Mac Book with Windows?

Hi guys!

I am planning to exchange my Toshiba Laptop with a Mac Book and run Windows Vista on it using Boot Camp. This will enable me to use Mac and Windows on a single laptop. I really like the features of iLife. I love the software. I love macs for its ability to handle multimedia easily. I love Windows when it comes to productivity.

So, do you think it would be a good idea to buy a mac book? Will Windows Vista run efficiently on a mac book? How much does a mac book cost in India?

Does anyone use a mac book? How is it? Please share your experiences.

Please reply. Thanks!

nagarjun_424 said:
Hi guys!

I am planning to exchange my Toshiba Laptop with a Mac Book and run Windows Vista on it using Boot Camp. This will enable me to use Mac and Windows on a single laptop. I really like the features of iLife. I love the software. I love macs for its ability to handle multimedia easily. I love Windows when it comes to productivity.

So, do you think it would be a good idea to buy a mac book? Will Windows Vista run efficiently on a mac book? How much does a mac book cost in India?

Does anyone use a mac book? How is it? Please share your experiences.

Please reply. Thanks!

Aryaush has a macbook

Right now, Macbook does not support Vista using bootcamp. It's also not sure weather they will cos they are downplaying Vista all the time. However, installing Vista should be possible cos Macbook is just a PC, you better wait for Leopard if u like cos that will have Boot camp integrated. If you buy now you might have to pay for boot camp final for using it with MacOS X 10.4 Tigar

An advice that I would like to give, stick to a PC based laptop. Not only it is cheaper then a macbook, it's also better to run Windows Vista on a PC cos Apple doesn't provide support for Windows runing on Mactel, & neither does Microsoft provides support for problem releated to hardware on a Macbook.

can mac os be installed on a pc?

Not legally and officilly. There are methods though, checkout OSX86 project on google.

(posting via phone)

@gx_saurav, I do not have a MacBook. It is a MacBook Pro.

@nagarjun_424, it is nice to see someone making a decision based on logic on the digit forum. A MacBook, at present, costs Rs. 60,000 + VAT, i.e. Rs. 62,400. It may vary a bit depending on your location though.
Now, my main suggestion to you is to wait till June 11, 2007. That is the day Apple will launch the new operating system, OS X "Leopard" and all future Macs will come bundled with it.
As for Vista compatibility, I have run Vista RC1 on my notebook without any problem with the beta version of Boot Camp and with Parallels Desktop for Mac. If you were unaware, Parallels lets you run Windows and Linux right within OS X, so you can have three or more operating systems running simultaneously. It is a fantastic application and the best way to run Windows on a Mac. Installing Windows on Parallels is easier than installing it on a PC, and this is not an exaggeration.

*www.tachypic.com/image/4889.jpeg

As for why I think a MacBook is better than comparable Windows notebooks, these are the essential reasons:
1. You get to run the best operating system on the planet along with Windows. The best of both worlds.
2. The price is similar.
3. Great flaunt value.
4. Goodbye to malware.
5. Tight integration of hardware and software. Rock solid and very stable.
6. The trackpad. Yes, it is a huge point. You right click by tapping two fingers, scroll horizontally, vertically and even diagonally by dragging two fingers over the trackpad. You have to use it to believe it.
7. FireWire. It is ten times faster than USB 2.0.
8. It is very portable.
9. iSight, Apple Remote with Front Row and slot-loading optical drive.

I would advise you to visit some authorised Apple reseller near you. They will happily demo the machine for you and you can freely play around with it and get a feel of the thing. They'll also demonstrate it running Vista.

Feel free to throw any other questions you have. I was in the same dilemma as you a few months ago and I made a decision to buy a Macintosh against popular advice. I think it was the best decision I ever made in my life.

You should opt for a Macbook Pro and not a Macbook if you plan to seriously consider Vista. Why? Because Macbook features GMA950 with just 64MB shared Video Memory from total RAM. According to MacBook tech specs, you cant share more than 64MB video memory for GMA950. I don't understand why Apple has put that restriction. Intel 945GM chipset allows to allocate upto 224MB video memory from total RAM.

The two white Macbooks with Core 2 duo processors cost 61.3k and 71.2k final prices in Mumbai all taxes included. I am sure you will agree that the 61k Macbook doesn't have the best of firepower to run Vista well. 512MB total memory doesn't help either. There is no point in getting something if it won't run it well under basic load( I am talking about Vista). 1GB is always welcome on all laptops be it PC or Mac. It has in fact come to a stage of 'need'. Macbook Pro with the 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo and X1600 Graphics should cost you 106k. MBP is really the thing you should consider if you need the best of both worlds. This may not sound nice, but the real multimedia machine is MBP and not Macbook.

@aryayush: I recollect you posted that image in some other thread too. I don't know which thread it was. I have nothing against it but it is a very misleading one for the uninformed. Most of the core things it mentions are no where to be found on the basic macbook which costs 61k. I say its misleading because the basic macbook has 512MB RAM, 60GB HDD, a combo drive. So, well for me that doesn't sound all that good when I look at that pic again. RAM, HDD and DVD-writer are everything in a laptop which makes the difference between two laptops currently.

Macbooks are a nice option for beginners and to check out the best of both worlds for the first time. But when you know what OSX and its platform has on offer and run Vista too, get MBP. Also, Other PC based laptops too offer similar trackpads with horizontal and vertical scroling, double tapping on PC laptops = double click. Macbook has firewire 400 and not 800. USB 2.0 and Firewire 400 performance are similar as the bandwidth provided is identical - 50MB/s for Firewire 400 and 60MB/s theoretical for USB 2.0. Firewire 800 is the real deal to change your decision provided you need it for something.

You can always extend the memory to 2 GB if you wish to.

Apart from that, I agree with all your points apart from the one about the trackpad. Normal trackpads have two demarcated areas for horizontal and vertical scrolling and there is no way to right-click without a physical button. If you ever use an Apple trackpad, you'll realise the sheer convenience. I am not getting myself a mouse even though I need it for Photoshop, because I am in love with the trackpad.

Thats a new one for me. I don't remember the last time I used the trackpad. Without mouse for so long is really a big thing for a laptop user.

Well, yeah - as I said "You have to use it to believe it."

When I had gone to the reseller, he was going on and on about the trackpad and I was standing there thinking, "C'mon man, get over it. Who uses the trackpad anyway!" In fact, I has intended to purchase the Mighty Mouse with the laptop (as I was getting it at a steep discount) but the salesman discouraged me from doing so. Six months later, I know he did the right thing.

aryayush said:
Parallels lets you run Windows and Linux right within OS X, so you can have three or more operating systems running simultaneously. It is a fantastic application and the best way to run Windows on a Mac

How come runing an OS in Virtual Machine enviroment gives same performance as native installation Gr8 logic..Even the VT bit in Core 2 duo is not that powerful. besides...plz tell me one thing if possible a screenshot weather Vista was runing with Aero in Parallels? As far as I know, Paralles does not support GPU virtualisation right now

The price is similar

This needs to be checked

FireWire. It is ten times faster than USB 2.0.

Nope, same speed of 60 MBps

You can always extend the memory to 2 GB if you wish to.

This needs to be checked before you buy a MBP, Apple RAM is very costly compared to normal RAM for PC. It's adviced not to buy memory Upgrades from Apple due to high cost

@ nagarjun_424

Since your primary reason to buy a MBP is to run Windows Vista on it, along with MacOS X, don't forget what i informed before. It's better to use Windows Vista on a PC cos Apple doesn't provide support for Windows runing on Mactel, & neither does Microsoft provides support for problem releated to hardware on a Macbook.

If you indeed want to buy a MBP, then wait till leopard is released, atleast then you will not have to pay for bootcamp

Wow! I had no clue that there was so much to know before I pick up one! Well, 3 of my classmates have a macbook that is also running windows xp. But when I asked them for suggestions, they did not know anything as they are not big computer buffs like you all. I am a computer buff, but not when it comes to mac. I want to move out (well not move out, but try other things too) from windows and try other OSs too.

I can't relly afford a macbook pro. Not even the higher version of macbook. 61k should be fine.

But, aryayush, just a few questions. I guess you will know the answers as, you too made a switch like I am planning to.

Here are a list of applications I use most on my XP Pro laptop:
Frontpage, Limewire Pro, Blue J (for JAVA Programming), hell loads of Photoshop CS2, lots of MS Office and a few other software for coverting videos etc etc.

I guess all these applications will not work with Vista for now? So, I guess I should stick with XP until I know Vista will support all these software.

Since I use photoshop a lot, it involves loads of right clicking. How do I right click on a macbook when I am using XP without an additional mouse? Since I do not play games or will not run Vista instantly, do u think an upgrade to 1gb ram is essential? Howmuch cud it be?

Howmuch does Parallels Desktop or Boot Camp cost? What if boot camp expires? How will I use my Windows?

Sorry for so many questions. But, I guess you are the only one who would know as you have experienced the change! Please help me out!

@gx_saurav

Yes, virtualisation of GPU is not possible in the stable released versions of virtualisation software and therefore, Aero is not supported ATM. I never said it was either.
However, very early previews of VMWare's Fusion have shown 3D gaming on a virtual machine and it is coming soon. Parallels will jump in the fray too. The future is very rosy for virtualisation. PC owners, however, will be left behind because both Parallels and VMWare have refused to bring virtualisation solutions for running Mac OS X within Windows.

As for the price, I've posted the price in Kolkata and Sourabh has posted the one in Bangalore. The price is the same as Dell XPS M1210.

I was talking about FireWire 800, which is a lot faster than USB 2.0. However, I didn't realise that the MacBooks only have FireWire 400.

You can use RAM from any other company. I am using Transcend.

As for support, Apple will provide support for the hardware and Microsoft will provide (whatever) support (it can) for the operating system (if you use the legit version). And the reseller you buy your Mac from will help you out with both the hardware and software, no matter what.

Aryayush, please answer the questions from my last post! It will really help me pick a good laptop! I really need your help bro! Sourabh, thanks for the Bangalore price as, I am from Bangalore. I was actually thinking of going up to Forum and aksing for a demo and price.

Aryayush, please help? Answer my last post! Those are my major doubts.

nagarjun_424 said:
Wow! I had no clue that there was so much to know before I pick up one! Well, 3 of my classmates have a macbook that is also running windows xp. But when I asked them for suggestions, they did not know anything as they are not big computer buffs like you all. I am a computer buff, but not when it comes to mac. I want to move out (well not move out, but try other things too) from windows and try other OSs too.

I had the exact same mentality before I moved. I had used Windows for many years and had given some distros of Linux a try too. I wanted something new. At least you know a few people around who have Macs. I am still only the second person in my city to own a Mac. But that is no problem, because I've had no trouble with it so far. No hangs, crashes, viruses - any sort of problem.

nagarjun_424 said:
Here are a list of applications I use most on my XP Pro laptop:
Frontpage, Limewire Pro, Blue J (for JAVA Programming), hell loads of Photoshop CS2, lots of MS Office and a few other software for coverting videos etc etc.

You do not even need Windows XP for these and most other software. Here are the Mac equivalents of these software:
1. FrontPage - iWeb (for novice users), Nvu (advanced users) and DreamWeaver (Pro users).
2. LimeWire Pro - LimeWire Pro, Cabos, Acquisition, etc.
3. Blue J - Since I am not interested in this, I do not know of any software for this purpose. On switching to the Mac, however, you might be more interested in Cocoa and Dashboard programming. You can use XCode and Dashcode for that.
4. Photoshop CS2 - Adobe Photoshop CS2 and CS3 beta.
5. MS Office - MS Office 2004. The 2007 version is coming soon and it is better than the Windows counterpart.
6. Converting videos - Lots and lots of applications, free and paid.

There is another application for OS X called Crossover that lets you run Windows software directly on a Mac. I ran Opera for Windows using it and it worked flawlessly. Tally did not work however.

nagarjun_424 said:
Since I use photoshop a lot, it involves loads of right clicking. How do I right click on a macbook when I am using XP without an additional mouse?

You put two fingers on the trackpad and click the mouse button. You'll get used to it in a while.

nagarjun_424 said:
Since I do not play games or will not run Vista instantly, do u think an upgrade to 1gb ram is essential? Howmuch cud it be?

If you plan to run virtual machines, it essential to have even more than one gigabyte of memory because you'll be running two or more operating systems at a time. If you use Boot Camp, however, 512 MB should be fine. But because you use Photoshop a lot, I would highly recommend upgrading the memory to one gigabyte. It should set you back by about two thousand bucks. I am not too sure though.

nagarjun_424 said:
Howmuch does Parallels Desktop or Boot Camp cost? What if boot camp expires? How will I use my Windows?

Parallels Desktop for Mac costs $79.99.
Boot Camp is free and will never expire. Furthermore, it will be bundled with Leopard.

nagarjun_424 said:
Sorry for so many questions. But, I guess you are the only one who would know as you have experienced the change! Please help me out!

Please do not be hesitant! If you have any more questions, feel free to throw them at me. I would love to help you out.

Guys, I am from Mumbai formerly Bombay. Got no clue about the prices in Bangalore. Should be similar, give or take 2-3k.

I would suggest to go for the better MacBook, it makes your deal really good. I say this because in that extra 10k you get a lot of things which matter a lot in the real world and make the difference in the long run. Firstly the biggest difference, the core 2 duo processor on the higher priced macbook has 4MB cache (the real core 2 duo)as opposed to 2MB in the other, thats a difference in computing power. The 80GB hard drive, extra 512MB and the dvd writer? Sounds really good and make more sense!

After purchase boost up of 512MB DDR2 667MHz of Memory will in itself cost you 3.5k at least if all goes well and the new RAM is compatible with the one in your MacBook. Ask aryayush about his fling with Transcend memory on the MacBook Pro.

No compatibility problems to date.

Guys, I dont know how to thank u all! Aryayush, thanks for the amazing advice man! Really helped me... I only hope I can convice my father for 10k more so that I can get the better macbook!

If I have anything else, I will ask you before I make a decision! Thanks man!

Yes, virtualisation of GPU is not possible in the stable released versions of virtualisation software and therefore, Aero is not supported ATM. I never said it was either.
However, very early previews of VMWare's Fusion have shown 3D gaming on a virtual machine and it is coming soon. Parallels will jump in the fray too. The future is very rosy for virtualisation. PC owners, however, will be left behind because both Parallels and VMWare have refused to bring virtualisation solutions for running Mac OS X within Windows.

I know about fusion, & it is not capable of emulating DX10 as said in the drafts now, check their documentation. So, well...weather it can virtualize DX10 is not sure right now, so making a decision of buying a Macbook based on VMWare virtualisation in the future is not justified. Go for features which are available right now, & right now Parallels & VMWare can't run vista with aero, whats the point of MBP then? cos non Aero Vista will run fine on macbook too

arya said:
As for support, Apple will provide support for the hardware and Microsoft will provide (whatever) support (it can) for the operating system (if you use the legit version).

Nope, this is where i m going to do job now boy, MS doesn't support hardware problems (driver etc) on macbook

@ nagarjun

Do you study JAVA in college? if thats the case then make sure u get an equivalent tool for MacOS. Also get atleast 1 GB RAM if u plan to use vista natively or 2 GB if u plan to virtualize it. However, like i said above..virtualising an OS is not recomended right now. You will have to pay $79 for Parallels, while you can pay $30 for bootcamp which is a better option

by the way, i wonder why you want to replace your existing Toshiba laptop if u intend to use Windows XP on Macbook too, whats the point.

You put two fingers on the trackpad and click the mouse button. You'll get used to it in a while.

Arya, plz state weather this is supported in Windows XP/Vista too or not?

Apple provides the drivers with Boot Camp and you do not need to run to Microsoft. If there is any hardware issue while running Windows, the reseller who he buys the machine from will provide support for it. I am speaking from experience here.

For Java development, you can use BuoyBuilder. There must be other applications too, but I know of only this one. A topic on any Apple-centric forum is all you need to know more of these.

Windows XP runs absolutely fine on Parallels as long as you do not plan to game on it. If you want to do gaming, you can always restart the machine and log into Windows. Aero in Windows Vista is at present not supported with either Parallels or VMWare. But Vista runs just fine sans the Aero interface. One great thing is that you can install Windows XP via Boot Camp and then use Parallels to log into the same XP installation while running OS X simultaneously. It is amazing.

gx_saurav said:
while you can pay $30 for bootcamp which is a better option

Boot Camp is free to boot. You can download it from here right now if you wish to. And it is not the better option unless gaming is a primary requirement. And since you are buying a low-end laptop and have mentioned nothing about wanting to game a lot on it, Parallels is your best bet. In fact, Parallels combined with Boot Camp (as I explained above) is the best win-win solution.

gx_saurav said:
by the way, i wonder why you want to replace your existing Toshiba laptop if u intend to use Windows XP on Macbook too, whats the point.

Because he wants to try out another operating system and he's got common sense enough to see that it is not heavier on the pocket.

gx_saurav said:
Arya, plz state weather this is supported in Windows XP/Vista too or not?

It IS for Windows XP and Vista. On Mac OS X, you do not even need to press the button. You simply tap on the trackpad with both fingers to invoke the secondary click. While using Parallels, you can do the same thing. But in Boot Camp, you have to place both fingers on the trackpad and click the mouse button.

nagarjun_424, my first advice still stands true. Please wait for Leopard's release. If you purchase a machine at that time, you'll get Apple's latest operating system, the notebook will fully supports Windows Vista (it already supports it well), Parallels will be tightly integrated with Leopard and will most probably have updated their software to allow 3D hardware acceleration on a virtual machine. The future is only going to be better.

And you need not really worry about running Windows at all. I am sure once you've used Mac OS X for a week or so, you wouldn't want to go back.

Since your hardware is already selected, no use giving u better options. Here are a few things

1) Macbook with 64 MB GMA 950 will not run Vista Aero

2) You will not get driver support for your hardware of macbook from Apple, if there isn't any right now, you will have to wait for them to make it

3) Runing a virtual machine requirs a lot of RAM, make sure u get atleast 2 GB.

A

@nagarjun. take aryayush's advise and wait till June. Apple's Leopard is coming in June and it's widely termed as "Vista 2.0 ". I think you understand the meaning of Vista 2.0.

Logically speaking, it's designed from scratch and makes best use of current hardware resources and will be future proof. There are couple of new apps and features, tighter integration with apple ecosystem.

gx_saurav said:
You will not get driver support for your hardware of macbook from Apple, if there isn't any right now, you will have to wait for them to make it

WTF does this mean! Of course, Apple will provide support for the MacBook.
What isn't there right now and what will he have to wait for?

A

oh god. driver support for hardware of macbook? afaik, apple's hardware and software are tightly integrated. This is not Vista buddy, to have hardware software and firmware issues when released it. This is Mac OS. We need not wait for SP,2,3,4..... Mac OS is built around hardware that apple provides and the hardware that comes next is built/tweaked to work perfectly with the hardware. When they release a new hardware, they make sure that it integrates perfectly into apple ecosystem. This is the main reason for the extreme stability and rock solid nature of apple mac's.

Well, Aryayush, I went to the Apple Store yesterday evening. Bangalore prices seem to be abnormal! The 2ghz white model costs 77.5k! Can you believe that? Entry level is 67.5k! But I really fell in love with it.

It looks and functions amazingly. A nice salesman at the store was kind enough to demo the whole thing to me with patience and they also had a macbook running on xp for me to try.

Ive made up my mind. I will go for either one of the macbooks. I just have to wait a few weeks to buy it as I have to increase my budget to way over 15k! :-(

They also assure me complete support and also said they will install xp free of cost for me if I give them the installation disk.

But what ever you said about all the features was true. I guess I will be the 2nd person to make the change from normal boring xp pcs to apple mac although i will be using both simultaneously. ;-)

As I have been saying to anyone who cares to listen for a while now, it is really difficult to see a demo of a Mac and not fall in love with it. And I am glad that whatever I told you turned out to be true. After all, I've gone through this before.

Hope you can buy that Mac soon.

BTW, why don't you try purchasing it from Kolkata or New Delhi? The prices are bound to be a lot cheaper as I and Sourabh said.

@Aryayush - What are the prices of the entry level macbook and the middle model i.e. the one with the 2ghz processor in white in Kolkata and in Delhi?

Please could you tell me the exact price including tax so that I can decide where to purchase it from?

For Apple Mac fans please do not take it personally. Mac is great and good but I would like nagarjun_424 to have a few things to consider to be sure he is buying the right laptop. Unless he has big bucks, changing laptops too soon isn't possible and frustration a few months after a purchase isn't a good computing experience.

@ nagarjun_424 - I have experience with Macbook, Macbook Pro, Windows XP and I would suggest you go for Macbook Pro instead of normal Macbook. The first reason is as some have already pointed out, lack of dedicated graphics which could be a drag if you want the ultimate Vista experience. Graphics cards are the core of most new and high end games and so are they essential for effects in most new OSes. If you are the gaming and experimenting kind, you will feel the drag of not having a dedicated graphics card and you can't easily add a graphics card in a Macbook or a laptop.

If you really love Apple Mac and won't think of any compromise in this front, wait a few months, extend your budget and buy a Macbook Pro. This will ensure you have no regrets. If you can't wait and can do without Apple Mac OSX then you could stick to your current budget and go for an HP, Dell or Lenovo with nVidia GeForce Go 7XXX graphics card for that budget. You can try out Linux distros like OpenSUSE, Ubuntu etc. if you want a break from Windows. Thats my opinion, what you choose is up to you.

@Aberforth - Thanks for the advise. It makes a lot of sense. But, an entry level mac book pro costs a whopping 1lakh+! Do you really suggest I should wait and buy that instead?

Is there any way to install mac osx on a windows laptop as an alternative?

Nothing legal (even if you buy Mac OS X) and you'll have hordes of compatibility problems.

The price of the MacBook is about Rs. 62,000 including tax. I hadn't enquired for the better MacBook, but I think it would be around Rs. 70,000. Visit this page, select your city and see the list of resellers. Call up a few of them and compare the prices. I bought mine from RSG Infotech, New Delhi. They gave me a really good deal. I am PMing you the number of a representative of their store.

And what is the urgency to buy the notebook now?

If you are not particularly interested in gaming, I do not think you have any need to think about the MacBook Pro. MacBooks come with "Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory" which is sufficient enough to support Vista's Aero interface, if I am not wrong. I might be, however.

You might also consider buying the previous generation MacBook Pros. The specs are all the same as of the current generation MacBook Pros but they come with Core Duo processors instead of Core 2 Duos. The prices are almost half.

I would still very strongly recommend you to wait till June. Leopard will be worth it.

nagarjun_424 said:
@Aberforth - Thanks for the advise. It makes a lot of sense. But, an entry level mac book pro costs a whopping 1lakh+! Do you really suggest I should wait and buy that instead?

If you really, really want a Mac, can wait and you are sure you can afford a Macbook pro later then you can do that. I could do without a Mac so I chose Hp instead for better gaming experience, more power and it was way within my budget of 65K compared to a Macbook (features) or Macbook Pro (price).

Your need is different so you will have to look around, talk with people who have good experience in both and check out the models to arrive at a final decision. Macbooks (not Pro) are not the kind you want to go for, considering you are serious about computers and technology, are a guy which means most likely you are a gamer or at least a gaming enthusiast.

If otherwise, you want a laptop now, want cheaper replacement parts (accidents do happen and Apple spares cost a bomb) go for PC laptops from Dell, HP or Lenovo, you could get a decent and powerful one in your budget.

nagarjun_424 said:
Is there any way to install mac osx on a windows laptop as an alternative?

There are some methods but I have never tried it. You could look around in the Tutorial section of these forums and run a Google search to know more about it. I am not sure about the legal stance though.. I like Mac but I never missed it and I use Novell's OpenSUSE 10.2 (Linux) which I find a good break from the monotony of Windows and a very good, easy to use and stable OS.

I am not an avid gamer but I like one game (MS Flight Simluator 2004) and I found quite a drag and slowdown in my girlfriend's Macbook and this is one thing I couldn't compromise, whatever I get, I want 100%. FS 2004 is peanuts compared to some modern games like Doom, GTA San Andreas, Half Life 2 so it didn't make sense for me to choose Macbook. Your needs, as I said are different so you need different things to consider.

aryayush said:
You might also consider buying the previous generation MacBook Pros. The specs are all the same as of the current generation MacBook Pros but they come with Core Duo processors instead of Core 2 Duos. The prices are almost half.

This could be one option you might want to explore if it comes in your budget. Take your time, look around for a month all the options and make sure you made the best decision. Touch and feel the laptops before you buy them, pictures can convey a thousand words but not the experience.

The Macbook runs Windows Vista in all its glory (Aero included). It has been tried and tested and it works flawlessly.

But you better had wait a while. The upgrades to the Macbooks are 'rumoured' to be arriving in May, and they will have the X3000 graphics onboard, a DirectX 10 card is it?

X3000 graphics chip on the Mobile 965 Express chipset (GM) may or may not be dx10 compatible. No information is available as such.

I was just wondering, if nagarjun already has a laptop and doesn't need it for mobility - mac mini could make a good choice.

goobimama said:
The Macbook runs Windows Vista in all its glory (Aero included). It has been tried and tested and it works flawlessly.

There you go, confirmation from a person who has actually tried it.

goobimama said:
But you better had wait a while. The upgrades to the Macbooks are 'rumoured' to be arriving in May, and they will have the X3000 graphics onboard, a DirectX 10 card is it?

You might want to take this with a grain of salt though. Apple rumours are seldom true and it really makes no sense for Apple to release a new line of MacBooks just a month ahead of WWDC with Tiger installed.

Sourabh said:
I was just wondering, if nagarjun already has a laptop and doesn't need it for mobility - mac mini could make a good choice.

Yeah, and it will be something totally different from whatever you and your friends have seen till date. You can carry your entire CPU around with you. And at just Rs. 35,000, it is damn cheap.
Have a look here.

But ever since Apple has gone intel, the predictions have been more or less quite accurate. The move to 965 chipset is quite inevitable don't you think?

So many confusions yet hardly any mac user is clerifying it

arya said:
WTF does this mean! Of course, Apple will provide support for the MacBook.
What isn't there right now and what will he have to wait for?

If you are using Windows XP on Macbook & have problem with your printer or some other hardware, who will you call for tech support? Apple...well, they don't provide support for Windows releated problems. Microsoft Tech support, well they don't support hardware driver or problems on Macbook due to it's locked nature

oh god. driver support for hardware of macbook? afaik, apple's hardware and software are tightly integrated. This is not Vista buddy, to have hardware software and firmware issues when released it. This is Mac OS. We need not wait for SP,2,3,4..... Mac OS is built around hardware that apple provides and the hardware that comes next is built/tweaked to work perfectly with the hardware. When they release a new hardware, they make sure that it integrates perfectly into apple ecosystem. This is the main reason for the extreme stability and rock solid nature of apple mac's.

Ofcourse it is good, for MacOS X only & it's own drivers

nagarjun_424 said:
@Aberforth - Thanks for the advise. It makes a lot of sense. But, an entry level mac book pro costs a whopping 1lakh+! Do you really suggest I should wait and buy that instead?

Is there any way to install mac osx on a windows laptop as an alternative?

Macs have always been over priced. If you go for Macbook with GMA 950 then forget about runing Vista with aero, without aero....there is no use buying a new Laptop for runing Vista, other then if u r bleeding money.

Abeforth is correct, it makes a lot of sence to stick to your computer right now or buy one from HP or Dell. The HP DV6137TX is rock solid C2D Laptop with Geforce go 7400 graphics card.

If you however want to go with Mac then go for Macbook pro, pay More then Rs 1 lakh for a Macbook pro with Radeon X1600 & run Vista on it along with MacOS

There are a few hacks actully,check out OSX86 project via google. It is not legal though. I have myself used MacOS X 10.4.4 on a PC runing Pentium 4 3.06 GHz, Geforce FX 5900XT & 1 GB RAM, do remember that it will wipe out your harddisk compleately as it does not recognise Windows partitions

It makes a lot of sense. But, an entry level mac book pro costs a whopping 1lakh+! Do you really suggest I should wait and buy that instead

Don't know about him, but atleast I won't suggest it, cos u intend to run Vista on it. Oh comon.....solid Vista ultimate certified laptops are available for 55K max, then why r u paying nearly 100% more for MBP. Atleast I don't find it justified cos you already have a laptop

There you go, confirmation from a person who has actually tried it.

Gobbimama, have u tried it yourself? or just seen on the net? Do remember like i said above, Macbook cannot run Vista with aero (due to 64 MB Shared RAM) but MBP can run vista due to Radeon X1600, however...be ready to pay lots of money for it for performance that u can get in other PC laptops for much cheaper price.

Move to 965 chipset is obvious yaar

I don't personally own a Macbook, but my apple dealer has installed it on one of the demo machines. I'm not sure which macbook model, but they all have GMA950 isn't it? Aero runs smoothly including the useless Flip3D.

A point to mention is that they had some trouble installing it, as in the default drivers did not work. Some kind of different drivers are needed, I can ask them and find out if you want. It was the RTM version...
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Edit: May have been the RC2 release, I'm not sure.

Yes, all of them have GMA 950 and it works just fine. The must have had trouble with the audio. It is easy to fix.

gx_saurav said:
If you are using Windows XP on Macbook & have problem with your printer or some other hardware, who will you call for tech support? Apple...well, they don't provide support for Windows releated problems. Microsoft Tech support, well they don't support hardware driver or problems on Macbook due to it's locked nature

Microsoft will provide support for it if any of your peripherals do not work irrespective of the machine's hardware. The company the peripheral is from will also provide support. It goes without saying that any trouble with Mac OS X will be supported by Apple.
If you have any trouble running Windows, which you won't because Apple themselves provide the drivers, the reseller you bought the machine from will help you out. As nagarjun_424 has already inquired, and as I had already pointed out before, they will even install Windows properly for you.

gx_saurav said:
Macs have always been over priced.

And Ashish Nehra is a great batsman.

aryayush said:
Yes, all of them have GMA 950 and it works just fine. The must have had trouble with the audio. It is easy to fix.

As stated by sourabh, macbook are locked to only 64 MB graphics memory. Now the requirment for aero is 128 MB DirectX 9b based graphics card atleast, so Macbook will not run aero, without using some firmware hack

It's proved many times, & just proved above how much Macs cost, a similarly configured PC laptop will cost maximum 75k while MBP costs Rs 1 lakh +

Here is official proof:

"Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950" is "Ready for Microsoft Windows Vista".

I hope, though I know it is practically useless, that you think (or at least visit Google) before posting in future.
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It runs Windows Vista whether you like it or not - not that it is one of the notebook's best traits.

Forget about the requirements. It works doesn't it? No firmware hacks required...

On the other hand, I do believe that Apple's hardware is a bit expensive, but not as expensive as it used to be. Maybe a 10k premium (The cheapest Core 2Duo Dell machine is 53k or so, that too the 1.66 Ghz proccy, 533Mhz RAM). While the Macbook starts at 62k for a Core 2 Duo 1.83Ghz.

aryayush said:
Here is official proof:

"Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950" is "Ready for Microsoft Windows Vista".

I hope, though I know it is practically useless, that you think (or at least visit Google) before posting in future.

You are right about GMA 950 running Windows Vista with Aero interface but you did not read gx_saurav and Sourabh's post properly. GMA 950 can dynamically use upto 224MB of RAM as "Video RAM" but as Sourabh already mentioned (I have no idea about it), Apple has somehow locked the chipset to use 64MB as maximum video RAM. This will not fulfill the minimum requirement for using Vista and will definitely give a terrible experience until some BIOS/firmware modification is done so that the Video RAM is increased till 128MB or more.

Well, Im not that much of a PC Gamer. I use my console most of the time. I only play CS and Flight Simulator on my PC. Well, Im not actually in a hurry. Thats why I've been looking around for options for quiet sometime.

@Sourabh - I cannot go for the Mac Mini as it is definitely not an alternative to my laptop. My purpose is indeed mobility. I carry my laptop to school everyday. We do not use notebooks. Hence, I cannot use the Mac Mini although its an excellent device.

But, I cannot wait until leopard too. Thats too far away. I asked the dealer and he said it will release in India between june and august. That is too far. I need to buy one at least within a month. I dont mind paying for the upgrade to leopard later on.

@Aryayush - That is an amazing price. That amounts to almost 5.5k difference between the 2 cities! Where do you think I can pick up an older version of Macbook pro as you indicated. I really dont care between core 2 duo or core duo. Howmuch do you think it would be?

@goobimama, No, there is no 10K premium. You are conceding to a false allegation and you do not really need to do so just because these guys keep hammering the point.
Only HP makes a bit cheaper computers, but then they are cheaper than most companies. Dell makes systems that are equally priced to Apple's, if not more. And Sony makes more expensive computers than Apple does.
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nagarjun_424 said:
That is an amazing price. That amounts to almost 5.5k difference between the 2 cities! Where do you think I can pick up an older version of Macbook pro as you indicated. I really dont care between core 2 duo or core duo. Howmuch do you think it would be?

The cheapest one, AFAIK, is about eighty thousand bucks. Most Apple resellers will sell you older models happily.
I know about RSG Infotech in New Delhi and Amaze in Kolkata. I can give you their number too, if you want.

I had considered going for a macbook but then my current lappy was too sweet a deal to resist, Compaq Presario v3149AU, 52k including carry case and its a hell lot better than the 62k macbook.

p.s. Check this out
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

p.s. I am making this post from my older lappy, with a Celeron m 1.5 ghz, 256 MB RAM and a GMA 900 while running firefox2 on Suse 10.2 The best part is, it runs xgl without framing or thrashing (including the rotating cube thingy for switching between multiple desktops), eat this Vista