microsoft and IE · DIGIT-ARC

well guys what do u think of the latest rule that microsoft should not add internet explorer to its installation package(os). :-(

my view
i think this rule was not right as microsoft has also given the right to users to uninstall it an install new browsers.

eh... source pls...

Charan said:
eh... source pls...

well, this was in all newspapers

^^ well I did find just one source.. I dont get time to read news paper

.

I don't read newspaper these days.. anyway.. watch all the 5 parts....

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuCDyp-0GG4

Soon there will be news that "Microsoft should not provide WMP with windows".
This is stupid.

and no option to shut it down...

cyber said:
my view
i think this rule was not right as microsoft has also given the right to users to uninstall it an install new browsers.

Is that so? In that case they should get the priviledge of bundling IE. After all Apple also bundle Safari and Linux distros bundle Firefox/Konqueror/Epiphany.

Baffling.

It's not as if Windows doesn't allow a user to install any other browser. Suppose the next version of Windows doesn't have an inbuilt browser. So WTF is a user gonna do if he wants to go online as soon as he installs a fresh copy of the OS? Install IE from the setup disk? Or go and download Firefox? Oops, he can't download Firefox coz there's no browser bundled this time. I suppose next they'll tell MS to ship the setup package for the latest version of FF too.

Choices. We just love them.

I dont like this rule.

ravi_9793 said:
Soon there will be news that "Microsoft should not provide WMP with windows".
This is stupid.

In European Union , microsoft cannot bundle WMP..

Windows XP Edition N

In March 2004, the European Commission fined Microsoft €497 million (£395 million or US$784 million) and ordered the company to provide a version of Windows without Windows Media Player. The Commission concluded that Microsoft "broke European Union competition law by leveraging its near monopoly in the market for PC operating systems onto the markets for work group server operating systems and for media players". After unsuccessful appeals in 2004 and 2005, Microsoft reached an agreement with the Commission where it would release a court-compliant version, Windows XP Edition N. This version does not include the company's Windows Media Player but instead encourages users to pick and download their own media player. Microsoft wanted to call this version Reduced Media Edition, but EU regulators objected and suggested the Edition N name, with the N signifying "not with Media Player"[citation needed] for both Home and Professional editions of Windows XP. Because it is sold at the same price as the version with Windows Media Player included, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo and Fujitsu Siemens have chosen not to stock the product. However, Dell did offer the operating system for a short time. Consumer interest has been low, with roughly 1,500 units shipped to OEMs, and no reported sales to consumers.[5][6][7][8]

The N editions of Windows XP also do not include Windows Movie Maker, but Microsoft has made this available as a separate download

Source

This shows, how the whole world is biased. When, one company is allowed to bundle a whole Office package and a world of softwares packages, games, n number of media players. with its OS and another can make exclusivity with its media players and software. These things are beyond the scope of understanding. It again proves the point that people earns from Microsoft either by loving it or by hating it.

The fact is that EC got the taste of money from MSFT. Now they want more.

chooza said:
This shows, how the whole world is biased. When, one company is allowed to bundle a whole Office package and a world of softwares packages, games, n number of media players. with its OS and another can make exclusivity with its media players and software. These things are beyond the scope of understanding. It again proves the point that people earns from Microsoft either by loving it or by hating it.

if you mean linux distro's, they actually bundle third party tools with their packs, which is why they are not booked.

Anyways, you know how those idiots at EU are like. Let them install windows without browser and then run to magazine stands to find magazine with free dvd (with browser softwares in it). Chicken brained zombies.

desiibond said:
if you mean linux distro's, they actually bundle third party tools with their packs, which is why they are not booked.

Anyways, you know how those idiots at EU are like. Let them install windows without browser and then run to magazine stands to find magazine with free dvd (with browser softwares in it). Chicken brained zombies.

And most of the DVD's autorun a Browser Interface. Even Digits' Interface is dependent on IE. The newbies wont be able to figure out that they have to browse the CD.

Although it is a seriously wrong decision, the frontend can indeed be removed.

The trident rendering engine is an integral part of the Operating System'S UI, just like Gecko is of GNome,Webkit of Mac OS & KHTML of KDE. It cannot be removed at all as the OS needs a HTML engine to work even if it doesn't have a browser.

EU wants complete removal of IE Engine from Windows, if Microsoft does that then Windows's UI & functionality will seize to exist the way we see it today. However, if MS is indeed forced to do it somehow then Apple should be forced to remove Webkit & KDE remove KHTML etc too, after all they are also working on the the same concept of giving a HTML engine by default & then installng what ever browser U want seperately.

Lingeeks & Macboys say that they can easily remove Safari & Firefox from there Linux/Mac OS. Well, try removing the software & then every library/dll/bin which belongs to the HTML engine & let me know if the OS runs. If it does runs then I agree, Trident should be removed from Windows internals.

There is one solution though. Let the Trident Engine stay where it is but after installation or first boot of a retail package, give a link in Welcome Center of Windows 7 to select the browser you want. This can work without needing a brower preinstalled but just the browser engine.

gxsaurav said:
Lingeeks & Macboys say that they can easily remove Safari & Firefox from there Linux/Mac OS. Well, try removing the software & then every library/dll/bin which belongs to the HTML engine & let me know if the OS runs. If it does runs then I agree, Trident should be removed from Windows internals.

All Linux distros work pretty fine without FireFox or any other web browser and one can easily uninstall browser without affecting OS. Two of my Debian servers don't have any Web Browser. Base packages of Debian NetInstall don't have any browser by default and OS works fine. I have installed GUI in one of my server too and again, I didn't install any Web Browser.

this was actually done(removing ie)because opera had filed a complaint.

source:newspaper and *www.engadget.com/2007/12/13/opera-files-eu-antitrust-suit-against-microsoft-for-bundling-ie/

dude. you didn't get the question. the question is not removing only the browser. It is about removing everything related to HTML engine. That, my friend, you should never do!!!

If MS removed IE completely from euro edition of windows, the way to get a browser is

1) connect to internet
2) start windows update
3) install IE browser
4) download other browser software from net
5) install preferred browser
6) uninstall IE

Instead, just keep IE there in windows. Let it sleep in one corner. use it once to download a browser you want and then put it to sleep for ever.

Don't understand why those "monkey-brains-in-chicken-heads" can't think straight.

cyber said:
this was actually done(removing ie)because opera had filed a complaint.

source:newspaper and *www.engadget.com/2007/12/13/opera-files-eu-antitrust-suit-against-microsoft-for-bundling-ie/

What opera says is that MS have to either remove IE or provide second browser. Are they digging their own grave?? If MS, by any chance, distributes Chrome or any browser other than Opera, that would spell trouble coz their market share will fall much lower. And they will follow Netscape to ....

PS: MS can play safe if they bundle safari with windows. Who the heck will use Safari

Personally I feel MS should be allowed to bundle IE, but IE should be made a standards compliant browser totally, just like Opera 10 Alpha (it gave 100/100 in Acid3 test :))

.

ghost at rest said:
All Linux distros work pretty fine without FireFox or any other web browser and one can easily uninstall browser without affecting OS. Two of my Debian servers don't have any Web Browser. Base packages of Debian NetInstall don't have any browser by default and OS works fine. I have installed GUI in one of my server too and again, I didn't install any Web Browser.

For the love of god, having a Browser is not equal to having a HTML rendering engine in the OS.

You can easily uninstall Internet Explorer in Windows which will remove its file association, registry etc etc but the trident engine will remain there which the OS needs to work. When u removed web browser from your Linux you just removed the browser frontend but the HTML engine used by the OS is still there else you wouldn't be seeing icons in a folder.

This is why I wrote this...

try removing the software & then every library/dll/bin which belongs to the HTML engine & let me know if the OS runs.

Plz read before you post.

If you know the internals of an OS work then you will know that using an underlying HTML engine to display the UI is much easier then not using one. It is indeed possible to make an OS with no HTML engine at all, but having an HTML engine inbuilt makes it really easy for the devs to work on the OS. If today EU forces MS to remove the IE Engine from Windows, then it will take 2 more years easily to come up with Windows 7 without any HTML engine in it.

Why isn't EU suing Apple & Linux distributions for bundling a browser? Now don't give me an excuse saying "mac isn't a monopoly & Linux is free". Too hell with it, it is an OS which comes with a browser pre-installed on which user can install any other browser if they like just like Windows 7. Microsoft should now sue Apple, Ubuntu & other distributions cos they don't give the customar a choice during installation to use Internet Explorer. Why M I not given a choice upon first boot of Ubuntu to chose a browser after which I can decide whether I want to use Firefox or Konqurer.

Opera is just being a bunch of cry babies. Instead of taking there awesome rendering engine & giving extensions support like firefox has they are suing others. Microsoft is making IE 8 standard complient like everyone wanted. IE 8 software runs really fast on Windows 7 & the engine is better then before. Opera is sad cos they are being beaten by Firefox cos no one is using Opera much. What they don't realize that Firefox is what it is today just due to extensions which IE has supported from a long time & is extending with IE 7 with .net based add ons support.

As much as I love Opera Mini & Opera Mobile on my Mobile phone, I dislike Opera on a Computer. Opera is scared cos

1) Nobody is using it much on a Computer due to IE on WIndows, Safari on Mac/Windows & Firefox on all major OS.

2) There days in the mobile browser area are numbered. Webkit is eating its market share. Nokia is using free webkit instead of paying for Opera Mobile (paid). iPhone & Android are already using Webkit. Only on Windows Mobile everyone likes to use Opera instead of IE6 Mobile which MS is also updating to be like IE 8 in Windows Mobile 7. No one is going to ask about Opera now...

Opera has one edge that they are available for all the major OS out there & paltforms. Instead of suing others, they should simply add Extension support to Opera for Desktop, & release Opera mobile for all the OS out there like Symbian S60 3rd edition & Android.

@Desiibond

MS can remove IE "front end" from Windows easily. See, Opera isn't completely wrong either. People already have a browser in OS named IE so they continue to use it instead of downloading something else. What MS can do is to keep the Trident engine in Windows as it is & after the first boot up they should give a link in Welcome center of Windows Vista\7 "Select your browser or continue to use Internet Explorer" just like after installing IE 8 beta they ask "continue to use existing search provider or select your own".

This way, they don't even need a browser to download. Welcome center can connect to Microsoft server which will send the data back showing some browsers such as Firefox & Opera. Once the user clicks, the link will connect to Microsoft server, which will then redirect to the manufacturer's website & download the installer & install it.

Giving the user a choice to use a different browser after a fresh windows installation is indeed possible now using Welcome Center in Windows 7 as Windows 7 gives a link to download Windows Live Suite too.

Or....Microsoft should buy Opera & integrate the engine of Opera Browser in Internet Explorer 9. Best of both worlds

yes. Opera may be right. But, why is FF's market share rising?? It's not as closed as opera and safari. Maybe, it's time for Opera to think like Mozilla Foundation instead of thinking like SCO.

If MS removes IE browser from windows, it will be of no use for Opera. People will either download IE or FF. That means that FF's share will increase and Opera will still be having under 1% market share.

yep. MS can give a choice to use a different browser (like the way the give option to use default search engine in IE).

desiibond said:
yes. Opera may be right. But, why is FF's market share rising?? It's not as closed as opera and safari. Maybe, it's time for Opera to think like Mozilla Foundation instead of thinking like SCO.

True. Firefox is Open Source, standard complaint & it doesn't come bundled with Windows due to which people use it only so why is the market share of Firefox increasing

. However, Opera can now sue Linux distributions saying "People use Firefox cos it comes bundled with all linux distro by default"

Gigacore said:
and no option to shut it down...

A

I have no problem with Microsoft having Internet Explorer installed with Windows but I really have a problem about the following terms
1) Microsoft makes Live Search the default Search engine (it should have prompted the user)
2) Does not follow web standards
3) Does not give an option to user to uninstall it from windows.