For all those who are planning to join BIG IT companies

Infosys, TCS, or Wipro?

Sometimes computer science, IT or electronic and communication engineering students get placed in two or three major Indian IT companies and they find it hard to decide which one to join. "Infosys or TCS?" is one of the most common questions I have faced from such students. The answer is much simpler than they think it is.

"Neither."

This blog post is not about how these companies feed the stomachs of lakhs of people. This blog post is not about undermining the efforts of these companies. This blog is not about offending the employees of these organizations. That'll be an unintentional side-effect.

However, this blog post is about a choice that freshers usually have to make and the information they should have before they make the choice. This blog post is about urging the freshers who want to make a career in engineering to not make a mistake that I did because I did not have the necessary information at the right time; a mistake that I could correct two years later after I realized it. This blog post is about some very unpleasant facts about these major Indian IT companies that you wouldn't know unless you have been a part of it.

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

Some interesting links in the comment section as well:
Pin Dancing: Stuck in Code
The 5-year limit to being a coder in India | Swaroop C H - India, Technology, Life Skills
In India, Anxiety Over the Slow Pace of Innovation - NYTimes.com

nice articles... post some more.. if u know of 'em

Nice read man..... Thx for sharing...

A little harsh , but still , informative.

Not even a bit harsh, He simply put up all the points clearly..

I agree with this point by the blogger: -
" The 1% that do absorb the training do not stick to the organization for a long time because sooner or later they realize that they want to do some real engineering. "

Nice article shared..

This is the most bul%$^$% article I have ever read .

The fact and figures are just guesses , he does not know a sh!t .

Infi training is the best in India. #FACHT

You wont be going to onsite and it there is a particular reason behind it . Go figure it out .

I really hope the guy know some ground facts before he goes on such rants.

xtremevicky709 said:
This is the most bul%$^$% article I have ever read .

The fact and figures are just guesses , he does not know a sh!t .

Infi training is the best in India. #FACHT

You wont be going to onsite and it there is a particular reason behind it . Go figure it out .

I really hope the guy know some ground facts before he goes on such rants.

Read the article again and see this point

Training: People think that these organizations are good for freshers because they get a lot of training which they wouldn't get in other organizations. I must remind such people that attending trainings is not equivalent to learning. Indeed these organizations provide a lot of training to freshers but only about 1% of the trainees actually absorb the knowledge. The 1% that do absorb the training do not stick to the organization for a long time because sooner or later they realize that they want to do some real engineering. The figure '1%' isn't merely a guess. This is my observation across various trainee-batches that have been trained in one of these organizations. Think about it. Can you learn a new programming language in just 3 days? If your answer is "no", you shouldn't join one of these organizations. If your answer is "yes", you shouldn't join one of these organizations.

He never tells their training is bad, he said the number of freshers who get benefited with that is very less.

About onsite, i can't comment much but one thing for sure, if he once went for onsite, the dowry they are demanding is outrageous. I have seen it myself.

Whats the point again ? Do tell me ?

Who says Infi makes you learn a language in 3 days ? Do you even know how long there training is ?

And about the onsite , Which company do you work in ?

J

xtremevicky709 said:
Whats the point again ? Do tell me ?

Who says Infi makes you learn a language in 3 days ? Do you even know how long there training is ?

Yes, the training is 1.5 months to 3 months long where you are taught 15 to 20 technologies. How much time do you get to learn each technology then? Do the math yourself.

xtremevicky709 said:
This is the most bul%$^$% article I have ever read .

The fact and figures are just guesses , he does not know a sh!t .

Infi training is the best in India. #FACHT

You wont be going to onsite and it there is a particular reason behind it . Go figure it out .

The article is not bullshit. Did you read the article properly? Read it again. The author has himself said that he is guessing the numbers but they are not wild guesses.

I have worked myself in Infosys and the 5 points he has listed in his article represent Infosys very accurately.

Infosys training is not very good. The ComPre tests in Infosys after training contain wrong questions!! What do you say about that? They teach you wrong things also in the training!! That is why smart people become frustrated and leave.

The article has made it to many good forums.

Hacker News | Infosys, TCS or Wipro?

HackerStreet.India | Infosys, TCS, or Wipro?

YouTube - ‪Hitler does not want to work in Infosys, TCS, or Wipro‬&rlm;

Read those links. Read comments too to get more idea about what sort of **** happens in such companies.

I really hope the guy know some ground facts before he goes on such rants.

You go and first read *www.linkedin.com/in/susam (Linkedin profile of the guy). He worked in Infosys! You know better than him about Infosys?

xtremevicky709 said:
Whats the point again ? Do tell me ?

Who says Infi makes you learn a language in 3 days ? Do you even know how long there training is ?

And about the onsite , Which company do you work in ?

If you ask the article writer, then no use. If you ask me, i am telling you my opinion, that if you have confidence that you can learn a PL within a short span of time, shows your passion and eagerness towards the PL so you obviously will not work in service oriented companies like Infy or Wipro.
This is what i intend to say.

javin said:
Yes, the training is 1.5 months to 3 months long where you are taught 15 to 20 technologies. How much time do you get to learn each technology then? Do the math yourself.

You get the answer, no as he said....

Ha ha

. Sissy old girls .

What do you expect them to teach you ? Spoon feed you ? Give you homework and ask them how your love life is ?

Corporate culture demands that you need to learn on your own pick up stuff from people already working there . This is a self grooming industry and talking about the guy who worked in infosys and does not know how many engg do they hire and give random numbers then he needs to look at what he writes.

I am not going to argue with some lot of this as there is no point in saying this but Stop crying and cribbling about everything !

Be it college , job , goverment , the country .

J

xtremevicky709 said:
Ha ha . Sissy old girls .

Very clearly you are a troll. But by looking your post count (324) I am confused how you haven't learnt the basic netiquette here. Oh, your twitter profile explains it.

*twitter.com/xtremevicky and your bio description is:

"A Manc working in Accenture

"

Now I understand why you are posting clueless comments and why have no idea of what the author is talking about and what we are talking about.

What do you expect them to teach you ? Spoon feed you ? Give you homework and ask them how your love life is ?

And very clearly you haven't understood articles and comments. Read the article again. Read the reply of furious_gamer. He has answered this already. Nobody is talking about what they should do. Everyone is talking about where an engineer should join - those companies or startups?

Furious_gamer also explained -

"if you have confidence that you can learn a PL within a short span of time, shows your passion and eagerness towards the PL so you obviously will not work in service oriented companies like Infy or Wipro."

Corporate culture demands that you need to learn on your own pick up stuff from people already working there . This is a self grooming industry and talking about the guy who worked in infosys and does not know how many engg do they hire and give random numbers then he needs to look at what he writes.

I have worked in Infosys too. I agree with that guy. Somehow you are arrogant as well as ignorant who thinks that he is wrong even though you have never worked in Infosys and he has and I have. Also read the comments in the article and the other links I have given. If you read them you will multiple people from Infosys, Wipro, etc. giving facts in support of the article. So please do your groundwork before posting bullsh1t comments.

I am not going to argue with some lot of this as there is no point in saying this but Stop crying and cribbling about everything !

Nobody is crying and cribbing. You are just not able to understand simple facts. Yes, please stop arguing about things you don't understand. Leave Accenture. Join a real engineering company. Then may be you will understand why a fresher should never join Infosys, TCS, Wipro, Accenture, Cognizant, etc. You are the only person I can see in this whole thread who is cribbing about the article. Others are discussing facts.

xtremevicky709 said:
Infi training is the best in India. #FACHT

why??

Your last word is the Irony of your post.

See , I ask you a question ? Why should A fresher not join these companies ?

2 : The author pointed about the number of engg the company has . More than what he suggested . He just gave a random number which is bonkers.

3 : My company has flaws like everything else ! But i dont tell people looking to learn to turn there back away from Accenture as the working culture here and learning opportunities are immense .

4 : The Author says

One can find engineering problems in these organizations but no trace of engineering.

. How is that relevant ? When you are the owner of the company and you want things to be done then the textbook wont be the one who will get the Job done . Big difference in what you read and what you have to do . As they say Real World is very different.

5. How much should a good software user earn?

You have any idea how much does a software engg in US earn ? We get paid sh1t compared to what they are paid . I also say Accenture has one of the best work culture but that can be different in place to place , project to project .

6. Just because you code well , does not mean you will be sent onsite . Again there are flaws but there are simple and working ways how you can go to onsite.

New start-ups come up every year. Software companies which develop famous and successful products are more likely to have them. Some good examples are Adobe, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Phoenix, RSA, etc.

How many these companies hire ? Will you be able to get a job ? Let yourself go , How many will be able to get the job there ?

I am not trolling nor I am in any delusions . Ground Reality for a average fresher is different . Try to live in the real world and that article dose not talk about facts . It talks about a certain individual who is working in the wrong industry if he wants to apply Engg skills .

ico said:
why??

I tell you ' Why ' .

Infi does train on multiple platforms . You will know a lot about a lot of basic things then you can ever learn in TCS . I am not commenting on Wipro !

In Accenture , The trainers were external and they had no interest in what the people were doing when they are teaching . They were just filling there pockets .

In Infi, Atleast the trainer makes the effort to make you learn something .

Just my 2 cents .

J

LOL xtremevicky. Now you make me laugh. Please leave Accenture and join a good company. Your last comment is the most bullsh1t comment i have read.

xtremevicky709 said:
Your last word is the Irony of your post.
In Infi, Atleast the trainer makes the effort to make you learn something .

Just my 2 cents .

I will prove all your comment is bullsh1t by this one example. Infy also uses external trainers. Plus they teach wrong things. So please do your groundwork before posting bullsh1t comments.

If you want to come out of your delusion leave Accenture and join a better company like google or microsoft. If you can't do it why are you commenting on this article. This article and discussion is not meant for losers like you who are stuck in a crappy company. This is written in the article. See.

*blog.susam.in/2011/05/infosys-tcs-or-wipro.html

ALERT: If you are not interested in making a career in engineering, lack the confidence to do so, or you are very content with working for one of these three companies for reasons that are valid to you, you may stop reading this and go back to what you were doing before landing on this page."

let's have a healthy discussion instead of going personal.

ico said:
why??

He is talking about ze Indian standards of best I would guess.

One should never become so personally attached to organizations that they reach a point where they have to write articles of this sort.

Just keep it 8 hour / day. 5 days.

Most of the stuff he wrote, are quite obvious and pertinent to most organizations. Typical "Indianization" on a US template.

J

asingh said:
One should never become so personally attached to organizations that they reach a point where they have to write articles of this sort.

Just keep it 8 hour / day. 5 days.

Most of the stuff he wrote, are quite obvious and pertinent to most organizations. Typical "Indianization" on a US template.

How? In Infosys it is a rule to work for 9.5 hours per day whether you have any work to do or not. otherwise HR action is taken against you.

Don't you think freshers need to know the truth before they join an organization?

Can you learn a new programming language in just 3 days? If your answer is "no", you shouldn't join one of these organizations. If your answer is "yes", you shouldn't join one of these organizations.

Well it is true that 3 Days to learn a Programming Language is absurd , but training is not something which will make you expert after end of course , it will just be a class for the different modules in the language , it is upto you to practice and indulge and finally become the expert in the programming language by yourrself in time.

@javin
Ofcourse.

@asingh : It is not for those who live with dreams of joining these BIG companies. This is for the ones who is very passionate to do something and innovate new things.

@xtremevicky

Going too personal is not good for any of us here.

BTW You are not working for Infi nor you had, so how come you know everything about Infi. The trainer part, that was a good one...

See you like Accenture and you are well planned on what to do next with your career, that's different thing. Because you choose a company then you chasing behind the career. But i chose a career and looking for a job. This is why people like us ended up mostly in product based companies. Even the article writer now ended up with RSA.

So clearly the article is not for you or your kind of people and as mentioned by javin, read the disclaimer.

and about salary, we all know that we are underpaid. Aren't we? But still due to more than adequate work force, if you deny an offer, there are 1000's of people out there to accept it and this is the reason still now we are not getting what the guy in US getting.

mitraark said:
Well it is true that 3 Days to learn a Programming Language is absurd , but training is not something which will make you expert after end of course , it will just be a class for the different modules in the language , it is upto you to practice and indulge and finally become the expert in the programming language by yourrself in time.

That was meant to be sarcastic example. Read my prev post...

@xtremevicky709,

I too work for Accenture, and had worked / trained in TCS. And one thing I know for sure is, you are really being a troll.

We all carry our feelings for current / previous employers, but we don't rant about it in public. And your good previous employer doesn't make other's employer bad / bullsh!t.

Get some life dude. If you don't, I fear mods will take some actions against you.

javin said:
Nobody is crying and cribbing. You are just not able to understand simple facts. Yes, please stop arguing about things you don't understand. Leave Accenture. Join a real engineering company. Then may be you will understand why a fresher should never join Infosys, TCS, Wipro, Accenture, Cognizant, etc. You are the only person I can see in this whole thread who is cribbing about the article. Others are discussing facts.

If it was that simple to join any company of our choice , everyone would join a "real engineering company" ... I feel someone who has worked in a company reserves the right to speak something about it more than any outsider.. you are deameaning these companies in every post , as if you have worked in everyone of them , and suggesting Microsoft Google as worthy places to work , any validation you have for your word other than similar blogs and articles .... Infosys, TCS, Wipro, Accenture , they are the top hiring IT COmpanies for a reason , increasing number of fresher intake does not necessarily make it equivalent of being a cheap company.

I for one , know that i will most probably end up in one these companies in two years time. "This is for the ones who is very passionate to do something and innovate new things." , yeah guess i am not , flunking Communications paper

So i guess i am going to be a "loser who are stuck in a crappy company".

mitraark said:
If it was that simple to join any company of our choice , everyone would join a "real engineering company" ... I feel someone who has worked in a company reserves the right to speak something about it more than any outsider.. you are deameaning these companies in every post , as if you have worked in everyone of them , and suggesting Microsoft Google as worthy places to work , any validation you have for your word other than similar blogs and articles .... Infosys, TCS, Wipro, Accenture , they are the top hiring IT COmpanies for a reason , increasing number of fresher intake does not necessarily make it equivalent of being a cheap company.

No one ever said these things. For once, please read all the posts and reply. We already clearly mentioned that, IT IS NOT a good choice for fresher, if he wants to apply his engg skills or to do some real coding. Period.

If you know about these companies and you join with them, it's upto you and no one will stop. But this article is for someone wants to do something innovative and kinda stuff, who is seeking advice. Got it.

J

mitraark said:
If it was that simple to join any company of our choice , everyone would join a "real engineering company" ... I feel someone who has worked in a company reserves the right to speak something about it more than any outsider.. you are deameaning these companies in every post , as if you have worked in everyone of them , and suggesting Microsoft Google as worthy places to work , any validation you have for your word other than similar blogs and articles .... Infosys, TCS, Wipro, Accenture , they are the top hiring IT COmpanies for a reason , increasing number of fresher intake does not necessarily make it equivalent of being a cheap company.

I for one , know that i will most probably end up in one these companies in two years time. "This is for the ones who is very passionate to do something and innovate new things." , yeah guess i am not , flunking Communications paper So i guess i am going to be a "loser who are stuck in a crappy company".

If you know for sure that you will end up in those then this article is not for you. Read the article carefully for heaven's sake people!

I am not demeaning the companies. I am saying that if someone is confident and good at engineering he must try to get into adobe, amazon, etc. many people like me who thought infosys, tcs, were good company and joined it regretted. then we left and joined better companies.

i have not worked in everyone of them. i have worked in infosys. my friends have worked in tcs, wipro, accenture, cognizant, etc. i know from them that the condition is same everywhere. but the condition is vastly better in adobe, amazon, ...

furious_gamer said:
No one ever said these things. For once, please read all the posts and reply.

I quoted .

furious_gamer said:
We already clearly mentioned that, IT IS NOT a good choice for fresher, if he wants to apply his engg skills or to do some real coding. Period. If you know about these companies and you join with them, it's upto you and no one will stop. But this article is for someone wants to do something innovative and kinda stuff, who is seeking advice. Got it.

I am sorry but i am a pessimist , and saying that "being passionate enough" can land you in good Companies like Microsoft and Google is a little farfetched. Even in good colleges only a few get selected by such companies. As much as i know like everyone else , companies like TCS Infosys just sweeps away the bootom feeders of a class , and are to be avoided during placements at all costs , i have somewhat accepted that it will probably be where i [ and quite a few others ] end up and have to climb up from there , no point in completely demeaning them.

you guys are getting emotional on this one. the blog shows the immaturity of the person. he has some opinions of his own and posted it. you are free to like or dislike it. Well I agreed to only two (Culture and Onsite) points mentioned by him.

@xtremevicky709: why are you so adamant on proving Infosys training as the best in industry? What's the point? I left argument in other thread because I don't feed trolling or I am not here to quench someone's ego.

Moving ahead, on that blog. Those who are passing out from engineering colleges really have a choice? According to Nasscom 350,000 students graduate in engineering. Do they have many choices to select a career from? I do not think so. Most of the Civil, Mechanical, Electrical engineering students also join software industry being unaware of computers (I mean knowledge of microprocessors, OOP, Data Structure etc) and basic programming knowledge.

Are there enough startups around which can make use of these "engineers"? Gyaan dena sabse asaan kaam hai is desh main!
I have searched for a good job in bangalore for 4 whole months! Couldn't find any startup to employ me. What were my options? To keep looking for a "good" place where I could enhance and make use of my engineering skills or join any organization which is providing me a job. I had to be practical.

I know that the blogger has started his post by "This blog post is not about how these companies feed the stomachs of lakhs of people." but I think that he got bored of his job (as most of people in this industry) and wrote his mind off.

J

gagan007 said:
you guys are getting emotional on this one. the blog shows the immaturity of the person.

And this comment of yours is very unemotional, no?

How would you feel if I now say that your comment shows the immaturity of yours?

You guys don't even read the article carefully. THE ARTICLE IS NOT MEANT FOR THOSE WHO CAN NOT GET A JOB IN PLACES OTHER THAN INFOSYS, TCS, WIPRO!

For heaven's sake READ THE ARTICLE CAREFULLY. THE DISCLAIMER IN THE ARTICLE says that it is addressed towards only those people who have options to join better companies but they might fall prey to the hype of Infosys, TCS, Wipro!

mitraark said:
I am sorry but i am a pessimist , and saying that "being passionate enough" can land you in good Companies like Microsoft and Google is a little farfetched. Even in good colleges only a few get selected by such companies.

From Susam Pal: Infosys, TCS, or Wipro? =>

ALERT: If you are not interested in making a career in engineering, lack the confidence to do so, or you are very content with working for one of these three companies for reasons that are valid to you, you may stop reading this and go back to what you were doing before landing on this page.

I have read the article completely.

@gagan007

no Startup's in B'lore. Are you kidding me?

and no is is getting emotional. we are having a discussion here and everyone is trying hard to prove their point.

FYI, it is not some random guy who posted something out of his mind. If you see the comment, you can accept the fact that most of the things blogger mentioned was true.

About getting emotional, I was pointing at xtreme guy and javin, not you

I did struggle for 4 months buddy. No one would take me!

And I am not saying it was some random guy. I have said that he is from the same industry and that's why he has written all this. We all feel same way, don't we?

Microsoft took 3 students from our college this year , all of whom were exceptional. And by exceptional i mean they worked their asses off so hard that other people would be scared. Now maybe i lack the confidence to join such big companies , but its it reasonable to give such exaggerated hopes to students who will be future CSE / IT Engineers ?

mitraark said:
Microsoft took 3 students from our college this year , all of whom were exceptional. And by exceptional i mean they worked their asses off so hard that other people would be scared. Now maybe i lack the confidence to join such big companies , but its it reasonable to give such exaggerated hopes to students who will be future CSE / IT Engineers ?

It is not exaggerated, just the truth. Don't lack confidence or at least from now on.

How am I being a Troll ? Everybody who has used this do give me a explanation !

About Infi training , My best friend is in Infi .

Ok some basic points I am trying to point out that the author has not taken care of. I will go ahead with an example :

--> A average Indian guy who has done his engg who has no interest in MBA and is a good student but not extraordinary . I guess that is 60% off the class . Now , He gets a job from Infi and TCS. He celebrates it and is happy about it Until he comes across this article . What would you advice him ? join Google ? Infi or TCS are poor ?

I RESPECT what the author said but people who have finished engg and looking for advice to join TCS or Infi will take this article personally and wont be too optimistic about joining eighter company.

I am not a troll but I have seen my juniors careers ruined because of bad advice and improper articles .

Still Explain to me How am i being a Troll ? :O

Requesting mods to lock the thread as things are getting personal.

J

xtremevicky709 said:
I am trying to point out that the author has not taken care of. I will go ahead with an example: A average Indian guy who has done his engg who has no interest in MBA and is a good student but not extraordinary . I guess that is 60% off the class . Now , He gets a job from Infi and TCS. He celebrates it and is happy about it Until he comes across this article . What would you advice him ? join Google ? Infi or TCS are poor ?

Author has taken care of this. You have not read the article carefully. Read this part again.

ALERT: If you are not interested in making a career in engineering, lack the confidence to do so, or you are very content with working for one of these three companies for reasons that are valid to you, you may stop reading this and go back to what you were doing before landing on this page.

xtremevicky709 said:
How am I being a Troll ? Still Explain to me How am i being a Troll ? :O

You are being a troll because you start the discussion by calling other people old sissie girls. Trolls do this. Respectable people don't do this.

xtremevicky709 said:
About Infi training , My best friend is in Infi .

You are also not giving any good reason to prove that one should join Infosys. Saying that your best friend works in Infosys is not a good reason because your best friend is still in Infosys. it is possible for him to say good things about infosys because he doesn't want to accept that he works in a bad company because of ego reasons.

And what if your best friend works in infosys. Author has worked in Infosys. I worked in Infosys. So many comments in the links I gave have worked in infy, tcs, wipro. When they are saying that it is a bad place then who is your friend? Now the author is working in RSA. he has seen both sides of the software world. who do you think will know more? Your friend who is still stuck in infosys or the author who has worked in infosys and RSA. If you don't know about RSA you should search about it on the internet to know that it is the best cryptography company out there.

Garbage said:
@xtremevicky709,

I too work for Accenture, and had worked / trained in TCS. And one thing I know for sure is, you are really being a troll.

We all carry our feelings for current / previous employers, but we don't rant about it in public. And your good previous employer doesn't make other's employer bad / bullsh!t.

Get some life dude. If you don't, I fear mods will take some actions against you.

javin said:
Author has taken care of this. You have not read the article carefully. Read this part again.

ALERT: If you are not interested in making a career in engineering, lack the confidence to do so, or you are very content with working for one of these three companies for reasons that are valid to you, you may stop reading this and go back to what you were doing before landing on this page.

You are being a troll because you start the discussion by calling other people old sissie girls. Trolls do this. Respectable people don't do this.

You are also not giving any good reason to prove that one should join Infosys. Saying that your best friend works in Infosys is not a good reason because your best friend is still in Infosys. it is possible for him to say good things about infosys because he doesn't want to accept that he works in a bad company because of ego reasons.

And what if your best friend works in infosys. Author has worked in Infosys. Now he is working in RSA. he has seen both sides of the software world. who do you think will know more? Your friend who is still stuck in infosys or the author who has worked in infosys and RSA. If you don't know about RSA you should search about it on the internet to know that it is the best cryptography company out there.

So what are you implying that everyone should join RSA ? and those why have jobs at Infi should leave and sit at home because it is not as good as RSA ?

I dont find the need of the author to slate Infi just because it is not as good as RSA , Google or Microsoft !

Answer this : If a Engg gets a placement in Infi and Tcs and not at RSA or Google then what do you expect him to do ? Not work ? Be unemployed ?

Garbage said:
Requesting mods to lock the thread as things are getting personal.

Sigh, it would be dissapointing if it ends that way. Seemed a quite informative discussion.

J

xtremevicky709 said:
So what are you implying that everyone should join RSA ? and those why have jobs at Infi should leave and sit at home because it is not as good as RSA ?

No! God! What is wrong with you! Can't you even read simple English? It means that if you can not leave Infosys, stay in Infosys. The article is not meant for you.

Answer this : If a Engg gets a placement in Infi and Tcs and not at RSA or Google then what do you expect him to do ? Not work ? Be unemployed ?

Please read the disclaimer carefully. It doesn't say you have to stay unemployed. It says that the article is not useful to those who can not join RSA or Google. The article is useful to those who can.

Keeping this open. No more name calling. Troll and sissy girl type of name calling.

And here is one more dose:

My life in Accenture before startups - swombat.com on startups

I will post directly the conclusion from that post:

Conclusion

My advice to people who are hesitating between startups and a company like Accenture is: don't worry too much about it.

Big, prestigious corporations have their share of benefits. Accenture is probably not a bad choice amongst the selection of corporate masters. If you've got the bug for entrepreneurship, chances are a few years in a large corporation won't distract you from it (and they might even strengthen your resolve). If you feel like you can start a business right away, you can try that too.

But don't stress about it. You're not making the most important decision in your life. There'll be many chances to adjust the shot if you decide corporate life is not for you. Many entrepreneurs get started later in life, after having held steady jobs for decades.

If it's in your blood, it's in your blood.

javin said:
No! God! What is wrong with you! Can't you even read simple English? It means that if you can not leave Infosys, stay in Infosys. The article is not meant for you.

Please read the disclaimer carefully. It doesn't say you have to stay unemployed. It says that the article is not useful to those who can not join RSA or Google. The article is useful to those who can.

I just have on answer to you !

The author says for those who want to join eighter Infi or TCS ? Now you say that he wants them to join RSA or Google !

If you have a offer from Google then you wont even consider Infi or TCS . The original point is not to join any of those .

javin said:
How? In Infosys it is a rule to work for 9.5 hours per day whether you have any work to do or not. otherwise HR action is taken against you.

Don't you think freshers need to know the truth before they join an organization?

I meant it in the figurative sense. Doing one full work-cycle per day. Disconnecting from office and going back.

Also you had commented about the disclaimer. Who reads moot disclaimers in today's world. Be it movies,blogs, cigarette boxes.

See things are not so simple and easy as S.Pal states it with his figurative language. I wondered what he would have thought if he would have read an article when he was starting his job. How easy is it for the 1000++ engineers we create each year to get a job in in the "good" companies listed out in the blog. Who does not dream to do well and perform real engineering queries / analysis. Everyone. Probably 1/10000 people competing engineering really do it for the heck of it. So most can read that blog. It sounds like he is a big snob who has made it big (he seems like an intelligent guy though, read his other posts) and archaic now, or started a successful start up. Or he is quite far from the reality of life.

Infy, Wipro, and TCS are HUUGE companies. They do a lot more than what is stated in the blog. They readily take in freshers (young adults who have completed 4 years of college, have huge college loans to pay - off, middle class/lower middle class families, parents cannot afford any more expenditure) and give them a livelihood. But he does mention that his blog is NOT about what all I mentioned above.

Let us learn to call a spade a spade. Things are not so grandiose in India and the harsh reality is out there. Either one grasps it, or can sit at homes and apply to start up, Google, RSA, M$.

Bad job is better than no job.

J

xtremevicky709 said:
I just have on answer to you !

The author says for those who want to join eighter Infi or TCS ? Now you say that he wants them to join RSA or Google !

If you have a offer from Google then you wont even consider Infi or TCS . The original point is not to join any of those .

If you agree that somebody should try for Google instead of trying for Infy or TCS if he has the ability what are you arguing about?

asingh said:
I meant it in the figurative sense. Doing one full work-cycle per day. Disconnecting from office and going back.

Also you had commented about the disclaimer. Who reads moot disclaimers in today's world. Be it movies,blogs, cigarette boxes.

See things are not so simple and easy as S.Pal states it with his figurative language. I wondered what he would have thought if he would have read an article when he was starting his job. How easy is it for the 1000++ engineers we create each year to get a job in in the "good" companies listed out in the blog. Who does not dream to do well and perform real engineering queries / analysis. Everyone. Probably 1/10000 people competing engineering really do it for the heck of it. So most can read that blog. It sounds like he is a big snob who has made it big (he seems like an intelligent guy though, read his other posts) and archaic now, or started a successful start up. Or he is quite far from the reality of life.

Infy, Wipro, and TCS are HUUGE companies. They do a lot more than what is stated in the blog. They readily take in freshers (young adults who have completed 4 years of college, have huge college loans to pay - off, middle class/lower middle class families, parents cannot afford any more expenditure) and give them a livelihood. But he does mention that his blog is NOT about what all I mentioned above.

Let us learn to call a spade a spade. Things are not so grandiose in India and the harsh reality is out there. Either one grasps it, or can sit at homes and apply to start up, Google, RSA, M$.

Bad job is better than no job.

Harsh reality of Life . You eighter start up with them or end having no job for years .

javin said:
If you agree that somebody should try for Google instead of trying for Infy or TCS if he has the ability what are you arguing about?

Then what is this article about ? You should join only companies like Google , RSA , etc and as a fresher .

What are you arguing about ? What do you support in that article ? That you as a fresher should join Google ?

J

asingh said:
Also you had commented about the disclaimer. Who reads moot disclaimers in today's world. Be it movies,blogs, cigarette boxes.

I did. many people did.

See things are not so simple and easy as S.Pal states it with his figurative language. I wondered what he would have thought if he would have read an article when he was starting his job.

i don't know about s.pal. But if i had got this blog before i started my career i would be very thankful. did you read the comments in the article? some college students have thanked s.pal. for the enlightening post and decided to look for better opportunities.

if someone had writtten an article like this when i started my career i will have searched for better jobs too. I didn't know a lot about the IT world. so i fell for the Infy hype.

How easy is it for the 1000++ engineers we create each year to get a job in in the "good" companies listed out in the blog. Who does not dream to do well and perform real engineering queries / analysis. Everyone. Probably 1/10000 people competing engineering really do it for the heck of it.

This article can save the careers of that 1 of 10000 people.

So most can read that blog. It sounds like he is a big snob who has made it big (he seems like an intelligent guy though, read his other posts) and archaic now, or started a successful start up. Or he is quite far from the reality of life.

Ha ha!

Infy, Wipro, and TCS are HUUGE companies. They do a lot more than what is stated in the blog. They readily take in freshers (young adults who have completed 4 years of college, have huge college loans to pay - off, middle class/lower middle class families, parents cannot afford any more expenditure) and give them a livelihood. But he does mention that his blog is NOT about what all I mentioned above.

Don't guess.

Read the comments in that article.

Read the comments in HackerStreet.India | Infosys, TCS, or Wipro? and Hacker News | Infosys, TCS or Wipro?

Let us learn to call a spade a spade. Things are not so grandiose in India and the harsh reality is out there. Either one grasps it, or can sit at homes and apply to start up, Google, RSA, M$.

so who is asking everyone to apply for startups google, rsa, microsoft? those who can but is falling for infy hype like i did many years ago, they should apply.

Bad job is better than no job.

that's a motto of losers. so i disagree.

xtremevicky709 said:
Harsh reality of Life . You eighter start up with them or end having no job for years .

Then what is this article about ? You should join only companies like Google , RSA , etc and as a fresher .

What are you arguing about ? What do you support in that article ? That you as a fresher should join Google ?

No. For god's sake learn to READ & UNDERSTAND! I am saying it one more time. Read it very carefully.

If you are capable enough to apply for good companies then don't fall for the hype of Infosys TCS Wipro. Try for better companies like Adobe, Microsoft, etc.

Are you kidding me ?

Why would anyone not apply for Google if given a change . The article says how bad Infi and TCS are but the fact is most Engg will end up there .

If you still think they are hypped companies then why even bother to live in India ? Go abroad !

I am gonna stop arguing with you ! There is a different world out there !

J

xtremevicky709 said:
Are you kidding me ?

Why would anyone not apply for Google if given a change . The article says how bad Infi and TCS are but the fact is most Engg will end up there .

If you still think they are hypped companies then why even bother to live in India ? Go abroad !

Why are you asking me why anyone will not apply for Google if given a change. when did i say that?

I am saying if you have good knowledge, instead of falling for infy hype, try and apply for adobe, microsoft or some good startup. Many people like me are lazy to not apply and fall for the hype. Why can't you understand a simple thing i am trying to say?

Later when a senior jolted me out of my delusion, i took my career seriously and applied for a big company. I got through. I am very happy now. if I had been thinking like you "how can I apply to a big company when I am just in Infy?" i will have been still stuck in infy.

yes, many engineers will end in Infy or TCS. so what?

i live in India because i work for a very nice company in India which is not like Infy, TCS, Accenture. Okay?

Don't troll by asking why I do something. Stick to the topic.

One last post :

" Stop using the word troll "

You are trolling with the fact that one should join RSA Google and all blah blah companies ! How many engg pass out every year and how many jobs there companies create . I am still going to brand the article as a fail as it only targets a particular section of people !

I am not going to advice people who have jobs with there companies to read this and end up making a fool of themselves .

If it were for Infi , TCS and Wipro . How many people would be employed in our country ?

J

xtremevicky709 said:
One last post :

You are trolling with the fact that one should join RSA Google and all blah blah companies ! How many engg pass out every year and how many jobs there companies create . I am still going to brand the article as a fail as it only targets a particular section of people !

and you are trolling by calling names and asking me why i am in india? Why I am in india is none of your business.

Oh, so a blog post written for engineers is a fail. So you think all technical papers related to web written for web designers is also fail? Man! Your arguments make no sense.

I am not going to advice people who have jobs with there companies to read this and end up making a fool of themselves .

Definitely. if you have so much trouble handling the truth, you shouldn't read such articles.

If it were for Infi , TCS and Wipro . How many people would be employed in our country ?

if no infy, tcs. many people would be unemployed. do you understand that it is not the point of the debate. the point of the debate is about people who are stuck in infy, tcs but are capable of getting better jobs. let the others join infy, tcs, wipro. i have no problems with that. but i hv a problem if someone like me who was capable of getting a better job is stuck in infy, tcs, wipro because he doesn't know the real world of software out there.

javin said:
Don't troll by asking why I do something. Stick to the topic.

keep it clean. we are here to have a constructive discussion.

J

ico said:
keep it clean. we are here to have a constructive discussion.

how it is a consctructive discussion if someone starts a debate by calling names, asks questions about my personal decisions like why i am in India and brings points in the debate that are not even related to the debate.

who is saying that india, wipro is bad? nobody is saying that. who is saying someone should be unemployed?

all we are saying is that don't be complacent if you got a job in infy, tcs, wipro. you can be worth much more. you will know whether you can join adobe, microsoft only if you stop to be complacent and try.

I am not going to post anymore .

I am not sorry for what I wrote . I still believe that real world works differently . I am not calling people names . I am calling the article a complete " Piece of Nonsense " If you still think I am going to agree with you then dont try hard. Those were my views and they will be.

J

xtremevicky709 said:
I am not going to post anymore .

I am not sorry for what I wrote . I still believe that real world works differently . I am not calling people names . I am calling the article a complete " Piece of Nonsense " If you still think I am going to agree with you then dont try hard. Those were my views and they will be.

I already thought your last post was over. Now a new post again?

You are not the only one who lives in the real world. I live in the real world too. All the commenters in that article and the Hacker News article also live in real world.

Don't think you are the only one who lives in real world. I don't expect you to agree with me because you keep repeating the same question again and again without trying to understand what others are saying.

javin said:
how it is a consctructive discussion if someone starts a debate by calling names, asks questions about my personal decisions like why i am in India and brings points in the debate that are not even related to the debate.

I guess you were the first guy to use the word "trolling" after asingh's post #42. Either reply politely (multiple cross quoting isn't _always_ necessary) or just agree to disagree and move on. Same applies to xtremevicky as well.

xtremevicky709 said:
One last post :

" Stop using the word troll "

You are trolling with the fact that one should join RSA Google and all blah blah companies ! How many engg pass out every year and how many jobs there companies create .

For gods sake he never mentioned that. If your motto is to take care of family and to settle, joining these companies is a good decision. But if you are keen on your career and want to improve it, just go for other companies, gain as much knowledge as you can and try for big shots like RSA, Google etc.

xtremevicky709 said:
I am still going to brand the article as a fail as it only targets a particular section of people !

I am happy that you say that. You got the answer yourself.

Exactly, it is targeting only a particular group of people who are passionate about what they are doing. See things might not what we are seeing. If you love working in those companies and if YOU think you can shape up your career then it is good for YOU. This article aims at people who think the other way.

xtremevicky709 said:
I am not going to advice people who have jobs with there companies to read this and end up making a fool of themselves .

If it were for Infi , TCS and Wipro . How many people would be employed in our country ?

No one will throw away their job/offers by simply reading an article (apart from the target audience). If they do so, then they are FOOLS. (No offense meant)

Yes, they are mass recruiters and if you are damn lucky, you will get good domain and challenging job. Otherwise, you'll end up in service/maintanence and rot in the office.

S

I am quite disheartened to see how xtremevicky709 has hijacked the whole discussion with his misleading posts. None of his posts are making sense. Why is he arguing about how many people would go jobless without Infosys, TCS and the likes?

Nobody is calling them bad companies. Everyone knows these companies give a lot of jobs. Even the author has written of the article has written that "They are probably good at keeping their customers happy." A company is not bad or good. What we should worry about is whether it is "right".

There are two possible answers.

Answer 1:

Is TCS right for me?
No.

Why?
Because I love playing with distributed systems and writing algorithms to parallelize search and recommendation systems. There is not much chance to do all this in TCS.

Is Amazon the right company for me?
Yes, Amazon Chennai has got some good engineering work. They don't allow freshers to work on distributed systems from day 1. But once I get into the company, I will do good work and find my path into good distributed systems projects in Amazon. Switching teams in Amazon is also easier. They allow to change team every few years. In TCS, changing a team is very hard. The culture of TCS is such that the HR and management randomly allocates people in whatever team they want. they are not flexible about later team changing. So, i will apply to Amazon and not get into TCS even if i have got an offer from TCS.

Answer 2:

Is TCS the right company for me?
Yes.

Why?
Because I am not a hardcore techie. But I know how to do programming. TCS will be comfortable place for me where I can do programming but I don't have to do hardcore techie job. I am not very keen on changing teams. I am ready to work on whatever project they give me. So I will join TCS.

Cheers mate !

sureshbatra said:
I am quite disheartened to see how xtremevicky has hijacked the whole discussion with his misleading posts. None of his posts are making sense. Why is he arguing about how many people would go jobless without Infosys, TCS and the likes?

Nobody is calling them bad companies. Everyone knows these companies give a lot of jobs. Even the author has written of the article has written that "They are probably good at keeping their customers happy." A company is not bad or good. What we should worry about is whether it is "right".

There are two possible answers.

Answer 1:

Is TCS right for me?
No.

Why?
Because I love playing with distributed systems and writing algorithms to parallelize search and recommendation systems. There is not much chance to do all this in TCS.

Is Amazon the right company for me?
Yes. I will try to get a job there.

Answer 2:

Is TCS the right company for me?
Yes.

Why?
Because I am not a hardcore techie. But I know how to do programming. TCS will be comfortable place for me where I can do programming but I don't have to do hardcore techie job.

Join here for the right reasons

javin said:
I did. many people did.

Are you dumb in the head or what. Or does everything have to be explained in crystal. I meant "how many people read them, and agree, and then do what the disclaimer says".

javin said:
i don't know about s.pal. But if i had got this blog before i started my career i would be very thankful. did you read the comments in the article? some college students have thanked s.pal. for the enlightening post and decided to look for better opportunities.

I read each and every comment in that post, till around 2:00 PM today. When ever someone stands up and gives gyan, the receivers will stand up and give them accolades. It is extremely rare for someone to say, that the three companies did not help them. How does one even reach the interview door for companies if they have not built up work experience in other such "bad" companies per say. Just as many who thanked him, bi$$$hed him out too. I wish how many will get up today and resign from these companies reading the blog, or withdraw their potential candidature. OR will they get another opportunity (what ever it may be) and then resign with a smug, and update Pal's blog. Hypocrites, and so is Pal one.

javin said:
if someone had writtten an article like this when i started my career i will have searched for better jobs too. I didn't know a lot about the IT world. so i fell for the Infy hype.

You got what you deserved at that time. Do not bend the past for present situations.

javin said:
This article can save the careers of that 1 of 10000 people.

Or ruin it for the rest of 10000 - 1.

javin said:
Ha ha!

Please elaborate..?

javin said:
Don't guess.

Read the comments in that article.

Read the comments in HackerStreet.India | Infosys, TCS, or Wipro? and Hacker News | Infosys, TCS or Wipro?

I read each and every comment. And came to my views seeing a holistic view of India's engineer graduates, job opportunities, their skill sets, salary structures, firm fitment, hiring policies, and career benefits.

javin said:
so who is asking everyone to apply for startups google, rsa, microsoft? those who can but is falling for infy hype like i did many years ago, they should apply.

If you flip his blog around, this is what he is saying.

javin said:
that's a motto of losers. so i disagree.

Please do not say this to someone about bad job vs. no job, who is self supporting, does not have parents backing him financially and has monetary obligations in the world. Even sitting for 15 days LWP/NP can jack someone so hard, that they are close to litigation and or criminal proceedings. Money does not see all this.

javin said:
No. For god's sake learn to READ & UNDERSTAND! I am saying it one more time. Read it very carefully.

If you are capable enough to apply for good companies then don't fall for the hype of Infosys TCS Wipro. Try for better companies like Adobe, Microsoft, etc.

We all can read. And mind your tone.

And stop using the "troll" world. You have been warned.

Plus if people read from his blog, that people do not realize what is out there, they are not be driven to correct potentials, and / or there are better opportunities out there, specially as a fresher, this is not a correct way to tell them the truth. More like propaganda his blog.

This guy will be our next Chetan Bhagat.

S

xtremevicky709 said:
Cheers mate !

Join here for the right reasons

Wow! I cracked it. I made him understand the meaning of the article! Congratulate me. :-o

No one is a loser. We get what we choose. If someone thinks, it makes him a loser working in companies like Wipro, TCS, Infosys; I pity them. Working in some company doesn't make you better/smarter than anyone else. I believe everyone has got more or less same amount of brains (intelligence), it is the choice they make that makes the difference.

I, for one, completely disagree with the article/blog. If someone likes to sit at his place and code whole day long what's the difference if he does in company A or B. I understand there are many benefits of product based companies but they are relative. I, in the other thread, agreed to a post which said product based companies are better but I like it here, that's why I am continuing here because I am getting handsome money. In future if I get a better chance I will move and grab that. Can anyone dare say people from product based companies do not join service based companies? It happens all the time. We all know that the bottom line of all this is money. You work hard for job interview so that you can impress and then bargain the organization for better incentive.

In India, people are getting jobs in IT so easily (even if they do not deserve it) that they think lowly of it and that's a fact. You must have heard/read so many jokes floating around about software engineers. They have ample time to write such articles.

If you really want to achieve something, then please do something for this society and this country, working in "Google" is not an achievement in my humble opinion.

BTW who are called "hardcore techie"?

sureshbatra said:
Wow! I cracked it. I made him understand the meaning of the article! Congratulate me.

I guess that was sarcastic comment. If not, man you are a genius. Enough...

sureshbatra said:
Wow! I cracked it. I made him understand the meaning of the article! Congratulate me.

No need to be oversmart. kthxbai.

gagan007 said:
BTW who are called "hardcore techie"?

For massaging the ego. Similar to elite, master, et cetera.

sureshbatra said:
Wow! I cracked it. I made him understand the meaning of the article! Congratulate me.

Why dont you write a book on it ?

S

asingh said:
Are you dumb in the head or what. Or does everything have to be explained in crystal. I meant "how many people read them, and agree, and then do what the disclaimer says".

I did too. ;-)

Disclaimers are small but important part of an article. Aren't they?

It would be unfair to the author to read the whole article and then b1tch about it even though it was not addressed to you. The article is targetted towards a very small select group of people and rightly so.

asingh said:
I wish how many will get up today and resign from these companies reading the blog, or withdraw their potential candidature. OR will they get another opportunity (what ever it may be) and then resign with a smug, and update Pal's blog. Hypocrites, and so is Pal one.

S. Pal has not asked anyone to resign. If people get up today and resign without any thinking then they are fools. He is simply writing about his mistake and his realizations and his advice to juniors who are worth a company better than Infy, TCS et al.

The author has clearly made it clear at the top of the article that if you are already happy with Infy, TCS the article should be ignored. But if you are disatisfied because you feel you can do better work than you are doing in Infy, TCS, then proceed and read.

So if someone is happy with Infy, TCS, just chill.

asingh said:
Plus if people read from his blog, that people do not realize what is out there, they are not be driven to correct potentials, and / or there are better opportunities out there, specially as a fresher, this is not a correct way to tell them the truth. More like propaganda his blog.

This guy will be our next Chetan Bhagat.

How? The author is not making the propaganda. People like you and me are making propaganda by talking about it, b|tching about it, hailing it, bla bla bla.

The author writes more posts on software engineering and mathematics. Why don't we discuss those posts?

Here is the truth. We all like controversies. We are suckers of controversies. So we just ignore the hundreds of useful algorithms and mathematics related posts and puzzles he has written in this blog and focus only on one post about a simple and honest career advice to young generation who are not happy in TCS because they can do better work. So who are the hypocrites? Is it the author or is it you & me? :-d

gagan007 said:
BTW who are called "hardcore techie"?

Someone who is more than a codemonkey. Someone who can create his own algorithms to solve problems instead of copy pasting code from internet.

Liverpool_fan said:
For massaging the ego. Similar to elite, master, et cetera.

See sun java forums and you can get the meaning for that. Seriously, not everybody is doing what you said.

S

asingh said:
Or ruin it for the rest of 10000 - 1.

The 10000 - 1 people have to be fools to read a blog and ruin their career especially when the disclaimer very specifically asks them to ignore the blog.

^^
I personally feel the disclaimer was but in bad taste to the blog, to sensationalize the blog. And he is in know position to advice freshers with so less experience.

His target audience caveat is also absolute fail, because it will actually strike a point (that too negative) with people who he never wished would read. The disclaimer guys.

Is it that hard to understand the mechanism here..?

By the way, when I opened the link from this page, I read his mathematical blogs first.

Found them more interesting.

A

gagan007 said:
No one is a loser. We get what we choose. If someone thinks, it makes him a loser working in companies like Wipro, TCS, Infosys; I pity them. Working in some company doesn't make you better/smarter than anyone else. I believe everyone has got more or less same amount of brains (intelligence), it is the choice they make that makes the difference.

I, for one, completely disagree with the article/blog. If someone likes to sit at his place and code whole day long what's the difference if he does in company A or B. I understand there are many benefits of product based companies but they are relative. I, in the other thread, agreed to a post which said product based companies are better but I like it here, that's why I am continuing here because I am getting handsome money. In future if I get a better chance I will move and grab that. Can anyone dare say people from product based companies do not join service based companies? It happens all the time. We all know that the bottom line of all this is money. You work hard for job interview so that you can impress and then bargain the organization for better incentive.

In India, people are getting jobs in IT so easily (even if they do not deserve it) that they think lowly of it and that's a fact. You must have heard/read so many jokes floating around about software engineers. They have ample time to write such articles.

If you really want to achieve something, then please do something for this society and this country, working in "Google" is not an achievement in my humble opinion.

BTW who are called "hardcore techie"?

Nicely pointed out

I have got placed in Accenture And TCS
And i am not worrying which company to join first .. The company which gives JL first will be my first company

One cannot forget that Bangalore ,Hyderabad etc are deemed as IT cities coz of these service oriented companies. There is no bad company, there is just bad attitude . If one is not happy with the company he/she is free to join a better company .. I think what majority of people does is blame the company but still remain in the company ..

If one has the potential, sky is the limit .

And to be frank companies like Microsoft, Amazon etc wont give weightage to freshers and if you are from a not so popular college and not from the specific branch like CS, IS for software companies etc then there is light chance of getting into it.

So what can one do?
Join a company in which he/she gets recruited learn and have some experience. Complete certifications if wanted and later try for these companies/ higher studies ..

First company choice is significant but surely NOT a turning point in life.
If one does mistake in choosing first company/domain ..he/she can rectify it by working hard and trying for better instead of trolling and saying "oh i made a bad choice and i am stuck with the servicing companies oh my god what a mistake i did blah blah" etc

T

If you know even at least 1-2 programming languages and its fundamental know-how, then I guess learning a new language is simply like learning new "syntax". Of course, some minor architectural changes here and there will of course be there, but I suppose the training takes care of that.

The Conqueror said:
If you know even at least 1-2 programming languages and its fundamental know-how, then I guess learning a new language is simply like learning new "syntax". Of course, some minor architectural changes here and there will of course be there, but I suppose the training takes care of that.

That's not true. C/C++/Java may be similar, try going to Python it's quite different and then go to the world of LISP, and that's a totally different ball game.
There's also a matter of semantics which are not as straightforward to learn in 3 days.

T

Liverpool_fan said:
C/C++/Java may be similar, try going to Python it's quite different and then go to the world of LISP, and that's a totally different ball game.
There's also a matter of semantics which are not as straightforward to learn in 3 days.

Because I read that in one book related to algorithms. Now, I see textbooks and the real world are quite different.Anyways, thanks for clearing the fact.

H

asingh said:
^^
I personally feel the disclaimer was but in bad taste to the blog, to sensationalize the blog. And he is in know position to advice freshers with so less experience.

I have a basic question. How much experience do you think is necessary to share his experiences and his mistakes in his own blog post and end it with the lessons that he learnt from his mistakes?

asingh said:
His target audience caveat is also absolute fail, because it will actually strike a point (that too negative) with people who he never wished would read. The disclaimer guys.

The disclaimer is a fail is your opinion. Fair enough. My opinion is If I am the author I will not care about uninvited comments on my article. More so when I have asked most people to stay away from my article. If people can not read and understand disclaimers but get too emotional it is their problem not the author's problem.

By the way, when I opened the link from this page, I read his mathematical blogs first. Found them more interesting.

I enjoyed his math articles too. We agree somewhere.

I personally found the article as a good attempt to remove some myths about the IT industry. Freshers don't have a clear picture of what happens in Infy, tCS, Wipro. they believe in a lot of myths that this article clarifies. The language could have been softer and less harsh but ultimately the facts are very informative for a fresher.

People like us who have been in the IT industry for a long time may not find any eye-opening stuff in his blog. We all know the reality. But freshers don't know the reality. I personally feel that the article should be read for what it's worth by every fresher. But I don't mean that everyone should just read and throw away their offers from Infy, TCS or Wipro and sit jobless at home. I hope the freshers have the brains to read the post, think critically and take the most appropriate decision for their careers.

The Conqueror said:
Because I read that in one book related to algorithms. Now, I see textbooks and the real world are quite different.Anyways, thanks for clearing the fact.

The textbook is correct if you are switching to one language from another using the same paradigm. But if you are moving from C to LISP or Haskell to Python it is like learning a new thing. But previous experience with some programming language helps even while moving across paradigms.

Even within the same paradigm every language also teaches you some new style of doing things. So it demands some more work than just learning a new syntax. But I repeat that experience with one language helps in learning other language.

The Conqueror said:
Because I read that in one book related to algorithms. Now, I see textbooks and the real world are quite different.Anyways, thanks for clearing the fact.

The book is right actually, the point is often misunderstood though.
Algorithms will be the same for obvious reason but the semantics will be different. Take it this way, the construction of sentences in English and Hindi will have the same meaning behind them but the way the meaning of the sentence is analysed i.e. semantics are different.

H

Liverpool_fan said:
The book is right actually, the point is often misunderstood though.
Algorithms will be the same for obvious reason but the semantics will be different. Take it this way, the construction of sentences in English and Hindi will have the same meaning behind them but the way the meaning of the sentence is analysed i.e. semantics are different.

Oh right! I agree with liverpool. Ignore my previous comment. I forgot that you read this in algorithms book and thought that you read it in a programming language book.

@Hari:
At least a person should have 5-6 years of work experience to stand on a pedestal and lecture.

Also what racked my brain, was the glorification of start-ups. Where would all they be, if it had not been for these big power houses to bring in work to India.

Basically this article might play on the human psychology of bad being seen over the good. But hell anyways, someone in need of a job (fresher) will give nothing to blogs like this. This is more for elite class.

I read all the post and all the ancillary blogs + their posts. I read his blog as holistically as possible, and not minutely.

H

asingh said:
@Hari:
At least a person should have 5-6 years of work experience to stand on a pedestal and lecture. Also what racked my brain, was the glorification of start-ups. Where would all they be, if it had not been for these big power houses to bring in work to India.

The author has more than 5.5 years of work experience. I found it in his linkedin profile: Susam Pal - India | LinkedIn

T

Liverpool_fan said:
The book is right actually, the point is often misunderstood though.
Algorithms will be the same for obvious reason but the semantics will be different. Take it this way, the construction of sentences in English and Hindi will have the same meaning behind them but the way the meaning of the sentence is analysed i.e. semantics are different.

Alright.

asingh said:
^^
I personally feel the disclaimer was but in bad taste to the blog, to sensationalize the blog.

The particular paragraph seemed like a rhetorical statement to me. Much like those Hindi dialogues like "Ek baap ka beta hai toh samne aa" [ No offence meant

] It was weird being told to consider that quite a number of times ..

H

At last I read each and every comment made on that article. I liked one comment a lot.

Quoted comment link

traviklais:

There is a very interesting pattern in the long discussion in comments. The people who disagree with this article are either still working in one of these three companies or they have never worked in one of these three companies. Those who have worked in one of these three companies and then left it to join a better company are the ones who agree with the article in their comments. There are two implications of this pattern.

1. People who have seen only one side of the software industry disagree with this article.

2. People who have seen both sides of the software industry agree with this article.

Javin, there wasn't any need to create a new ID "harihari".

*i.imgur.com/1FdDS.png
*i.imgur.com/riIhB.png

harihari said:
People like us who have been in the IT industry for a long time may not find any eye-opening stuff in his blog. We all know the reality. But freshers don't know the reality. I personally feel that the article should be read for what it's worth by every fresher. But I don't mean that everyone should just read and throw away their offers from Infy, TCS or Wipro and sit jobless at home. I hope the freshers have the brains to read the post, think critically and take the most appropriate decision for their careers.

Thanks for this one. Freshers believe first by what they've listened. The Reality comes to them only after some years of experience (may be in months you can say).
Absolutely Freshers need to think again on such issues before falling prey to the hype of these companies. Because these kind of decisions are most important to our life.

xtremevicky said:
Whats the point again ? Do tell me ?

What I was gonna post till I saw you too have the same damn doubt

^^ If you read the whole thread, and still you don't get the point, no one can explain any better..

No I did read it, but after reading the first few posts, that was my reaction, and saw vicky had the same reaction.

God, to all those who understood fair enough!

Write a book and get over it already!!

One thing nobody posted , I had 3 job offers when i was out of college . You know what i joined ?

The one who was offering the most money. #FACHT of life IMO,

#FACT of life IMO,

that is obvious. I wish I could get into INTEL (cuz AMD isn't there?)

But I think Broadcom and all are making their presence here too, and I would be happy to start anywhere there.

No IT job.

#FACHT is being used for a reason mate . lets no go into that .

Intel is awesome company to work in . Brilliant office in Bangalore . I wish i could get there .

What is #FACHT..?

It a way of a certain ex-Liverpool manager of saying fact . Way off topic mate

What about the hash? :lol:

Do you speak that in actual conversation as well
"Hello my name is At the rate of Jack, I wonder anyone will accomopany me to the Hash movie. Hash Yahoo. Hash Fun. ok thx bye." :
"Hash Movie is Hash Fail"

xtremevicky said:
#FACHT

Fact 1 - this is not twitter

Fact 2 - Who speaks like that?

Fact 3 - If i see any more of this i'm gonna ban twit speak / put it in the forum rules

let us move on to the topic now...

# is being used to emphasize soemthing when the you want to notify others that this is something not missing .

@ssk..

Do that mate

.

Since many of you are going on and on about how this blog might affect the 'innocent' mind of a fresher, well I thought I might as well put in my opinion on the matter. I am a student in my third of engineering (so technically, I am not yet a fresher but still...), from an average college etc etc, who has a healthy interest in the IT field. I am an average student, an aam aadmi, so I hope my opinion will help you guys.

What S.Pal said in his blog were purely his thoughts and lessons he learnt from life. I'm not complaining when I get free advice.

So right now in college the myths are still very active. According to these myths, if you get into Infosys, TCS, etc. your life is set! Everyone wants a placement, and a placement from one of these 'reputed' companies is more than enough for most people.

When I read his blog it confirmed what I had heard before. It wasn't something new. It didn't brainwash me. However, he did put forth some pretty interesting arguments supporting his decision. No point re-iterating them all over again though. I understand that this advice caters to the elite students who have what it takes to get into really good companies.

But that doesn't mean we can't learn from him. Actually, I was inspired. It made me feel good that people are still innovating and pushing technology forward from India itself. That everyone doesn't have to work under a Big banner to make a living, and that we don't have to go abroad if we do want to make an impact.

Now, when I apply for a job, if I get something in Microsoft, Google, etc. obviously I will take it. But if I don't and I do not get a startup which is doing a really interesting project, I will happily go to Infi, TCS, etc. Every place has its own share of things to learn and people to idolize!!

So cheers to that! :toast:

Well put mate ! Very well put !

I do hope you get into Google or Microsoft etc.

xtremevicky said:
Well put mate ! Very well put !

I do hope you get into Google or Microsoft etc.

Isn't that what everybody here told. You never agreed upon any of their points and now, *sigh*.

@deathwish

Nice mate.

You missed a very important point he mentioned that the author did not . Fiqure that out first .

*Phew*

^^ Nope, he is not. It is in the disclaimer and may be the words are different, but it means the same.

deathwish said:
Since many of you are going on and on about how this blog might affect the 'innocent' mind of a fresher, well I thought I might as well put in my opinion on the matter. I am a student in my third of engineering (so technically, I am not yet a fresher but still...), from an average college etc etc, who has a healthy interest in the IT field. I am an average student, an aam aadmi, so I hope my opinion will help you guys.

What S.Pal said in his blog were purely his thoughts and lessons he learnt from life. I'm not complaining when I get free advice.

So right now in college the myths are still very active. According to these myths, if you get into Infosys, TCS, etc. your life is set! Everyone wants a placement, and a placement from one of these 'reputed' companies is more than enough for most people.

When I read his blog it confirmed what I had heard before. It wasn't something new. It didn't brainwash me. However, he did put forth some pretty interesting arguments supporting his decision. No point re-iterating them all over again though. I understand that this advice caters to the elite students who have what it takes to get into really good companies.

But that doesn't mean we can't learn from him. Actually, I was inspired. It made me feel good that people are still innovating and pushing technology forward from India itself. That everyone doesn't have to work under a Big banner to make a living, and that we don't have to go abroad if we do want to make an impact.

Now, when I apply for a job, if I get something in Microsoft, Google, etc. obviously I will take it. But if I don't and I do not get a startup which is doing a really interesting project, I will happily go to Infi, TCS, etc. Every place has its own share of things to learn and people to idolize!!

So cheers to that!

Very nice.

G

lol all service IT engineers trying to defend.....accept the fact guys....all these industries sucks when you talk about engineering....all they do eod is body shopping work... :lol:

and service industry survives on freshers blood......its like a cycle....they keep on recruiting in infy cos many leave realizing the truth....so the work is done in cheap way...and in no way these companies provide growth in long term

no offense

product companies are the place you find real engineering work done.

gopi_vbboy said:
no offense

product companies are the place you find real engineering work done.

No offense.
But not all people in product based companies do *real engineering* work and neither *all* people in service based companies doesn't do real engineering work.

G

Garbage said:
No offense.
But not all people in product based companies do *real engineering* work and neither *all* people in service based companies doesn't do real engineering work.

oh is it?

...then what the point of discussion here

btw..@furious_gamer...whos the girl in ur dp ;p

O

I have read the entire blog post and the follow up discussion also .I am currently in my 3rd year .I have a few doubts .

I have visited the site of quite a few start ups .What i have noticed is that , even the basic posts offered by the startups require 1~2 years experience.
So,if a fresher has to join a startup right after his B.E. , where will he get this experience from ?

M

I dont understand why you guys are fighting to prove the author wrong or right.Its a piece of information and its upto individual readers what they get out of it.
Now lets Kick the word 'company' out of our discussion and use 'college' as analogy(as i am still in college...HAHAHA).
Now everybody advice you to get into IITs or NITs(Google,Microsoft,....).For that need to have some quality for sure.If you dont have that you dont qualify.So since u havent qualified what do u do???Sit idle and dont graduate???Of course no..You get in where you can(TCS,INFY...)
Now, if you are good enough.Then you fall into two categories.You think that you can get into IIT and prepare for it.Or you are not aware of your abilities and dont even consider trying for the IITs.Its this group that the author is addressing.The author is trying to state those students(employees) what they will miss if they dont even try.