell with Constitution, to hell with Judiciary, to hell with legislature and to hell with electorate.

U think it can be done that way ?
- Of course. Running a country is just like a computer game. U don't like the game ? Simple. Uninstall. U don't like the regime ? Simple. Organise a revolution.

BTW, how should the military make arrests ?
-Who cares. We will ask them to.

Err, did u know that military can't take suo motu actions ? It needs permission of the Parliament ? Also military cannot make civil arrests ? It lies only with the police ? If it still goes ahead and does that, it will be called coup d'tat ?
-Coup what. Hang on a sec. Let me google that. But then again, who cares. They will do what we ask them to do. They are my paternal property.

Did u know that India did come close to a dictatorial rule ? It was Ms Indira Gandhi who declared "Emergency" and brought India to the brink of what u want ? No one in India had a pleasant experience at that time ?
-Who cares. We want military rule, bus, thats it. Your logic stinks.

The world is yet to see a benevolent military regime. Can u name one ?
-Let me Google that.

Suddenly, i felt a terrible urge to puke, don't know why. Probably indigestion. Got to buy 10 Eno packs. One would be of no help.

But don't u think that a revolution is just too much for India to handle right now ?
- Come on we did that before, we can do it again.

We did that before ?
- Of course. Gandhi did that. HE was a "revolutionist"

Where did u get that ?
- Why, from Wiki and Google. These are extremely reliable sites.

Err, they were referring the concept of non-violence, "revolutionary", the mass civil movement, "revolutionary", as in "spectacular", as in "refreshingly different from the war torn world that only saw violence as a means of change" ? U do know that the word "revolution", when used in political context, assumes a different meaning ?
-DUH, who are u. A Ph.D scholar, a professor.

Why don't u read about the life and works of Gandhi ?
-[Whisper] Please, i beg, i implore. Don't ask me to read books. I use pages to wipe my.....er, u know what.
-[Loud, almost a shout] Of course i do. Wiki and Google are my best friends.

I finally realized why i felt like puking. I was half drowned in some vile thing which had a yellowish tinge and a pungent smell. Got to figure out what that thing is.

OK, for arguments sake, lets assume that Gandhi was a revolutionist, and peaceful revolution is possible, and that it is possible to get our military to do what u want, but don't u think we will be missing an opportunity here ? Democracy at least gives u the opportunity to rectify your mistakes.
- Dictatorship spares you from making mistakes in first place.

That vile thing is now upto my nose. Gotta..........breathe.......fresh air.......dying.......HELP.

What a waste! It seems u have nuthing more to say! Please if u can't say sumthing useful now then atleast stop ur troll. I expected u to quote me line by line and reply then. And here u r telling us fairy tales which plagiarized ur mind? How cute! Please go back to my previous post and quote me line by line coz its against forum rulezz to ponce around!

and yea u gotta breathe and consult that army man in ur family for some enlightenment, coz ignorance combined with ego,arrogance can really kill u.. u know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaraj
An ideal government will consist of a benevolent board/panel of experts

yeah, and who's going to decide who the experts are? (go back to square 1: elections)

U said it man.

There are men who think twice before saying. I am currently engaged in a debate with guys who talk twice before thinking.

What a waste!

It indeed is.

It seems u have nuthing more to say!

Frankly, i don't.

Please if u can't say sumthing useful now then atleast stop ur troll

I am not sure if anybody can say something useful to u. So i stop here.

I expected u to quote me line by line and reply then.

Hmmmm........wondering if it is worth it.

karnivore said:
U said it man.

There are men who think twice before saying. I am currently engaged in a debate with guys who talk twice before thinking.

It indeed is.

Frankly, i don't.

I am not sure if anybody can say something useful to u. So i stop here.

Hmmmm........wondering if it is worth it.

Another troll, please stick to the topic and speak to the point! I can see no relevant point in this post of urs!

What a waste! It seems u have nuthing more to say! Please if u can't say sumthing useful now then atleast stop ur troll. I expected u to quote me line by line and reply then. And here u r telling us fairy tales which plagiarized ur mind? How cute! Please go back to my previous post and quote me line by line coz its against forum rulezz to ponce around!
and yea u gotta breathe and consult that army man in ur family for some enlightenment, coz ignorance combined with ego,arrogance can really kill u.. u know!

SHOW ME THE POINT OF THIS POST

How can I when u can't read the debate from the start, can't interpret things and only act like a glutton for ur mockery? I can't spoon feed a baby when he is not willing to cooperate can I? How tragic!

I can't spoon feed a baby when he is not willing to cooperate can I?

What exactly is ur idea of co-operation ? Agreeing to all ur inanities ?

Learn to interpret things and read the debate from start. U'll know the idea of cooperation! "inanities"? Neways ponder on ur insanities and childish behaviour! Can't believe u doubted over those conforming google links. Grow up dude!

Inanities = Stupidities

Can't believe u doubted over those conforming google links.

Never knew if anybody was more authoritative on Gandhi than Raja Gopalacharya.

^^Done making ur troll...troll boy? Grow up!

Neways for like minded people here, here r some more views and nice reads on revolutionising India!
*www.iitd.ernet.in/convo04/awards.html
*agrariancrisis.wordpress.com/2007/01/15/need-for-a-second-green-revolution/
*hsonline.wordpress.com/2006/07/31/we-need-a-revolution-in-the-education-system-in-india/
*www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/07/14/stories/2006071401831100.htm

aliasghark said:
no i'm not. just trying to get you back to your senses (if any )

You're not eligible. Sorry!

And if you cared to look at the votes, about 70% of Digit'ers are in favor of a revolution. These are educated people with passion for technology, not a gang of villege idiots. You're out of business!

aliasghark said:
now this is the height of insanity. you are now accusing the government of doing exactly the same thing you kept advocating! (wasn't the government supposed to be doing 'nothing'?)

You blew all arguments out of their context. I blame the government for not doing enough, and letting farmers die of hunger. Either they should bring reforms or kill them like the Chinese do.

I hope your 1cc brain is able to grasp that little thing.

aliasghark said:
huh? i thought you meant what you said in your previous post

You can't take sarcasm! If people like you are cognizant, what are they doing to make things better? Casting votes again?

aliasghark said:
no its not

Yes, it is.

aliasghark said:
i'm sorry, i refuse to join your band of pretenders

Mine is not a band of pretenders. But you and your likes are so brainwashed and institutionalized, you've ceased to think.

aliasghark said:
how about it?

Just as you don't run your family as a business, running your country as one is equally ridiculous.

aliasghark said:
nope, that would be you.

Quit whining. If you disagree, just go away.

aliasghark said:
are you offended if you're called yamraj?

You can read English, I hope?

aliasghark said:
your knowledge of history on the other hand, doesn't even go back two complete days. as illustrated in the quotes above, you kept changing sides more often than bush mocks the law

You don't know me. You don't know my qualifications. Don't pretend to.

aliasghark said:
yeah, and who's going to decide who the experts are? (go back to square 1: elections)

Elections don't decide IIT/IIM students. Elections don't appoint professors in your university. Like I said before, you people are brainwashed to the bottom. Election is all you can think about?

aliasghark said:
yamaraj, you poor little chap, i pity you. why don't you do everyone (including yourself) a favor and return to tora bora? you won't need to worry about the idiot box there. there wouldn't be any, at your native place. not in your hut, nor your neighbors'. and of course it won't be easy to access the net, but you'll have to learn to deal with it. its for your own good.

Be polite. Personal attacks are not my cup of tea, but I won't hesistate when it starts flowing over my head.

Just go away. This thread doesn't need you.

karnivore said:
Yesterday i met Mr Moron. Haven't seen him lately, so i was really intrigued. As i walked to him, i realized he was busy doing something amazing. It seemed like he was sniffing his.......er......his behind. Now if u look at the dynamics, sniffing one's own butt is an impossibility for a human being, unless of course, if u r carrying the unevolved gene of your prehistoric ancestor.

snipped...

You've revealed your true colors. Come out of the closet, you butt-obsessed repressed homosexual pervert!

I will not reply to any of your posts from now on, and I request others to do the same. It's no more than a waste of valuable time and resources to carry on reasoning with villege idiots. They won't understand anything anyway and keep arguing and griding their axe of personal attacks until they run out of fuel.

Go away.

------------

India's Pseudo-Democracy
Source: - *www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=5806

India's Pseudo-Democracy
The country may not match up to its Asian neighbors in prosperity, but Indians have always been able to boast of the vitality of their parliamentary system. Nowadays, such boasts are heard far less frequently

By Satyabrata Rai Chowdhuri

Recently, India's Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee said that despite the outward appearance of health, Indian democracy appears to have become hollow, with elections reduced to a farce and the "party system eroded due to unethical practices." According to Vajpayee, "The outer shell of democracy is, no doubt, intact, but appears to be moth-eaten from inside."

Indeed, in the preface to a recent collection of his speeches, Vajpayee wondered whether democracy had truly taken root in India. "How can democratic institutions work properly," he asked, "when politics is becoming increasingly criminalized?"

This is a strange turn, for parliamentary democracy has long been a source of pride for most Indians. The country may not match up to its Asian neighbors in prosperity, but Indians have always been able to boast of the vitality of their parliamentary system. Nowadays, such boasts are heard far less frequently.

Not only are India's economic failures more obvious, in comparison to Asia's revived economic juggernauts; so, too, are the failures of its political system. Unprincipled politics, cults of violence, communal rage, and macabre killings of religious minorities have all combined to shake people's faith in the political system's viability. Small wonder, then, that people are starting to ask whether India needs an alternative system of government.

Part of the problem lies in India's deracinated party politics. For decades, the Congress Party of Nehru and his daughter, Indira Gandhi, basically ruled the country unchallenged. But with the assassinations of Indira Gandhi and her son, former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, Congress disintegrated and has not recovered. Rather than ushering in an era of recognizable multi-party politics, Indian democracy still lacks a party system worthy of the name.

One reason for this is that there are barely any national parties. Instead, India is saddled with highly volatile leader-based groups. When the leadership is charismatic and strong, the party is a servile instrument. Lacking coherent principles or an overriding ideology, these groups fragment when their leadership changes or splits, as Congress did.

Where parties are weak, there can be no party discipline. India's parliament is riddled with defections by MPs, who move freely from one party grouping to another. So endemic is the buying and selling of legislators that parliament looks a lot like a cattle market. The prizes conferred on opportunistic defectors not only undermine the party system, but weaken the foundations of parliament by making organized opposition impossible.

Public apathy bordering on fatalism is the inevitable result. This is dangerous because apathy does not take the form of withdrawal from public life, but increasingly finds expression in sectarian and religious conflict. Of course, politicians incite many of these conflicts, using caste, sect, and religion--not political ideas--to build voter loyalty. But apathy about democracy is what makes so many ordinary Indians prey to poisonous appeals.

This susceptibility is the clearest sign that India's experiment with the Westminster model of parliamentary democracy has failed to justify the hopes that prevailed fifty years ago when the Constitution was proclaimed. Back then, parliament was seen as a means to bridge the divides of caste, religion, and region. Parliament's increasing irrelevance in sorting out these problems--indeed, its role in exacerbating them--is fueling a growing preference among Indians for a presidential system of government that removes executive functions from the oversight of an institution that has been addled and rendered impotent by undisciplined factions.

Of course, politicians are not the only people at fault here. Sadly, Indian society never really embraced the consensual values that India's Constitution proclaims: a participatory, decentralized democracy; an egalitarian society with minimal social and economic disparities; a secularized polity; the supremacy of the rule of law; a federal structure ensuring partial autonomy to provinces; cultural and religious pluralism; harmony between rural and urban areas; and an efficient, honest state administration at both the national and local level.

Instead, race and caste remain as potent as ever. Wealth is as grossly distributed as ever. Corruption rules many state governments and national ministries. Urban and rural areas subvert each other.

But parliaments demand a minimal national consensus if they are to function, for they are creatures of compromise in decision-making. Executive governments, on the other hand, are creatures of decision: a popularly elected president is ultimately responsible to his voters, not to his party colleagues.

The very election by national suffrage of an executive provides the type of minimal consensus that India's faction-riven parliaments have, sadly, never been able to cultivate. Of course, a president will undoubtedly need to compromise with his legislature, but the general consent that is gained by popular election implies at least some broader agreement behind the platform that he or she campaigned on.

Of course, no magic bullet will do away with the forces that divide India. But at least some of the maladies of the current parliamentary system, such as defection, party factionalism, inherent political instability, and crippling coalition politics can be minimized, if not eliminated, by adopting an executive-dominant model of presidential democracy. In adopting such a system, Indians would have nothing to lose but the corruption and chaos of today's discredited parliament.

Satyabrata Rai Chowdhuri, Emeritus Professor at India's University Grants Commission, is a former Professor of International Relations at Oxford University, and Research Coordinator at the Stockholm International Peace Institute.

I will not reply to any of your posts from now on, and I request others to do the same. It's no more than a waste of valuable time and resources to carry on reasoning with villege idiots. They won't understand anything anyway and keep arguing and griding their axe of personal attacks until they run out of fuel.

= BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAHand some more BLAH BLAH

India: A Democracy?

Source: - *www.viewsunplugged.com/VU/20031211/reflection_democracy_pf.shtml

India: A Democracy?
An insight into the glaring faults of the flawed democratic system in India.
..................

Aaditeshwar Seth

I attended my convocation ceremony at IIT-Kanpur a few weeks back, and I was lucky enough to get a chance of spending almost an hour talking in person with our Chief Guest - Dr. Arun Shourie. Dr. Shourie is the present Disinvestment Minister of India, and he has been credited with revolutionizing free and fair journalism in India when he was earlier the editor of the Indian Express.

We talked about the Kashmir issue and the pathetic lack of decision-making capability by the government. We talked about the atrociously slow judicial process. We talked about the growth of low-researched and negativistic journalism in the media. We talked about the dishonorable corruption record of India. Interestingly, each and every single issue seemed to boil down to faults in the political structure of India. Allow me to enumerate some of the glaring faults of the flawed democratic system of India.

Firstly: Elections in a country having only 60% literacy and very high poverty levels are not fair and democratic at all, because most people vote for a candidate who either threatens them physically, or gives them some monetary incentives. Almost nobody does (or is capable of doing) an unbiased knowledge-based assessment of the candidates.

Secondly: There are such a large number of small political parties that no single party is able to achieve a total majority these days and a coalition government is finally formed, with each constituent party having a different ideology and different preferences. This is completely against the basic theme of democracy, which states that the populace actually votes for or against a particular governing ideology based on industry or religion or other attitudes. Instead, in India the result of the elections is a mixed, ad-hoc, and confused structure that is not able to do justice to even one party that had been voted for.

The coalition members are rather perpetually engaged in mutual conflicts arising from differing personal ambitions, instead of uniting together and handling the functioning of such a large country. Such unstable coalitions often break and no-confidence motions are enforced and more elections are held. First of all, the case for a no-confidence motion should never arise in an ideal democracy. Add to this the tremendous costs involved in funding the infrastructure required for organizing a fair election in the world's largest democracy.

Thirdly: The Opposition opposes each and every proposal made by the Government, either because the Opposition might have made mistakes when it was earlier in power and does not want anybody to rectify them now, or because it wants to reserve the better proposals for itself and implement them when it hopefully comes into power later. Even the Government delays reforms and times them according to the dates of the various upcoming elections to reap maximum benefit. Both groups are logically justified in thinking practically, but as a result, the development of the country slows down tremendously.

Fourthly: In all other democracies, it is customary for the politicians to specialize in a particular field and take up portfolios that they are most capable of handling. This practice is clearly absent in India because cabinet reshuffles are very common, and meritocracy is singularly absent. An even worse situation arises when people who have unresolved criminal records because of the sad state of the Indian judiciary, and people who have not even completed their basic education, are elected into the Parliament.

An engineer in India has to spend his first twenty-two years studying before he can claim that he is capable of solving some practical engineering problems. A doctor has to spend his first twenty-five years studying before he can claim that he is capable of saving a patient's life. How can an illiterate person, and a criminal, claim that he is capable of running a country?

Fifthly: The system of reservation for backward tribes was most apparently evolved as a way of keeping minority groups happy and gathering their votes. Else, by all logic, reservation should have been imposed on the basis of income groups, instead of being done on a caste basis. This has only led to a very lowly form of exploitation of the system by the politicians. The result is that incapable people get to run the bureaucracy, and the ones who should be benefiting from the reservation policies are still helpless, blindly voting for the politicians who are good at giving speeches on discrimination and human rights violation. Furthermore, the system of reservation has contributed more towards the segregation of segments of society, than towards the united and cooperative betterment of the needy.

Sixthly: As a sad culmination of all the above reasons, corruption has traveled down from the highest political office of the country to right down to the peons who work in the government offices. This culture of corruption is deeply intertwined with the way power is won, exercised, and retained in the Indian political system.

I finally told Dr. Shourie that it was apparent that the fault lay in the Indian way of democracy and the way it had evolved over the years. He just spoke a single sentence - "The caste system of India has ruined us."

The reason became immediately clear to me because most of the problems of the democratic system could be attributed to the highly fragmented and disunited multi-party scenario, and this was a result of the caste system in India. On gaining independence, we started with an ideal democratic India with just a few parties, but soon these parties discovered an easy way to guarantee themselves votes by taking advantage of the communal groups in India. Coupled with the personal desire for power, the original bi-party or tri-party democratic India (similar to the bi-party British system) broke into smaller and smaller political parties, and ruined the very spirit of democracy. The result has been all the points that I enumerated above, and many more. I would term India as only an "artificial-democracy" at the very best, because achieving democracy seems to be possible at two levels. One would be a democracy in spirit where social justice, human rights, participation from all groups, and the redistribution of wealth is ensured. The second would be a democracy in name where regular elections are held, the constitution is followed, and justice is guaranteed. India appears to have been targeting the easier second alternative, but unfortunately, we have not been successful in achieving that either.

If you think deeply, you will easily agree with the fact that any kind of a democracy forces everybody to be selfish and work not towards the welfare of the nation, but towards their own personal gains and personal power - the national welfare is expected to follow as a parallel and secondary effect.

Look at it this way: In an ideal competitive democracy, all politicians will try to ensure more votes for them, which will in turn be possible only if they work in the interests of the nation and its people. However, the problematic clause is that the politicians can ensure votes for themselves not necessarily "only" through working towards the welfare of the nation, but also through a dozen other work-around methods. The Indian politicians have perfected these other alternative methods, taking advantage of the poverty and the low literacy levels in the country. A side effect of the Indian democratic system has definitely been positive development, but so has been the growth of extensive corruption. This corruption has evolved because of the very nature of the system and the way elections are won and the country is ruled.

I asked Dr. Shourie if he could give examples of some other countries that followed a political system similar to the Indian democracy and were yet doing well, but he could not name even one such country. I next asked him what he thought could be a solution to this seemingly impossible problem. He sadly shook his head and said -

"I'm sorry young man. India evolved in a very inappropriate way. Many mistakes were made and they should have been corrected much before, but nobody tried or even wanted to rectify them.

"There is a saying in psychology - A Breakdown is a Breakthrough - which means, that once a person breaks down, then this is actually considered to be a breakthrough because the person needs to start afresh. India will continue going down the ruins for some more time, and should wait for a breakdown of the present structure. Only after that can a more mature political structure be put into place."

----------

The KGB and Indian Democracy

Source: - *www.deeshaa.org/2005/09/18/the-kgb-and-indian-democracy/

It’s not surprising but it is still news to me that the KGB attempted to steer the Indian ship of state. I grew up hearing rumors of the CIA doing all sorts of nasty things around the world, of course. The KGB, as the other spy in the real life adaptation of the Mad Spy Versus Spy, was as active I conjectured. Clearly India had enough commies crawling around for the KGB to find willing agents. So when I read (via The Acorn) the TIMESonline of the UK report that KGB records show how spies penetrated the heart of India, I was a sadder but wiser man:

A HUGE cache of KGB records smuggled out of Moscow after the fall of communism reveal that in the 1970s India was one of the countries most successfully penetrated by Soviet intelligence.
A number of senior KGB officers have testified that, under Indira Gandhi, India was one of their priority targets.

“We had scores of sources through the Indian Government — in intelligence, counter-intelligence, the defence and foreign ministries and the police,” said Oleg Kalugin, once the youngest general in Soviet foreign intelligence and responsible for monitoring KGB penetration abroad. India became “a model of KGB infiltration of a Third World government”, he added.

…

Despite her own frugal lifestyle, suitcases full of banknotes were said to be routinely taken to the Prime Minister’s house to finance her wing of the Congress Party. One of her opponents claimed that Mrs Gandhi did not even return the suitcases.

…

The Russians were also extremely active in trying to influence Indian opinion. According to KGB files, by 1973 it had on its payroll ten Indian newspapers as well as a press agency. The previous year the KGB claimed to have planted 3,789 articles in Indian newspapers — probably more than in any other country in the non-communist world. By 1975 the number of articles it claimed to have inspired had risen to 5,510. India was also one of the most favourable environments for Soviet front organisations.

OK, so far so good. An instructive story indeed. But what lesson does one draw from it? That the Soviets tried but failed to influence India materially? Maybe. But I don’t understand the position of one reader of The Acorn when he wrote:

What an amazing story. One of the (then) world’s superpowers pumps in millions, and yet, our democratic institutions have been strong enough to withstand them.

The article says that between 3 and 5 thousand stories had been planted in the Indian press and that the prime minister had been bribed. The press and the prime minister’s office, I guess, are important democratic institutions. They were compromised. It hardly speaks to the strength of our democratic institutions.

Now the rejoinder may be this: “Yes, but don’t you see the Indian voter, so wonderfully perceptive, immediately saw through those thousands of planted stories and recognized the corruption of the Congress decided to vote them out of office? Amazing rectitude and foresight and perspicacity of the Indian voter, isn’t it?”

Indeed it would be, if only this were true. The average Indian voter did not read newspapers and therefore whether they contained planted fake articles or they contained the wisdom of the ancients is not material. The average Indian voter could not even know about the corruption at high levels, especially when it come to the party of Gandhi (happily ascribing the old man’s virtues to Nehru’s children). This was so because the average Indian voter was an illiterate rural voter who was as likely to read the doctored papers as I am likely to read the Pravda—hardly likely since I am illiterate in Russian.

What scared the holy crap out of the average Indian voter was the rumor that the government of Indira Gandhi was out to castrate him. It all started with the idiot Sanjay Gandhi forcibly administering vasectomies on some hapless poor people in a misguided but well-intentioned effort to stop the population explosion. To the above mentioned average Indian voter, castration and vasectomies are synonymous. It was their fear of losing their gonads and being turned into eunuchs that did the trick, not some imagined resilience of India’s “democratic institution.”

It is not hard to determine the source of the confusion about India’s much trumpeted democracy. It arises from the mistaken belief that democracy is about going to a voting station periodically to cast a vote for a party of one’s choice. True, democracy is about choosing who you want to give the power to govern you. But is it not just choice, it is about informed choice. How one can be informed about parties and people who are so far removed from one – geographically, socially, economically, psychically – and with the additional handicap of being illiterate, is a mystery to me. To me, democracy means a lot more than an uninformed horde putting its thumb impression on a symbol (most people cannot read) and the choice is sometimes dictated by a harmless petty bribe, and sometimes by the more pernicious promises of the politicians such as free power or job reservations.

Democracy is not about the periodic general elections in which the choice is increasingly limited to a gallery of the most corrupt thugs in the constituency. It is about democratic institutions such as a free and informed system of electing of public-spirited political leaders, a free market, an efficient legal system which recognizes property rights and enforces contracts without delay, a police force that prevents crime instead of doing crime, a rule of law that recognizes all its citizens as equals and is blind to religion and creed, etc, none of which are developed in India.

There is no reason on earth why we don’t have a good democracy in place. Or maybe there is a good reason. India’s feudal past could explain it to some extent. With a long history of being serfs and slaves, bending in servitude comes naturally. True, voting allows a person to choose, but serfs and slaves can vote the feudal lord into power pretty effectively.

We need democracy in India now. Since democracy is of the people and by the people, the people have to be at the very least informed and not ignorant. We the people have to become literate and educated before we can truthfully boast of being the largest democracy in the world. Until we become literate and educated, I would not speak too loudly of how great a democracy we are.

Ascribing the failures of the KGB to a mysterious maturity of the Indian democracy makes one feel good but lulls us into complacency that we have arrived and there is no need for any futher effort.

And some self-proclaimed intellectuals are still proud of this worthless pseudo-democracy of ours. Pity on them!

-----------

Pushing India Toward A Dollar Democracy

Source: - *www.countercurrents.org/gl-shrivastava311006.htm

Pushing India Toward A
Dollar Democracy

By Aseem Shrivastava

31 October, 2006
Countercurrents.org

In an article concerned with the rapid urbanization of India and China, a writer for London's Financial Times (August 5/6, 2006) points out that Bangalore "has become a byword for a catastrophic failure of urban planning."

Interestingly, he attributes this lapse to "Indian sentimentalism about the supposed benefits of village life, and the consequent incompetence in managing cities" which "contrasts starkly with the ruthless pragmatism of the central and local authorities in China."

Let us not bring up that bugbear of the absence of democracy in China just yet, no matter that the Anglo-Americans are all so keen to bomb us all to "freedom" these days, China being that fearsome and much envied exception.

More worrying are the writer quotes from supposed Indian experts. One of them is K.E. Seetharam, a water and sanitation expert from the Asia Development Bank in Manila, according to whom "civilizations have always been urbanised" and "this concept of rural development is something more recent and in my view doesn't exist."

Is this man truly Indian? Has he forgotten those school history lessons about the Indo-Gangetic plain and the role it has played throughout time in sustaining the economies and cultures of empires from the Mauryan to the Mughal? Or, seeing as he comes from South India, he might visit a library and read about the role of the farmers of the Kaveri and Krishna basins whose taxes helped maintain the splendour of the Vijayanagar courts.

However, to be fair to Mr. Seetharam, his view has widespread currency today. And this is why it is so dangerous. The reasons for the prevalence of the view are not far to seek. The industrial revolution treated from the beginning the countryside as a hinterland for mineral resources or as a sink for its effluents. It made it easy to forget the fact that industrial workers (often dispossessed peasants) and their bosses were fed on food that the farmers grew in the villages. Also, since cities grew around industries, it gave birth to the illusion that civilisations have always been urban.

Even when civilisations have been formally urban, as in the cities of the ancient world, like Athens or Sparta, they have often had, believe it or not, little to do with commerce or industry (those being of least importance to Greek citizens and thinkers), unlike our cities today, offshoots as they are of industrial growth.

We would be well-advised to suspend our intoxicating amnesia, bred of industrial affluence, (and effluence) and recall at least a bit of what the countryside has contributed to human civilisation. From legends and myths to melodies and dances, human culture anywhere is unimaginable without the backdrop of rural inspiration.

This is not the place for it, but here is a sampler, unjust as it necessarily is. Great landscape art * from delicate Chinese woodcuts to Van Gogh's majestic canvases * have been inspired by nature, available only in the countryside. Beethoven's pastoral is hard to imagine being inspired by urban industrial noise. Nor can the poems of the Romantics, whether in India or in Europe.

Thomas Jefferson's dream of a free American republic was peopled with farmers. Gandhi championed the idea of village republics for a reason. Rabindranath Tagore set up Shantiniketan in the countryside when he could as easily have done so in Kolkata. So many of our great bards, from Lalleshwari to Tukaram, sang to the lord in the jungles and the meadows.

Our tragedy today is that William Blake's warnings about the "dark, Satanic mills" of London went unheeded by Western culture. Independent India, which has never decolonized culturally, followed suit.

The concept of rural development does not exist? Would the Prime Minister be willing to repeat that in front of a meeting of villagers anywhere in India before the next elections, apprising them of the latest wisdom of our policy experts?

Even more chilling, the Financial Times article goes on to argue that the mismanagement of Indian cities is to be blamed upon the fact that Indian politicians are "obsessed with the problem of rural poverty" and thus drag resources away from urban development! "One reason for this illogical approach is politics: India is a democracy. For historical reasonsthe countryside is over-represented in the political system and power rests with the state government, not with the cities."

So the lament is that, alas, for "historical reasons", India is a democracy and the villagers carry too many votes. Talk about doublespeak in the mainstream of the Western media!

The FT writer seeks further explanation for the state of Indian cities from someone much more influential than Mr. Seetharam. Nandan Nilekani is the CEO of Infosys, one of India's software flagships. He represents Indian business interests at the World Economic Forum meetings in Davos every year. He is approached by all the Western media outlets whenever representative views from Indian corporate circles are wanted.

Listen to what he says: There is "a disconnect", he points out, "between the economic power and the political power." Bangalore with only 10% of the population of Karnataka state contributes 60% of the state's GDP. However, it has only 7% of the state assembly seats.

So what is to be done? Here might be a foretaste of things to come: "In China you don't have that problemIndia is the only example of urbanisation (on this scale) happening with universal adult franchise."

So the moral of the story is that urbanisation shouldn't happen with universal adult franchise. When the West urbanized it did not have universal suffrage. China continues to urbanize only because there is no democracy. Nilekani's diagnosis of the problem is accurate. The problem lies with its one-eyed superficiality, drawn as it is from the premises of industrial growth, predatory on the countryside.

Shall we take the Chinese route to industrial greatness and do away with the nuisance of democracy which, in any case, has nothing to do with capitalist success and does plenty to put brakes on it? That, at this stage of history, might prove to be politically explosive in India (no thanks to the West that we are democratic). What the increasingly political corporate elite will want to experiment with is a set of constitutional amendments that fiscally empower cities at the cost of the countryside, correcting in favour of urban India the disconnect that Nilekani mentions. This cannot happen without deep-rooted changes in the very structure of Indian government and politics. Jurists would be able to tell us more though there are surely many corporate fantasists dreaming of globally networked, autonomous post-modern city-states!

Let us be clear. Nilekani is arguing, in effect, for a "dollar democracy", where one rupee will count for one vote, rather than one person. Does anyone see how gigantic a retrograde step this would be in human affairs? It means setting aside all the mammoth political and cultural efforts ranging across the centuries and the continents that have gone into enfranchising the historically powerless. In the long historical argument between town and country, the metro now wishes to intervene with decisive finality. It is a dangerous trend, whether it is observed in India, China or elsewhere.

In the US they have achieved a dollar democracy without major constitutional amendments. However, it is easier to brainwash and fool a well-fed electorate which can take out loans to buy vacation homes and BMWs. Achieving the same political feat in India is not going to be easy at all. That, in fact, is the reason why during the past 17 years, in the six general elections the country has had, the incumbent party has not been returned to office even once, a fact unmatched by any world democracy.

What people like the writer of the FT article, Seethram, Nilekani and so many others, for whom they are the spokespersons, would ideally like to see is India grow as "smoothly" as China (or 19th century Dickensian Britain), with the nuisance of things like "democracy" and "rural development" out of the way. Indian cities, their slums duly demolished and put out of sight of visiting investors in air-conditioned cars, will then wear the gloss of Singapore or even London, starved rural underbellies not in view.

But alas, you cannot hide 300 or 400 million starving mouths, and the insistently unjust social reality of India will break through into one or another rear-view mirror, disturbing the fantasies of financiers' wives and girlfriends.

Time to recall William Blake once more: "When nations grow old, art grows cold and commerce sits on every tree."

karnivore said:
Yesterday i met Mr Moron. Haven't seen him lately, so i was really intrigued. As i walked to him, i realized he was busy doing something amazing. It seemed like he was sniffing his.......er......his behind. Now if u look at the dynamics, sniffing one's own butt is an impossibility for a human being, unless of course, if u r carrying the unevolved gene of your prehistoric ancestor.

Hey buddy what r u upto ?
- I am looking for a solution for India's problem.

In your.........behind ?
- SSSHHHH........not so loud. Don't tell this to anybody. Something went wrong in the evolutionary process and i ended up with my brains in my........er.......butt. Now everytime i try to think i spew crap all over the place.

Oh, evolution has been pretty unfair to u. Anyway, how do u propose we solve this problem ?
- We should organize a revolution. Bloody or otherwise. Its the only solution.

Can u please elaborate ?
- We should ask our military to arrest our corrupt ministers. To hell with Constitution, to hell with Judiciary, to hell with legislature and to hell with electorate.

U think it can be done that way ?
- Of course. Running a country is just like a computer game. U don't like the game ? Simple. Uninstall. U don't like the regime ? Simple. Organise a revolution.

BTW, how should the military make arrests ?
-Who cares. We will ask them to.

Err, did u know that military can't take suo motu actions ? It needs permission of the Parliament ? Also military cannot make civil arrests ? It lies only with the police ? If it still goes ahead and does that, it will be called coup d'tat ?
-Coup what. Hang on a sec. Let me google that. But then again, who cares. They will do what we ask them to do. They are my paternal property.

Did u know that India did come close to a dictatorial rule ? It was Ms Indira Gandhi who declared "Emergency" and brought India to the brink of what u want ? No one in India had a pleasant experience at that time ?
-Who cares. We want military rule, bus, thats it. Your logic stinks.

The world is yet to see a benevolent military regime. Can u name one ?
-Let me Google that.

Suddenly, i felt a terrible urge to puke, don't know why. Probably indigestion. Got to buy 10 Eno packs. One would be of no help.

But don't u think that a revolution is just too much for India to handle right now ?
- Come on we did that before, we can do it again.

We did that before ?
- Of course. Gandhi did that. HE was a "revolutionist"

Where did u get that ?
- Why, from Wiki and Google. These are extremely reliable sites.

Err, they were referring the concept of non-violence, "revolutionary", the mass civil movement, "revolutionary", as in "spectacular", as in "refreshingly different from the war torn world that only saw violence as a means of change" ? U do know that the word "revolution", when used in political context, assumes a different meaning ?
-DUH, who are u. A Ph.D scholar, a professor.

Why don't u read about the life and works of Gandhi ?
-[Whisper] Please, i beg, i implore. Don't ask me to read books. I use pages to wipe my.....er, u know what.
-[Loud, almost a shout] Of course i do. Wiki and Google are my best friends.

I finally realized why i felt like puking. I was half drowned in some vile thing which had a yellowish tinge and a pungent smell. Got to figure out what that thing is.

OK, for arguments sake, lets assume that Gandhi was a revolutionist, and peaceful revolution is possible, and that it is possible to get our military to do what u want, but don't u think we will be missing an opportunity here ? Democracy at least gives u the opportunity to rectify your mistakes.
- Dictatorship spares you from making mistakes in first place.

That vile thing is now upto my nose. Gotta..........breathe.......fresh air.......dying.......HELP.

Is India A Democracy?

Source: - *www.kulsh.com/Is-India-a-Democracy.htm

Is India A Democracy?

By Ajay Kulshreshtha | Ajay@Kulsh.com | California, USA

Some time ago, on a Sunday news program, late Theodore H. White, a well-established American political observer (author of “The Making of the President” series of books) declared that India has been a Soviet-supported dictatorship for many decades. Next to him were sitting the top brass of ABC News including Sam Donaldson and then-national-anchorman Frank Reynolds, but none of them bothered to correct him… If the most politically-informed segment of American society – the journalists – do not associate India and democracy, imagine what an average American thinks, if he or she think about such matters at all.

We, in India, feel an affinity for American political system, thinking of it as the most powerful democracy in the world, while ours is the largest one. But on coming to US we realize that there is no such reciprocal affection for Indian political system in America. None at all… In the American mind, democracy conjures up an image of prosperity and opportunity. How can a wretchedly poor and backward country like India be democratic?

But India is democratic by the criteria that are extolled non-stop by American politicians and media – freedom of speech, freedom of press, government formed by representatives of people elected by popular vote, etc…. So what is missing? Why we do not see the benefits that supposedly flow from the political system that is so highly touted here? Why does India not find itself any closer to the democratic objectives of equal opportunity and betterment of masses, despite following the Western political prescription so wholeheartedly and for so long?

Is the problem with the patient or with the prescription? Netaji Subash Chandra Bose, more that a half century ago, in stating that India is not ready for popularly elected government, seemed to say that problem is with the patient but on seeing political process in action in Western countries, the recommended political model seems equally suspect. After all, how good a political process be under which so often gullible-many elect incompetent-few? And these incompetent or semi-competent few are invariably corrupt to varying degrees. This is reflected in the fact that these representatives of the people are often called “the lesser of evils” or “the best money can buy”.

But are not all advanced nations of the world run by such people and these nations are thriving? Why can’t India?

A closer look would reveal that the role of politicians in the achievements of developed countries is rather limited. The continuing success of America, for example, may have little to do with likes of Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, and everything to do with likes of John F. Welch and Bill Gates. More often than not, the elected officials play a passive role in the growth of these societies.

But, again, why can’t this happen in India?

Comparing an advanced nation and India is like comparing two trains – one that is on tracks and the other deep in the mud with tracks nowhere near. People with below-average ability can keep the first train going but it will take gargantuan talent and effort to put the second train in motion. The people who come to the top through mass elections in India are utterly unfit to provide the requisite leadership.

But have not other underdeveloped countries succeeded with popularly elected leaders at the helm?

In fact, such an example is hard to find… Let us look at the nations that have been successful in improving the lot of their people in recent human history. In the 19th century, both Japan and Germany were able to transform themselves, former due to the initiatives taken by members of Samurai clan, and later with the help of leaders like Bismarck. In the 20th century, many nations in east Asia, namely, Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore have dramatically improved the fortunes of their citizens – and not a single of them employed universal suffrage to choose their leader, certainly not in the critical early decades.

Currently we see China – with no political participation by general populace – progressing by leaps and bounds, as evidenced by their massive trade surplus with USA. On the other hand, there is Russia, where freedom to vote has come accompanied with economic collapse and social disarray. How many Russians are feeling blessed?

●

Thus the much-ballyhooed political model, based on popularity contests, has never worked for any undeveloped country and holds no hope for advancement of India. But can we even call India a democracy? Can giving public freedom to cast ballot be the sole criteria of democracy? An end in itself? Or, do democratic ideals aim for broader goals?

It would seem that democratic principles call for a place where law and order is respected…where dishonest and criminal tendencies of people are curtailed…where everyone - with talent and diligence in chosen field - has opportunity to advance and prosper.

Can a society where kidnappers – both foreign and domestic – have more sway on the elected governments than its law-abiding citizens, call itself democratic? …Should a country where corruption is so rampant that an honest person feels suffocated, be called democrat? …Can a nation whose people often excel overseas, but which itself ranks near the bottom in the world in competency, actually be following democratic principles? …After five decades of free elections, about half of world's hungry people live in India. Is not democracy supposed to eradicate such problems? Has not Nobel Prize been awarded for such ideas?

India, in its current state, is not a democracy in any meaningful sense. (Nor, of course, it ever was a Soviet-supported dictatorship.) True democracy – a fair, equitable social environment – can come to India only after major political restructuring. Overseas Indians, especially those living in US, have primary responsibility - because of our clout - to ponder what these political changes should be and how to spur them.

Yamaraj said:
Elections don't appoint professors in your university.

there there yamaraj, remember not to talk twice before thinking. the prospective professors, you'd realize if you'd spend some time thinking, go through a selection process which involves people evaluating them. ah, back to square one again? who gets to appoint the professors? aww, you're stuck again! (similarly, if you've failed to see, the students are interviewed and selected by people. who gets to appoint those people?

)

refusing elections won't take you anywhere, boy!

----------------------------------------------

this,

Yamaraj said:
Be polite. Personal attacks are not my cup of tea

and then this:

Yamaraj said:
Come out of the closet, you butt-obsessed repressed homosexual pervert!

aliasghark said:
there there yamaraj, remember not to talk twice before thinking. the prospective professors, you'd realize if you'd spend some time thinking, go through a selection process which involves people evaluating them. ah, back to square one again? who gets to appoint the professors? aww, you're stuck again! (similarly, if you've failed to see, the students are interviewed and selected by people. who gets to appoint those people? )

refusing elections won't take you anywhere, boy!

I refuse to correct someone who cannot even tell professionals from illeterates and uneducated. As per your laughable logic, the quality of IIT/IIM would've only increased if the professional selectors were replaced by common voters.

If you still want to post in this thread, and desire to be taken seriously - be polite, and try not to have arguments only for the sake of having them.

aliasghark said:
this, and then this:

You comment doesn't make sense after this:

aliasghark said:

Grow up, hypocrite!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaraj
Elections don't appoint professors in your university.

there there yamaraj, remember not to talk twice before thinking. the prospective professors, you'd realize if you'd spend some time thinking, go through a selection process which involves people evaluating them. ah, back to square one again? who gets to appoint the professors? aww, you're stuck again! (similarly, if you've failed to see, the students are interviewed and selected by people. who gets to appoint those people? )

refusing elections won't take you anywhere, boy!

----------------------------------------------

this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaraj
Be polite. Personal attacks are not my cup of tea

and then this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaraj
Come out of the closet, you butt-obsessed repressed homosexual pervert!

Can u believe these guys. When the whole world is thinking of how to make democaracy more perfect, these guys want to take a million steps back to the stone age.

BTW yamraj ( oops i did it again ) is yet post a paper which says " oh u have problem in your democracy, have a dictator or let ur military take over ".

You comment doesn't make sense after this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliasghark

Grow up, hypocrite!

So now u will dictate what to enjoy.

No wonder, u want dictatorship

Yamaraj said:
As per your laughable logic, the quality of IIT/IIM would've only increased if the professional selectors were replaced by common voters.

nope, thats your twisted logic. what i meant was that the 'selectors' won't fall from the sky. they need to be appointed too. who's going to do that?

Yamaraj said:
Be humble!

lol...u r not at all humble anywhere in this forum.

Yamaraj said:
An ideal government will consist of a benevolent board/panel of experts, philosophers, scientists like APJ, and benevolent buisnessmen like Narayan Murthy, military generals, educationists, economists, farmers, entrepreneurs, students and representatives of all social classes. There won't be a place for dirty politics and evil politicians. No corruption will be tolerated and traitors will face martial law. Everyone will have equal and high-quality education, and there will be no reservation. There will be one law for all, regardless of religion, caste, gender or anything else. Government will not recognize any religion or caste officially. Entire bureaucracy will be refabricated to suite Indian environment.

Your system only looks good in paper,Everyone can simply say abt their own ideal govt which is easy job. And all tat u said already exsist in our current system, like corruption will not be tolerated,everyone is treated as equal, r all in there.What so magical abt ur system which will prevent corruption.Ok we can trust some of the top panel members,how can we trust others.Corruption also exsist in well educated employees also isn't ?.And we r not going to control one single district we need to think all of india.I think this system can only bring chaos tan order since everyone will have different policy.And we will lose all the advantage we hav now by this revolution.And there is no gurantee tat dis will work.Improvements to our current democracy is wt needed,revolution will be a stupid move,And CIA n ISI will be more tan happy as they get the same thing which they r trying to do,so tat india will get partioned or can upset our current system and will be no more a threat to their economy.
Wt i heard is ISI officials are happy when they saw this thread....lol

Yamaraj said:
And if you cared to look at the votes, about 70% of Digit'ers are in favor of a revolution. These are educated people with passion for technology, not a gang of villege idiots. You're out of business!

This is becoz they are brainwashed by negative news ,they think everything in india r wrong n they always make interest in hearing corruption,crimnals.Read positive things tat india is achieving, read both and then think.

We need one. But everyday we die a little and as a result we are getting used to the disgust. Wat is needed is a TRIGGER for only some imp event of profound proportions can create a revolution. Revolutions are not planned; they happen.

@ketanbodas: revolutions can be slow and planned too (for example the iranian revolution wasn't unexpected)

does all part of country stands for a revolution?if any!
also indian military can have the potential to do what pervez @ pak did..

cyberboy_kerala said:
lol...u r not at all humble anywhere in this forum.

I try to be - always. But there are times when even the coolest minds lose their temper.

cyberboy_kerala said:
Your system only looks good in paper,Everyone can simply say abt their own ideal govt which is easy job. And all tat u said already exsist in our current system, like corruption will not be tolerated,everyone is treated as equal, r all in there.What so magical abt ur system which will prevent corruption.Ok we can trust some of the top panel members,how can we trust others.Corruption also exsist in well educated employees also isn't ?.And we r not going to control one single district we need to think all of india.I think this system can only bring chaos tan order since everyone will have different policy.And we will lose all the advantage we hav now by this revolution.And there is no gurantee tat dis will work.Improvements to our current democracy is wt needed,revolution will be a stupid move,And CIA n ISI will be more tan happy as they get the same thing which they r trying to do,so tat india will get partioned or can upset our current system and will be no more a threat to their economy.
Wt i heard is ISI officials are happy when they saw this thread....lol

My revolution is only about making India better and stronger than ever. And if it looks good on paper, it'll look better everywhere else.

What do our governments do to fight corruption? Except for allotting crores over crores to Nehru-Gandhi foundations, which is not hard to imagine where all this money goes? Or donating billions to NGOs of politicians and "social workers"? How many politicians have been sentenced to prisons on corruption charges? And how many of them are currently enjoying their status in parliament? Compare them with a common man, who loses his job, his place in society and spends a few years in state prisons for taking 1,000/- in bribe.

Are you sure the politicians, the police and our judicial systems will correct themselves? Do you believe they'll turn into saints overnight? If you do - you
re brainwashed beyond a recovery.

CIA and ISI are already happier than ever. Most politicians and officers will reveal any secret information for money or beautiful "firangi" women. Perhaps you didn't read about the RAW agent who defected to the US. Haven't you hard of Shahabuddin, the MP of Siwan(Bihar)? He is an ISI agent and accepts openly. In which other country you can find such nice people as in ours? An ISI agent and a Member of Parliament. And he is only one of the known ba$tards. There are countless of such people in our government and bureaucracy.

A revolution will only make CIA and ISI dynfunctional in ths country, if it ever happens.

cyberboy_kerala said:
This is becoz they are brainwashed by negative news ,they think everything in india r wrong n they always make interest in hearing corruption,crimnals.Read positive things tat india is achieving, read both and then think.

No, that's because they've started listening to tunes not aired by the government or its puppet mass media. There is a lot more to the reality beneath the "India Shining" propaganda. Call centers an BPO aren't going to benefit this country in the long run. All they're producing is frustrated youth and a shallow economy that can't be relied upon. Cheap labour is what west thinks of us when they hear "India". This can change, and it's already changing. The so-called "English-speaking" IT mazdoors are being grown in China and Indonesia. Your government isn't going to tell the truth about numerous problems. They only want to you to work 9-5, then have a couple of beers and sleep properly so you can attend the office next day. All this while they're looting all the resources and making sure that corporations take top priority rather than the common citizen.

Have you ever heard of "Blackwater" in the USA? Google, if you haven't. Corporation will have private army of their own in only a few years from now. This "corporatism" not only dangerous for us citizens, it's far more dangerous for our national resources and integrity.

What is India achieving exactly? Forcing farmers to sell their lands to the corporations at cheap rates? Privatizing water to companies like Pepsi and Cola? Replacing research institutions with call-center training facilities? Or ignoring J&K and NE issues for the next government to fiddle with this headache? Or a baseless "superpower" dream, which has only turned us into a stupid laughing-stock?

Who is brainwashed?

-----------------------

aliasghark said:
nope, thats your twisted logic. what i meant was that the 'selectors' won't fall from the sky. they need to be appointed too. who's going to do that?

Not your gardener, and definitely not the soap-seller in a remote village.

C'mon, bring your senses to reality. I like criticism, but not to the point where it becomes personal or irrelevent. In stead, you should put your efforts in critizing the government and the system. Only active participation will make things better. You're mature enough for personal attacks of a bad taste.

revolution comes from

1. Army
2.Farmers

else no one has ability to create revolution

Yamaraj said:
I try to be - always. But there are times when even the coolest minds lose their temper.

But u lose ur temper even before something comes in.

Yamaraj said:
My revolution is only about making India better and stronger than ever. And if it looks good on paper, it'll look better everywhere else.

Yeah,like indian cricket team which is best in paper but no performance.

Yamaraj said:
How many politicians have been sentenced to prisons on corruption charges? And how many of them are currently enjoying their status in parliament?

You are repeating the same things, we all agree corruption exsist to some extent in govt,It exsist every wer in the world.Thats why i asked wt is so magical abt ur system which can prevent corruption.Its like saying i hav a system better tan urs but dont know how it works.And You are saying abt corrupted pepole as tey r some aliens frm other world.They are not born as crimnals,tey turn into bad ass wen power n money comes to ter hand.Same will happen to people(no robots here isn't?) in the new system also n can be even worse since tey r not committed to people.They dont hav to answer peoples questions,tey will put ter policy into action even if it wrong(more tan wt going on now) n ter is no one check tat.And if we dont try to improve our current system frm our gained experience n goes for complete overhaul 50yrs frm now another revolution will be required. Revolution can only make chaos,Its like burnning ur home to kill some rats .

Yamaraj said:
Are you sure the politicians, the police and our judicial systems will correct themselves? Do you believe they'll turn into saints overnight? If you do - you
re brainwashed beyond a recovery.

Not in one day,but if u belive tat it cannot be repaired overtime ten u r certainly brainwashed.

Yamaraj said:
CIA and ISI are already happier than ever. Most politicians and officers will reveal any secret information for money or beautiful "firangi" women. Perhaps you didn't read about the RAW agent who defected to the US. Haven't you hard of Shahabuddin, the MP of Siwan(Bihar)? He is an ISI agent and accepts openly. In which other country you can find such nice people as in ours? An ISI agent and a Member of Parliament. And he is only one of the known ba$tards. There are countless of such people in our government and bureaucracy.

Here too nothing new,same thing happens in CIA,ISI,KGB and even in the best Mossad.There wer one incident wer one of top official of cia turned into kgb spy.
You need to keep in mind that no one has found 100% efficient engine.
The reason why CIA n ISI spy r active india can taken as evidence tat tey fear abt india's growth

Yamaraj said:
No, that's because they've started listening to tunes not aired by the government or its puppet mass media. There is a lot more to the reality beneath the "India Shining" propaganda. Call centers an BPO aren't going to benefit this country in the long run. All they're producing is frustrated youth and a shallow economy that can't be relied upon. Cheap labour is what west thinks of us when they hear "India". This can change, and it's already changing. The so-called "English-speaking" IT mazdoors are being grown in China and Indonesia. Your government isn't going to tell the truth about numerous problems. They only want to you to work 9-5, then have a couple of beers and sleep properly so you can attend the office next day. All this while they're looting all the resources and making sure that corporations take top priority rather than the common citizen

It is amazing tat all these are secret to you.
You may not heard abt changing situation here
,last time some of my freinds wer reluctant to join BPO n even some IT industry(soft),these are all known by everyone.But still some people will join becoz tey want money.Something is better tan nothing.Many r seeing these as only temperary stay.Awarness among people can defeat any gaint.

aliasghark:what i meant was that the 'selectors' won't fall from the sky. they need to be appointed too. who's going to do that?
Yamaraj:Not your gardener, and definitely not the soap-seller...

well done my boy, good answer! next time though, try and answer the question, don't just blurt out a heap of crammed responses ok?

aliasghark said:
well done my boy, good answer! next time though, try and answer the question, don't just blurt out a heap of crammed responses ok?

An apt answer to a stupid question. Boy? Wipe out that smirk off your face. I don't like it. Besides, I'm not under a contract to answer your off-topic questions.

Either stay on-topic or lay it off.

@cyberboy_kerala
If the very idea of a revolution makes "u" sweat and tremble, I suggest "u" keep voting and hoping that another avatar of a god will make things better you "u".

Also, all sort of reservations shud be removed, be it OBC/SC/ST or minority reservation. The 50% reservation in Aligarh Muslim Uiversity and similar universities and colleges shud be removed and people shud be given help at primary level. Also family planning shud be encouraged. What say?

Since in a democracy all the ideals of democracy shud be followed and people shud be treated as equals, then there shud be no sharia laws either. Why shud a person from a specific community be priviledged to marry 4 women? Since everyone has the right to live freely, njoy the sun, make freedom of speech etc therefore the gals shudn't be forced to hide under a burqa. Let them live freely but ethically. So true democracy shud be promoted!!

call it off-topic if you like, but in fact its not.

topic of thread-revolution for india
someone asked-what happens after revolution? what kind of a government do you propose?
you said-a panel of experts must govern
i asked-who selects the panel of experts?

if thats off-topic, i wonder can anything be 'on-topic'?

- - - - - - - -

i agree and say -

there should be no reservation
there should be remedial classes at grassroots level
there should be common law for all
family planning should be encouraged
girls shouldn't be forced into hijab
girls shouldn't be forced out of hijab
everyone should have equal rights
perfected/corrected democracy should prevail

aliasghark said:
call it off-topic if you like, but in fact its not.

topic of thread-revolution for india
someone asked-what happens after revolution? what kind of a government do you propose?
you said-a panel of experts must govern
i asked-who selects the panel of experts?

if thats off-topic, i wonder can anything be 'on-topic'?

Ok, that was a misunderstanding on my part.

People, who take part in the revolution along with the experts and responsible citizens of India, get to choose the panel members. And Amitabh Bachhan won't be the president, rest assured. Anyone, who isn't educated and doesn't even understand the meaning of governance, won't have a say. But surely enough, they'll be given a chance to elect their own representatives, responsible for their development and indirect participation in the government.

With the necessary reforms in place and our constitution re-written to stop the corrupt from becoming ministers and foreigners holding important offices, a simplified and better democratic government will be reinstated.

Our constitution is not a great piece of work. If you have the time and motivation to take a closer look, it's simply a ba$tardadized brainchild of both British and American constitutions and democratic principles. Britain doesn't have a president and band of governors, and USA doesn't have a PM. We, OTOH, have both and unnecessarily so. This unwanted weight must be shredded off. Old and retired politicians are made governors by the ruling political parties and this trend doesn't seem to be wearing off anytime soon. Same goes for the presidency. Isn't it laughable for our democracy that someone proposes Amitabh as next president and some even start taking it seriously?

And I would rather have Arundhati Roy as our next president or PM than Amitabh or Sonia. Besides, ours is not really a "democracy" in strictest of terms. This is the "Republic of India", not a democratic India. And there are differences, but apparantly people haven't been paying enough attention.

aliasghark said:
i agree and say -

there should be no reservation
there should be remedial classes at grassroots level
there should be common law for all
family planning should be encouraged
girls shouldn't be forced into hijab
girls shouldn't be forced out of hijab
everyone should have equal rights
perfected/corrected democracy should prevail

Fine! Now we're talking here.

@Yamaraj
Now who is offensive and short of thoughts n ideas ??

Yamaraj said:
@cyberboy_kerala
If the very idea of a revolution makes "u" sweat and tremble, I suggest "u" keep voting and hoping that another avatar of a god will make things better you "u".

But don't change that avatar of yours which looks like a "psycho" it is PERFECT for you.

Sorry to Brust Your bubble..but what kinda revolution are u talkin bout...Revolution is not like storm tht comes and changes evrything...
India is on the right path and dnt need revolution...
Vr goin to be 2nd largest economy by 2030 and the largest economy by 2050
We need to worry bout pollution and population...The two major concerns
And the other one is in in near future the muslim population wil surpass the hindu population ...Oh god yes dude ur right india do need a revolution

Even if they implement 2 children family planning norm then also it won't help until and unless they stop the Bangladeshi immigration! They will keep coming here, set up encroachments, beg, inface of unemployment will steal, kill and then in frustration will increase the crime.

T

keep_it_rl said:
Sorry to Brust Your bubble..but what kinda revolution are u talkin bout...Revolution is not like storm tht comes and changes evrything...
India is on the right path and dnt need revolution...
Vr goin to be 2nd largest economy by 2030 and the largest economy by 2050
We need to worry bout pollution and population...The two major concerns
And the other one is in in near future the muslim population wil surpass the hindu population ...Oh god yes dude ur right india do need a revolution

If in future muslim population surpass the hindu population then india can say goodbye. Has India will be a islamic nation and will have some islamic name such islamstan and so on. So india is in critical condition.

mediator said:
Even if they implement 2 children family planning norm then also it won't help until and unless they stop the Bangladeshi immigration! They will keep coming here, set up encroachments, beg, inface of unemployment will steal, kill and then in frustration will increase the crime.

Yea. But what is in indian military doing at the border?.

keep_it_rl said:
Sorry to Brust Your bubble..but what kinda revolution are u talkin bout...Revolution is not like storm tht comes and changes evrything...
India is on the right path and dnt need revolution...
Vr goin to be 2nd largest economy by 2030 and the largest economy by 2050
We need to worry bout pollution and population...The two major concerns
And the other one is in in near future the muslim population wil surpass the hindu population ...Oh god yes dude ur right india do need a revolution

I suggest that you read everything posted in this thread before spraying your opinion here. It's not like I haven't heard of such predictions of India becoming a SUPPAPOWER!!1! and the largest economy by 2050. But apprantly you haven't heard of any differences between "propaganda" and ground realities.

India will become the largest economy without manufacturing anything? We'll become more powerful than USA, Russia, China and EU without even solving regional conflicts, that somehow always manage to shame us before the whole World? We'll be the richest nation by 2050 because of call centers and cheap labour? You think India will be able to keep fit with its 1.5 billion strong population and still manage to win the race? Who's been living inside a fragile bubble?

Keep dreaming, and probably one day in a distant future you'll wake up in a completely different land of honest politicians, a humble and smart police force, 100% literacy (and being literate won't tantamount to merely writing your name on a piece of paper), an industrialized World that will be planet-savvy too, an education system that will do more than producing trained employees for corporations, ...ad infinitum.

Wake up already! That won't happen without a proper revolution.

cyberboy_kerala said:
@Yamaraj
Now who is offensive and short of thoughts n ideas ??

But don't change that avatar of yours which looks like a "psycho" it is PERFECT for you.

And the broken violin played on ...ad nauseam.

thunderbird.117 said:
Yea. But what is in indian military doing at the border?.

Taking bribe, getting shot at and flayed open by the BDR.

Yea. But what is in indian military doing at the border?.

What can Indian military do without government's orders? Shud the military start positioning itself at porous Bihar borders or anywhere it likes? Mr.MMS, this government can't even pass orders to kick out the bangladeshis!!

Yups, bribe is another factor!

The exercise on the reduction of troops in Jammu and Kashmir, following Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s announcement, has begun with senior functionaries in the Army determining the number of companies that could be shifted from various sectors.

*www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041115/j&k.htm#1

Even after Seeing the scenario in JnK, they r reducing troops there. What can the military do in such cases? What else makes u think is happening and resulting in the name of peace and friendship with the neighbour? Previous time ABV went to PAKi for friendship and all India got was "Kargil war"!!

T

mediator said:
What can Indian military do without government's orders? Shud the military start positioning itself at porous Bihar borders or anywhere it likes? Mr.MMS, this government can't even pass orders to kick out the bangladeshis!!

Yups, bribe is another factor!

*www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20041115/j&k.htm#1

Even after Seeing the scenario in JnK, they r reducing troops there. What can the military do in such cases? What else makes u think is happening and resulting in the name of peace and friendship with the neighbour? Previous time ABV went to PAKi for friendship and all India got was "Kargil war"!!

Great a reduction of troops in Jammu and Kashmir. Congress sucks terrible. I heard that ISI got into Indian Military and stole some secret military document?. When the indian asked for number of muslim in indian military no answers?. Why are they hiding?.

mediator said:
Previous time ABV went to PAKi for friendship and all India got was "Kargil war"!!

Not to mention he congratulated Mushy on becoming the dicktator of Pakistan - the man who was responsible for the Kargil and death of more than thousand Indian military servicemen.

They're all traitors of motherland!

Yes, it was in news that ISI infiltrated into Indian military as well. Its no surprise! This government wanted to do reservation in army also! :shock:

Reservation in Army will spell disaster

“MERIT is the only criterion for recruitment to the defence forces. There is no reservation for any community. We are against the minority quota in defence forces”, said Army chief General J.J. Singh at the Air Force Academy, Hyderabad, on December 15.

It has been seen that to enlarge their vote bank, certain politicians’ lobby for reservation in the Army before every election. Fortunately enough, the Army has been able to resist the idea of reservation so far. But since politics is a game of votes, one cannot say when the Generals will be made to bow before the mighty politicians to accept the latter’s “verdict”.

Soon after the 1962 debacle, a minority community minister from Punjab approached the Defence Minister Jagjivan Ram and said his community had a grouse that it could not serve the country in the defence forces. He sent a note to the Army chief asking him to examine how the particular community could find representation in the Army.

On examining the record from the historical section of the Ministry of Defence, it was discovered that a battalion raised from this particular group, had mutinied and killed all its officers during World War I. Notwithstanding this, the Army had to raise one company from this community in an infantry battalion due to the political pressure.

Though opinions differ on this subject, Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw says in his foreword to the book “Behind the Scene”: “May perdition fall on the heads of the perpetrators of such a crime-a crime it will be to the traditions of famous regiments, a crime to the nation”. This book was written by the late Major-Gen Joginder Singh.

*www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20061226/cth1.htm

For ur last 2 questions, its better to google for them. U'll not only find answers to those questions but will also find answers to the questions that haven't sprouted in ur mind yet!!

Not to mention he congratulated Mushy on becoming the dicktator of Pakistan - the man who was responsible for the Kargil and death of more than thousand Indian military servicemen.

They're all traitors of motherland!

I don't think that a freedom fighter like ABV will ever betray his country. That congratulation was more of a personal thing between him and mushy, not a professional one as this is what he had to say professionally!
*news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2310519.stm

The Indian Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, has launched an unusually strong attack against Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf. *news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/startquote.gif
Musharraf thought that we will get tired, break apart and surrender Kashmir. This will never happen
*news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/endquote.gif
Prime Minister Vajpayee

He described General Musharraf as a "self-anointed king", and a dictator who had no parallel in the world.
He said President Musharraf had usurped all powers and barred top Pakistani politicians such as ex-Premiers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif from entering Pakistan.
Mr Vajpayee was addressing a gathering of expatriate Indians in the Cypriot capital Nicosia late on Monday at the beginning of a week-long European tour.
His statement came just days before Pakistan holds parliamentary elections aimed at restoring democracy.

T

So many reservation. The india has we know it will not exist after 8 years maybe?.

This is a intresting site *www.roguegovernment.com/

Yamaraj said:
And the broken violin played on ...ad nauseam.

oh i didn't realize dis thread is only for those who want to sing with you.

&

The poverty....

S

Yes Sure. India needs it.
But who is going to DO tHaT.
Well - You guys are so busy talking here that you didn't heard that India falls down.
OK its not true yet but who knows ?? ?? ??

Revolution has already started , again .............

hmm.summing this thread we all can say that ..India's problems are

1. Netas
2. Illiteracy
3. Casteism (upon which reservation is based)
4. Population
5. Illegal Immigrants (Bangladeshis)
6. Multi party system...
7. Lots of languages, cultures and religions

so wat do u suggest solution for each point ?

One religion , one culture and one language would have made India a better and stronger , Like Germany ,USA , Japan , France etc

One religion , one culture and one language would have made India a better and stronger

ya ..but its a daydream which will never happen....

i pray that after full "sarvanaash" of this earth (qayamat,dooms day etc) ...a new civilization wud come up with no religion but only humanity ...

mediator said:
I don't think that a freedom fighter like ABV will ever betray his country. That congratulation was more of a personal thing between him and mushy, not a professional one as this is what he had to say professionally!

I respect ABV more than any other politician. He is a wise old man with decades of real life experience. But we shouldn't forget that even the best of politicians think of the common man as a pawn in a greater game. They are not opposed to sacrificing a few thousand soldiers to gain a political benefit and sympathy of others - all in the name of diplomacy.

Politicians must be wiped out from this country.

Politicians must be wiped out from this country

but how ?

cyberboy_kerala said:
oh i didn't realize dis thread is only for those who want to sing with you.

No, it's not true. And I didn't really mean to offend you. But keep personal vendetta away from this thread for the sake of a greater good. I would like you to actively criticize national problems and my solutions to them.

I don't want people to blindly follow the American dream and their way of life. America is a very young nation, without a history to learn from - very unlike ours. We have not only a very rich past and history, there is a lot we can learn from and make ourselves better. I dislike it when people mimic the American accent, their style, and when they want to mould this country into an ugly heap of concrete like theirs. Why can't we have an Indian economy, Indian way of living with an Indian philosophy of life? Development doesn't tantamount to being copycats.

S

esumitkumar said:
hmm.summing this thread we all can say that ..India's problems are

1. Netas
2. Illiteracy
3. Casteism (upon which reservation is based)
4. Population
5. Illegal Immigrants (Bangladeshis)
6. Multi party system...
7. Lots of languages, cultures and religions

so wat do u suggest solution for each point ?

Ok I am new and unexperienced here but I disagree with you.

1.) Netas :-- Ok some of them are currupt but not all. A politician is elected from the public by public. So If public is currupt , a politician is currupt. Try to remember how many times you bribed a traffic policeman or a policeman. And say by heart that you are not currupt.

2.) Illiteracy :- Its a big problem here. But do you really want to know why is this problem increasing, because most of the teacher appointed at schools in rural area never go there. Children want to study. Their parents want them to study but its "petoo" government workers who are to lazy to work. So its fault of public again.

3.) Casteism :- Ok this is a big problem I know. I am a Brahmin but still I am not against reservation totally. Have you been in rural India. Here are still some places where St. Sc. People cant go because they are so called "Bhangi". Reservation gives them opportunity. Its our so called "high caste" systems fault that they are left behind.
But at end I think reservation should be based on Economic condition not on caste.

4.) Population :- We are now trying to solve this problem, but it seems its fallen from our hands. And i really think that government didn't didanything to solve this problem of increasing population. So its governments fault.

5.) Illegal Immegrants :- I dont know much about this so can't comment.

6. Multi party system :- I think its good. A two-party system requires voters to align themselves in large blocs, sometimes so large that they cannot agree on any overarching principles. Along this line of thought, some theories argue that this allows centrists to gain control. On the other hand, if there are three major parties, each with substantially less than a majority of the vote, two of them may find it necessary to compete for the support of the third. Some argue that this gives the third party inordinate political leverage.

7.) Well you are talking about Indian Culture here. Lots of languages and diffent lifestyles is treasure for India. It distinguishes us from the rest of the world. Think about it if you have a big family , everyone seems to have different liking. So do you hate each other. No naa. You actually support each other not because you need them but because you care for them.
So why should we not care for our Indian people. We just need balance.
Making India just One Religion - One Language country will make it more boring.

EDIT :

#$# Yamaraj Says : I don't want people to blindly follow the American dream and their way of life. America is a very young nation, without a history to learn from - very unlike ours. We have not only a very rich past and history, there is a lot we can learn from and make ourselves better. I dislike it when people mimic the American accent, their style, and when they want to mould this country into an ugly heap of concrete like theirs. Why can't we have an Indian economy, Indian way of living with an Indian philosophy of life? Development doesn't tantamount to being copycats.

I agree to that.

Shalu_Sharma said:
Yes Sure. India needs it.
But who is going to DO tHaT.
Well - You guys are so busy talking here that you didn't heard that India falls down.
OK its not true yet but who knows ?? ?? ??

We, the people! We will shape the future of this nation. But first, I would like people to educate themselves about the issues, the problems, the corruption, evil politicians, the democracy and the republic, and the importance of nature versus technology and economy. I don't want people to vote or take any action without thinking on their own.

Read, as much as you can. May the enlightenment be with you!

esumitkumar said:
but how ?

1. Active revolution - Quick, decisive and effective. You can expect summary executions and bloodshed. But there is this issue of stimulating "aam junta" and the military against the current system, for without the support of both - the revolutionaries will be declared "terrorists" and be hanged or shot.

2. Passive revolution - Educate the masses on the issues and gain their support. Erect "yet another political party" and expect it to win elections in a few decades. But we'll have to rely upon the understanding of masses and whether they're ready to give up casteism, religionism and regionalism for a good governance.

We need to discuss the issues more, though.

^^ Buddy I think India seriously needs an active revolution. We have waited so long...
We cant just wait and watch. But I also agree to Shalu in some points.

_________________________

@Shalu : WelCome aboard. There are very few girls here.

A politician is elected from the public by public

Well ..Shalu u r forgetting the fact that why there exists no min qualification to become a neta ? why not graduate a min qualification. these rules are not made by public but by netas for their own good..majority of janta is gareeb..they dont have time to think these issues...wat they care for that they want 2 waqt roti

..have u seen Swades ? ...u will understand wat rural india is .......and wat are the problems !

Try to remember how many times you bribed a traffic policeman or a policeman. And say by heart that you are not currupt.

ahh..yes i agree..but tell me wud u wait for 1 yr for getting ur passport ? wud u wait for 4 mnths to get ur telephone repaired ....corruption is frm down to top..whr wud u go?? just watch "Saaransh" and understand

because most of the teacher appointed at schools in rural area never go there

ya..but why? cuz they have no fear of firing...thats what all sarkari babu does..they got appointed by bribe...bhai sarkari naukri hai..oopar tak pahunch hai..kaun nikalega inhein...again netas come into picture...who make the policies..NETAS ..and also have u seen gaon ke school..i have seen them...teachers are working for months without pay.....who can teach without getting pay n food ? these are the ground prblms..again who is to balme ..netas and corrupt govt ....

Casteism :- Ok this is a big problem I know. I am a Brahmin but still I am not against reservation totally. Have you been in rural India. Here are still some places where St. Sc. People cant go because they are so called "Bhangi". Reservation gives them opportunity.

and these so called bhangis are enjoying reservation for years n years n years....Dr BR Ambedkar had recommended reservation just for 10 yrs in 1950 to uplift all SC/ST/OBC..but due to vote bank politics ......this has been extended and extended and extended....... damn VP Singh and Arjun Singh....
A dalit person who becomes IAS...his son also enjoys reservation ...his son also...reservation benefit for the whole generations coming only if u r a Bhangi !!!

and these NEtas..why they go to foreign for their treatment ?? why dont they get treated by a SC/ST/OBC Dr..who will leave a scissor in their stomach...A bright upper caste candidate is denied admission and a low rank SC is given admission ?????? IS IT RIGHT ???

We are now trying to solve this problem, but it seems its fallen from our hands. And i really think that government didn't didanything to solve this problem of increasing population. So its governments fault.

fully agree...one citizen of the same country is jailed for second marriage and another citizen of the very same country is allowed for four marriages ...

I think its good. A two-party system requires voters to align themselves in large blocs, sometimes so large that they cannot agree on any overarching principles

and the benefit of multi party system...thousands of crores of taxpayers money gone into drain again and again ...by HUNG HOUSE assembly....i vote party A...u vote B ..somebody C...next one D...hung house comes...even if party A is single largest...B and D combine...and all that horse trading ...usual crap goes on

Lots of languages and diffent lifestyles is treasure for India. It distinguishes us from the rest of the world

haha..and we ppl ourselves say Bihari ....Bihari is considered to be a gaali in India....In Maharashtra..Shiv Sena demolishing shop boards in Pune ..why ??? they want no hindi no english..only marathi written....even when i was pune and had gone to a Dr for X ray.he said "aap kis state se hai ?? " WTF

...(I belong to western UP) ..some more incidences of our self made racism ...

** Shiv Seniks beating Biharis and Assamis when they came to Mumbai for giving railway tests

** Tamilnadu and Kerala opposing "Hindi as national language in 1979"

Making India just One Religion - One Language country will make it more boring

ya ..and for ur entertainment...all ppl fighting over various regions

......
its not making..its like that....our own netas not enforcing "Uniform civil code", removing reservation just due to cheap vote bank politics !!

Peace
Sumit !

Shalu_Sharma said:
Ok I am new and unexperienced here but I disagree with you.

Welcome to chaos!

Shalu_Sharma said:
1.) Netas :-- Ok some of them are currupt but not all. A politician is elected from the public by public. So If public is currupt , a politician is currupt. Try to remember how many times you bribed a traffic policeman or a policeman. And say by heart that you are not currupt.

Most of the politicians and bureaucrats are either corrupt or uneligible - or both. Overall adult literacy rate in India is roughly about 60%, compared to more than 90% in China. For a democracy to succeed, it is necessary that not only the citizens are able to write their names (which is the "sarkari" definition of literacy in India), they must be able to think and talk about the issues. How many voters actually read the election menifesto of political parties? And how many of them question the parties' responsibility to the people in next elections?

Yes, you are right! People are the real problem in this country. They have created a chaos - a messy system because of their inability to think and understand. If you ask me, an average voter doesn't give a damn about voting or elections, and he/she wouldn't care if voting rights were taken away in leu of a better education and medical healthcare system and better employment.

I am of the opinion that no democracy can succeed without 100% devotion and active concern of the citizens. And this is exactly what the "power brokers" are afraid of. They use the police forces, bureaucracy and the red tape to keep the "aam junta" in fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Shalu_Sharma said:
2.) Illiteracy :- Its a big problem here. But do you really want to know why is this problem increasing, because most of the teacher appointed at schools in rural area never go there. Children want to study. Their parents want them to study but its "petoo" government workers who are to lazy to work. So its fault of public again.

This is because the governments want illeterates to continue voting on the issues of casteism, religionalism and regionalism. They don't want the voters to turn into thinkers and philosophers. And not to mention that we Indians are lazy by nature.

Shalu_Sharma said:
3.) Casteism :- Ok this is a big problem I know. I am a Brahmin but still I am not against reservation totally. Have you been in rural India. Here are still some places where St. Sc. People cant go because they are so called "Bhangi". Reservation gives them opportunity. Its our so called "high caste" systems fault that they are left behind.
But at end I think reservation should be based on Economic condition not on caste.

I don't think anyone can disagree with your view on "reservation, based on economy and not social division". But there should be a limit to it - not like what the unscroupulous politicians are doing for their vote banks. They're practically dividing our nation in numerous fragments for their personal benefits.

Shalu_Sharma said:
4.) Population :- We are now trying to solve this problem, but it seems its fallen from our hands. And i really think that government didn't didanything to solve this problem of increasing population. So its governments fault.

The braindwarves sitting in parliament lack foresight. That's the reason why we don't have any long term foreign policies, development plans, and effective will power to contain this population problem. By 2050, I'm not sure if India will become the largest economy, but surely it'll become the biggest populated country, leaving behind China which is three times as larger as India.

Shalu_Sharma said:
5.) Illegal Immegrants :- I dont know much about this so can't comment.

More illegal Bangladeshis in India = more Congress voters. There!

Shalu_Sharma said:
6. Multi party system :- I think its good. A two-party system requires voters to align themselves in large blocs, sometimes so large that they cannot agree on any overarching principles. Along this line of thought, some theories argue that this allows centrists to gain control. On the other hand, if there are three major parties, each with substantially less than a majority of the vote, two of them may find it necessary to compete for the support of the third. Some argue that this gives the third party inordinate political leverage.

I agree that a multi-party system is somewhat better than a two-party one. But I have been thinking seriously about a non-party system. In the long run, political parties effectively hijack the country - dividing it in their interests and policies.

Shalu_Sharma said:
7.) Well you are talking about Indian Culture here. Lots of languages and diffent lifestyles is treasure for India. It distinguishes us from the rest of the world. Think about it if you have a big family , everyone seems to have different liking. So do you hate each other. No naa. You actually support each other not because you need them but because you care for them.
So why should we not care for our Indian people. We just need balance.
Making India just One Religion - One Language country will make it more boring.

Unity in diversity. However great it may sound like, the belief is falling apart. Blame it on ugly regionalism because of politicians, language wars, and even dispute over national resources. We definitely need some more things to identify the whole nation as one - before the diversities take over our unity. We've had the issue of Khalistan. We're dealing with J&K and North-Eastern states. And we have already witnessed formation of new states based on ethnicity and politics.

With each passing day, we're beginning to look like a mere union of different states, with different people with different issues, ideas, languages, customs and loyalities. I don't want to see India divided again.

.

It is argued that India makes its presence felt on only 40% of its land. That 40% has more people in it than the entire US. I like to believe there is hope.
Then again, it must be against hope.
Unity in diversity is just a fancy way of saying we have to stick together for benefit, else we won't get along.
We seek benefit when we see purpose.
That purpose is afforded to us by fear or envy.
Envy makes us compete, fear gives us focus.
I don't think a revolution will change anything however. Humans will be humans.
Statistically, bad guys will always outnumber good guys.
If we assume that there is some order in chaos now, even if a revolution brings more order, chaos will inevitably return and vice versa.

In the so called "Dark ages", feudalism flourished because it offered people stability.
We call ourselves a nation now because we have common interests
For a nation, as in a house we have to:
1.feed ourselves,
2.take care of each other
and then
3.make things better.
Manipulating politician scumbags have their own issues to highlight. (reservation anyone !???)

Clearly, when there are those amongst us who are starving and those who are fattening from their share, there is bound to be bitterness.
One can't think sanely when one is hungry.
In a corrupt democracy like ours, where there is a free for all, everyone is fighting for their share. The desire for more, insatiable. Nothings shining. Its the proverbial rat race.

What we need is to prioritize.
A revolution you say.... give the people food and water and time to rationalize, They shall change. Its for their own selfish sake.

"And not to mention that we Indians are lazy by nature." --> if that is true, don't expect anyone to turn up at your 'revolution party'!

seriously though, i think that is a stupid thing to say. i on the contrary, think we indians are so active, thrifty and energetic that any revolution will be reversed in no time - like it was suggested by ..:: Free Radical ::..

and about the definition of literacy: you didn't like the 'sarkari definition' (able to write your name), so you decided to come up with your own?

Yamaraj said:
must be able to think and talk about the issues

Yamaraj said:
More illegal Bangladeshis in India = more Congress voters.

whats that supposed to mean?

are bangladeshis allowed to vote in indian elections?

is bangladesh a staunch congress ally? how did i miss this... i never saw a congress rally in bangladesh! or are you in effect saying all the congress party members are ethnic bangladeshis? :shock:

T

aliasghark said:
"And not to mention that we Indians are lazy by nature." --> if that is true, don't expect anyone to turn up at your 'revolution party'!

seriously though, i think that is a stupid thing to say. i on the contrary, think we indians are so active, thrifty and energetic that any revolution will be reversed in no time - like it was suggested by ..:: Free Radical ::..

and about the definition of literacy: you didn't like the 'sarkari definition' (able to write your name), so you decided to come up with your own?

whats that supposed to mean? are bangladeshis allowed to vote in indian elections? is bangladesh a staunch congress ally? how did i miss this... i never saw a congress rally in bangladesh! or are you in effect saying all the congress party members are ethnic bangladeshis?

From what i saw in congress the majority of it are muslims.

aliasghark said:
whats that supposed to mean? are bangladeshis allowed to vote in indian elections? is bangladesh a staunch congress ally? how did i miss this... i never saw a congress rally in bangladesh! or are you in effect saying all the congress party members are ethnic bangladeshis?

Here's a little reading that u shud do!

Tackling illegal immigrants
Hard action, not hard talk, is need of the hour
Poonam I. Kaushish

WHAT do boxers practice their skills on? A hard punching bag. And politicians? They use people as dummies. Who can be "knocked out" faster before you can blink. So "punch" drunk are they on power that their blows are more often than not politically-motivated image-building exercises in self-grandeur.

One such knock-out was delivered by Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani last week. Mustering all the authority and iron will at his command, he asserted: “India shall no longer be a soft State. We shall identify, locate and throw out the 15 million illegal Bangladeshis and 11,500 Pakistanis who have overstayed.” He was speaking at a conference of State Chief Secretaries and Directors-General of Police in New Delhi. “They pose a serious threat to national security”, he thundered.

Words worthy of applause. Times indeed are changing, he would have us believe. India is going in for an image from being soft to a pro-active State, which will pull no punches, means business and shall brook no nonsense. So far so good. But the moot point is: will Mr Advani’s words make any damn difference to the existing reality of India being soft, flabby and impotent, a State suffering from a debilitating incompetence — on all fronts. Look around and touch any pokey crevice of governance, the State is insipidly soft and pulpy. There is little law and order. Might is right. And violence is the rhetoric of the period. Throwing out illegal migrants is a far cry.

But that doesn’t stop our Minister from weaving grand dreams of preparing a National Register of Indian Citizens and issuing them Multi-Purpose National Identity Cards. All to provide a credible individual identification system and act as a deterrent against future illegal immigration. It’s another matter that both these schemes have been proposed times out of number over the years. To be promptly disposed of even before concrete action can replace the spoken word.

True, even if one takes an optimistic view that these schemes will be implemented, the proposal itself is half-baked. Instead of providing identity cards for the whole country, the Home Ministry has short-listed only seven states, where the scheme will be implemented. How, one wonders. Specially against the backdrop of its dismal track record. Remember, the Illegal Migrants Detection Tribunal Act, announced in 1983 amidst much fanfare, has largely failed to tackle the problem. The Act followed a prolonged agitation by the All-Assam Students Union (AASU) seeking to throw out all foreigners from the state.

Why did it fail? It was politically incorrect and was an exercise in brazen hypocrisy. All talked about its “uselessness”. But few came forward to change it. Way back in 1997 on a visit to Guwahati, the then Prime Minister, Mr Deva Gowda, courageously announced repeal of the Act. But his declaration turned out to be merely false bravado. His mai baap, the Congress promptly pounced on him and he was forced to eat his words by the time he landed back in New Delhi.

The great tragedy of our country is that illegal immigrants have been allowed to don a communal face to satiate the greedy Indian political animal. Most political parties have recklessly imported them to inflate their vote banks. If detected, they have made a communal issue of their detection and raised the communal banner. The Shiv Sena’s Bal Thackeray had to incur the Opposition’s wrath when he deported 96 Bangladeshis from Mumbai in 1997. So what if it is slowly turning the country into Asia’s waste paper basket.

In fact, Mr Advani’s estimate of illegal immigrants is only the tip of the iceberg. Over the past five decades since Independence, over 25 million illegal immigrants are estimated to have smuggled themselves into India through its porous borders. Today we have over 15 million Bangladeshis, 2.5 million Nepalis, 100,000 Sri Lankan Tamils and about one lakh Tibetan migrants living in India. Against our population of 1,000 million the ratio of illegal migrants is 100 to 2.5.

More. Demographic changes have been brought about in the border belts of West Bengal, several districts of Bihar, the North-East and Rajasthan as a result of large-scale illegal migration. Even the Union Capital (over 5 lakhs) and Maharashtra (over 50,000) have been affected. If Assam boasts of five of its districts adjoining Bangladesh having Bangladeshi Muslim majority, Tripura is a clear example of obliteration of the locals’ identity.

In parts of Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, illegal Pakistanis, of whom some are criminals, now have ration cards. Putting colossal pressure on India’s scarce resources and pushing wages even lower in this already crowded land. Taking jobs away from legitimate citizens. Confided a CPM leader from West Bengal: “The migrants are useful to Delhi. They provide cheap domestic help.” Echoed an Assam MP: “Our farmers are happy to have them. They are more hard-working than the locals.”

But more worrisome is the fact that mercenaries among the insurgents from across the border are slipping into the country in the garb of immigrants. With no method of differentiating between a militant and an immigrant, a grave security threat is posed. Little has been done to analyse and identify this threat perception — particularly keeping in mind the activities of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and its sustained proxy war in Kashmir.

Even madarsas, the Islamic seats of learning, have not been spared. The ISI has heavily infiltrated these and made them their addas of propagating of fundamentalism, ostensibly as a precursor to the ISI’s gameplan for the area: subversion, drug peddling and gun-running. A frightening scenario, to say the least.

Unfortunately, all political parties seem to be turning a blind eye to this menace. The reason is not far to seek. It has everything to do with vote bank politics. Come elections, our leaders care two hoots for legitimate electoral rolls. The methodology adopted is to supply ration cards to illegal immigrants, on the basis of which they get enrolled on the electoral rolls and become the politicians’ electoral fodder. As a leading commentator remarked: “Those Bangladeshis who have been given ration cards and have graduated to the voters’ list have acquired de jure citizenship rights.”

Where do we go from here? Pander to rabid rabble-rousers? Pander to the politics of vote banks? Allow the push and pull theory of illegality to continue. The push back to poverty vs the pull of India’s rich pastures. The option is narrow. The solution must be clearly dictated by India’s primary interest — its integrity and stability. Pakistan’s long-term designs against India need to be sternly thwarted. The proxy war from across the border stands testimony to this. Kashmir must not be repeated elsewhere.

For starters, Mr Advani should come out with a White Paper disclosing the harsh facts and spelling out the NDA government’s plans to combat this grave threat to India’s freedom and integrity. At the same time multi-purpose identity cards should be given to only those who can establish their Indian identity well and truly by way of a birth certificate and proof of lineage. Mere ration cards must not do.

New Delhi could also consider issuing work permits to the Bangladeshis as in the case of Nepalese coming to work in India. This system would enable workers' groups to cross the border under tight restrictions for a maximum period of two years. With a rider, no voting rights and no permanent settlement. New Delhi needs to have a close look at its immigration laws and plug the loopholes.

Clearly, the Centre needs to adopt a two-pronged strategy to stop the influx of Bangladeshis from across the border. From the long- term point of view, the need of the hour is border management and strict policing. Local people need to be taken into confidence and involved in policing along the 14,990 km border running across 92 districts in 17 states and a coastline of 5,422 km touching 12 states. The fact is that if one cannot stop people at the border, then there is no way one can push them back once they are in the country.

Is the government capable of defusing this powder keg? Mere assurances of being pro-active will no longer do. The Centre needs to brace itself for a long and hard struggle ahead. It may even be necessary to launch a series of major offensives at this critical juncture to drive home the message to the illegal immigrants. In this age of proxy wars, it is time for politicians of all hues to stem the snow-balling rot. India has had enough of the poison of vote banks. This must end. No sane and self-respecting country allows foreigners and their protectors to play ducks and drakes with national affairs. - INFA

Now for more of ur questions. Did the left and Congress even pondered about this situation that BJP did indepth?
Read again what the stewpid CPM leader had to say! I bolded and italiced it for u. We all know about the Congress destructions from Nehru to present day family drama. Bangladeshis obviously wont vote for BJP and end their "heavenly life" here. On the other hand Congress is too occupied with vote bank politics to even use its mind on important issues regarding the nation.
On one hand we have Rahul Baba who thinks he is the chosen one and a royal prince, on the other we have Srimati Sonia who can't even speak a word properly. Then we have MMS,a PM, who defied the democratic procedure became (AFAIK) the first "selected" PM instead of a normal "elected" PM.

So if u read newspapers regularly then u wud be knowing that most of the Congress leaders r OBCs/SC/ST and it is nuthing but a minority appeaser!

aliasghark said:
"And not to mention that we Indians are lazy by nature." --> if that is true, don't expect anyone to turn up at your 'revolution party'!

I can see you're already looking for excuses.

aliasghark said:
seriously though, i think that is a stupid thing to say. i on the contrary, think we indians are so active, thrifty and energetic that any revolution will be reversed in no time - like it was suggested by ..:: Free Radical ::..

I never knew Indians were really that active! Which part of country do you really belong to? Maybe I should pack-up and join some energetic activities in your neighbourhood.

Do you know why Indians don't know anything about "pride", "nationality" and self-respect? Because we, as one nation, never went to an all-out total war. Because we don't know how it feels to win, conquer and defeat. Because we've been enslaved for a thousand years now.

Sure, Indians are energetic. But they waste it in their bedrooms - contributing to an ever increasing population to no ends.

aliasghark said:
and about the definition of literacy: you didn't like the 'sarkari definition' (able to write your name), so you decided to come up with your own?

That's what I do. At least I come up with solutions before criticizing others.

aliasghark said:
whats that supposed to mean? are bangladeshis allowed to vote in indian elections? is bangladesh a staunch congress ally? how did i miss this... i never saw a congress rally in bangladesh! or are you in effect saying all the congress party members are ethnic bangladeshis?

Mediator posted a detailed reply. Read it!
Yes, most of the BDs have got their identification/ration cards thanks to politicians, and they do vote. If you haven't been sleeping, you must have heard of a few illegal "aliens", who even got tickets for MP elections.

ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
One religion , one culture and one language would have made India a better and stronger , Like Germany ,USA , Japan , France etc

it will take 1000 yrs to happen... our india will b "sone ki chidiya " then hope those days come back

i c lot of ppl talkin abt corruption here.... u r pointin out at others tat this politicians ,

traffic polic, etc r corrupt, but the corruption exist in ourself wat abt tat, hav u ever

thought abt urself how corrupt u r in daily activities, in thoughts.... we first got to

remove corruption from within tat is wat required the most... then u will see

corruption reducing in ur surroundings, then in city , then in states, it keeps goin

on... stop givin bribe and takin bribe... THE ONE AND ONLY RULE TO AVOID

CORRUPTION. THIS IS AN ACTIVE REVOLUTION WHICH IS BEGINNING FROM THE

SCRATCH IF U START DOIN FRM TODAY....

Yamaraj said:
Yes, most of the BDs have got their identification/ration cards thanks to politicians, and they do vote.

1. doesn't the fact that bangladeshis prefer to migrate to india prove that this nation is not in such a sorry state of affairs (that you want people to believe)?

2. for every bangladeshi that enters india, i'm sure there are more indians who gain foreign citizenship. in the usa, a good number of indians become americans everyday and surrender their indian citizenship. this goes on in virtually every country, only more in developed nations. what is wrong with it? i dont see why you should be so concerned about this phenomenon, so to speak.

3. to the few who are bitter against bangladeshis, i've got news for you - bangladeshis are people too! you can't blame them for trying to live a better life.

Yamaraj said:
Do you know why Indians don't know anything about "pride", "nationality" and self-respect?

this question is invalid because its based on a false assumption (indians don't know)

Yamaraj said:
That's what I do. At least I come up with solutions before criticizing others.

a round of applause for yama please... his solution has finally solved the problems of india

you really think a new definition will change anything? pardon the pun, but are solutions so easy to prepare? :lol:

Anyone seen IBN7 today. If not PLZ watch it.
Everyone is currupt.

See this page
*samachar.com/showurl.php?rurl=*www...dmans-magic-turning-black-money-to-white.html

1. doesn't the fact that bangladeshis prefer to migrate to india prove that this nation is not in such a sorry state of affairs (that you want people to believe)?

Since when did the people started to compare themselves with losers to know about their position in race? If bangladesh is in a more sorry state or India better than Bangladesh, then it doesn't mean we shud stop our development or stop the undo of corruption here.

2. for every bangladeshi that enters india, i'm sure there are more india2. for every bangladeshi that enters india, i'm sure there are more indians who gain foreign citizenship. in the usa, a good number of indians become americans everyday and surrender their indian citizenship. this goes on in virtually every country, only more in developed nations. what is wrong with it? i dont see why you should be so concerned about this phenomenon, so to speak.
ns who gain foreign citizenship. in the usa, a good number of indians become americans everyday and surrender their indian citizenship. this goes on in virtually every country, only more in developed nations. what is wrong with it? i dont see why you should be so concerned about this phenomenon, so to speak.

If US is stewpid then it doesn't mean we shud act like them. BTW, Indians don't go there to cause encroachments, get ration cards or njoy free stuff. Huh, we have reservation system here. I guess its more beneficial to these bangladeshis and Pakistanis. Do u have the same thing to say about Indians in US? They go there becoz of their merit and not to cause "security problems". They go there after applying for VISAS, after proper checkup. They go there to do their work/job and not to set up a few madrassas and setup terrorists hotspots. Rarely u'll find any Indians begging there or doing miserable things. The established repute of Indian engineers and doctors in the world isn't there without a reason.

So I don't see why u shudn't be concerned about this phenomenon unless ur a paki terrorist urself, so to speak!

3. to the few who are bitter against bangladeshis, i've got news for you - bangladeshis are people too! you can't blame them for trying to live a better life.

Keep this to urself and tell that to people who slaughter goats worldwide. They have pain and feelings too.
Over population => lack of resources => fights => scarcity of jobs => unemployment => poverty => uneducation => illiteracy => unemployment => frustration => criminal mindset => crime => insecurity => destruction of the society! This is a chain of events that happen when population goes out of control.

We r trying to discuss population control here and here u r saying we shud let bangladeshis enter. How absurd! If u care for them that much, then enter bangladeshi forums, enlighten them with ur knowledge, preach them about humanity and tell them to revolt in bangladesh instead of making situation in India more miserable!!

BTW I didn't see u commenting and quoting my reply about bangladeshis encroaching here, causing 'security problems', getting free stuff. Instead u tried to advocate their misery here, that too by absurdly comparing them to Indians going to US? Are u a bangladeshi?

A

mediator said:
Over population => lack of resources => fights => scarcity of jobs => unemployment => poverty => uneducation => illiteracy => unemployment => frustration => criminal mindset => crime => insecurity => destruction of the society! This is a chain of events that happen when population goes out of control.

I completely agree you !!
1] Population control was very essential for India and it should have been given more importance than other things when India became independent. That time it was not so tough as it has grown today.
2] Social/Public awareness is also equally important. We talk of development, India is makin gin every field, Industrialization, Medical technology etc. but how many people are really aware of that in reality?? Forget about benefeting from them most of them don't even know that such things are happening around. People in cities are more exposed to such things and hence they are warea of it, but not people in rural or semi-urban areas, who are the largest contributor when deciding in an election. These only are the people, which the politicians lure with money and hollow promises.

Just consider this scenario:

a)A single party never comes as ruling party in all states and it account for max of 60% of the required number of seats to win.
b) Average Percentage of voting in India is not more than 55%
Conclusively, we can say 60% of the 55% people are represented at the centre while others or NOT.
c) Since other partie also come into power, we all know the dog-fight they play everyday and as a result, development comes to a halt.

Today though we are talking about change here in thia forum, but how many people really are thinking of the total population of India?? To change anything, the first step is to feel the NEED for it and that's not there in the Indians.

As per me, the first thing that should be improved is awareness among people. If that happens, rest can be achieved.

Agreed!
But "Awareness" is the term that politicians in UP,Bihar etc are most afraid of and thats where we need full fledged media support! But only if they r done with K* serials of starplus, mika-raki, shilpa shetty etc. They not only need to make the people aware, but they also need to enlighten them about the working prcedures, the promises that were given in past, the history of the political party and give some full fledged reviews so that those people who can't make their opinions atleast start pondering over the issue after reading the awareness and reviews!

Guys Lets Start A Revolution ....lets Bring Down All The Government Websites......from Now On Users Of The Thread Will Be Called

Krantikari Ekta Sangh......

Only Middle Class Can Save This Nation .....forget About Makin Lower Class Aware....they Dont Give A F*** Bout The Country(not Their Fault Most Of Them Cant Even Get 2 Proper Meals In A Day).....

LETS DO SOMETHING ..MAKE HEADLINES AND GET HEARD...
AND GET THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THIS........

IT WILL BE THE BIGGEST MOVEMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY....
LETS JOIN HANDS AND START A REVOLUTION FROM THE INTERNET ONLY.....

THINGS WE CAN DO....
1...BUILD OUR OWN WEBSITE...
2.DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE ON DIFFERENT PLATFORMS
POSTING ON FORUMS
BLOGS
ARTICLES
3.ORGANIZING MEETS IN DIFFERENT CITIES(IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME THOUGH)
4.RELEASING A MANIFESTO STATING ALL THE PROBLEMS WE NEED TO DEAL WITH AND DISTRIBUTING IT IN COLLAGES AND SCHOOLS....

GUYS LETS DO THIS.......AND CHANGE OUR COUNTRY
AND GUYS PLZ STOP WHINING,COMPLAINING AND CRYING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND BECOME PRO SOLUTION AND PRO CHANGE......

T

keep_it_rl said:
Guys Lets Start A Revolution ....lets Bring Down All The Government Websites......from Now On Users Of The Thread Will Be Called

Krantikari Ekta Sangh......

Only Middle Class Can Save This Nation .....forget About Makin Lower Class Aware....they Dont Give A F*** Bout The Country(not Their Fault Most Of Them Cant Even Get 2 Proper Meals In A Day).....

LETS DO SOMETHING ..MAKE HEADLINES AND GET HEARD...
AND GET THE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THIS........

IT WILL BE THE BIGGEST MOVEMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY....
LETS JOIN HANDS AND START A REVOLUTION FROM THE INTERNET ONLY.....

THINGS WE CAN DO....
1...BUILD OUR OWN WEBSITE...
2.DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE ON DIFFERENT PLATFORMS
POSTING ON FORUMS
BLOGS
ARTICLES
3.ORGANIZING MEETS IN DIFFERENT CITIES(IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME THOUGH)
4.RELEASING A MANIFESTO STATING ALL THE PROBLEMS WE NEED TO DEAL WITH AND DISTRIBUTING IT IN COLLAGES AND SCHOOLS....

GUYS LETS DO THIS.......AND CHANGE OUR COUNTRY
AND GUYS PLZ STOP WHINING,COMPLAINING AND CRYING ABOUT THE PROBLEMS AND BECOME PRO SOLUTION AND PRO CHANGE......

Well you really need to type in lower case. Like how others are typing.

A

i guess he got must excited and spirited

I'm all for a quick and decisive coup againt this government. But unless we manage to convince the armed forces, and a lakhs of people on roads in our support, we're not going to succeed.

We must form a tight and close group of true patriots - educated and wise people. Only then can we even start thinking about bringing a revolution to the people.

i understand
But We need to b heard by people..
Do something that makes headlines...
For eg hack into indian railway online reservation system

keep_it_rl said:
For eg hack into indian railway online reservation system

And also put some bombs in trains so that ordinary people will suffer...this is not GTA SA man

S

cyberboy_kerala said:
And also put some bombs in trains so that ordinary people will suffer...this is not GTA SA man

BULLS EYE!

India need revoluton but it require a charismatic leader not shelfish one's

leader's like who can change fortune and stand like a rock in every condition

like hitler ,stalin , napolean , churchill ,lenin ,roosevelt etc ,who must be uncompromising on all fronts for national interest

A leader who kills his own people on mass scale? Yea thats quite unselfish and in national interest! I know someday u'll speak something sensible!

All the goverment are killer ,some do on large some on small scale .

And yet u provide ur expert opinion that enhances that scale? HOw absurd!

T

ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
India need revoluton but it require a charismatic leader not shelfish one's

leader's like who can change fortune and stand like a rock in every condition

like hitler ,stalin , napolean , churchill ,lenin ,roosevelt etc ,who must be uncompromising on all fronts for national interest

What iam hearing?. Hitler was a good leader for you?. For years he wanted to kill many jews. He wanted to kill many people there is. And you call that killer your leader?. How shameless.

No shame , why shame . Hitler killed it was his own mentality .

but he was charismatic leader ,No one can deny it .

T

ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
No shame , why shame . Hitler killed it was his own mentality .

but he was charismatic leader ,No one can deny it .

Yes sir no one can deny that yes sir got that sir. Roger that sir.

eh?.

Good leader ship is distant dream for India for atleast 5-10 yrs ,since new generation of congress coming up , they can change the fortune of india. in coming time

Hmmm so u r a congress supporter ? Looks like u have a lotta faith in congress. I agree they can change the face of India...like they did in the last 60 years? The new generation consisting of a family drama and an impotent rahul baba who says insensible stuff in public is good enough only for ekta kappor's shows. U need to read news papers more often instead of hallucinating about Hitler,stalin etc and then feeling intoxicated about it!

else Congress ,who is there in India ?? Rahul is surely future PM of India , He can change .Rahul gave good stuff in public , like partioning pakistan etc what was insensible in that . Or Other option is leftist .

BJP is no no , because it is a poisnous snake of communalism

Read and get enlightened!

Lucknow: Rahul Gandhi is "obsessed with his family", feel Islamic clerics and opposition leaders, blasting the Congress MP's remarks that the Gandhi family was responsible for India's independence and Bangladesh's creation.

The scion of India's first political family stated at an election rally in Uttar Pradesh in Badaun district Sunday that "members of the Gandhi family have always achieved the goals they have initiated - be it the nation's independence or splitting Pakistan into two by creation of Bangladesh".

The statement had invited strong disapproval from Pakistan.

Leading Shia cleric and scholar Maulana Kalbe Jawaad and Lucknow's Naib Imam Maulana Khalid Rasheed, who heads one of India's oldest Islamic institutions, Firangi Mahal, were critical of Rahul's comments.

"Is he is so obsessed with his family that he wants to hog all the credit for anything and everything? Then he should also be ready to take the blame for the partition of India as well," observed Jawaad. "Perhaps he forgot to add that."

"I really wonder why he was out to give a handle to communal forces by making such statements at a time when the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) and its allies are desperately trying to fan communal passions," Rasheed told IANS Monday.

"I fail to understand what makes Rahul think that both the partition of the country or creation of Bangladesh were any kind of feather in the Gandhi family cap," he said.

"In fact, both were retrograde steps that failed to help India in any manner. Wouldn't it have been so much better if we were one big nation?"

On Rahul's remarks on India's independence, the Maulana wanted counseled Rahul: "He must realise that there were very many other leaders who laid down their lives for our independence. How could he go to the extent of even ignoring the father of the nation Mahatma Gandhi?"

Interestingly, even BJP veteran Lalji Tandon sought to know "if Rahul was trying to confuse the people of this country that his Gandhi lineage was the same as that of Mahatma Gandhi?"

Tandon, who, besides being former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's Man Friday in Lucknow is also the state's opposition leader in the assemb ly, added sarcastically: "I have known a lot of foreigners who believe the Nehru-Gandhi clan to be a part of Mahatma Gandhi's family. And I would not be surprised if an ignorant Rahul too lives under that illusion."

BJP state president Keshrinath Tripathi, also a highly accomplished lawyer at the Allahabad High Court, flayed Rahul Gandhi for being "too obsessed" with his own family.

"Apparently, Rahul has yet to grow out of a mindset where he cannot think beyond his own family. I will not be surprised if he actually believes that it was just his Gandhi family that got India independence. Maybe, Mahatma Gandhi does not figure in his list at all," Tripathi said.

Samajwadi Party general secretary Amar Singh dismissed Rahul's remark as an expression of his "bid to hog the limelight in a state where the Congress exists only for namesake".

"Rahul Gandhi keeps issuing such immature statements so that he can remain in the headlines. After all, he knows that his party only has marginal presence in this state," he said.

Source

So u see ur saviour Rahul Baba in which u have such a fervent belief is nuthing but an ignorant, immature, family-obsessed kid! All that congress did so far is causing partition of India and other miseries (which I don't expect u to know about) which is the cause of the Kashmir trouble, terrorist bombings in India etc. So please be my guest, worship Rahul baba as much as u want.
A person's role model reflects his personality, mentality, social outlook etc. Wise people have wise role models. But urs is Rahul Baba. How laughable!

A

mediator said:
Read and get enlightened!
So u see ur saviour Rahul Baba in which u have such a fervent belief is nuthing but an ignorant, immature, family-obsessed kid! All that congress did so far is causing partition of India and other miseries (which I don't expect u to know about) which is the cause of the Kashmir trouble, terrorist bombings in India etc. So please be my guest, worship Rahul baba as much as u want.
A person's role model reflects his personality, mentality, social outlook etc. Wise people have wise role models. But urs is Rahul Baba. How laughable!

Agreed Completely

yepp yepp yepp
u guys are all talk and no action...
U All r talkin bout wht India needs
For a change lets talk bout wht u can contribute towards that need..
Can u do rallies in the scorching summer Like rahul did.
Can u
I'm not saying that rahul is the ray of hope or anything
Moreover i hate Congress(The way they use reservation trump card)
So stop Criticizing
Its easy to criticize than to be correct.

Can u do rallies in the scorching summer Like rahul did.

Can u do rath yatra at the age of 70+ like advani did? I hope u know what rath yatra is!

More, can u stage anti-reservation protest like we students in Delhi did? Can u go on hunger strike for several weeks and bear the lathis and water cannons of police?
U think all we do is talk, then tell who gave the data to SC about OBC that it was based on 1930s statstics? Why the SC has stayed the 27% reservation?

If u have seen enough of Rang De Basanti then please do the necessary! Such problems can be dealt with if we discuss this more and more. I hope u understand that!

S

mediator said:
Read and get enlightened!
Source

So u see ur saviour Rahul Baba in which u have such a fervent belief is nuthing but an ignorant, immature, family-obsessed kid! All that congress did so far is causing partition of India and other miseries (which I don't expect u to know about) which is the cause of the Kashmir trouble, terrorist bombings in India etc. So please be my guest, worship Rahul baba as much as u want.
A person's role model reflects his personality, mentality, social outlook etc. Wise people have wise role models. But urs is Rahul Baba. How laughable!

and is yours a shia cleric? are you a shia muslim?

As sunny deol says, "I'm Indian"!

sadabakwas said:
and is yours a shia cleric? are you a shia muslim?

Are you a Bangladeshi?

T

Yamaraj said:
Are you a Bangladeshi?

Or are you a Pakistani?.

....

A

i think it's better for us to stay in our own country..!!! ;-)

mediator said:
Can u do rath yatra at the age of 70+ like advani did? I hope u know what rath yatra is!

More, can u stage anti-reservation protest like we students in Delhi did? Can u go on hunger strike for several weeks and bear the lathis and water cannons of police?
U think all we do is talk, then tell who gave the data to SC about OBC that it was based on 1930s statstics? Why the SC has stayed the 27% reservation?

If u have seen enough of Rang De Basanti then please do the necessary! Such problems can be dealt with if we discuss this more and more. I hope u understand that!

wht does that suppose to mean....Read ah post agin ..
I never compared Rahul ghandi with anybody..
I think Students protesting against reservation is awesome...
But i hate Advani Bcoz
They always supported Hindutva and Saman Achar Sahinta
wanna read more bout it
*www.bjp.org/history/htvintro-mm.html

But when Arjun Singh Declared 25% reservation They were no where to be seen
No statements ,nothing..
Students were harassed by the police in those rallies,Still they where hiding in their closets..
Btw i was a part of that rally..

VHP and RSS who oppose valentines day and burn shops down on the name of Hindutva didnt utter a word when muslims were declared a minority..
Rahul is young and i hope he has fresh ideas he is the best choice until a revolution..

Dude u sound a real Forum addict to me.
With no social life at all.
I bet u download all the movies u watch..
Keep on Cryin about the problems in the thread with less than 20 subscribers.
Oh my god ur goin to change this country..

Are u ok? Flames bounces off my head u know. U r speaking like a constipated kid unable to speak to the topic, to the point!

keep_it_rl said:
But i hate Advani Bcoz
They always supported Hindutva and Saman Achar Sahinta

And what's so bad about it? Why only Muslims should have their personal laws? Let's have separate laws and constitution for every religion, sect and neighbourhood, and watch our nation disintegrate before our own eyes.

Why is that it's "secular" to talk about Islamic laws and shariya, and "fundamentalism" when it comes to Hindutva? Why is it that muslims got away with their own Islamic country, and still demand special rights here? I have nothing personal against muslims, but I'm a strong supporter of a "Common Civil Code". Any form of appeasement must be stopped in the benefit of this country and its integrity.

@keep_it_rl: WTH, u edited ur post!

Rahul is young, but he is an immature, ignorant, family obsessed kid! Read post #184. Thats correct they shud have spoken when reservation was implemented and other things u said.

But did Rahul oppose reservation? Did he oppose muslim reservation, the concept of muslim vote? Did he ever went to remotest vollages of North-east and Bihar? Did he ever condemned his forefather's actions of diving the country to paki-India and other miseries that congress caused? Why doesn't he addresses bangladeshi immigration problem?

Why is it Bukari is still roaming around freely when he has several complaints against him? Why is he not preaching but doing politics? Why is it that only middle class hindus have to suffer and have to compromise? Why do they see the godhra issue in favour of Muslims when it was the muslims who started the whole issue and burnt the train?

So if other party's appeasing in favour of minority isn't communal, then I don't see RSS,VHP etc as communal either!

As far BJP is concerned, the country had the max. piece in that era of Vajpayee. They did more good to this country in 5 years than congress destroyed the country in their 50+ yrs of rule. In BJP's time we didn't see so much misery that we see now. Atleast BJP has some educated leaders, but congress is so short of leaders that it nominated a firangi as the party leader and instead of "electing", it "selected" a dummy as a PM.

So saying Rahul is the future is quite insensible when u can see how he is performing in the public and speaking immature words! "Con"gress is the opposite is "Pros"gress/Progress.

Neways its good to see someone who took part in the rallies tooo.

ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
else Congress ,who is there in India ?? Rahul is surely future PM of India , He can change .Rahul gave good stuff in public , like partioning pakistan etc what was insensible in that . Or Other option is leftist .

BJP is no no , because it is a poisnous snake of communalism

First things first.

1. Indira "Nehru" was the daughter of Jawahar Lal Nehru.
2. She asked "Bapu Gandhi" to adopt "Firoz Khan", so she could marry him as per her father's desires.
3. Rajiv Khan-Nehru-Gandhi was the son of Indira Khan-Nehru-Gandhi.
4. He changed his name to "Rajiv Roberto", so he could marry Sonia Maino.
5. Raul (not "Rahul") and Bianca (not "Priyanka") Roberto-Maino-Khan-Nehru-Gandhi belong to a clan of liars and fakers. They're nobody.

Raul doesn't have the experience, skills, or anything else that it takes to be the Prime Minister of a country as large and susceptible to disintegration as India.

And, why can't you be the PM, or me, or someone else? If this nation is to survive, we must get rid of this fake clan of liars and traitors of motherland.

Even I didn't know about this "select an option"/"audience poll"/50-50/phone a friend thing about "Roberto-Maino-Khan-Nehru-Gandhi". Hmmmm!

So in short "Gali ka kutta na ghar ka na ghat ka"....this is what congress's family drama is about!!

Yamaraj said:
And what's so bad about it? Why only Muslims should have their personal laws? Let's have separate laws and constitution for every religion, sect and neighbourhood, and watch our nation disintegrate before our own eyes.

Why is that it's "secular" to talk about Islamic laws and shariya, and "fundamentalism" when it comes to Hindutva? Why is it that muslims got away with their own Islamic country, and still demand special rights here? I have nothing personal against muslims, but I'm a strong supporter of a "Common Civil Code". Any form of appeasement must be stopped in the benefit of this country and its integrity.

Aye aye Dude ..Read the post carefully before giving ur expert comment...

keep_it_rl said:
But i hate Advani Bcoz
They always supported Hindutva and Saman Achar Sahinta
wanna read more bout it
*www.bjp.org/history/htvintro-mm.html
But when Arjun Singh Declared 25% reservation They were no where to be seen
No statements ,nothing..
Students were harassed by the police in those rallies,Still they where hiding in their closets..
Btw i was a part of that rally..

VHP and RSS who oppose valentines day and burn shops down on the name of Hindutva didnt utter a word when muslims were declared a minority..
Rahul is young and i hope he has fresh ideas he is the best choice until a revolution..

keep_it_rl said:
Aye aye Dude ..Read the post carefully before giving ur expert comment...

You should thank me for not commenting on your excellent writing style.

mediator said:
@keep_it_rl: WTH, u edited ur post!

Rahul is young, but he is an immature, ignorant, family obsessed kid! Read post #184. Thats correct they shud have spoken when reservation was implemented and other things u said.

But did Rahul oppose reservation? Did he oppose muslim reservation, the concept of muslim vote? Did he ever went to remotest vollages of North-east and Bihar? Did he ever condemned his forefather's actions of diving the country to paki-India and other miseries that congress caused? Why doesn't he addresses bangladeshi immigration problem?

Why is it Bukari is still roaming around freely when he has several complaints against him? Why is he not preaching but doing politics? Why is it that only middle class hindus have to suffer and have to compromise? Why do they see the godhra issue in favour of Muslims when it was the muslims who started the whole issue and burnt the train?

So if other party's appeasing in favour of minority isn't communal, then I don't see RSS,VHP etc as communal either!

So saying Rahul is the future is quite insensible when u can see how he is performing in the public and speaking immature words! "Con"gress is the opposite is "Pros"gress/Progress.

Neways its good to see someone who took part in the rallies tooo.

Dude the point im tryna make out here is...all the politicians are same ..I used to be a hardcore supporter BJP was a part of vhp for 2 years
They came into power because of hindutva But did nothin for it..
And thts crazy they started following What they always reffered as pseudo secularism...
They belived in removing reservation completely but did nothing about ..
They only thing matters to them is being in power .And they can bend their ideology according to their needs

As far BJP is concerned, the country had the max. piece in that era of Vajpayee. They did more good to this country in 5 years than congress destroyed the country in their 50+ yrs of rule. In BJP's time we didn't see so much misery that we see now. Atleast BJP has some educated leaders, but congress is so short of leaders that it nominated a firangi as the party leader and instead of "electing", it "selected" a dummy as a PM.

ur so ignorant of the facts and still under the influence of India shining ..
Process of liberalization started under the rule of Rajiv Ghandi..And its results were on its full peak ,whn BJP was in power so they tried to take the credit...

India used be a socialist country in years after independence to allow indigenous Businesses to grow and develop.Than in 90s process of liberalization started.Duties,taxes for non Indian companies reduced ..And dude BJP Has nothing to do with it.
Our economy and GDP is growin on the same rate...just check the facts..

T

Yamaraj said:
You should thank me for not commenting on your excellent writing style.

HAHAHAHAHA. Hehe

Dude the point im tryna make out here is...all the politicians are same ..I used to be a hardcore supporter BJP was a part of vhp for 2 years
They came into power because of hindutva But did nothin for it..
And thts crazy they started following What they always reffered as pseudo secularism...
They belived in removing reservation completely but did nothing about ..
They only thing matters to them is being in power .And they can bend their ideology according to their needs

Absolutely, then y do u have such faith in Rahul baba who spent his years in foreign and is ignorant about Indian history and realities and says immature words? Do u like his white skin?

ur so ignorant of the facts and still under the influence of India shining ..
Process of liberalization started under the rule of Rajiv Ghandi..And its results were on its full peak ,whn BJP was in power so they tried to take the credit...

India used be a socialist country in years after independence to allow indigenous Businesses to grow and develop.Than in 90s process of liberalization started.Duties,taxes for non Indian companies reduced ..And dude BJP Has nothing to do with it.
Our economy and GDP is growin on the same rate...just check the facts..

R u trying to deviate the topic or do u experience a hard time understanding plain English?

When did I say anything about GDP etc? R u ok?

Under which party's rule was reservation battle was at its peak? Why is farmer's suicide increasing so much? Why did we witness so many terrorist attacks in Congress's era => delhi blast,mumbai,srinagar,malegaon blasts.....? Why do the congressies keep on singing peace tune and terrorists take advantage of it? On what basis did they attack Baba ramdev => bones in medicine? What a pity that no bones were found and the leftists still show their ugly faces, while they have hardly anything to say the same about Bukhari!

Why didn't we witness so much misery in BJP's era? What the heck atleast they addressed the bangladeshi immigration problem. Read!

Like some say "leftists" cannot be "right" and "congress" cannot "progress"! And so their alliance is deadly for the nation!

BJP was full thieves and Thugs ,they had biggest scams in their regime

and this forum has few TROLLS who like to write one line sentence and don't want to do a proper discussion!

mediator said:
Why did we witness so many terrorist attacks in Congress's era => delhi blast,mumbai,srinagar,malegaon blasts.....? Why do the congressies keep on singing peace tune and terrorists take advantage of it?

BJP is no different frm congress, Why not saying abt parliment attack (dec 13) one of the biggest shame for india, wat abt dec 6 which party gained frm it(master mind). Wt happend in gujarat. Both sides hav problems dont cover up one side

cyberboy_kerala said:
BJP is no different frm congress, Why not saying abt parliment attack (dec 13) one of the biggest shame for india, wat abt dec 6 which party gained frm it(master mind). Wt happend in gujarat. Both sides hav problems dont cover up one side

I agree! And that's because all political parties are full of evil politicians, criminals, scammers, opportunists, and scoundrels of the worst kind. There is not a single political party that is truly patriot, and free of these issues. Hence my call for a revolution.

Who is covering? I know about BJP as much as I know about congress. But saying Congress is our future hope etc is just lame! Did I say BJP is our future hope?
The discussion about this started from post #181 where some people have the notion that the new generation will do some good where the new generation has already started showing its immaturity.

I had a discussion with @keep_it_rl who said the same thing as u did now if u cared to read that!

Neways, thats what almost everybody has been saying that no political party is good, they r all the same. And thus we need revolution, a new political party/government as the thread creator said, "An ideal government can be a board/panel of a few honest intellectuals like our President, philosophers, top military generals, civil servants and benevolent corporate minds like Narayan Murthi." , a government that can uphold democracy truely and strongly.
And please try to read from where u left before quoting me again!

mediator said:
POST 196 As far BJP is concerned, the country had the max piece in that era of Vajpayee
In BJP's time we didn't see so much misery that we see now.

mediator said:
post 203
Why didn't we witness so much misery in BJP's era?

Did we hav god time in bjp's era,ur posts clearly says bjp is better tan congress.So post 206 was necessary.
And at post 208 ur saying "they r all the same" why changing ur sound now.

Isn't that so true that in BJP's time we witnessed much less misery than in this congress era? Humans have a tendency to forget the past and thats why its no wonder that history is repeated again n again!

Ur only claims were GUjarat and terrorist attacks on Parliament? Well some said about scams too. Well tell me who started the Gujarat violence?
Its a pity that terrorists failed in parliament attack else we wud be having completely new set of political parties. And who doesn't do scams in politics? Atleast the frequency of terrorist's attacks was reduced dramatically, atleast they adressed the bangladeshi immigration problem.

What is congress doing? Ignoring the plight of poor people, soldiers, causing reservation that too on large scale and various other miseries?

So yes as far as I can remember the BJP's era "We didn't witness so much misery in BJP's time". By that, it doesn't mean that we didn't witness misery at all. But then again I say that all political parties are the same cause they r all corrupt, cause scams, scandals, bend their ideologies etc like @keep_it_rl said!

Does that gives u a hard time acknowledging the difference between my posts?

Like I said, u shud read from where u left. Its similar (not same) to a typical OS war, where an annoying fanboy says OS1 is good and talks ignorantly about OS2. So u give him cons of OS1 and pros of OS2 so as to stop his rants. Does that make it clear for u? I hope u understand plain english!

Yamaraj said:
You should thank me for not commenting on your excellent writing style.

What a comeback
A person who started the thread about revolution..
Is making such childish comments....

Our country is full of lousy people like u who think they are the intellectuals if they can criticize...

cyberboy_kerala said:
Did we hav god time in bjp's era,ur posts clearly says bjp is better tan congress.So post 206 was necessary.
And at post 208 ur saying "they r all the same" why changing ur sound now.

exactly
Mediator ur so confused

keep_it_rl said:
What a comeback
A person who started the thread about revolution..
Is making such childish comments....

Our country is full of lousy people like u who think they are the intellectuals if they can criticize...

Wake up! You can't expect me to read and reply to poorly formatted text of yours, that don't even follow basic grammar rules. Take your time and properly format your posts before hitting the button, and it'll make more sense to the rest of us.

Thanks for the compliments, but I didn't mean to offend.

keep_it_rl said:
cyberboy_kerala said:

Did we hav god time in bjp's era,ur posts clearly says bjp is better tan congress.So post 206 was necessary.
And at post 208 ur saying "they r all the same" why changing ur sound now.

Click to expand...

exactly
Mediator ur so confused

Please dont think everybody is like u.

I already gave a reply to that para if u cared to read that. Read it and tell what does ur brain (if any) infer from that.
And u shud support ur comments u know instead of being a stereotype who doesn't have anything else to say and then comments "Ur this n that, u <insert any flame>"!

Follow ethics and do proper quote and reply debate. It seems u r so confused that u don't even know how to follow ethics of a debate. Now quote!!

The Indian politics revolves around religion ,caste and regional politics .If these three are destroyed certainly ,Indian democracy will be Flawless

The politics should revolves around nationalism .

mediator said:
Its a pity that terrorists failed in parliament attack.
as far as I can remember the BJP's era "We didn't witness so much misery in BJP's time"

Terrorist failed in parliment attack...Lol,tey wer able to kill 13 people if i am correct.Indian parliment attack is not like bomb blast in markets(bomb blast in markets r more difficult to handle) .Parliment is on of the most guarded place in india and still first time in history some people died in parliment attack wich was in BJP's era,wt abt dec 6,before this incident bjp was vry small party.

mediator said:
So yes as far as I can remember the BJP's era "We didn't witness so much misery in BJP's time". By that, it doesn't mean that we didn't witness misery at all.

BJP did't get enough time to do more.

mediator said:
where an annoying fanboy says OS1 is good and talks ignorantly about OS2. So u give him cons of OS1 and pros of OS2 so as to stop his rants.

What if os2 does't hav pros as u said,and if u r giving fake pros of os2,so again post 206 was necssarry.Ofcourse you can disagree in post 206,but u r saying it was unnecessary.

yes. india needs some revolution. Govt. Services must be improved, people should be educated, etc. The current state of Govt. Services is worst. Our experience with BSNL is that once you give a complain about the phone, after 1 week they come. If you call them daily and fire them, they them come in a day or two. While our experience with Reliance Infocomm is

Once a complain is given it is attended within 2 days. No need to fire them.

Terrorist failed in parliment attack...Lol,tey wer able to kill 13 people if i am correct.Indian parliment attack is not like bomb blast in markets(bomb blast in markets r more difficult to handle) .Parliment is on of the most guarded place in india and still first time in history some people died in parliment attack wich was in BJP's era,wt abt dec 6,before this incident bjp was vry small party.

Keep on counting the attacks. U r so happy that they were able to kill 13 people. So when u r finally done with ur homework, compare it with the frequency in this congress's era! It seems u like reading morning newspapers with news of a farmer's/soldier's suicide, "how many killed in East and then in JnK". Now they r even thinking of honouring MF HUSSAIN. I hope u know the story!

BJP did't get enough time to do more.

And now we face 27% reservation crisis for OBC and more for others. But ofcors its bad that they didn't oppose it, after all the work of opposition is to think broadmindedly and speak against such decisions!

What if os2 does't hav pros as u said, and if u r giving fake pros of os2,so again post 206 was necssarry.

And what pros OS1 has? I already gave a few for OS2.

Let me repeat the OS war again.

An Annoying fanboy 'A' rants about OS1 and talks ignorantly about OS2. 'B' gives him cons of OS1 and pros of OS2 to stop his rants. But Now another user C, comes in an unusual manner, joins the debate 'inbetween', doesn't even know what has been debated and then thinks 'B' is ranting! Like I said its similar not same! I hope u know the diff. between same and similar!

Ofcourse you can disagree in post 206,but u r saying it was unnecessary.

Ofcors I acknowledge that Parliament attack was a shame when did I disagree on that? All I'm saying that is that the terrorists failed to massacre the corrupt leaders. But u didn't answer my question, who started Gujarat riots?

So u see its better to see this situation from both sides instead of saying "what about gujarat", "what about ayodhya" etc! Shud I ask similarly "what about MF husain painting nude hindu godesses? And now leftists r thinking to award him with Raja Ravi Varma Award?", "why doesn't congress addressed bangladehi problems.....did u even read my concerned post about this?", "what about the destruction of temples by mughals? Why doesn't the party gives speeches on this?", "Why didn't the congress say anything when the only krishna temple in pakistan was destroyed?".....there is a lot more to say! These things hold the same weight as the ayodhya issue!

So think again, think a little broadmindedly and read to whom I was replying before u dropped in in a childish manner and thought I was taking sides with BJP!!

mediator said:
'B' gives him cons of OS1 and pros of OS2 to stop his rants.

'
You r repeating the same thing , what if i hav to diagree in the 'pros' tat u gave to stop 'A' rants,wt shud i do,i hav to disagree isn't??.Or r u saying inorder to stop his rants use anything(close our eyes)..HUH.This shows how childish you are.To stop an evil use another evil is tat ur principle then i dont hav much to say.

mediator said:
So think again, think a little broadmindedly and read to whom I was replying before u dropped in in a childish manner and thought I was taking sides with BJP!!

Same bad things happens in both congress n in bjp era and u r clearly taking sides of bjp,so i quoted u at 206, n not by reading single post of urs or his.

196 "As far BJP is concerned, the country had the max. piece in that era of Vajpayee. They did more good to this country in 5 years than congress destroyed the country in their 50+ yrs of rule. In BJP's time we didn't see so much misery that we see now.""

203 "Why didn't we witness so much misery in BJP's era?"

is this taking sides or what? Now who is childish here??

Now try to understand this post carefully and slowly, its written in simplest english!

You r repeating the same thing , what if i hav to diagree in the 'pros' tat u gave to stop 'A' rants,wt shud i do,i hav to disagree isn't??.Or r u saying inorder to stop his rants use anything(close our eyes)..HUH.This shows how childish you are.To stop an evil use another evil is tat ur principle then i dont hav much to say.

If u have to disagree, then quote it and disagree. Why r u whining n telling that u can do this n that?
And when did I say to use another evil (like bolded)? Quote me and then say, dont hallucinate! Did I support BJP and say its our only hope? Why r u deviating from the discussion?
It seems u ('C') acknowledge that u trolled in our discussion (bet. 'A' n 'B'), but aren't finding a way to get out! How tragic!

Same bad things happens in both congress n in bjp era and u r clearly taking sides of bjp,so i quoted u at 206, n not by reading single post of urs or his.

Shud I repeat the OS story? Or u just don't undertsand plain english? If I go by ur logic/by ur mentality, then to everybody u'll be seen as a congress supporter for not talking anything about congress and constantly bashing BJP!! Is that how ur brain (if any) inferred my posts?

196 "As far BJP is concerned, the country had the max. piece in that era of Vajpayee""

203 "Why didn't we witness so much misery in BJP's era?"

is this taking sides or what? Now who is childish here??

Its my experience that we r suffering "more" in this congress era and for that I have given a lotta points which I don't expect u to go back and read! And I don't like to repeat points for trolls who just like to drop in, can't even infer whats happening, and then thinks that the other person is taking sides!
I wont be surprised if in next post u'll ask for those points again!

So for the last statement of urs, its clearly ur childish troll that is preventing u to see and infer the debate I started and had with another member!

If I wud have been taking sides with BJP, then why did I asked for revolution in the first place? Why didn't I say something like another member that "BJP is our hope"?

Clearly, it seems u fully acknowledge now that u trolled in between thinking I was ranting about BJP and now when I enlightened u about it, about what was happening which u unfortunately cudn't infer becoz of ur troll, u r finding it hard to end ur silly discussions/allegations. Is ur ego hurt?
Don't worry it happens and more u show ur childish behaviour then the more u'll be damaging ur ego automatically! So its better to read like I said from the place u left and then infer what has been happening and then post!

mediator said:
If I go by ur logic/by ur mentality, then to everybody u'll be seen as a congress supporter for not talking anything about congress and bashing BJP

I think u need to go n read 206 its starts with "BJP is no different frm congress",Is tat means congress is better tan bjp by ur/mine logic

mediator said:
it seems u fully acknowledge now that u trolled in between thinking I was ranting about BJP .

To end 'A' rants u wer ranting abt bjp (ur earlier posts) ,which appears more tragic.You need to understand that i cant read ur mind,i can only see wt u have posted earlier,which clearly taking side of bjp how u can deny tat?
And the people who disagrees with u is ranting and trolls..huh,do u ever thought abt ur earlier post's

cyberboy_kerala said:
I think u need to go n read 206 its starts with "BJP is no different frm congress",Is tat means congress is better tan bjp by ur/mine logic

Go back n read #201 and #203

mediator said:
Dude the point im tryna make out here is...all the politicians are same ..I used to be a hardcore supporter BJP was a part of vhp for 2 years
They came into power because of hindutva But did nothin for it..
And thts crazy they started following What they always reffered as pseudo secularism...
They belived in removing reservation completely but did nothing about ..
They only thing matters to them is being in power .And they can bend their ideology according to their needs

Click to expand...

Absolutely, then y do u have such faith in Rahul baba who spent his years in foreign and is ignorant about Indian history and realities and says immature words? Do u like his white skin?

Does that rings some bells?

To end 'A' rants u wer ranting abt bjp (ur earlier posts) ,which appears more tragic.You need to understand that i cant read ur mind,i can only see wt u have posted earlier,which clearly taking sides
And the people who disagrees with u is ranting and trolls..huh,do u ever thought abt ur earlier post's

Did u even read my earlier posts that u so desperately wanna make a full fledged mockery of urself? I acknowledged them about BJP's speeches about bangladeshi immigration etc. Isn't it in national interest? Whats so ranting in this? Isn't it a pros?

What the heck u made me repeat!

Now please I request u to end ur misery. Unfortunately u cudn't read all my replies and only a few ones from which u thought I was taking sides! Lets end it here if u please. I will have no objection to continue, but I don't like to mock anybody like that. Lets continue about revolution and make some intersting points!

T

/me yawns.

@mediator
In the same post 203 second para says abt suffering in congress era, and asking "Why didn't we witness so much misery in BJP's era?", and also says abt peace in bjp rule in an earlier post,but to me suffering is equal, so i denied tat peace was ter in bjp rule in post 206.But who made mockery of this single post is another story.Ends here

Max. peace doesn't mean that the country was at "total" peace. It doesn't mean "everybody" was happy! Its in a relative context.
Neways its better on ur part now!

Well bad news for BJP supporters , BJP lost its Fort , and the loss of BJP will continue in Coming days , certainly will be wiped out from India , So we need to think for other alternatives ......

Revolution will start but from Lower end ,

S

bjp is history... why even bring that up?

______________________________________________

Yamaraj said:
Are you a Bangladeshi?

Aww... you poor thing... I never knew you were looking for a Bangladeshi date

No, I'm not Bangladeshi (sorry

) , but I do know a couple of Bangladeshis that I think I can set you up with.

sadabakwas said:
No, I'm not Bangladeshi (sorry )

Then stop pretending so, and don't post unless you have something positive to contribute.

K

India needs change, people are suffering, a revolution is neccessary, and most indians are on the brink.
*tides.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/india-poised-campaign-by-times-of-india-video/
check out this link for the india poised campaign by TOI, one of the few good things that TOI-let paper has done.
I agree thoroughly. though this vid may have been created for a wierd advertising purpose the message it delivers is noble

S

Yamaraj said:
Then stop pretending so, and don't post unless you have something positive to contribute.

You son of a Bush! YOU stop posting, your posts are freakishly stupid anyway!

@bakwas : Please post something relevant and opposite to the meaning of ur username if u really can instead of flaming fellow members here! This is not a place to show ur skills in abusing others and show how and under what circumstances u were brought up and nourished.

K

Son of bush? that's the stupidest, laziest and weirdest insult i have ever seen someone use

yes we need a revolution and yes we definitely need better rulers, but dont be so cynical, its starting to happen. The only way to better leaders is through education. there is no point in goin after the present day voters,they have a fixed mindset which is often illogical, go after the kids, the 10 year olds, the 18 yr olds which are gonna vote for the first time- they need to be encouraged to break the shackles of society and think. that is slowly happening. essentially we need better teachers and better textbooks, we need people who teach cuz they want to and not because of money. the textbooks have already had some changes, but more is needed. So have hope, India is changing we just need to give it time.
But we cannot just sit on our asses and say yaar 20 yrs ke bad sabh kuch theek ho jayga.
though the change will take time, we need to carry the change through that time.

S

^ and you are the stupidest, laziest and weirdest person i've ever come across.

...aur mediator ke bare me kuch nahi kaha jana hi uski jeet hai, bechara!

sadabakwas said:
You son of a Bush! YOU stop posting, your posts are freakishly stupid anyway!

Last time I checked, I was still an offspring of my own parents. But you're probably not familiar with the concept of a typical Indian family. Tell me, were you thrown out abandoned on streets by your father, when your mother ran away with a lesser man?

Reported your post. Next time, be polite and don't post in this thread if you so dislike it.

Go away.

K

nice comeback dude. btw- how old are you?

I am 25, sire!

S

Yamaraj said:
Last time I checked, I was still an offspring of my own parents. But you're probably not familiar with the concept of a typical Indian family. Tell me, were you thrown out abandoned on streets by your father, when your mother ran away with a lesser man?

Exactly the kind of post I've come to expect from you. ^ ^ ^

Yamaraj said:
Go away.

Bache, apni auqad me reh!

sadabakwas said:
Bache, apni auqad me reh!

Wow! I'm suddenly so afraid of you now. Can someone help me please?

If I were to start a revolution today, you would be the first victim of it.

^ LOL

hai wt happend to thunderbird.117 ??

S

Yamaraj said:
If I were to start a revolution today, you would be the first victim of it.

Of course, what else would you want a revolution for? Sara bakwas isi par aake rukta hai. Apne dushmano se ladne ka koi aur tarika nahi mila tujhe?

Ooo, I have enemies, let me start a revolution and kill them all! Besharam kahinka!

K

a revolution does not have to be violent. What do you mean the kind of post you came to expect from him? if you mean a rational, logical train of thought, shouldnt you expect that from everyone? or are you so blinded by your own stupidity that you expect the same from everyone else?. if yes then please refrain from posting in this forum. as they say "birds of a feather stick together"

sadabakwas said:
Besharam kahinka!

Oooh! That was so feminine. Allow me to apologize, fraulein, if you're one.

karmanya said:
yes we need a revolution and yes we definitely need better rulers, but dont be so cynical, its starting to happen. The only way to better leaders is through education. there is no point in goin after the present day voters,they have a fixed mindset which is often illogical, go after the kids, the 10 year olds, the 18 yr olds which are gonna vote for the first time- they need to be encouraged to break the shackles of society and think. that is slowly happening. essentially we need better teachers and better textbooks, we need people who teach cuz they want to and not because of money. the textbooks have already had some changes, but more is needed. So have hope, India is changing we just need to give it time.
But we cannot just sit on our asses and say yaar 20 yrs ke bad sabh kuch theek ho jayga.
though the change will take time, we need to carry the change through that time.

When I start thinking of our socio-political structure, and the so-called "democracy", nothing but filth comes to my mind. Do you really happen to believe that voting alone can curb the problems we're going through? Do the politicians really have the will to straighten the issues out? Or, are they busy creating problems themselves?

Do you seriously think that people like Sonia, Modi, Arjun, Togadia or Powar can make this country stronger and powerful within? I disagree, for all I see is this country being divided in sections and ruled by powerful and corrupt politicians. They have effectively divided us for their benefits, power and money.

Ordinary men and women don't even think about the issues, as their own problems and joys consume their little lives. But, at least some of us have to do the thinking and act on those. Otherwise, this motherland of ours will join the band of failed states like our neighbours.

The so-called economic development is nothing more than a hype, created by some with the aid of the US. Their goal is to attract investors to counter the pace of development of China. It's in the interest of US to keep the balance of power intact in South Asia, and China becoming a military and economic superpower without a threat is unacceptable to the Amrikaans.

What's your take on the issue?

K

I am sorry if i did not make myself clear- our current leaders are a pile of dog ****. discounting a few like Kalam, they do nothing for the good of the people, they say india is the next superpower- but what superpower? which superpower has atleast 40% of wasted human resources only because they are close to illiterate. A revolution needs to begin- the revolution of education, if we educate the so called youth- the 10-18 yr olds; we need to create better politicians and not just crooks, who will slowly bleed us dry. i mean after a debate in our school (there were 14 debators and around 120 people as an audience)the members of our debating council asked a general question of who wants to become a politician- only 1 person raised his hand.
though i agree with you partially i would say it is in the intrest of the US to keep the Power struggle alive in all of asia. it knows that no south asian country can take it on its own. The US has become comfortable as the only superopower, it doesn't want anyone to be able to compete against it. so it always tries to create turmoil among the countries of the world

M

Yeah , India needs one . There have been revolutions every day of the week except for wednesday . So wat are u guys doing this coming wednesday .

Came to this thread from here *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=933778. Cudn't resist from posting . CIAO

No, I like the things they are coz I am gonna runaway from this country anyways

. This country is just sick.

i think we need a revolution. because it is necessary for us. today whereever you go in india there is corruption, crime and the government is all bakwaas. in my view there should be some educational criteria for a person who wants to be a minister also age restriction are also must. and another point which is very important is that there should not be any criminal in politics.

todays politics is very bad. everybody is thinking for power and after the power there is money.
i desparately thinks that we need a severe revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A year old thread guys.

I dont even care about anything , unless any disturbance

Sorry ,guys ,but we need revolution for ourselves .

First stop throwing things/dirt outside to keep your homes clean.its hurts ,but very true .make sure to keep your city Clean .Stop being a dumb ass and don't say it's not my job ,somebody else is .

Make sure to pay fine to govt if eg traffic challan ,no bribe whatsoever .thats will help .

First ,obey law ,then blame others .

and many more things .

one thing more ::"GOVT is a reflection of country's people "