The ISEET Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion on the proposed New single entrance Exam pattern for Entrance into Engineering Colleges.

Apparently, the probability of this pattern being implemented from the next year are very high. The proposed name is ISEET - Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test.

ISEET 2013 : Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test

1. Combined entrance exam in place of IIT JEE & AIEEE

2. ISEET will have two parts, Main and Advance, each of three hours duration. Both tests will be given on the same day; between 10 am and 5 pm. ISEET 2013 will be held in either March or April.

ISEET Main will be an objective type exam, and will test comprehension, critical thinking and logical reasoning. ISEET Advance will test problem-solving ability in basic science subjects. The two tests together will indicate a candidate's scholastic level and aptitude for science and engineering.

A student's performance in the Class 12 Board exam will be considered, with a weight not be less than 40 per cent of the total score. The combined weightage for ISEET Main and Advance will not be more than 60 per cent; however, the weightage given to Board scores can go up to 100 per cent.

It is for the individual educational institutions or the state government to decide on the weightage to be accorded to the scores in Class-XII, main and advance examination

3.The entrance test, to be conducted next year, will cover 15 Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), 30 National Institutes of Technology (NITs), four Indian Institutes of Information Technology (IIITs), five Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research (IISERs) and few deemed universities which come under the purview of the HRD Ministry.Engineering colleges which take AIEEE score at present would take ISEET

Info Collected From Miscellaneous Sites:

No JEE, No AIEEE, the new test on the block is Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test or (ISEET). Yes, that’s the new name for coveted JEE and AIEEE test which is conducted every year for admission into premium engineering colleges in the country.

For all the students who will be appearing for ISEET (Indian Science Engineering Eligibility test) in 2013, should know the following details about the exam:

1.In the first phase the examination will be conducted for admission into 15 IIT’s, 30 NIT’s(National Institute of technology ), 5 Indian Institute of Science education & Research, 4 IIIT’s, Indian Institute of science, Bangalore, Indian Institute of Engineering Science and Technology, Shibpur & North East Regional Institute of Science and Technology, Itanagar.
2.In the second phase which is in 2014, it is expected that the examination will be conducted for admission into all professional courses in engineering and science.
3.The ISEET test will be conducted twice in a year (April/May) and (November/December), which will allow candidates to get familiar with the exam pattern.
4.The ISEET sample papers will be made available on public domain by July 2012.

It is expected that the change of exam pattern will reduce pressure on students. The new pattern also gives 40% weight to board exam result which brings schools in the forefront pushing back the overt reliance on coaching institutes.

Right now students who wish to pursue engineering at undergraduate level have to take multiple entrance exams. This leads to a lot of burden on students in terms of the money, stress and time involved. Single entrance exam will be convenient as students no longer have to enquire, buy or fill forms for different exams.

At the moment the reaction from students and teachers is a mixed one. Some say that it will reduce stress on the students while others argue that the change in pattern will dilute the quality of students getting into the IIT’s, which is known for its brand and name. Right now it’s too early to judge the situation. Time will only tell if the change is for good or for the worse.

Source

The successor to the JEE and AIEEE — for long the gateways to India’s top engineering colleges including the IITs — will be called ISEET, the Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test.

As reported by The Indian Express on January 31, the new, SAT-style exam comes into force in 2013. It will do away with multiple entrance examinations and reduce the stress levels of students.

ISEET will have two parts, Main and Advance, each of three hours duration. Both tests will be given on the same day, between 10 am and 5 pm. ISEET 2013 will be held in either March or April.

ISEET Main will be an objective type exam, and will test comprehension, critical thinking and logical reasoning. ISEET Advance will test problem-solving ability in basic science subjects. The two tests together will indicate a candidate’s scholastic level and aptitude for science and engineering.

A student’s performance in the Class 12 Board exam will be considered, with a weight not be less than 40 per cent of the total score. The combined weightage for ISEET Main and Advance will not be more than 60 per cent; however, the weightage given to Board scores can go up to 100 per cent.

Each state government or institute will be able to decide the specific weight it gives to Board, Main and Advance exam scores. A committee headed by Dr T Ramasami, secretary in the Department of Science & Technology, has demonstrated with the help of the Indian Statistical Institute that school scores across various Boards can be normalized through a statistical process.

ISEET will be conducted by CBSE. Further modalities will be worked out by an academic group headed by the director of IIT, Kanpur.

Source

Miscellaneous Images

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Latest News: A final decision is likely to be taken in the forthcoming conference of State Education Ministers which is likely to take place on February 22, 2012.

My Opinion: Normalizing 12th Board Marks across the country is a big challenge. It will result in Biases. Weightage should not be given to 12th class marks at all. That's the only change I want. Other than that, the proposed system is completely fair.

This pattern, if implemented, will surely lower the standards of Indian Institutes of Technology.

Not perfect, but better than coaching wankfest.

Standard of Indian "engineering" education is well known.

hmm, tbqh, since I got into a college, I think I don't care about it anymore.

whats wrong with the inclusion of Board marks weightage ?

thatsashok said:
whats wrong with the inclusion of Board marks weightage ?

Different boards. Different syllabus. Different marking schemes.

yeah ... i forgot that almost.

But there was a proposal for uniform syllabus throughout nation. What happened to it ?

i guess they should implement that before ISEET

Atleast it should not be implememented for next year, students in 11 & 12 who have joined coaching and private school will really suffer, even i done preparation in coaching & we havent done english or computer studies, we studied all by ourselves + objective approach of ans = subjective dabba gol and low marks and therefore even with good marks in competitive exam you dont get admission....

i will appear in 2013. and it seems all experimentation is happening with our batch. first board was lifted now this?

also it seems last year 10 lakh stidents appeared AIEEE.
if this gets implemented what will happen to students like me. we compete against droppers even who do only entrance focussed study. lets see wht happens

40% weightage on board marks? That's just cr@p, its not standardized, different boards give different marks, the education minister should be thrown into a sea infested with sharks

We have schools in India where teachers themselves help students cheat exams. This system will further encourage such malpractices.

thetechfreak said:
i will appear in 2013. and it seems all experimentation is happening with our batch. first board was lifted now this?

Damn True!

The education system is becoming retarded like the us, in no time our students will become dull like americans, oh wait..........!!

tkin said:
The education system is becoming retarded like the us, in no time our students will become dull like americans, oh wait..........!!

Not sure if serious. Or am I missing the sarcasm tags? Kindly clarify.

ico said:
Not sure if serious. Or am I missing the sarcasm tags? Kindly clarify.

Meh, sarcasm.

But honestly this is really stupid, syllabus is different, question pattern different, marking system is different(when I gave 10th standard exam from wb board, the highest we got in arts subject were in 70s and mostly in the 60s, while students in ICSE got 90+ atleast, also we did not have part marking in maths), since the board exam is theoretical teachers will give different marks(suppose some teacher's wife ran away :mrgreen:

, no matter how ideal the teacher is, it will reflect in the answer sheets checked by him) and other issues, either change all exams to objective type, or do NOT use board marks.

A

tkin said:
40% weightage on board marks? That's just cr@p, its not standardized, different boards give different marks, the education minister should be thrown into a sea infested with sharks

This can be remedied by the following action: The board exam marks will only be taken into account if a person is applying for an institute in the same state as the board from which the candidate has passed. For out-of-state admissions, the board exam factor can be removed completely.

This solution will solve both issues because most students will prefer to study nearer to their homes and thus will give more attention to their board exams.

The only con is that in this case two separate scores will have to be calculated: one for the state and one for out-of-state, just like the current AIEEE.

But I'm sure a minister is having a laugh reading this suggestion of mine.

My thoughts are quoted below:

I said it then and I'm saying it again: These exams simply do not test aptitude. You cannot test "comprehension, critical thinking and logical reasoning" using objective type questions, because the human mind has infinite ways of thinking. Should I be forced to subscribe to one of four defined schools of thought as put forth in the paper? I'll give you just a few examples:

Newton would have been a failure at science if he had to decide the laws of motion based on multiple choice. "Band theory of solids" can be explained as a combination of atomic orbitals (physics) or by molecular orbital theory (chemistry). If I am approaching the problem as a physicist or chemist (since in this case, I can do both with some difficulty!), do I write my answer down on multiple choice? It's entirely possible that I am unable to answer the question satisfactorily because I have analyzed it as a chemist and the question has been put by a physicist and vice versa (This is, in fact, quite relevant in a field like thermodynamics - the analysis of a system and surroundings make different assumptions between physics and chemistry. Minor differences if you look at it, but enough to change an answer due to a difference in assumption).

(For the record: Molecular orbital can be defined as a linear or nonlinear combination of atomic orbitals. Chemical Engineering/Physical Chemistry fundamentals, and no, I'm not a Chemical Engineer).

It is important to note that an exam that strives to seek scientific aptitude must never penalize the student who thinks of the alternatives. Every entrance exam so far however has been guilty of doing this.

"Problem-solving ability" should take a distinct second seat to understanding the fundamentals, because in engineering, the practical thing that any engineer does is approximate. Nobody will calculate pi upto the nth digit or learn by rote every formula of integration (why do you think numerical methods were developed anyway?). It would not matter that you know the nth order integration if you are not knowing why this is required and what this is.

I think this exam does give less emphasis to problem solving than previous tests, but I feel that it is far more important to gauge how a candidate thinks rather than what are his answers.

My opinion is that some sections of this exam need to be made subjective type, or else it will penalize many hardworking, thinking students and thus will have direct impact on the quality of students entering these institutions.

I have no blog, no avenue to let these thoughts out and this is the only place I will be posting this. I'm not sure if anyone is reading carefully, but if you are, then thank you for your time in reading this lengthy post, and I hope someone will take my concerns into consideration.

For my fellow forum members, if you feel there's substance in my thoughts, then please do your bit and try to spread it around. I will be grateful.

AcceleratorX said:
This can be remedied by the following action: The board exam marks will only be taken into account if a person is applying for an institute in the same state as the board from which the candidate has passed. For out-of-state admissions, the board exam factor can be removed completely.

This solution will solve both issues because most students will prefer to study nearer to their homes and thus will give more attention to their board exams.

The only con is that in this case two separate scores will have to be calculated: one for the state and one for out-of-state, just like the current AIEEE.

But I'm sure a minister is having a laugh reading this suggestion of mine.

This creates one problem, what about ISCE and CBSE, these are all indian boards.

A

tkin said:
This creates one problem, what about ISCE and CBSE, these are all indian boards.

You are right in that this creates a problem for those boards. Perhaps the government can

1) Offer these students a reduced cutoff under all india quota like how they do for MBA admissions for candidates with work experience in order to compensate since these candidates will have no other option but to get enrolled in all India quota.

2) Allow these candidates' board scores to be factored in as the only board scores for the central universities of India, thus giving them an incentive.

The IITs/NITs are unlikely to place too much emphasis on board exam scores anyway, so there should be little bias for those institutes.

That way it's a win-win for almost everyone, but the fact is that you will never be able to satisfy 100% of the population. So the big gamble will be for the parents: Give your child a better shot for admission within the state, or a slightly better chance for a shot at a central university.

tkin said:
But honestly this is really stupid, syllabus is different, question pattern different, marking system is different(when I gave 10th standard exam from wb board, the highest we got in arts subject were in 70s and mostly in the 60s, while students in ICSE got 90+ atleast, also we did not have part marking in maths).

This problem can be solved through percentile system.

tkin said:
since the board exam is theoretical teachers will give different marks(suppose some teacher's wife ran away , no matter how ideal the teacher is, it will reflect in the answer sheets checked by him) and other issues, either change all exams to objective type, or do NOT use board marks.

I don't think there's any solution for this thing. :mrgreen:

Curse your luck if you don't get good marks.

KDroid said:
This problem can be solved through percentile system.

I don't think there's any solution for this thing. Curse your luck if you don't get good marks.

So now we are getting a seat in IITs by luck huh?? Why don't they just use a lottery system all together.

PS: Its used by a lot of schools kolkata(government), no merit test, just pure luck :-x

So I didn't get a chance to join 4-5 government schools(free), and had to join a private school(not that I complain, its one of the best schools here, but it cot me 6k per year in fees), all of us paying taxes, then why this lottery di?

^^ Unfair.

Indian Engineering is not at all research oriented. People want to join IITs because they'll get good salary packages. Hardly anyone really wants to get into research.

With several States opposed to single entrance test examination for admission to engineering colleges, the State Education Ministers’ meet on Wednesday could see fireworks on the issue. States like West Bengal and Tamil Nadu are likely to oppose the measures.

Expressing confidence that the differences will be sorted out amicably in the meet, HRD Minister Kapil Sibal said that 11 education boards across the country have already supported the move. “The rest will be taken on board during the meeting,” he said.

The Minister said that the Government would soon write to other education boards for their views. The proposed entrance test called the Indian Science - Engineering Eligibility Test (ISEET), is expected to be conducted in April/May in 2013. It will be in two parts — ISEET main and advance. As per the proposal, examinations will be of three-hour duration each and will both be held on the same day. Allaying the apprehensions of the experts, Sibal clarified that the main issue of “standardisation” of the Class XII marks across the boards has been settled by a formula devised by the Indian Statistical Institute. It has taken into account the results of the last five years and has come out with specific figures.

On the issue of disagreement of certain southern States as Tamil Nadu, the Minister quipped, “They are not averse. There was unanimity at the meeting of Central Advisory Board of Education committee and the States need to be persuaded and explained on the modus operandi of standardisation. In fact, this would give more representation to States in the IIT system,” he added.

Source

All students of IIT DELHI along with professors and alumnus protested against the scrapping of IIT-JEE and inclusion of 40% board marks in the new common entrance exam proposed by MHRD for all centrally funded engineering institutions. The protest was in the form of a CANDLE LIGHT MARCH which was attended by big crowds of students, the professors and the alumni of IIT DELHI. The protest was initiated by a group discussion among the students, professors and the alumni. The rally went through the whole campus. The students took pledge that if such policy is passed to ruin the education system of India, then thousands of students from all the IITs will go on Hunger Strike and will protest until the policy is withdrawn. Conclusion of the meeting was as follows:

1. The coaching business is going to increase.
2. The stress level on the students is going to increase significantly.
3. There is going to be fee hike in the private schools.
4. The rote learning and mugging tendency of the students is going to increase.
5. Students will enter with no fundamental and conceptual understanding of the subject which will create great difficulty for such students to adapt themselves in the system of IIT.
6. Standard of IIT is going to fall drastically.
7. There will be a kind of Board wise Reservation which will be an injustice with many students.

A

I agree with all the points, but I also make the following notes regarding various points given by the meet:

1) If my method is followed above, the coaching business can be dealt a body blow, because if some questions are subjective and 200 students have similar answers with similar wording and lines of thinking, they can all be eliminated.
2) Stress levels were always going to increase. There's no going around it, it is a result of overpopulation and societal expectations. Going forward, I think expectations are going to change because there will be a lot more failure stories than success stories.
3) Fee hikes will always be around, but perhaps these institutes will try harder to induct quality teaching seeing how the game has reached another level now.
4) This will always increase. Our system has actively encouraged rote learning since the British Raj - it's virtually in our genes now! Kids today are so "smart", some can remember 300 pages off Resnick and Halliday (true story).
5) I'm sure the faculty of IITs will adapt their teaching methods to counter some changing trends. Times change and people will change with them.

I know that IIT's faculty are among the best in the country (in some cases, even internationally), I have a good amount of respect for them. And I am very sure they will adapt to the changing times.

6) I wasn't convinced to begin with, but to understand why this is happening, a little history is required. IITs, IISc, IISER, etc. were founded to give a chance for studies to young, intelligent, well-deserving, apt candidates. In those days the tests were simplistic and selection was more based on the qualities of the candidate himself rather than just scientific acumen.

As time evolved, these institutes became recruitment centers, where they select candidates based on how much he's got on a paper and where they make you grow up a ladder until you come off as a shining, polished product. These candidates are still good, flashy, smart, intelligent, highly qualified and hardworking. The problem is that they're too "targeted" now, too "commercial". And somewhere inside the old "shine" got lost (Note that the first IITians never started at a flashy job like today's graduates).

I would not worry about this change as this will never affect the placement or the reputation of the IITs (because these candidates are very intelligent and very successful). However, the purpose of selection has been lost forever.

A little note: I have no disrespect for IITians. You have seen that I say both good and bad things about them because those are my honest opinions.

What I always try to convey is: You see the IITians of today, and those from a while back, and you will definitely observe a difference between them. I have.

I know about these types that gobble down entire books, but when it comes down to thinking out of the box they fall behind, I have a good example, during accenture Aptitude test, we, the average students(7/8 pointers) got in while a lot of 9 pointers couldn't clear it.

If ISEET is applied, these idiots will get a chance.

One more thing, sometimes if someone does not perform good in IIT entrance he can take it next year after a lot of hard work and studying, ISEET entirely defeats this due to inclusion of board marks which will be fixed for your life.

tkin said:
I know about these types that gobble down entire books, but when it comes down to thinking out of the box they fall behind, I have a good example, during accenture Aptitude test, we, the average students(7/8 pointers) got in while a lot of 9 pointers couldn't clear it.

If ISEET is applied, these idiots will get a chance.

One more thing, sometimes if someone does not perform good in IIT entrance he can take it next year after a lot of hard work and studying, ISEET entirely defeats this due to inclusion of board marks which will be fixed for your life.

Totally Agree with every word.

Press Information Bureau English Releases

dont know why indian gov does these kind of big experiment... why dont they do things step by step¿¿¿
the gov tries to imply everything at once rather than thinking on it first and doing things step by step...

P

All you people who think this will reduce the quality of students entering iit think again. I feel this will do much good because now people who have some logical thinking capability will now enter instead of some rote experts. people with proper communication skills will enter.

pamitm said:
All you people who think this will reduce the quality of students entering iit think again. I feel this will do much good because now people who have some logical thinking capability will now enter instead of some rote experts. people with proper communication skills will enter.

Yes, someone who can speak good english should enter IIT, and they will go on to become sales managers, oh, wait...........

People who have good logical thinking get good marks in objective type questions, people who does not have even one ounce of logical reasoning ability but can gobble down entire books and vomit them out do good in theory exams(board), guess who should enter IITs?

Another example, my friend got an 18 rank in WBJEE, 99 in AIEEE but his marks in 12th was mediocre at best(bengali impaled him).

If this is to be applied only take int consideration science marks.

A

Like I said, the optimal method is to introduce conceptually oriented subjective type questions. Note that I said conceptually oriented, because normal subjective type questions will benefit only rote learners.

Conceptually oriented questions should revolve around applications of theories, logical conclusions on a test case scenario using some theorem, sum solving and multidisciplinary questions (get rid of the separate physics/chem/maths sections and mix them all up: make questions that force you to use all three to some or the other extent).

As for English, I think language proficiency is important but only to some extent. So, the marks of the candidate in English/Hindi/Bengali, etc. should not matter once it is beyond a specific threshold (let's keep that at something like 60 marks, not so hard to get and not too easy either). Once this minimum threshold is reached, only science marks must matter.

ISEET renamed back to IIT JEE, pattern of the examination will be new

because of legal problems.

AcceleratorX said:
Conceptually oriented questions should revolve around applications of theories, logical conclusions on a test case scenario using some theorem, sum solving and multidisciplinary questions (get rid of the separate physics/chem/maths sections and mix them all up: make questions that force you to use all three to some or the other extent).

__

Why does one need to study Physics & chemistry if he wants to be a coder in India? Unfair.

You are suggesting to make questions that use all of the three. I appreciate it.

What if a particular person is very good at Mathematics, but not at Physics & Chemistry. In current scenario he can get good marks in Maths & manage to get average marks in Phy. & Chem. But in the suggested pattern, his performance will fall.

A

KDroid said:
Why does one need to study Physics & chemistry if he wants to be a coder in India? Unfair.

Regarding usage of PCM score for computer courses: Yes, that is a little unfair. However, as all candidates cannot be assumed to have studied something related to computers beforehand (i.e. till 12th), these PCM marks get considered for the sake of "equal opportunity". I think a lot of people don't agree but I'm not seeing a better solution here.

KDroid said:
What if a particular person is very good at Mathematics, but not at Physics & Chemistry. In current scenario he can get good marks in Maths & manage to get average marks in Phy. & Chem. But in the suggested pattern, his performance will fall.

Actually, I think it will actually work to their favour rather than not. A candidate who has good concepts in even one of the three subjects will be able to think along the lines of the question and hence answer it as per his respective subject.

For e.g. if I give a question to calculate a gradient for a potential function represented by a vector U. The gradient is a very simple derivative in 3 dimensions.

Now let's add some physics to the question: Make that potential an electric potential. Let there be a space and a point at which a force is acting.

For a person strong in physics: This is a question in electromagnetics.
For a person strong in mathematics: This is a question in vectors and vector derivatives.

One way or another, the numerical value of the answer will be the same. The person strong in maths will call it a function, the person strong in physics will call it work done or gradient, etc.

I think there's a real chance for this method to work, and most importantly, since such questions will involve the real-world applications, coaching classes will have less of an effect. Thus, a really brilliant student will shine.

P

tkin said:
Yes, someone who can speak good english should enter IIT, and they will go on to become sales managers, oh, wait...........

People who have good logical thinking get good marks in objective type questions, people who does not have even one ounce of logical reasoning ability but can gobble down entire books and vomit them out do good in theory exams(board), guess who should enter IITs?

Another example, my friend got an 18 rank in WBJEE, 99 in AIEEE but his marks in 12th was mediocre at best(bengali impaled him).

If this is to be applied only take int consideration science marks.

Well tkin if you look at some boards like isc where roting gets you nowhere. so roting for board exams is only for some boards. also this will reduce in less dependence on coaching classes. and remember the weightage it is 40% for the theoritical "roting" exams. This is a welcome change for people who dont like "mugging" for iitjee as is tought in coaching classes.
And about the english speaking skills, people join iit's & nit's not to learn something new or because they like engineering or research but for getting a good package after the pass out. So communication skills are the real differentiators here.think about the alumnis from iit. who amongst them is known for research. among the most famous ones is chetan bhagat who is not even close to engineering anymore. so iits= good pay package. and for keeping it companies on to pyou need to know english. otherwise iit pass out is as good as any other worker on the line.

P

tkin said:
The education system is becoming retarded like the us, in no time our students will become dull like americans, oh wait..........!!

Calling the education system in US retarded is a retarded thing to do. the teaching style in the us makes studying a joyous process. Also the topics tought are far more advanced than in India. In the US the start right up from the basics and make even the toughest concepts feel like a breeze.infact if any problem exists it is in india part of wich gets rectified by iseet.

economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/services/education/hrd-ministry-reaches-out-to-iits-to-clear-doubts-on-iseet/articleshow/12540647.cms

Guys the question remains.
1. Is the new 40% scheme implemented? School claims it already has been
2. Seeing lack of activity is it safe to say that 2013 will have both entrances separately?

M

the second one needs an answer urgently...

i also do think same..
the iit's have already said that iseet in 2013 is possible only with minor changes , and this is not to be considered as any minor change..

^^ are an aspirant ??

Yes. Got to class 12 recently. Will be appearing my boards and other exams next year. It seems there is nothing concrete with both my questions. Pretty sure noting has changed?

There are minimal chances of this system getting implemented in 2013. I recently read somewhere that the meeting between the HRD & IIT professors ended with no result. HRD said that they will form new commitee. IITs also said that they will come up with a new pattern for single entrance. I also read that the meeting of IIT profs regarding the new pattern got postponed from 23 April to somewhere in June. Have been following this closely.

Will post proper links when I'm on PC.

ico said:
Not perfect, but better than coaching wankfest.

It won't put an end to coaching 'wankfest' at all.

In my opinion since everything is still in discussion process this is not happening next year. Period.
And no coachings wont close down after this gets implemented

M

^^ exactly man..
ikjactli
hehehe

cuz when they have wasted so much time on the iseet discussion , and the iits finally ignoring it.. as if a student goes to the princi and tells " sir , the hindi teacher sucks , get him out of the school" or , "what about 10 maths papers instead of the hindi one ??"

in fact , i'have thought of the second one many times..
its great ..
dont ya think ?

a simple solution is :
1. Get all the schools into the cbse curriculum within 1.5 years. (as half year is already lost now..).
so the level of all the students will be increased. and then the competitive exams will select the bestest minds of the best
this is to be done step by step :

steps are :
1. Order the boards to start cbse curriculum with the year starting 2013
2. the students will surely get adjusted with the cbse syllabus within 1.5 years
3. so the final exams in the year 2013 (end) should be fully cbse oriented
4. done.

2. Untill then the students with the old syllabus (board wise syllabus) can get into any institutions as of now..

3. and as the cbse curriculum is all over india from the session starting 2014 , implement the ISEET.
until then they will have the time to do some good changes with the ISEET like the ones suggested in the thread (some of 'em are just awsum and will increase the student's minds greatly)

NOTE : this all looks very good to us untill I/(most of you) think about the fact that if the government had wanted to do any good , it would have done it far before.
There are lots of great minds in the govt today also.
they keep making great mechanisms for the development of the country and its studs. but.
"MOST OF US WILL NOT GET THE CHANCE TO SEE THIS CHANGE"

reread the last line..

A

The issue is very simple, every change is influenced by the thought of "will my son/daughter be able to cope with this". This is why change is slow and filled with resistance, because everyone fears for the future of their children.

Unfortunately the entire country's future is at stake when such decisions are to be made, thus your own children shouldn't be the only defining factor.

Side note: There is no such thing as "bestest of the best". Being a student involves more than just the knowledge. Your discipline, behaviour and overall conduct matter and should be a part of the admission/interview, especially for postgraduate degrees.

A test can never objectively determine who is the best because you have too many random variables: backgrounds, preparation specifics, ability to make sense of what is being taught, etc.

Thus, it is wrong to say that a test will select the best minds, because a good mind should be balanced in all respects, not just specific subject knowledge. What's best also differs depending on whose opinion you take.

For example, I may score very well and consistently come in the top 10 ranks in my degree, yet in my own opinion my friend with 50% marks and KTs to boot has more aptitude, skill and interest in building devices and machines than me. But the test says I'm the better mind. Who will agree?

Where do you draw the line then?

mastercool8695 said:
^^ exactly man..
ikjactli
hehehe

cuz when they have wasted so much time on the iseet discussion , and the iits finally ignoring it.. as if a student goes to the princi and tells " sir , the hindi teacher sucks , get him out of the school" or , "what about 10 maths papers instead of the hindi one ??"

in fact , i'have thought of the second one many times..
its great ..
dont ya think ?

a simple solution is :
1. Get all the schools into the cbse curriculum within 1.5 years. (as half year is already lost now..).
so the level of all the students will be increased. and then the competitive exams will select the bestest minds of the best
this is to be done step by step :

steps are :
1. Order the boards to start cbse curriculum with the year starting 2013
2. the students will surely get adjusted with the cbse syllabus within 1.5 years
3. so the final exams in the year 2013 (end) should be fully cbse oriented
4. done.

2. Untill then the students with the old syllabus (board wise syllabus) can get into any institutions as of now..

3. and as the cbse curriculum is all over india from the session starting 2014 , implement the ISEET.
until then they will have the time to do some good changes with the ISEET like the ones suggested in the thread (some of 'em are just awsum and will increase the student's minds greatly)

NOTE : this all looks very good to us untill I/(most of you) think about the fact that if the government had wanted to do any good , it would have done it far before.
There are lots of great minds in the govt today also.
they keep making great mechanisms for the development of the country and its studs. but.
"MOST OF US WILL NOT GET THE CHANCE TO SEE THIS CHANGE"

reread the last line..

There are big holes in your suggestions. Don't have time to point 'em out now. Will do that tomorrow!

M

^^ must be buddy.. cuz they are not from any Education Planner.. they come out of just a 12th standard guy who thinks that it would have been much good if the curriculum would have been same all over india.
an all - india unity curriculum will make all the students on par atleast in the case of syllabus.

@Accelerator X : buddy , what you are saying is correct.
i'was just hinting that the overall study level of indian students may go up as a result of the reforms..
the 'best' was to say that all the students may achieve a level of mind which we contemporarily call "the best". or atleast better..

thanks for pointing out the holes.. i was just typing what i think should be the reforms.

one more thing i wanna say. and please spread this to all you know. it would do better for the whole world (not just the nation..)

"PLEASE CHOOSE ONLY THAT THING IN WHICH YOU ARE INTERESTED."

just taking up science because one's family background is in science or their parents tell them to be an engineer or a doc.
its devastating for your life , as well as for the whole country indirectly.
suppose a person takes up science but his aim is to do an mba and work in a multinational firm and be a money making machine for 10 years.. (this is just an example . there are more than 1000 combinations that a student can have)
why are you wasting the Entrance seat ??

this came to my mind as a result of Accelerator X 's comment..

of all the iitians and aieee-ians i'hv ever heard of , 90 % have done MBA just because they were forced to iit by ther parents / family

the persont who do Mba after IIT , what makes you do that ??
you are thinking of science for 4 years and then go to a management school and end up wasting:
1. 4 years of your life
2. one seat in the engineering college. which a science enthusiast would have taken but couldn't just because he /she was not good at getting marks (but was ofcourse Grreat with their minds)
3. 4 years fees paid by their guardians (its not a small amount)

for the entrance exam :
i vote for one objective + one theory(concept tester) + interview method

the theory papers will be checked only if the student has got good marks in the objective paper

and rankings will be published more than the current ones. (more rankings means that the students who have good minds but dont have good marks - obtaining skills will also get a chance..)

the interviews will decide whether the candidate is allowed for admission or not..

This thing just got real. New Common Engineering Examination

I am okay with it.

well its our batch where all “experimentation“ is done. 40% board marks?
Time will only tell whether this is a good or bad step. Guess its time to get very serious now.....

KDroid said:
This thing just got real. New Common Engineering Examination

I am okay with it.

MAn what about the student who give class 12 this year not thinking about all this !! this is not fair to them

^^ They can again give 12th Board Exams next year.

No more dropper system it is. as far as I have understood the news, anyone who wants to repeat has to appear the boards too next year.

thetechfreak said:
No more dropper system it is. as far as I have understood the news, anyone who wants to repeat has to appear the boards too next year.

Anyone who wants to improve his board score can sit for the boards exam again. Not Compulsory.

a great comment from hindustan times site-

I would request Mr sibal and IIT directors to intimate the hindustani public the following:-
1. How will they remove the subjectivity in checking of CBSE class 12 papers. I understand that the question papers are checked manually by a large No of teachers across the country.
2. how will they ensure uniform system of marking by the teachers as even 1 mark can vary the percentile (which is going to be with 9 decimal points).
3. how will they ensure that cheating is not resorted to in schools specially in UP, Bihar and other states.

4. What will happen to a student if he is not able to take that ONE SINGLE EXAM (Mr Sibal's favourite) due to illness/any other reason.

There are so many more ifs and buts? but who will care ?

Why this could not be implemented from 2014 with discussion on various issues. 2012 pass out would have continued with same pattern for 2013 exams as well and students presently in class 12 would have in any case forced to do well in CBSE as they would have known that the new system will be applicable wef 2014 (their time for second chance).

It is already may month and still in the news it is given that modalities of JEE advance exam will be decided by IIT council. When will they decide> How much more time will they take to just decide? Do they care for students who are going to appear in 2013?

And above all, will it reduce the stress on the students and shut down the coaching industry which Mr Sibal think (may be he is the only one who thinks so). A big NO.

Are not students a stake holder in all this? Who has asked the students and parents?

Why it is only Mr Sibal who is pursuing this agenda?

What would have been lost if the system was made applicable wef 2014. NOTHING.

this - Hindustan Times

Don’t mess with IIT excellence - Chetan Bhagat

A

The ISEET is not helping matters, nor will it bring a drop to the quality of IITs. Students will adapt once they get admission, but the fact is that the really deserving students are not getting into IITs - not then and not now with the ISEET.

A

Arey main to gaya..I was hoping to crack IIT-JEE next year but my school teachers r so furious at me (don't know y) that they won't give marks in practicals.Somebody get Supreme Court's stay order on this fast!!!!!! :evil:

M

one more point (which is a high level corruption accelerator..) :-
corruption is gonna increase if this CET is applied
the sons of the rich will get admission very easily.
the GOVT IS THE BLACK BRITISH.
none else.

They are planning to make JEE Advanced subjective. :/

I think this subjective thing is pretty much confirmed. Various teachers are now emphasizing on doing well in the subjective. I think its made things a wee bit more harder for IIT aspirants.

T

^ agreed

Change is here. And its for the worse IMO

*i.imgur.com/onEIC.jpg

T

This new rule had been there since 2-3 weeks.
Any assassin in here ? I want kapil sibbal assassinated.

A

mastercool8695 said:
one more point (which is a high level corruption accelerator..) :-
corruption is gonna increase if this CET is applied
the sons of the rich will get admission very easily.
the GOVT IS THE BLACK BRITISH.
none else.

The government has no idea on how to conduct any exam. The British (in 1920-1947) were far more organized and gave studious people a number of chances to excel. All this system does is try and reduce their load rather than helping the students.

And BTW, they need to get rid of the objective paper and use only a subjective paper. Emphasis on board exams was IMO unnecessary, especially the 20 percentile limit.

AcceleratorX said:
The government has no idea on how to conduct any exam. The British (in 1920-1947) were far more organized and gave studious people a number of chances to excel. All this system does is try and reduce their load rather than helping the students.

And BTW, they need to get rid of the objective paper and use only a subjective paper. Emphasis on board exams was IMO unnecessary, especially the 20 percentile limit.

+1

btw, they're going to make JEE Advanced Subjective from next year. However, it's almost impossible to conduct JEE Mains Subjective (12 lac aspirants).

A

When you fail at the first step, there's little point in the second step. There is no alternative: even if there are 100 lakh aspirants the only way forward is a subjective paper. They should hire appropriate staff and/or systems. If they are unwilling to do it, it points to their laziness and lack of interest to find talent.

AcceleratorX said:
When you fail at the first step, there's little point in the second step.

Makes no sense to me.

Registration for JEE Mains have started. I just registered for Offline Exam. So any aspirants appearing next year, register now

I registered for online exam.. Good luck bud

I too registered for online. Good luck brothers.

To all who appeared paper based exam:

How was it? What do you think of the paper?

I have messed up; made many silly mistakes :cry:

Mine is on 25th.. wish me luck

Mine is on 23rd