i got this mail today and hought it was worth sharing ... it does give rise to a bigger question and that is islam to be blamed for terrorism?
the email said:
is blaming islam correct
Nice question, but u missed one simple point! In all of these examples u have used the term "was" and "were". Ofcors their colonialism "was" the biggest terrorist act. But times have changed since then. If u want to term "colonialism" as a terrorist act "now" and want to punish Birtishers becoz of that, then why not punish muslims becoz of their Mughal rule in India and their acts of destroying beautiful Indian temples and scriptures?
But today we see terrorism "mostly" by Muslims. i.e extremists? Its annoys further when the common muslims curse americans or christians in some cases etc for bombarding IRAQ, afghanistan and then asking to clarify the Muslims casualties there. Why do they distinguish the casualties on the basis of religion? Did they "all" ever felt the same remorse for all those kasmiri pandits who are/were killed, americans who died in 9/11 etc?
If a muslim nation is attacked by ISRAEL or american then they "all" start criticising and cursing the foreign nation or again christians in some case. Why didn't they curse Iran or Iraq in IRA-IRAQ war? or People of baloch or Pakistan in the tension between balochistan and pakistan? Coz their is no other religion present except ISLAM or a NON-ISLAMIC nation to curse?
Do u know more than half of the Americans and Britons condemned their leaderships actions in Iraq?
Its not that the world is hating the Muslims becoz of ISLAM, but becoz the tensions start arising becoz of their practices of demanding sharia wherever they go.
If they want to live in a country then they shud live by their rules and not start demanding some special priviledges for themselves thinking of which the INDIAN democracy has been mocked to an unlaughable limit!
Its becoz of the common practise of "some" maulanas and clerics that start issuing fatwas against liberal Muslims when some start talking against ISLAM. Many a times order was passed by extremists to kill them which we see commonly now becoz of which they start living in exile.
Here's a link that reflects the anger!
I respect all religions equally, but it "is" the reality that cannot be ignored!
But today we see terrorism "mostly" by Muslims. i.e extremists? Its annoys further when the common muslims curse americans or christians in some cases etc for bombarding IRAQ, afghanistan and then asking to clarify the Muslims casualties there. Why do they distinguish the casualties on the basis of religion? Did they "all" ever felt the same remorse for all those kasmiri pandits who are/were killed, americans who died in 9/11 etc?
If a muslim nation is attacked by ISRAEL or american then they "all" start criticising and cursing the foreign nation or again christians in some case. Why didn't they curse Iran or Iraq in IRA-IRAQ war? or People of baloch or Pakistan in the tension between balochistan and pakistan? Coz their is no other religion present except ISLAM or a NON-ISLAMIC nation to curse?
Do u know more than half of the Americans and Britons condemned their leaderships actions in Iraq?
Its not that the world is hating the Muslims becoz of ISLAM, but becoz the tensions start arising becoz of their practices of demanding sharia wherever they go.
If they want to live in a country then they shud live by their rules and not start demanding some special priviledges for themselves thinking of which the INDIAN democracy has been mocked to an unlaughable limit!
Its becoz of the common practise of "some" maulanas and clerics that start issuing fatwas against liberal Muslims when some start talking against ISLAM. Many a times order was passed by extremists to kill them which we see commonly now becoz of which they start living in exile.
Here's a link that reflects the anger!
I respect all religions equally, but it "is" the reality that cannot be ignored!
but the glaring fact is that its muslims (islam) v/s the west (christians) ... and countries like india are caught in the middle 
And the more sorry part is that the politicians use it to do the vote bank politics.
Its not the the religeon ISLAM is bad its that terrorists who believe in ISLAM are bad.
Wo kahte hai na... Ek Machli Pure Talab ko ganda kar deti hai.
Wo kahte hai na... Ek Machli Pure Talab ko ganda kar deti hai.
par ek baar zyada machli gandi ho jayen toh talab ganda keh lata haiQuiz_Master said:
mediator said:
completely agree dude...sad but true
Nuke Osama bin laden or whoever is terrorist. Islam rox....if you know the goods of islam (there are bads though) u r gonna admire it. Just come to lucknow & you will know what Living together means. We celebrate holi together, & even Bakareid together (i love my friend's mom's made chicken)
D
great fact about lucknow is atal bihari vajpaye is mp from lucknow. And majority of the people there r muslims. I think that is the only rare place in india where muslims vote for bjp
Yup, thats a rare case. We enjoy Bajpayi ki puriya as well as tunday kabab as well as Mconald's burgers, everything here.
U.P. has no religion politics. Infact no one gives a damn here whether u r hindu or muslim or cristian or sikh or jain.....if u do some mistake or some thing good, u r equally bashed or commanded. Ask me, I had gfs from all 3 major religions so far....:">
U.P. has no religion politics. Infact no one gives a damn here whether u r hindu or muslim or cristian or sikh or jain.....if u do some mistake or some thing good, u r equally bashed or commanded. Ask me, I had gfs from all 3 major religions so far....:">
D
gx_saurav: but u.p has caste politics
i might be wrong but the world at large in large is locked in 3 wars ....
1. israeli - palestinian
2. west - rest
3. india - pakistan
2 of these are based on religion and 1s faith but the third 1 is made into a religion and faith war where as it is not
1. israeli - palestinian
2. west - rest
3. india - pakistan
2 of these are based on religion and 1s faith but the third 1 is made into a religion and faith war where as it is not
Ya, & I hate that. To be very frank, the literate crowd of U.P. doesn't care about it. The politicians find it easy to manipulate the mindset of rural people which make a majority of the population. Thats where the cast politics works.
even in my school days most of my friends were muslims.
and i never cared about that.
we even shared our tiffins together (only veg.)
and we are still in contact with each other.
there is no hatred amongst us.
religion never played a part in our relationship.
and i never cared about that.
we even shared our tiffins together (only veg.)
and we are still in contact with each other.
there is no hatred amongst us.
religion never played a part in our relationship.
It is a fact that people see what the media wants them to see. When the Hyderabad Mosque bombing took place, Aaj Tak was saying "Suspicions of Alleged involvement of Muslim terrorist group" in that little ticker at the bottom of the screen.
10 minutes later, it was saying "Muslim terrorist group involved"...WTF? No reason, nothing...I was watching the news non-stop. All the people out there who think they are authorities on Islam, Muslims and terrorism are just the spineless wimps who've been brainwashed into thinking this. Or they're just narrow minded bigots to begin with...
As for the topic, I don't think Islam can be blamed for anything. Terrorism should be blamed on terrorists. Its like saying all Hindus are racist, or all Christians are stupid...just because some people of that faith are like that.
10 minutes later, it was saying "Muslim terrorist group involved"...WTF? No reason, nothing...I was watching the news non-stop. All the people out there who think they are authorities on Islam, Muslims and terrorism are just the spineless wimps who've been brainwashed into thinking this. Or they're just narrow minded bigots to begin with...
As for the topic, I don't think Islam can be blamed for anything. Terrorism should be blamed on terrorists. Its like saying all Hindus are racist, or all Christians are stupid...just because some people of that faith are like that.
but the problem is that those 'terrorists' portray their deeds as they are saviors of islam
iMav said:
So?? Is the VHP saviours of Hinduism?? Just because someone says something, doesn't mean its true. I don't mean to attack you, as I can see that you and I are on the same page here, mostly.
Just trying to show that just because they call themselves saviours of Islam, doesn't mean that the rest of the world gets off blaming Islam for every damn thing.
well then why isnt the muslim community collectively dsoing anything against them ... if u can issue a fatwa and death threat against salman rushdie the danish cartoonist and give an honorary award to osama it gives out different signals
What the police will unearth/report, is what the media reports. Malegaon blast and now a deja-vu? Have u forgotten what the media and people were saying that time? Have u forgotten what the accused revealed? Those terrorist don't think if u r a muslim or hindu. All they aim is to create instability in our nation!
If it were to be said/true that "all" muslims r terrorists then there wud have been a full-fledged bloodblath in INDIA by now!! Again u r confusing the statement that "Most terrorists r muslims" with "All muslims r terrorists"! The only solution to this problem is that the people of INDIA work together collectively keeping aside their religions. AFAIR, there was a news that a muslim regiment in army refused to fight paki soldiers coz the opponents were muslims. Now how wud a common non-muslim citizen of INDIA wud feel? Here's a post/reply from this site
I'm extremely sorry that I'm linking u to a blog, but this was in one of the first results of google. If this intrigues u, then u can google for more else I'll find it for u if I have the time!! But its the truth!!
The problems like this will keep on arising until and unless "all" the Muslims of INDIA collectively condemn the paki terrorists. Some terrorists get shelter in a local madrassa e.g Rajasthan one that we recently saw, some get aides in INDIAN states itself, then do u expect the problem to be solved?
In such a case its only ISLAM that gets defamed! Have u read the link that I gave in my first post here? For improving the face of ISLAM today, muslims need to be liberal. But its sad that liberal muslims r the ones who get attacked again n again and then have to live in exile!!
One one side the Muslim unity is haunting many muslims and on the other, those Paki terrorists r mocking it like ROFLMAO!!
iMav said:
Who exactly constitutes the Muslim community? Those 80 something year old mullahs? Or people like me and your other Muslim friends?? Tell you what, go out there and ask any muslim guys/gals you know what they think about these issues...
Why don't we do anything about it? Because we don't care...we know our moulvis are screwed up, and we also know that they are attention-whores...
Mate, I've had it with all this Islam bashing, but I don't even give a fsck anymore.
@Mediator: Like I said, brainwashed...
look man didnt want to turn it into a fight just a question that was in my mind and hence i posted it .... peace man dont issue a fatwa against me
dont issue a fatwa against me
@ faraaz:nobody has engaged in "islam bashing" here. its just open talk. muslims must collectively do something to root it out, they should take on the "attention seekers"...if no action is taken, the "attention seekers" will only get more powerful. the liberals should not just sit and do nothing....
@someoneelse:Is Lucknow that much a calm city?I dont think so.as per the news reports it still gets sectorial clashes 
u know what i mean.
u know what i mean.
Who's bashing ISLAM? Rather its those terrorists and ur maulvis and people like Bukhari of Jama Masjid who r mocking ISLAM by their (mis)deeds. U can say wateva to me personally, it doesn't matter. But if u don't like the reality then I feel sad for u. Instead of facing it, u r saying others r brainwashed? Its like an OS1 Vs OS2 war where people from both the sides keep shouting but nobody is bothered to understand each others viewpoint and hence 'repeating the history again n again'.
I don't have anything against ISLAM and understand how u feel, but u shud do the same and understand the reality, what I am saying and how a non-muslim feels about such things!!
look faraaz thts a general perception that i put in a very blunt manner thats all man im sorry if any of my comments were against Islam in any way
I just want to say is ISLAM can not be blamed for any terrorist activities .
DO U THINK THAT when ever there is a terrorist attack in our country or in other country they send the news to local muslims that no muslim should be present at that time because we r going to attack . NO, NOT AT ALL
they don't even want to know who u r and what is ur religion they just do it .
take incidents like 9/11 or 93 bomb blast ? do u think no muslims was injured or dead ?
If they followed ISLAM . Then they should have also followed the ISLAM RULES .but do they follow ? no , not at all
if they were one sided ( towards islam ) , then there were never been attacks on muslim areas or masjids and in muslim countries .
but they attack on this areas also . so this say that they are just terrorist . and they should be just killed .
DO U THINK THAT when ever there is a terrorist attack in our country or in other country they send the news to local muslims that no muslim should be present at that time because we r going to attack . NO, NOT AT ALL
they don't even want to know who u r and what is ur religion they just do it .
take incidents like 9/11 or 93 bomb blast ? do u think no muslims was injured or dead ?
If they followed ISLAM . Then they should have also followed the ISLAM RULES .but do they follow ? no , not at all
if they were one sided ( towards islam ) , then there were never been attacks on muslim areas or masjids and in muslim countries .
but they attack on this areas also . so this say that they are just terrorist . and they should be just killed .
@iMav, mediator,nix: I never said you were personally doing islam bashing...and honestly, I don't particularly care what anyone on these boards says about Islam. I don't need my faith to be validated by a 3rd person.
But honestly, I'll tell you one thing...one can say "The liberals must get together and do something about the vocal minority"...but I ask you...HOW do you do that? How does anyone make a difference in a situation like this?
But honestly, I'll tell you one thing...one can say "The liberals must get together and do something about the vocal minority"...but I ask you...HOW do you do that? How does anyone make a difference in a situation like this?
All of you, what r u fighting for?
Yes the terrorist are saying that they are doing all this nonsense for islam & yes, the high priests give them support. But remember, it is there culture. there they do not hate Osama, they like them. The fire is from both side, wasn't it America who once aided Osama themselves?
Just remember one rule. No matter what religion u r, whether Hindu or Islam or Christian, if you are asked to kill some innocent person in the name of god, then the high priest is indeed a idiot whether it is some maulana or some sant or even the pope.
No religion in this world tell you to kill someone innocent. Those who kill in the name of god are just doing this for there own sins & blaming the god. They don't believe in god & god is there just to put the blame on.
Now can we just enjoy the sewaniyan & French fries.
Yes the terrorist are saying that they are doing all this nonsense for islam & yes, the high priests give them support. But remember, it is there culture. there they do not hate Osama, they like them. The fire is from both side, wasn't it America who once aided Osama themselves?
Just remember one rule. No matter what religion u r, whether Hindu or Islam or Christian, if you are asked to kill some innocent person in the name of god, then the high priest is indeed a idiot whether it is some maulana or some sant or even the pope.
No religion in this world tell you to kill someone innocent. Those who kill in the name of god are just doing this for there own sins & blaming the god. They don't believe in god & god is there just to put the blame on.
Now can we just enjoy the sewaniyan & French fries.
gx_saurav said:Now can we just enjoy the sewaniyan & French fries.
What french fries??
What more do u want to be done for the minority? They r already enjoying so many priviledges! Now if inspite of that if the minority needs something to be done specially for them then who can help them? Who knows tomorrow they'll ask for more! If anything is to be done then it is to be done by themselves. Like I said in previous debate many Muslims dont consider themselves as INDIANS today also but as Pakistanis, some give preference to religion over nation and people like Bukhari do politics more than preaching!
There was just a line said by POPE and we saw months of agitation by MUSLIMS all over in INDIA. Likewise why not stage peaceful protests and give a messege to Paki terrorists that INDIANS will not be fooled by their little tricks?
U say media always bashes Muslims. Where were u when media was showing the unity when there was MUMBAI blasts, delhi blasts, srinagar blasts etc?? Paki terrorists is not operating from pakistan alone. It has hotbeds in Bangladesh, NEPAL and even srilanka AFAIK covering the whole of INDIA. But what is INDIAN politicians saying? Singing the tune of friendship and donating money to the families of victim and ignoring the matter? It doesn't matter if u r a muslim or a hindu coz the whole of INDIA is their target!! Its not for me to 'preach' whats to be done, its to be decided by liberal muslims like u what can be done and discuss it with similar souls. People have to stop chosing religion over nation!!
Muslim mobs saying that Vande mataram is against ISLAM is not gonna help. Likewise sharia'h is against the ideals of democracy and equality to all!! I pity the ones who stage agitation and protests over for even the practise of Yoga and Vedas like ayurveda and vedic mathematics etc in skools, some saying that its against ISLAM or is UnIslamic. How do u describe this attitude of muslims who act like such retards??
Today's Hindus really dont give any heed to corrupt pandits who count money more than practising their work and speak incorrect mantras. Likewise Muslims have to ignore corrupt maulvis and Imams like Bukhari who has several cases registered against him!!
Recently I watched a TV news where Ustad Amjad Ali khan was telling how in Mosques inappropriate authorities are selected who dont even sing properly during the morning prayers etc!
So Tolerance and little rational approach is all needed! Muslims really need to understand the viewpoint of all the people even if someone criticises ISLAM irrationally. They have to act peacefully in such circumstances and have to stop chosing religion over the nation.
It will take time for the religion to be more tolerant.gave them time.
Hindus/Christian religion are not preying anybody
edited:
Hindus/Christian religion are not preying anybody
edited:
Islam as a religion is good. Amazing. Actually all religions are. Its just that some people use these texts to interpret it as something else.
After all, most of the 'killing' has been done in the name of religion, even though not even one religion professes it. That's why I've given up on religion...
After all, most of the 'killing' has been done in the name of religion, even though not even one religion professes it. That's why I've given up on religion...
L
goobimama said:
I agree with you buddy, well except I haven't given up on religion. people use religion as an excuse, but what they really mean to say is politics. most religions have same basic rules... or common sense, you know killing is bad, but people do it anyway.
Frankly,when you go deep into your religion,i feel with some religion hatred starts,I found some religion(s) are following the culture been forced on to foreign lands too,even their language,dress code,laws.is it a good approach in a secular country that one sided changes will survive?I hope not
I hate the fact that in many Indian Cities,religion based colonies exists.it su*ks.for eg:Muslim colony(pet),Hindu caste based colonies and may be christians are the ones who dont have such habits,but they are a meager minority.Let this attitude change and be open,think beyond your religions,even if your belief is that your religion is the real one and others are all going to hell.
I hate the fact that in many Indian Cities,religion based colonies exists.it su*ks.for eg:Muslim colony(pet),Hindu caste based colonies and may be christians are the ones who dont have such habits,but they are a meager minority.Let this attitude change and be open,think beyond your religions,even if your belief is that your religion is the real one and others are all going to hell.
A
Well, well.
Don't judge a Car by its Driver. just like, dont judge a Religion by its Followers.
read the authentic source behind it.
if u really want to know about Islam, read the Quran. if u want to know about Hinduism, den read the Vedas.
u'll be really awed on reading these scriptures, jus give it a shot!
Don't judge a Car by its Driver. just like, dont judge a Religion by its Followers.
read the authentic source behind it.
if u really want to know about Islam, read the Quran. if u want to know about Hinduism, den read the Vedas.
u'll be really awed on reading these scriptures, jus give it a shot!
mediator said:
I was asking what I should be doing to change the image of Islam dude, not asking for more privileges for minorities. If you read my other posts on the subject, you will find that I am strictly against any reservations for minorities.
Every religion has its own black sheep. Christians have their pets, Islam has its own and we Hindus have our own, in the shape and size of VHP etc. To judge the entire religion on the deeds, rather misdeeds, of these genetically unevolved chimps, would be infinitely moronic.
But [there is always this pesky little "but" hiding somewhere] the fact that remains to be seen is, does the system give scope for self-criticism or self-correction or adaption to modern complexities of civilization ? This, in my opinion, is the litmus test for any religion.
And it is this area, unfortunately, Islam is somewhat questionable. No i am not saying the Hunduism or Christianity is epitome of magnanimity, but there is a reasonable scope for intelligent debates within these systems. I am not sure if i can say the same for Islam.
This is, probably one of the reasons why and how Islam has been hijacked by some self-claimed misguided saviours, giving Islam a bad name.
But [there is always this pesky little "but" hiding somewhere] the fact that remains to be seen is, does the system give scope for self-criticism or self-correction or adaption to modern complexities of civilization ? This, in my opinion, is the litmus test for any religion.
And it is this area, unfortunately, Islam is somewhat questionable. No i am not saying the Hunduism or Christianity is epitome of magnanimity, but there is a reasonable scope for intelligent debates within these systems. I am not sure if i can say the same for Islam.
This is, probably one of the reasons why and how Islam has been hijacked by some self-claimed misguided saviours, giving Islam a bad name.
Thats for u to ponder and decide! Why is it happening and what shud be done to prevent it and to ponder over such things u have to be an INDIAN first, u have to think from the national point of view!faraaz said:
If a Hindu leader tells Muslims what to do then obviously in light of reality, they will protest and burn his effigies. If a liberal Muslim will talk, then fatwa will be issued against him and he may have to live in exile if the circumstances deteriorate. U have already read the posts of many members here and also people in some communiites of what they dont like about MUSLIMS. See the link I gave in my first post here. U know the reality and whats happening in the world. So u think what can be done!
self criticism - agreed is the key word .... kuch bola nahi ki sadakon pe uttar aye ... at the same time man mediator bang on target
faraaz im with u that there is very little that an individual can do its like students protesting against the politicians nohing will happen we are the 1s at the loosing end ... today we have the internet which is has a huge impact on thousands of people .... get some of your friends start a blog, a website .... initiate the recognition of change - im not saying people havent changed their outlook but the the change is not known ... make it known ....
faraaz im with u that there is very little that an individual can do its like students protesting against the politicians nohing will happen we are the 1s at the loosing end ... today we have the internet which is has a huge impact on thousands of people .... get some of your friends start a blog, a website .... initiate the recognition of change - im not saying people havent changed their outlook but the the change is not known ... make it known ....
mediator said:
I have pondered and decided that these guys are up a creek without a paddle. And I also decided that I'm just going to keep my distance from those hardcore fellows and carry on with my life.
I'd just like to point out that its easy to say but difficult to do. I was asking you what you think because I am sick of being told to "make a change" etc etc, but no one says okay...here's how you make changes:
STEP 1: Go here and do this
STEP 2: After that, do this
and so on and so forth...
Until someone gives me that, I'm going to pay as much attention to them as I do to those irritating fellows who try to sell you cheap tissue paper at traffic signals...
iMav said:self criticism - agreed is the key word .... kuch bola nahi ki sadakon pe uttar aye ... at the same time man mediator bang on target
faraaz im with u that there is very little that an individual can do its like students protesting against the politicians nohing will happen we are the 1s at the loosing end ... today we have the internet which is has a huge impact on thousands of people .... get some of your friends start a blog, a website .... initiate the recognition of change - im not saying people havent changed their outlook but the the change is not known ... make it known ....
Glad you see my point. But I'll tell you what, I don't care enough about this **** to actually waste my life and my time on this stuff. Man, another few months and I'm off to Zurich for my MBA...and after that I'm going to be there for a good few years. Screw the hardcore Muslims, and screw anyone who thinks they can tell me what to do...
Are u ready to talk openly against Bukhari? or madrassas that shelter paki terrorists? Are u ready to talk against reservation of all sorts including minority reservation like muslim reservation? Can u protest against sharia'h laws? Can even discuss "all" these things with "all" ur muslims friends and other muslims that u meet in ur life?
Its not easy my friend!! If u have decided to stay off this "misery" and walk the peaceful path then learn to ignore wat media says coz u cannot do anything about it! U can go to muslim communities and tell wat really is needed or write blogs about ur thoughts! Man I feel like a "preacher" so I'll stop here. Its all upto to decide wats to be done!!
No non...never!
All religious are wonderful and aptly useless..
Being an hindu-born and turned atheist i have come to the religion of rationalism. The futility of religious fanaticism has already taken enough toll on the earth.Sometimes religious war have almost wiped out the entire humanity if not for some rationalists who preferred to keep themselves out.
Have we ever wondered why we always are stuck up with giving a clear verdict on the nature of any religion? Ya we always have to say some points are good and some are bad, this and that.
But say which is the best religion. Non...in particular.
Logic is the only religion, i say.
See somehow i refuse to accept God resides in idol with bow and arrow , or in people who bash secondary nature of women.
Concept of God ..is the most deceit full story ever weaved.
Wonder some how even if i started praying Shahrukh Khan ...he still perfoms with the exact nature to God. Yes even Shahrukhs way of answering prayer is just like GOD. 50-50 %.
Even when everything good that happens in my life is due to some special power of Mr Khan and bad are my sins ...just like GOD ...What gives ?
both Christians and Muslims are fascist entity of world
mediator said:
Yeah, you'll notice I've stopped frequenting these threads lately. And also, I don't want to speak against anyone because frankly, I don't see how it can do any good, and I'm not going to go waste my time and energy just so some randoms I don't even know feel better.
Mods, plz lock this thread, It will do no good.
@gx_saurav
Oh...ya sure & Let all apple-win flame war threads be opened?
Oh...ya sure & Let all apple-win flame war threads be opened?
^^exactly its better than commenting on 1s religious belief
gx_saurav said:
I am with Gx....religion is a very very very sentitive issue. Each and every comment should be passed very carefully. Thats it and i am out of here
Yup. Its better if this thread is locked. The debate will invariably turn to mud slinging.
LOCK the thread.
LOCK the thread.
Thread Reported and Thread Locked!
rakeshishere said:Thread Reported and Thread Locked!
Reported, yes i did. Locked...not yet