Need help with Cooling related queries

For all the queries consider the following configuration:

1) CPU Cooler
i) Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO enough for mild(if at all) OCing?
ii) The above mentioned cooler comes with one fan which can either be attached to the left side or the right of the cooler as follows:

Left side:
*i45.tinypic.com/2ev439y.png

Right side:
*i49.tinypic.com/2enryvp.png

So which side do i attach it to? Which direction should the fan pass air in? Left to right or right to left?

2) System Fans
Info:
i) Carbide 400R comes with 3 fans by default. 2x Front 120mm and 1x Rear 120m
ii) Provisions are made to accommodate 2x Side 120/140mm, 2x Top 120/140mm and 1x Bottom 120/140mm as well excluding the ones specified in the post above.

Questions:
i) How many additional fans should I install in the case for decent ventilation?
ii) 120mm or 140mm?
iii) Let's say I install 2 fans: 1x top and 1x side. There's still 1x fan space each on the side ,top and the bottom.. Should I cover that up to reduce dust intake?
iv) What I could come up with was this :
1x Noctua NF-P12 each on the side and the top. This fan is like 1.1k each. So should I buy cheap 500 Rs fans X 4 or these Noctua fans X 2?

Objectives:
Let's say there are three categories of prices viz. cheap, medium and expensive. I'm looking at the medium category but if the differences between performance would be considerable I can go a bit higher. Basically I want to balance the price and performance..

If you place the fan to the right side of the cooler, make sure that there is no fan straight above the cooler, i.e. The front top fan slot. Don't cover it. The fan will get cool air from the slot.
If you place it to the left, you can cover the fan slot. In this way the fan takes away hot air from the heatsink. That is, it will create a negative air pressure with the help of the rear exhaust fan. If you add top exhaust, it will be even better.
Now for the top exhaust, it is always good to get a high performance exhaust fan which can move high amnt of air.
Now if you want to save some bucks, i would say, use one of the front fans and use it as the side panel fan. Coz the front fan intake fans don't pull that much air anyway. Or else get a cheap, silent (low rpm) and non-led fan. A high performance side panel fan is only needed when you are going for multi gpu setups. Also, cover the empty side panel slot to prevent dust clogging.
You don't need more than 5 fans in any kind of case.
Hope my post helped you

saikiasunny said:
If you place the fan to the right side of the cooler, make sure that there is no fan straight above the cooler, i.e. The front top fan slot. Don't cover it. The fan will get cool air from the slot.
If you place it to the left, you can cover the fan slot. In this way the fan takes away hot air from the heatsink. That is, it will create a negative air pressure with the help of the rear exhaust fan. If you add top exhaust, it will be even better.
Now for the top exhaust, it is always good to get a high performance exhaust fan which can move high amnt of air.
Now if you want to save some bucks, i would say, use one of the front fans and use it as the side panel fan. Coz the front fan intake fans don't pull that much air anyway. Or else get a cheap, silent (low rpm) and non-led fan. A high performance side panel fan is only needed when you are going for multi gpu setups. Also, cover the empty side panel slot to prevent dust clogging.
You don't need more than 5 fans in any kind of case.
Hope my post helped you

You could have been a lil more clearer but I guess u helped a lot. Let me show you what I understood. Please comment on it.

Is this the best setup?
*i.imgur.com/JHTQF.png

Red blocks are fans.
Blue arrows show the direction of air flow caused by the fans.
The fan slots with a Black Cross mean they're unused and covered.

Tell me if this can be improved any further(Even small ones). Thanks!

Also I really need to learn something better than paint. Lol.

Yes thats what i meant :-D

. Thats a good fan setup. For even better cooling, make use of the 400r's cable management features. You should use the lower side panel slot. And cover the upper slot.

@OP
First you have decide which air pressure system to opt ?
1] Positive = Intake more air in than exhaust. (Less dust into the system)
2] Negative = Exhaust more air than intake. (Quick cooling than Positive System, but dust accumulate more quickly too)

Air Pressure System will be affected by -
1] Number of Fans
2] Size of Fans
3] Speed/RPM of Fans
4] Ventilation spots i.e. Top Fan Grill, PCI Slot's Grill etc.

So, choosing the fans is very important aspect. You have to choose right fan for right position as per air pressure system.

If you want Positive Air Pressure System -

Intakes | Front | 120mm X 2
| Side | 120mm X 1
Exhaust | Rear | 120mm X 1
| Top Rear | 140mm X 1

1] You have to buy one 120mm for side panel and one 140mm for Top Rear Exhaust.
2] Block one of side intake mesh and bottom intake mesh for better Front to Back airflow.
3] Install fan filters on all Intake Fans.

If you want Negative Air Pressure System -

Intakes | Front | 120mm X 1
| Side | 120mm X 1
Exhaust | Rear | 120mm X 1
| Top Rear | 140mm X 1

1] You have to buy only one 140mm for Top Rear Exhaust. You can uninstall one of front intake fan and install it as side intake.
2] Install fan filters on all Intake Fans.

Install CM 212 EVO to the right side of the heat sink, so hot air can exhaust through rear 120mm fan.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For more info read this -
Optimum Case Fan Set-up
Best Case Fan Setup for Cooling

saikiasunny said:
Yes thats what i meant . Thats a good fan setup. For even better cooling, make use of the 400r's cable management features. You should use the lower side panel slot. And cover the upper slot.

Aah okay. Thanks!

pcforumguy said:
@OP
First you have decide which air pressure system to opt ?
1] Positive = Intake more air in than exhaust. (Less dust into the system)
2] Negative = Exhaust more air than intake. (Quick cooling than Positive System, but dust accumulate more quickly too)

Install CM 212 EVO to the right side of the heat sink, so hot air can exhaust through rear 120mm fan.

Sorry to question you but have you mistakenly mixed up two things? How can more intake mean less dust than more exhaust?

Also thanks for the links. Will go through them and get back to you

sharang.d said:
Sorry to question you but have you mistakenly mixed up two things? How can more intake mean less dust than more exhaust?

What is positive air pressure?

^ THanks.
I'm gonnna read it and get back to you!

Oaky I'm confused now.

Why does SilverStone Technology Co., Ltd. say this ----->

*www.silverstonetek.com/images/tech/WB08-0088/Tech-Talk-5.swf

Aren't we supposed to use top fan/s as exhaust as well?

As far as I understand - they have installed top fan as intake - B'cause they are assuming, that the case has only ONE TOP FAN; either that is for intake or exhaust. And as Positive Air Pressure System implied, you have to intake more air than exhaust.

But we don't have to do that; nowadays, almost all Branded cabinets come with two or more top fan ventilation mesh. So, install 120/140mm fan at rear top position as exhaust and leave front top mesh as passive intake; whenever CPU heatsink require more air, it can suck it through here.

Umn.. well okay I guess. I still have to go through all of your links..

That pic in post #3 is exactly what I have in my Tempest Evo. Only diff is, two exhaust on top. CPU cooler fan is on the left as it was obstructing RAM slots in my case. Don't think it is making much difference overall.

CM Hyper 212 Evo is enough for high OC as well. I've OCed i5-2500k till 4.5 Ghz and ran for a few days. Temps were under 70. Good enough.

ico said:
That pic in post #3 is exactly what I have in my Tempest Evo. Only diff is, two exhaust on top. CPU cooler fan is on the left as it was obstructing RAM slots in my case. Don't think it is making much difference overall.

CM Hyper 212 Evo is enough for high OC as well. I've OCed i5-2500k till 4.5 Ghz and ran for a few days. Temps were under 70. Good enough.

Thanks for replying.
I kinda figured I should just buy the fans and test the positions later myself

Can you suggest me any fans? I only know the Noctua Nf-P12. LED is not really a requirement.
Also should I get 2 top exhausts or one? How much would the difference be?

If there are good fans for like 500 bucks instead of the 1k Noctua ones should i buy 4x of those or 2x of Noctua?

Also is there gonna be any real difference If i apply a different Thermal paste?
I would like to use the one that comes with the CPU Cooler since 500 bucks just for a paste dusn look too logical to me

the noctua fan has only around ~55 CFM but the bearing and the warranty period is a lot better.

CM 500 bucks 120mm 2K RPM 90CFM fans are better to move air but they use sleeve bearing and 1 year warranty which is absolutely fine considering the price - so you should get 4x CM fans for better airflow IMO.

The difference between a 5 fan setup and a 7 fan setup is 4 c at max, which is IMO not worth of the extra bucks. It will also lead to more dust and noise. So choose wisely

.
If you want high performance and airflow fans get these -
Cooler Master Excalibur Cooler | Cooler | Flipkart.com
use one as a top exhaust and the other as side intake.

topgear said:
the noctua fan has only around ~55 CFM but the bearing and the warranty period is a lot better.

CM 500 bucks 120mm 2K RPM 90CFM fans are better to move air but they use sleeve bearing and 1 year warranty which is absolutely fine considering the price - so you should get 4x CM fans for better airflow IMO.

1) What's bearing?
2) What's sleeve bearing?
3) Where to claim warranty for Noctua in India?

saikiasunny said:
The difference between a 5 fan setup and a 7 fan setup is 4 c at max, which is IMO not worth of the extra bucks. It will also lead to more dust and noise. So choose wisely .
If you want high performance and airflow fans get these -
Cooler Master Excalibur Cooler | Cooler | Flipkart.com
use one as a top exhaust and the other as side intake.

Yes I figured about the dust part. These fans look good. Can they be connected into the motherboard directly?

I think yes, they can be connected to the mobo.

Choose the Pressure method first.
Do you want it to be +ve or -ve.

+ve pressure has the advantage of gathering less dust inside the case, tough dust will affect.

-ve pressure gives better cooling but will require frequent cleaning of system.

If you are going for -ve pressure, place the cpu cooler on left to sync the flow with the rear exhaust.

Do bit of experimentation. See the layout of your parts. by that you will get the best cooling.

Just don't put too many fans, you just have to keep the air flowing, too many fans can lead to turbulence in air flow and give -ve results.

^I will go for negative pressure I think. Less dust will give me longevity..

Also I don't think there will be a huge difference between +ve n -ve pressure setup so I'll prefer to keep dust out instead.

Suggestions now please

The pic no. 3 will be the best. And use cm fans. Simple as that

saikiasunny said:
use cm fans. Simple as that

Which ones?

The excalibur ones!

OH yeah! sorry forgot you were the same guy..

I think you should go with Positive Air Pressure setup -

*i45.tinypic.com/qxosxf.jpg

Corsair 400R come with front 120mm X 2 and rear 120mm X 1. So, you need to buy one 140mm for top rear exhaust and one 120mm for side intake.
For 120mm fan - Cooler Master XtraFlo
I can't find any 140mm fan on flipkart; do some search on other sites.

^Thanks for the neat and clean diagram(unlike mine

).
I think I'll try both positive and negative and see which works better for me ^_^
Also can the LED light on the fan be turned off and on? I'll only go for a LED one if the light can be turned off. Really wouldn't like a fan whose LED cannot be turned off. Quite bothersome for me.

So for now the only question is which fans I should buy.
I got 3 contenders so far:
1) Noctua NF-P12
2) Cooler Master Excalibur
3) Cooler Master XtraFlo
Which do I choose?

sharang.d said:
1] I think I'll try both positive and negative and see which works better for me ^_^
2] Also can the LED light on the fan be turned off and on? I'll only go for a LED one if the light can be turned off.
3] So for now the only question is which fans I should buy.
I got 3 contenders so far:
1) Noctua NF-P12
2) Cooler Master Excalibur
3) Cooler Master XtraFlo
Which do I choose?

1] That's the best solution. :wink:

2] No. CM Xtraflo's LED can't be turn off.
3] If money is no issue and you don't want LED (?) then go for Noctua NF-P12. It has few advantages over other two - 6 yrs. warranty, low power consumption and almost quite.

I don't think you can control the leds except the front 2 fans. Btw if you want a 140mm fan you can checkout the CM essentials 140mm led fan.
For the fan suggestions, get fans which can be directly connected to the mobo.
For eg. get the xtraflo for side intake and excalibur for the top exhaust. Go for the excalibur if you want extreme performance and don't care for much noise

@ OP - the distributor of Noctua products is theitwares - for warranty claims of noctua products you should contact there.

TheITwares Ecommerce

For now I've decided on
1) Noctua NF-P14 FLX (140mm) X 1 [Top Exhaust] - INR 1,268 on flipkart
2) Noctua NF-P12 (120mm) X 1 [Side Intake] - INR 1,118 on flipkart

Why does CM not have any decent non-LED fans? They've got good and cheap LED fans but I really don't want LED.

Any suggestions on cheaper 120mm and/or 140mm non-LED fans?

topgear said:
@ OP - the distributor of Noctua products is theitwares - for warranty claims of noctua products you should contact there.

TheITwares Ecommerce

Thanks for this. So if there's some problem it can be resolved in India right?

^^ there's lots of decent fans are available from CM ;-)

but the issue is non availability :

Cooling -> Case Fan - Cooler Master - Leading Provider of Computer Case | Cooler | Power Supply

sharang.d said:
Thanks for this. So if there's some problem it can be resolved in India right?

of-course.

topgear said:
^^ there's lots of decent fans are available from CM but the issue is non availability :

Cooling -> Case Fan - Cooler Master - Leading Provider of Computer Case | Cooler | Power Supply

The link you are pointing to is the worldwide version of CM. In the Indian version of the website there are not that many case fans

Thats the problem, many nice fan companies are not available here :-(

You have made good choices of the fans. Regarding the problems with the fans, almost 90% of the thmes you won't face them :-D

.
Best of luck for your purchase!

saikiasunny said:
Thats the problem, many nice fan companies are not available here

Yup

You have made good choices of the fans. Regarding the problems with the fans, almost 90% of the thmes you won't face them .
Best of luck for your purchase!

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Anyway mods don't close this thread please. I might need help now/later.

sharang.d said:
Any suggestions on cheaper 120mm and/or 140mm non-LED fans?

For 120mm -
SilverStone FM121 @ 850
CM Blade Master 120mm @ 450
Deepcool UF120 @ 690

I don't own any of them; so plz check some reviews/expert opinion about them.

pcforumguy said:
For 120mm -
SilverStone FM121 @ 850
CM Blade Master 120mm @ 450
Deepcool UF120 @ 690

I don't own any of them; so plz check some reviews/expert opinion about them.

Thanks.
Didn't like the Silverstone.. Plugs directly into the PSU and comes with it's own Fan Controller(which I don't want)
Looking into the other two..

Get the cm blade master for high airflow, and the uf120 for cool n quiet operation. The uf120 is a silent performance fan. So it will be okay for a side intake.

Why is it that non-LED fans are more expensive than LED ones? :facepalm:

^ Indian version of coolermaster's website have nothing to do with the products availible in the market.

d6bmg said:
^ Indian version of coolermaster's website have nothing to do with the products availible in the market.

Whats's the use of having a website then? :-o

^^ just to gain traffic :-D

sharang.d said:
Why is it that non-LED fans are more expensive than LED ones?

Simple. Because enthusiasts choose performance over bling bling!

sharang.d said:
Why is it that non-LED fans are more expensive than LED ones?

Price doesn't depend on having or not having LED.

d6bmg said:
Price doesn't depend on having or not having LED.

I was just pointing out how it IS.. not saying it depends on having led or not

Couldn't find 140mm Noctua

Its really difficult to get performance 140mm fans in india :-|

. Have you tried theitwares or primeabgb for the noctua? If you can't find it, get a high performing 120mm fan instead

Yeah both of them didn't have Noctua

ITWares said he'll get them in 20 days but then that's what he had said 20 days before that as well

I know I should probably get a 120mm fan itself but I can't find an exceptionally awesome fan without LED

Need one.. for top exhaust.

settle with this ;-)

Cooler Master Excalibur Cooler | Cooler | Flipkart.com

Grew impatient and went for the cheap option and bought
Cooler Master CM Essentials 140 Cooler | Cooler | Flipkart.com
Finally had to go for LED ones

The weird thing is that my 120mm silverstone intake non-LED fan is costlier than this :-?

^^ what's the model name / spec of the SilverStone 120mm fan ?

Silverstone air penetrator ap121. Amazing fan

saikiasunny said:
Silverstone air penetrator ap121. Amazing fan

Correct!

saikiasunny said:
Silverstone air penetrator ap121. Amazing fan

Ok, thanks ;-)

saikiasunny said:
Silverstone air penetrator ap121. Amazing fan

Overpriced in India.
And warranty would be, well...

d6bmg said:
Overpriced in India.
And warranty would be, well...

Every item is almost overpriced in india :-D

. But other than the little high price, very nice fan.

d6bmg said:
Overpriced in India.
And warranty would be, well...

1 year warranty flipkart provides

Received my Cooler Master CM Essentials 140 Cooler | Cooler | Flipkart.com today.

Finally fan setup is complete.

Here it is:

Front 2x 120mm white LED (Stock. With on/off LED switch)
Side bottom 1x 120mm Silverstone AP121 120mm
Rear 1x Cooler Master CM Essentials 140 Cooler | Cooler | Flipkart.com
Top Rear 1x 120mm Corsair stock(switched from rear position)

Running all fans except GPU fans on full speed ;D

Congrats and where are the pics :-D

. Also what kind of temps are you getting?

Average 35 degrees during idle(browsing + watching vid etc)
Gonna run prime95 for 1 hr now. Wil let u know when its done

UPDATE:
Okay ran Prime95 + browsing + watching DragonBall GT

P) for 65 mins.. no lag whatsoever! Im in luvvvvvv <3

Overclocked at 4.2Ghz.
hits 70 degrees MAXIMUM!

Sorry no pics. No cam lol.

Here's the screenshot:
*i.imgur.com/2B0WZ.jpg

sharang.d said:
1 year warranty flipkart provides

Wrong.
Flipkart will provide only 30 days of replacement warranty.

d6bmg said:
Wrong.
Flipkart will provide only 30 days of replacement warranty.

Just meant to say what they've written on their page lol. Anyway I don't think any of my fans are gonna stop working in a year so I'm fine.

^^ yep, fans are pretty reliable - even a 80mm Rs.40 desi made fan lasted for 6 years with 6 Hrs continuous use daily ;-)

Thats the best part of cabinets and fans. They run for years w/o problems :-D

topgear said:
^^ yep, fans are pretty reliable - even a 80mm Rs.40 desi made fan lasted for 6 years with 6 Hrs continuous use daily

saikiasunny said:
Thats the best part of cabinets and fans. They run for years w/o problems

Exactly. There's not much to go wrong

Questions:
1) How do I block one of the fan vents?
2) What to use for dust filer? Also where to buy it. (Don't ask me to buy a whole mosquito net

)

^^ You don't have old mosquito net at your house?

About buying them, they will cost ~150/- each. Try that Lian Li reseller in E.

1. You can use some kind of small metal pieces, and stick them with the help of double sided tape. If you want to go cheap, take a piece of cardboard, paint it black and stick it :-D

.
2. One of our forum members have bought some lian li dust filters. You can check out the latest purchase thread. I would say don't use dust filters for the fans. They don't allow very continuos airflow. Instead cover the unwanted openings

sharang.d said:
Exactly. There's not much to go wrong

Questions:
1) How do I block one of the fan vents?
2) What to use for dust filer? Also where to buy it. (Don't ask me to buy a whole mosquito net )

1)Any Good Clothing will cover fan vent
2)Contact Kbganesh He has bought a dust filter it is here I dont where he bought ,just contact him he is Up Online

EDIT:You Can Buy It From *www.xtremegx.com

to block fan vents use transparent cellophane paper - fold them 3-4 times to get the desired thickness - stick the using black tape with the cabby.

topgear said:
to block fan vents use transparent cellophane paper - fold them 3-4 times to get the desired thickness - stick the using black tape with the cabby.

White paper with Black cabinet = color mismatch = bad interior look.

d6bmg said:
White paper with Black cabinet = color mismatch = bad interior look.

paint the paper black :-D

d6bmg said:
White paper with Black cabinet = color mismatch = bad interior look.

they are colorless ( like water ) ie Transparent ;-)

Thanks everyone for your valuable inputs.
Time to try out and see what looks good

Played Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier for more than two hours on highest setttings.

CPU max- 45 degrees C
GPU max- 50 degrees C

Is it good?

Of course, those are really nice temps

Why are compressed air cans recommended as opposed to vacuum cleaners/blowers for cleaning cabinets?

sharang.d said:
Why are compressed air cans recommended as opposed to vacuum cleaners/blowers for cleaning cabinets?

Static electricity problem. It is the same reason for which every PC components come in a electrostatic bag.

Okay but wouldn't a can of compressed air and a blower(using a vacuum machine) work in the same way?

sharang.d said:
Okay but wouldn't a can of compressed air and a blower(using a vacuum machine) work in the same way?

Blower runs manually. So no.

^Elaborate please?

sharang.d said:
Why are compressed air cans recommended as opposed to vacuum cleaners/blowers for cleaning cabinets?

No idea what you mean....
I personally clean my cabby with compressed air from my Bicycle pump.. :-D

(You too may do this.)

A bicycle pump creates a lot of pressure & blows clouds of dust out from heatsinks

twisted:BEWARE you have been warned of dust :twisted:

) ....

Also you may need an assistant for blowing the pump continuously.

sharang.d said:
^Elaborate please?

I'll explain the reason with the help of one example.
If vacuum cleaner were used, it may have created static electricity in the motherboard due to the fact that vacuum cleaner is ran by electricity. After cleaning when PC is started, that per-accumulated static electricity may damage the motherboard while being present with current electricity. That's why any dust cleaner which is run by electricity should be avoided.
Here blower is operated manually, not with electricity. So there is no chance of accumulation of static electricity in the motherboard and therefore completely safe.

@Chaitanya
Nice idea. Let's see if I can arrange one

@d6bmg
Thanks for the info. Imma look into it more

H

GUYS,need help urgently i have a zotac 9800 gt 1gb graphics card(synergy edition),i want to replace its stock cooler with an after market one...can any one suggest something and where i can buy the same in india...my budget is around 2.5k...

your gfx card is overheating ? Post The Load Temp.
Is this gfx card based on reference PCB model ? anyway, finding a aftermarket VGA cooler in here is next to impossible.

hawx said:
GUYS,need help urgently i have a zotac 9800 gt 1gb graphics card(synergy edition),i want to replace its stock cooler with an after market one...can any one suggest something and where i can buy the same in india...my budget is around 2.5k...

Bad decision. That graphics card is ultra old. Get a new card.

H

well i thought abt workaround,i'm planning a DIY on the 9800 gt,planning to screw on extra fan on the heatsink of the card and see the temperature...
lets see how it goes around...

^^ that's really a cool idea - if possible use a LED 80mm fan and post the results with a pic of-course.

H

WELL couldnt stick the 80mm,cause the card has very less space on to mount,so i'm planning to get something smaller,probably the cooling fans used inside DVD players or AMPs,searching the market for one,as soon i'll get one i'll post the pics of DIY...

try for some VGA cooler on ebay.in - this would be much easier but pricier ;-)

under 2.5k you can get some decent after market coolers for 9800GT.

BTW, Zotac offers 5 years warranty ( 2 years standard and 3 years more upon registering ), so if your carrd is still under warranty you better send it for RMA.

topgear said:
try for some VGA cooler on ebay.in - this would be much easier but pricier under 2.5k you can get some decent after market coolers for 9800GT.

BTW, Zotac offers 5 years warranty ( 2 years standard and 3 years more upon registering ), so if your carrd is still under warranty you better send it for RMA.

Getting a VGA cooler for GT9800, make absolutely no sense to me at all.

dude, that card runs retardedly hot.

Selling that 9800 and adding ~3K to the sold price, one can get HD6670.