SMPS/PSU doubt & compatibility with my config

S

I have seen everyone here going for the Corsair, Antec etc SPMS which are for about 3k, 4k etc. But we get an SMPS with the cabinet for just Rs. 400 - 500. So whats so different between these smps and the 3k-4k SMPSes? Even the wattage is comparable.

I'm buying an assembled PC with these components that i have selected:
Will the SMPS that comes with the cabinet (IBall) be able to support that configuration? What should be its wattage for this config? (And how do u calculate it!?)
Also please tell if this configuration is good for mediocre gaming and video conversions.

Component.................Specs..................................Price
CPU.......................Intel C2D 3.0Ghz E8400.............8600
Mobo.....................Intel DG31PR...........................3450
HDD.......................250 GB Serial ATA Seagate........2325
RAM ..... ...............1GB 800 Transcend x 2..............950x2
GFX Card................nVIDIA 512MB 8600GT..............3900
Cabinet..................I box (includes SMPS)...............1300
UPS.......................Champion...............................(have already)
Monitor..................17” TFT monitor LG..................8150
TV Tuner card.........Intex/PixelView.......................~1100
Speakers................Creative Inspire 2.1 ................1750
Firewire card......................................................~300
DVD Writer.........................................................1100

The UPS i have may be of 600VA. Its rating isnt written anywhere but its Model No is written as UPS-600P

R

you pay for what you get..people are not stupid to pay more if it is the same...

cheap smps say it has so and so wattage. but in reality it could only effectively supply half of it more or less if i m not wrong abt it

M

I would go with DG33 or DG35 as it has better ( only marginal but noticeable) and has more SATA ports ( ICH9 vs ICH7) and supports 4 memory slots ( better expandability )

S

Well I was going to go for DG33 only but its not available here currently. But surfing more just now on mobos, i found out that there are new mobos which have PCI-E 2.0 slots and support for DDR3 RAM - X38 chipset and P45 chipset. Anyone knows their prices?

A

E8400
MSI P35 Neo or Palt P35A 4.3-4.5K
Even best of DG31 based mobos are in less than 3K
Asus 8600GT 256 MB DDR3 in 2.8-3K, the 512 MB is DDR2, not worth it.
RAM single stick 2GB less than 1600
HDD 250 GB price you quote is good
Cabinet IBall/Zebronics whichever you feel is good for you but make sure the PSU is 400W for minimum
Speaker BXR1121 Altec Lansing in 1.1K
Get lil better TV Tuner card like Leadtek in 2K if you want we can tell you the model. Otherwise buy the Pixelview
19" Viewsonic in 8.8K Dell 198WFP in 9.5K

S

The MSI P35 Neo is for 6k on *www.theitdepot.com/product.php?cat=13&sub_category_id=46&product_id=2764 !!

I think I need to reconsider all the components for more optimization. And I realise the prices here are too high. Though 'here' meaning i know only one wholesale shop in pune.

@acewin does a single 2gb stick work? I had read somewhere that we need to 'balance' the RAM modules.

sagarphadkule said:
I have seen everyone here going for the Corsair, Antec etc SPMS which are for about 3k, 4k etc. But we get an SMPS with the cabinet for just Rs. 400 - 500. So whats so different between these smps and the 3k-4k SMPSes? Even the wattage is comparable.

I'm buying an assembled PC with these components that i have selected:
Will the SMPS that comes with the cabinet (IBall) be able to support that configuration? What should be its wattage for this config? (And how do u calculate it!?)
Also please tell if this configuration is good for mediocre gaming and video conversions.

Component.................Specs..................................Price
CPU.......................Intel C2D 3.0Ghz E8400.............8600
Mobo.....................Intel DG31PR...........................3450
HDD.......................250 GB Serial ATA Seagate........2325
RAM ..... ...............1GB 800 Transcend x 2..............950x2
GFX Card................nVIDIA 512MB 8600GT..............3900
Cabinet..................I box (includes SMPS)...............1300
UPS.......................Champion...............................(have already)
Monitor..................17” TFT monitor LG..................8150
TV Tuner card.........Intex/PixelView.......................~1100
Speakers................Creative Inspire 2.1 ................1750
Firewire card......................................................~300
DVD Writer.........................................................1100

The UPS i have may be of 600VA. Its rating isnt written anywhere but its Model No is written as UPS-600P

hey y u r choosing intel DG31pr mobo its use less -----------> go for msi,asus etc

then in future u ll have to change the mobo

A

MSI ASUS are not chipset, I said DG31 chipset not Intel DG31PR mobo, that mobo is real rubbish.

Do not consider prices from ITDEPOT they good for nothing, check ITWares

Go For This Config

Processor : Intel C2D E8400 3.0GHz - Rs 8600
MotherBoard : MSI P45 Neo - Rs 5900
RAM : Transcend 2 X 1GB DDR2 800MHz - 875*2
HDD : Seagate 250 GB - Rs 2300
GFX Card : Palit 8600GT - Rs 3700
Cabinet : Your Choice
Monitor : DELL 17'' SE178WFP - Rs 8650
TV Tuner card : Intex/PixelView - Rs 1100
Speakers : Altec Lansing 2.1 - 1125

Total 34425/-

bro the default PSU will barely survive the config..... so its better tht u go for a Corsair VX450 costin around 3k-3.2k ..... this PSU will later on also help u in upgrading to a HD4850 .... these PSU's are expensive because they have very high efficiency rating like around 80%+ .... whereas the normal PSU's have a efficiency of barely 50-60% and i mean if u have a gud one ....

S

Ok so i'm changing 2 things and have new doubts about them - motherboard and RAM.

Motherboard:
----------------
I'm trying to decide between MSI P43 Neo-F, MSI P45 Neo-F and MSI P35 Neo Combo-F.
The P45 and P43 have PCI-E x16 v2.0 and P35 doesnt have v2.0
But the P35 has support for DDR3 RAM also in addition to DDR2 while P45 and P43 dont have it.
The Abit IP35A neither has PCI-E v2.0 nor DDR3 RAM support plus its costlier that MSI P35 Neo-F so i'm not thinking of it.

What do u recommend i should go with? Is v2.0 PCI-E better for future upgradability or DDR3 RAM support better? Also does 'PCI-E v2.0 is backward compatible with 1.0' mean PCI-E 1.0 gfx cards will work in a PCI-E 2.0 slot?

links:
MSI P35 Neo Combo-F *www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=P35_Neo_Combo-F&class=mb
MSI P43 Neo-F *global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=170&prod_no=1484
MSI P45 Neo-F *www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=P45_Neo-F&class=mb

RAM:
-----
Will a single 2gb stick work instead of two 1 gb sticks? Coz that will be better to upgrade later.

I

sagarphadkule said:
What do u recommend i should go with? Is v2.0 PCI-E better for future upgradability or DDR3 RAM support better? Also does 'PCI-E v2.0 is backward compatible with 1.0' mean PCI-E 1.0 gfx cards will work in a PCI-E 2.0 slot?

get a MSI P45 neo @6k...don't worry about DDR3 right its very costly right now and those boards with support or for both DDR2 and DDR3 gives various problems ..they are not as stable as other boards so i wouldn't suggest u that ..

DDR3 will do more good to nehalem then present chipset and processors ..so go forPCI 2.0 it will give u about 5~7% improvemnet in present day games and perhaps more in future games as and when they use the bandwidth providied by PCIex 2.0

right now all the gfx card u get are PCiex 2.0 and works fine with PCIev1 or 1.1 ..without any issue..

and yes a PCIe 1.0 card (if u are lucky enough to find one ) will work on PCIe 2.0

RAM:
Will a single 2gb stick work instead of two 1 gb sticks? Coz that will be better to upgrade later.

that will be good idea IMO ..and yes it will work fine present day prices 2GB is the way to go ...

P45 Neo F will be ur best bet here...

^^^^^

lower budget

P43 neo
or
biostar i43 @ 4.5-4.8k

I

comp@ddict said:
^^^^^

lower budget

P43 neo
or
biostar i43 @ 4.5-4.8k

where do u get biostar mobos ??

err market, AFAIK the prices, dunno the shops, but shud be available lol

S

After considering market availability, i decided to go with Intel DG35EC (Rs 4800). So I downloaded its manual. And then i got to know that it doesnt have serial port & parallel port. I checked DP35DP, DG33FB and even DG31PR - none of them have a serial port and a parallel port. the DP35DP doesnt even have a VGA (dsub 15 pin) port to connect a monitor.
(Though serial and parallel ports are outdate for computer peripherals, I need them to program microcontrollers)
Most boards provide a serial header on the board instead of the port directly. How can I use it to add a serial port?

The MSI P45/p43 neo-f has serial port and parallel port but they dont have a VGA port.
So how do i connect a monitor? Do i connect it to the discreet graphics card then?
But all the 17" LCD monitors i have seen need a VGA port while the 8600GT cards i have seen provide a DVI port.

@comp@ddict
I'll give them a try but i believe chances of getting them are very thin. Out of 4-5 shops i enquired, only 1 knew about mobos other than intel.

Okie, well if u're getting a gfx card, then it's sure gonna hav the feaures u're lukin for, so don't be mobo dependent, search for d rite gfx card

S

Suppose by mobo has a VGA port and my graphics card also has it and my LCD monitor connects thru VGA. And suppose a game's video settings gives me an option to select whether to use onboard graphics or the discreet graphics card. Then if i select the discreet graphics card option, do i have to plug in my monitor to the card's VGA port? and also vice-versa?

That will nvr happen^^

S

Er what exactly of it will not happen?
Or in short, what i meant to ask was if i select the graphics card as the renderer in some software, then does my monitor have to be connected to the graphics card port compulsorily instead of the port onboard?

U hav a gfx card connected to mobo and monitor through DVI, aftr that the game wil nvr ask whether u wanna use mobo gfx or discrete gfx.

Just in bios set primary video adapter to auto, tada

R

Then if i select the discreet graphics card option, do i have to plug in my monitor to the card's VGA port? and also vice-versa?

unless you developed one that can have that kind of possibilities...continue on your discovery journey and it is through it that great things are born

S

For motherboards that dont have a VGA port (like MSI P45, P43 neo-f, palit p35a and intel dp35dp), does it mean that they dont have onboard graphics and so we have to compulsorily use discreet graphics card for them?

I

sagarphadkule said:
For motherboards that dont have a VGA port (like MSI P45, P43 neo-f, palit p35a and intel dp35dp), does it mean that they dont have onboard graphics and so we have to compulsorily use discreet graphics card for them?

yes got it right ...

S

Ok so all that boils down to one motherboard - MSI P43 Neo-F as it has serial port, parallel port and pci-e 2.0
Getting it will be a bit problem coz its not readily available here.

Anyway, now another question remains:
I havent seen a single 8600GT graphics card which has a D-Sub VGA port. They all have DVI. And all 17" LCDs (viewsonic, lg, dell, samsung) have D-sub connectors only.
Please could u suggest some solution for this? I have budget for gfx card till around Rs 3800 and monitor around Rs 8200.

I

sagarphadkule said:
Ok so all that boils down to one motherboard - MSI P43 Neo-F as it has serial port, parallel port and pci-e 2.0
Getting it will be a bit problem coz its not readily available here.

Why MSI P43 neo why not MSI P45 neo F ??
it also has everything u said is much better performer and than P43 version ..and its has better availability than P43.

Anyway, now another question remains:
I havent seen a single 8600GT graphics card which has a D-Sub VGA port. They all have DVI. And all 17" LCDs (viewsonic, lg, dell, samsung) have D-sub connectors only.
Please could u suggest some solution for this? I have budget for gfx card till around Rs 3800 and monitor around Rs 8200.

[/QUOTE]

all such card comes with a DVI to VGA adapter so its not a big worry ..

get 8600 GT 256 MB DDR3 ,,make sure u get a DDR3 version..

get viewsonic 1912W 19" LCD for 8.3k

S

Ya i guess p45 has better availability but p43 is cheaper. If p43 isnt available, i'm gonna go with p45 only.
And i compared, p43 has all the same features as p45. But what do u mean by 'p45 is better than p43 in performance'?

Will 256mb ddr3 card be better than 512mb ddr2? Will i be able to play big games like crysis on moderate settings smoothly on it?

S

Finally, I decide this config:

E8400 CPU...............................................................8500
MSI P43 Neo-F..........................................................~5450
250GB SATA Seagate.................................................2325
2GB DDR2 800MHz RAM Transcend................................1550
Palit 9500GT 256mb DDR3...........................................~4250
Cabinet-Any (I'll choose at the shop)............................~1300
17" LCD Viewsonic va1716wb.......................................8000
Keyboard,Mouse........................................................500
LG DVD Writer...........................................................1150
Altec Lansing BXR 1121...............................................1250
Supercomp TV tuner card............................................1200

Total........................................................................35,500 (omg!)

My budget was Rs34000 max. But, well, lets see if i get any discount.

So my question remained unanswered - Will the normal smps that comes with the cabinet support this config? Acc. to *web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php this config needs just 113W and that site recommended a 210W SMPS of a decent brand. For a generic SMPS, it did not give the wattage maybe coz of some javascript error (It said NaN in the textbox).

Buying some good brand smps is suddenly like Rs. 3000 more as compared to Rs.0 for the normal smps as it comes with the cabinet only. How much difference will it make? I've never seen any of my friends getting a separate smps.

Bump!

S

^ sry that was my other account. dint know it was active; i'm on other comp

Anyway, bump. Please answer my question about smps rating. I may be buying the comp in the next week

R

i think it was mentioned in this very post about the diff..
the thing is do you think you will want to buy a proper smps even if people quantify the difference?
just use your "zero cost smps" as you have mentioned...no need to ask people "how much difference when you wont accept it...thats what i found reading the post..tand u turning a blind eye to some post about the smps..and now again ask..

so stick with the zero cost smps since ur friend are running them with no problem and we who spend 6200 bucks to buy the smps are fools

S

I believe you misunderstood what i had to say and/or you did not read this-

sagarphadkule said:
Acc. to *web.aanet.com.au/SnooP/psucalc.php this config needs just 113W and that site recommended a 210W SMPS of a decent brand.

I'm just confused with the ratings. That site suggests just 210W of a decent brand and acc. to Ambar, i should use a 450W corsair smps which is obviously not matching.
(And ofcourse what u said in ur 1st post wasnt of much help - saying 'you pay for what you get..people are not stupid to pay more if it is the same...' doesnt clear anything.)

And if you've not misunderstood me:
I never said I will not buy a good smps even if ppl quantify the difference. I never said ppl who buy smps worth 6200 are fools (you are probably an exception). If ur going to say 'just use your "zero cost smps"....blah blah' then dont reply coz ur not helping at all.

yahhh........they say right think.........I have a just 350Watt IBM PSU..but It can give full efficency...most of the 450 watt PSU writen as 450 watt..but actually give 250watt..so In this case I recommend Corsair 460watt..it gives full o/p...or u can buy Coolermaster PSU............

D

Be ready to smoke your cheap psu with your original config. Literally!!!

R

i think u r the one who did not understand what has been said.

post no 10

amber said:
bro the default PSU will barely survive the config..... so its better tht u go for a Corsair VX450 costin around 3k-3.2k ..... this PSU will later on also help u in upgrading to a HD4850 .... these PSU's are expensive because they have very high efficiency rating like around 80%+ .... whereas the normal PSU's have a efficiency of barely 50-60% and i mean if u have a gud one

sagarphadkule said:
And if you've not misunderstood me:
I never said I will not buy a good smps even if ppl quantify the difference. I never said ppl who buy smps worth 6200 are fools (you are probably an exception). If ur going to say 'just use your "zero cost smps"....blah blah' then dont reply coz ur not helping at all.

misunderstood? me? oh yeah i misunderstood ur zero cost smps!
did i say you said it?
it can be construed from your post, you want a pant tailor made to the micro millimeters which not only stick to ur legs but also squeeze it.

most good power supply gives >=80% efficiency at least as amber has posted..
so 450W = 360W at least..it could be more given the operation environment
and it is better to have some breathing space in respect of the wattage. one can go for a tight fitting pants made with good quality textile which completely engulf your legs and all..it will give discomfort as it will not have the minimum breathing space..but the pants will not break away despite that...but with the passage of time it will..harm ur bodies...and the pants will break ultimately
consider the same pants with lower quality textile..it will harm the body and break itself within a few time periods.

with the passage of time and depending upon usage.the smps components also aged like we do..and so efficiency will decline faster if it is stressed so much more than those which is not stressed as hard.
when it is zero cost one..then it aged even faster when stressed..

i hope it becomes clearer

S

Well, ok i dont like to argue more. Thanks for the reply anyway.
I read on some forums (maybe techtree) about checking the 12v1 rail for more than enough amperage if one were to buy a budget smps. I think i'll buy one that way (probably powersafe or vip) as 3k is stretching too much beyond my budget.
Thanks for all the replies.