I hate Macs!! · DIGIT-ARC

Well, actually these aren't my words (though they almost convey my own feelings

). This is the title of an article that appeared on the Guardian's website and later submitted on Digg and thats how I came to know about it. As of now it has received 1436 diggs!! Anyway, here are some extracts of the article.

I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

PCs are the ramshackle computers of the people. You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion. Sometimes you have to slap it to make it work properly, just like the Tardis (Doctor Who, incidentally, would definitely use a PC). PCs have charm; Macs ooze pretension. When I sit down to use a Mac, the first thing I think is, "I hate Macs", and then I think, "Why has this rubbish aspirational ornament only got one mouse button?" Losing that second mouse button feels like losing a limb.

.....Cue 10 years of nasal bleating from Mac-likers who profess to like Macs not because they are fashionable, but because "they are just better". Mac owners often sneer that kind of defence back at you when you mock their silly, posturing contraptions,.....

....the campaign's biggest flaw is that it perpetuates the notion that consumers somehow "define themselves" with the technology they choose. If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality.....

*www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html

Let the war begin. :))

^ et tu !

I hereby proclaim this thread Flamebait! For this thread only, I have a new rule:

For every logical argument you put forth for your camp (PC/Mac), you get to take one dig at the opposing camp. But:

1. No profanity
2. No insulting family members/upbringing/other insults that count as "below the belt"

Draw yer swords!

(the mods will probably hate me for this.....)

Not again!

On a funnier note, check this:

*video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794

That article is obviously crap. I think even the author did it all in good humour, maybe it is a satire on similar articles. Because it just sounds too ridiculous to be anything close to the truth.

Macs ship with a two-button mouse as a standard nowadays, BTW.

What caught my interest, however, was not the article itself but blackpearl's comment - "though they almost convey my own feelings

"
Did you do that to incite a flame war or did you actually mean it? Because if it is the latter, i.e. you find that article sensible and feel that it reflects your own thoughts, you've already lost some of the pretty considerable amount of respect I had for your intelligence!
__________

mediator said:
Not again!

Exactly.

Now if the admin is involved.....Lets make this "fight" a flop

:
mods close the thread

If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality.

The only quote I liked in the whole topic, the rest sounded like usual PC vs Mac rant.

aryayush said:
What caught my interest, however, was not the article itself but blackpearl's comment - "though they almost convey my own feelings "
Did you do that to incite a flame war or did you actually mean it? Because if it is the latter, i.e. you find that article sensible and feel that it reflects your own thoughts, you've already lost some of the pretty considerable amount of respect I had for your intelligence!

There is a reason why I used the word "almost" in my statement. That's because in reality I don't hate the Mac, I hate its fanboys. For them Mac is just a fashion statement, they like to flaunt it because they are under this false impression that owning a Mac is somewhat superior. They are just one of those guys who like to flash their expensive mobile phones and other accessories. To quote your own words, remember you once said to someone who just bought a Mac -"welcome to the civilized world". So Mac users are civilized? I wonder how many hours Mac users spend each day just admiring their Mac and congratulating themselves that they own it.

aryayush said:
That article is obviously crap. I think even the author did it all in good humour, maybe it is a satire on similar articles. Because it just sounds too ridiculous to be anything close to the truth.

Macs ship with a two-button mouse as a standard nowadays, BTW.

Thats how every Mac users commented on Digg because the article hits right on the nail, right on their inflated ego. And aryayush, you don't have to be one of them. Just use your Mac, don't start singing in its praise.

Oh man!

The endless war BEGINS! NEVER SAY DIE ANYBODY!

On a funnier note, read these

*uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Windows

*uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Mac

*uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Linux

Spend some time on that website reading other articles. All are hilarious. :))

I personally don't hate Apple. Infact I use one of their Product and am pretty happy with it. I am against the song which Mac owners play seemlessly that "it's the best", showing limitless fanboyism. Fanboyism is certainly not acceptable at any stage. May it be Browsers, AntiVirus, or the OS. Well, if it's justified, it is not much a big deal. Mac OS crashes more often than Windows. They are unstable and need reboots most often than Windows. This is not my point of view, but professionals know it. Inspite of such problems, if Mac owners still argue that "Mac is the more stable than Windows", then it's absolutely lame statement.

what the, i m not even here & this thread has become a war

kiran_tech_mania said:
Mac OS crashes more often than Windows. They are unstable and need reboots most often than Windows. This is not my point of view, but professionals know it.

Well dats something new I know now!

Yep! Here is what a Software Developer in Yahoo who has never been known as a booster for Window has to say............

Why one Mac owner might go back to Windows?

To many Macintosh owners, it is anathema even to suggest that Apple computers are anything but vastly superior to Windows PCs. But that is exactly what one of them is saying--and he's so disenchanted that he might switch back to a Microsoft machine.

Normally, such blasphemous talk might be easily dismissed for its inanity, insanity or both. But the comments have generated particular controversy because Russell Beattie, an experienced software developer who works for Yahoo, has never been known as a booster for Windows. In a list of 33 complaints, he begins with this entry: "Anyone who says that Macs are more stable than Windows are smoking dope. I have two brand new Macs and they regularly go wacky and need reboots."

Beattie has received so much response that some bloggers are running excerpts of the many retorts.

More Info: Here

mediator said:
Well dats something new I know now!

Just because he said it?

@Kiran_tech_mania, do you have any proof that Mac OS X crashes more often than Windows? That is such a kiddish comment. I've been using it for more than six months now and have yet to experience a single crash. And I've read all sorts of problems that Mac users experience on various Apple centric forums, but one thing is common in most of them - the operating system does not crash.
There have been so few reports of Mac OS X crashing and almost every PC users who switches to a Mac stays with it.
Yes, it is possible that someone who buys a Mac gets a lemon of a product which crashes frequently. It is obviously a problem with the system and Apple will fix it for him or replace the machine. But a healthy Mac never crashes, never ever. And that is not going to change whether you believe it or not - and even if some high profile reporter like Dvorak writes about how unstable Macs are.

I feel like vomitting after reading rubbish comments again and again. :ewwwww:

M

gx_saurav said:
what the, i m not even here & this thread has become a war

It ain't even a gang war yet. I don't even see guns drawn out here let alone bombs and fighter jets. Maybe you could start it, that too with permission from UNO(FatBeing).

The second one from "the camp" has not even joined yet. Let him come...may be then it will become funny

aryayush said:
Just because he said it?

Nope, because he put the following line in it

This is not my point of view, but professionals know it.

But still I haven't formed any image of Mac in my mind coz I have never used it. What u told me about Mac is still in my mind but what he told has been added to that database. But dont worry, I'm not one of those people who have never used a different OS or lack experience with it and then spread lies and false notions about it. I'm still an observer in every Mac's related discussion.

mehul said:
It ain't even a gang war yet. I don't even see guns drawn out here let alone bombs and fighter jets. Maybe you could start it, that too with permission from UNO(FatBeing).

Nah, i made my policy.....was banned already for no reason. No use wasting time by arguing with macboys

arya said:
That is such a kiddish comment. I've been using it for more than six months now and have yet to experience a single crash. And I've read all sorts of problems that Mac users experience on various Apple centric forums, but one thing is common in most of them - the operating system does not crash.

There have been so few reports of Mac OS X crashing and almost every PC users who switches to a Mac stays with it.
Yes, it is possible that someone who buys a Mac gets a lemon of a product which crashes frequently

Lolz....first decide what u want to say, you always get pawned & still you come back with same old reasons. Macs do crash, they hang for no reason, & if the file is in use, it gets deleted too.....wake up, this does happens

I feel like vomitting after reading rubbish comments again and again. :ewwwww:

Right said, agan & again

blackpearl said:
There is a reason why I used the word "almost" in my statement. That's because in reality I don't hate the Mac, I hate its fanboys. For them Mac is just a fashion statement, they like to flaunt it because they are under this false impression that owning a Mac is somewhat superior. They are just one of those guys who like to flash their expensive mobile phones and other accessories. To quote your own words, remember you once said to someone who just bought a Mac -"welcome to the civilized world". So Mac users are civilized? I wonder how many hours Mac users spend each day just admiring their Mac and congratulating themselves that they own it.

Thats how every Mac users commented on Digg because the article hits right on the nail, right on their inflated ego. And aryayush, you don't have to be one of them. Just use your Mac, don't start singing in its praise.

If tomorrow your uncle were to bring you a Rolex watch from USA, you would show it off to all of your friends. You'd feel a certain sense of pride in owning it. You'll feel special. People buy BMWs not only because they are better cars, but also because they signify status. They are not ordinary cars.
Macs occupy a similar place in computing. Therefore, it is obvious that people who own Macs have that sense of pride too. Yes, Mac zealots tend to go overboard. These are people who cannot tolerate anything spoken against Macs, Apple or Steve Jobs. I am not justifying their behaviour. But Apple's products are a sort of a staus symbol and you know it. People are awed when they see a Mac somewhere.
But people's devotion to Macs is justified to a large extent because they ARE such fabulous machines. You guys keep saying that people who use Windows PCs don't behave in the way Mac owners do. Yes, that is true to a large extent (with some exceptions) and that is bacause Mac owners love their computers while PC owners do not. Because Macs are easy to maintain. You spend more time doing useful work on a Mac than on maintaining it. People love Macs because they are fast and stable. The fact that these are beautiful machines also contributes to the fan following in a large way.
I am not saying that everyone whould own a Mac. If you like Windows, just stick with it. But claiming that Macs have this and that shortcoming out of pure jealousy is as bad as being a Mac fanboy, if not worse. A good example is Kiran_tech_mania's claim that Macs crash more than Windows. Ha! Ha! And pigs fly.

Yes, I love Apple and its products a lot but I am NOT the fanboy that some people make me out to be. I hated their comment blaming Windows for the iPod virus, I think it is a very good point against Macs that they cannot be upgraded. I also think the iPods are not as good as their sales indicate. I think Microsoft's Zune is a very serious competitor. There are other areas where Macs lack too, but there aren't too many.
But yes, in the end I do believe with utter conviction that whatever the drawbacks, Macs are certainly hugely better than Windows PCs. And I also believe that if you are buying a notebook in the range of sixty thousand and above, there is no reason not to buy an Apple product.

blackpearl said:
And aryayush, you don't have to be one of them. Just use your Mac, don't start singing in its praise.

If people feel it appropriate to start threads with titles like "I hate Macs!!", I feel that I am fairly within my rights to defend the platform which I love.
__________

tarey_g said:
I feel like vomitting after reading rubbish comments again and again. :ewwwww:

If you feel like vomiting ever time you see a dog, why not stop peeping inside kennels?
__________

blackpearl said:
On a funnier note, read these

*uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Windows

*uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Mac

*uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Linux

Spend some time on that website reading other articles. All are hilarious.

Thanks for the links! :lol:

Aryayush, Man, are you a lawyer??

I have spent the last 10 minutes reading your previous post. I feel like Apple should hire you as their defence lawyer. I am sure you can save the company when a similar situation arises with them.

gx_saurav said:
Lolz....first decide what u want to say, you always get pawned & still you come back with same old reasons. Macs do crash, they hang for no reason, & if the file is in use, it gets deleted too.....wake up, this does happens

This from a person who has never used Mac OS X and has exactly zero amount of information about Macintoshes. Yeah, I can see why we should take your word on this one!

"if the file is in use, it gets deleted too" - Are you sure that by in use you do not mean that you right-clicked on it and clicked on "Move to Trash"? Because that is not a bug, that is standard behaviour for getting rid of unwanted files. Now, if you expected that it wouldn't be deleted even after you tried to - well, I am sorry, you need to use a Windows machine for achieving that. Macs have this severe problem, they do what you ask them to. They don't have any opinions of their own. Crap!

aryayush said:
But people's devotion to Macs is justified to a large extent because they ARE such fabulous machines.

Aren't you the one who believed that he had an Intel supplied hard drive?

I could be confusing you for someone else though...

Yeah, I am. I did not believe I had an Intel supplied hard drive, I thought I had an Intel hard drive. Of course, I was very confused because I know Intel does not manufacture hard drives.

Look wat dis guy s saying......... *www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16873608/
Another Mac user switches to Vista-------------------Say something critical about Microsoft and Windows and no one bats an eyelash. But write anything even faintly judgmental about the Macintosh and in comes a flood of hate mail from Mac users. The worst part is the tone of most, which generally tend toward religious zealotry. So before I begin, let me begin by saying any e-mails of that type that are sent in response to this story will be deleted, with no reply.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So are all Mac users uppity and sensitiv about their Mac. Why Sir ? When then will MacBoys becom MacMen ???????????????????????????????

Mac fanboys are no reason to dislike the Mac platform.

In fact, no one actually does dislike it. Those who claim they do are hypocrites.

Well if Mac is such a good operating system without any flaws then why isn't the whole world migrating towards it???

Windows XP is definetly stable than OS X. You clearly showed the fanboyism here arguing to everyone out here. You need a proof? You say that you went through many forums. Well, if you really did so, you would have never quoted it. Don't throw blind shots here. Use google and find it out yourself what people say about WindowsXP, Windows 9X, OS9...etc. And if you are lazy to do that, tell me I will do that for you! And before deciding pigs fly, I suggest you to fly out of your dream Mac world and sneak into 'real' world.

aryayush said:
I did not believe I had an Intel supplied hard drive, I thought I had an Intel hard drive.

Are you trying to tell me that you don't believe in your own thoughts?

aryayush said:
If you feel like vomiting ever time you see a dog, why not stop peeping inside kennels?

Not every dog is ugly and not every comment is wise. I don't expect the doghouse covered in same crap before i peep in. Just love to leave my two words which would help in keeping it clean. But i guess some ppl love crappy doghouses.

After all that this forum has gone through, mac vs windows posts being locked n all, I don't think it was advisable to put this up...

M

Rather this is good, so that everyone can vent out their fanboyisms and stuff here and leave rest of the forum clean.
But, a side effect would be more of such posts coming up in other threads too.

aryayush said:
Yes, I love Apple and its products a lot but I am NOT the fanboy that some people make me out to be.

Well aryayush I hate to say this and no offence meant but sometimes you make me think like you are, one comment against Mac gets you all worked up...

Don't take ti too hard as I know you aren't a fanboy.

aryayush said:
Mac fanboys are no reason to dislike the Mac platform.

In fact, no one actually does dislike it. Those who claim they do are hypocrites.

Mac fanboys aren't a reason to dislike Mac but they can make you pissed. Like when your girlfriend seems more impressed by a Macbook than yourself. j/k

Second, someone could actually dislike Mac without being hippocrite, I can give tons of reasons, like high market prices of Apple shares for instance.

Doesn't make Mac worse, it just doesn't catch their fancy.

tech_your_future said:
Rather this is good, so that everyone can vent out their fanboyisms and stuff here and leave rest of the forum clean.

Good idea. Lesser of the two evils is always a good choice. I personally can't stand fanboys who can't objectively understand th pluses and minuses of an OS or software, instead consider users having a different choice as noobs and idiots.

That man hates Macs for the reason he gave, perhaps these reasons mean a lot to him. It does not necessarily make Macs better of worse.

arya said:
Because Macs are easy to maintain. You spend more time doing useful work on a Mac than on maintaining it.

Yup, we Windows users have been doing usefull work from ages too.....long before MacOS X

Lucky_star said:
Aryayush, Man, are you a lawyer??
I have spent the last 10 minutes reading your previous post. I feel like Apple should hire you as their defence lawyer. I am sure you can save the company when a similar situation arises with them.

Thats the case with every macboy

arya said:
This from a person who has never used Mac OS X and has exactly zero amount of information about Macintoshes. Yeah, I can see why we should take your word on this one!

I used mac OS 9/ OS X 10.1 & 10.2 long before u even started working on computers. Your very good friend, the 2nd one in this camp used to consult me before buying his Mac Mini, for the hardware....go ask him. Macboys will be boys....other grow up for doing better things

arya said:
"if the file is in use, it gets deleted too"

This i can argue u with, I was working on myself on Maya 5 on MacOS X 10.2 few years ago on a powerbook, it crashed due to some OpenGL error & after rebooting, the file which was in use got deleted

eddie said:
Aren't you the one who believed that he had an Intel supplied hard drive? I could be confusing you for someone else though...

Lolz..nail on the correct point

, now what to say about his knowledge

arya said:
Mac fanboys are no reason to dislike the Mac platform.

In fact, no one actually does dislike it. Those who claim they do are hypocrites.

arya said:
Well aryayush I hate to say this and no offence meant but sometimes you make me think like you are, one comment against Mac gets you all worked up... Don't take ti too hard as I know you aren't a fanboy.

speaks for itself

arya said:
Mac fanboys aren't a reason to dislike Mac but they can make you pissed. Like when your girlfriend seems more impressed by a Macbook than yourself. j/k

hota hai bhai,

gx_saurav said:
Your very good friend, the 2nd one in this camp used to consult me before buying his Mac Mini

Lol. Talk about spreading misinformation.

kiran_tech_mania said:
Use google and find it out yourself what people say about WindowsXP, Windows 9X, OS9...etc. And if you are lazy to do that, tell me I will do that for you! And before deciding pigs fly, I suggest you to fly out of your dream Mac world and sneak into 'real' world.

This shows how grossly misinformed you are. OS 9 was Apple's OS! LOL! However, I understand that you are prejudiced against the platform. So, I wouldn't reply to any of your claims. A quick search of your posts reveals everything.

It's fine if you don't know about something- Even I know practically nothing about graphics cards, games etc. However, trying to comment on something that one does not know about, or about something that one has not experienced personally, is not considered prudent. However, I do realize that I am talking about conscience on a forum that attracts people from all strata of society.

Anyways, I'd advise people to use whatever they like. Some of the comments are too outrageous to even warrant a reply. OS X is almost fully based on UNIX/BSD. Most of the underlying technologies are open source and free. CUPS and Samba are just two of the many examples. Now, if some one says CUPS and Samba are not good, then such a person needs a mental checkup.

Not every one likes Minissha Lamba, but that doesn't mean she is not the most beautiful actress in the Hindi film industry.

Advantages of Macs:

- Good operating system(Macs can run Windows XP/Vista, Linux, Solaris, too)
- Nice looks
- Very good build quality
- Very good service, even in India(Speaking from personal experience)

Advantage of custom-built PCs:

- Configurable(You can change the graphics card in such PCs, but it's not possible on Macs)
- A tad cheaper

mail2and said:
Lol. Talk about spreading misinformation.

Lolz....andy, would u like me to post screenshot of chatlogs of my gxsauarv ID from yahoo

gx_saurav said:
Lolz....andy, would u like me to post screenshot of chatlogs of my gxsauarv ID from yahoo

Why not? Let me see when I 'consulted' you. Discussed yes, but not 'consulted'.

Heck, I only 'consulted' some one twice in my life. Both these persons are quite well known in professional circles, both in India and abroad.

Self confidence- yes, Vanity- no.

lets be honest ... the mac fanboys only hate PC coz it runs Windows .... i dont know why theyare so insecure abt windows ....
__________

mail2and said:
- Good operating system(Macs can run Windows XP/Vista, Linux, Solaris, too)

as long as mac did not support windows they said we dont want windows it sux .... now wen the support is added its become an advantage

mAV3 said:
lets be honest ... the mac fanboys only hate PC coz it runs Windows .... i dont know why theyare so insecure abt windows ....

You had posted something about 'They have finally accepted defeat'.

Let me tell you a story. Once there was a man, who believed in White supremacy. This man killed millions and millions of men, women and children. He kept them in concentration camps. He tortured them. He didn't give food to them for days.

The rest of the world stayed quiet. This man thought he had won the world, and that the world was there for his taking. When reality dawned upon him, he killed himself. He didn't have the courage to face reality, he didn't have the courage to stand up. Why, one may ask? Because this man had no conscience.

The guy was called Adolf Hitler.

Similarly, is it worth talking logic on an internet forum with people(mostly frustrated kids), who often take advantage of being 'anonymous'? I let them believe they've won, they've created history, they've changed the fortunes of millions.

In the real world, however, such people have no standing.

One can have his own opinion, but one can't have his own facts.

I would personally appreciate the person who points out that I've posted anything other than facts in my posts.

mAV3 said:
lets be honest ... the mac fanboys only hate PC coz it runs Windows .... i dont know why theyare so insecure abt windows ....
__________
as long as mac did not support windows they said we dont want windows it sux .... now wen the support is added its become an advantage

What the hell!! I was about to quote about the "out of ammo" thing, but when I clicked the "quote" button I found the post gone. LOL!! Why did you edit that mAV3?

mail2and said:
Not every one likes Minissha Lamba, but that doesn't mean she is not the most beautiful actress in the Hindi film industry.

Now that I agree!! She is beautiful.

Back to the topic: Mac might be good, Mac might be bad. What I don't like is zealotry. And dislike for a Macboy does make you dislike a mac.

One thing for sure, Apple & Macboys always try to downplay Windows & Microsoft, yet they know they cannot survive without them

What office system is the most popular one on Mac = Microsoft office for Mac

Most popular Messaging client = MSN Messenger

It was arrogance of apple when they challenged he community to run Windows XP on Mactel, if u can, when Apple was shown the truth that Windows is so modular that it can also run anywhere, they had to support it via bootcamp, they know it's a way to attract customers.

The problem is not Mac hardware or the OS, it's there macboys attitude, arrogance & marketing methods, which makes anyone dislike them

ya thr was adolf hitler then and today .... we hav steve jobs thinking the same way ... the world is his for taking he has won the world with making some ipod, iphone and a wierd machine called the mac .... and as u said i just hope the reality doesnt make him do wat hitler did
__________

blackpearl said:
What the hell!! I was about to quote about the "out of ammo" thing, but when I clicked the "quote" button I found the post gone. LOL!! Why did you edit that mAV3?

tht was coz i did not see this thread in its second page .... whr our good fren who is lives in a hallucination has arrived ... besides ya its true tht every 1 is out of ammo no real fights come up in the so called permitted thread

hey fatbeing .... we are humans wen allowed we wont wen forbidden we will :wink:

mail2and said:
Similarly, is it worth talking logic on an internet forum with people(mostly frustrated kids), who often take advantage of being 'anonymous'? I let them believe they've won, they've created history, they've changed the fortunes of millions.

In the real world, however, such people have no standing.

Well said buddy! Sitting behind the safety of a computer screen and flaming and insulting someone who has different experience/opinions doesn't make one a winner.

gx_saurav said:
The problem is not Mac hardware or the OS, it's there macboys attitude, arrogance & marketing methods, which makes anyone dislike them

You hit the nail on the head on this one.

mail2and said:
This shows how grossly misinformed you are. OS 9 was Apple's OS! LOL! However, I understand that you are prejudiced against the platform. So, I wouldn't reply to any of your claims. A quick search of your posts reveals everything. It's fine if you don't know about something- Even I know practically nothing about graphics cards, games etc. However, trying to comment on something that one does not know about, or about something that one has not experienced personally, is not considered prudent. However, I do realize that I am talking about conscience on a forum that attracts people from all strata of society.

Wht? OS 9 is not Apple's? :-D

Now there you go! How much informed you are? And never bother to bring in Microwave OS9 here! When I mentioned OS 9, it is evident that it is Mac OS 9 considering the matter in context. Of course, unless you specificaly want to deviate and name someone that he doesn't have knowledge or you don't know yourself!

And pl. stop reading some ones cycology. :-D

Andy, I am not prejudiced against Mac, but fed up of listening the same song from you guys.

kiran...man read my siggy....you will understand the truth

P.S. - No use in wasting time by arguing with Macboys. They are sitting ducks....they really need to see what the real world is & get a life.

Evryone knows how much is the knowledge of Macboys, they hardly know anything about computer, technology, networking, graphics or anything. They just believe what Apple tought them, they follow them blindly, all they know about is their Mac. Typical example is given below

andy said:
This shows how grossly misinformed you are. OS 9 was Apple's OS! LOL!

We Windows & Other OS users, we like to disect what we got

, now don't tell me you can screw MacOS X the same way u can do in Linux or Windows. I mean, in Windows & Linux, we can littrally change anything by either applications or resource hacking (quite geeky). You cannot do so in Mac

gx_saurav said:
The problem is not Mac hardware or the OS, it's there macboys attitude, arrogance & marketing methods, which makes anyone dislike them

And thats what the article is exactly about.

^^^^ indeed it is, but whose gonna tell this to macboys, they can't stop acting elite

gx_saurav said:
We Windows & Other OS users, we like to disect what we got , now don't tell me you can screw MacOS X the same way u can do in Linux or Windows. I mean, in Windows & Linux, we can littrally change anything by either applications or resource hacking (quite geeky). You cannot do so in Mac

Again shows how misinformed you are. Mac OS X and Linux are quite similar to each other. What you can do in Linux, you can do is OS X, with the Terminal. Ask GNUrag about it. Oh, you will not, as old timers will know how you actually debated with GNU about it, and how he actually blew away all your fantasies.

In fact, I run GNUCash using XII

You can also run GNOME, KDE on OS X.

Yes, very intelligent, indeed. I am impressed with the intelligence of the forum members here. However, I have stopped resorting to name calling.

As for resource hacking, I'd let you off with it, as you probably haven't use OS X enough to know about it. Go search on Google.

__________

Kiran_tech_mania said:
And pl. stop reading some ones cycology. Andy, I am not prejudiced against Mac, but fed up of listening the same song from you guys.

Your previous posts speak for yourself. It needs no explanation.

__________

Aberforth said:
Well said buddy! Sitting behind the safety of a computer screen and flaming and insulting someone who has different experience/opinions doesn't make one a winner.

Apparently, quite a lot of people on this forum do not understand this.

It reminds me of a guy who abused Deep on his blog. Somehow, Deep reached him on phone, and that guy, who appeared so bold and angry on the net, turned out to be a damn squib.

To the people calling me names: Find me a post of mine, where I have not posted facts. If you do find them, please let me know about 'em.

Aberforth said:
Sitting behind the safety of a computer screen and flaming and insulting someone who has different experience/opinions doesn't make one a winner.

... sitting in front of a computer screen and thinking its the best and has no flaws doesnt make it the best

has someone here used both mac and windows?Only that guy can give a fair statement.

mAV3 said:
... sitting in front of a computer screen and thinking its the best and has no flaws doesnt make it the best

I would love to meet the person who says that any platform is flawless. As long as it is made by made, it will have flaws.

As long as a man makes it, it can be broken.

andy said:
Again shows how misinformed you are. Mac OS X and Linux are quite similar to each other. What you can do in Linux, you can do is OS X, with the Terminal

isn't this again proving that MacOS is nothing original from Apple, but just another Unix/Linux clone, if that is so, they why are macboys so proud? I mean, they took CUPS, KHTML, SAMBA & don't know what else....what was the last thing Apple gave back to OSS community? nothing I guess. Even Quicktime technology is not available for Linux.

Wasen't it u who laughed , saying yourself OS 9 was not from Apple?

mav3 said:
... sitting in front of a computer screen and thinking its the best and has no flaws doesnt make it the best

Nailed at the perfect spot again

mail2and said:
Your previous posts speak for yourself. It needs no explanation.

If you think my few recent posts are prejudiced to Mac, then wht about yours? Yours is full of Mac Mac Mac only? Any other wor(l)d?

vimal_mehrotra said:
has someone here used both mac and windows?Only that guy can give a fair statement.

I have used Windows before. However, I was always a Linux guy before switching to OS X. In fact, I still am a linux guy! My disk's other partition was cross with me for forgetting to mention it!

vimal said:
has someone here used both mac and windows?Only that guy can give a fair statement.

Problems with Apple & MacOS X

Arrogent users who act eliete

You are forced to use the Hardware you get, there are extremely limited upgrade options unlike PCs. You can only upgrade by Apple, which costs a lot, although they are just PCs

Not many popular apps are compatible & also got no alternative. No good PIM client if u need one, seamonkey is still infant

No games

Benifits of MacOS X

No Virus & spyware so far, cos nobady gives a ****

MacOS X does crashes, anyone who says it never crashes is sure lieing. Even linux crashes many time for various reasons like driver or app incompatibility, & they are both based on the same foundation of UNIX.

Kiran_tech_mania said:
If you think my few recent posts are prejudiced to Mac, then wht about yours? Yours is full of Mac Mac Mac only? Any other wor(l)d?

Oh, yes. Many worlds. Finance, Politics, Current Affairs. For meaningful debates, search for debates between me and Yamaraj. I love discussing stuff with people who know.

I am a normal person, with a computer. It's not a part of my life, it's just a machine that I use. I've got far more important things in life to do, than to worry about computers.

A couple of other very distinguished members have given up arguing with you, because of your posts. Would you want me to mention that?

No Games

Originally Posted by vimal_mehrotra
has someone here used both mac and windows?Only that guy can give a fair statement.

I am constantly using windows and the mac. My PC config is given below, and I use it cause it happens to be the movie computer. It's got the speakers and the screen so I am forced to use it time to time (a lot of the time).

My iMac is a Core Duo 2Ghz with the usual stuff. And I also have an iBook as a laptop which I've used quite extensively.

I also manage about 10 PCs in the office. The usual networking, clearing out adware, viruses that get through. Shoving in RAM, checking why HDD is not booting up (loose cables, etc).

I had saved up cash since I was a little kid, and then after using the iBook for just a few months I realised that where my money was going. So I pissed it all away on my nice new iMac which I do not regret even for a day. I use it extensively for photoshop/dreamweaver. I do not use Microsoft Office for Mac, instead I choose to use Pages, a nice neat and clean app with just the stuff I need to use.

I have created presentations on Keynote which have blown away my audience (especially after my colleagues have finished with their drab and boring Powerpoint ones).

I have used the iBook for designing work when working at the film festival. Zero downtime, no crashes, and my God, no Viruses. The system admin there was constantly reformatting all the PCs and laptops around, but my iBook was chugging along nicely (and...downloading HD movies at 2mbps!)

I have used the PC for solitaire, found it to be boring, and used the version for the Mac dashboard instead.

@ goobimama

You are also a Mac user, but not a macboy, this is how it should be. U Should know the flaws of your device & admit it

@ Vimal

there are games, yes, but they are OpenGL based....which means not many. DirectX & Windows rules the gaming market.

B

All this talk of fanboyism applies to Linux users too. Infact it applies to Linux guys more than it applies to Mac users. Linux fanatics are the biggest elitists & extremists of the lot. They hate Microsoft & think that it is evil!. And that Linux is some kind of angel which is designed fight this evil!. Bullshit!.

PS: The real war starts now...now that I brought Linux into this.

Are the modern commercial games released for mac?like half-life 2

B

No there is no Half Life 2 for Mac. I don't think there ever will be a HL2 for Mac.

for some reason ... all apple users feel and share steve jobs' pain of loosing to the genius gates ... i guess all apple products emit steve jobs' pain ... u touch it and u feel it .... touch a mac and all of a sudden u start feeling tht gates' is a cheat windows sux and apple is the best ... all touch of a button .... thts the technology apple uses and no 1 knows abt ... 'itouch pity' -its called .... and 'i' is the lucky apple alphabet

mail2and said:
Oh, yes. Many worlds. Finance, Politics, Current Affairs. For meaningful debates, search for debates between me and Yamaraj. I love discussing stuff with people who know.

I am a normal person, with a computer. It's not a part of my life, it's just a machine that I use. I've got far more important things in life to do, than to worry about computers.

A couple of other very distinguished members have given up arguing with you, because of your posts. Would you want me to mention that?

So better stick to that field. You know nothing about Windows and also not much of Mac history which is evident from the OS 9 issue.

And stop behaving too childishly mentioning names of others here. That's the last thing one will do as a looser. Never forget, you are in Fight Club here. One is bound to get into arguements. It has happened in the past & will happen in future too. No question of giving up. Better read the quotes for Fight Club and enter here.

borg said:
All this talk of fanboyism applies to Linux users too. Infact it applies to Linux guys more than it applies to Mac users. Linux fanatics are the biggest elitists & extremists of the lot. They hate Microsoft & think that it is evil!. And that Linux is some kind of angel which is designed fight this evil!. Bullshit!.

PS: The real war starts now...now that I brought Linux into this.

Sorry, but I don't know why people confuse windows haters with MS haters. I hate MS-Xp and its predecessors because I have experienced them a lot. I dunno about VISTA, so I cant say much about it, but only expect goodies from it. On the other hand, I luv MS-Office, VMware and agree linux is inferior in gaming department. So please clear ur confusion about linux users (refer to bolded part) and stop dragging other OS and its users into the debate!

Kiran_tech_mania said:
So better stick to that field. You know nothing about Windows and also not much of Mac history which is evident from the OS 9 issue.

What about the OS 9 issue? OS 9 belongs to Apple. You clubbed it with XP, 9x and that is why I laughed. FYI, I emulate and run OS 9 in Classic mode a couple of times every week.

Well, as for knowing stuff about Windows, I bet I can beat you any day hands down.

And stop behaving too childishly mentioning names of others here. That's the last thing one will do as a looser.

Well, despite being a l'oo'ser, I've got a great life.

I couldn't thank god less for the amazing life that I've got.

@Borg

linux users do act same, but they are learners. Atleast they don't act elite, & they know there are not upto Windows in desktop usability department, but they admit they are catching up preety fast. Plz don't bring linux war here

@mav3

you again hit the nail. Steve jobs launched the Mac before Windows 1.0, he could have been the world's most richest person, his product could have been world most used OS/Hardware brand, but he lost to the serious & proper marketing methods of Bill gates with a good compeling product which was able to install on any X86 PC unlike Mac. MS littrally made the computing world what it is today, not Apple. Obviously Steve Jobs & Macboys are jealous of the success of Microsoft & it's users on many things

@ vimal

Half life 2 is not available, but it could be. The thing is, unlike ID software Valve, & many other game developers make their Game engine in DirectX, which cannot be ported to MacOS X

There is an OpenGL fallback engine in Half life 2, but it's nothing like DirectX engine & also its there just for compatibility purpose. Most of the games out there for Mac are due to id softwares game engine only

i've worked in all the three environments(windows and linux mostly and very little mac exposure), i've found linux to be the most stable of all and i'm using it most of the time now.

borg said:
And that Linux is some kind of angel which is designed fight this evil!. Bullshit!.

rather, i consider linux as the only free alternative available to users from paid OSes and the only way to curb piracy

mail2and said:
Well, as for knowing stuff about Windows, I bet I can beat you any day hands down.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

U made my day man

, sorry, boy

M

Andy I believe Minisha Lamba isn't the most beautiful woman in Bollywood, let's have a new thread on that.
kiran it's psychology
gx what's modular got to do with portability please explain. I genuinely don't know much about it.
And you don't follow your signature do you.

woops, sorry...thanx for reminding me mehul

about modular & portable, will tell u in conf

gx_saurav said:
you again hit the nail. Steve jobs launched the Mac before Windows 1.0, he could have been the world's most richest person, his product could have been world most used OS/Hardware brand, but he lost to the serious & proper marketing methods of Bill gates with a good compeling product which was able to install on any X86 PC unlike Mac. MS littrally made the computing world what it is today, not Apple. Obviously Steve Jobs & Macboys are jealous of the success of Microsoft & it's users on many things

Lol. Your level of ignorance baffles me. During Apple's lull, John Sculley was the CEO, and not Steve Jobs. In fact, Sculley, a former Pepsi CEO, got Steve Jobs out of his own company.

From 1985 to 1997, Steve Jobs was not a part of Apple. From a dominant position in the early 80s, Apple lost out on market share, primarily because of Sculley.

In 1997, when Apple was very close to selling out, they bought out NEXT, an OS created and designed to stay platform independent(PPC and x86) by Steve Jobs. This marked the re-entry of Jobs into Apple.

As for Microsoft's success, the credit goes to Paul Allen and Bill Gates.
__________

gx_saurav said:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

U made my day man, sorry, boy

So, you're very confident of kiran_tech_mania's skills? Good to see.
__________

gx_saurav said:
woops, sorry...thanx for reminding me mehul

about modular & portable, will tell u in conf

why not here? Because you have got nothing to say, have you?
__________

Vyasram said:
rather, i consider linux as the only free alternative available to users from paid OSes and the only way to curb piracy

True. There is not one modern OS that runs as well as Slackware(XFCE) on a 500 Mhz P3 with 128 MB Ram. I can say that because I had run zenwalk(a slack fork) in Virtual PC(PPC->x86). It ran faster than any version of Windows.

Linux is probably the answer to Windows, because it is platform independent and more importantly, manufacturer independent.

P.S. I M just sticking to whats correct, no point arguing with macboys

andy said:
So, you're very confident of kiran_tech_mania's skills? Good to see.

Nope, not him. but what you said about your knowledge of Windows OS

This thread sure is moving fast. It's almost like a chatroom!

mail2and said:
What about the OS 9 issue? OS 9 belongs to Apple. You clubbed it with XP, 9x and that is why I laughed. FYI, I emulate and run OS 9 in Classic mode a couple of times every week.
Well, as for knowing stuff about Windows, I bet I can beat you any day hands down.

Hmmm.... Grow up man...

tech_your_future said:
kiran it's psychology

Okay!

goobimama said:
This thread sure is moving fast. It's almost like a chatroom!

seems so....any way, i m signing out....off to bed

mail2and said:
Lol. Your level of ignorance baffles me. During Apple's lull, John Sculley was the CEO, and not Steve Jobs. In fact, Sculley, a former Pepsi CEO, got Steve Jobs out of his own company.

From 1985 to 1997, Steve Jobs was not a part of Apple. From a dominant position in the early 80s, Apple lost out on market share, primarily because of Sculley.

In 1997, when Apple was very close to selling out, they bought out NEXT, an OS created and designed to stay platform independent(PPC and x86) by Steve Jobs. This marked the re-entry of Jobs into Apple.

.... the ipity technology i was talking about

vimal_mehrotra said:
No Games

same Q i was gonna ask

isnt thr s/w or sumthin with which Windows games can be played on it (similar to linux)

btw, wat about HDD upgrades? do we have to buy frm Apple only or others work

s18000rpm said:
btw, wat about HDD upgrades? do we have to buy frm Apple only or others work

Unlike other computers, you can open up Macs. They don't have any 'warranty' seal or something like that. So, unless you break something, you can replace your hard disk, RAM, Processor etc(in some models) without voiding your warranty. However, you can not replace the motherboard yourself.

^^What about HDD upgrades?How do we increase the capacity?Do we have to buy it from apple.

so tat means we can also upgrade a Core2Duo (on supported Mac).
e.g. frm basic e6400 to extreme edition C2D.

wat gfx. card (onboard/dedicated) do Mac usually come with.

mAV3 said:
... sitting in front of a computer screen and thinking its the best and has no flaws doesnt make it the best

mail2and said:
I would love to meet the person who says that any platform is flawless. As long as it is made by made, it will have flaws.

As long as a man makes it, it can be broken.

Didn't see such contradictory statements...

Mac isn't best, its tied to a hardware, is overpriced, gets people possessed but its still good because its stable and easy to use. Don't agree with looks though, I hate the look of Macbooks and OS X interface both.

borg said:
Infact it applies to Linux guys more than it applies to Mac users. Linux fanatics are the biggest elitists & extremists of the lot. They hate Microsoft & think that it is evil!

Not all Linux users are like that. Some do believe it has drawbacks and do want to help Linux overcoming them. There are always extremists in all sides, someone who only recently shifted to Linux wants to feel and think himself a-class-apart, some kind of elite. Experienced Linux users and developers are different, borg and they are a lot nicer and they understand why people still like Windows and how can Linux be made better to cater to them.

Someone even went to claim people who don't use Linux don't understand the meaning of freedom and then threatens me to change my views before its too late....scary, these are the people who scare away others from shifting to Linux, they try to keep Linux like an underground elitist cult - far from humanity which Linux stands for.

mAV3 said:
'itouch pity' -its called .... and 'i' is the lucky apple alphabet

iHateWindows more like.

tech_your_future said:
Andy I believe Minisha Lamba isn't the most beautiful woman in Bollywood, let's have a new thread on that.

tech_your_future, watch out. Someone wouldn't like it and come to claim you have no sense of beauty and no experience in watching Bollywood movies and you either change your perception of Minisha Lamba before its too late...

there is no reason buying a high end gfx card in macs, cos these gfx cards are meant for games, & Mac hardly got games. Even the GMA 950 or upcoming GMA X3000 is enough to run MacOS X UI. Apple should switch to Intel onboard graphics now, atleast this will cut cost. They support full openGL 2.0 in hardware anyway which is what Aqua is based on

On Mac pro, the story is different, it's a workstation, so quadro or FireGL are required. Right now mac mini comes with onboard GMA 950, iMac comes with ATI graphics which is gaming grade, while Mac Pro comes with 3 options only, & you cannot install any other card other then these 3. Check apple hardware page to find more

For HD, you have to buy from Apple, the Mac Pro comes with custom HD connectors, which although are SATA based, but are not like the general SATA wires or pwoer connector (wonder why). iMac & mac mini...well, they are hardly user upgradable, so again you will need to call apple service, & they won't let you put in your own HD

Unlike PCs,you cannot just go in the market & buy a hardware if you want to install in Mac, there are huge compability issues with firmware & motherboards in Mac. Normal PC components other then those not requiring a driver, don't work. Such as RAM or HD

You didn't go to bed???

Somebady said about minisha lamba, that woke me up

gx_saurav said:
there is no reason buying a high end gfx card in macs, cos these gfx cards are meant for games, & Mac hardly got games. Even the GMA 950 or upcoming GMA X3000 is enough to run MacOS X UI.

I think its because intel based Macs have Windows too which means games which points to graphics cards.

Somehow I found FS 2002 does not run well on Macbook Pro like it does on my HP laptop.

vimal_mehrotra said:
You didn't go to bed???

Nop. I had a lot of coffee, its daytime in other parts of the world and I have a lot to do.

thanks for clarifying the doubts GX.

^^^^^^^^^ i guess vimal was talking about me

Yup dude

Aberforth said:
I think its because intel based Macs have Windows too which means games which points to graphics cards.

umm....yeah, like i said above, Apple needs Microsoft & Windows to survive. They know that games are a big market, & switching to same X86 platform , then providing native installation support Via bootcamp is just there "Elite Mock up" to hide their requirment of Windows, MS & Office.

Just think about it, if MacOS X is so good over Windows, like they say it is then why are they even providing support to install it in their hardware, that to official.

Andy ones said , "Apple is a hardware company & MacOS X is bundled just as an add on".

yup quite true.....I guess that they forgot, Apple Mac is also a PC (personal computer)

@ vimal

i was on XP man, working in 3d, i heard someone calling Miss. Minisha....so i jumped. I thought she came to this forum

gx_saurav said:
i was on XP man, working in 3d, i heard someone calling Miss. Minisha....so i jumped. I thought she came to this forum

Well I'm so sorry I couldn't call you up when she decided to peek in. By the way I find all these my-os-is-better-than-yours and linking sanity and freedom to OS choices a lot of bullshit. If one needs an OS to make a personality statement probably they don't have a personality in the first place. I choose my OSes, mobiles and mp3 players based on my needs, not because CIA, NASA or Steve Jobs recommends it in his keynote address about how great it is. Leave it as a choice instead of shoving it down their throats... Really....

Windows is still better than Macs and Linux from an entertainment point of view, you can play Mp3s, DVDs and games all-in-one. Maybe its not their fault but as it is...

^^you are right,just get what you want mac,windows,linux etc. and be happy,people are silly(no offence dudes

) to fight over this "issue"

vimal_mehrotra said:
^^you are right,just get what you want mac,windows,linux etc. and be happy,people are silly(no offence dudes) to fight over this "issue"

Okay then this is resolved. Lets start another "I Hate OS Fanboys" topic...

Lets do it....

^^You go first.

I will do it when the thread is closed

.

vimal_mehrotra said:
I will do it when the thread is closed.

I don't think there is any need to. No one is flaming and a healthy argument is always useful both for knowledge and experience in debates. Hope this thread doesn't get hijacked

Guess I will have to wait then

(let the people be free of this debate first)

Btw, you need a graphics card with Texture and Lighting to enable some of the more advanced visual effects in the Mac OS X UI. Such as the raindrop effect while dropping widgets into the dashboard. Or the Smoke effect which burns alongside of Disco (Man you should see this).

And Gaming isn't all that bad. We've got Blizzard with all their games. Doom 3 runs just fine on full resolution on the X1600 ATi. Sure its not meant for gaming, but that doesn't mean that we can't play the odd game or two...(who the hell am I kidding. Its got no games at all worth the mention!!! heheh)

goobimama said:
And Gaming isn't all that bad. We've got Blizzard with all their games. Doom 3 runs just fine on full resolution on the X1600 ATi. Sure its not meant for gaming, but that doesn't mean that we can't play the odd game or two...(who the hell am I kidding. Its got no games at all worth the mention!!! heheh)

Get MS Flight Simulator 2004 working on OSX 10 at 30+ FPS and I'm dumping my lappy tomorrow.

well there is one application i love to work with "shake" . . a marvelous one

. it only works in mac :-(

. i need to Dual boot my pc somehow

. to find one for Linux is quiet difficult too . well about o.s i like all ,as long as it helps my need

.

A

hi
this is my first post on this forum.
And these are just my personal thoughts on mac vs pc or whatever..not statements and i already understand that not everyone may feel the same as me...so pls dont take anything personally or as a statement about macs or pcs..these are just my opinions.
i have been using macs and pcs for a long time
my first pc was a 0866 runnig BASIC and the first "cheap little television" looking mac way way back.
as kids most of us were attracted to the mac because it was white had a gui and a rainbox on the monitor..lol
it also had a game.
the pc we used had a green screen and i used that to learn BASIC.
later i started using pcs more because it had games like digger,space patrol, pac man and moonbugs..i dont know if any of you guys ever played those games or not cos this is waay back in the day.
lol i remember i had the second highest score in moonbugs the higest score was held by my dads boss a 57 year old bearded 'shikari' who used to come to our house every evening to play games...lol
anyway the next 13 years i exclusively used pcs.
it was only when i was studying digital art in new york last year that i saw another mac..believe it!!!..macs are hard to find..lol
anyway, i now use macs and pcs(both) everyday.
i own a mac pro with(these r the highlights of my specs) 2 dual 3.00ghz intels
2 gb ram( i gb is apple and one gb is kingston)
an ati radeon x1900 with 512mb
and a 30" apple hd monitor(matte).
i use my mac exclusively for digital art purposes...i mean exclusively..i will sometime browse the web to search for a photoshop/maya tutorial or to get pictures to serve as a basis for a matte painting..maybe listen to a preview of a song, on itunes for inspiration or use itunes to download songs to my/my girlfriends ipod, watch some videos etc.Apart from that i only use it for digital art, mainly photoshop,jasc painter, bryce 3d, processing, imageready, illustrator, sometimes dreamweaver or flash, but very rarely, maya, final cut hd and logic pro 7. No ofice,no games etc..
i might scan photos or import digital images,video,analong audio etc, but thats all i use my mac for.
people who say a mac never crashes are lying, straight up, my mac has crashed 7 times since i bought it in december. i have installed no software on my own all the software i have came pre-installed.
And yes, files that are being used sometmes do get deleted.
Macs are not particularly faster than windows, and now with vista not particularly, easier to use.

A few problems i have faced with my macpro are:-

1) Bootcamp SUCKS
no seriously, it does photoshop loaded so slow and a maya full quality final render render took soo long that i cancelled it. so until it gives a comparable perfomance

2) The audio sequencer i have for windows is Cubase SX3 and that got killed too..very high latency, audio I/O signal drops, when i loaded too many vstis it froze for 3 minutes.
3) It also gets a little slow if i run too many programs at the same time, the apple tech people recommended that i needed 4 gigs of ram to hit the sweet spot of the mac. Also the apple online support people tried to convince me to buy very very expensive ram from apple saying that they do not guarantee the results otherwise, their ram is high quality, goes through stringent quality control etc etc...that is just bs i bought one gb kingston ram and replaced the ram that came with my mac..no drop in perfomance or stability..so yeah if your ram being 'perfect' etc gives you a hard on go for apple ram or kingston is same perfomance but much cheaper.

4) I am also dissapointed with the onboard audio..since mac is supposed to be for professionals in the field of AV they should atleast provide a better sound solution. I am pissed off at apple for the crappy audio solution they have provided..altough, apple customer support told me that they understood that audio pros would still go for an external audio card. Yes, i understand that too, but for more than $6,000 i expect more than that.

Now i still love my mac.
It looks good.
It enhances my creativity in a way a pc never can..i dont know what is it but a mac makes my creative juics flow unlike any pc ever has.
my creative output and productivity is increased on a mac since everything is so user friendly and easy that i dont even have to worry about stuff other than my art or music..
I like the lack of games on a mac because that would proove to be a distraction to me.
I love my apple hd 30" display it is just gorgeous and actually looks better than my 1080 hdtv.
I like how my work flows on a mac as opposed to pc where i usually end up playing games, messing with the os or just keeping my system maintained and tweaked, which i like doing on a pc not on a mac, i dont know why..lol but pcs just beg to be took apart and explore the os mess with the registry tweak etc but on a mac i dont get that urge.
Upgrading is easier the inside of a mac is clean..HDDs and ram can be bought by other manafacturers no need to only go to apple etc..

So its not like mac is the **** or mac is ****.
Macs and pcs are both basically different OSs the perfomance of a computer depends on the hardware as well as the software so if you build a windows vista running on the same specs as my mac im sure it would kick ass as good as my mac maybe even better if someone is building it on their own cos they can configure everything to their needs.
In India it is cheaper to have a computer assembled in america it is more expensive.
In India it may be cheaper to go to nehru place or lamington road and buy cheap parts but in america(generally-im not including ebay etc rather im talking about physical dealerships/shops) but in america if you buy each part seperate it is generally more expensive than say buying a computer with the same specs from dell. this is not true for high end systems. very true for low-end and mid-class systems.
In America apple gives education discounts.
Dell sent me a 45% off copon. So it is generally cheaper to buy a company machine.
I think the reason for the popularity for the mac has been
a)show-off value
b)apple gives great discounts to educational instutions and research based instutions
c)i think that appeles main customers are schools,universities,r&d places and professional gfx companies not people like you and me.
d) i dont think apple is worth paying more for
e) Some people are scared of technology apple hides technology well and is very easy to use therefore some people love it.
f) some people just use computers for casual purposes such as email and internet, to them the looks of a computer is more important than the specs.
g) Some people like me buy apple just because it has a certain program on which they are dependent upon to make their living(logic pro7 in my case)
h) Some people are more productive on a mac some more on a pc..so yea just like all of you said its just personal choice...its not like mac is better than the pc or vice versa its all about what is more suited to your needs, style and what environment you are comfortable.
In my case the heavy discount i was getting from apple and my university as well as the preloaded software(esp logic 7) that made me lean towards the mac and thats what made me bought it. otherwise i would have bought the dell and used it for digital art purposes only also..no games etc because that is the role i wanted my computer to serve..because i already have a vista loaded laptop for my games,msoffice,class notes,research,games etc.

In the end its all about choice and personal taste.
A mac can crash if you f k with it and overload it with too much stuff just like a pc.

both are just computers. both are just as good as the other.choice.choice.choice.

btw apples marketing is kick ass there are actually more macs being used in the united states than in the last 5 years..that is the job of marketing to lie and tempt you into buying a product that you have actually no need for.

audio_sadhu said:
people who say a mac never crashes are lying, straight up, my mac has crashed 7 times since i bought it in december. i have installed no software on my own all the software i have came pre-installed.
And yes, files that are being used sometmes do get deleted.
Macs are not particularly faster than windows..................
...................................................................

7 times crash since december!

Nice to see a BIG first post!

A

thanks kiran
macs generally dont crash that much
but since i use lots of VSTis at a time upto 34 and have a lot of wav and audio files on my computer as well as maya etc it does tend to get a little owerwhelmed and first it gets slow but as project material increases(audio samples,loops,vstis analong audio wav data etc) it starts freezing and then crashing until you run a thorough cleaning/mantainence..and i know for a fact that this is not the case of just one "lemonhead" machine because during the end of the semester at our university R&D lab(which by the way has 48 macs)lots of them crash because students put lots of stuff on them..
i guess a pc is the same if you abuse them they will abuse you..

goobimama said:
Btw, you need a graphics card with Texture and Lighting to enable some of the more advanced visual effects in the Mac OS X UI. Such as the raindrop effect while dropping widgets into the dashboard. Or the Smoke effect which burns alongside of Disco (Man you should see this).
)

This is available from Geforce 6100/GMA 900/Radeon x200 days in PC. Onboard graphics does sux for gaming, but it has enough texel power for runing an OS. & By the way, all gfx card obviously support texture & lightning man....you should learn a bit about how gfx cards work

@ audio_sadhu

Yup, Macs have been long used in 2D & 3D desigining cos What u see is what u get, the color model is CMYK so, it's easier to work in it directly. Your Mac pro looks juicy, wanna rent it for some 3ds max renderings

I was hoping to hear something from someone pro, in this field.

Audio latency has long been a problem. macs don't even have Intel HD Audio despite of the fact they are using Core duo & Intel chipsets. I wonder if M-Audio cards work in mac

.

& 4 GB RAM, what the.....even Vista runs fine on 1 GB, & Super fine with 2 GB, more isn't required in case of Vista, unless application want it

audio_sadhu said:
that is the job of marketing to lie and tempt you into buying a product that you have actually no need for

U summed up the apple marketing terms in one line. lieing

@ rajasekharan

Shake is an awsome application, but again Limited by Apple's Markereting. Get this, Shake 4.1 for Mactel = $500 only, but u need atleast a $2300 Mac Pro to run it properly. Add to it more RAM, atleast 2 GB.

Shake for linux = $3000

Did someone said viral marketing?

L

audio_sadhu said:
So its not like mac is the **** or mac is ****.

gx_saurav said:
This is available from Geforce 6100/GMA 900/Radeon x200 days in PC. Onboard graphics does sux for gaming, but it has enough texel power for runing an OS. & By the way, all gfx card obviously support texture & lightning man....you should learn a bit about how gfx cards work

Yep! Mac has got really a horrible video subsystem which makes it useless for advanced 3D rendering. Windows clearly wins in this area becoz of its open architecture. This advantage makes it best for Video cards ripping off advanced graphic rendering impeccably.

kiran said:
Yep! Mac has got really a horrible video subsystem which makes it useless for advanced 3D rendering. Windows clearly wins in this area becoz of its open architecture. This advantage makes it best for Video cards ripping off advanced graphic rendering impeccably.

Yo, nothing like that. Macs do not have a horrible graphical sub system at all, it's all OpenGL, quite pro lavel

3D Rendering is of 3 types

1) In Game rendering, this is real time & used in games only

2) 3D animation & arch. Vis, like the ones done with 3Ds Max & Maya, this uses 0% GPU power & features, this is all CPU based rendering, this is the reason it's very difficult to achive such quality in games even with powerful GPU. Nvidia does have gelato & Maya does have Hardware rendering, but they only use the GPU's calculation ability while rendering, not the GPU features

3) Viewport rendering, this is what u see when u make something in 3Ds Max or Maya or blender or anything, This is pure openGL based, in case of application running on Windows, this is on the fly converted to DirectX data where aplicable with same quality. This is where pro lavel graphics card are required, so that they can work at the same time on shaders & see high quality in-viewport previews, all in full OpenGL

When it comes to workstations apps, Windows & Mac perform almost similar, cos these applications do not depend usually on the OS subsystem, they are self contained platforms.

DirectX alone makes it very easy for gaming, but trust me, DirectX up to version 9 was not made for anything other then gaming. Now DX 10 is here to take on OpenGL 2.0 in pro market, but i doubt if it will take over anytime soon, OpenGL 2.0 is already stablished

Aberforth said:
Hope this thread doesn't get hijacked

Somebody already tried to hijack it twice by mentioning Minisha Lamba :))

, and poor gx_saurav missed nearly 2 hours of sleep.

Gx_saurav: You seem to know a lot about 3dsmax and maya. I've some questions regarding mental ray rendering in maya. Can you help me? Shall I create a thread in S/w troubleshooting?

gx_saurav said:
Yo, nothing like that. Macs do not have a horrible graphical sub system at all, it's all OpenGL, quite pro lavel

3D Rendering is of 3 types

1) In Game rendering, this is real time & used in games only

2) 3D animation & arch. Vis, like the ones done with 3Ds Max & Maya, this uses 0% GPU power & features, this is all CPU based rendering, this is the ..................

Ahem... I am aware that it's OpenGL. Might be the word "horrible" is bit of a carry away. Anyways, do you mean to say that OpenGL is superior than Direct3D? And what about the status of consumed hardware resources availability to User? I heard that the OpenGL hides hardware details like whether it is even being used or not. Moreover OpenGL requires the manipulation of pixel buffers. This is much complicated than the Direct3D's method of rendering. This leads to large performance difference.

Okay maybe it was Texture and Lighting 2.0. My point is that you need a graphics card to enable those effects (macbooks, ibooks, and mac minis don't have that feature). I state that I don't know how graphics cards work (per se)

Both my macs have never crashed (except when one disconnects a connected server. It takes about 15 minutes to realise something and then comes back to normal).

M

audio_sadhu pc's and windows aren't interchangeable words. There's a lot more to PC and we would appreciate it if you don't use those 2 words interchangeably.

well both direct x and open GL are different and some features are never present in open GL like "reflection"....u can only fake a reflection , while u can easily create a reflection in direct x....

the reason why you have graphics card for texturing and lighting is to cut the load of the cpu.....you can do everything that you see in games in max with a low end card...all your HDRI, soft shadows works perfectly fine, there are two things that you look here weather you are running a mac or a pc
1.ram,ram,ram,ram....the more the merrier.
2.cpu
thats all , a graphic card helps in view port .....thats all.

of course , when you go to post production utilities like combustion...the graphic card plays a major role , since much is transfered to the card, but that again is with the view port.....

i believe the ability of mac to use more ram is the greatest plus point in 3d s/w.....and its this area where windows lags seriously

@gx_saurav.....well i will try to , ahem, *cough* crack *hmmm* it...

M

gx_saurav said:
U summed up the apple marketing terms in one line. lieing

Now plz don't say MS doesn't lie while marketing.

B

Lol

Mac people are getting blasted here!

As far as I am concerned, I started computing on a Mac. It was a Mac LC with 4 Mb of ROM, 258 MB HDD & a 20 MHz processor!!!. :lol:

I still have it, but it doesn't work anymore.

I have switched to PC since then (for a lot of reasons including gaming). Now I use Kubuntu/XP dualboot, but i still follow Apple very closely. I still like Macs & will buy one when I can.

A Mac might not be a perfect machine (nothing is), but it has a certain something about it that attracts a lot of people.

tech_your_future said:
Now plz don't say MS doesn't lie while marketing.

Of course they do. Its naive to think honesty would trigger a product to such a position in the market. Everybody likes throwing mud a competitors so that their product looks fresh. So do a lot of misinformed Linux users who use the wrong methods to market Linux and give it a bad name.

Steve Job's keynote addresses are quite manipulating...if we have a marketing guru award, Jobs would top the list. I was nearly tempted to think iPhone can beat Oxygen PDAs.

blackpearl said:
Gx_saurav: You seem to know a lot about 3dsmax and maya. I've some questions regarding mental ray rendering in maya. Can you help me? Shall I create a thread in S/w troubleshooting?

Mental ray is my prefered renderer, I don't know about Maya's method, but since the renderer is same in 3ds max 9 & Maya 8.5 I will be able to help you, however, i m leaving lucknow on 22nd feb, got job in gurgaon, convergys, Windows XP/Vista tech service operative

Kiran_tech_mania

OpenGL is superior then DX in professional tasks, when it comes to gaming, each one has advantage over the other. I don't even know that much detail, so won't talk

rajasekharan said:
i believe the ability of mac to use more ram is the greatest plus point in 3d s/w.....and its this area where windows lags seriously

Windows XP didn't use the idle RAM, Vista does, so this novelty is no longer exclusive to Mac now, again,...no reason going for Mac even if u r pro. However XP did used the idle RAM if an application asked for it. Trust me, you won't find a similarly configured Mac faster then XP/Vista in rendering or compositing

(Note that many workstations apps are not compatible with Vista yet)

borg said:
Lol

Mac people are getting blasted here!

Macboys always get blasted, they come again & again & get pwned...still they come again with same old zibbrish, for no valid reason. I do admire there arrogance & ignorence though

, it's one of a kind

mehul said:

Now plz don't say MS doesn't lie while marketing.

Click to expand...

Microsoft, & other companies in PC industry are straight forward, they do not make fun of their competitors like Apple does, cos they don't have to. Apple & Mac people, have to convince & sing same tune again & again, while MS knows what people expect from their OS & why it dominates the market. Windows is made for Work out there......with some tweaking & free 3rd party apps you can make it designer & yeh, fun to use.

One thing PC sux right now is the current hardware design. Mac mini is a cool machine, at such a small size....it's really powerful for home usage. iMac Core duo design sux, trust me....iMac G4 was much better, & Mac Pro,, well....i will take an alienware or Dell over it anyway. Good thing is that the companies are realising that now Computers are not work machines, they are consumer devices, so they are coming with new designs, take a look at the new Acer desktops, so small yet powerful, & the HP touchscreen PC shown in CES 2006

B

I still think Linux fanatics are by far more rabid & elitist than Mac users. Just go to any forum & criticise Linux in anyway & see what happens. We have seen the same many times on this very forum.

Congrats for the new job GX. You are the PSS (Product Support Specialist) guy now.

M

borg said:
I still think Linux fanatics are by far more rabid & elitist than Mac users. Just go to any forum & criticise Linux in anyway & see what happens. We have seen the same many times on this very forum.

Constructive criticism is all right but trolling isn't tolerated ever. And it's a fact that you are a troll.
Bringing in linux and fanaticism where it wasn't in the topic clearly shows how desperately you want to take revenge for being blasted off for trolling.

@Gx: Trust you? Who are you, the current expert on aesthetics? ? Are you an expert on aesthetics? And even if you did get a PhD in the aesthetics department, you still can't say that something or someone doesn't look good (except for Kareena Kapoor...)

Maybe you don't like it and prefer to go ahead and work on that "dull little box doing dull little tasks", but the world over the iMac G5/Intel design has got an amazing response...

B

Constructive criticism is all right but trolling isn't tolerated ever. And it's a fact that you are a troll.
Bringing in linux and fanaticism where it wasn't in the topic clearly shows how desperately you want to take revenge for being blasted off for trolling.

Typical response from a fanatic. Was expecting it. Proved my point.

The reason for me bringing Linux into the discussion is that since the thread talks about elitism among Mac users, the same criticism applies to Linux fanatics as well.

M

borg said:
Typical response from a fanatic. Was expecting it. Proved my point.

I would rather be called a fanatic then a troll like you.

B

I would rather be called a fanatic then a troll like you.

Hehehe. very funny. Lets all laugh.

CTRL ing myself to the limits ::

Oh comon u linux users......stop acting kidish now, specially u freebird

First of all this is a thread why Mac should be hated, Linux should not be dragged here, there is a seperate thread for that

freebird said:
So All future computer aspirants must change their god with Mr.Bill and Learn the greatest equation the world have got:
Code:

PC=Windows*

where,* stands for the versions of WIndows.And all GNU/Linux users and *NIX users are arrogant and trolls.
Also Microsoft is the new religion,they are doing a great charity by giving us the freedom to pi*ate?wow.
Windows* never crashes;it occassionally sleeps.if u want to wakeup give a kick on the reset switch of your PC.
ps:keep the equation safe windows user,it is useful

No one started talking about Linux here, no one bashed it

then why r u acting like a troll now

about borg, man, plz refrain from bringing Anti-Linux posts here, plz

MS ka naam jidhar linux aur apple wahan .... only 1 agenda any feature of MS is bad a similar feature in others its the best

^^^^^ true...either some users are super jealous of MS success or just ranting cos they have nothing else to do.

Atleast some users know how to act properly, & praise MS or Linux where it stands

all i know is i like all o.s , why ? there are some that works on some . . . and i really dont mind if that o.s looks crap or it has n number of security holes or its the safest or its the best looking . as long as it helps me i am happy

. i just want my work done thats all

^^ then this thread was not started for u

@saurav . . ok , leave this topic aside and lets talk productivity

. . hey even i want to learn all about mentalray . can you start a new topic and give us your own tutees about mental ray

. please . i am more comfy with vray than mental , cause i still dono how to use it properly :-(

. else why am i not getting the same output :-(

. please help me :-(

M

borg said:
Typical response from a fanatic. Was expecting it. Proved my point.

The reason for me bringing Linux into the discussion is that since the thread talks about elitism among Mac users, the same criticism applies to Linux fanatics as well.

Oh so and what good do you do?
Looking back at your posts I only see you rant and bray about all OS'es. You have nothing but idiotic responses to give. If you think you are better than them, then prove it. Do something useful sometimes then shout out that nothing is good.
Have you heard the saying

Dhobi ka kutta na ghar ka na ghat ka.

Apt saying for you. You can't use any OS without shouting out that it's crap. And all your reasons are so hillarious, to say the least.
And if we say anything you just say, "This is the typical response I expected from <put your OS here> fanatic." Do you have something to say that is meaningful?

rajasekharan said:
@saurav . . ok , leave this topic aside and lets talk productivity . . hey even i want to learn all about mentalray . can you start a new topic and give us your own tutees about mental ray . please . i am more comfy with vray than mental , cause i still dono how to use it properly . else why am i not getting the same output . please help me

Well, start a thread in Software section, i m sure not many will be active in it though.

I don't have any tutorials of my own, i also follow the ones given on cgtalk.com, Jeff Patton is the MRAY God, you should go through his MRay tutorials if u want to learn the basics, this is how i did

Vray is easy but slow, & good only for still renders. If that is what u mostly make then stick with Vray, i am also learning vray 1.5 r3 right now, cos it is very good for archi, & for vray mats i use evermotion mats collection. I find making shaders & mats for mray much easier then vray

B

@tech_your_future

Man seems like you are pissed! :lol:

an I wasn't even attacking you directly!.

Proves that you are a fanatic, fanboy. You are proving everything for me.

^^ What happened borg? Such a crappy comeback? You would have been better off saying.... "I am idiot?...no...you are idiot."

M

Let's add fuel to the fire.
Here's someone moving from windows to mac *apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/08/2031244&from=rss

tech_your_future said:
Let's add fuel to the fire.
Here's someone moving from windows to mac *apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/08/2031244&from=rss

Sudhar ja

I don't want to be a part of this great discussion, but I am posting here a link, for all Mac lovers & haters, which shows an extensive demo of MacOS X. I think this will help to clarify many doubts about Mac and also make the posts more interesting to read. Please check out this video and then comment...

I don't know whether this was posted before or not...
BTW I am a full time Linux user...

borg said:
You are proving everything for me.

borg i hope if u got all the proof u need and ur case is solved ur presence in this thread will subside ... so that the "discussion" can go on without useless interupptions

borg said:
@tech_your_future

Man seems like you are pissed!

an I wasn't even attacking you directly!.

Proves that you are a fanatic, fanboy. You are proving everything for me.

r u paid by M$ r r u Billy

gx_saurav said:
First of all this is a thread why Mac should be hated

You have this sort of attitude and you have the nerve to say that you are not a fanboy/biased towards Windows. You've already established that Macs should be hated and are out to teach everyone why they should do so. Great! Man, you do not even deserve pity.

gx_saurav said:
Macboys always get blasted, they come again & again & get pwned...still they come again with same old zibbrish, for no valid reason. I do admire there arrogance & ignorence though , it's one of a kind

Reported.

aryayush said:
You have this sort of attitude and you have the nerve to say that you are not a fanboy/biased towards Windows. You've already established that Macs should be hated and are out to teach everyone why they should do so. Great! Man, you do not even deserve pity.

I was not wrong, when I said macboys come again & again for the same thing & get pwned, this thread was dieing, mac discussion removed....i did not posted from many days here, yet out of no where, since you had nothing productive to post or do, u bumped it with another first personal comment to me

Whats the name of this thread arya? plz read again, it's "I hate Macs", & everyone is posting why they hate it, it's same as saying this thread is about why Macs should be hated...comon boy, act like a mature person.

Oh! well...i m reported again, when this time i did not posted anything negative or personal. Guys anyone supporting me this time?

FatBeing said:
For every logical argument you put forth for your camp (PC/Mac), you get to take one dig at the opposing camp.

arya, gx, take some time out for ignoring this.

B

Oh comon fatbeing, this time i didn't even posted anything personal, he posted though....why ban me? I was not even posting in this thread from 2 days, he came up with personal comment.

how long M I banned for?

o! cmon fatbeing for once atleast let us have a no-holds barred thread on this topic .... tech_y_f was also getting into some form

L

*wonders if it is possible to talk about any OS in this forum*

GX is shameful misery for nothing this time, I don't see any personal comment from his side . Not fair.

This thread should not have been started if ppl were going to get banned without making any personal comments.

fatbeing said:
I hereby proclaim this thread Flamebait! For this thread only, I have a new rule:

For every logical argument you put forth for your camp (PC/Mac), you get to take one dig at the opposing camp. But:

1. No profanity
2. No insulting family members/upbringing/other insults that count as "below the belt"

Draw yer swords!

GX banned

I don't think he has done anything wrong....
This is just not right.

yeah, there is no reason for em to get banned, btw, we were enjoying the fight.

@fatbeing: make ur statements clear before executing them

yup its not Fair - Gx dude getting banned

Guys,I really think now there is no point continuing this debate on...
Admin Please lift the ban over gx.

The rules were simple. Present a logical argument, get the opportunity to take a dig at the opposition. Both gx and arya took the latter, and ignored the former towards the end of the thread. They'll be back in 3 days.

thts wat happens wen ur playing on others' turf .... and no offence but fatbeing u too know a lil bit of pushing and shoving doesnt result in a red/yellow card else thr wudnt be a winner in any game

B

r u paid by M$ r r u Billy

r u paid by Linus?.

L

vimal_mehrotra said:
Is the ban permanent?

FatBeing said:
They'll be back in 3 days.

borg said:
r u paid by Linus?.

you just showed your stupidity. a linux fan need not be paid by linux, coz linux is mostly a community venture . Buy windows isn't a community venture and if someone swears by it and bashes other OS's for no reason, then (s)he may be suspected to have got paid by M$

^^ ur discussion is absolutely stupid and dilutes the topic at hand

mna... y does evy ms vs mac vs *nix result in 2-3 ppl banned

Gx banned...

, but will be back in 3 days...

, now that nice.....

i dont really think anyone should be banned in the fight club.......i dont think they proclaim a ww3 here , they just fight for fun...

, all are good friends here....so MODS ignore this forum...

exactly..

Good lord!! what happened? 2 guys got banned!!

yup

Not again!

@fatbeing i think most of us are against ur desicion of banning members in this thread and wud request u to give a clarification even though ur an admin

mAV3 said:
@fatbeing i think most of us are against ur desicion of banning members in this thread and wud request u to give a clarification even though ur an admin

If any one has a problem with a decision taken by an admin/moderator, then he/she/it should ask for the reason via PM.