No Direct3D sound for Vista!

I'm not sure whether this fact has been know to all of us. I just stumbled upon this while browsing.

The fact is that Windows Vista doesn't support Direct3D Sound and uses another API called OpenAL. What does this mean? Well, it means that there is no more hardware based sound processing which means you don't have surround sound!! If you have a surround sound setup, all you will get is stereo sound! no 2.1 or 5.1.. etc.. etc.. So, if you already have a surround sound setup, your games will no longer be able to give you surround sound as most games supporting EAX® effects work only with DirectSound!

If you are planning to upgrade to Vista as soon as it's out you should be aware that the hardware abstraction layer is not supported any more, not only that, but Microsoft has no idea when, or if at all, it will be fixed.

Therefore all those games you bought in the past which use DirectSound 3D won't be able to run with the surround sound you're used to.

Of course, if you are a stereo-in-two-channels kind of gamer then this won't really affect you, but those of us with surround sound who like to immerse ourselves in a bit of dog fighting or screaming crowds will be out of luck.

*www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7717).

With Microsoft's decision to remove the audio hardware layer in Windows Vista, legacy DirectSound 3D games will no longer use hardware 3D algorithms for audio spatialization. Instead they will have to rely upon the new Microsoft software mixer that is built into Windows Vista. This new software mixer will give the users basic audio support for their old Direct Sound games but since it has no hardware layer, all EAX® effects will be lost, and no individual per-voice processing can be performed using dedicated hardware processing.

EAX has become the de facto standard for real-time effects processing. It has been incorporated in hundreds of games and has become the method of choice for game developers wanting to add interactive environment effects to their titles. Some of the best selling games of all time use the EAX extensions to DirectSound 5.0 and beyond, including Warcraft3, Diablo2, World of Warcraft, Half Life, Ghost Recon, F.E.A.R. and many others. Under Windows Vista, these games will be losing the hardware support that came as standard under the previous Windows Operating Systems, and will no longer provide real-time interactive effects, making them sound empty and lifeless by comparison to the way they sound on Windows XP.

We all know the really big reason for using Windows is gaming, and this change will set Vista behind XP for the current generation of games.

This could be related to the DRM requirements for protected audio to meet the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) specification. It may be necessary to give up hardware accelerated sound in order to have DRM that meets the requirements of the MPAA and RIAA. Is this how far Microsoft is willing to go for DRM?

Windows Vista features a completely re-written audio stack. Because of the architectural changes in the redesigned audio stack, a direct path from DirectSound to the audio drivers does not exist. DirectSound and other APIs such as MME are emulated as WASAPI Session instances. DirectSound runs in emulation mode on the Microsoft software mixer. The emulator does not have hardware abstraction, so there is no hardware DirectSound acceleration, meaning hardware and software relying on DirectSound acceleration may have degraded performance, however with more powerful hardware, there may not be any performance hit. In the case of hardware 3D audio effects played using DirectSound3D, they will not be playable.
Third-party APIs such as ASIO and OpenAL are not affected by these architectural changes in Windows Vista. A solution for applications that wish to take advantage of hardware accelerated high-quality 3D positional audio is to use OpenAL. However, this only works if the manufacturer provides an OpenAL driver for their hardware

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectSound

I don't know why Microsoft Fanboys still keep saying we should all embrace Vista!

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Well if this really is true, then its simply terrible for MS WIndows VISTA users! Neways there is a suggestion thread in FIGHt CLUB created by our beloved MVP. Will read this 2morow, but I hope it'd be rectified after giving some suggestions! *www.smileyhut.com/happy/victory.gif

mediator said:
Well if this really is true, then its simply terrible for MS WIndows VISTA users! Neways there is a suggestion thread in FIGHt CLUB created by our beloved MVP. Will read this 2morow, but I hope it'd be rectified after giving some suggestions! *www.smileyhut.com/happy/victory.gif

Do you really think that thread is going to make any changes to the way windows is?

It's just a fanboy thread to try to change everyone's mind into thinking that windows is the best!

vista's sp1 may be mostly DRM updates as per M$&RIAA-MPAA.sure something will break(core software) and the OS to survive with DRM :lol:

In case DRM(restrictions management) - *defectivebydesign.org explains this.

US laws are flawed(sure!) more when it comes to DMCA like things.
their laws are helpful for the corporates(i mean hollywood too) to loot their citizens.

I posted about this many times. Fanboys were claiming it to be untrue.
But css, doom 3 etc work in 5.1 because they dont use dsound. But F.E.A.R loses its immersions almost completely because the gun shots sound like stones being hurled at a door. This is the main reason for me to not upgrade to vista, apart from the RAM requirements.

P

Since Help~is~Here has, in his usual helpful fashion, demonstrated to us just how evil Windows Vista is for not having D3D Sound, I just thought this might be informative:
OpenAL and Vista

Methinks he should have posted the whole article, since he is so helpful to us all.

Help~Is~Here said:
The fact is that Windows Vista doesn't support Direct3D Sound and uses another API called OpenAL.

Lolz...so now you have problem cos Microsoft left there own propriety DS3D & adopted an Open Standard which can be used on any platform. First you say MS should go Open standard & now when they are still u r blaming them......some people can never understand.

What does this mean? Well, it means that there is no more hardware based sound processing which means you don't have surround sound!! If you have a surround sound setup, all you will get is stereo sound! no 2.1 or 5.1.. etc.. etc.. So, if you already have a surround sound setup, your games will no longer be able to give you surround sound as most games supporting EAX® effects work only with DirectSound!

Dude seriously...stop working on Windows Vista from today

DirectSound 3D was a DirectX only sound API which used to support hardware voices & hardware processing of Sound. But due to this there was a hardware required. Means a dedicated sound hardware can process & encode decode audio in hardware without using the CPU. This has nothing to do with 5.1 or 7.1 sound system.

Due to this creative made EAX Sound system & refused to open EAX 3.0 or later, resulting in creative having a monopoly on the sound card market. If you want to play a game using EAX then get a creative sound card no matter how crappy the drivers are. Creative didn't let anyone else use EAX 3.0 due to which all other sound card manufacturers came up with there own software based sound system such as Sensura 3D however these were not popular.

Then came Microsoft which found that sound can be processed using software only & with Intel, they made the specification of HD Audio. Now a DSP is all you need & no a dedicated hardware to process audio. Microsoft made XAudio 1.0 & released it in XBOX 360 & Intel bought same thing to PC platform which now nVidia & AMD have also incorporated. HD Audio provides upto 32bit audio & much better then EMU10K1 used in Audigy line of Creative

Microsoft went with OpenAL, an open standard of sound API that any sound card or game developer can use & Microsoft has no propriety control over this & also creative also has no propriety control on this due to which the monopoly of creative in sound card market is gone.

Any game manufacturer can provide full multi channel audio in games using OpenAL & this will work on a variety of DSP either from Sigmatel or C-Media or Via. One method & it will work on all Intel HD Audio compatible standard which is again Open to all sound DSP manufacturers. Using Software you can right now process upto 10.1 Audio in pure 32bit audio mode up from Creatives 24-bit audio mode. Why do hardware only processing when everything can be achieved using a DSP & software driver.

Creative saw this & released Alchemy hardware driver for audigy sound cards. Anyone willing can simply download Alchemy drivers from creative & use Direct3D Sound in usual games when played in Windows Vista. Creative X-Fi sound card are not affected

This could be related to the DRM requirements for protected audio to meet the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) specification. It may be necessary to give up hardware accelerated sound in order to have DRM that meets the requirements of the MPAA and RIAA. Is this how far Microsoft is willing to go for DRM?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who ever wrote this article has no idea how games are made & what Sound API is. I would gladly tell a friend of mine who is toooooooooo much into Audio & OpenAL to post here & he can make it clear why MS went with OpenAL which is an open standard instead of propriety DS3D & still u fanboys have problem.

If a game developers decides to make his games in OpenAL he gets all 3D Sound positioning, revarb effect everything, just that this time it is not limited to Creative Only sound card & Windows, but now it can be used on Windows, Mac, Linux equally with any HD Audio compatible sound DSP such as from Via, Sigmatel, C-Media, Analog Device or Realtek.

Its the same thing, same features, same everything but it is working in pure software processing & doesn't rely on a hardware specific solution. With dual & quad Core CPU now, this makes sense. Same goes with Direct3D Video API.

Microsoft just killed Creative's monopoly in sound card market & still u r blaming them....

Well if this really is true, then its simply terrible for MS WIndows VISTA users!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Microsoft just made Sound API & gaming better dude, seriously stop working on Microsoft technologies. They did it first, saying the industry to move to cross platform audio API.

Since Help~is~Here has, in his usual helpful fashion, demonstrated to us just how evil Windows Vista is for not having D3D Sound, I just thought this might be informative:
OpenAL and Vista

Methinks he should have posted the whole article, since he is so helpful to us all.

Do u expect him to do this....

seriously HiH....why do u ask for public pwnage & talk about something which you have no idea about. Microsoft just made life easy for Linux., Mac & cross platform Sound API because by using OpenAL, MS gave developers more freedom & now if they will make something for the biggest market there & they can sure port it to other platform too. Hack, OpenAL can also work on nVidia Go 4500 Mobile Phone APU.

P

@GX_Saurav:

I just knew there was something I should have added to my last post, but for the life of me I could not figure it out. I've got it now and so my last line in my last post has been modified to read thus:

Methinks he should have posted the whole article, since he is so helpful to us all.

Sincerely, Linboys seem to have patented the term and technique for FUD.

By the way, is there a mosquito in the room?? I wonder what else that whining sound could be!!

Lolz....whining indeed.

More about OpenAL

OpenAL (Open Audio Library) is a free software cross-platform audio API. It is designed for efficient rendering of multichannel three dimensional positional audio. Its API style and conventions deliberately resemble that of OpenGL.

OpenAL was originally developed by Loki Software in order to help them in their business of porting Windows games to Linux. After the demise of Loki, the project was maintained for a while by the free software/open source community — but it is now hosted (and largely developed) by Creative Technology with on-going support from Apple and free software/open source enthusiasts.

Multichannel 3d Positional Audio = EAX

Sound API used to make EAX = DirectSound 3D from Microsoft.

What MS removed from Vista = There own DS3D

P

So I guess then that I can safely rescind my own previous opinion that most Linux/FOSS users are technologically well informed.

pillainp said:
So I guess then that I can safely rescind my own previous opinion that most Linux/FOSS users are technologically well informed.

Lolz.....this does proves. Some are true Lingeeks who know thing. Some are trying to be mock Lngeeks.

HiH says he is an Admin, he sounds like a 13 Years old to me.

@GX : So I finally read the source and ur replies. But it wud be wonderful if u enlighten us with ur knowledge by quoting the source para by para and then giving ur arguments!

@pillainp : WOrld of computers has many different fields. An average linboy surely knows better than an average winboy on basic matters of OS, processes, memory and how it works!

But other areas that work on the top of it, like Gaming, MultiMedia, programming in high level languages are different!! A linboy might be having some interest in games or tech. related to multimedia! A winboy might be having better C++ knowledge than a Linboy and Vice Versa!!

So please do not take it as granted that people who work on Linux know everything!! GX's posts rarely give me any knowledge. But surely his posts in this thread intrigues me. He is a multimedia, designing person and so obviously might be having more knowledge and arguments than any other person here on stuff related to mulimedia, mobile phones etc! I hope u understand.

A person has better knowledge abt the field he is interested in and might be acquainted to everything else!! But I hope he wont lie!

mediator said:
@GX : So I finally read the source and ur replies. But it wud be wonderful if u enlighten us with ur knowledge by quoting the source para by para and then giving ur arguments!

What I wrote here is my own I m working since years in DirectX & OpenGL. I know whats true & whats not. Everything I wrote here is my own knowledge.

An average linboy surely knows better than an average winboy on basic matters of OS, processes, memory and how it works!

Ya we can see that when a Linboy doesn't even know about an Open Technology called OpenAL

& tries to downplay Microsoft & Vista which bought this open technology for the masses out there first.

And how does that relate to basic knowledge of OSs? The whole forum knows that u don't know even the basics of OS where u talked foolishly abt the RAm and virtual memory in our last discussion on ISo file being played by MPLayer directly and other cases and inspite of that keep arguing like a fanboy shamelessly!

OPen AL is more a part of multimedia. I too had multimedia in my college days. But it hardly made any interest to me in those days! U might be knowing bt WMP and related technologies, but do u know abt how it connects to internet, protocols lying beneath in depth? Is it related to multimedia anyhow?

I'm a linux guy, but play seldom with beryl as I dont have time to play around with such things. This is more for kids! But I do luv the transparencies!! Noobies might be knowing more than me on berly related stuff.

ANd if @HIH is a sys admin, then dont take it as granted that he might be knowing all bt multimedia!! He might be I dunno!

And since u seem to know it all, then enlighten us quoting the source para by para giving ur arguments!

P

@mediator:
I will take you statement about level of computer knowledge with some salt, if I can only find enough.

What HiH has done here is to take an excerpt from an article with the specific intention of creating doubt in the minds of casual readers (but unfortunately, we looked up the entire article). This must therefore be construed as a deliberate attempt to create the very same thing in their minds that you are so quick to accuse the Windows community of: creating Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Knowledge is a very subjective thing. What you read is what you know, or learn, but you people have time and again demonstrated your willingness (nay desire) to only absorb and reflect that portion of whatever is shown to you that will make your opponents appear in a bad light. We have on these boards a shining example, a gentleman who harps on about DRM in Vista, when he knows full well that it is not native to Vista but has been placed there on compulsion from outside agencies. He also chooses to sound off about the freedom of choice, but then refuses to accept my right to choose which OS or software I use.

When drivers for hardware are not available for Vista, you call it a bad OS, but when the same thing happens on Linux, you blame the manufacturers for that hardware, who should have provided the drivers in the first place.

HiH said:
I don't understand why both these Winboys are waiting so eagerly for bad press about apple and posting it to show their EGO rather than helping out people in the forum.

Why do you guys want to turn this forum into your ego battlefield? Post some useful information that will help people! I think this thread is just another Microsoft Faboy's ego show!

tum karo toh chamtakar hum karen toh balatakar

wah re HiH ....

pillainp said:
@mediator:
I will take you statement about level of computer knowledge with some salt, if I can only find enough.

What HiH has done here is to take an excerpt from an article with the specific intention of creating doubt in the minds of casual readers (but unfortunately, we looked up the entire article). This must therefore be construed as a deliberate attempt to create the very same thing in their minds that you are so quick to accuse the Windows community of: creating Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Knowledge is a very subjective thing. What you read is what you know, or learn, but you people have time and again demonstrated your willingness (nay desire) to only absorb and reflect that portion of whatever is shown to you that will make your opponents appear in a bad light. We have on these boards a shining example, a gentleman who harps on about DRM in Vista, when he knows full well that it is not native to Vista but has been placed there on compulsion from outside agencies. He also chooses to sound off about the freedom of choice, but then refuses to accept my right to choose which OS or software I use.

When drivers for hardware are not available for Vista, you call it a bad OS, but when the same thing happens on Linux, you blame the manufacturers for that hardware, who should have provided the drivers in the first place.

IF u understand that well, then u might be understanding also that many people have given up on MS becoz of their new hobby of lying and creating FUDS. The most famous : OSS violating 230+ Ms patents. I hope u know bt it.

Now what will u say that MS knows nuthin bt multimedia and technology at all? Think unbiasedly and u'll see the picture and situation that is prevailing!!

ANd if @HIH is a sys admin, then dont take it as granted that he might be knowing all bt multimedia!! He might be I dunno!

If he doesn' know anything then why post this nonsence

Oh!he(@pillay) is justifying DRM on Vista,i see!passion for deprived freedom fetish-that may be the case.DRM is installed by Microsoft and I consider this as a rootkit & a future when MSFT also consider selling locked movies,videos.who knows?they got something like market place in their site already?M$ are may be venturing into DRM media business.why somebody will push M$ to put DRM.will they bundle firefox &OSS software if FOSS people "pushes"=definitely not.
why go on justifying a company which is already famed for Anti-trust & Patent FUD on OSS Linux?this is M$ technology addiction!whether it is right or wrong -have a balanced look.
M$ does this in Vista becoz they are clever enough to make users feel their deprived freedom(DRM) is the real Freedom.and a source of more and more money from DRM market!

one more thread like this..

not again..

thread locked and wont open for the same discussions and flamming again and again..
@gx. hih and praka you guys are now crossing limits... every other thread you guys see with windows, linux or mac.. you guys start whinning and flaming.. and HIH one more thread or flame i see you are miserabled.. and remember that, coz i wont be lite with my decision this time.. and you have problem... contact admins..

and guys making new id's for flaming be aware that we are noting your IP's ... and this dont think if you are on dynamic we cant resolve you..