OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

Good news or bad news, depends on which side you are on.

The International Standards Organization (ISO) will announce the results tomorrow -- 2 April 2008; but as the analysis/tracking of the votes show, Microsoft seemed to have won this battle. With the muscular power that Microsoft has, it wasn't impossible. What was impossible was the initial defeat in the first round held in the month of September last year.

According to the sites which are tracking the votes, so far:
Yes votes: 22
No votes: 10
Abstain votes: 9

India has given No to OOXML, but those members of the BIS Committee who voted 'Yes', seemed to have no other option owing to their close ties with Microsoft -- defy and lose all the contracts. It's simple.

But, what's surprising was even on the last day, i.e. yesterday, two major developments took place -- France shifted from disapprove to abstain whereas Norway filed a protest with ISO relating to its own vote; they are asking it to be suspended until an internal investigation is concluded over shifting NO to Yes!

Just one day ago, on 30 March 2008, Australia and Malaysia stayed as abstain. What's surprising is Linus Torvald's home country Finland has also approved OOXML format.

Czech Republic, Denmark, Korea, the United Kingdom, Ireland are the countries which changed courts from No to Yes in favour of OOXML, whereas only Venezuela took U-turn from Yes to No!

India, including Chile, Germany, Poland, South Africa, USA, Canada and New Zealand have maintained their NO!

The crux of the matter is once OOXML is approved as an ISO standard, Microsoft will have no obligation to implement ODF, the competitor. They will keep ruling the world in the manner they have been doing since ages. That was why while we had so many choices for almost everything in this world -- from cars to mobile phones, there was NO choice available in the realm of operating systems for an ordinary user until GNU/Linux entered the arena.

It must be noted that every NO to abstain is a gain for Microsoft, and every YES to abstain is a loss.

Microsoft will have its way, and its market will continue to grow.

Source

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

Is that author a serious Linux Fan or an Idiot?

95% of the world uses Microsoft Office, it's document format is widely used & more or less like a standard already. How many users have u seen using ODF instead of Doc?

ODF is still there for Office, just that like before MS won't be making the ODF plugin for Office & won't even bundle it. Why should they???? They are not the ones making it, if the user wants it he can download it.

Do one thing, submit your resume somewhere in ODF format & tell us what reply u get here. If it is anything other then "Plz send the resume in MS office format" then I will pay Rs 11 to u

Microsoft has learned from the mistake & OOXML is already an ISO standard. It has everything to logically become ISO standard & those who oppose it will obviously do it in sheer fanboyism.

What the freeking problem of u guys???? U will still be sending electronic documents in PDF format, mail files to each other in MS office formats cos even if ODF is there, maximum number of users are using MS office, will u go & force them or tell them to install another plugin???

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

:lol:

all bow to the Microsoft overlords commanded by ballmer

_

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

I hope this must be an april fool joke

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

CadCrazy said:
I hope this must be an april fool joke

yeah you never know lol I better log off and come tomorrow

_

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

But is it not an open standard, AFAIK it stands for Office Open XML. Is it required to pay for it if you want to implement it or are people angry just because it is from Microsoft?

Goingt through this part, it seems open enough to me.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML#Licensing

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

gx_saurav said:
Microsoft has learned from the mistake & OOXML is already an ISO standard. It has everything to logically become ISO standard & those who oppose it will obviously do it in sheer fanboyism.

You have some mental illness, better see a doctor ASAP. Everyone in the world knows that OOXML is crap, not open and useless, we don't need another one of you fanboys trying to install this crap into our heads!

gx_saurav said:
What the freeking problem of u guys????

The person with the freaking problem is fanboys like you, not us!

Please don't waste your time trying to prove OOXML as worthy more than my bathroom sandals, we all know what it's worth!

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

Is it required to pay for it if you want to implement it or are people angry just because it is from Microsoft?

good question!
nebody want to answer this?

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

As long as its in the Public Domain or OSS, I don't care about it.
It needs to be a standard that can be implemented by each and every one.
Else it doesn't deserve ISO certification.

ISO Will Approve Microsoft's OOXML Format Wednesday

As the Internet buzzes with speculation regarding the outcome of Microsoft (NSDQ:MSFT)'s attempt to get its OOXML document format recognized as an international standard, International Standards Organization (ISO) communications services manager Roger Frost confirmed the ISO will announce the vote count on Wednesday.

"Because ISO needs first to inform its worldwide membership of national standards bodies of these results, a press release on this subject will be issued on Wednesday, 2 April 2008," Frost wrote in an email.

Unconfirmed online news reports predicted Microsoft garnered the necessary two-thirds vote majority from the 87 countries participating in the voting, which closed Saturday night among some last minute vote reversals.

While the United States affirmed its support for the confirmation, other countries shifted positions. The Czech Republic changed its vote to one of support while Cuba changed course and decided to oppose Microsoft's efforts, The International Herald Tribune reported.

In a blog post on Friday, Brian Jones, Microsoft's OOXML technical architect, announced that Norway, South Korea, and Denmark had switched their votes from Disapprove to Approve. Standards New Zealand Chief Executive Debbie Chin affirmed in a statement on Sunday the nation opposes adoption of the OOXML specification as an international standard.

Microsoft developed OOXML for its Office 2007 suite and is positioning it as an open standard. In December 2006, OOXML was certified as an Ecma standard, and Microsoft has been pushing hard to get OOXML certified with the ISO.

Heavy lobbying from Microsoft, IBM and Sun Microsystems has also stirred up emotion, while allegations of voting irregularities caused further strain. "This is a purely commercial battle masquerading as a principled debate over open-document standards," John Zuck, Association for Competitive Technology president, told the Tribune. "If Microsoft had opened up sooner, they might not be having the problems they are having now."

Jason Matusow, Microsoft's director of corporate standards, writing in a blog post on Friday acknowledged that the issue at the heart of the matter of standards is interoperability, but insisted having more than one document format is beneficial.

"I have repeatedly made the argument that it is bad logic that leads you to the conclusion that there should be only one document format," he wrote. "If you value innovation in document creation, and you want to see applications continue to advance rapidly, and you want to see broad-based problem sets be addressed creatively -- then more innovation is good."

Source

Re: Microsoft has won......OOXML format wins ISO approval

yay! gr8 decision!

Re: Microsoft has won......OOXML format wins ISO approval

Similar news already posted
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84079

Re: Microsoft has won......OOXML format wins ISO approval

will request the MODs to merge it

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

reuters too reports:
*www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL0179716920080401

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

Cyrus_the_virus said:
You have some mental illness, better see a doctor ASAP. Everyone in the world knows that OOXML is crap, not open and useless, we don't need another one of you fanboys trying to install this crap into our heads!

Plz elaborate why OOXML is crap compared to ODF, when both are 100% Open Standards, with no properity check in OOXML left anymore.

Please don't waste your time trying to prove OOXML as worthy more than my bathroom sandals, we all know what it's worth!

Yaar, I m not a linux geek like u r , or a FOSS geek so plz tell us why ODF is better then OOXML technically.

Seems like u r hating OOXML just cos it is from Microsoft despite of it being a completely open standard now with no Microsoft control

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

gx_saurav said:
Seems like u r hating OOXML just cos it is from Microsoft despite of it being a completely open standard now with no Microsoft control

isnt it obvious considering the fact that ppl on this forum will say tht vista sp1 was hacked in a recent compretition because it has drm in built (which they say tht they will support piracy but not drm) and not reading the fact tht vista became vulnerable because of a third party application and tht too flash ... and this being a solid reason for silverlight as a much better solution .... but no silverlight is frm ms so its crap, drm is implemented by ms so its crap (sony is a great company even though it created drm)

here ppl dont critisize technology (as in good/bad based on features) but based on the brand, the yard stick for measuring a product is the brand and not the product features; after all here ppl by shampoos and bikes because a certain bollywood actor (or actress endorses it, cant say abt the personal choices of ppl

)

we are at thinkantiMS.com/forum

Seems like u r hating OOXML just cos it is from Microsoft despite of it being a completely open standard now with no Microsoft control

source please.

I want a proper "offitial" source from microsoft which states that I can do anything I like, commercial or non-commercial, with OOXML and allows OpenOffice, iWorks, StarOffice, AbiWord, KOffice, etc to support OOXML fully and provides adaquate doccumentation to help in doing the same.

if I get one, I accept that M$ can become MS in this context.

just chkd its been approved as an iso std .... indian babus still proved they cant make a right decision

the reason for the success of companies like Infy, TCS is tht they know whats gonna be successful

MetalheadGautham said:
source please.

I want a proper "offitial" source from microsoft which states that I can do anything I like, commercial or non-commercial, with OOXML and allows OpenOffice, iWorks, StarOffice, AbiWord, KOffice, etc to support OOXML fully and provides adaquate doccumentation to help in doing the same.

if I get one, I accept that M$ can become MS in this context.

It is a ISO standard now, which means it is open & anyone can use it & implement it without any restrictions. This is what ISO standard means...

gx_saurav said:
It is a ISO standard now, which means it is open & anyone can use it & implement it without any restrictions. This is what ISO standard means...

I am a clueless n00b when it comes to economics. I am a science/literature/computers guy.

Anyway, if that is the case, then congratulations to MS. But they need to ensure that other software are able to easily implement its format.

PS: wasn't OOXML originally OpenOfficeXML ?

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

gx_saurav said:
Plz elaborate why OOXML is crap compared to ODF, when both are 100% Open Standards, with no properity check in OOXML left anymore.

Yaar, I m not a linux geek like u r , or a FOSS geek so plz tell us why ODF is better then OOXML technically.

Seems like u r hating OOXML just cos it is from Microsoft despite of it being a completely open standard now with no Microsoft control

And so you thought....

Reason are more than what the human mind can comprehend:

Few of the technical reasons:

1.> The Disharmony of OOXML

2.> Major Defects still Remain unsolved!

3.> OOXML is based on MS-Office. No standard is tied to or evolves from a product. Standards are vendor independent but OOXML is heavily dependent on MS-Office. In short, it's just another MS-Office format!

Voting Process reasons:

1.> ISO changing the whole process just for one company! (double standards)

2.> Utter-nonsense voting (eg: Norway's 19 members voted NO against 5 and and Norway;s vote was registered as 'YES'!!)

3.> Bribing and faking(Not necessary if the product is worthy by itself)

4.> Not discussing the proposed 3000+ changes to the sad format! Just voting 'yes' & 'no' without even checking if the problem has been sorted to suit the time frames for one company! wtf?

5.> ISO officials, others dispute claims thatOpen XML meeting was flawed

6.> Nevermind the bulls**t, here's OOXML, says Microsoft

I guess this should be enought to prove your assumptions wrong that it's only about hating microsoft! Dude, OOXML is crap in the current state which can be seen from the links posted above. It might be worthy enough to be an ISO standard without MS needing to bribe and use cheap tactics if the fix the issues discussed in the first ISO meeting... but wait.. what will you understand being an MS fanboy.. sigh...

@cyrus: don't tell ethical stuff. Please tell us some technical stuff which makes ODF better or worser than OOXML.

MetalheadGautham said:
@cyrus: don't tell ethical stuff. Please tell us some technical stuff which makes ODF better or worser than OOXML.

1st point give is clear enough as to why odf is better, will post more..

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

Cyrus_the_virus said:
And so you thought....

Reason are more than what the human mind can comprehend:

Few of the technical reasons:

1.> The Disharmony of OOXML

2.> Major Defects still Remain unsolved!

3.> OOXML is based on MS-Office. No standard is tied to or evolves from a product. Standards are vendor independent but OOXML is heavily dependent on MS-Office. In short, it's just another MS-Office format!

Lolz...no more discussion, stick to your terminal....you hardly know anything of reality.

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

Cyrus_the_virus said:
3.> OOXML is based on MS-Office. No standard is tied to or evolves from a product. Standards are vendor independent but OOXML is heavily dependent on MS-Office. In short, it's just another MS-Office format!

an absolutely rubbish statement, just because a company made a standard based on a product that is the most used read and understand this - ms office is the numero uno office suite used so a format for it by defacto is or should be made or should be considerd a standard

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

gx_saurav said:
Lolz...no more discussion, stick to your terminal....you hardly know anything of reality.

I didn't expect anything more than that @gx, we know who is far from reality, and we do realize that you sadly still sleep in the MS dream world. Thanks for confirming that by not answering the issues posted. Wait, MS can't sort it, then what will you answer?

iMav said:
an absolutely rubbish statement, just because a company made a standard based on a product that is the most used read and understand this - ms office is the numero uno office suite used so a format for it by defacto is or should be made or should be considerd a standard

Dream on fanboy, if the entire world starts to use what you think of as a standard, then everyone would be using application specifics protocols and not standards. lolz.. can't believe your ignorance man.

BTW, the view above is not just mine but a majority of the what the standards world believes is a standard

Instead of calling me & iMav, why don't u just state why is ODF better then OOXML technically?

Re: WTF : OOXML Almost An ISO Standard!

iMav said:
an absolutely rubbish statement, just because a company made a standard based on a product that is the most used read and understand this - ms office is the numero uno office suite used so a format for it by defacto is or should be made or should be considerd a standard

actually, you lost a point there.
a true ISO standard is supposed to be such that it can be implemented by anyone and everyone, not just by a majority. So weather its a crazy chap running BeOS, or a richboy mac user, or a hardcore vista addict or a tux geek, all of them must be able to use it.

That is why an ISO standard is made so that anyone can implement it freely.

gx_saurav said:
Instead of calling me & iMav, why don't u just state why is ODF better then OOXML technically?

Stop your deceptive crap. I've already mentioned them, stop playing around in circles to try to fool everyone. The 1st point itself if more than enough to prove your question.

Secondly, stop the crap about prove if ODF is better than OOXML. This is what is wrong with MS and it's bunch of fanboys, they turn everything into a competitive thing. Open standards don't compete with each other, they complement each other. The point again is about OOXML being worthy of ISO standardization and not OOXML v/s ODF. The points mentioned above clearly show why it was never worthty of becoming an ISO standard due to conflicts within itself and to what the majority of the open standard world knows about. Unfortunately, we live in a world that has murder, corrupt politicians, fraud, bribery and Microsoft. This is just another case of money power winning over while the truth remains shunted for the profit of the people who support it and not for the profit of the people who are going to use them.

So, @gx, first, try to atleast give an explanation to the points listed which everyone knows that even MS doesn't have to answer to. Then you can play your 'ringa, ringa roses' game and run around in circles by keeping on asking for more and manupulating things.

MetalheadGautham said:
actually, you lost a point there.
a true ISO standard is supposed to be such that it can be implemented by anyone and everyone, not just by a majority. So weather its a crazy chap running BeOS, or a richboy mac user, or a hardcore vista addict or a tux geek, all of them must be able to use it.

+1, but who's going to listen?

KDE's ISO Delegate Votes Yes to Office Open XML
this week saw the International Standards Organisation vote on adopting Office Open XML as a standard for office documents. KDE gained a representative late last year through our legal body KDE e.V. realising that the only way to ensure a fair process was to be part of it. Today our delegate voted yes to adopting the format as an international standard. "We have studied the standard hard and many changes have been made to it," said KDE's Supreme Leader Aaron Seigo "and following a $10,000 donation from an anonymous North American source we realised the market should decide the best formats to use, not technical bureaucrats".

*dot.kde.org/1207000153/

ISO Approves OOXML
*slashdot.org/articles/08/04/01/2229207.shtml

gary4gar said:
KDE's ISO Delegate Votes Yes to Office Open XML
this week saw the International Standards Organisation vote on adopting Office Open XML as a standard for office documents. KDE gained a representative late last year through our legal body KDE e.V. realising that the only way to ensure a fair process was to be part of it. Today our delegate voted yes to adopting the format as an international standard. "We have studied the standard hard and many changes have been made to it," said KDE's Supreme Leader Aaron Seigo "and following a $10,000 donation from an anonymous North American source we realised the market should decide the best formats to use, not technical bureaucrats".

*dot.kde.org/1207000153/

Just to set the record straight, this was an April fool Joke!

Hence not true.

gary4gar said:
ISO Approves OOXML
*slashdot.org/articles/08/04/01/2229207.shtml

OK It is done,
The only question remains, how long before people move to it.!

BTW Gary, got rid of the chinese? If not, format it there is no way you can the utilities in English.

^^^^

read the post above your's.... d'oh

_

I thought the KDE part was the joke, not the slashdot thing.

S

Just an observation, please dont think this as flame or fanboy statement...

I use OpenOffice.org at my office (cant afford MS Office)... Today, we had some addresses that needed to send letters... I created the cover page of the letter (with the To address) and then another page which I set as Envelope size (so that I could print the cover page and the Envelope one after the other).... Note that all this is in ODF format.... For some strange reason, the envelope contents gets printed heavily offset from the margin... (the from address in the bottom left comes in the bottom center, and the to address at the middle is printed in the right extreme)... But Print Preview is showing it correctly... I had a similar experience while trying to use mail merge earlier, and if I export it to PDF it worked and then, I would print from the PDF file and it would print correctly...

I am not 100% sure if this is a bug in ODF (and not OOo), but I believe that it is because I opened the ODF file in Ashampoo Office Textmaker 2006 (came free in one of the mag CDs before), and the same result was experienced...

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that even ODF is not a 100% perfect format... As far as I can understand, if OOXML becomes an ISO standard, it will be available for everybody to use or ignore without any fees/royalty right? Many of the users here opposed to OOXML appear to me to do so simply because it is by Microsoft....

I am not saying that OOXML is perfect, or that it is better than ODF or that it deserves to be a ISO standard... But I think we should not really step into the debate on the topic based on biased terms (this goes for MS fanboys also)...

Arun

J

Dude Cyrus ???

Jayanth.M.P said:
Dude Cyrus ???

What???

sakumar79 said:
Just an observation, please dont think this as flame or fanboy statement...

I use OpenOffice.org at my office (cant afford MS Office)... Today, we had some addresses that needed to send letters... I created the cover page of the letter (with the To address) and then another page which I set as Envelope size (so that I could print the cover page and the Envelope one after the other).... Note that all this is in ODF format.... For some strange reason, the envelope contents gets printed heavily offset from the margin... (the from address in the bottom left comes in the bottom center, and the to address at the middle is printed in the right extreme)... But Print Preview is showing it correctly... I had a similar experience while trying to use mail merge earlier, and if I export it to PDF it worked and then, I would print from the PDF file and it would print correctly...

I am not 100% sure if this is a bug in ODF (and not OOo), but I believe that it is because I opened the ODF file in Ashampoo Office Textmaker 2006 (came free in one of the mag CDs before), and the same result was experienced...

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that even ODF is not a 100% perfect format... As far as I can understand, if OOXML becomes an ISO standard, it will be available for everybody to use or ignore without any fees/royalty right? Many of the users here opposed to OOXML appear to me to do so simply because it is by Microsoft....

I am not saying that OOXML is perfect, or that it is better than ODF or that it deserves to be a ISO standard... But I think we should not really step into the debate on the topic based on biased terms (this goes for MS fanboys also)...

Arun

Mate, respect your views about the above mentioned and don't dispute them, but I guess it's time you feed the paper correctly into your printer to get it printed as on print preview.

Priniting envelopes is a pain whether it is in Open Office or MS Office. And if the print is different from what you see in the print preview, it's not a so called 'bug' in the document format or a problem with the application. I've experienced the same problem even when I've used MS office. When ever the print is different from what you see in the print preview, then it's either a printer driver 'bug' or inaccurate paper feed. It's not a document format 'bug' :lol:

BTW, for those who still keep asking the question about why it shouldn't have been an ISO standard, reasons are given in my previous posts. And stop having the misconception that people don't want OOXML to be ISO just because it's from Microsoft. Facts are mentioned above. Refer them.

MS Fanboys here tried to dispute the above facts like they always do by taking it off topic :lol:

and @gx, says we live in a different world, I guess he's right, coz he still lives in a world where he thinks gmail doesn't have pop and imap and that sony owns the cell processor architecture :lol:

S

Just for clarification, the ODF problem also occurs with mailing labels (trying to print a table of 3x6 label entries) in an A4 sheet... So, to the best of my understanding, it has nothing to do with how I put the sheet in... Of course, I am not 100% sure if the problem is with the ODF format or something else...
I dont think it is a printer driver bug either because if I export the ODF file to PDF and print from Acrobat Reader, it prints fine... So, my guess is that there is some discrepancy in the representation of what is to be printed in paper and what is displayed....

Anyways, I went through a little bit of the links you posted (the second link was so long, it was hard to keep going past a limit), and there are some significant points to consider and some insignificant "bugs" too... I think if Microsoft had ironed out the major issues before pushing for ISO standard, it would be good... But I dont know how many issues remain and how many are solved... Any ideas on the latest status?

Arun

I am sure that XML will be a standard, 75% of votes are towards it.

just Wait for official announcement

gary4gar said:
I am sure that XML will be a standard, 75% of votes are towards it.

just Wait for official announcement

It's already officially an ISO standard. subject to appeals from member states over the next few months.

gx_saurav said:
That is why an ISO standard is made so that anyone can implement it freely.

Implement freely? what? OOXML?? :lol:

Are you nuts?

Please stop crapping and wasting other people's time if you have no idea about what in the world you're talking about!

Oh wait, you're a fanboy, I forgot

I understand that MS fanboys have the excellent ability to not understand anything that MS is doing.

Anyways, the point is, which I'm quite sure you have no idea about, there is something called OSP with OOXML. MS's so called Open Specification Promise which states that:

"As long as Microsoft participates in the revision process to completion, Microsoft irrevocably commits to apply the OSP to that future version of IS29500 [the OOXML specification]."

(OSP) -- a pledge it won't sue developers using OOXML -- will apply to future versions of the document format.

As you can see, Not only is MS saying that if you make a revision without MS participating in it, they will sue you, but also if MS drops OOXML, they will sue you if you continue with it!!

Also, it applies only for future versions, which means, if you try to implement OOXML in it's current format without consenting M$, they'll sue you. So much so for being a standard! Darn!!

So, in short, apart from not being a standard in itself, it's not open, so stop this crap daydreaming misconception of your's and stop saying sh!t that OOXML is open!