FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Govt jobs

IT is fun...its shortcut, its money, its Black Tshirt and Denim Jeans.. FastTrack on Fridays, Cool Laptops...Beautiful Ladies...spicy street food...pizza/beer, hell lot friends and Moulin Rouge on any occassion.

Also...

:twisted:

IT has recession, IT has 24X7 continuos stretch, IT has escalations...deadlines, clients , Code fails and above all managers.

Weekends in IT can come down dripping with the lunar shadow in your vodka glass, fly away with blue smoke outta a party hall....

OR

It can come down like thunderbolts in your PC monitor.... a cold lonely night in a 13th floor cubicle..... and fly by while you brush your red eyes staring at the five thousand line code you wrote with a missing comma in a notepad.

For a start...this guide is for freshers only who are about the live their dreams soon, i can help a bit to avoid the dream to become nightmare....Shoot out whatever you wish to know about IT life...I'll try within my limits to help.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

IT is fun...its shortcut, its money, its Black Tshirt and Denim Jeans.. FastTrack on Fridays, Cool Laptops...Beautiful Ladies...spicy street food...pizza/beer, hell lot friends and Moulin Rouge on any occassion.

you forgot to add that this is true only for a minority(say less than 10%) & requires coding skills which makes you stand out in the crowd or some serious people networking skills along with above average coding skills.

source:experience of friends working in IT.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ NO

Moving Up in IT is 10% code or less, and 90-99% Knowing ur Job and getting it done the smartest, shortest and safest way possible. Freshers in testing/Support or Cross functional CRM/SAP platforms DO NOT CODE.... They must be reflexive, fast responsive, compliant and dedicated.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

~~care to explain in a bit detailed manner.~~that's why i add people networking skills.i have read many stories about backstabbing/credit stealing etc where those who don't deserve still get the best out of assignments.
everyone i ever met(& i have met many) was willing to left IT for any govt. group B service or lucrative group C service like custom excise inspector including those earning 50000+ & some few weeks assignment abroad.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ Agreed.

@whitestar_999
I have been working in Software Development for last 5 years, so my word is the proof. Not from my friends who working in IT.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

People Networkign is not part of coding if that what you are asking. People management starts from the very day u joined ur first company. And credit stealing? that starts from school. Of course people will move out if IT with more lucrative opportunities, and IT will be doomed one day, but that does not stop a billion peopulation country from Joining IT industry.

furious_gamer said:
^^ Agreed.

@whitestar_999
I have been working in Software Development for last 5 years, so my word is the proof. Not from my friends who working in IT.

Furious, you and I both the hard truth about IT , dont we? But can we afford to discourage Freshers with those right from start or should we try to be a little more optimistic, I currently am leading a big project component and i do know that people transmigrating from other platforms such as core electronics or telecom will eventually get sick and tired of the routine and will move on. But see around, their places will be filled up with hundred more enthusiasts on next few months...even I will move out from IT but...that never justfies discouragement.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

i am just saying that IT is not such a lucrative opportunity for many.e.g.i am assuming that any decent IT employee will have above average quantitative & english comprehension skills.with this coupled with a bit of preparation(much less than for IIM) one can easily clear SSC CGL exam & get a much better post.now if a person has the choice of joining IT or clear CGL exam with decent rank with a little additional effort then IT doesn't stand a chance.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

sam_738844 said:
Furious, you and I both the hard truth about IT , dont we? But can we afford to discourage Freshers with those right from start or should we try to be a little more optimistic, I currently am leading a big project component and i do know that people transmigrating from other platforms such as core electronics or telecom will eventually get sick and tired of the routine and will move on. But see around, their places will be filled up with hundred more enthusiasts on next few months...even I will move out from IT but...that never justfies discouragement.

Dude, where is the discouraging part? It was not my intention and i believe whatever i wrote is not meant to discourage freshers.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@whitestar... with due respect ....Your perspective is shallow....let me ask you, out of hundreds of engineering colleges and thousands of emerging CSE/IT pass-outs, how many of them truly realize or can afford to realize that cracking Public Sector/ Competitive exams are not cake walks? They spent the most serious part of their career in some private engg college struggling for 4 years with more than 40 different subject....amongst which many are rendered uselss in any modern industry....and that too against paying a humongous amount of money! Can they afford to think anything outside IT as its still the most shortest way to get appointed?

Secondly, if a XYZ person who is credibly strong in comprehension, quanti and has decent prepation on generic fields such as GK and also knows computers...why would he care to join IT in the first place if IT is not that lucrative ?, why he has to first join IT and then switch to CGL SSC or core? If someone is that good and thinks that a PS/Bank/LIC/BARC/DRDO/SSC/PSC/RAIL/ISRO/HAL even EIL/ONGC and Fortune 500 or Navaratna Organisations are waiting for him only, why on earth he's perception would lean towards IT first. IT is made for everyone, IT is open to all, we all know that studens in BIOTECH, Food TEch, Mechanical, Civil, Any non-it field can have ample chance to use their intellect and skills to flourish in IT, hence the term Shortcut.

IT lets you be-in-tech and earn in shortest time and with minimal efforts....and so gives you the foundation to be something else you ought to be....IT never drags anyone into it...people are dragged into it by its nature...

@furious..it sounded so...anyway apologies if offended.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@sam - that's ok dude.

It all depends of people's perception towards IT. People think IT as status symbol. Having a own business is less valued than a guy working in big IT company, in my place. So it all boils down to people's mind. They don't even care about other aspects and want to secure a job, settle down, get married, save money in bank and die in peace. All they want is steady pay every month. They are not ready to tale any risk even if that can be potentially make them a millionaire. Settled down in one ugly word i hate to hear, and i hate to see people see other profession's(apart from IT) with disrespect. Yes, when i say i am doing business and getting some good money, they look like, you are not s/w guy, then why did you do B.Tech in IT ? I mean WTF!!!.

Even people who want to take a risk in life will be demotivated by these people and started going to IT jobs, for me as example.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@sam_738844,just like you know about IT i know about govt.services.ISRO,BARC & DRDO are specialized institutes which covers a very limited % of engg. graduates.bank PO job is worst public sector job(note it is not govt job because a govt job means directly working under govt. of india which means jobs in PSU's like ntpc & banks except RBI are not govt. jobs).jobs in Insurance companies like LIC etc are also not better than in IT for most of the times.now take a look at SSC CGL 2012 exam papers & cutoff(which in reserve categories is as low as ~280 for interview posts out of 600).these papers don't even come close to levels of various MBA exams & its english paper(consisting of 250 marks in total) actually has questions which involves active-passive & direct-indirect speech conversions of 10th class level.anyone with a decent knowledge of maths & english & with right preparation can crack SSC CGL exam.in fact i would say something like you said but more accurate:anyone who with some extra effort can't even score ~320 marks in SSC CGL exam has little chances of leading a comfortable & good life in IT sector.

P.S.i have friends/know people working in bank PO as well as Insurance & yes they were the ones who told me about their hardships without me asking.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ agreed that you have clear idea about Govt Jobs, but you forgot something... the basic purpose of education and categorizing it....you have to think of everyone man....On one hand you are telling about LIC/PO are not good enough compared to IT and there are instances of SSC CGL being easy-to-crack. Now think about all those general science graudates or people from commerse background or may be arts and so....they are substancially great in number...and we cant ignore the truth that in india, they are considered less eligible in terms of Degree if we compare them with B.Techs.

As you might know B.Tech is equivalent to any Master Degree scale in general Science. Now it never in scale of merit and talent, justifies that a ordinary B.Tech is fairer than M.S.C or Honors Graduate...but its the majority of pupils (where there are many are really backward) are measured like that and its also a burning question that, if all IT or Btech Graduate starts to veer for SSC, where all those General Science graduates who are not so forward in talent...would go? ( the basic reason the SSC/PSC/CSC exams are less merit seeking than raw quantitive)

Its an unwritten rule that being an B.Tech, you are overqualified for the post. You will be given less priority when sitting for those exams and also in interview...and also know that even in P.O/LIC and other PSU...will be asking very carefully designed questions about the very purpose of your so called "Engineering" degree when you will try to justify that you are also good in General Science and can compete. Its not the point that you can not, its point of "why".

Example : Me...Andhra Bank P.O interview...2009 March. 26 questions were asked, amongst them 14 led to same notion as to "Whey the hell are you here for if you did B.Tech in com Science?" "and whats the gurantee that you will not leave this bank as soon as the recession gets over?". Its not surprising...its reality.

furious_gamer said:
@sam - that's ok dude.

It all depends of people's perception towards IT. People think IT as status symbol. Having a own business is less valued than a guy working in big IT company, in my place. So it all boils down to people's mind. They don't even care about other aspects and want to secure a job, settle down, get married, save money in bank and die in peace. All they want is steady pay every month. They are not ready to tale any risk even if that can be potentially make them a millionaire. Settled down in one ugly word i hate to hear, and i hate to see people see other profession's(apart from IT) with disrespect. Yes, when i say i am doing business and getting some good money, they look like, you are not s/w guy, then why did you do B.Tech in IT ? I mean WTF!!!.

Even people who want to take a risk in life will be demotivated by these people and started going to IT jobs, for me as example.

@furious...true about perception... i also despise people who underestimate non-IT jobs and persuasions....even my manager is from Physics Hns...there is no point. About aspirations....we can not assume on the risk one possibly can think of taking where there lies possibilities of failing...where the majority (again) is appearing from mid class families with financial encumbrance and has loans to pay....and where there are not much millionairs around to motivate or teach how to take that risk.

So a steady income, good night sleep, smile in the face of parents and a robust savings account is a very very obvious things to start career with. Almost all would agree to that, besides, there is no end to ambition or aspirations ....minds, when growing up can cook up immense possibilities of one to become more and more successful...... and IT has never ever denied to that,

we all know of the stalwarts and legends of today's tech world and their sucess stories, no one is stopping no one to achieve such greatness. It can always happen. And doing business after studying IT is actually the path to excel, there will always be stupid people who would comment for the sake of it.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ Not always gonna help. For me i don't want steady income, good night sleep. I want something better. Want to do something so even my grand children have no issue financially and want to spend some quality time with my family whenever i want to, which is not happening because of hectic work in my company.

G

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

So where is the FAQ as title says? Stay on topic and don't turn it into another IT jobs bashing thread.

Every sector has its share of advantage and disadvantages.Its all about
tight choice at right time.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

Exactly my point...its you..not all that can think with same alignment...however i think this thread is becoming more like 99999 reasons to hate IT jobs rather than help to freshers with tips...

no offense.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

gopi_vbboy said:
So where is the FAQ as title says? Stay on topic and don't turn it into another IT jobs bashing thread.

Every sector has its share of advantage and disadvantages.Its all about
tight choice at right time.

OP clearly mentioned, if freshers have any questions, they can post here,and we will help. So i guess we have to wait till some fresher post here. If you feel the posts are not relevant you are welcome to remove those posts.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

gopi_vbboy said:
So where is the FAQ as title says? Stay on topic and don't turn it into another IT jobs bashing thread.

Every sector has its share of advantage and disadvantages.Its all about
tight choice at right time.

Thanks gopi...this thread is open to all, whenever i see questions, i will answer...it was more like a healthy discussion to start with.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

gopi_vbboy said:
So where is the FAQ as title says? Stay on topic and don't turn it into another IT jobs bashing thread.

Every sector has its share of advantage and disadvantages.Its all about
tight choice at right time.

i disagree & think some of my posts can be considered as FAQ.e.g.if you are a decent B.Tech graduate having above average english skill then you would be missing an excellent opportunity of getting a good govt. job if you only decide to join IT just for the sake of job & salary & have no passion/dream for it(such people are significant in number).

@sam_738844,SSC jobs are on a different level than bank PO jobs & no one in interview will hold it against you if you are a B.tech.hell i know IIT graduates taking up SSC jobs as an alternative for UPSC civil services(which already is dominated by engg. graduates).

P.S. for many people its not all about money but also authority.a person working in IT sector earning 50000+ commented(on another forum) after clearing SSC CGL & getting group B custom excise service on why he is leaving his job which pays so much & will only increase in future:

there are ~50000 IT professionals in/around bangalore but only ~4000 custom inspectors in whole India.let's see how many people are willing to misbehave with you/your family members when you are a custom inspector compared to when you are an IT professional

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

whitestar_999 said:
@sam_738844,just like you know about IT i know about govt.services.ISRO,BARC & DRDO are specialized institutes which covers a very limited % of engg. graduates.bank PO job is worst public sector job(note it is not govt job because a govt job means directly working under govt. of india which means jobs in PSU's like ntpc & banks except RBI are not govt. jobs).jobs in Insurance companies like LIC etc are also not better than in IT for most of the times.now take a look at SSC CGL 2012 exam papers & cutoff(which in reserve categories is as low as ~280 for interview posts out of 600).these papers don't even come close to levels of various MBA exams & its english paper(consisting of 250 marks in total) actually has questions which involves active-passive & direct-indirect speech conversions of 10th class level.anyone with a decent knowledge of maths & english & with right preparation can crack SSC CGL exam.in fact i would say something like you said but more accurate:anyone who with some extra effort can't even score ~320 marks in SSC CGL exam has little chances of leading a comfortable & good life in IT sector.

P.S.i have friends/know people working in bank PO as well as Insurance & yes they were the ones who told me about their hardships without me asking.

Are you sure a score of 320 is good enough to get any sort of post at all? I'm not talking about reserved quota as most of us belong to General. I have heard that a minimum of atleast 420-430 is required to qualify and that for most of the good posts score above 450 is needed. Now that kind of score is certainly by no means easy to get considering the level of competition. Can you please clear the confusion?

@All, since many of you already experienced in IT sector, I am asking you a question. I have been waiting for almost 9 months for my joining letter from CTS. At this point as you would expect I have completely lost touch with studies and have forgotten everything that I studied during those 4 years. Will this be a problem on joining?

I understand Sam is trying to be optimistic and give encouragement to freshers to look forward to the IT world. But from what I am hearing from my friends who have already joined, they aren't exactly enjoying their time at the job. Having to work weekends and late hours can kill that enjoyment faster than anything.

Its an unwritten rule that being an B.Tech, you are overqualified for the post. You will be given less priority when sitting for those exams and also in interview...and also know that even in P.O/LIC and other PSU...will be asking very carefully designed questions about the very purpose of your so called "Engineering" degree when you will try to justify that you are also good in General Science and can compete. Its not the point that you can not, its point of "why".

Example : Me...Andhra Bank P.O interview...2009 March. 26 questions were asked, amongst them 14 led to same notion as to "Whey the hell are you here for if you did B.Tech in com Science?" "and whats the gurantee that you will not leave this bank as soon as the recession gets over?". Its not surprising...its reality.

Why would a BTech be more overqualified that say a MSc grad? My cousin sister is a MA grad and I don't consider myself superior to her. Banks while giving jobs can't automatically assume that every BTech grad only wants a career in the IT field. Some of us actually want a career in the banking sector. Many of us started doing BTech with one goal in mind but during the course of those 4 years, those goals are bound to change, our perspectives are bound to change as well, right? Its not all about landing a 50k/month job for everyone. The authority, stability and prestige that comes with even a 20k/month govt is worth more to many people.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@nginx,as per cutoff list available on SSC website for CGL 2012 the cutoff for general category for Inspector(central excise) in Karnataka region is 378.25 & for assistant in CSS(central secretariat service,delhi) is 382.25 & these marks include interview marks(out of 100) so assuming a score of ~50 in interview(which any decent interview will get) written marks required for general category candidates is ~328.25 & 332.25 respectively.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ above is completely correct.

nginx said:
Are you sure a score of 320 is good enough to get any sort of post at all? I'm not talking about reserved quota as most of us belong to General. I have heard that a minimum of atleast 420-430 is required to qualify and that for most of the good posts score above 450 is needed. Now that kind of score is certainly by no means easy to get considering the level of competition. Can you please clear the confusion?

@All, since many of you already experienced in IT sector, I am asking you a question. I have been waiting for almost 9 months for my joining letter from CTS. At this point as you would expect I have completely lost touch with studies and have forgotten everything that I studied during those 4 years. Will this be a problem on joining?

I understand Sam is trying to be optimistic and give encouragement to freshers to look forward to the IT world. But from what I am hearing from my friends who have already joined, they aren't exactly enjoying their time at the job. Having to work weekends and late hours can kill that enjoyment faster than anything.

Why would a BTech be more overqualified that say a MSc grad? My cousin sister is a MA grad and I don't consider myself superior to her. Banks while giving jobs can't automatically assume that every BTech grad only wants a career in the IT field. Some of us actually want a career in the banking sector. Many of us started doing BTech with one goal in mind but during the course of those 4 years, those goals are bound to change, our perspectives are bound to change as well, right? Its not all about landing a 50k/month job for everyone. The authority, stability and prestige that comes with even a 20k/month govt is worth more to many people.

Buddy, you must not think from your end, get the picture from the Employer's side. Employement rules and regulations in India are constitued on the favor of the employer not the employee given the liberty to the employee to change his/her employer after a certain period of time and upon expiry of Bond....which is again is made by the companies to favor themselves.

Now think of you as an employer...you run a Bank, and you take 3 very eligible IT students as your employee. As i said very eligible, the frame of reference is on employer's side so, you must see as how those 3 guys will make your buisness better, earn bank more revenue after FY end and how reliable,loyal and profit friendly their overall structures are.

Now shift the reference to students end. They are eligible no doubt. They are good in coding, logical reasoning, expert in technical background. Is it very abnormal for them to think that "this banks have very limited old softwares, upgrades and systems which are only subject to maintenance and thus deprives of our food for thought, more insight into machines and technology day by day" ??

and they decide to leave and join some yahoo or adobe? What will happen to your FY margin if you lose 3 of ur valuable employees just because you have no bonds and they are IT? forget FY, what will happen to you when you'll face questions to even your boss that "u cant keep 3 people?!...ur doomed." and the waterfall begins..?

U must be now getting picture why IT companies have bonds, why banks are reluctant to take B techs except IT officer.

@nginx...you have your offer letter from CTS right, ( not joining letter and bond paper). Dont worry. I had waited 1.5 years of long recession hit dark days...to have my joining letter. 1.5 years!!! think about it i lost to recession which could easily beefed up my career now to at least at manager level. When the letter came from my employer, i had tried anything and everything from PSU to school to bank rail even CBI and WBSEB BSNL and clerkship!!., lost all hope about my employer and my career..then it arrived and i joined reluctantly...later i got letters from some banks, PSU's of which results finally were out, but by then i had completed my training, so never looked back after that. Your employer is not notorious about such things...have high hope...the grasps of economic downswing is far off now....

but just because am telling you "dont worry u'll make too many frnds with whom u'll pass the training in CTS together with no problems" means that it will be easy...get in touch with tech...and get very serious after you join

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

whitestar_999 said:
@nginx,as per cutoff list available on SSC website for CGL 2012 the cutoff for general category for Inspector(central excise) in Karnataka region is 378.25 & for assistant in CSS(central secretariat service,delhi) is 382.25 & these marks include interview marks(out of 100) so assuming a score of ~50 in interview(which any decent interview will get) written marks required for general category candidates is ~328.25 & 332.25 respectively.

Does state preference come into play while deciding cut off? For example, during form fill up I mentioned every state in India as I don't mind where I get posting but I gave first preference to West Bengal, my hometown and then a few other northern states like Assam, HP etc., after that I put Delhi in 5th place. Does that mean I'll have a harder time getting a post even if I quality because of those obscure state selections?

sam_738844 said:
^^ above is completely correct.

Buddy, you must not think from your end, get the picture from the Employer's side. Employement rules and regulations in India are constitued on the favor of the employer not the employee given the liberty to the employee to change his/her employer after a certain period of time and upon expiry of Bond....which is again is made by the companies to favor themselves.

Now think of you as an employer...you run a Bank, and you take 3 very eligible IT students as your employee. As i said very eligible, the frame of reference is on employer's side so, you must see as how those 3 guys will make your buisness better, earn bank more revenue after FY end and how reliable,loyal and profit friendly their overall structures are.

Now shift the reference to students end. They are eligible no doubt. They are good in coding, logical reasoning, expert in technical background. Is it very abnormal for them to think that "this banks have very limited old softwares, upgrades and systems which are only subject to maintenance and thus deprives of our food for thought, more insight into machines and technology day by day" ??

and they decide to leave and join some yahoo or adobe? What will happen to your FY margin if you lose 3 of ur valuable employees just because you have no bonds and they are IT? forget FY, what will happen to you when you'll face questions to even your boss that "u cant keep 3 people?!...ur doomed." and the waterfall begins..?

U must be now getting picture why IT companies have bonds, why banks are reluctant to take B techs except IT officer.

@nginx...you have your offer letter from CTS right, ( not joining letter and bond paper). Dont worry. I had waited 1.5 years of long recession hit dark days...to have my joining letter. 1.5 years!!! think about it i lost to recession which could easily beefed up my career now to at least at manager level. When the letter came from my employer, i had tried anything and everything from PSU to school to bank rail even CBI and WBSEB BSNL and clerkship!!., lost all hope about my employer and my career..then it arrived and i joined reluctantly...later i got letters from some banks, PSU's of which results finally were out, but by then i had completed my training, so never looked back after that. Your employer is not notorious about such things...have high hope...the grasps of economic downswing is far off now....

but just because am telling you "dont worry u'll make too many frnds with whom u'll pass the training in CTS together with no problems" means that it will be easy...get in touch with tech...and get very serious after you join

Thanks for your valuable insights Sam. I am in the boat now as you were. You waited for 1.5 years and I am pretty sure I'll have to wait that long too despite it being not recession now. But I am not too worried about that. I am trying elsewhere but as you have already experienced, competition is very high even for those clerical post that no engineer wants.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@nginx,all depends on your preference order & no. of seats in a particular state.download the CGL2012 cutoff marks list from here:
*ssc.nic.in/press-release/Website_writeup.pdf
it has all the details like min/max marks of a candidate in a particular category for a particular region & no.of vacancies(available & filled).analyse this list & then decide your order of preference.like i said earlier Inspector(central excise) in Karnataka region has a low cutoff & not even all general categories vacancies are even filled.some services like CSS(99% Delhi posting),PO(prevention officer,~11 fixed coastal cities)),Inspector Examiner(again same as preventive officer,coastal cities only like chennai,mumbai etc),assistant IB(all over India) etc have no state preference because posting is fixed/decided by respective department so your state preference will not matter.for all other services state preference will be considered & as long as you clear the cutoff for a particular service in a particular state you will be selected.only if you can't clear cutoff for any state in a particular service then only you will be considered for the next service in your preference order & so on.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

whitestar_999 said:
i disagree & think some of my posts can be considered as FAQ.e.g.if you are a decent B.Tech graduate having above average english skill then you would be missing an excellent opportunity of getting a good govt. job if you only decide to join IT just for the sake of job & salary & have no passion/dream for it(such people are significant in number).

@sam_738844,SSC jobs are on a different level than bank PO jobs & no one in interview will hold it against you if you are a B.tech.hell i know IIT graduates taking up SSC jobs as an alternative for UPSC civil services(which already is dominated by engg. graduates).

P.S. for many people its not all about money but also authority.a person working in IT sector earning 50000+ commented(on another forum) after clearing SSC CGL & getting group B custom excise service on why he is leaving his job which pays so much & will only increase in future:

Whitestar... one doesnt have to be an B.tech with comm skills and so to miss such opportunities....there are other lines of studies which encourages specifically govt services, such as Economics, Commerce, Pol Science, Mathematics, Statistics and many more Post Graduate, Diploma, PHD and furthermore research specific courses...which proves to be in great alignment with Indian Administration and Constituitional/Civil Services...

These paths are equally lucrative..with scope of Authoritative and Administrative even legislative exposure. But that does not mean that people are joining these services just for the sake of greed and power...just as to people are joining IT NOT just for some fancy words like salary and all....and if its really a talk about money....how many scams are their from IT? compared to involvements in scams from So called Govt Organizations..? I can statistically show 20+ IAS officers highly qualified in education grounds in central Govt orga..corrupted. right from my hometown...thats diff issue....also where in PSUs are such immediate and blue-chip onshore offers?? the ones that are there requires extraordinary merits...

Get down from dreams to hard grounds of reality, being an IIT passout and teaching poor students after SSC is always good, but it does not imply that an IT Btech will aim for PSC/UPSC only because he has to prove that he's not missing some opportunities. As Gopi suggested...stop bashing IT for "why IT BTECHS in India Should NOT DO IT JOBS" and very irrational notions like these.

Also ur custom inspector analogy, you should have grown by now to know that respect and authority comes from deeds and are not fruits of a designation and fear. I used to live in a PG who's owner was an IAS in PF office in SALT LAKE, and we used to talk eye-to-eye....there is no shame or disrespect of being good at your job unless you know how to keep your backbone straight. I know custom inspectors, banned, sentenced, suspended from society and even faced-off from their own children after allegedly caught of taking bribe. Refrain from using examples of how people should behave with other people and be free from fear in a democratic country...it smells of politics.

Enough Off Topic, If anyone interested in the thread title..please ask away...i'm tired of arguing. If not Mods please close this thread.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

whitestar_999 said:
@nginx,all depends on your preference order & no. of seats in a particular state.download the CGL2012 cutoff marks list from here:
*ssc.nic.in/press-release/Website_writeup.pdf
it has all the details like min/max marks of a candidate in a particular category for a particular region & no.of vacancies(available & filled).analyse this list & then decide your order of preference.like i said earlier Inspector(central excise) in Karnataka region has a low cutoff & not even all general categories vacancies are even filled.some services like CSS(99% Delhi posting),PO(prevention officer,~11 fixed coastal cities)),Inspector Examiner(again same as preventive officer,coastal cities only like chennai,mumbai etc),assistant IB(all over India) etc have no state preference because posting is fixed/decided by respective department so your state preference will not matter.for all other services state preference will be considered & as long as you clear the cutoff for a particular service in a particular state you will be selected.only if you can't clear cutoff for any state in a particular service then only you will be considered for the next service in your preference order & so on.

Thank you so much whitestar for the link and for sharing your knowledge. I was afraid they were gonna give importance to the state preferences and I would lose out due to my unusual preferences. Its all about getting the job first, that is the hard part, I can live with not getting my favorite state.

@Sam, why are you getting angry friend? Whitestar is not here to brainwash anybody, he is just giving his honest opinions. Its good to hear opinion from both sides, that's what makes debates and interactions interesting.

We all there are pros and cons of every job. At the end of the day its down to the individuals what they want to do in life. Both IT and govt jobs are highly prestigious, so nobody will look upon anyone for doing either job.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ good hear from you that you have transparent views too...am not angry or anything..at my current professional position i can not afford to be, I'm just oversaturated by arguements

and caring about the relevance of the thread.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@sam_738844,i don't know how much you are exposed to REAL INDIA & such but let me tell you one thing.i agree there are honest persons in any service but you do not want to ruffle wrong feathers of a class I or class II officer as i can assure you no matter where you are in India unless you have strong connections you won't even know what hit you.

those other lines you are talking about(maths,stats,Phd seriously!) you are the 1st person i ever met giving a suggestion of pursuing such streams after doing an engg./graduation degree if the aim is govt.service & also just so you know the public administration & geography are the most preferred subjects of candidates with engg.background in civil services & also among the most successful ones.the no.of candidates clearing civil services with maths,physics,engineering & stats are mostly in single digit & even considering subjects like commerce,management etc don't even come close to these 2 subjects.

it is you who lives in dreams not me.if you think a majority of people join UPSC/SSC/state services to serve country then you need to get a reality check.just look up India's score in transparency international reports or the HDI index.the day even 50% of the officers from these services actually started serving the nation like they are meant to do India will left china behind in economic progress.i know sometimes corrupt officers got caught but rest assured they are & for the foreseeable future will always be in minority.India is a token democracy for all practical purposes & being impractical here can be very harmful to your health here.

P.S.btw you talk about IPS officer so just search these in google if you don't already know to get an idea:Shambhu Pratap Singh Rathore,Priyadarshini Mattoo,Bidya Bhushan Mohanty & these are just the famous/known ones.like i said you don't want to ruffle wrong feathers of a not morally correct class I/II officers.also it seems like you have spent most part of your life in "modern/civilized" parts of India but i have spent many years in so called "bad lands" of UP so take my suggestion/words at face value because i have seen many things.one thing i do like to mention here though is once i come across the case of an IT employee working 50000/month pleading for some help in a fraud case registered against him by an inspector(no comparison to an IPS officer) in some family/property dispute & he was willing to spend any amount after pleading just to get his name cleared.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@All

This thread consists of off-topic posts(which i too contribute

), so from now on, it is better to keep on-topic. Will report mod to clean thread, or change title name according to the debate. It's OPs call.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@furious_gamer,i am not sure these posts are off-topic.we are talking about career here not some political/other debate.if after reading this someone decide to join/try for govt.service instead of joining/continue in IT then i would say this thread has achieved its purpose.if this were a thread to promote IT then these posts would be off-topic here but the title is "FAQ & help" & FAQ does not always contain what you wish for.e.g.
Q.can this software do this in free version mode?
A.no it can't because we need money for support & if we provide all features in free version what is the point of having a paid version & that's the hard truth of life.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

^^ That's why i said, OP can also change thread title a bit so it makes sense. Because in title he mentioned IT/Telecom.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@furious_gamer please don't ask mods to clean anything. There are some valuable information in this thread. People sharing their raw experiences about different job profiles are not easily found on the internet. So I consider to be an exciting debate that might help others in future too. While this debate continues, freshers are always welcome to post their queries like I did.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

@nginx : I am not going to report it to mods. It's all in OP's hand, it's his thread and it's upto him to decide.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

why change it?the title as well as posts are suitable here.there is no need to create another IT promoting thread because it is already well know courtesy of TCS/infosys/wipro etc coming to college campuses.it is also not another IT bashing thread because there is a lot of info here regarding govt.services exam like SSC CGL which are no where near the toughness level of UPSC civil services/state civil services but still provide opportunities to get decent/good govt job(central govt.employee status & not those bank PO/insurance jobs which have no benefits compared to a good paying IT job).if after reading this thread someone decide to join/continue IT then it only means his decision is correct because he took it after reading info about alternative opportunities.

@ngnix,don't worry

i never claimed to know about IT sector but i do know about govt services so just ask me & i will point you to lots of resources especially for SSC CGL exam.this thread is merely a pointer.thinkdigit is basically a technology forum & if you really want to discuss govt exams you just have to visit other forums which are specifically for this purpose just like this forum is for technology(focusing PC/laptop mainly).

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

whitestar_999 said:
@sam_738844,i don't know how much you are exposed to REAL INDIA & such but let me tell you one thing.i agree there are honest persons in any service but you do not want to ruffle wrong feathers of a class I or class II officer as i can assure you no matter where you are in India unless you have strong connections you won't even know what hit you.

those other lines you are talking about(maths,stats,Phd seriously!) you are the 1st person i ever met giving a suggestion of pursuing such streams after doing an engg./graduation degree if the aim is govt.service & also just so you know the public administration & geography are the most preferred subjects of candidates with engg.background in civil services & also among the most successful ones.the no.of candidates clearing civil services with maths,physics,engineering & stats are mostly in single digit & even considering subjects like commerce,management etc don't even come close to these 2 subjects.

it is you who lives in dreams not me.if you think a majority of people join UPSC/SSC/state services to serve country then you need to get a reality check.just look up India's score in transparency international reports or the HDI index.the day even 50% of the officers from these services actually started serving the nation like they are meant to do India will left china behind in economic progress.i know sometimes corrupt officers got caught but rest assured they are & for the foreseeable future will always be in minority.India is a token democracy for all practical purposes & being impractical here can be very harmful to your health here.

P.S.btw you talk about IPS officer so just search these in google if you don't already know to get an idea:Shambhu Pratap Singh Rathore,Priyadarshini Mattoo,Bidya Bhushan Mohanty & these are just the famous/known ones.like i said you don't want to ruffle wrong feathers of a not morally correct class I/II officers.also it seems like you have spent most part of your life in "modern/civilized" parts of India but i have spent many years in so called "bad lands" of UP so take my suggestion/words at face value because i have seen many things.one thing i do like to mention here though is once i come across the case of an IT employee working 50000/month pleading for some help in a fraud case registered against him by an inspector(no comparison to an IPS officer) in some family/property dispute & he was willing to spend any amount after pleading just to get his name cleared.

Last Nail in the coffin before mods close this thread off... Whitestar, you will meet me again in some other serious discussion where i would prove your deficiency over real time knowledge...again.

Bold 1 : Go check the IAS curriculum for getting the curtain off your eyes and see how relevant math, science and higher studies are for IAS... i am surprised by the lack most common sense of yours as mathematics being the MOST FUNDAMENTAL subject of all mother streams from day 1 in School!!! dude...seriously? and who told you about "management" !!

Read up

"Even UPSC has chalked out plan where there is no favoritism while evaluation is done. A glance at the results would reveal that no subject is low scoring.

You will find candidates scoring 400+ marks in subjects like Public Administration, Philosophy, and Economics etc. at the same time, you will find many candidates securing marks in two-digit in subjects like Mathematics and Physics.

One thing is clear that if your preparation is good, no subject is low scoring. It is up to the candidates to perform up to examiner’s expectation and score good marks. You need to understand the requirements and if you are aware how the optional subject is dealt with, you will be able to put up a nice show.

As a matter of fact there are certain subjects like Mathematics and Physics which are well-known high scoring subjects. Being objective in nature, Science subjects inherently are known to be marks fetching subjects. But, at the same time these are risky as any mistake/fumble at any stage can cause big damage and can bring down your score drastically low.

In case of humanities subjects, a lot of subjectivity is attached that makes subject comparatively less scoring. In Civil Services Examination, this feature makes your chances relatively secure and if one is not able to put excellent performance, at least average marks can be expected." -- IASPASSION

Bold 2 : EPIC OFF topic, i will try to use lucid English next time. I am utterly disappointed to notice that you are like...a few pacific oceans away from what i meant to tell in my post about people in IT btech and their aspects in NON-IT! HDI?? National Issues??!! My Health ?? MY GOD :facepalm:

Bold 3 : Even all these people you mentioned are giving face-palms standing in a disciplined queue.., do you even realize what i objectively tried to imply in my post???

*sigh* however...i don't think i'll be posting arguments anymore...that would be too silly for me keeping in mind the scope of this thread...

@furious about off topic :thumbs:

@all...debate and discussions are always on the beneficial side of any post....TDF is internationally acclaimed forum and is very liberal and congruent about all aspects of living, inclusive of Career Planning and all...mods in this forum have not created this section just to discuss laptops and graphics cards

....let the posts be where they are... and continue on the topic.

W

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

sam_738844 said:
Last Nail in the coffin before mods close this thread off... Whitestar, you will meet me again in some other serious discussion where i would prove your deficiency over real time knowledge...again.

no i won't.let's just say every human is born with some limits & with age he tries to reach those limits with varying degree of success.i am much farther away from you in this regard & consider it as the end of this discussion.enjoy your stay in Jakarta.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

CHILL buddy...there is no age to learn...

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

If you hate IT keep out of this thread, period :evil:

Now, even I prefer a govt. job over IT, like in a PSU, but you know why? Because there are no work, my friend works in a PSU, he gets 6 LPA, he goes to office at 10:00AM, plays games in mobile or read books, chats with his gf, then gets out at 4:00PM, this is the life we all dream off, no need to work, no fear of losing your job(just as an example, try getting a job done by BSNL SDE, they'll kick you out of the office or ignore you, while taking a 6 lpa package home), don't forget corruption. Of course I'll join customs if that means I can buy a villa in ambi valley at the age of 40 without doing any hard work.

But then comes the question, why IT?

Two reason:
1. To build a resume and then go for a masters and possibly a phd from abroad, foreign colleges won't accept you or give scholarships unless you have either lots of extracurricular cr@p(no idea why they require this, what matters more? The fact I worked in a slum or the fact that I can write a good code?) Or a good resume, i.e work experience, and without these the academic performance they would require would require someone with an IQ of 170+

2. Chance to go abroad on work and live in a country which I will never be able to live in even if I was the president of India. Would a govt. officer would get a chance to live in say Germany?(don't talk about IFS).

I don't plan or staying in IT forever, two things I have in mind, either in the next 3-4 yrs I am going abroad(like sam here :))

, or I'll quit and go abroad for studies.

G

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

whitestar_999 said:
i disagree & think some of my posts can be considered as FAQ.e.g.if you are a decent B.Tech graduate having above average english skill then you would be missing an excellent opportunity of getting a good govt. job if you only decide to join IT just for the sake of job & salary & have no passion/dream for it(such people are significant in number).

As long as you give information about govt jobs , i have no issues

Basically it boils down to personal preferences and priorities in life.

This thread is useful as long as you guys don't fight comparing different sectors which is of no use .
Stay on topic giving information like review,interview experience , etc

Thanks

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

tkin said:
If you hate IT keep out of this thread, period

Now, even I prefer a govt. job over IT, like in a PSU, but you know why? Because there are no work, my friend works in a PSU, he gets 6 LPA, he goes to office at 10:00AM, plays games in mobile or read books, chats with his gf, then gets out at 4:00PM, this is the life we all dream off, no need to work, no fear of losing your job(just as an example, try getting a job done by BSNL SDE, they'll kick you out of the office or ignore you, while taking a 6 lpa package home), don't forget corruption. Of course I'll join customs if that means I can buy a villa in ambi valley at the age of 40 without doing any hard work.

But then comes the question, why IT?

Two reason:
1. To build a resume and then go for a masters and possibly a phd from abroad, foreign colleges won't accept you or give scholarships unless you have either lots of extracurricular cr@p(no idea why they require this, what matters more? The fact I worked in a slum or the fact that I can write a good code?) Or a good resume, i.e work experience, and without these the academic performance they would require would require someone with an IQ of 170+

2. Chance to go abroad on work and live in a country which I will never be able to live in even if I was the president of India. Would a govt. officer would get a chance to live in say Germany?(don't talk about IFS).

I don't plan or staying in IT forever, two things I have in mind, either in the next 3-4 yrs I am going abroad(like sam here , or I'll quit and go abroad for studies.

I think its very shallow to stereotype about government jobs/employees like that. My uncle is a govt employee and he certainly doesn't enjoy such luxury of no work all day and coming home early. It all depends on which department you get and the workload there. That's why Rabindra Bhattacharya was annoyed & resigned when he was removed as Agri minister and transferred over to Stats department where there was no work. He could have easily put his feet up and enjoyed the free time in office but he didn't.

There are many govt departments where you have to work very hard and compared to that IT job is luxury where you can often sit in bench for the better of the year without project. You said you know a friend who does not have to do any job in govt office. I also know a friend who was benched for 1.5 years in a IT company and after that he quit in favor of a govt job because he wanted to do some "actual work" and not just sit around and twiddle his thumbs all day. See how experiences of people vary? I don't think one should look for job with the mentality of not having to work, then he will never succeed in life.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

Mixed views are always there for every topic and in my opinion they're most welcome unless they lead to heated argument.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm enjoying the discussion till now. Therefore, requesting the mods to do nothing

Now on topic, IT, computers, technology or whatever it is, I've been a great enthusiast in this field since class 7th. I was always an example to learn from in this field. (many guys here would have similar history). From that time, to now, when I'm about to complete my computer science engg in a matter of months, I've been the same. But but but, somehow I don't want to be part of this world any more. Reason partly lies in running away from race of cattle herds, and partly due to my loose in interest in some core subjects like ds, ada, toc, and likewise.

Gradually, job security and more importantly social status began to lure me, which eventually pushed me in the world of general competition. I've also filled the form of CGL and honestly I'd leave any IT company (except the elites, which I'm not gonna make anyway, so don't care) if I get qualified. I've not lost the zeal towards my beloved field, but of now, can only christen it as "compromise".

Disclaimer: Above is just my personal POV, and it may differ from person to person.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

nginx said:
A. I think its very shallow to stereotype about government jobs/employees like that. My uncle is a govt employee and he certainly doesn't enjoy such luxury of no work all day and coming home early. It all depends on which department you get and the workload there. That's why Rabindra Bhattacharya was annoyed & resigned when he was removed as Agri minister and transferred over to Stats department where there was no work. He could have easily put his feet up and enjoyed the free time in office but he didn't.

There are many govt departments where you have to work very hard and compared to that IT job is luxury where you can often sit in bench for the better of the year without project. You said you know a friend who does not have to do any job in govt office.
B. I also know a friend who was benched for 1.5 years in a IT company and after that he quit in favor of a govt job because he wanted to do some "actual work" and not just sit around and twiddle his thumbs all day. See how experiences of people vary? I don't think one should look for job with the mentality of not having to work, then he will never succeed in life.

Not shallow, let me remind you:

A. Personal choice, if one wants, like the person you mentioned, he can do work, if he doesn't, he won't have to, my friend falls in second category, he doesn't want to do work, a lot of his colleagues feel the same way, only a fraction don't and they are trying to leave the company,

B. Not a choice, being in bench is not a choice, its by force(well one can choose to sit in bench even if he gets work in IT, but its the same as committing suicide).

So your comparison is henceforth made redundant. Read my original post again, I want to join a PSU so the workload is lighter, no fear of sacking, increments even in times of dire recession.

I never meant to offend a govt. employee, in fact my mother is a BSNL SDE, but she still has to do some work in broadband department, a lot of the other employees there don't do anything, even my mother can't make a line man go to work, he has union, he only goes to work if he wishes to, he is well paid with benefits, once it took my mother 6 days to get a line man to come fix my connection, so that's the beauty of govt. jobs, if you wan't you don't have to do a thing to get paid, and there lies the attraction of govt. jobs, compared to IT, where no hard work will get you kicked out before you can say "Wat?"

dashing.sujay said:
Mixed views are always there for every topic and in my opinion they're most welcome unless they lead to heated argument.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm enjoying the discussion till now. Therefore, requesting the mods to do nothing

Now on topic, IT, computers, technology or whatever it is, I've been a great enthusiast in this field since class 7th. I was always an example to learn from in this field. (many guys here would have similar history). From that time, to now, when I'm about to complete my computer science engg in a matter of months, I've been the same. But but but, somehow I don't want to be part of this world any more. Reason partly lies in running away from race of cattle herds, and partly due to my loose in interest in some core subjects like ds, ada, toc, and likewise.

Gradually, job security and more importantly social status began to lure me, which eventually pushed me in the world of general competition. I've also filled the form of CGL and honestly I'd leave any IT company (except the elites, which I'm not gonna make anyway, so don't care) if I get qualified. I've not lost the zeal towards my beloved field, but of now, can only christen it as "compromise".

Disclaimer: Above is just my personal POV, and it may differ from person to person.

Exactly this. I feel the same now

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

dashing.sujay said:
Mixed views are always there for every topic and in my opinion they're most welcome unless they lead to heated argument.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm enjoying the discussion till now. Therefore, requesting the mods to do nothing

Now on topic, IT, computers, technology or whatever it is, I've been a great enthusiast in this field since class 7th. I was always an example to learn from in this field. (many guys here would have similar history). From that time, to now, when I'm about to complete my computer science engg in a matter of months, I've been the same. But but but, somehow I don't want to be part of this world any more. Reason partly lies in running away from race of cattle herds, and partly due to my loose in interest in some core subjects like ds, ada, toc, and likewise.

Gradually, job security and more importantly social status began to lure me, which eventually pushed me in the world of general competition. I've also filled the form of CGL and honestly I'd leave any IT company (except the elites, which I'm not gonna make anyway, so don't care) if I get qualified. I've not lost the zeal towards my beloved field, but of now, can only christen it as "compromise".

Disclaimer: Above is just my personal POV, and it may differ from person to person.

Have you finished your degree course or not? You cannot appear for this year's CGL exam if you aren't last year's pass-out batch. Only candidates who have passed out before 01.01.2013 are eligible.

On topic, I don't think one needs to be dead set on the type of job right after passing out from college. One can always work for a couple of years in a certain job and then change careers. The experience you gain in any job is always valuable for freshers. Your life won't be over if you don't get your dream job right after passing out of college.

A. Personal choice, if one wants, like the person you mentioned, he can do work, if he doesn't, he won't have to, my friend falls in second category, he doesn't want to do work, a lot of his colleagues feel the same way, only a fraction don't and they are trying to leave the company,

Are you saying that govt employees can choose to not work even when there is actual work? I don't think that's true. If that were true, the govt machinery would simply not function but it does doesn't it?

I want to join a PSU so the workload is lighter, no fear of sacking, increments even in times of dire recession.

There is no hard and fast rule of lighter workload in PSU. Workload varies from department to department. In IT company while workload is high when there is project, its just the opposite when there is no project. So in the end it all balances out.

that's the beauty of govt. jobs, if you wan't you don't have to do a thing to get paid, and there lies the attraction of govt. jobs

If freshers start looking for a job with that mentality, I think they are doomed even before their career has begun. There are lazy slobs among govt employees no doubt but I believe they are in the minority.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

nginx said:
Have you finished your degree course or not? You cannot appear for this year's CGL exam if you aren't last year's pass-out batch. Only candidates who have passed out before 01.01.2013 are eligible.

No, I'm in last sem, but I don't care. A hands on experience will be good.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

bank PO job is worst public sector job(note it is not govt job because a govt job means directly working under govt. of india which means jobs in PSU's like ntpc & banks except RBI are not govt. jobs)

What makes the bank PO job so undesirable among all public sector jobs? I have heard it before as well in other forums but nobody gave a solid reason. Some say its because of the workload but surely that can't be the only reason right? Freshers should be motivated to work hard if the salary is good.

G

Renamed Thread for clarity of discussion

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

nginx said:
What makes the bank PO job so undesirable among all public sector jobs? I have heard it before as well in other forums but nobody gave a solid reason. Some say its because of the workload but surely that can't be the only reason right? Freshers should be motivated to work hard if the salary is good.

The workload is obviously comparatively more, plus it's much stressing. The pay is still low as per the standards. Also, the work culture varies a lot from area to area and bank to bank. Rural areas of north india are most undesirable posting locations, south being best. Even my dad was on the verge of resignation due to pressure. (some personal reason was also involved). Job satisfaction is one of the lowest in banking sector. Increment in salary, more staff, and a better work culture can improve the situation.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

dashing.sujay said:
The workload is obviously comparatively more, plus it's much stressing. The pay is still low as per the standards. Also, the work culture varies a lot from area to area and bank to bank. Rural areas of north india are most undesirable posting locations, south being best. Even my dad was on the verge of resignation due to pressure. (some personal reason was also involved). Job satisfaction is one of the lowest in banking sector. Increment in salary, more staff, and a better work culture can improve the situation.

Well this is not very encouraging for freshers. What do you guys suggest, should we not go for Bank PO exams then?

Good and meaningful discussion actually.

We don't delete these.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

nginx said:
Well this is not very encouraging for freshers. What do you guys suggest, should we not go for Bank PO exams then?

Well, I'd like to say one thing. No one today chooses a job/field on the basis of enthusiasm. Everybody does it due to state of compromise. If you're not willing to go to private sector, then banking sector is probably the easiest to crack IMO. The enrollments will last for an year or max two.

W

for those still interested in bank PO jobs here is a link which provide an analysis about IBPS common PO exam results:
IBPS CWE PO/MT-II Interview result & banks Preference | strategies4competitions

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

nginx said:
Well this is not very encouraging for freshers. What do you guys suggest, should we not go for Bank PO exams then?

There is always a part in every job which speaks for struggle...there are very few designations where freshers have joined...and climbed up the podium without breaking a sweat. Every field of expertise demands this...some areas are more stringent and keeps the pressure on you from the very first day, some are familiar with gradual increase of hardship.

IT for a start...has both the cultures...companies which are very restricted in Telecom/Service Provisioning and Mediation or Product/Billing are very particular about recruitment filters....they start to be significantly selective right from campus interviews , as many have already known to this fact...since they faced it, rejection panels, aptitude papers and online tests are tend to be running on a denying note rather than accepting...so Cracking these are challenges...and this continues even after joining in the initial training program. Also it varies greatly with the immediate requirement of the business unit or IDU which actually is responsible for the hiring. So its very normal that after joining these companies, freshers feel like kill zone, and its survival of the fittest...those who pass these ITP's ...stand very capable, confident and extremely skilled. There hardship ends right there when the get assigned to projects...

Companies who are based on outsourcing/consultancies or PS Projects/health Travel services (Accy,Wipro, TCS), they seek for more versatility and presence of mind rather than raw technical in their selection policies. They are lenient to an extent even in their training programs and also as a matter of fact (known to all) hire mass number of freshers...Because they make up in brute strength to beef up revenue and believe in "Horizontal" approach in their PDLC. ( Project Development Life Cycle). Hardship starts for freshers there when they pass out from training..and finds that the technology or domain of expertise they acquired in their training are completely or massively irrelevant and incompetent with the project or assignment they got taggged. like say a good C programmer gets into a Siebel project, a capable JAVA resource has to work in some Data Warehousing. so there struggle starts and even can last for years until and unless they find their weapon of choice. On the contrary....many remain stagnant in "Bench" or Resource Pool for long time finding nothing meaningful.

Banks and PO, my father 35 years in UBI, on the verge of retirement and with tired muscles and old bones, has to travel to another zilla to his office! and listen to daily abuse from rural customers....so lts one kind of struggle.

But just because there is struggle... doesn't mean that your life has began to end, no one's has....those IT freshers who spent sleepless nights just to pass an impossible test in training...and saw their fellow mates getting sacked before their own eyes...are now leading projects in international cities....

Those who struggled finding proper projects matching their skills...and thought wasted their half-life in bench have now become cross-skill experts, even mangers of two-three platforms and doing a simple MBA to become SPMs and directors...

He who has spent nights under a single roof in power cut with mosquitoes ..in a bank quarter..in some god-forsaken village...has become successful Father's...ran a family with pride for more than 3 decades and fulfilled the dreams of his son to become a successful man.

there are lot of things around you in this universe to get discouraged about, but funny thing is , we are into it, and its not ending so soon....so Find your encouragement...be a man.

Re: FAQ and Help for Freshers In IT/Telecom

i too am in final sem of btech, and by reading the points described here, looks like i am the only one here who is not at all interested in Govt. jobs, living that tension free life or having that social status..
Many of my friends just crave over those IES officers and say "yaar batti waali gaadi chahiye, bas aur kuch nhi..

"
Me, i was interested in comps since i was in 3rd class, and till today, nothing has changed, i still want to do a job (and probably a business later if i can) in IT field only, nothing else interests me, wanna be a pentester and want to explore ethical hacking field for rest of my life..
Though some points here are now creating some confusion in my mind, seeing that most of IT professionals gets frustated by their jobs in 2-3yrs and switch to another field..

^^"Though some points here are now creating some confusion in my mind, seeing that most of IT professionals gets frustated by their jobs in 2-3yrs and switch to another field.. "

U are an IT security enthusiast...at least you should know that after CCDA, information security analysts and network designers spent almost half their lives in that field only...they may change employer but never the title. CISSP,CISA, CISM and he Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH) Program has no limits and bounds where a single individual can perform extraordinary tasks, earn in trillions and beyond all, has a chance to land a supreme Dignified Post serving his own country from cyber media and terrorist threats. These does not justify a short 2-3 years tenure. Even minor telecom vendors here in SEA like Axis has Network and Firewall security group consists employees with age group ranging from 24 to 50!

yes, but i still have NIL experience in professional aspects, i have no job experience, and i don't know the hardships that comes when you are working with an employer, i have just heard that life becomes hell once you are in professional world, everyone ready to backstab you, just wanting to be on the top by hook or by crook, and reading the posts here, i think most of the employees want to join govt. jobs just because of the reason that they have no tension like this there, either you want to work or not, it's upto you and no one can fire you for that...
Info. Security is a vast field in itself, and i agree with your point as most of the Security professionals i have read about, spends almost all their Professional lifetime under that title only..

"i have just heard that life becomes hell once you are in professional world, everyone ready to backstab you, just wanting to be on the top by hook or by crook, and reading the posts here, i think most of the employees want to join govt. jobs just because of the reason that they have no tension like this there, either you want to work or not, it's upto you and no one can fire you for that..."

I'm in IT, its not hell, I have friends in IT, in Mumbai, Blore, Pune, Hyd Malaysia. Sgpore, Indonesia who are in IT and they are laughing their socks off now watching movies at home together...we'll play online games after some time with "their" friends and friends of friends..who are also in IT....and we all are not living in Hell...yes are there lot many people out there who are not part of IT and living bette...but there are also people out there who are still in factory over watch, night staying for audit, supervising a grid failure or something which involves hardcore manual labor and in 45 degrees and 89% humidity...they are grumbling about hell.

haha, let's see what in there for me, it's still some months left for me to enjoy college life...

ratul said:
yes, but i still have NIL experience in professional aspects, i have no job experience, and i don't know the hardships that comes when you are working with an employer, i have just heard that life becomes hell once you are in professional world, everyone ready to backstab you, just wanting to be on the top by hook or by crook, and reading the posts here, i think most of the employees want to join govt. jobs just because of the reason that they have no tension like this there, either you want to work or not, it's upto you and no one can fire you for that...
Info. Security is a vast field in itself, and i agree with your point as most of the Security professionals i have read about, spends almost all their Professional lifetime under that title only..

Haven't you heard of corruption and backstabbing in govt jobs? There is no perfect job in this world buddy. Every job has challenges at this level. You are getting paid lots of money to take on certain responsibilities and risks. Why will they pay you 25-30k per month to do nothing? So don't think about all these aspects and go with what your heart desires. You will find a way to deal with all the backstabbing, we all do. Even in school days we used to have bullies and abusive kids but we got through all that didn't we?

As freshers, we have to be willing to work hard and take up challenges. There is no better time for it than now because you don't have a family to support, kids to feed and educate. You can afford to quit a job if you don't like it because you know your parents will look after you in the meantime. You won't always have this luxury. As you get older, your responsibilities will increase, your freedom will decrease, you will have to think twice about quitting your job.

nginx said:
Haven't you heard of corruption and backstabbing in govt jobs? There is no perfect job in this world buddy. Every job has challenges at this level. You are getting paid lots of money to take on certain responsibilities and risks. Why will they pay you 25-30k per month to do nothing? So don't think about all these aspects and go with what your heart desires. You will find a way to deal with all the backstabbing, we all do. Even in school days we used to have bullies and abusive kids but we got through all that didn't we?

As freshers, we have to be willing to work hard and take up challenges. This is no better time for it than now because you don't have a family to support, kids to feed and educate. You can afford to quit a job if you don't like it because you know your parents will look after you in the meantime. You won't always have this luxury. As you get older, your responsibilities will increase, your freedom will decrease, you will have to think twice about quitting your job.

this thing forced me to postpone my marriage to my late 20's, hehe..

W

^^if you have passion for information security then go for it but let me tell you one thing about govt jobs.yes in many govt jobs you have to work but if average for a year is considered the % of hard working govt jobs is much less compared to pvt sector.now about backstabbing yes it exists in govt jobs but it is a matter of concern only if you are in some serious bribe taking(not sharing with your colleagues/snatching their opportunities to take bribe/offended some old timer) but if you are only interested in official salary,perks & some reasonable extra income then you are pretty much safe.only thing you should keep in mind is that you don't always get what you want & many times you have to make compromises.it is entirely possible that even with passion you will not make it big in information security while even without passion you will lead a very comfortable life in a govt job so question is this:would you ever regret joining IT if you fail to achieve what you dreamt of?if yes then probably IT is not for you,if no then you are made for IT sector.

ratul said:
this thing forced me to postpone my marriage to my late 20's, hehe..

Don't wait that long dude, you are getting old and rickety

whitestar_999 said:
^^if you have passion for information security then go for it but let me tell you one thing about govt jobs.yes in many govt jobs you have to work but if average for a year is considered the % of hard working govt jobs is much less compared to pvt sector.now about backstabbing yes it exists in govt jobs but it is a matter of concern only if you are in some serious bribe taking(not sharing with your colleagues/snatching their opportunities to take bribe/offended some old timer) but if you are only interested in official salary,perks & some reasonable extra income then you are pretty much safe.only thing you should keep in mind is that you don't always get what you want & many times you have to make compromises.it is entirely possible that even with passion you will not make it big in information security while even without passion you will lead a very comfortable life in a govt job so question is this:would you ever regret joining IT if you fail to achieve what you dreamt of?if yes then probably IT is not for you,if no then you are made for IT sector.

I think new college passouts should follow their heart regarding what kind of career they want to pursue. If you give up even before your career has begun, what's the point of having dreams? Yes its possible you might not succeed but as they say no risk, no gain....

whitestar_999 said:
^^if you have passion for information security then go for it but let me tell you one thing about govt jobs.yes in many govt jobs you have to work but if average for a year is considered the % of hard working govt jobs is much less compared to pvt sector.now about backstabbing yes it exists in govt jobs but it is a matter of concern only if you are in some serious bribe taking(not sharing with your colleagues/snatching their opportunities to take bribe/offended some old timer) but if you are only interested in official salary,perks & some reasonable extra income then you are pretty much safe.only thing you should keep in mind is that you don't always get what you want & many times you have to make compromises.it is entirely possible that even with passion you will not make it big in information security while even without passion you will lead a very comfortable life in a govt job so question is this:would you ever regret joining IT if you fail to achieve what you dreamt of?if yes then probably IT is not for you,if no then you are made for IT sector.

Incredibly false....The world is not Running on Govt jobs and its so called "not so passionate but comfortable" machinery only....Billions of people in the whole world are working in Information Science and they are not returning home every evening with "why am i doing this" or "why have i joined IT" mindset. Even juniors like nginx very well comprehended that every designation , every job has its own pros and cons....there could be thousands of instances shown where Govt Sector employees are grumbling, extremely dissatisfied, even protesting in days long campaigns against poor work culture and lack of basic infrastructure in so many areas, especially in suburban and rural ones. I am amazed to see that even in 2013, arguments are being made on points which actually means "The only class of people who may have lot of passion but wants very uncomfortable and regretful job title can join IT, others please go to Govt...just because in Govt jobs...without passion you can make money comfortably" How irredeemably foolish this can be? How many times i have to portray that discussing the credibility of IT sector and going against it with vague directives like such above...proves nothing but immaturity.

With a moral and sincere sense of learning, i humbly would beg people posting here... to concentrate on the factors which ACTUALLY encourages people to join Govt Jobs rather than dwelling on negativity of its "imaginary" rival sector such as IT.

G

whitestar_999 said:
^^if you have passion for information security then go for it but let me tell you one thing about govt jobs.yes in many govt jobs you have to work but if average for a year is considered the % of hard working govt jobs is much less compared to pvt sector.now about backstabbing yes it exists in govt jobs but it is a matter of concern only if you are in some serious bribe taking(not sharing with your colleagues/snatching their opportunities to take bribe/offended some old timer) but if you are only interested in official salary,perks & some reasonable extra income then you are pretty much safe.only thing you should keep in mind is that you don't always get what you want & many times you have to make compromises.it is entirely possible that even with passion you will not make it big in information security while even without passion you will lead a very comfortable life in a govt job so question is this:would you ever regret joining IT if you fail to achieve what you dreamt of?if yes then probably IT is not for you,if no then you are made for IT sector.

Dude don't generalize.If someone has a true passion he can achieve success no matter which sector he is in.It all depends on definition of success you talk about.

Every sector has pros and cons-
Govt sector-
Pros-Job security,decent starting pay(6th pay commission),Fixed timings,Decent perks ,salary,Service to people,Moderate growth.
Cons-Nepotism,Politics in promotion,Reservation(gonna come soon in promotion),Frustration in some time of life ,Transfers, Remote field postings,Corruption,Retirement by 60.etc

Private sector-
Pros-Higher pay,Recognition of talent,Performance based pay,Good work culture,Less politics and nepotism,No retirement.
Cons-Job not secure,Work pressure(doesn't matter if you are passionate) .

A IAS officer or central govt employee cannot make more than 1.5Lks per month / 20Lk p.a by end of
his service(without considering bribes-assume honest). If he spends less , end of his service he can buy max
one property in his life time.

But People like E.Sreedharan (Delhi metro chief) ,Dr A.P.J Kalam, etc ,IPS Shivdeep Lande(Patna hero cop).
They were passionate about service and joined public sector.The got the name and fame because they were passionate.

On other hand look at top CEOS ,CTOs ,Managers etc in top private cos-They easily reach 2Crore to 3Crore or more in corporate sector.
These people work passionately and reach top post.They can buy anything.
People like Chanda Kochhar (ICICI CEO), Ratan Tata,Narayan Murthy had passions.But they chose private sector and succeeded.
They were great entrepreneurs.Created so many jobs for so many young people in this country.

So always choose a career by your passion and priorities in life rather than being conservative and thinking negatively.

W

Dude don't generalize.If someone has a true passion he can achieve success no matter which sector he is in

this is where you didn't get my point.if you measure your passion with success then you simply don't have a real passion.e.g.an above average person with a passion of teaching because he believes in it joined a govt school,taught honestly,never gave private tuition to earn extra money & retired as a simple man.throughout his profession he never regretted not joining govt service even when he knew he could have & this is real passion.
now imagine a person who joined IT sector hoping to reach a CEO level position & salary of crores but after working hard for years could only reach middle management level earning few lakhs per month with lots of tension/responsibilities he never thought of when young.after watching one of his friend who joined a govt job same time he joined IT sector now becoming a gazatted officer with power & social status he now regret why he too didn't joined govt service.

just like not every govt employee can be E sreedharan similarly not every IT sector employee can become next CEO/narayan murthy.this is the reality of life & this is where you have to be completely honest with yourself about your passion.a person having true passion may not make it big but he will not regret following his passion.if you only care about success then you simply don't have passion.i am not saying don't follow your passion,i am saying first identify if you even have a true passion at all.

P.S.btw many persons don't become IAS just to earn money but to actually bring about some meaningful changes in society.a honest IAS officer can change lives of more people than a top level entrepreneur.

whitestar_999 said:
this is where you didn't get my point.if you measure your passion with success then you simply don't have a real passion.e.g.an above average person with a passion of teaching because he believes in it joined a govt school,taught honestly,never gave private tuition to earn extra money & retired as a simple man.throughout his profession he never regretted not joining govt service even when he knew he could have & this is real passion.
now imagine a person who joined IT sector hoping to reach a CEO level position & salary of crores but after working hard for years could only reach middle management level earning few lakhs per month with lots of tension/responsibilities he never thought of when young.after watching one of his friend who joined a govt job same time he joined IT sector now becoming a gazatted officer with power & social status he now regret why he too didn't joined govt service.

just like not every govt employee can be E sreedharan similarly not every IT sector employee can become next CEO/narayan murthy.this is the reality of life & this is where you have to be completely honest with yourself about your passion.a person having true passion may not make it big but he will not regret following his passion.if you only care about success then you simply don't have passion.i am not saying don't follow your passion,i am saying first identify if you even have a true passion at all.

P.S.btw many persons don't become IAS just to earn money but to actually bring about some meaningful changes in society.a honest IAS officer can change lives of more people than a top level entrepreneur.

You mean friend with reservation, the way caste and category politics is heading, soon a general category person won't even be able to become a gazetted officer from clerk.

Also, 90% of the people I know who are ICS or are studying for ICS are doing it for the status only, the person who wan't to become ICS to help society are critically endangered..

W

tkin said:
You mean friend with reservation, the way caste and category politics is heading, soon a general category person won't even be able to become a gazetted officer from clerk.

Also, 90% of the people I know who are ICS or are studying for ICS are doing it for the status only, the person who wan't to become ICS to help society are critically endangered..

don't worry.reservation in promotion is not a decided issue & will take constitutional amendment & long fought supreme court case to apply universally.as of now the only issue of concern in some govt departments is that your colleague who joined at same time as you got promotion 2 years earlier than you because of promotion.promotion in govt job is not merit based but seniority based so after a fixed period of time you will get promotion just that in some cases because of reservation this period can be smaller.

whitestar_999 said:
P.S.btw many persons don't become IAS just to earn money but to actually bring about some meaningful changes in society.a honest IAS officer can change lives of more people than a top level entrepreneur.

i want to add something to this, many of my friends have joined coaching center called "Made Easy", where they teach you for GATE as well as IAS/IES posts, and teachers there claim themselves as "TOP level IAS/IES officers who got <100 rank in their respective exams and now teaching here"..
My friend told me that the teachers frankly told them that while doing their govt. job, they were paid very less, ~50k for that post, here while teaching, they earn ~1.2lacs per month, so that's why they left their posts...
Now, they tell their stories that how much power they used to feel with the status they had, and inspired by them, all the students there now want to join IAS or IES not for any social causes, but only because they want that "power" in their hands, and i mean literally all of them..
And made easy is not a small coaching center, it's one of the largest and trusted coaching centers in india, with over 300 students per batch, so you can think that what's the thinking of these "future IAS officers", they don't want to join for any social cause..

Ratul, the want of power is not that bad, It has origin since the death of Dinosaurs via Alexander The great through the rail-lines of East India company and then making "Complete Men in Poiltics" since 1947 in India...

Want of Power is nothing to be worried about, USE OF THAT POWER IS...

sam_738844 said:
Ratul, the want of power is not that bad, It has origin since the death of Dinosaurs via Alexander The great through the rail-lines of East India company and then making "Complete Men in Poiltics" since 1947 in India... Want of Power is nothing to be worried about, USE OF THAT POWER IS...

yes that i knw, i was just presenting my views on the statement of whitestar that many join IAS for meaningful changes in society, none of them gives a damn about society, those many are actually very few left now..

^^ Very True

W

and teachers there claim themselves as "TOP level IAS/IES officers who got <100 rank in their respective exams and now teaching here"..

bullsh1t.putting IAS & IES in same category is like placing a ferrari with a hyundai.i have lived in Delhi & made easy is just a small institute for IES compared to the likes of vajiram & ravi/mohanti of synergy whose name every decent UPSC civil services aspirant knows & where teachers make crores in months.there never was any teacher in these institutes who actually got an under 100 or even under 200 rank in UPSC civil serices & left to join these institutes.though i have heard about some IES leaving their job for coaching institutes.

whitestar_999 said:
bullsh1t.putting IAS & IES in same category is like placing a ferrari with a hyundai.i have lived in Delhi & made easy is just a small institute for IES compared to the likes of vajiram & ravi/mohanti of synergy whose name every decent UPSC civil services aspirant knows & where teachers make crores in months.there never was any teacher in these institutes who actually got an under 100 or even under 200 rank in UPSC civil serices & left to join these institutes.though i have heard about some IES leaving their job for coaching institutes.

dat analogy!!!

dat income!!!

Ratul ..Y U NO leave IT security and Join synergy?

Wait, rule of thumb, engineers go for IES and general students for IAS, one issue with IAS is that even with all that power you'll be a puppet to the politicians,here some influential people even threaten them openly, no person with even a morsel of dignity should go for IAS, IES all the way.

whitestar_999 said:
bullsh1t.putting IAS & IES in same category is like placing a ferrari with a hyundai.

i had'nt placed them in same category, i just used it as IAS or IES...

sam_738844 said:
dat analogy!!!

dat income!!!

Ratul ..Y U NO leave IT security and Join synergy?

For one crore per annum I'l drag my **** through a field of broken glass for a mile

sam_738844 said:
dat analogy!!!

dat income!!!

Ratul ..Y U NO leave IT security and Join synergy?

hehe..

wat, synergy shoes from action??

no thanks, i love my coding world..

ratul said:
hehe..
wat, synergy shoes from action??
no thanks, i love my coding world..

Its one crore per annum, with that much money I could finally leave the footpath and get myself a home, and hot food, regularly, gimme synargy contact no.

tkin said:
Its one crore per annum, with that much money I could finally leave the footpath and get myself a home, and hot food, regularly, gimme synargy contact no.

i think he mentioned crores in a month..

btw, it's going offtopic guys, i found this one site (Ethical Hacker Penetration Tester Salary in United States | Indeed.com), is this data reliable??
*i.imgur.com/Dn6zomo.png

if it's true, then y we don't see this in india, ($1lac=55lac rs. pa)..

The same reason a CEO in India is paid a lot less than CEOs in USA. 100k is not that a big salary in USA, check out how much a top lawyer makes.

Shortcut to crore per month--> First Join IAS or IES even if your too damn interested in computers and coding and all...j j..just leave it...u gonna make crores in month!

Then just spend 30-35 years and then retire to become Ex-I*S. Then when your about like 60 years old, join synergy to teach really really rich people abolut how to crack those exams..

congo...thats it! u have 1 crore in ur bank account at the end of that month..wat? not satisfied? what did u say..."u forgot coding which you most loved?" dont worry... join an IT farm now.

sam_738844 said:
Shortcut to crore per month--> First Join IAS or IES even if your too damn interested in computers and coding and all...j j..just leave it...u gonna make crores in month!

Then just spend 30-35 years and then retire to become Ex-I*S. Then when your about like 60 years old, join synergy to teach really really rich people abolut how to crack those exams..

congo...thats it! u have 1 crore in ur bank account at the end of that month..wat? not satisfied? what did u say..."u forgot coding which you most loved?" dont worry... join an IT farm now.

A crore you say... goes to study hard.....

W

not 1 crore per annum but per few months if you are good(read many of your students score 320+ out of 600 in that subject papers).

@ratul,that's what i was saying.in your "made easy" comment it should be "IES" not "IAS or IES" because no IAS will leave his job for a mere coaching institute even if it pays crores.

@tkin,engineers constitutes ~45-50% of successful candidates in UPSC civil services exam.also an IAS is no puppet to any politician unless he willingly choose to become one because of corruption etc & even then it depends on that person's ability.remember politicians come & go but IAS remains.a good example of this is neera yadav who survived 3 govt(BJP,SP,BSP who don't even see eye to eye) even after supreme court of india held her accountable for ~400cr scam without spending a single day in jail & to top it off won the IAS association election & finally resigned just a few weeks before her retirement to bury any legal issue.rest assured that if an IAS officer has made it a personal matter against someone then only god or connections with gandhi family can help you.i know you are in WB but whatever you think WB of today is still far behind the laalu prasad's reign of 90's bihar & even then IAS were not to be taken lightly.like i said it also depends on person & if the person itself is weak no amount of power will help.

P.S.i am loving this ignore list function.just add the user's name to list & all posts by that user becomes hidden.

tkin said:
The same reason a CEO in India is paid a lot less than CEOs in USA. 100k is not that a big salary in USA, check out how much a top lawyer makes.

, darn, in india, max salary is shown 10lac pa, in usa, that's avg salary..

Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH) Certification Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale India
*i.imgur.com/MLjXrdO.png

Take a look at this...

Security Consultant, (Computing / Networking / Information Technology) Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale India

whitestar_999 said:
not 1 crore per annum but per few months if you are good(read many of your students score 320+ out of 600 in that subject papers).

@ratul,that's what i was saying.in your "made easy" comment it should be "IES" not "IAS or IES" because no IAS will leave his job for a mere coaching institute even if it pays crores.

@tkin,engineers constitutes ~45-50% of successful candidates in UPSC civil services exam.also an IAS is no puppet to any politician unless he willingly choose to become one because of corruption etc & even then it depends on that person's ability.remember politicians come & go but IAS remains.a good example of this is neera yadav who survived 3 govt(BJP,SP,BSP who don't even see eye to eye) even after supreme court of india held her accountable for ~400cr scam without spending a single day in jail & to top it off won the IAS association election & finally resigned just a few weeks before her retirement to bury any legal issue.rest assured that if an IAS officer has made it a personal matter against someone then only god or connections with gandhi family can help you.i know you are in WB but whatever you think WB of today is still far behind the laalu prasad's reign of 90's bihar & even then IAS were not to be taken lightly.like i said it also depends on person & if the person itself is weak no amount of power will help.

P.S.i am loving this ignore list function.just add the user's name to list & all posts by that user becomes hidden.

I agree but just yesterday a Police Commissioner was stripped of his post and sent to work as the bodyguard of a politician who ordered it, same thing happened to another IPS officer last year(Crime wing chief), I agree IAS gets a bit more respect but still

I have a relative, who was a judge, he got frustrated with the legal system and left it to go corporate, sometimes this political pressure tends to get to even IAS officers.

sam_738844 said:
Take a look at this...

Security Consultant, (Computing / Networking / Information Technology) Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale India

That's not very good, I mean after 10yrs or so even an IT analyst gets that much I think, or is that the starting salary of a IT Security expert?

sam_738844 said:
Take a look at this...

Security Consultant, (Computing / Networking / Information Technology) Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale India

yup, it's still not good, it's almost 500% less than usa's salary, even half would've been good, but it's 5 times less..

guess my career plan should go like: take 5-10yrs experience in india, meanwhile clearing exams like CEH, OSCP, CCNA Security and others, then either start a business in IT Security or definitely go abroad..

One of my seniors got in a small company as Info Sec. Analyst last yr @ meager 13.5k per month, after one year, he was in dubai earning 70k (not too much i know but it's good for a 1yr experienced candidate..)

tkin to be Security Consultant, you need to be very good at it. Read this

CCIE is the most demanded Certification in Networking Domain, offered by Cisco Systems. Experienced CCIE Engineers are getting upto 40 Lacs INR Packages in India. Whereas a fresher can expect 5+ in very beginning of his/her career. Scope/Future of CCIE certification/course in very bright. Btech/BE/BCA/BA/B.com or BSCIT, any graduate can do CCIE. You don't need to have relevant experience or knowledge about Networking to start preparing for CCIE.

CCIE Engineers are highest paid Network Professionals in World. As it is most respected and highest level of Certification. There are very Few CCIE's in this world. There are around 23,000 CCIE R&S engineers, whereas companies need more than 1.5Lacs. There are around 4000 CCIE Security Certified Engineers in World, whereas industry need 20,000 CCIE Security Version 4 Engineers.
Out of all CCIE tracks, CCIE R&S is the evergreen track. CCIE Security is the most demanded certification out of all CCIE tracks.

A CCIE R&S Certified Engineer can expect around 5 Lacs Package as a fresher, whereas A CCIE Security Certified engineer can easily get around 7 Lacs Package as a fresher.

And yes in USA its way higher...of course why not? we all know why business and knowledge is being outsourced lin India by MNC.

*computer-careers-review.toptenreviews.com/network-security-specialist-review.html

sam_738844 said:
tkin to be Security Consultant, you need to be very good at it. Read this

CCIE is the most demanded Certification in Networking Domain, offered by Cisco Systems. Experienced CCIE Engineers are getting upto 40 Lacs INR Packages in India. Whereas a fresher can expect 5+ in very beginning of his/her career. Scope/Future of CCIE certification/course in very bright. Btech/BE/BCA/BA/B.com or BSCIT, any graduate can do CCIE. You don't need to have relevant experience or knowledge about Networking to start preparing for CCIE.

CCIE Engineers are highest paid Network Professionals in World. As it is most respected and highest level of Certification. There are very Few CCIE's in this world. There are around 23,000 CCIE R&S engineers, whereas companies need more than 1.5Lacs. There are around 4000 CCIE Security Certified Engineers in World, whereas industry need 20,000 CCIE Security Version 4 Engineers.
Out of all CCIE tracks, CCIE R&S is the evergreen track. CCIE Security is the most demanded certification out of all CCIE tracks.

A CCIE R&S Certified Engineer can expect around 5 Lacs Package as a fresher, whereas A CCIE Security Certified engineer can easily get around 7 Lacs Package as a fresher.

From where and how do we get the certification, exams, fees etc?

tkin said:
From where and how do we get the certification, exams, fees etc?

Certifications - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems

tkin said:
From where and how do we get the certification, exams, fees etc?

ahem, this is what i found from wikipedia:

WikiPedia said:
Written examination

The first requirement to achieve CCIE certification is to pass a written examination specific for the CCIE track the candidate is pursuing. The CCIE written examination is a two hour qualification exam consisting of 90-110 questions, and can be taken at any Cisco authorized Pearson VUE testing center. Questions may be a combination of multiple choice and more complex, interactive items that assess technical knowledge. The results of the written exam are pass/fail and are available immediately. The passing score is set by statistical analysis and is subject to change. The scoring is reported on a scale of 300-1000 points, and the current cost of the exam is $350 per attempt. Passing the CCIE written exam is a pre-requisite to sit the CCIE lab exam.
Lab examination

The second and far more difficult requirement needed to achieve CCIE certification is to pass a grueling hands on lab examination administered by Cisco. The specific format of the lab is currently not the same across all tracks, but in general the entire time of the lab exam is 8 hours. The CCIE lab requires a candidate to configure and troubleshoot a series of complex networks to given specifications in this limited amount of time. Point values are given for each task, and a candidate must achieve a given number of points (About 80%) to pass the lab exam. The current cost of the exam is $1500 per attempt not including travel and lodging expenses. The CCIE lab exam is graded by trained proctors who ensure the entire criterion are met and points are awarded accordingly. Typically results of the lab exam are available within 48 hours.

The CCIE lab has traditionally only been available to take at a handful of Cisco lab locations worldwide including Bangalore, Beijing, Brussels, Dubai, Hong Kong, Raleigh, San Jose, São Paulo, Sydney and Tokyo. Not all tracks are available at all locations. Recently, there have been efforts made by Cisco to expand the availability of the lab in some tracks by introducing both a mobile lab which moves periodically to different cities around the world, and through introducing the ability to take the lab exam at a Pearson VUE testing center.

sam_738844 said:
Certifications - IT Certification and Career Paths - Cisco Systems

Gawd Damn too many options, which is the best? And how do I go about it in India? Please provide a small summary here, you created this thread for this remember?

Network Bulls is Cisco Networking Certifications Training Institute in India.

Network Bulls was established in 2009 and are first choice for Training on Cisco CCIE courses and offer trainings on very popular Cisco, Juniper, Checkpoint, Microsoft programs like CCNA, CCNA Security, Ethical Hacking, CEH, MCITP, CCSA, CCNA Voice, CCNP, CCSP/CCNP Security, CCIP, CCVP, CCDA, CCDP, CCIE Routing and Switching, CCIE Security Version 4, CCIE Voice, CCIE Service Provider and CCIE Wireless. Over the last two years have become Asia`s leading Networking & Security Courses Training, Solutions & Consultancy Provider.

Info About CCIE Security training program for freshers:

CCIE Security: CCNA, CCNA Security, CCNP, CCSP, Ethical Hacking CEH from EC-Council, CCIE Security Written, CCIE Security Lab Training | Free Rack practice time in case candidate does not pass in first attempt.

Program fees

Integrated CCIE Security Program for freshers Duration and fee is as follows:
Duration for Freshers: 8-9 months - 6-7hours/day class
Fee: Rs 1,50,000/- including all taxes
CCIE Security Duration and Fee will be different for Fresher'while experienced CCIE's Integrated program and CCIE Security Bootcamps and other tracks for Experienced Candidates, Click here for Details.

Network Bulls facilities makes learning environment friendly, professional as well as comfortable. At its disposal, Network Bulls has an impressive infrastructure in India. Some of the highlights of infrastructure available are:
Modern Rack Equipment. We use the most updated exquipment and infrastruture to conduct our programs
Individual Rack access to students with 24x7 lab access
CCIE Certified trainers with very good experience in industry and training
Biggest Cisco training lab in New Delhi and Gurgaon
Limited number of students in every class(Maximum 7)
1-on-1 training also available
Regular track, Fast track, Super fast track or customized training available
Hostel facility @ 5000/- per month(including 3 meals a day + Laundry etc)
Payment method using cash/credit cards/cheque
Corporate training and onsite training is also delivered
CCIE training for experienced engineers

Network Bulls offers CCIE training to experienced engineers at its Gurgaon location.
CCIE Security
CCIE training is given by experienced CCIE certified trainers.
CCIE Routing & Switching training is given by Vijay Negi (CCIE number 21307)
CCIE Security training is given by Vikas Kumar who is an industry expert in Security domain.

What is CCIE?

CCIE [Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert] is the highest level of expertise certification available in the field of Computer and Internet Networking. Offered by Cisco systems, world largest Networking Equipment seller in the world, this is the highest level of expertise available. Also known as doctorate in Networking, this certification requires you to a 3 hours written exam followed by a Lab exam 8 Hours. The CCIE is widely regarded as having one of the toughest, most demanding exams. It includes both a written exam and a day-long lab exam. This certification is aimed at senior level networking professionals who design, build, implement, maintain, or troubleshoot complex enterprise networking infrastructures.

Lab exam is only available in selected locations the world. As of today CCIE exam of Routing & Switching and CCIE Security is available in Bangalore while for other certifications like CCIE WIRELESS,CCIE VOICE or CCIE Service provider, one has to travel to Europe or USA etc.

Total of Worldwide CCIEs: 27222 (last updated 10/1/2010)
Total of Routing and Switching CCIEs: 21386
Total of Security CCIEs: 2589
Total of Service Provider CCIEs: 1289
Total of Voice CCIEs: 1958

"The CCIE has been considered the most difficult certification in the IT industry since its launch in 1993. It has two parts: a written exam and a practical lab test. The CCIE is offered in Seven tracks: Routing and switching; Security; Service provider; Storage networking, Designing, Wireless; and voice. The most popular track is routing and switching. "Over the life of the program, the overall pass rate has usually been 26%," says Mike Reid, senior manager of CCIE programs for Cisco, which won't reveal the pass rate for last year. "We target the material at an expert level. The pass rate is secondary."

What is the Average Salary offered to CCIE in India for freshers ?

Average CCIE Salary starts from Rs 8 Lakh/Annum for Freshers with CCIE Lab Certifications while experienced CCIE's are drawing upto 30 Lakh/Annum in India.

Outside India, the salary depends on the country however following is a standard in USA.

You can find thousand of Job vacancies around the world when your search for the keyword CCIE, with some of the best salaries being offered and you can easily get job in USA with average salary of 100,000 USD.

As CCIE exams says passing rate is the secondary, its the quality of expertise that matters.80% of the students who took CCIE training got good job offers before completion of the program. Not all the candidates who come for CCIE Security training in Delhi Gurgaon center appear for the exam because its an additional investment of Rs 80,000 - 1 Lakh per attempt. (Depending on travel location etc.) Generally passing rate is 3 attempts as per Cisco Records. But those who are interested to make this investment reaps great benefit throughout their careers.

In such a short time span, we have achieved various milestones. Because of the quality of training we have an amazing placement rate and student refer more people after getting into the jobs etc.

Student who took the training from Network Bulls has been working with some of the best companies in the country. Almost 90% of the students are not BE or BTECH but still got a chance to work with the best brands. All students who passed CCIE Lab spent an average 6 months to 8 months and all passed in the first attempt.

--Courtesy Network Bulls.

^^ So , no part time training, have to quit job, seems like a bit risky, maybe after I gain some experience so that I won't have to beg door to door of the companies to get a job later.

W

@tkin,you are right about it being risky.even gaining some experience may not be enough in time of economic downturn so never quit a job unless you have saved enough & accomplished some mentionable feats to put in your resume(some difficult project etc).

Wrong Again...These courses has nothing to do with current designation of a person be it a Fresher/Senior Associate/Team Lead/Entrepreneur/Developer/even CEO. They wont look for your accomplishment in some "difficult project" ( the term does not exist in IT..its not some school where some "subjects" are difficult or so...its childish term) in your CV as those will be completely irrelevant for what you will be learning and up to UNTIL AND UNLESS ITS NETWORK ORIENTED JOB you were doing...Skill Set in GUI prog, web service/methods, ASP.NET,Or OBI tool/DWH/SAP even java will be of little help to you in CCIE even if the stack is great.

read again about CCIE ..."The CCIE is widely regarded as having one of the toughest, most demanding exams. It includes both a written exam and a day-long lab exam. This certification is aimed at senior level networking professionals who design, build, implement, maintain, or troubleshoot complex enterprise networking infrastructures." The only thing they will concern about you is how good you are at network Security and if you cleared CCENT,CCNA CCNP before you are going for CCIE...It will be helpful for you only..just like knowing C++ helps you learn JAVA because both are OOP. Notice that they are also highlighting about senior level network professionals which implies that those who are already in-line for this are most fit for the same...and when you are already in alignment to you current JD as network specialist, it wont take a heavy toll on you.

Read below from Cisco....

Prerequisites

There are no formal prerequisites for CCIE certification. Other professional certifications or training courses are not required. Instead, candidates must first pass a written qualification exam and then the corresponding hands-on lab exam. You are expected to have an in-depth understanding of the topics in the exam blueprints and strongly encouraged to have three to five years of job experience before attempting certification.

check the flow diagram here for more clarity...*www.cisco.com/web/learning/certifications/expert/ccie_security/index.html

and tkin, quitting job and planning for an MS or Mtech or MBA is equally risky, quitting job alone itself is always risky...whatever you'll be having in mind for that, you have to absolutely sure and confident about its results and your future, it does not take an economic turbulence to get into trouble after quitting a job.

sam_738844 said:
."The CCIE is widely regarded as having one of the toughest, most demanding exams. It includes both a written exam and a day-long lab exam. This certification is aimed at senior level networking professionals who design, build, implement, maintain, or troubleshoot complex enterprise networking infrastructures."

a day long???

i read it is 8 hrs long, OSCP has 24hrs. exam in which you have to hack 5 servers, damn i so want to be OSCP certified..

sam_738844 said:
and tkin, quitting job and planning for an MS or Mtech or MBA is equally risky, quitting job alone itself is always risky...whatever you'll be having in mind for that, you have to absolutely sure and confident about its results and your future, it does not take an economic turbulence to get into trouble after quitting a job.

Atleast with MS or MTech or MBA you can be sure that once you pass out, your prospects of getting a job will be much brighter than when you were simply an undergrad.

ratul said:
yup, it's still not good, it's almost 500% less than usa's salary, even half would've been good, but it's 5 times less..
guess my career plan should go like: take 5-10yrs experience in india, meanwhile clearing exams like CEH, OSCP, CCNA Security and others, then either start a business in IT Security or definitely go abroad..
One of my seniors got in a small company as Info Sec. Analyst last yr @ meager 13.5k per month, after one year, he was in dubai earning 70k (not too much i know but it's good for a 1yr experienced candidate..)

Your post is misleading to say the least. People working in Dubai deserve to be paid 3 times more than that in India because Living cost there is 3 times that of a metropolitan city in India. Same goes for US, i've heard almost 45% of your earning goes way on various taxes.

an 8 LPA job in India is equivalent of a 80k$ ( 40+lpa ) job in the US.

mitraark said:
Your post is misleading to say the least. People working in Dubai deserve to be paid 3 times more than that in India because Living cost there is 3 times that of a metropolitan city in India. Same goes for US, i've heard almost 45% of your earning goes way on various taxes.

an 8 LPA job in India is equivalent of a 80k$ ( 40+lpa ) job in the US.

They do get a lot of benefits from the government in return for those taxes, not like in India where most of the tax money is used to help politicians and ministers lead a luxurious life.

nginx said:
They do get a lot of benefits from the government in return for those taxes, not like in India where most of the tax money is used to help politicians and ministers lead a luxurious life.

Yes i've heard they have a world class public education system, but we much cheaper things because of subsidies.

This is ON topic, don't go by the remuneration, i'd prefer working in my hometown than in any other city for a couple k extra per month, and i'd calculate all expenditures if i've to work outside ( assuming career growth options are somewhat similar in all cases )

mitraark said:
Yes i've heard they have a world class public education system, but we much cheaper things because of subsidies.

This is ON topic, don't go by the remuneration, i'd prefer working in my hometown than in any other city for a couple k extra per month, and i'd calculate all expenditures if i've to work outside ( assuming career growth options are somewhat similar in all cases )

Who doesn't like working in hometown? Even for 5K less salary I am willing to work in my hometown. Not having to pay rent can alone save 8-10K a month. Then time with family, home cooked meals and being able to speak in native language with people are always welcome benefits.

W

nginx said:
They do get a lot of benefits from the government in return for those taxes, not like in India where most of the tax money is used to help politicians and ministers lead a luxurious life.

taxes in USA are a much more serious & complicated matter than in India.there is a saying in USA that death & taxes are the only 2 things from which no one can escape.IRS(internal revenue service) is the most feared govt institution in USA(if you are a regular watcher of hollywood shows/movies you probably know this) & not without reason.it can empty/withdraw from your bank accounts(that's right) if it wishes without your permission to recover dues even if you don't agree & want to go to court.people actually hire professionals to fill their tax returns because even a single mistake in filling tax returns can prove very costly in USA.

P.S.btw Al Capone,the most notorious gangster in US history,was brought down not by police or FBI but by IRS.

Any Oracle/DBA/DWH aspirants in TDF , awaiting joining date as freshers, or looking for more elaborate scope of learning can post queries.

sam_738844 said:
Any Oracle/DBA/DWH aspirants in TDF , awaiting joining date as freshers, or looking for more elaborate scope of learning can post queries.

Most of the projects I did in college was with Oracle, I have an IBM oracle certification(given by third party, IBM Licensed training center), also another J2EE+Oracle certification(from a not so known center, IETE), I also did projects with DB2, and had developed shopping portal, library management websites using both oracle and db2, so, what scopes do I have?

I want to go to db field. Frankly, dev is not my thing, I'm not much good at it. So wanted some alternative, and db is something I feel "easy" and doing like. Networking was another, but I've scrapped it as of now. (or may be not

) I know a bit of Oracle/SQL though. (mainly Oracle 11g).

dashing.sujay said:
I wanted to go to db field. Frankly, dev is not my thing, I'm not much good at it. So wanted some alternative, and db is something I feel "easy" and doing like. Networking was another, but I've scrapped it as of now. (or may be not ) I know a bit of Oracle/SQL though. (mainly Oracle 11g).

Yeah man, oracle is easy, programming is like a breeze on oracle

dashing.sujay said:
I wanted to go to db field. Frankly, dev is not my thing, I'm not much good at it. So wanted some alternative, and db is something I feel "easy" and doing like. Networking was another, but I've scrapped it as of now. (or may be not ) I know a bit of Oracle/SQL though. (mainly Oracle 11g).

What do you mean by this? How do you think DEV team is working without DB? Its not something seperate. Any DBA must go thorugh intensive and critical development and pl/sql coding in all levels of business throughout his career. A DBA is THE DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR, and by that it literally means, HE KNOWS FRIGGIN EVERYTHING!! IN THAT GOD DAMN DATABASE....starting from its session paramters, architectural tierings, background processes, to every bit of DB objects, their cardinalities, dependencies, access previleges, DB Links....and million more things....and on top of all things....a massive knowledge base of Glamourous coding and Performance Tuning. ...Performanace Tuning is such a thing which actually defines and seperates a Developer from a DBA ...it also means that first you should...no you must become an Oracle Developer to Become an Oracle DBA. I'm not an DBA, I have client recognition from British Telecom for tuning 30 different cross-platoform interdependent legacy applications. Still i'm not even near a DBA. In out total project here with more than 1500 total employee strength, we have only 4 DBA...so are u getting my point?

...but just because i am not, doesnt mean u cant become a DBA....but never fear dev though....welcome to *

tkin said:
Most of the projects I did in college was with Oracle, I have an IBM oracle certification(given by third party, IBM Licensed training center), also another J2EE+Oracle certification(from a not so known center, IETE), I also did projects with DB2, and had developed shopping portal, library management websites using both oracle and db2, so, what scopes do I have?

Well for a start, you are ahead with +2 with that IBM Oracle Certification, that will help your moving up ( only when u'll be known as a Oracle Resource ). Orcale is typcially vast application area, it has nearly acquired every good COTS product and companies like IFLEX or SUN, they have the the largest business bas next to IBM and TerraData in terms of Business Intelligence, also Oracle CRM (customer relationship management) and its integrity with Siebel is unrivaled in Telecom Indsutry, then there are Orcale Apps, DWH, Oracle BI, Oracle BRM and like million more interfaces with which oracle sync seamlessly and provides end to end soultions to client-server environments across all platforms across the world. So if you are not upto scripting, Oracle is the way to go...JAVa on the other hand has its perks adn ever updating...so its also addictive...but me being a Oralce Resource....will vouch for the same. DB2 has somewhat restricted applications, but equally challenging and robust applications, manily Mainframing and Data Mining applications are mosly designed and optimized for DB2, since its an IBM thing, it has its own IBMer..OrthoDox taint in it...nevertheless its unimaginably powerful, even in some aspects, more powerful than Oracle, SQLserver MySQL....well...the IBM we see here in sector V is not the International Business Machine we should know about. If Scientists and Research Scolers of Old times are still alive and rocking... IBM is the one place to find them....IBM is the place to rule them all. I met one 21 Years Exp IBM Database Architect once...and he was like....dwelling in an region beyond my limits of thought, above some gray clouds of some Dark mountain ...unseeable, untouchable..seemed like he doesnt perish with time, doesnt wither with technology...like an Ancient Guardian of Database...godly.

sam_738844 said:
What do you mean by this? How do you think DEV team is working without DB? Its not something seperate. Any DBA must go thorugh intensive and critical development and pl/sql coding in all levels of business throughout his career. A DBA is THE DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR, and by that it literally means, HE KNOWS FRIGGIN EVERYTHING!! IN THAT GOD DAMN DATABASE....starting from its session paramters, architectural tierings, background processes, to every bit of DB objects, their cardinalities, dependencies, access previleges, DB Links....and million more things....and on top of all things....a massive knowledge base of Glamourous coding and Performance Tuning. ...Performanace Tuning is such a thing which actually defines and seperates a Developer from a DBA ...it also means that first you should...no you must become an Oracle Developer to Become an Oracle DBA. I'm not an DBA, I have client recognition from British Telecom for tuning 30 different cross-platoform interdependent legacy applications. Still i'm not even near a DBA. In out total project here with more than 1500 total employee strength, we have only 4 DBA...so are u getting my point? ...but just because i am not, doesnt mean u cant become a DBA....but never fear dev though....welcome to *

Well for a start, you are ahead with +2 with that IBM Oracle Certification, that will help your moving up ( only when u'll be known as a Oracle Resource ). Orcale is typcially vast application area, it has nearly acquired every good COTS product and companies like IFLEX or SUN, they have the the largest business bas next to IBM and TerraData in terms of Business Intelligence, also Oracle CRM (customer relationship management) and its integrity with Siebel is unrivaled in Telecom Indsutry, then there are Orcale Apps, DWH, Oracle BI, Oracle BRM and like million more interfaces with which oracle sync seamlessly and provides end to end soultions to client-server environments across all platforms across the world. So if you are not upto scripting, Oracle is the way to go...JAVa on the other hand has its perks adn ever updating...so its also addictive...but me being a Oralce Resource....will vouch for the same. DB2 has somewhat restricted applications, but equally challenging and robust applications, manily Mainframing and Data Mining applications are mosly designed and optimized for DB2, since its an IBM thing, it has its own IBMer..OrthoDox taint in it...nevertheless its unimaginably powerful, even in some aspects, more powerful than Oracle, SQLserver MySQL....well...the IBM we see here in sector V is not the International Business Machine we should know about. If Scientists and Research Scolers of Old times are still alive and rocking... IBM is the one place to find them....IBM is the place to rule them all. I met one 21 Years Exp IBM Database Architect once...and he was like....dwelling in an region beyond my limits of thought, above some gray clouds of some Dark mountain ...unseeable, untouchable..seemed like he doesnt perish with time, doesnt wither with technology...like an Ancient Guardian of Database...godly.

Anyway thanks for the heads up, anyway how much does DBAs get paid? And typically how long does it take to become one? :noob_question:

tkin said:
Yeah man, oracle is easy, programming is like a breeze on oracle

Yeah, still I did the query question wrong in GATE.

sam_738844 said:
What do you mean by this? How do you think DEV team is working without DB? Its not something seperate. Any DBA must go thorugh intensive and critical development and pl/sql coding in all levels of business throughout his career. A DBA is THE DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR, and by that it literally means, HE KNOWS FRIGGIN EVERYTHING!! IN THAT GOD DAMN DATABASE....starting from its session paramters, architectural tierings, background processes, to every bit of DB objects, their cardinalities, dependencies, access previleges, DB Links....and million more things....and on top of all things....a massive knowledge base of Glamourous coding and Performance Tuning. ...Performanace Tuning is such a thing which actually defines and seperates a Developer from a DBA ...it also means that first you should...no you must become an Oracle Developer to Become an Oracle DBA. I'm not an DBA, I have client recognition from British Telecom for tuning 30 different cross-platoform interdependent legacy applications. Still i'm not even near a DBA. In out total project here with more than 1500 total employee strength, we have only 4 DBA...so are u getting my point? ...but just because i am not, doesnt mean u cant become a DBA....but never fear dev though....welcome to *

Firstly, apologies for a spell mistake;

dashing.sujay said:
I wanted to go to db field.

want*

I don't fear dev, but don't want to make it as a main stream career, rather would prefer DB or networking. And have very well idea of what a DBA is and it's responsibilities; which even I lure of. I'm no where near a DB dev as of now, but surely would want to (if at all I "land" in pvt sector).

Performance tuning or should I better call it as query optimisation, is something too high level for me now. Also, there are hardly any jobs for freshers with DB profile (at least what I see now-a-days).

sam_738844 said:
.....well...the IBM we see here in sector V is not the International Business Machine we should know about. If Scientists and Research Scolers of Old times are still alive and rocking... IBM is the one place to find them....IBM is the place to rule them all. I met one 21 Years Exp IBM Database Architect once...and he was like....dwelling in an region beyond my limits of thought, above some gray clouds of some Dark mountain ...unseeable, untouchable..seemed like he doesnt perish with time, doesnt wither with technology...like an Ancient Guardian of Database...godly.

tkin said:
Anyway thanks for the heads up, anyway how much does DBAs get paid? And typically how long does it take to become one? :noob_question:

Two most obvious and relevant questions...

Average DBA can earn 12-26 Lacs P.A even more depending upon employer and Responsibility. It can take as long as 10-15 years or may be 5-6 year to become one, depends upon one's own talent and interest.

I feel, 5-6 years dedicated in DB field should be required for a person to be of DBA level. But as you said, personal talent/interest/hard work may increase/decrease it. But 5 is min.

sam_738844 said:
Two most obvious and relevant questions...

Average DBA can earn 12-26 Lacs P.A even more depending upon employer and Responsibility. It can take as long as 10-15 years or may be 5-6 year to become one, depends upon one's own talent and interest.

One DBA ~= 10 Orcale Dev...in quantitative frame. Of course he does not do dev job

One DBA Fail ~= 3 Hours Server block and Outage ~= 2 Million Dollars Revenue Loss... Personal Experiecne

sam_738844 said:
One DBA ~= 10 Orcale Dev...in quantitative frame. Of course he does not do dev job

One DBA Fail ~= 3 Hours Server block and Outage ~= 2 Million Dollars Revenue Loss... Personal Experiecne

Too much pressure :cry:

one sucessful DBA= Respect+ Rig with Titan+super steady Girl Friend+ Peace in Family+ Car+ 2000XP

sam_738844 said:
one sucessful dba= respect+ rig with titan+super steady girl friend+ peace in family+ car+ 2000xp :d

Sold

tkin said:
Sold

Looks like tkin is floating on Cloud 9 again

nginx said:
Looks like tkin is floating on Cloud 9 again

Doesn't hurt to dream now, does it?

Any Sharepoint Resource in TDF? can anyone tell me about the exposure and scope of it against other equivalent products. I need both for freshers and people who are exped but new to Sharepoint.

if you are looking for prospect of job related to sharepoint, then my friend it is currently earning some high $$ in India.
But for freshers i have no idea.

Well, Actually there is some scope in Sharepoint in my current employer at onshore...and they are trying to impose that same job to some random guy with little or no exp even in web programming or basic HTML (to cut short the expense of hiring o course ), so it kinda sucks, so i am looking forward to expand it and find one of my own so that i can refer that guy...may be some fresher will get interested. Thanks for the info