Gujarat riots a genocide; Modi sanctioned it: Tehelka

Investigative weekly Tehelka on Thursday claimed to have unravelled the truth behind the 2002 Gujarat riots.

Tehelka claimed it had 'irrefutable' evidence that the killings of Muslims post-Godhra train carnage in Gujarat was 'not a spontaneous swell of anger but a genocide' planned and executed by top functionaries of the Sangh Parivar and state authorities 'with the sanction' of Chief Minister Narendra Modi.

Addressing a press conference in New Delhi, Tehelka Editor-in-Chief Tarun Tejpal claimed that the magazine had carried out a sting operation over the last six months by talking to a number of Sangh Parivar leaders, including Godhra BJP MLA Haresh Bhatt, Shiv Sena leader Babu Bajrangi, who was earlier in the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, and VHP leaders Anil Patel and Dhawal Jayanti Patel, to bring out the truth.

"We have evidence that bombs were being made in the VHP office premises," Harinder Baweja, Editor (Investigations), told rediff.com.

"In Tehelka's ground breaking investigations, for the first time, hear the truth of the genocidal killings from the men who actually did it. In shocking disclosures, Chief Minister Narendra Modi came and patted the back of criminals, and told them that they had done a good job," Baweja said.

The Bharatiya Janata Party has reacted sharply to the magazine's report stating that Tehelka was acting as CIA (Congress Investigating Agency) and it was a collusive sting, which could hardly be called investigative journalism.

Party spokesman Prakash Javedekar said the 'dirty tricks department' of the Congress was at work again in view of the assembly elections in Gujarat.

None of the leaders caught on camera in the expose was available for comments, except Gujarat VHP leader Dhawal Jayanti Patel who said Bajrangi had not talked to him during the riots and that he had not seen the sting operation.

Bhatt was purportedly caught on tape saying he was present in a meeting in which Modi allegedly gave him three days time 'to do whatever they wanted.'

"After three days, he (Modi) asked to stop and everything came to a halt," Bhatt said, adding that the chief minister thanked them after the Naroda Patiya masssacre.

The magazine claimed that Dhawal Jayanti Patel told its undercover reporter that the VHP activists made lots of bombs in a factory owned by him. A BJP MLA was shown as saying they even made rocket launchers, which were used in the pogrom.

It also claimed that it has exposed 'a trail of lies and coercions' that establishes the fire in coach S-6 of the Sabarmati Express in Godhra on February 27, 2002 was a case of spontaneous mob fury and not a pre-meditated conspiracy as stated by the Gujarat government.

Additional Reportage: PTI

*www.rediff.com/news/2007/oct/25godhra.htm

And its on Aaj Tak right now.This is really unbelievable.

yay I saw that on news in the morning.Lets see what happens.

Hmm...I dunno what to say...strangely, this doesn't surprise me, even if its true or false...

good thing that no debate is going on over here on this issue...lets keep it this way.....

and frankly guys, im frm ahmedabad and even here no one is talking abt it..... ppl just feel that its no use talking abt it or doing something abt it now..

politicians give a bad name to India. While we in digit forums get along with people of all backgrounds, and some(like me) are even atheist, politicians like modi make Indians look like a bunch of blood-thirsty mongrels

the media makes the whole thing seem so one sided. muslims are projected as victims and hindu's as the wrong doers...thats not true...both hindu's and muslims were killed...and nobody talks about the ppl killed in godhra, but the best bakery case has been made front page news...everybody has forgotten about the kar sevaks...

^^but we are talking about the political system here. Ordinary muslims and Ordinary hindus get along very well. When I used to stay in Ahmedabad, I had a christian and a muslim as best friends(I used to be a hindu)

the media is troublesome due to its nature: they follow the three S's :

Spam
Sensationalise
Sell

MetalheadGautham said:
^^but we are talking about the political system here. Ordinary muslims and Ordinary hindus get along very well. When I used to stay in Ahmedabad, I had a christian and a muslim as best friends(I used to be a hindu)

the media is troublesome due to its nature: they follow the three S's :

Spam
Sensationalise
Sell

Yes you are right.Its about politics and who was the mastermind behind this riot.Both hindus and muslims got killed.And these bajrang dals,vhp guys are no less than terrorists.

Q

nix said:
the media makes the whole thing seem so one sided. muslims are projected as victims and hindu's as the wrong doers...thats not true...both hindu's and muslims were killed...and nobody talks about the ppl killed in godhra, but the best bakery case has been made front page news...everybody has forgotten about the kar sevaks...

kar sevaks...... was also did my modi.... its all ready cleared in news papers so ppls need not to talk about the cleared things.......

Modi must hang to death.... it would be a lesson for other politicians....

qadirahmed said:
kar sevaks...... was also did my modi.... its all ready cleared in news papers so ppls need not to talk about the cleared things.......

What when where,

Any sources, references, proofs?

gaurav_indian said:
Yes you are right.Its about politics and who was the mastermind behind this riot.Both hindus and muslims got killed.And these bajrang dals,vhp guys are no less than terrorists.

Yup . It's not whether Hindus or Muslims were killed .

The bigger issue is that People , Indian Citizens were killed just on a mere whim of Modi !

T

Do not use words like HIndus or Muslims were killed.. Fact remains that dirty politicians irrespective of what party they belong are known to use / create such issues for there own good [To achieve "Satta"] and care zero for life of innocent civilians.

^^Totally agree

Q

@ Tech_wiz

yes Dude i agree with u....... but that party belongs to the Hindu's and make issues about Hindusium.....

for example if any Jehadi party did any bomb blast or any thing else... whole media blames to all world muslims not only to that particular party....

Note: Dont be misunderstand me...

You said to achive Satta..... so if they do riots then ppls may vote them Because they killed Innocent muslims.....?

How can Modi still be CM of Gujarat?I know that his ways are liked by many because of the violence done by the other religion.still modi does what nobody can imagine.killing people on basis of religion.but if as a Hindu,he shud have got a lil more tolerance.we are Hindustani's whatever the word means and we(majority) are not learned and brought up like the way they make terrorists in pakistan,kashmir or Al-qaeda.
but,again the provocation non-muslims faces are...
see the below video for the tolerance of Christians or say Europe and USA:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hBXHtQDxOo
^^^
YOU MUST SEE!

T

qadirahmed said:
@ Tech_wiz

yes Dude i agree with u....... but that party belongs to the Hindu's and make issues about Hindusium.....

for example if any Jehadi party did any bomb blast or any thing else... whole media blames to all world muslims not only to that particular party....

Note: Dont be misunderstand me...

You said to achive Satta..... so if they do riots then ppls may vote them Because they killed Innocent muslims.....?

1. BJP used the ram mandir issue to achieve a vote bank of higher cast / Hindus to achieve there own goals in politics.

2. Congress & Samajwadi Paryt are known to practically butt kiss Muslims to get the Share of the Vote bank which they know is against BJP.

3. Already some states have alloted resrved seats to Muslims. Still I dont understand on what basis as Muslims comprise of almost 15 -20% of India and cant be considered has Minority to be honest. Only reason that makes sense is that to get their Vote Bank.

This is perticulary evident in states where BJP is getting stronger.

So morale of story is Political Parties will and are jumping where there is a ooputunity ti achieve a vote bank in their bags. They really dont care for anything else than that. Its the truth.

Also Plz dont called Terrorist outfits as "Jehadis"

That term derserve more value, respect and meaning than what it is currently being assumed.

Fact is that Countries where terrorism is getting nourished are mainly Muslim dominated states. eg Pakistan, Afganishtan etc.

As long as they were doing terrorism in India the term of "Muslim Terrorism" was not there imho. Indian Goverment nor media at that Time mentioned anything abt Islam. But when terrorists targeted US & ally states the Bad words abt Islam were highlighted and spread by their media. And the term "islamic terrorism" was born. Even though there are also terrorist groups active in Ireland and other parts of the world which are mainly Chritians. But they never get highlighted.

and as media guys are also working for Money now a days they will just post anything crap that will give TRP.

Terrorist have attacked Mandirs, Darga and Mosques the same way. They are stateless religionless brainwashed jerks. They dont belong or deserve to be called as Humans.

I have friends in all religions also in Pakistan. All religions ask for peace and justice but unfortunately some evil minded people use the Religion to influence young people and use it to brain wash them to achieve their own goals than doing anything good to the religion. [i.e. So called Jehadis & some Bajrang Dal / VHP Memebrs alike.]

ps: Just to again clarify myself. I dont belong or support any political party as such. I got friends in all religions and respect their values because all of them mean to achieve the same thing. I am just totally against anything that is using religion to defy the basic values of humanity..

^ +1...great post!! totally agree!!

this thread is Becoming moore and moore religious
dont take world's like Hindhu's or muslim's guy's plzz (rather use other one)
its makin inscure feeeling

^^this thread is not getting religious! ppl are just saying that somebody else is

our former generations have all been raised based on the following ideals:

elder's voice is law
people of other castes and religions are not to be mingled with
arranged marriage is the best
science is nonsence
convert the world to your religion
my religion is good and the rest are bad
what you think is service to god is service to humanity

...And that's why we lag behind. It is already a task to learn the reality, and to convince our families is a bigger one. The digit forums reflects the views of the newer India. we don't find orthodox prople here, so there is no use discussing this topic here.

wo log sudherange nahi. bas aradhana karo ki we jaldi mar jaye aur humko mukth kare

T

^^ Mentioning those words is fine as long as you dont disrespct or flame them in the post.

Tech_Wiz said:
^^ Mentioning those words is fine as long as you dont disrespct or flame them in the post.

sorry, no flame intended. the post only reflects my personal views...

anyway, how is it flaming?

T

MetalheadGautham said:
^^this thread is not getting religious! ppl are just saying that somebody else is

our former generations have all been raised based on the following ideals:

elder's voice is law

people of other castes and religions are not to be mingled with

arranged marriage is the best

science is nonsence

convert the world to your religion

my religion is good and the rest are bad

what you think is service to god is service to humanity

...And that's why we lag behind. It is already a task to learn the reality, and to convince our families is a bigger one. The digit forums reflects the views of the newer India. we don't find orthodox prople here, so there is no use discussing this topic here.

wo log sudherange nahi. bas aradhana karo ki we jaldi mar jaye aur humko mukth kare

I am not totally agreeing with your post mate. I will post my views in detail on this when I finish the office work ^^

MetalheadGautham said:
sorry, no flame intended. the post only reflects my personal views...

anyway, how is it flaming?

Taht post was intended for the Post above you

Q

praka123 said:
How can Modi still be CM of Gujarat?I know that his ways are liked by many because of the violence done by the other religion.still modi does what nobody can imagine.killing people on basis of religion.but if as a Hindu,he shud have got a lil more tolerance.we are Hindustani's whatever the word means and we(majority) are not learned and brought up like the way they make terrorists in pakistan,kashmir or Al-qaeda.
but,again the provocation non-muslims faces are...
see the below video for the tolerance of Christians or say Europe and USA:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hBXHtQDxOo
^^^
YOU MUST SEE!

first about the video........ I agree that all are true..... and she cleared the things very well and i need not to repeat it again....

How can modi still be cm......? who know while the person who can change even the judges of courts...... he may do fake votes too....

India k ander kuch bhi ho sakta hai tum kuch bhi baich sakte ho aur kuch bhi khareed sakte ho.... is desh ka kuch bhi nahi hoga..

if a thief caught in case of robbery instead of cut his hands they Prison him with other thieves to get learn more…. This is called india

your talking about majority.......? better u say majority of foolssssss who does not believe in truth.........

@ praka

see this
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHSHGrs7si4

when ur going to make it like this one..........?

see how coward the english ppls are just like u....

hahahah

dude!dont get frustrated!i said nothing against human beings.the videos that are showing reality.
we,other religion ppl or atheists are getting our peace lost because of what is shown in the video.we dont want terrorism.and the main source of terrorism after narzis are coming from ....u know what those who follows the BOOK exactly and interpret(well it is directly said to cut) it to Kill non-muslims.
My que is:arent we human beings?cant these people have no other work than getting America doomed and make the whole world imposed by a 7th century bloody culture?I know,I know what it will be like-maulavi's banning TVs(happened in my place) ,dogs and threatening shop owners to close shops on fridays.posting hoardings and papers on towns to say "insha-allah Kasmir will be liberated from India" etc.
I said-First be an Indian rather than eating what all are pressed into the brain by the community.
unlike Islamists,other religion except few protestant christian groups in ireland we are not against any religion,infact America vs Arab world is featured by the imaginative hardcore ustads and maulvis as Christianity vs Islam wth?wtf?infact EU and americas are full of atheists!
who cares?I dont ever seen a christian terrorist.Islamists foul cry for Muslims been victimized

I think you know what it will be for a non-muslim to be in gulf esp saudi-arabia and even turkey,Indonesia etc.saud wahabbis are the main source of terrorism been spreaded to Islam.christians,jews are dhimmis.hindus are not at all tolerated-they are acc. to book...i dont want to say what it describes about idolters.
Not all muslims follow word by word of BOOK.Tfhat make them human beings.the education can make a big change.although what @kafeel mohd done in England is rather unexpected.Now the religion is not of peace,but of FUD(fear,uncertainity and doubt)

even nazis were better than islamic terrorists atleast what they did in openly and their work was not on basis of religion .....

Ever heard hitler saying we are killing jews in name of christ.. Hitler was an Agnostic

hey guys where can i find the video which shows Modi promoting the Riots ...
i searched lots of forums .. no website lists tht video ... tehelka has blocked it ..

America vs Arab world is featured by the imaginative hardcore ustads and maulvis as Christianity vs Islam

That is a real good point. If one cares to dig deep, most of these so called "jihads", almost always stems from economical and political crisis. But, it is always given a religious spin.

dont ever seen a christian terrorist

I guess Klu-Klux-Klan would fit the bill just fine.

my Request Lock the thread
guy's this thread is taking wrong turn's

Klu Klux Klan wasn't a Christian outfit...just racist...

True........in its core, it "is" a racist outfit, white v/s black, and political as well.

But am yet to hear of a muslim or a jew, or a sikh, or a hindu, or a whatever, Klan member.

We are discussing "terrorism" and that too co-ordinated ones. By that measure, the Klan does fall into the category of terrorism. The same way as RSS does.

BTW, why is it that whenever a debate goes into some sort of controversial topic, kids start asking for locking it up. I understand, mature debate can look intimidating for some. But come on. Give adults a break.

^may i say about Bhindranwalla and all and terror for khalistan?

^^ i am glad that someone mentioned it.

@Karnivore: They ask for it to be locked because nothing good ever comes of it...

Q

we,other religion ppl or atheists are getting our peace lost because of what is shown in the video

If i tell what the hindusim teaching in schools then....... here it goes
you ppls worship to each and every thing sorry its none of my matter… u ppls worship to cow too… so this is what u teach in schools….. if a muslim slaughter 10 cows in a year (our god) so if we kill 2 muslims in a year then how many cows would get their life back….? So prevent 20 cows what we have to do…….?
This is the things u ppls teach in schools

u know what those who follows the BOOK exactly and interpret(well it is directly said to cut) it to Kill non-muslims.

can u explain me why that verses have said to......? without knowledge of it dont talk any thing..... as per she said in video..... if u take the verses out of context u loose the meaning of it.... even there is lot of war rules in our religion better u gone and read it first.....
sorry dont request me to explain it here...

My que is:arent we human beings?cant these people have no other work than getting America doomed and make the whole world imposed by a 7th century bloody culture?

first of all Mind ur language...... me too know to speak ur language better than u..... ( you coward)..... we are being shut untill any one take a finger on us..... u dont know what america planing is......? india is going to sale very soon in hands of america By N.deal..... come on now tell me from where the terrorists are getting weapons from.........? have u ever thnk about it....? it sold by america..... Does America found the n. Bomb in iraq......? the first Terrorist is America..... sorry ur not going to understand this coz its out of ur range

threatening shop owners to close shops on fridays

its a compulsary rule for muslims not to do business on the time of friday prayer........ if they are forced to non muslim... then u must talk them instead of making it as a big issue....

. posting hoardings and papers on towns to say "insha-allah Kasmir will be liberated from India" etc

Dont worry this will not happen in ur's nor in my life time coz... jews, and chirst wont let it to be come calm.... if it become calm..... then who would buy their weapons.......? see india has joined in N.deal too....
so stop worrying about kashmir and start thinking some thing else

What do u know about kashmir......? i know better than u.. what is happening there

I said-First be an Indian rather than eating what all are pressed into the brain by the community.

what do u mean by indian..........? like fool....? if the indian cricket team would win the cup to appreciate and if loose then to throw stone at their house....? like this or to worship each and every stone's and under water bridge......?

I dont ever seen a christian terrorist.Islamists foul cry for Muslims been victimized I think you know what it will be for a non-muslim to be in gulf esp saudi-arabia and even turkey,Indonesia etc.saud wahabbis are the main source of terrorism been spreaded to Islam.christians,jews are dhimmis.hindus are not at all tolerated-they are acc. to book.

How could u see.......? there is a screen in ur eyes.... Now tell me who are they who killed black ppls........ wont they are terrorists....? who are the srilankan ltt......? freedom fighters.....? (i have a big list to mention) if Just a person who name will be like a muslim if he do slap to any human media would say him like a Terrorist....

Here I wish to tell u one story… in America an American citizen saved a woman from dog bite next day news paper says our nation super hero saved a woman from dog bite

If that person would be a Indian, news paper would say, a foreigner saved a woman from dog bite

If that would be a muslim, then new paper would say, a muslim terrorist had attacked a dog.. this is what is happening wit ours

You better go and say this information to America they would reward u....

what is meant by acc....?

Not all muslims follow word by word of BOOK

if he/she would not follow any of the verse of BOOK then he/she would not be a muslim

Now the religion is not of peace

see by our sight u would find the peace.... and intelligence tooo

Best of luck

bhai logon kyu fight kar rahe ho.
And qadir maine kabhi school ki books main nahi para ke if you kill 2 muslims then cows will get their life back.

Sorry dont mind but where are u from?

@qadirahmed: Dude...although I am a Muslim, same as you...I have only 2 things to say here:

1) This thread is going to get flamed so damn bad, I'm unsubscribing right now...dont want to check in just to read another religious diatribe.

2) You are the reason Muslims' name all over the world is screwed up and I think you need to either shut up or open your eyes. There are plenty of things wrong with our community that we need to fix before we point fingers at anyone else. Shame on you.

Au revoir amigos! I'm off this thread now...

faraaz said:
Au revoir amigos! I'm off this thread now...

arey iska meaning toh batate jao yaar.

Means goodbye friends...and I lied...I can't leave the thread now! Have to see what responses I get! Too much fun!

@qadirahmed:

If i tell what the hindusim teaching in schools then....... here it goes
you ppls worship to each and every thing sorry its none of my matter… u ppls worship to cow too… so this is what u teach in schools….. if a muslim slaughter 10 cows in a year (our god) so if we kill 2 muslims in a year then how many cows would get their life back….? So prevent 20 cows what we have to do…….?
This is the things u ppls teach in schools

I don't know where u learned abt this but in all my educational life i never came across a question even remotely similar to this. Just because muslims believe in a single god and hindus worship many gods doesnt mean that one is good and the other is bad.

first of all Mind ur language...... me too know to speak ur language better than u..... ( you coward)..... we are being shut untill any one take a finger on us..... u dont know what america planing is......? india is going to sale very soon in hands of america By N.deal..... come on now tell me from where the terrorists are getting weapons from.........? have u ever thnk about it....? it sold by america..... Does America found the n. Bomb in iraq......? the first Terrorist is America..... sorry ur not going to understand this coz its out of ur range

First of act on ur own advice. since we r not gonna understand , oh please enlighten us O! wise one.

what do u mean by indian..........? like fool....? if the indian cricket team would win the cup to appreciate and if loose then to throw stone at their house....? like this or to worship each and every stone's and under water bridge......?

I think u didnt understand abt the point. let me xplain in simple words. By thinking as an Indian it is meant abt thinking abt our country first and put it and its citizens first before taking sides on the basis of caste n creed.
And what do you mean by worshipping an underwater bridge? Not all Indians are Hindus and certainly this is a part of Hindu mythology, no connection whatsoever.

@faraaz : Nice reply dude! Dont leave the thread please , we need sane ones like u to keep the thread meaningful.

A

absolute bull ****...tehelka is full of crap....

^^ whatever the case but u cant deny such things did happen ...... as a decent human being we should be ashamed of such happenings in society.

the title of the thread is wrong and misleading....you are being one-sided.. modi did not sanction it. whatever happened was in retaliation. it should not have happened. actually, indians are much more tolerant towards other cultures than anyone else...esp when you compare us to our neighbours like pakistan and bangladesh...where human rights are violated daily on the streets...religious extremism is at its peak in those countries...and india is turning a blind eye to it. very sad. even in kashmir..where the minority community is under constant thread. pandits are frequent targets of terrorists in kashmir. yet, indian govt is thinking of pulling troops out. very sad...

stupid stuff >>>>>> [left ear] [mind rejects] [right ear] >>>>>>> goes away

selective ignorance is bless

Why People forget 1984 Sikh genocide , which was accomplished by Rajiv gandhi and Co ...

Since Muslims are big vote bank for seculars thats why only they are remembered ...

T

Some "Smart" People ask to Vote us to the right candidate.......

Two guys stood up for elections [Both had criminal record and a bunch od **** to go with that] as others just "pulled off"

Now prob is whom to Vote?

One with 5 Murder cases or one with 4 murder case and 2 theft charges?

Same happens when you think of voting for any Party.

Q

faraaz said:
@qadirahmed: Dude...although I am a Muslim, same as you...I have only 2 things to say here:

1) This thread is going to get flamed so damn bad, I'm unsubscribing right now...dont want to check in just to read another religious diatribe.

2) You are the reason Muslims' name all over the world is screwed up and I think you need to either shut up or open your eyes. There are plenty of things wrong with our community that we need to fix before we point fingers at anyone else. Shame on you.

@ Tech wiz....
Nice question dude...... i think we must not vote any one let the governor rule it once...

Au revoir amigos! I'm off this thread now...

first of all am going to reply this guy..... soon ill reply to all if i can....

thanks for unsubscribed this thread u better stay away from here we need not ur comments here....... first go and learn our religion..... Good Bye u coward........ dont reply again......

@ gauvay : Dude am not talking about Our school days... am talking about todays school subjects..... soon ill prove it...... its ok Dude i didnt mind any of ur word....

@qadir: Yo dude, you ain't going to get rid of me that easy!

Learn our religion? What about it? About how we exploit and abuse women, and call it right? Or the fact that MANY of us are complicit in the atrocities taking place across the world? I get it...Muslims are abused and discriminated against across the world, and so some of them retaliate...but this is a vicious, neverending circle which is going to end up with the Middle East nuked and communal riots all over India...

What else you want me to learn about our religion? About how intolerant it is? Arey yaar, atleast the Hindus and Christians acknowledge other faiths, and are more accepting of different beliefs...what do we say? Kill them all!? They are all Kaafirs and are by default, at birth into any religion other than Islam, condemned to hell unless they convert?

One more thing...I do namaaz everyday, I keep my rozas, I dont drink, I don't eat pork, I believe in Allah, and I do everything a good Muslim is supposed to. But if you are telling me to act like the small, narrow-minded sonofa'gun' (got warned already so I will refrain from foul language here) YOU are...I'm sorry. I'm better than that.

T

calm down guys....lets not to much personal

PS: I really feel that India Needs a good dictator

Faith in Democracy .. I am loosing it ... Just my personal view... nothing more.

Or atleast ban any guy for Life time to contend in any elections if any of the criminal activity is proved against him. [Well if this happens it will be real shortage of candidates in Bihar atleasrt

]

I believe minority rights are well preserved in India compared to Bangladesh or Pakistan.
But...lately we are witnessing a violent face of Hinduism through RSS,ABVP(students) etc.ppl like Narendr Modi and Praveen Togadia is trying to do what the title says genocide to some extent

there is no unity in diversity inside *most* indians.I think people should be first be proud and courteous to their nation rather than religion.if India became instable due to this religious problems created by [..] it will affect the total South asia too.wars and more and more loss to all.so first nation,then religion-which you can keep it to yourself.

Q

this link is for my foolish Brother faraaz
*uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1irxNIDrxwo

and i request to other member also to watch this video and understand better about islam..... and i request to watch related videos too.....

@ Tech wiz...... Bro superb thought... and good example of Ananth singh...
but when our thought will come in rule.....? and what we have to do for it....?

@ paraka..... Double meaning post....

Be ready Guys in my next reply am good to post some TRUTH, with video which is going to shock u ppls.....

@qadirahmed noone here disrespects any religion especially i respect all the religions.And i am not big enough to criticise any religion,so if some people think bad about your religion let them think.Every religion has its weak points.

@qadirahmed: Sorry...my mistake...I thought that inspite of your evangelical zeal, you would be intelligent enough to realise the difference between what the actual Quran says we should do and what cock ups like yourself are practicing in real life. Don't believe me? Have a look around Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan...or hell why not India only??

If you don't get my point...you are just as bad as a stereotypical fanatic is made out to be.

The abrahmic faiths are very intolerant when comes to give respect to other faiths , whether its judaism ,christanity or Islam .

Ever heard riots between Jainism ,Buddhism ,Sikhism's and Zoroastrianisms with hinduism ,

The abrahmic faith consider that God is their personal property ,

The bloody crusades between Moslems and christians , both wanted heaven by destroying themselves but always found themselves in hell

A

My oh my, this thread is goin haywire. a piece of advice, "Everyone read his own Scriptures". To each his own.
For the Quran rightly says, in Surah Kaafirun. surely, in it is a lesson for those who understand.

"I worship not that which you worship,

Nor will you worship that which I worship.

To you, be your religion; and to me, my religion."

discuss sumthin more productive n dat which would help the cause, nt worsen it n render the thread useless.

qadirahmed said:
If i tell what the hindusim teaching in schools then....... here it goes
you ppls worship to each and every thing sorry its none of my matter… u ppls worship to cow too… so this is what u teach in schools….. if a muslim slaughter 10 cows in a year (our god) so if we kill 2 muslims in a year then how many cows would get their life back….? So prevent 20 cows what we have to do…….?
This is the things u ppls teach in schools

can u explain me why that verses have said to......? without knowledge of it dont talk any thing..... as per she said in video..... if u take the verses out of context u loose the meaning of it.... even there is lot of war rules in our religion better u gone and read it first.....
sorry dont request me to explain it here...

first of all Mind ur language...... me too know to speak ur language better than u..... ( you coward)..... we are being shut untill any one take a finger on us..... u dont know what america planing is......? india is going to sale very soon in hands of america By N.deal..... come on now tell me from where the terrorists are getting weapons from.........? have u ever thnk about it....? it sold by america..... Does America found the n. Bomb in iraq......? the first Terrorist is America..... sorry ur not going to understand this coz its out of ur range

its a compulsary rule for muslims not to do business on the time of friday prayer........ if they are forced to non muslim... then u must talk them instead of making it as a big issue....

Dont worry this will not happen in ur's nor in my life time coz... jews, and chirst wont let it to be come calm.... if it become calm..... then who would buy their weapons.......? see india has joined in N.deal too....
so stop worrying about kashmir and start thinking some thing else

What do u know about kashmir......? i know better than u.. what is happening there

what do u mean by indian..........? like fool....? if the indian cricket team would win the cup to appreciate and if loose then to throw stone at their house....? like this or to worship each and every stone's and under water bridge......?

How could u see.......? there is a screen in ur eyes.... Now tell me who are they who killed black ppls........ wont they are terrorists....? who are the srilankan ltt......? freedom fighters.....? (i have a big list to mention) if Just a person who name will be like a muslim if he do slap to any human media would say him like a Terrorist....

Here I wish to tell u one story… in America an American citizen saved a woman from dog bite next day news paper says our nation super hero saved a woman from dog bite

If that person would be a Indian, news paper would say, a foreigner saved a woman from dog bite

If that would be a muslim, then new paper would say, a muslim terrorist had attacked a dog.. this is what is happening wit ours

You better go and say this information to America they would reward u....

what is meant by acc....?

if he/she would not follow any of the verse of BOOK then he/she would not be a muslim

see by our sight u would find the peace.... and intelligence tooo

Best of luck

I pity this guy, I have never ever learned anything like this in my schools,I think he comes from some ill served madrasa (few) where only hatefull things about other religions are taught. Yes we worship everything b'cos we belive everything is gods gift and every living being has every right to live its own life to its fullest. We do not eat cow b'cos that's our way of thanking it for the milk it gives us. when our feet accidentally touches other animal or people we ask for forgivness which actually is for forgivness for the god inside that soul, so apply your mind before critisizing others beliefs.

India did not get sold to U.S through nuclear deal. so that subject can be closed, Yes the biggest terrorist is America & the worst are religious fundamentalists caste no bar.

Kashmir ???? yes i know that thousands of kashmiri pundits were killed in front of their parents and children, their women folks gang raped brutally before being murdered. This was possible by the terrorists as kashmiri muslims (fundamentalist) had supported the terrorists. Now the original people i.,e, kashmiri pandits are living like orphans out of their states/homes.
I don't think your heart is weeping for these people.

Indians are not the only ones who threw stones at indian cricket teams home when we lost the match, pakistan bangladesh teams had to face music from their homecrowds when they lost matches.
What is wrong in believing a story of underwater bridge and worshipping it ?
muslims have been tredging around mecca where a stone is placed inside a building. they throw stones at imaginary satan. Though koran says that worshipping of any structure or imagining a structure as god is wrong, muslims build mosques & tombs over dead people (Ajmer dargah for ex.) and call them holy, is this not against islam and its ideology.

Muslims are targetted and labelled as terrorist and not other religions, this is mainly due to the fact that though there are terrorists in hindu religion like LTTE, naxals etc, they do not defend their acts of terrorism in the name of god or holy books.

Last but not least. during the time of independence both side people got killed while partition. At that time the Hindu population in pakistan was roughly around 15% and in India the Muslim population roughly around 1.5%
The recent census in both the countries put the population in their respective countries as 0.8-0.9% of Hindus in pakistan and 16-17% of muslims in India. tell me now as to which country/religion is more tolerant towards others, or is their anyway that i can hear you raising voice agianst minority bashing in pakistan, can you name a few Hindu ministers or a military generals in pakistan. Have you read the novel Lajja by the bangladeshi story writer (do not remember her name), if not read it once and think about what kind of life hindus have gone through in those countries. Can you name a single muslim country where there is a seperate law for minority comunity, a president from minority community etc,
Quadir be proud that you are born in India, if only you were born in pakistan by this time you would be kidnapped for training in terrrorism & then dead labelled a terrorist.

As for the dog bite story of yours go, have you saved a woman being chased by a dog anywhere, i don't think so, i think you waited to make sure if she cried Jesus, Hey ram or Hai allah.

Islamists are against sufi islam(a milder form of islam) ie Darga's,saint(Avlia) etc.fundemantists consider sufists also kaafir.

I heard Hitler's Book(mein kamph?) is followed by nazis.the same goes to this.I think teachings of madarssas shud be stopped and instead convert them to English medium school giving this kids proper education and treat others as humans.the most hate generating thing is there way to isolate themself from any culture,be it india or any non-muslim majority country.the parda and burkha culture means women are subdued into their homes.women can be beaten.NGC showed an afghan shop owner beating a women in public with belt.(but this act will help western separatist feminists to have some vision what their males are allowing for equality)

regarding gang rape of Kashmiri pundits women

,this is taught in that book which i cannot say here.it explains that after a war,killing kaafirs or converting or slavery them,there women being war booti can be enjoyed by these human animals.

Unlike a Hindu or a Christian,Islam denies ex-muslims.death is the official penalty as per their law.
I believe in the coming 1-2 decades people will face the reality of Islamism.it is another much more cruel form of nazism.west slowly understanding the menace.many european,us and australian countries are checking middle-east like people including Indians in suspicion of terror.I mean,they are taught such aggressively that they cannot come out of it.afterall,these terrorists are taught about world domination and if murdered virgins are waiting there Up

pray that pakistan's nuclear weapons does not end up in this morons hand or Iran.3rd world war is what which waits.
I have seen in this forum itself that the teaching is so brainwashing that few Muslims can thing about tolerance and are open to talk about their book.they bashes the reality rather than tolerant.this is my experiance esp that 007 user.

Saudi Arabian funding

Starting in the mid-1970s the Islamic resurgence was funded by an abundance of money from Saudi Arabian oil exports.[32] The $10s of billions of dollars "petro-Islam" largess from the new higher price of oil funded an estimated "90% of the expenses of the entire faith,"[33] throughout the Muslim world, to young and old, from children's maddrassas to high level scholarship.[34] "Books, scholarships, fellowships, mosques" (for example, "more than 1500 mosques were built from Saudi public funds over the last 50 years") were paid for. [35] It rewarded journalists and academics who followed it; built satellite campuses around Egypt for Al Azhar, the oldest and very influential Islamic university.[36]
The interpretation of Islam promoted by this funding was the strict, conservative Saudi-based Wahhabism or Salafism that taught that Muslims should reject absolutely any non-Muslim ideas and practices, including political ones. In its harshest form it preached that Muslims should not only "always oppose" infidels "in every way," but "hate them for their religion ... for Allah's sake," that democracy "is responsible for all the horrible wars of the 20th century," that Shia and other non-Wahhabi Muslims were infidels, etc.[37] While this effort has by no means converted all, or even most, Muslims to the Wahhabist interpretation, it has done much to overwhelm more moderate local interpretations and set the Saudi-interpretation of Islam as the "gold standard" of religion in Muslims' minds. [38]

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism#Saudi_Arabian_funding

Muslims make continual demands in order to impose their own values, and concessions inspire fresh demands. Most if not all Muslims have this demanding attitude, since such demands are a part of their religion.

These demands are also intended to place non-Muslims (Jews and Christians) in the status of dhimmi, and most Muslims find that the only appropriate status for them.

These demands should be resisted, but European governments, media and elites consistently fail to do so. They even pre-emptively make concessions to Muslims, including self-censorship. Their attitude is that of dhimmitude - the servile attitude of the weak dhimmi in a Muslim-dominated society. Dhimmitude is effectively an act of treason against western civilisation.

Muslim immigration to Europe is a strategy, intended to gain control of Europe, by replacing its non-Muslim population with Muslims - it is not primarily economic in character.

The growth of the Muslim population in Europe by natural increase (high birth rates) is also part of this strategy - "outbreeding the enemy." There are already many more Muslims in Europe than official statistics admit -- with some countries like France and Belgium refusing to even count their minorities -- and within several generations (at least by 2100) they will form a majority. European governments have actively facilitated this strategy by allowing continuous immigration from Muslim countries, which is also tantamount to treason.

Even before they are a majority, Muslims will dominate European politics because of their numbers and the complaisant dhimmitude of politicians and elites, who consistently fail to offer any resistance to them.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism

Q

As for the dog bite story of yours go, have you saved a woman being chased by a dog anywhere, i don't think so, i think you waited to make sure if she cried Jesus, Hey ram or Hai allah.

am sorry dude am not like a that one which u mentioned above i wish to reply to all ur question...... if i do u ppls will took that all in wrong way....

soon ill reply to all... sply to that guy 1993

muslims seem to be following the strategy of overbreeding and then become majority from minority and then take control of the nation....

there is shortage of tolerance in Islam when compared to other faiths ..though Christianity and Islam are two faces of a single count ..

Christianity has reformed but Islam is still in it 700 AD ,

^main reason is eu&us are majority Atheists :-|

@nix: Hey mate...I'd just like to point out that I'm a Muslim, same as qadirahmed, but we're not all like that. So in future, if you could tone down the communalism a bit, that'd be great.

I hope more are rational in the religion.but extremists have hacked the religion long back.the purdha/burkha culture was not there in my young days ie 1982-1990ś.but after strong influence from gulf the sharia is secretly enforcing in some parts of south india.

punk said:
I pity this guy, I have never ever learned anything like this in my schools,I think he comes from some ill served madrasa (few) where only hatefull things about other religions are taught. Yes we worship everything b'cos we belive everything is gods gift and every living being has every right to live its own life to its fullest. We do not eat cow b'cos that's our way of thanking it for the milk it gives us. when our feet accidentally touches other animal or people we ask for forgivness which actually is for forgivness for the god inside that soul, so apply your mind before critisizing others beliefs.

India did not get sold to U.S through nuclear deal. so that subject can be closed, Yes the biggest terrorist is America & the worst are religious fundamentalists caste no bar.

Kashmir ???? yes i know that thousands of kashmiri pundits were killed in front of their parents and children, their women folks gang raped brutally before being murdered. This was possible by the terrorists as kashmiri muslims (fundamentalist) had supported the terrorists. Now the original people i.,e, kashmiri pandits are living like orphans out of their states/homes.
I don't think your heart is weeping for these people.

Indians are not the only ones who threw stones at indian cricket teams home when we lost the match, pakistan bangladesh teams had to face music from their homecrowds when they lost matches.
What is wrong in believing a story of underwater bridge and worshipping it ?
muslims have been tredging around mecca where a stone is placed inside a building. they throw stones at imaginary satan. Though koran says that worshipping of any structure or imagining a structure as god is wrong, muslims build mosques & tombs over dead people (Ajmer dargah for ex.) and call them holy, is this not against islam and its ideology.

Muslims are targetted and labelled as terrorist and not other religions, this is mainly due to the fact that though there are terrorists in hindu religion like LTTE, naxals etc, they do not defend their acts of terrorism in the name of god or holy books.

Last but not least. during the time of independence both side people got killed while partition. At that time the Hindu population in pakistan was roughly around 15% and in India the Muslim population roughly around 1.5%
The recent census in both the countries put the population in their respective countries as 0.8-0.9% of Hindus in pakistan and 16-17% of muslims in India. tell me now as to which country/religion is more tolerant towards others, or is their anyway that i can hear you raising voice agianst minority bashing in pakistan, can you name a few Hindu ministers or a military generals in pakistan. Have you read the novel Lajja by the bangladeshi story writer (do not remember her name), if not read it once and think about what kind of life hindus have gone through in those countries. Can you name a single muslim country where there is a seperate law for minority comunity, a president from minority community etc,
Quadir be proud that you are born in India, if only you were born in pakistan by this time you would be kidnapped for training in terrrorism & then dead labelled a terrorist.

As for the dog bite story of yours go, have you saved a woman being chased by a dog anywhere, i don't think so, i think you waited to make sure if she cried Jesus, Hey ram or Hai allah.

Novel is by [SIZE=-1]Taslima Nasrin I guess who tried to raise her voice but was exiled n [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]threatened to kill publicly by an [/SIZE]Indian Muslim MLA[SIZE=-1] ! Silly girl how dare she raise her voice n expose ISLAM etc ? How tolerant! I hope she doesn't convert or else becoming a non-believer she might be killed!
Those who try to expose r exiled n given death threats n those who become liberal r called foolish n coward!

@punk : Nice reply! Discussions n Fights are goin bt Modi. I wonder when the same will happen bt Bokhari of Jama Masjid havin so many criminal cases registered against him!
[/SIZE]

Root cause of all the problems: Bloody politicians. Shoot them.

Second cause: Isolation and Ignorance of many muslims. Ban all madarassas. Let there be only Mosques for prayers. Tell them that worldy education is the need of the hour. Tell them females need to be educated. Educate the females about women rights. Ban polygamy.

What happened in Gujrat was wrong, it shouldn't haf happened. IMO, it was the culmination of the buildup of hatred since years. The guilty should be punished, from both the sides. The first names would obviously be the politicians from both the communities!

@infra_red_dude: I'd add to your rep if I could but for now, we're goin to have to make do with:

"^^ +1 !!!"

I dunno how I missed posting this point but here it is: BAN Bajrang Dal, VHP, SIMI etc. They are as much responsible for everything in our country as the politicians are!

@infra_red_dude , dood totally agree wid u , all extremist parties should be banned .

add NDF of Kerala too.wisest of terrorist groups.they stand us a political party for kerala's problems and makes muslim youth attracted to terrorism.thanks to ISI and paki's!they found a good fortune in south india via malabar

Q

wait for me Guys coming back soon.....

^naa...

We can't do anything , just except discussing and taking out frustration here ..

only who have power can play the game ..we are just spectators

faraaz said:
@nix: Hey mate...I'd just like to point out that I'm a Muslim, same as qadirahmed, but we're not all like that. So in future, if you could tone down the communalism a bit, that'd be great.

i just said the truth, mate.

A highly biased truth which only applies to a VERY small and vocal minority which offends the rest of the Muslims who do NOT belong to the broad, racist stereotype you made. So yeah, stop it.

I dont think everyone of that religion are terrorist!only those who are trained/brain-washed by "the verses", who are those hard-core terrorists dragging "straight" peace loving ones in the community to the violent ways !thats the point.not everyone.infact terrorists of that religion may be minority in india compared to rest of the world like arabia.but most of the Muslims do have a mindset that they shud be different.even tieing Dhothies in "left" direction(Malabar).too much of idiocity whoever teaches it.

reg RSS,shivsena(yes!) they too are terrorists.but these all are formed afaik just to protest/protect the majority religion which is vulnerable as mainly i feel hindus are not hard-core fanatics except may be modi,thogadia etc.the provocation part is always initated by the "other side".yes,cannot justify RSS or BJP in power is a no-no.only congress or communists shud be in power.there are no justifications for killing Muslims.these parties shud understand that taking revenge means still enemity existing!.eye for eye,teeth for teeth are for those tribes uneducated wahabbi's in Saudi arabia and arabian peninsula itself.
In India peaceful co-existing shud be the option,provided those fanatics in Islam stops there "work".teaching violence directly.and those Islamists who want to make the world a Islamic world where Islam is the religion for all and sharia is the law to enforce

stop dreaming of killing kaafirs and bloodshed.atleast i believed education make some changes in hard-corers/but i can feel in this thread itself that instead of taking the points they are showing the violence here also.swashbucklers!

praka123 said:
yes,cannot justify RSS or BJP in power is a no-no.only congress or communists shud be in power.there are no justifications for killing Muslims.

Just wanted to remaind that if congress is in power, its the Sikhs (1984)who bear the brunt and when commies are in power, the poor people(Nandigram).

The problem is that every single party in India has and even now actively supports riots. The may not be focused on any particular religion (as is the case of commies) or on not so commonly attacked religions (Congress vs Sikhs)

qadirahmed said:
wait for me Guys coming back soon.....

Yaaawn, I don't think he will be coming, lost words to speak i presume.

R

Well guys, am from ahmedabad and from maninagar ( which is the area of Narendra Modi )

You never understand the truth unless and untill you face it practically. Here am describing some point to look for.

1. Education level is not so bad in gujarat. Search about gujarat, the people are not fool here.
2. Modi won with majority during this election. Lemme explain.. this means the majority of people of gujarat voted for him, when all the media and opposition ( including his own party leaders) were dying to get votes at any cost. OR you can say the opposition was dying to defeat modi at any.. believe me at anyyyyy cost. And please dont ever think about the bogus voting etc etc, its gujarat, election commision sent a huge notice to modi for a single word of " maut ka saudagar " said by modi.
3. This election was held after all the godhara kaand and tehelka video etc etc.

Think about the mentality of people and please try to imagine the reality of the real picture.

Lemme go lil bit deep. Hopy you guys remember why this godhara kaand happened. Hopy you guys remember that burning train.

Who started the things ?

Maine to ye bhi suna hai ki kuch reports me aisa kaha gaya hai ki train me aag andar se lagayi gayi thi. Ye report rakhne wale sale insaan nai dalaal hain.

I heard a lot of challenges given by modi (to congress) during election campaign. Here is the one i noticed, He asked more then 11 times why congress not giving 'Faasi" to afzal guru. No one answered him. Everyone knows the reality, but no one dare to face.

The disscussion has no end. Am against of any killing of human beings by any religion or any politician.

It hurts me a lot when i read a post by qadir,

@qadir

They are not stones qadir, shame on you. Grow up man, First try to be a good human.

Ghanto baithe ke puri post padhta raha, ek bhi aisa banda nai dikha jisne muslims ke god ko ek word bhi bola ho. Mere dost ye tumahara hi desh hai. Muslims bhi un schools me padhne jaate hain jahan ka tum jikr kar rahe ho. Apne aap ke andar jhaank kar dekho. Kam se kam kisi ke bhagwan ki izzat karna seekho. Its not only a stone, its a faith of millions, what we call in hindi " Sraddhaa" & Its not only an under water bridge. Its Ram-setu dear friend. Try to search about NASA report about ram setu. I wonder if you ever heard about ramayan. Its a holy book same as yours kuraan.
Agar main tumhaari language me tumhe jawaab dun to mujhe kehne me sharam aayegi aur tumhe sunne me.
You used a word " cowards ", dont you feel shame ? Even you can imagine the word which i cay say against this one. ( related to some animal, and which u dont like i suppose )

But am not you.

I fully agree with faraz, punk, praka, 1933, mediator and all the others..