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Ford Foundation and its alleged CIA connections

57 posts · originally from https://geek.digit.in/community/threads/ford-foundation-and-its-alleged-cia-connections.191119/

Ironman
Ironman Original post #1
Apr 24, 2015 at 3:17 PM
World's largest NGO funding agency the Ford Foundation has now come under the scanner of the government of India. As expected it has led to a controversy.

Some beneficiaries of the Ford Foundation money and some activists are up in the arms condemning the government's decision to put Ford Foundation under the surveillance of intelligence agencies.

The US based Ford Foundation is not new to controversies. Many call it a front for the American external spying agency CIA. There have been thousands of articles and research papers on Ford Foundation's CIA links. Even in India, the Ford Foundation is accused of funding the NGOs and movements which actually work against India's socio, political and economic interests.***

James Petras, a Bartle Professor (Emeritus) of Sociology at Binghampton University, New York, and author of: Globalization Unmasked: Imperialism in the 21st Century throws light on the inseparable relationship between the CIA and the Ford Foundation.

In a 2001 article titled 'The Ford Foundation and the CIA', he writes, "The CIA uses philanthropic foundations as the most effective conduit to channel large sums of money to Agency projects without alerting the recipients to their source. From the early 1950s to the present the CIA's intrusion into the foundation field was and is huge. A US Congressional investigation in 1976 revealed that nearly 50% of the 700 grants in the field of international activities by the principal foundations were funded by the CIA (Who Paid the Piper? The CIA and the Cultural Cold War, Frances Stonor Saunders, Granta Books, 1999, pp. 134-135)."

The CIA considers foundations such as Ford "The best and most plausible kind of funding cover" (Ibid, p. 135). The collaboration of respectable and prestigious foundations, according to one former CIA operative, allowed the Agency to fund "a seemingly limitless range of covert action programs affecting youth groups, labor unions, universities, publishing houses and other private institutions" (p. 135).
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The latter included "human rights" groups beginning in the 1950s to the present. One of the most important "private foundations" collaborating with the CIA over a significant span of time in major projects in the cultural Cold War is the Ford Foundation. This essay will demonstrate that the Ford Foundation-CIA connection was a deliberate, conscious joint effort to strengthen US imperial cultural hegemony and to undermine left-wing political and cultural influence. We will proceed by examining the historical links between the Ford Foundation and the CIA during the Cold War, by examining the Presidents of the Foundation, their joint projects and goals as well as their common efforts in various cultural areas."

According to Petras, by the late 1950s the Ford Foundation possessed over $3 billion in assets. The leaders of the Foundation were in total agreement with Washington's post-WWII projection of world power. A noted scholar of the period writes:

"At times it seemed as if the Ford Foundation was simply an extension of government in the area of international cultural propaganda. The foundation had a record of close involvement in covert actions in Europe, working closely with Marshall Plan and CIA officials on specific projects" (Ibid, p.139). This is graphically illustrated by the naming of Richard Bissell as President of the Foundation in 1952. In his two years in office Bissell met often with the head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, and other CIA officials in a "mutual search" for new ideas. In 1954 Bissell left Ford to become a special assistant to Allen Dulles in January 1954 (Ibid, p. 139). Under Bissell, the Ford Foundation (FF) was the "vanguard of Cold War thinking".

One of the FF first Cold War projects was the establishment of a publishing house, Inter-cultural Publications, and the publication of a magazine Perspectives in Europe in four languages. The FF purpose according to Bissell was not "so much to defeat the leftist intellectuals in dialectical combat (sic) as to lure them away from their positions" (Ibid, p. 140). The board of directors of the publishing house was completely dominated by cultural Cold Warriors. Given the strong leftist culture in Europe in the post-war period, Perspectives failed to attract readers and went bankrupt.

Another journal Der Monat funded by the Confidential Fund of the U.S. military and run by Melvin Lasky was taken over by the FF, to provide it with the appearance of independence (Ibid, p. 140).

In 1954 the new president of the FF was John McCloy. He epitomized imperial power. Prior to becoming president of the FF he had been Assistant Secretary of War, president of the World Bank, High Commissioner of occupied Germany, chairman of Rockefeller's Chase Manhattan Bank, Wall Street attorney for the big seven oil companies and director of numerous corporations. As High Commissioner in Germany, McCloy had provided cover for scores of CIA agents (Ibid, p. 141).

McCloy integrated the FF with CIA operations. He created an administrative unit within the FF specifically to deal with the CIA. McCloy headed a three person consultation committee with the CIA to facilitate the use of the FF for a cover and conduit of funds.

With these structural linkages the FF was one of those organizations the CIA was able to mobilize for political warfare against the anti-imperialist and pro-communist left. Numerous CIA "fronts" received major FF grants. Numerous supposedly "independent" CIA sponsored cultural organizations, human rights groups, artists and intellectuals received CIA/FF grants.

One of the biggest donations of the FF was to the CIA organized Congress for Cultural Freedom which received $7 million by the early 1960s. Numerous CIA operatives secured employment in the FF and continued close collaboration with the Agency (Ibid, p. 143).

From its very origins there was a close structural relation and interchange of personnel at the highest levels between the CIA and the FF. This structural tie was based on the common imperial interests which they shared.

The result of their collaboration was the proliferation of a number of journals and access to the mass media which pro-US intellectuals used to launch vituperative polemics against Marxists and other anti-imperialists. The FF funding of these anti-Marxists organizations and intellectuals provided a legal cover for their claims of being "independent" of government funding (CIA).

He concludes that the Ford Foundation is well situated to replay its role as collaborator to cover for the New Cultural Cold War.

The Ford Foundation claims that it helps the third world to strengthen the democracy. If we go by this argument, that should keep India safe because the US claims to further the cause of democracy while India is the largest democracy, right?

According to journalist Surajit Dasgupta, that notion is wrong. He says that the Americans often follow an Indira Gandhi-like policy: Romancing with nefarious elements till they serve as Pentagon's puppets. A deep probe into the cia-on-campus.org site reveals that the Ford Foundation has dirty pro-Islamic businesses it would rather be silent on.

There have been a number of reports by journalists about it founding anti-Israel NGOs. It is also worth noting that Henry Ford created the Ford Foundation while he was involved in and impressed by Nazi Germany, two years before he received his award. Remember, Ford also had a factory in Imperial Japan and, for some unexplained reason in March 1945, Japan sent orders for a pro-independence committee to be formed in Indonesia.

Former Ford Foundation president Richard Bisell acknowledged that the purpose of the Ford Foundation was not "so much to defeat the Leftist intellectuals in dialectical combat as to lure them away from their positions". In other words, you make them work in 'harmless' activities, and not in those that may eventually pose a threat to the interests of the US Administration.

*** - I have been telling everyone this , but nobody believed me !:evil:
G
Apr 24, 2015 at 3:41 PM
Another link which details FF's FCRA activities

Foreign Funding to Indian NGOs : Organizations which received funds from Ford Foundation via FCRA:2006-2012

Take a look - it is interesting. There are a few open EJs there, but large number seem to be focussed on political & social activism, not religious.

But when you look a little deeply, they are nearly all run by Evangelists and receive funds from similar parties.

Fcra OnLine Services

Click on 2014-15 and Choose Andhra.

Just as an example choose, no. 25 " Samantha Community Development and Welfare Society", their name does not look religious. They classify themselves as social org (hit on the link for their name). But scroll down and see the donor "Canadian Baptist Ministries".

Similarly no. 28,

"Society for Helpless & Economically Backward Area". Classified as Social org, name is not religious

See the donor list and the same conclusion is reached.
amjath
amjath #3
Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM
Why Ford did it? What they get from this?
Anorion
Anorion #4
Apr 24, 2015 at 6:22 PM
something is fishy here

I donno what is happening here, but what should not be happening is: the government using the intelligence bureau and the home ministry as another tool in it's image building /PR machinery. Using tactics to suppress and pressurize NGOs that are doing good work and that raise dissenting voices and don't agree with all the policies of the government, as part of their work. Again, not saying this is happening, just saying it should not be happening.

Crackdown on NGOs was long overdue: Home Ministry - timesofindia-economictimes
G
Apr 24, 2015 at 7:22 PM
[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] There is a difference between subversive and legal/valid activities.

How come changing demographics of a country through illegal means and stopping developmental activities by encouraging and leading to social discontent leagal and valid?

And Gov. keeping tabs on the activities of NGO's and their backers is not new. Happens in every country, whether dictatorship or democracy, since days immemorial.
beingGamer
Apr 24, 2015 at 8:10 PM
[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] I read at many places that Ford foundation has been funding organizations which they feel can destabilize India.
I think i read one topic on OpIndia.com - news reports and analysis from India recently. ran by 2 youths only & they are doing great job at exposing media & orgs just by doing google searches
GhorMaanas
Apr 24, 2015 at 9:13 PM
next after greenpiss! way to go!
BTW, the surveillance and pressure is more on foreign-funded NGOs, than the domestic ones, if am correct.
amjath
amjath #8
Apr 24, 2015 at 10:03 PM
Whats wrong with green peace. They come to our office for donation and government helps them by giving donators tax exceptions
GhorMaanas
Apr 25, 2015 at 2:01 AM
this is nothing new; but what's new is that post the Indira Gandhi Govt., this is the first one that's taken a cautious & stern stance against such 'contractors for agitations' (in that that they haven't outrightly clamped down on their activities, but have started actively monitoring their accounts, plus suspended their license/registration). you may have to read a lot on the presence and activities of such fronts (FF, GP et al) which are giving genuine NGOs a very bad name. but nevertheless, had you come across the recent fiasco over Indian tea? anyway, these all are a part of psy war ops that's being raged since decades (put simply, the game of sabotaging the attempts of those who are striving to come up to challenge a dominator's position). many cases, very murky, and will require a good study. even i went through some of it recently. what's funny is that countries like The Terrorist State of Baakistan, Bangladesh and such, which utmost require such gracious 'NGOs' more than anyone else, they have next-to-none presence of them there. @Ironman and @gemini90 can provide a primer on that much better.
Anorion
Anorion #10
Apr 25, 2015 at 2:50 AM
oh well who is to decide after the PM accuses even the judiciary to be swayed by these five star activists
PM Modi Cautions Judiciary Against '5-Star Activists,' Urges Self-Assessment

so these NGOs... staffed by Indian citizens working with Indian locals, are allegedly being used by CIA, terrorists, money launderers and missionaries for their own benefit... anyone left out?
G
gemini90 #11
Apr 25, 2015 at 7:48 AM
via@Tracking Evangelism

"India is a dark nation" "Idol Worship is common" "More ppl have tasted Pepsi than they've heard name of Jesus"

*vimeo.com/125865199

Single org. Single year. 17 crores from USA. 53k new converts. 4 lakh baptisms which itself is conversion too.

Fcra OnLine Services

*indiamission.org/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2014-05-14-at-11.50.56-AM.png

- - - Updated - - -

US seeks clarification from India on Ford Foundation issue

Press Trust of India | Washington Apr 25, 2015 02:28 AM IST

The United States today expressed concern over India's crackdown on Ford Foundation and Greenpeace,and said it is seeking "clarification" on the action.

"We are aware that the (Indian) Ministry of Home Affairs suspended the registration of Greenpeace India and has placed the Ford Foundation on a prior permission watch list," the State Department Deputy Acting Spokesperson, Marie Harf, told reporters at her daily news conference.

Why is Govt of USA making it a Govt to Govt problem when a duly elected GoI suspends what is officially a charity foundations work in India?
Anorion
Anorion #12
Apr 25, 2015 at 1:31 PM
^link please

that video is horrible
hopefully people can see past it
Ironman
Ironman #13
Apr 25, 2015 at 2:18 PM
so these NGOs... staffed by Indian citizens working with Indian locals, are allegedly being used by CIA, terrorists, money launderers and missionaries for their own benefit... anyone left out?


Left Out ... Yes

List of intelligence agencies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Afghanistan: NDS Albania: SHISH Algeria: DRS Argentina: SI Australia: ASIS Azerbaijan: MTN Bahrain: NSA Bangladesh: NSI Belarus: KGB RB Belgium: ADIV/SGRS Bosnia and Herzegovina: OSA-OBA Brazil: ABIN Brunei: BRD Cameroon: BMM Canada: CSIS Chad: ANS Chile: ANI China: MSS Croatia: SOA Cuba: DI Czech Republic: ÚZSI Denmark: FE Djibouti: BSRG Ecuador: SENAIN Egypt: GID Estonia: TA France: DGSE Gambia: NIA Georgia: GIS Germany: BND Ghana: BNI, BGU, RDU Greece: EYP Hungary: IH India: RAW Indonesia: BIN Iran: VAJA Iraq: GSD Republic of Ireland: G2 Israel: Mossad Italy: AISE Ivory Coast: NSC Japan: NPA CIRO Jordan: GID Kazakhstan: Syrbar Kenya: NIS Kyrgyzstan: SNB Kuwait: KSS Latvia: SAB Lithuania: VSD Lebanon: GDGS Libya: MJ Republic of Macedonia: UBK Malaysia: MEIO Maldives: NSS Mexico: CISEN Mongolia: GIA Montenegro: ANB Morocco: DGST Mozambique: SISE Netherlands: AIVD New Zealand: NAB Nigeria: NIA Norway: E-tjenesten Pakistan: ISI Papua New Guinea: NIO Philippines: NICA Poland: AW Portugal: SIED Qatar: QSS Romania: SIE Russia: SVR Saudi Arabia: GIP Serbia: BIA Sierra Leone: CISU Singapore: SID Slovakia: SIS Slovenia: SOVA Somalia: NISA South Africa: SASS South Korea: NIS Spain: CNI Sri Lanka: SIS Sudan: JAWM Switzerland: NDB Syria: GSD Taiwan: NSB Tajikistan: MoS Togo: NIA Tunisia: TIA Turkey: MİT Turkmenistan: KNB Uganda: ISO Ukraine: SZRU United Arab Emirates: UAEI United Kingdom: SIS (MI6) United States: CIA Uzbekistan: SNB Vietnam: TC2
Anorion
Anorion #14
Apr 25, 2015 at 2:27 PM
lol. ty.
original IB report
IB-Report-NGOs June 2014

wording is pretty clear, which makes the intentions also pretty clear. It is simply that these NGOs are in the way of development.

august last year greenpeace worked with 50,000 forest dwellers in 54 villages to prevent the forest being acquired for a coal mine > Local groups push to save India's Mahan forest from coal future | News | Eco-Business | Asia Pacific
in march this year, the villagers were successful in their stand against Hindalco and Essar Greenpeace celebrates landmark victory in dispute over Mahan forest » TckTckTck | The Global Call for Climate Action

timing for this pressure now seems suspicious. no conversions in this case.

apart from that, there were some peaceful resolutions and even praise between the government, industries and NGOs on some matters, pesticide in tea, solar panels that give back to the grid.
GhorMaanas
Apr 25, 2015 at 2:31 PM
the '5-star activists' remark wasn't just spoken in jest; it applies to a very particular set of people, and rightly miffs some (the likes of Madame Suzanne Arundhati Roy, Angana Chatterji et al, those very same ones, on a 'mission' to locate mass-graves of people in Gujarat under Hillary Clinton's initiatives, but found only buffalo-skeletons, and who while each of the day that the Narmada dam project was delayed for atleast a decade and the villagers of Kutchh had to walk miles to fetch water, were sipping pellegrino; the reports of the villagers weeping in relief and gratitude for, yes, their Govt., eventually opening the canals carrying clear water, are a damning condemnation of these traitors). just because its fashionable to lambast one's govt. on any and everything and to associate oneself with some seemingly 'noble' causes as modern-day devotees of righteousness, the reports of investigations being carried out since atleast more than a decade shouldn't be overlooked (and yes, such reports were tabled to our Singh saahab too during his tenure, but except for pulling up the US-stooge Udayakumar once, it was business as usual). this is a copy of the detailed report from IB that was presented last year:

IB Report on NGO

before someone feels the impulse to brush the report aside (again, as its fashionable to appear 'progressive' today by cursing your govt. and its agencies), it would do good to read a bit on the brilliant, mild-mannered gentleman Mr. S.A. Rizvi. the findings of the report above are certainly not new.
a damage to GDP-growth at the rate of 2-3% P.A. is serious, and amounts to 'economic terrorism'. a feature of that very same thing can be glanced over here thus - among some of the unsung proactive measures taken by the Govt., this was one:

Rs 16 lakh crore stalled investment greets Narendra Modi-led BJP govt - Financial Express

As many as 285 projects, involving investment over Rs 16 lakh crore, are pending with the government, part of the legacy the new government has inherited from the UPA. These have been held up either for want of clearance or because of obstacles created as a result of turf wars among various ministries during the UPA regime.

Amid the perception of policy paralysis in turn paralysing the economy during the previous regime, a project monitoring group (PMG) was set up under the cabinet secretariat last June. The PMG, headed by Anil Swarup, an additional secretary-ranked officer, was assigned 437 projects worth over Rs 21 lakh crore. It has resolved issues relating to 152 projects in the last one year, paving the way for investments worth Rs 5.32 lakh crore.

The PMG was given 62 projects to start with, but within months found itself facing a rush from industries seeking resolution of issues in various sectors. By January, the number of projects had crossed 400. Of the 437 that reached the PMG eventually, 342 entail investments over Rs 1,000 crore.

The 437 projects were burdened with about 1,200 issues, say sources briefed about the investments being monitored by the PMG. While most of the stalled investments related to projects in the energy sectors (power, coal and petroleum), the majority of the issues that stalled these investments pertained to the ministries of environment and coal.

*i.imgur.com/PEEaqvg.jpg

the PM had responded quickly by providing the above-cited PMG more authority:

Narendra Modi govt to modify UPA's brainchild PMG, give more teeth - Financial Express

While the present mandate of PMG, which operates as a division under the cabinet secretariat, is to coordinate with line ministries to expedite the required clearances for stuck projects, sources said the new NDA government wants the PMG to go beyond that. In fact, the government is thinking of revamping the entire project clearance mechanism.

"The PMG could be morphed into a different institution. Chances are it will be strengthened," an official told FE, adding the division could continue to remain under the oversight of the cabinet secretariat. It may act as a nodal body that synchronises clearances with similar bodies at the state level.

Already, PMG has been asked to gauge actual investment and production from the projects already cleared so far. "The message has been that we should go beyond clearances and find the actual economic activity —production of goods and services, power generation — after the clearances," said the official.

Since 2013, PMG has facilitated clearance of 150-odd projects involving Rs 6 lakh crore of investment. Despite this, the investment cycle has not seen any upswing and GDP growth remained subdued at 4.7%, a shade higher than the decade's slowest pace of 4.5% recorded in 2012-13.

coming to greenpeace alone, some of the highlights of IB/MHA reports and other interesting info:

- recently, their 'research'-paper titled 'trouble brewing on the Indian tea' was published, alleging that India tea contains moderate-to-high amounts of pesticides and shouldn't be consumed. the brands mentioned are exported to america, britain, europe. but where was the 'research' and 'testing' conducted was not disclosed by GP, and the requests to do so were declined, citing "we do not disclose our sources to third-parties". it was ascertained that the so-called tests were conducted at a pvt. lab in a european nation.
- prior this, GP had accepted 'contracts' to stall the coming up of 5 ultra mega power projects at MP (saasan), AP (Krishnapattanam), MS (Griye), Odisha (Sundargadh), Gujarat (Mundra), which are to provide 20,000 MW of power.
- attempts to stall work at 3 coal dependent industrial areas, at CG (Korba), MP (Jabalpur), UP (Varanasi), from where again 20,000 MW of power is to be derived.
- agitation to stop import of palm oil from Indonesia, which, if successful, would've led to its price-increase.
- about 200 donors to GP are suspected of money-laundering. BTW, for all their bull claims that they get their funding only through public charity and donation, it would do well to read (how) GP had lost 30 million Pounds not very long ago. the HQ of GP Int'l is located at Amsterdam, a european tax-haven, and known to have a lot of money-circulation, in we know what. the annual budget of GP is INR 1560 cr., with about 15k members. last year, a report of financial irregularities in the body had surfaced.
- for all its calls for environment-protection, GP agitators had damaged a historical heritage site in Peru last year.
- Netherlands itself had arrested 44 of these agitators who were obstructing the arrival of a Russian oil tanker.
- a little details into the 'contract' grabbed to stall projects in India - a 'coal strategy conference' organised in Instanbul in July 2012....GP India is handed a contract to get stalled all the coal-based power-plants in India....a 'coal-network' was formed by america's 'green organisation' and GP america....the american org 'climate works foundation' hands over INR 1.5 cr to GP India....as a result, GP India organised agitations at many places in the country....these included protests against 455 new thermal power-plants....these quislings put NTPC as their no. 1 target, and strived to put the locks on 47 projects of NTPC....GP Int'l sent their ground troops from america, europe australia for this....this team comprised of 13 foreign nationals (9 europeans, 3 americans, 1 aussie)....these were endowed with the responsibility of 'training' GP India volunteers on how to agitate effectively....european GP activist benjamin david was also invited to India on business-visa to train them on how to hide the fact of foreign-funding from the media and the GoI....the protests were organised at more than 39 power-plants (credit: the coalswarm website)....this was deemed 45% successful by coalswarm....GP India had given out ads in newspapers, and had begun lobbying for nuclear liabilities clauses.

and it doesn't end at that.

if one cannot blindly trust their govt'.s reports, which is good, they should be questioned, then what makes people want to blindly trust others, here, these 'NGOs'?! if not anyone else, may be the words of GP's founder (Patrick Moore) could instill some confidence? --> Why I Left Greenpeace - WSJ (gist being, GP was later on hijacked by political interests).

i believe most of GP India's volunteers, the enthusiastic youth, they are not aware of the grim agenda behind such groups, and are well-intentioned otherwise. with our attention-span that of a gnat and neither aware nor care much to look beyond the sparkle and glitz associated with such mass-appealing movements, a crop of part-time and enthusiastically driven youth plus those looking to enhance their resumes too, they are being utilised as ground troops. we already have an army of professional 'krantikaris', we don't need more. next time if and when anyone encounters a couple of these GP volunteers at some IT park or somewhere, asking you to donate and help the 'cause', just ask them that do they know that the clothes that they are wearing also requires power to be manufactured?
if these groups really had all the goodwill and intentions to bring about positive changes, couldn't they have just discussed or/and joined hands with the Govt. in movements like of river-cleaning, steps to reduce pollution from automobiles, green-cover enhancing initiatives, etc.? Japan & Germany have been working on 'clean coal' tech.s since some time. if they so much wanted to bring good changes to environment here, they could've discussed and rallied for bringing the tech. to India at nominal prices. happening?!

Japan has for many years kept GP and their likes on their toes, by subjecting them through METI audits, not something to fool with. perhaps we should tackle them the in the Russian and Chinese way. revoking their license for 6 months and freezing 7 of their bank-acct.s is a good first step. even al-jazeera was recently taken to task for showing distorted map of India despite being issued repeated warnings over the past few years, by taking them off the air for 3 days. although unrelated, but there are signals (not very well-know or covered) that the GoI is asserting its stance, indicating the connivers that the criminally relenting govt. of the past, well, is past now, and 'badmaashi' now won't be taken lying down, the jhola & bindi waale professional 'krantikaris' notwithstanding!
Anorion
Anorion #16
Apr 25, 2015 at 2:47 PM
Yeah don't believe that 2-3% damage to the GDP.
the IB report was never officially released, it was kept in front of the journalists, they were free to take photos, but no one was handed printouts. .
GhorMaanas
Apr 25, 2015 at 3:06 PM
well, i would like to believe it with an allowance of some margin of a couple of decimal places, given the credentials of Mr. Rizvi, who is not known for analyses less than rigorous; coming from a breed of old-school academic intel brains, some high-profile scams were cracked by him and his team, including some large stock-mkt ones, plus targeting terrorism through their money-supply links even if through intricate and convoluted channels. many such successes to his credit.
and atleast zee media house is said to have copies of thise IB-MHA reports (were shown on TV, with highlighted points).
G
gemini90 #18
Apr 25, 2015 at 3:22 PM
^link please

that video is horrible
hopefully people can see past it
[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] On a serious note, do you have any idea how conversion takes place? If not, I can tell you about 3 specific inter-related methods employed by missionaries in my own village and surrounding areas.
Anorion
Anorion #19
Apr 25, 2015 at 3:23 PM
nope, I donno. How?
G
gemini90 #20
Apr 25, 2015 at 4:08 PM
Well, the last time i visited my village in Bundelkhand, i saw posters regarding a community meeting to be held at the mela ground in the area. Expecting festivities, i went their with my cousins. What happened was totally unexpected. 3 foreigners (2 women, 1 man) + support team comprising of indians was present there. A statue of mary and jesus in a similar vein like this -> India protests over 'tribal' Virgin Mary and baby Jesus - BBC News

was present. They started off by putting forward a few of those indians to speak about their personal problems and how jesus, and by extension, the church has helped them overcome those problems. Meanwhile others from their group started approaching people individually.Then 1 foreign lady took up the mike started speaking in hindi (to my surprise) and spoke about the miracles of jesus + about a new church being constructed in the area and how it will be open to all, whether christians or not. On asking mu cousins, he told me that this is a monthly activity. Rest of the times, missionaries visit the household in the afternoon when men are at work in the fields to try and convince the womenfolk about their objectives. In similar vein to the saying that educating a women teaches the whole family. You get the idea, don't you? the pastor in church and missionaries also provide cheap loans + and other monetary help (like what happened after the tsunami last decade).

This is just one way how they mix up the local customs with their own religion to make it not seem as anything alien. Just like how we have christian yoga these days.

Reality is, in 2-3 years GOI has to solve ALL problems with FCRA so that they can start addressing the other routes. They need to probably amend laws to an extent where no money is allowed to Indian NGOs from abroad.

These donors have become experts at funneling money into India. BAM (business as mission) is their next frontier. You will realize that dealing with FCRA is child's play compared to dealing with BAM. There are dozens of american EJ investors who fund Indian x-ngos to start a company. So it will no more be an NGO, it will be a business. So it will be classified as FDI for business and will not be under the purview of the charitable donations act or FCRA. Only difference in this case is they will pay corporate tax.

So, EJ investors will provide Indian EJ's with seed capital to start businesses (can be as simple as a taxi service to a retail store), donate a portion of the ensuing profit to Indian x-tian ngos. So this will be totally out of the purview of the FCRA act since the ngo is receiving money from an Indian startup which in turn has given a part of its equity to an EJ investor abroad. So how on earth will Indian GOI go around monitoring this.

There is a solution though, a full blown anti conversion law (forced/voluntary), meaning no more freedom of religion in India. Now that can only be done if we have 10 more years of a Right Wing GOI. Only good news is that BAM is just taking shape, I have come across several cases of BAM, but its not a flood. But the more GOI tightens FCRA, more BAM money will come. But that will be 10 years from now before it reaches new highs, by then an anti conversion law is a must.

- - - Updated - - -

About that video, the excerpts of missionaries in their is not for our consumption. It is for the western public and entities who give financial support. I have met an old missionary during his journey to India, he had grown up with his parents (who were missionaries) in India. He was grandfather now, and his children also do mission work. There are many such families in Europe, totally dedicated to this path of converting Indians (even though local church attendance is record low).

As to why the western states give tacit support to this system, well that will be hitting the heart of the problem, namely use of religion for political means. For eg, the role of Bishop and cardinals during italian marine incident where they killed indian fishermen in indian waters.

Pick up the niyogi committee report - VINDICATED BY TIME - The Niyogi Committee Report

or books by Arun Shourie - Harvesting Our Souls or Missionaries in India. , By Rajiv Malhotra and few others and you will see what is happening away from our glare.

...................................................................................................

By the way, do you remember an incident which took in Haryana where the local people demolished a church in rural area. Exactly what was the need for a church in an area where according to census, not a single christian soul was present withing miles.
GhorMaanas
Apr 25, 2015 at 4:16 PM
reminds of MKG's quote - "i would've been a christian, if not for the christians."

sometime back, even the 'wife' of the PM had been visited by an Indian & a foreigner lady missionaries, to assure her of their 'support' to her in her grievances against the govt., and was invited by them to Mumbai for a visit to their organisation to learn more about their works. following the photo-ops session, the pastor clarified that this was no 'conversion' attempt.
these people should be dealt with tactfully, and tit-for-tat. propaganda should be countered with spreading awareness through AV media overwhelmingly, disrobing them at every step. this has been an acute failing of our govt.s which shouldn't be overlooked anymore.
G
gemini90 #22
Apr 25, 2015 at 4:26 PM
AS for the larger picture, have a look at this - Courtesy of one learned fellow

The events of the past few years, especially the months after Modi sarkar was born has been anything but interesting for the country.
The way the major English TV Channels, some journalists, some intellectuals and some elites are painting a narration that is dangerous to the stability of the country. And it is inevitable that the nexus need to be analyzed by all of us from several layers and angles. We can only scratch the tip of the iceberg in these conversations.

What is being done?
Multiple smaller narratives are being painted of a dysfunctional India. These narratives are on Indian traditions, Indian people, Indian government, Indian institutions, Hinduism, Majority and last but not the least Modi. The narration is nothing knew that India has seen in the last few hundred years. What sets the current set of narrations different from the recent past is the shorter time frame, consolidation of various narrations to paint a utterly dysfunctional India.

Who is doing it?
There is no one monolithic entity machining the entire sequence of events. Each entity feeds of opportunities presented and efforts of the each other. These entities do not have be related, however the nexus of Media, NGO, politicians, elites, intellectuals, business houses, missionaries, foreign powers, power brokers need to be considered. The nefarious elements need grassroots support and they use individuals who believe in simplistic ideologies and distressed people. Considering the size of India, and its history in the last few hundred years, there are plenty of people who can be exploited and converted into brown sepoys.

Why are they doing it?
While the nexus between these "breaking India forces" {Borrowing Rajiv Malhotra's terms} is interesting and illuminating from certain angles; from other angles the relationship between the entities do not matter. Some of the entities grouped as "breaking India forces" could be gullible themselves and could be treading their path because of certain ideologies that they think are paramount. For example some NGOs who bring attention to the externalities of businesses and the effect on environment. A media house might be against Modi government simply because they do not like him, while other media houses are interested in TRP rating. Bashing Modi gets the eyes of both Modi supporters and bashers. It is really that simple. An activist here or there might truly believe in saving the environment or a few hundred farmers or a dozen villages from 'modern development'. A politician might be just interested in holding on to his seat or getting new funds for his party and opportunities to climb up the political ladder. Missionaries care just for harvesting souls. Radical Mullahs might want to join the Global Jihad believing 'Islam katrae mein hain' {Islam is in danger}.

To me why they are doing it is less important than the effect of their activities.

Does it really matter?
So from a few angles if the nexus is not important, then do the activities of these entities really matter? If it all they matter, to whom does it matter? These are complex questions.

One entity's attack might not relate to another entity's attack; or that they might not even coordinate their attacks. However the various attacks have a snowball effect as they feed off the generated attention and energy and insert their agenda to get their own share of the limelight.

An attack might even seem logical to simple minded folks; and even if we accord genuine nationalistic reasons for an attack what is important is that each attack is connected to pull down India. For example an average man is likely to care for environment, is likely to be ignorant and scared of nuclear energy, furious at corruption and black money, cringe at some of the fanaticism from some Hindu groups and so on so forth. Hence an individual who cares for environment will give the benefit of doubt to activists attacking the government. An uninformed Christian might truly be scared of the Church 'attacks' and join forces with mischief mongers. An common man frustrated with corruption might side with a party that is bent upon pushing India towards anarchy. So from their vantage points these individuals think India (and Modi government) are rightly questioned and feel they are exercising the freedom accorded in democracy and take pride in doing so.

To a farmer suffering from the burden of loans, conversion hardly is important. To a Christian who perceives imaginary threats, environment hardly matters. A Muslim concerned about Islam, might be worried when a Hindu swami speaks up for Hinduism. To an individual who values freedom of expression, might construe monitoring NGOs and activists as illegal.

So these individual attacks do not matter by themselves. However none of these individuals, in our discussion, live in a vacuum. They are constantly bombarded about the dysfunction in the country. Instead of hope and opportunities that Modi and his government have ushered in; these individuals lose sight of the true changes; they start believing in the negative narratives. And ultimately when these forces join, the end result is frustration and anger - conditions that are ripe to be further utilized by breaking India forces to further their agenda.

In the next elections, people can opt for a different political party and currently only Modi seems to be the best person to lead the country. BJP without Modi is ineffective. Ineffective governments do not take care of the country, leaving it at the mercy of nefarious forces. A strong country is a country that can take care of its people.

An argument that is often placed is that the English media is watched by only a few millions when the total population is in billion. What can a few elites do? How effective can two or three activists do? What harm can an intellectual do? These individuals and institutions are connected domestically and internationally. They help magnify a mole hill as a mountain; and Indians overtime start believing these narratives.

What can be done?
Each of the entities that collude or indirectly cause the negative narrative can be terminated. But that is a long road with numerous political, legal, ethical and civilizational challenges. It is not easy to rein in the rogue media, missionaries, foreign powers, radicals etc. Neither can India wage a war against its own people (gullible who have been sucked in) or Institutions that have been subverted. For example closing down NDTV has enough challenges; and NDTV will go down kicking and screaming with blood all over the floor.

As BRF has discussed so often in the past, only a superior and effective counter narrative is the answer.

I used to think rather simply that a rich businessman should realize the opportunity to create a media house that is nationalistic, pro-Hindu and create it. Really how difficult it is, right? There exists a gap that can be filled. But from the perspective of the businessman, if all he wants to make is money then India offers enough loopholes in its systems for him to make easy money. Why does he have to struggle and invite attention. It is trouble when one invites attention, unless the attention helps. A corrupt businessman knows the system to exploit the conditions and continue to make money.

Turning to individuals who value their traditions and parampara; they either do not have the necessary money and influence to create a narrative. Or, they create smaller narratives per their traditions. True to its historical behavior, India allows these narrations to exist and only interested people follow the activities of these individuals. Any TV channel or media started by these people reach limited audience.

So what is the answer?

I propose that to tackle multiple negative narratives, we need multiple positive narratives. Instead of defending any indefensible policies, activities of the government, instead of banging the heads against the breaking forces; time could be spent in creating smaller positive narratives.

Self organizing task forces with people who are passionate or expert in a particular field have to start generating true positive news of India. It is important that it is about India and not about Modi. For example, experts in Health sector can create positive narrative on the reduction in infant mortality rates, increase in life expectancy etc. Experts in agriculture could talk about the enormous development in irrigation, modern technique employed by farmers, ISRO's efforts to help monitor various natural resources. Experts in sociology can counter the 'rape' narrative that is being painted. Experts on infrastructure should give a narrative of the usefulness of infrastructure and energy projects.

Truth matters, and ultimately people are impacted by their experiences. While countering people on SM is fine and also SM is useful tool to rally people; narratives have to be created outside the SM sphere by people from all walks of life who care about the country. Unless people step up, they cannot save themselves. However one of the vehicles, media, to disseminate this narration is surely breached. Suitable vehicle needs to be identified and created. Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitah.
GhorMaanas
Apr 25, 2015 at 4:41 PM
another case in point regarding propaganda - the brouhaha and rudaali over letting the LAB remain L(anti-)AB. now that Shekhar Coupta has tweeted that the new upcoming re-re-revised LAB is much better, perhaps the tormented souls will find some solace? not very likely, given the fact that the promises of development that the PM had made to the people require land, no opposition party would like to see him be able to fulfill them. antidote? a superior and damning PR campaign to rip-off the scare-mongering tactics!

recently came across a new interesting definition of an 'intellectual' - 'one who can chalantly or non-chalantly protest over both, the power plants as well as the power cuts, with impunity & without any sense of irony!'
G
gemini90 #24
Apr 25, 2015 at 4:58 PM
Nepal Earthquake - You will have to search through gutters to find such cretins -

Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta · 3h 3 hours ago

Another swine looking for trough. “@laveypj: Already our mission workers are there to help the people and tell them the goodness of Jesus.India is in need of knowing true God."

Just like they did after tsunami

Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta · 3h 3 hours ago

Suddenly swines all over. “@GlobalOutfittrs: Nepal rocked by magnitude 7.9 quake, fatalities certain. May they find Jesus' love & strength."

While the Indian Gov is working hard to provide relief sending 14 NDRF teams, C-17 , C-130.

PMO India retweeted
Narendra Modi @narendramodi · 12m 12 minutes ago

Spoke to PM Sushil Koirala, who is in transit in Bangkok on his way to Kathmandu. Assured all support & assistance during this tough time.

MOD Spokesperson: Indian Army Team in Mount Everest Area is safe and will now conduct rescue operations.
GhorMaanas
Apr 25, 2015 at 5:07 PM
very dedicated & zealous salesmen!
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gemini90 #27
Apr 25, 2015 at 10:39 PM
^^ They usually don't prefer to come out in the open.
beingGamer
Apr 25, 2015 at 10:57 PM
Well, the last time i visited my village in Bundelkhand, i saw posters regarding a community meeting to be held at the mela ground in the area. Expecting festivities, i went their with my cousins. What happened was totally unexpected. 3 foreigners (2 women, 1 man) + support team comprising of indians was present there. A statue of mary and jesus in a similar vein like this -> India protests over 'tribal' Virgin Mary and baby Jesus - BBC News

was present. They started off by putting forward a few of those indians to speak about their personal problems and how jesus, and by extension, the church has helped them overcome those problems. Meanwhile others from their group started approaching people individually.Then 1 foreign lady took up the mike started speaking in hindi (to my surprise) and spoke about the miracles of jesus + about a new church being constructed in the area and how it will be open to all, whether christians or not. On asking mu cousins, he told me that this is a monthly activity. Rest of the times, missionaries visit the household in the afternoon when men are at work in the fields to try and convince the womenfolk about their objectives. In similar vein to the saying that educating a women teaches the whole family. You get the idea, don't you? the pastor in church and missionaries also provide cheap loans + and other monetary help (like what happened after the tsunami last decade).

This is just one way how they mix up the local customs with their own religion to make it not seem as anything alien. Just like how we have christian yoga these days.

Reality is, in 2-3 years GOI has to solve ALL problems with FCRA so that they can start addressing the other routes. They need to probably amend laws to an extent where no money is allowed to Indian NGOs from abroad.

These donors have become experts at funneling money into India. BAM (business as mission) is their next frontier. You will realize that dealing with FCRA is child's play compared to dealing with BAM. There are dozens of american EJ investors who fund Indian x-ngos to start a company. So it will no more be an NGO, it will be a business. So it will be classified as FDI for business and will not be under the purview of the charitable donations act or FCRA. Only difference in this case is they will pay corporate tax.

So, EJ investors will provide Indian EJ's with seed capital to start businesses (can be as simple as a taxi service to a retail store), donate a portion of the ensuing profit to Indian x-tian ngos. So this will be totally out of the purview of the FCRA act since the ngo is receiving money from an Indian startup which in turn has given a part of its equity to an EJ investor abroad. So how on earth will Indian GOI go around monitoring this.

There is a solution though, a full blown anti conversion law (forced/voluntary), meaning no more freedom of religion in India. Now that can only be done if we have 10 more years of a Right Wing GOI. Only good news is that BAM is just taking shape, I have come across several cases of BAM, but its not a flood. But the more GOI tightens FCRA, more BAM money will come. But that will be 10 years from now before it reaches new highs, by then an anti conversion law is a must.

- - - Updated - - -

About that video, the excerpts of missionaries in their is not for our consumption. It is for the western public and entities who give financial support. I have met an old missionary during his journey to India, he had grown up with his parents (who were missionaries) in India. He was grandfather now, and his children also do mission work. There are many such families in Europe, totally dedicated to this path of converting Indians (even though local church attendance is record low).

As to why the western states give tacit support to this system, well that will be hitting the heart of the problem, namely use of religion for political means. For eg, the role of Bishop and cardinals during italian marine incident where they killed indian fishermen in indian waters.

Pick up the niyogi committee report - VINDICATED BY TIME - The Niyogi Committee Report

or books by Arun Shourie - Harvesting Our Souls or Missionaries in India. , By Rajiv Malhotra and few others and you will see what is happening away from our glare.

...................................................................................................

By the way, do you remember an incident which took in Haryana where the local people demolished a church in rural area. Exactly what was the need for a church in an area where according to census, not a single christian soul was present withing miles.

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION]
This *www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKjAADTaG8

Its the same ARARARARARARARA moment which was mentioned in this video - *www.youtube.com/watch?v=anQv44EHGsw
Anorion
Anorion #29
Apr 26, 2015 at 1:50 AM
ok. so what is the narrative where all is well.

what about this. No clue who this guy is.
GhorMaanas
Apr 26, 2015 at 5:54 PM
he's prashant bhushan, an SC lawyer and former AAP member (ie, if you were referring to him; remember his statement from 2013, about referendum in Kashmir?). although he also tends to be a borderline celebrity activist (in that, with getting cosy with the actual ones), which comprises of those who have developed their own cottage-industries out of Modi-bashing (like how he's harping here on the popular-propaganda of Adani receiving cheap [barren] land, using the pet-term of 'krantikaris' - 'crony capitalists' in his comments, while comfortably sleeping over the fact that the congress had sold a chunk of land at Andaman for 2p./sq. ft. or something). but why was he incensed is not clear....must be because the PM 'dared' to advise deva-avataars on earth from Indrapuram. Justice Dattu later on in his speech said something like the Judges of India are still headstrong and not to be influenced by partisan views. by all means, i believe the PM was referring to those 'activists' that his state govt. had close brushes with for more than a decade, and whom the country is suffering since quite some time. the closely-knit cronies here comprise of (but not limited to):

*i.imgur.com/dAMGLRMm.jpg

*i.imgur.com/exAV0Vmm.jpg

*i.imgur.com/FiMVqCum.jpg

*i.imgur.com/pc1zjl2m.jpg

*i.imgur.com/g9pK6eVl.jpg
(celebrity activist poseur, enjoying delicious paraatha and kadak chaay served by chhotu, after a day of heavy work shooting a documentary over child labour problem, and giving profound insights)

*i.imgur.com/05c18bnl.jpg
(budding celebrity activist, soon to join the valiant 'krantikari' brigade)

many more there, like aruna roy, vrinda grover, etc., etc.

there is no gender bias and discrimination in this coterie. many males too there, prafull bidwai, etc., and includes many already established and budding activists from bollywood too.

some characteristics of celebrity activists are the varying sizes of bindis, dishevelled hair or/and attire, high decibel levels, very choosy on 'projects', etc.

and then there are some like Baba Amte and Prakash Amte, and a surgeon working with them since his early days and treating tribal folk for 1-2 paisa, a 'gora' who runs an NGO and builds toilets for womenfolk all with his own money, Mr. Kailash Satyarthi, a gentleman in South India who runs an NGO to feed the mentally destitute in his city after he left his work for this and personally goes and feeds them with his hands, an NGO/start-up in Kolkata by a few youth who collect left-over food from homes and functions in the city and organise lunch/dinner for the needy at a makeshift hall, many unsung ones, who don't hog the limelight (for all the wrong reasons). the difference in these and the ones with the 'kaanta laga' ailment listed above would be amply clear.
G
gemini90 #31
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:12 PM
*pbs.twimg.com/media/CDlyICxUsAA3zco.jpg:large
Anorion
Anorion #32
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:18 PM
this is like playing connect the dots without the numbers, you can paint any picture you like
G
gemini90 #33
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:20 PM
How I am painting a picture when he is very clear with what he means? Isn't his message shows sanction for conversions from vatican itself unlike it being some fringe elements work which is the favorite theory of many secularists?
Anorion
Anorion #34
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:23 PM
not just you, the whole cluster of arguments and whataboutisms that is forcing silence and obedience on the sickularists. what is wrong with secularism suddenly.
don't care much for religion, but this particular pope is a role model for human beings
G
gemini90 #35
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:27 PM
Woh! You call a pope who makes such calls to his followers as a role model for human beings? Who trys to convert people in deep crisis rather than giving selfless service? Now you must know what is wrong with secularism when on the other hand they are the first call RSS nazis and fascists and Ghar Vapsi an evil and against the ideas enumerated by constitution.

And this is not the first time this call has been made by a pope. The last time a pope John Paul 2 visited India in 1999, he made a similar call, calling India fertile for conversions.

As twitter shows, #SoulVultures is apt term to decribe the whole lot of them.

And frankly, i don't have any problems with normal christians who themselves hardly visit the churches any more. it's the above lot which makes my blood boil - the clergy
Anorion
Anorion #36
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:40 PM
I donno what is so threatening about this. This country, it's people, and culture have withstood and survived millenia of assault, and we are worried about it now?
Is it anti-national to be worried that the government may make mistakes and prioritize wrong?
G
gemini90 #37
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:44 PM
It is a threat to demographics and culture of our country and at the same time a threat to our nation's sovereignty. And both can be illustrated and have been illustrated with examples in this thread previously.

- - - Updated - - -

Proselytization needs to be regulated with clear dos and donts in the same manner that freedom of expression, advertising etc are regulated with clear dos and donts in every region of the world (including in that "bastion" of individual freedom - the US of A).

Don't know why its so hard for some folks to grasp this fairly simple concept.
sling-shot
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:46 PM
The biggest fallacy is that another religion is a cure for all the social ills. There is no cure. As long as there is man (human being) there will be social ills.

Going from there, consider everything people are doing to get others to convert into their religion. One most common argument put forth is that of untouchables in Hinduism. I consider that untouchability as a practice was introduced because of difference in hygiene habits between them and the others. I do not touch a muddied person before he has taken bath from my own family let alone a stranger. On the contrary I have friends from such groups with whom I have shared a meal plate as their habits are sufficiently clean or better than mine.

Then the question of caste system. Caste system was not initially social, it was professional. If you study closely, at least Islam and Christianity both seem to have a caste system at times equally strict or not so much but still there. Groups have separate places of worship, do not mix well and sometimes even kill each other.

So all in all are they actually doing anything good for the people at all? They are only replacing one form of social evil with another.

So what is left is purely either political motive for the conversions or financial gains for those doing it/supporting it.

And all the so called ills plaguing our society could have been solved better with good education and time instead of increasing strife polarisation.

Hence the dislike for conversion.
G
gemini90 #39
Apr 27, 2015 at 4:53 PM
Imagine if Hindus burned down a symbolic church, what the uproar would be, how many resolutions from parliaments and congresses of western nations would be directed against India.

The front page New York Times story is how a 75-foot pagan temple was built to be burned, to unite the Protestants and Catholics of Ireland.

Healing Fire in Londonderry: The Temple Was Built to Burn

*www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/using-flames-to-soothe-a-northern-ireland-city-scarred-by-fire.html

This morning it seemed to me "Christianity unmasked" - "love Jesus" can't unite the Catholics and Protestants of Ireland, but "burn the pagan temple" can!

And this is the ideology that innumerable groups with limitless funding are seeking to spread through out Asia and Africa, under the cover of "religious freedom" and to the detriment of local cultures everywhere.
sling-shot
Apr 27, 2015 at 5:01 PM
People are asking what is wrong with conversions.

Well for one thing I would never like our country to be ruled by religious zealots who do not respect individual freedom.
Would they like to live in a place like ISIS ruled areas? That is what is wrong with conversion because it may lead to that.

RSS is so commonly criticised in media and by people. I too do not like somethings about them. But I am able to reason with them which would not be possible in the example above.
And the principles of RSS as far as I have seen from the behavior of a few is to eradicate the social evils such as untouchability and caste system. They treat everyone equally and also do a lot of social service in times of crisis.
G
gemini90 #41
Apr 27, 2015 at 5:12 PM
Indian Christians trapped in the politics of Ghar Wapsi? - Bharat Niti

The psychology of the Church is religiously and politically motivating. So they wanted a halo of martyrdom to all, because martyrs and saints are fuel material for the monstrous engines of the church (like jihadis for Islam) without which it cannot sustain.

So it is necessary to quote Dr S Radhakrishnan, our 2nd president. “The intolerance of narrow monotheism is written in letters of blood across the history of mankind from the time when first the tribes of Israel burst into the land of Canaan. The worshippers of the one Jealous God are egged on to aggressive wars against people of alien cults. They invoke Divine Sanction for the cruelties inflicted on the conquered. The spirit of old Israel is inherited by Christianity and Islam. Wars of Religion which are the outcome of fanaticism that prompts and justifies the extermination of aliens of different creeds are particularly unknown in Hindu India.” (The Hindu View of Life, 1927, Oxford University, p 55).

Before winding, let me quote Swapan Dasgupta, a senior journalist: who, referring to a large demonstration of Christians just days ahead of Delhi assembly polls and discussed how it was a signal for all to vote against the BJP, wrote: “Whatever the real motivations of the clergy of various Christian denominations, there is no doubt that it has succeeded in putting Christians at the centre of a previously non-existent political divide. …… These are just the opening shots of a political battle, using Christians as a human shield.” (Deccan Chronicle, April 3, 2015).
--> About that 'Use of religion for political power' thing i mentioned.
Anorion
Anorion #42
Apr 27, 2015 at 5:15 PM
well, at least what is wrong with christian yoga, maybe we can turn it around to our advantage right?
G
gemini90 #43
Apr 27, 2015 at 5:24 PM
How do you propose we do it?
Anorion
Anorion #44
Apr 27, 2015 at 5:49 PM
Tradition. Be tolerant.
V
vkl #45
Apr 27, 2015 at 7:36 PM
Ford provided money to finance frauds like Teesta Setalvad.
Financing people who can go on for strike...Medha Patkar types come to mind..delayed SarDar Sarovar Dam causing loses.These types generally would try to stop power plants and other areas where country is self-dependant.They have funded,created strikes for stopping coal based thermal plants, hydel plants,nuclear plant.
Could certainly would have caused for more troubles and dependannce.Once in a while they will take up something good just to show that they are on a "good" path.Political activism from these organizations should be checked.While UPA govt. gave them a free hand to do whatever they wanted..this Govt. seems lot better in those regard.
Greenpeace: Brewing trouble for Indian tea - Oneindia
beingGamer
Apr 27, 2015 at 8:18 PM
Ford provided money to finance frauds like Teesta Setalvad.
Financing people who can go on for strike...Medha Patkar types come to mind..delayed SarDar Sarovar Dam causing loses.These types generally would try to stop power plants and other areas where country is self-dependant.They have funded,created strikes for stopping coal based thermal plants, hydel plants,nuclear plant.
Could certainly would have caused for more troubles and dependannce.Once in a while they will take up something good just to show that they are on a "good" path.Political activism from these organizations should be checked.While UPA govt. gave them a free hand to do whatever they wanted..this Govt. seems lot better in those regard.
Greenpeace: Brewing trouble for Indian tea - Oneindia

AAP party is one of them.
also recent news was about Anna Hazare is getting funded by the same.
GhorMaanas
Apr 27, 2015 at 9:43 PM
Anna Hazare being funded by Ford or such pets seems very doubtful to me. his case seems to me a reformer now turning senile and surrounded by pretentious 'advisers' with either not the best of intentions or info, or both.

this nation & civilisation has (inculcated) the criminally blunderous tradition/pattern of being disastrously ultra-tolerant & permissive with least regard for the collective whole self, and unassuming in identifying its well-wishers from its enemies, from the savages from the mid-east, to the masquerader marauder robert clive (welcomed by lakhs of people showering rose petals after his deceptive 'victory'), and the saga continues callously yet wilfully. all the turmoil, chaos, running-around begins and ensues, to put it in the american lingo, after the sh** starts hitting the fan, or aptly, well after it has hit it.
Renny
Renny #48
Apr 29, 2015 at 7:58 PM
All these foreign funds are diverted towards anti-development causes and communists. Maybe a part of it also goes into the pockets of the print and television MSM?

Enough of being tolerant.
GhorMaanas
Apr 29, 2015 at 8:22 PM
....Maybe a part of it also goes into the pockets of the print and television MSM?....

wouldn't be a surprise if it comes to fore that some of the media houses too get their 'cuts'. of the about 11-12k crores of foreign funds received by nearly 20L NGOs in the country, only 2% of them file their annual returns. why won't MHA's eyebrows be raised? also, remember the case of financial irregularities and misappropriation of funds or something like that found in NDTV's books some years back? undiTV should have been nailed then & there! though don't know what came of it.
snap
snap #50
Apr 30, 2015 at 12:01 AM
This thread feels like a conspiracy nutjob gathering :lol:
GhorMaanas
Apr 30, 2015 at 1:30 AM
the warmth of cosiness & comfort in the 'aal is well' brand of quilt can certainly induce such a perception. :thumbs:
G
gemini90 #52
May 9, 2015 at 2:46 PM
Both German and US ambassadors are interfering in matters they have no locus standi. They represent the interests of their gov. alone and have no stake in NGO issue unless the latter indeed are the non official arms of their gov's. Sponsoring NGOs gives the western countries vast infrastructure into the country to overlay any kind of mischievous acts without putting the foot in the country.

Anti-NGO action could have "chilling effect" on civil society: US Ambassador - The Hindu

German Ambassador to India Urges Support of International NGOs


The global narrative is clear - Religious conversion is not a bad thing. It is an expression of the freedoms we earned by being part of a democracy. Anyone who blocks religious conversion is undemocratic.

The global narrative has to change to - Religious conversion destroys cultures and diversity. It is cultural rape. Hinduism et. al. are the real minority religions in the world and they are endangered by a rampant virus. It is our duty as the human race to preserve these religions.

Until the latter is the globally acceptable narrative, no one can step up and utter a word about conversion.

But as it goes, from wiki

Article 7 of a 1994 draft of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples uses the phrase "cultural genocide" but does not define what it means.[8] The complete article reads as follows:

Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for:
(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;
(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources;
(c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights;
(d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures;
(e) Any form of propaganda directed against them.
This declaration only appeared in a draft. The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly during its 62nd session at UN Headquarters in New York City on 13 September 2007, but only mentions "genocide", not "cultural genocide", although the article is otherwise unchanged.

Cultural genocide has not been accepted as a term by UNO due to pressure of western countries. The same is the case in form of ICC -International Criminal Court which is not part of UN unlike International Court of Justice. Nor is it similar to Interpol in coverage.

The ICC has the jurisdiction to prosecute individuals for the international crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. The ICC is intended to complement existing national judicial systems and it may therefore only exercise its jurisdiction when certain conditions are met, such as when national courts are unwilling or unable to prosecute criminals or when the United Nations Security Council or individual states refer investigations to the Court.

That's the story on the surface. The ICC is really meant to serve one primary purpose: circumvent African and Asian efforts to seek restitution for colonial plunder. By controlling the arms of prosecution, the Europeans ensure they don't face the consequences of their actions. Asians did not sign the treaty but Africans fell for it.
GhorMaanas
May 26, 2015 at 12:34 PM
anyone seeing this/such a mail in circulation? @gemini90, @beingGamer, @vkl?

Dear friends,

The most persecuted peoples on our earth are right now taking to ‘floating coffins’ to flee violence and seek sanctuary for their families. But instead of responding with humanity, our governments are closing their doors, letting them starve and drown at sea.

The Mediterranean and Andaman Seas are becoming graveyards.

Burma is driving the Rohingya out, and thousands of families are drifting helplessly at sea, forced to drink their own urine because Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia had turned them away. Syrians and Africans risk drowning every week off the coast of Southern Europe, braving the terrifying crossing as their last hope to escape torture, hunger, and traffickers.

We are facing the biggest refugees crisis since World War II, but so far governments have let them die in a climate of rising xenophobia. Now it has reached a crisis, and our community has a unique chance to jam the culture of fear with a wave of compassion.

If we each chip in a small amount now, we’ll help fund rescue operations at sea; build an Avaaz refugee team to assist those missions and resettlement, and create effective lobby cells to get leaders to open up borders; and launch ads to counter the racism.

Together we can help rescue refugees, and rescue our shared humanity.

Unless we act fast, 2015 could become the year of the boat people!

Pledge to urgently launch the Avaaz refugee campaign -- Avaaz will only process your donations if we raise enough to start saving lives:

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹150, enough for an emergency thermal blanket

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹300, enough for a meal pack for a rescued child

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹750, enough to provide water for six refugees

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹1500, enough to print 10 hard-hitting posters to stop refugee racism

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹3750, enough to rent a satellite phone for refugees on boats to share their stories with journalists


To pledge another amount, click here.
Avaazers have already kick-started this campaign in the UK. The government has only allowed in 143 Syrians out of the 4 million refugees! In response, over 1,000 Avaazers have joined forces to challenge this disgraceful policy by offering to help refugees resettle, and calling on their local councils to give homes to 50 Syrian refugees each. Already 4 councils have agreed and with our pressure, we hope many more will too.

But this isn’t just a UK and Syria problem. It is a crisis of humanity when our planet’s most vulnerable are treated as criminals and left to die. Here’s a five point plan of the most critical actions Avaaz could take if we raise enough together:

  1. Support organisations that are bravely rescuing the refugees at sea.
  2. Launch Flotillas for Humanity with more private boats to assist rescue operations.
  3. Build an Avaaz refugee team to lobby governments, the EU and the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) to push for effective search and rescue operations, and increased numbers of refugee places.
  4. Support local groups in Europe and South East Asia to provide assistance to refugees arriving in reception centres, and into communities.
  5. Run hard hitting billboards and newspaper ads to counter the culture of xenophobia.
30 thousand refugees could drown in the Mediterranean this year. These families are fleeing terror and misery, and their choice to board a boat may be the only choice they have. Let’s join forces to stop these tragedies at sea. Pledge now:

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹150, enough for an emergency thermal blanket

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹300, enough for a meal pack for a rescued child

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹750, enough to provide water for six refugees

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹1500, enough to print 10 hard-hitting posters to stop refugee racism

YES, I'LL PLEDGE ₹3750, enough to rent a satellite phone for refugees on boats to share their stories with journalists


To pledge another amount, click here.

Our community is one of the only in the world with millions of citizens in both the countries from which these families are fleeing and the countries they are seeking help. We have already funded extraordinary work to tackle Ebola and humanitarian work in Nepal. Now let’s take on this emergency and catalyse change with acts of inspired love and inspired bravery.

With hope and determination,

Alice, Ben, Oli, Diego, Mais, Emily, Dalia, Ricken and the Avaaz team.
beingGamer
May 26, 2015 at 3:23 PM
anyone seeing this/such a mail in circulation? @gemini90, @beingGamer, @vkl?


That looks clearly as a scam mail to receive donations in the name of helping crisis struck people.
We will never know where that money went
GhorMaanas
May 26, 2015 at 4:13 PM
the donation-pages look genuine; the parent-site too has the same pic and links to the same pages. the purpose, not so.
Ironman
Ironman #56
May 27, 2015 at 12:20 AM
We will never know where that money went

Do We know where out taxes go to ?:twisted: Swiss bank or Somewhere else

Do we know where the money we donate to the state government for NEPAL or some other extreme situation actually reaches there or not ?:shock:
G
gemini90 #57
Jun 7, 2015 at 3:45 PM
Ford Foundation an entity outside law

Ford Foundation an entity outside law: Officials
Despite the fact that no papers appear to have been submitted to the government to ensure that it was an entity functioning as per the domestic laws in India, the Ford Foundation opened a bank account in India, at first with CitiBank and subsequently with American Express, before moving back to Citi 15 years ago. As Know Your Customer (KYC) forms were not filled in, some officials claim that these bank accounts are legally untenable, and that to date, documentation needed as per law to open a bank account in India has not been furnished by the Foundation to any authority. Interestingly, Raghuram Rajan, who as RBI Governor has placed curbs after curbs on the smooth operation in financial matters of Indian entities, does not seem to have reacted or even noticed such apparent disregard of Indian laws by the Foundation, which has, according to high officials, set up its Delhi office on land taken at a token cost from the government, again on the basis of records which seem non-existent.

When Home Minister Rajnath Singh asked the MHA to raise such matters with the Foundation, the reply came not from itself, but from a US Department of State spokesperson, as well as US envoy to India, Richard Verma, both of whom strongly condemned Government of India for its effrontery in seeking to enforce the provisions of law on an entity which acts as though it is an independent entity subject to its own laws, rather than an institution needing to respect local laws and regulations. Albeit those which no government except the present has enforced, from 1952, the year in which "Chacha" Nehru acted as a benevolent uncle by, in practice, waiving any need for the Ford Foundation to follow Indian law. The US State Department also protested in very minatory terms about the MHA's recent cancellation of the FCRA licences of 9,000 NGOs, who have not filed returns for five consecutive years or more, raising doubts as to its real intentions in the context of developments in Eastern Europe, North Africa and West Asia, all locations where NGOs backed by Washington have been active in replacing the ballot with the street as the appropriate forum for regime change. In each such intervention, chaos has resulted.

ask FF and US SD replies. Same as in russia.

Russia's Putin signs law against 'undesirable' NGOs - BBC News

Supporters of the new bill say it is essential to prevent Russia from outside interference, amid ongoing tensions due to Russia's involvement in Ukraine.

But there was concern from Western governments and NGOs about the implications.

The US state department said it was "deeply troubled" by the law.