The Mutual Funds Investment Thread

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What is a Mutual Fund?

A mutual fund is a kind of investment that uses money from many investors to invest in stocks. It is professionally managed by a Fund Manager who does his independent research and decide where the investment should be made. When a lot of shares are available on stock exchanges, you and me don’t know which companies to invest in. But let us say a guy named Investmentwala knows, and keeps track of the market daily. So we give him our money and he buys and sells stocks for us. This is a mutual fund – it’s our money (mutual), and Investmentwala is a Fund Manager.

Advantages:

Professional management.: Qualified professionals manage your money, but they are not alone. They have a research team that continuously analyses the performance and prospects of companies.
Diversification: You get the benefit of diversification when you invest through MF schemes. You get diversification across all sectors and also among different stocks listed in the share market.
Affordability: Ability to participate in investments that may be available only to larger investors.
Liquidity: you are able to sell your mutual funds in a short period of time without there being much difference between the sale price and the most current market value.
Tax Benefits: Equity Linked Savings Scheme (ELSS) Mutual Fund class is completely tax free upto the limit of your Section 80C Tax Deduction.

Disadvantages:
No Major Disadvantage

Major AMC/Fund Houses in India:

HDFC
SBI
ICICI
Reliance MF
Sundaram Finance
Birla Sun Life
DSP Black Rock
Franklin Templeton
IDFC

Types of Mutual Funds and my views on it:

Equity: Main Wealth Generation Product. High Risk, High Return.
Tax Saving: Useful for saving up Tax under Section 80C
Debt Funds: Less Risky, Good Returns. Marginally Higher Returns than to FD, PPF.
Gold: For Diversification.
Balanced Funds: Balanced Funds is a mixture of Stocks and Bonds. Less Risky, Good Returns.

How can you invest in Mutual Funds?

Please do not follow the traditional approach of using a broker or online portals like FundsIndia, etc. Go for Direct investment in Mutual Funds.

A few years back, SEBI directed mutual fund houses/Asset management companies (AMCs) to offer a separate investment plan to investors who were investing directly with the fund house. Subsequently, fund houses started offering two plans for every mutual fund scheme. The two plans are regular plan and direct plan.

Benefits of Investing Directly in Mutual Funds.

1. NAV for the regular and direct plans are different

Though the portfolio for the regular and direct plans is same, the NAV for the direct plan is higher than regular plan due to lower expense ratio. For example, NAV for Axis Long Term Equity fund (Growth) is Rs 31.110 for direct plan and Rs 29.99 for regular plan. Do not make the mistake of believing that the regular plan is cheaper (because of lower NAV). Both had started at the same level post SEBI directive. Owing to the difference in cost structures, this gap will only widen over a period of time.

2. Higher Returns

Let’s see the impact on absolute returns through the help of an example. We have assumed two different SIP amounts (Rs 10,000 and Rs 15,000), two tenors (10 and 15 years) and two levels of returns (8% and 12%). If return mentioned is 12%, we have taken return for regular plan at 12% and for direct plan at 12.64%.

*i.imgur.com/xnrVMsN.jpg

You can see the power of compounding in full force. The difference between the absolute returns grows with the increase in SIP tenor. This makes the case for investing in direct plans of mutual funds so much stronger. In no way, do we mean that the difference in returns between the direct and regular plans will be 0.64% per annum. We have used the figure for illustration purposes.

How can you invest in Mutual Funds directly?

MF Utility (MFU) is an innovative initiative from the Mutual Fund Industry which offers convenience and empowers the investors of Mutual Fund schemes. MFU facilitates the investors with a Common Account Number (CAN) which enables them to transact in multiple schemes of various Mutual Funds participating in MFU through a single transaction and consolidated payment. They also have an online platform for direct investment.

Steps necessary to use the online facility of MF Utility

Obtain a Common Account Number (CAN) following the instructions in the investor page of MFU in a new window
The CAN form with required documents to be submitted can be found here CANforms in a new window
The completed CAN form has to submitted (in-person or couriered) to one of the point of service locations: MFUPOS in a new window
Once you receive the CAN number, send an email to clientservices [AT] mfuindia.com, quoting your CAN number and request for online access.
You will receive your login details from them.
Once you receive details, activate your account with your credentials and a one-time password (OTP) sent to your email and mobile number.
The system will then allow you to create a login and password.

The following activities are possible via the MFU Online portal from 1st Jan 2016 (the year of the direct mutual fund!) (extract from email sent to CAN holder who requested online access)

Transact online under the CANs where you are the sole / primary holder.
You can transact on Purchase, Redemption, SIP, STP and SWP.
For purchases, you will have the option of making payment through Netbanking, NEFT, RTGS or a pre-registered PayEezz Mandate.
View your Account Profile.
View transactions in the CANs where you are the second or third holder.
View your holdings in the schemes of various participating Mutual Funds.
View your Normal and Systematic Order Books.
Log a complaint or Feedback online.
We will soon be enabling more features in the coming months.
At this time the online access is enabled only for individual CANs with mode of holding as 'Single' or 'Anyone or Survivor'.

If you want more features then you can always invest offline using your CAN Number.

How to pick the Mutual Funds Schemes for investment?

First you need to identify the following things:-

1. Your Risk Profile (High Risk Investor, Medium Risk Investor or Low Risk Investor)
2. Goals (Children Education/Marriage or Retirement Corpus, etc)
3. Horizon (Short Term, Long Term)

Once you identify these, you are ready to select the Mutual Funds for investment. I have put articles which I find useful further to help in this.

Important things to look when selecting a mutual fund:-

A. Average Annual Returns of Last 5 Years
B. Size of the Fund. Do not invest in Funds with less than 1000 Crores of Assets
C. Duration of Fund Manager and returns in his period.

My personal advice:

1. SIP: Invest in Mutual Funds using Systematic Investment Plan (SIP) over lump sump to generate higher returns and to understand the power of compounding.

2. Equity Funds: Equity Funds are the best wealth creating asset. Your major investment should go there. Your allocation to Equity Mutual Funds should be more if you are a high risk investor. Who is a High Risk Investor? A person who is young, earning good and have less dependencies on him/her.

3: NFO: Do not invest in New Fund Offerings (NFO) unless you are a expert and rich investor.

Useful Resources for further diving into the world of Mutual Funds:-

I have tried to classify them as much as possible.

Sites to do Mutual Fund Research on

*www.valueresearchonline.com/funds/
Mutual Fund Ratings, Research, Best Mutual Funds, Growth Fund Ratings, Performance, Category Performance, Closed End Funds

Mutual Funds to invest in for 2016.

*myinvestmentideas.com/2015/10/top-10-best-performing-sip-mutual-funds-to-invest-in-2016/
*www.basunivesh.com/2015/10/26/top-10-best-sip-mutual-funds-to-invest-in-india-in-2016/
*www.simpleinterest.in/best-sip-mutual-funds-investment-in-2016-in-india/
*www.planmoneytax.com/best-mutual-fund-to-invest-in-india-for-2016/
*www.relakhs.com/top-15-best-mutual-funds-schemes-2016-sip-lumpsum/#
*bestelss.com/top/best-elss-invest-2016/

Direct Plans in Mutual Funds

*www.business-standard.com/article/...ns-of-mutual-fund-schemes-115061600723_1.html
*economictimes.indiatimes.com/mf/an...ct-mutual-fund-plans/articleshow/46001371.cms
*www.personalfinanceplan.in/mutual-funds/why-you-should-invest-in-direct-plans-of-mutual-funds/

SIP: Power of Compounding

*www.stableinvestor.com/2015/02/How-I-Created-Corpus-Rs-3-Crores-10-Years-Part-1.html
*www.advisorkhoj.com/articles/Mutua...st-15-years:-Large-Cap-and-Diversified-Equity

Good luck in Mutual Funds Investments.

M

No body to comment on mutual funds ?

D

modelexam said:
No body to comment on mutual funds ?

Seems like no body here is interested to invest in Mutual Funds.

I am. But I am interested since one year now. Been busy ever since.

Will have to sit down to digest the first post and plan how will I invest in SIPs.

A

Even I am interested, the return doesnot matter, atleast it should be same as what I invest. All I want is to save tax. What are the best options available?

My dad tells me not to invest in Mutual Funds. His justification is that its not worth the risk.

Desmond David said:
My dad tells me not to invest in Mutual Funds. His justification is that its not worth the risk.

How is there any risk at all, if I invest in say, debt funds (which are government funds) where return is low but funds are secure?
I would say its a very shortsighted perspective.

D

arijitsinha said:
Even I am interested, the return doesnot matter, atleast it should be same as what I invest. All I want is to save tax. What are the best options available?

Where do you invest currently? I guess FD. You can do SIP in a few Mutual funds after looking over the total fund size and their average returns over last 1/3/5/10 years. You wouldn't need to worry much here or do much of a research here as your investments are managed by a professional. You should have a mixed of Equity and Debt Funds. You can go for completely equity investment if you are a high risk taker and willing to have patience.

Desmond David said:
My dad tells me not to invest in Mutual Funds. His justification is that its not worth the risk.

Vyom said:
How is there any risk at all, if I invest in say, debt funds (which are government funds) where return is low but funds are secure?
I would say its a very shortsighted perspective.

Vyom is correct. There are different types of Mutual Funds and you can choose them according to your risk appetite. Even equity mutual funds are quite safer compared to direct equity investing.

R

The thread to the ICICI Prudential Mutual Fund investments is, the fund manager uses money from many investors to invest in stock and on the basis of the daily market research he is independent enough to invest your money in the companies that suits him.

Good OP

I have invested in Bajaj Allianz SIP for 30 years!!

P

My whole family has Mutual Fund SIP Plans usually 3-4 per head. The returns are consistent and very appealing.
At the age of 25 if you can take the risk of riding a bike in your city, the risk of investing in MF is pretty less than that.

For majority of financial goals, CFP's do recommend 70:30 plan for Equity

ebt. such as Shares or Mutual funds and PPF or long term FD's.

Zoom past 7 months.. and I still am just "planning to invest in Mutual funds".
I will get there soon. Just need a bit more research.

Geek-With-Lens have done a good job of creating this thread. So, [MENTION=118788]Geek-With-Lens[/MENTION] are you investing in MF? How is it turning out?

D

Zangetsu said:
Good OP

Thank you!

anky said:
I have invested in Bajaj Allianz SIP for 30 years!!

Would you mind if I ask you your age?

PratikV said:
My whole family has Mutual Fund SIP Plans usually 3-4 per head. The returns are consistent and very appealing.
At the age of 25 if you can take the risk of riding a bike in your city, the risk of investing in MF is pretty less than that.

For majority of financial goals, CFP's do recommend 70:30 plan for Equityebt. such as Shares or Mutual funds and PPF or long term FD's.

I liked your way of comparison. I'm sure people will understand the need of equity investing going ahead in India. Btw, my exposure to equity market is 95% but I'm comfortable to take more risk as I'm in the market for a long term and being young gives you another advantage.

Vyom said:
Zoom past 7 months.. and I still am just "planning to invest in Mutual funds".
I will get there soon. Just need a bit more research.

Geek-With-Lens have done a good job of creating this thread. So, [MENTION=118788]Geek-With-Lens[/MENTION] are you investing in MF? How is it turning out?

Thanks Vyom. Sorry for the late response. I've been inactive on TDF from many months now. It was very difficult for me to focus at multiple things at once. Coming to your question, my mutual funds investment are doing very good and the returns are now averaging around 20%. Although, I'm only investing in ELSS mutual funds now as to use the Tax deduction benefit under Section 80C. Rest of my portfolio is invested in direct equity. I've been investing in direct equity since last 8 months and the portfolio returns for direct equity is more than 50 % as of now. Don't get overwhelmed as I had invested in stocks during Feb when majority of the stocks were in bearish phase. I'm finding direct equity very rewarding and a knowledgeable experience. Although, consider it as a full time activity. You cannot get away with it as a part time activity. I've been following Indian stocks market since 3 last years and gain confidence only 8 months back to invest in them. I also got to know about a valuable online community called "Valuepickr" to discuss about the stock ideas.

T

Good Information about Mutual Funds. I am investing in mutual funds from last 3 years. For Long-term goals investing in mutual funds will give you the return to achieve your goals. Mutual Funds will gives the return which will beat the Inflation. If you Invest for more than 1 year in Equity related Mutual Funds the returns after 1 year will be Tax-Free.

Guys, how is Invest in mutual funds, MF Nav, Tax saving mutual funds, Equity Investment

They say its completely FREE registration and no surprise fees

Anybody using it ?

Bump. Anyone started investing in MF?
I recently went through the Reddit for Investment advice and read this: strategy - IndiaInvestments

Now I will watch the almost 4 hr video tutorials on Khan Academy on investing. I am hoping I could get some real clarifications from these videos: Stocks and bonds | Finance and capital markets | Khan Academy

^^Ya do keep us updated

What are the best funds right now for SIP? equity/high risk types ??

What SIPs you are investing in. I want to start SIPS and check for an year or 2 for now.

Zangetsu said:
^^Ya do keep us updated

So I still haven't seen all the videos on Khan academy. But I did manage to FINALLY submit the KYC form to get a Folio number. The fun I choose to start with is DSP Black Rock Tax saver fund. This.

I submitted the documents on saturday morning along with Rs 1000, and by Monday morning I had the Folio details on my email. I then registered at DSP Black Rock website and can see the details of the investment of Rs 1000 which I did. Today Rs 1,003.34. It's nice to see Rs 3 growth in 3 days.

Although this isn't right way to keep a watch on my investment. >_>

Anyway, so now I can track my investments from the site, can invest more money in same fund, or invest in different types of funds using same folio or even create more folios. I am still trying to understand lots of jargons since I am over whelmed now. Not using an agent, and investing directly sure is confusing.

Currently I am trying to increase my conceptual knowledge by watching video tutorials at the site: *learn.dspblackrock.com/personal-home-page

Let's see how it goes!

@Vyom - So did you register at Sharekhan (assuming because of the 'Khan academy')? Did you use a broker? Or direct SIP?

ssb1551 said:
@Vyom - So did you register at Sharekhan (assuming because of the 'Khan academy')? Did you use a broker? Or direct SIP?

I only register at DSP Black Mutual Fund, and so far haven't even started an SIP. Main reason for that is since I need to plan exactly how many, amount and duration of SIPs I need. I will get to that, but since last month busy "investing" *cough* gambling in Crypto currencies.

B

I have never invested in MF's. Though my friends are getting good returns but when it comes to savings my mind doesn't allow me to take the risk, moreover if you want more returns you will have to invest your time too which I don't have.

billubakra said:
I have never invested in MF's. Though my friends are getting good returns but when it comes to savings my mind doesn't allow me to take the risk, moreover if you want more returns you will have to invest your time too which I don't have.

Well I disagree. MF are the reason why people now "can" invest. You need time to invest in Shares. But MF takes it away. Every MF portfolio have someone that keeps track on them.
That being said, MF returns took a dive since last quarter. Just today though, I got a notification from DSP black rock, that it was a correction, and that I can/should invest now in MF.

D

@billubakra You don't need to track mutual funds on regular basis. Every MF scheme have a proper fund manager looking after the portfolio. Just do a SIP in a equity mutual fund [will suggest a plain vanilla large cap equity fund] from respected fund houses like HDFC, ICICI, etc and track performance annually or bi-annually. My ELSS mutual funds [tax saving under section 80c] have yielded a return of 18% per annum even after this recent correction without any tracking in last 3 years. We can expect a 12-15% return over a longer time frame [let's say 10 years] without any hassle in my opinion.

You will need to give a lot of time, reading and understanding things in direct equity investment and not in MF.

D

Will suggest you guys to MFU Utilities to invest in Mutual Funds. Do not use any broker, bank, adviser, etc as all of them sells regular plans which are inclusive of commissions. Go for direct plan of the same scheme which will save you from paying any commission. Commission should be around 1% per annum. I know 1% does not make much difference in shorter time frame but in longer run it does.

Quoting an article from here. Mutual fund schemes: What's the difference between direct plan and regular plan?

"Take the case of a 35-year- old investor putting Rs 10 lakhs in a Regular Plan of a Mutual Fund, which grows at 8 percent a year (less 1 percent commission). When he retires at age 65, this investment would be worth Rs 76 lakhs.

On the other hand, if he switched to a Direct Plan of the exact same Mutual Fund an eliminated this 1 percent annual commission, his retirement pot would become Rs 1 crore over the same period."

W

Just a FYI for those planning to invest in MFs,you need to do a CKYC before you can invest in MFs.This CKYC is different from the KYC done by banks & will need to be done only once after which you can invest in any MF.Also Aadhaar is mandatory for investing in MF now.With Aadhaar OTP you can complete the procedure in few minutes but you will only get a limit of 50000 per MF per year.Offline CYC require submitting documents & may take anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months(friend experience) but it has no limits for investment.

Geek-With-Lens said:
Quoting an article from here. Mutual fund schemes: What's the difference between direct plan and regular plan?
"Take the case of a 35-year- old investor putting Rs 10 lakhs in a Regular Plan of a Mutual Fund, which grows at 8 percent a year (less 1 percent commission). When he retires at age 65, this investment would be worth Rs 76 lakhs.

On the other hand, if he switched to a Direct Plan of the exact same Mutual Fund an eliminated this 1 percent annual commission, his retirement pot would become Rs 1 crore over the same period."

So interest earned is compounded annually.
and Btw which company allows to retire at the age of 65 ? I believe its 60

D

Zangetsu said:
So interest earned is compounded annually.
and Btw which company allows to retire at the age of 65 ? I believe its 60

Yes. Interest earned is compounded annually for the growth plans in MF. It was just an example to highlight the difference 1% can make in the long term.

Bump. Is someone playing the Investment game? Heard it have got a recent patch "covid19" that increases it's difficulty.

W

Vyom said:
Bump. Is someone playing the Investment game? Heard it have got a recent patch "covid19" that increases it's difficulty.

Currently(but not now exactly) is the best time to play this game/invest. I recommend waiting for nifty to touch 7k & settle there though before making fresh investment.

whitestar_999 said:
Currently(but not now exactly) is the best time to play this game/invest. I recommend waiting for nifty to touch 7k & settle there though before making fresh investment.

That's exactly why after deferring the game for years now, that I have finally decided to start playing it.
Today I started my research by discovering a YouTube channel that have a great host, teaching about the basics of investing in mutual fund.

*www.youtube.com/user/pranjalkamra

The game is on now!

W

Vyom said:
That's exactly why after deferring the game for years now, that I have finally decided to start playing it.
Today I started my research by discovering a YouTube channel that have a great host, teaching about the basics of investing in mutual fund.

*www.youtube.com/user/pranjalkamra

The game is on now!

First of all you need to decide your direction, aka direct trading or MF. I won't suggest direct trading unless willing to put in a lot of effort to learn things. Just for MF there isn't much learning involved relatively speaking.

whitestar_999 said:
First of all you need to decide your direction, aka direct trading or MF. I won't suggest direct trading unless willing to put in a lot of effort to learn things. Just for MF there isn't much learning involved relatively speaking.

The mutual app itself, the mutual funds, the diversification... If I want to invest some in direct stocks too, and a sandbox where I can actually invest to learn and not directly using real money...
There are all that I intend to learn.

W

Vyom said:
The mutual app itself, the mutual funds, the diversification... If I want to invest some in direct stocks too, and a sandbox where I can actually invest to learn and not directly using real money...
There are all that I intend to learn.

For MF you can just stick to the 4 funds(as per your requirements & funds availability) suggested in the video by Pranjal Kamra:

Direct trading in stocks is much more complicated. You can check this for virtual trading.

*moneybhai.moneycontrol.com/

My advice is to don't even touch futures/options/commodity trading, never put more money than you can afford to lose in stock market & never ever think highly of yourself if you do manage to earn some good profits(knew examples where people earned 1 lakh+ based on random tips on online forums & "gut feeling" only to end up losing much more than that a few months/years later following same logic).

whitestar_999 said:
For MF you can just stick to the 4 funds(as per your requirements & funds availability) suggested in the video by Pranjal Kamra:

Direct trading in stocks is much more complicated. You can check this for virtual trading.

*moneybhai.moneycontrol.com/

My advice is to don't even touch futures/options/commodity trading, never put more money than you can afford to lose in stock market & never ever think highly of yourself if you do manage to earn some good profits(knew examples where people earned 1 lakh+ based on random tips on online forums & "gut feeling" only to end up losing much more than that a few months/years later following same logic).

Thanks for that

I'm planning to invest as well in MFs instead of direct.

W

omega44-xt said:
Thanks for that

I'm planning to invest as well in MFs instead of direct.

Good decision! Direct investing is much more time consuming & mentally exhausting compared to SIPs in MF. Check whether your PAN is CKYC verified here(status shown as kyc registered) & if it is then you can immediately start investing in MFs online without any limits.

*www.karvykra.com/UPanSearchGlobalWithPanExempt.aspx

whitestar_999 said:
Good decision! Direct investing is much more time consuming & mentally exhausting compared to SIPs in MF. Check whether your PAN is CKYC verified here(status shown as kyc registered) & if it is then you can immediately start investing in MFs online without any limits.

*www.karvykra.com/UPanSearchGlobalWithPanExempt.aspx

That websites says Not Available.

Anyhow, I applied for an Axis demat account. A friend of mine said Axis & HDFC have good demat interface.

W

omega44-xt said:
That websites says Not Available.

Anyhow, I applied for an Axis demat account. A friend of mine said Axis & HDFC have good demat interface.

Then you will have to get CKYC verified first. Demat acc is mainly for share trading & is not required for MF investment except in rare cases where broker keeps MF units in demat acc(like zerodha). Don't spend too much on demat+trading acc with major names like axis,sbi,hdfc,icici,kotak because their brokerage charges are quite high & only worth it if you do a significant amount of share trades regularly. May be Axis demat acc opening procedure will get you CKYC verification too(especially if you already hold axis bank acc) but still confirm it with their customer care preferably via email. In case they confirm then register an acc on axismf & directly start sip in their Axis Blue Chip MF direct version which is mentioned in above youtube video(all MF have 2 versions: Regular(which has more commission charges) & Direct(less commission charges), all direct versions have Direct in their name but not all Regular versions have Regular in their name. Another classification is Growth version & Dividend version out of which always take Growth version only).

Alright, so karvykra.com shows that I am CAMS verified which I applied for in 2017 to invest in DSP Tax saver fund.
But I am not showing as verified in others:

Now, I want to know if I need to KYC verify again to invest in other mutual funds, since currently I can only invest in DSP mutual funds.
Since the site also mentions following, I shouldn't need to right?

KYC is one time exercise while dealing in securities markets - once KYC is done through a SEBI registered intermediary (broker, DP, Mutual Fund etc), you need not undergo the same process again when you approach another intermediary.

W

These are 5 agencies authorized by SEBI for CKYC verification & verification by any one of them is required(& not all of them). You can start investing in any MF now by going to MF site & creating an account by entering pan number. You will receive an otp on your mobile number & email address mentioned in the ckyc form you submitted(aka your DSP tax saver fund application) for confirmation & after that your acc will be ready for investing in that MF. Read my above post about difference between Regular & Direct versions of a MF plan. All MFs are legally required to provide both versions on their own site but not necessarily on other/3rd party site.e.g. ICICI MF site will give you options for both regular & direct versions of a MF for its own MF but not for any other MF like hdfc or axis etc which will have only regular version.

First check whether your DSP tax saver fund is Regular or Direct(it must have Direct in its name) & if it is regular then you can switch it to direct version on their site(aka DSP MF site).

whitestar_999 said:
Then you will have to get CKYC verified first. Demat acc is mainly for share trading & is not required for MF investment except in rare cases where broker keeps MF units in demat acc(like zerodha). Don't spend too much on demat+trading acc with major names like axis,sbi,hdfc,icici,kotak because their brokerage charges are quite high & only worth it if you do a significant amount of share trades regularly. May be Axis demat acc opening procedure will get you CKYC verification too(especially if you already hold axis bank acc) but still confirm it with their customer care preferably via email. In case they confirm then register an acc on axismf & directly start sip in their Axis Blue Chip MF direct version which is mentioned in above youtube video(all MF have 2 versions: Regular(which has more commission charges) & Direct(less commission charges), all direct versions have Direct in their name but not all Regular versions have Regular in their name. Another classification is Growth version & Dividend version out of which always take Growth version only).

A friend of mine does invest in MF & directly in stocks. HE recommended me an Axis MF as well & recommended me to open Demat at axis as I have an account with them. He said it would be convenient for me & once I learn stuff I can decide for myself how to trade & from where.

Will surely keep those points in mind.

W

omega44-xt said:
A friend of mine does invest in MF & directly in stocks. HE recommended me an Axis MF as well & recommended me to open Demat at axis as I have an account with them. He said it would be convenient for me & once I learn stuff I can decide for myself how to trade & from where.

Will surely keep those points in mind.

There are many axis MF, select axis bluechip mentioned in youtube video I posted earlier. I also gave advice in that post but repeating it again here. Do not put more money than you can afford to lose in direct stock trading & never invest solely based on "friend's or relatives advice" even if they are running in lakh+ of profit currently(aka I doubt a person will have pro stock traders in their family/friends & still asking about it online,one but not the only sign of a pro in stock trading is he will be holding no other job & would be making his money entirely from stock trading).

whitestar_999 said:
There are many axis MF, select axis bluechip mentioned in youtube video I posted earlier. I also gave advice in that post but repeating it again here. Do not put more money than you can afford to lose in direct stock trading & never invest solely based on "friend's or relatives advice" even if they are running in lakh+ of profit currently(aka I doubt a person will have pro stock traders in their family/friends & still asking about it online,one but not the only sign of a pro in stock trading is he will be holding no other job & would be making his money entirely from stock trading).

Obviously its risky.

All mutual funds are in negative state due to this Pandemic and Economic loss. Best time to buy funds for investment as the NAV will be lower.
Market will get stable in future.

Zangetsu said:
All mutual funds are in negative state due to this Pandemic and Economic loss. Best time to buy funds for investment as the NAV will be lower.
Market will get stable in future.

That's why many are hopping into it now. Read an article stating that a lot of demat accounts were opened during the lockdown.

Yup, this is Bear Market situation and people will wait for Bull Market to make profits.

W

omega44-xt said:
Obviously its risky.

Yes but I can assure you it is very easy to fall into the trap. I have seen people earning 10k+ in 1-2 days only to end up losing more than that later. It is completely possible that tomorrow you invest 5k thinking as small amount to invest in some company based on some random online tip & end up making 3-4k profit & this happens 2-3 times in a row making all your cautions to go away.

W

Zangetsu said:
Yup, this is Bear Market situation and people will wait for Bull Market to make profits.

One of the classic trap of the stock market, thinking that you can perfectly time the market to buy in bear market & sell in bull market. Rest assured unless you at least lose a few thousand in the beginning you will never understand this trap(seen people losing lakhs btw in this trap so losing a few thousand to understand this trap is a good deal). You invest in MF keeping at least 10+ years in mind & for a specific financial goal(retirement corpus, education expenses etc), never invest in MF with a mentality of FD like savings & 4-5 years of investment unless you consider yourself an expert in stock market. Even less need to be said about directly investing in shares which is at least 10 times riskier than MF.

Today I tried opening account with Zerodha.
It asks for online photo verification where I need to hold a paper in my hand with the OTP they provided and it will take picture. But I didn't have any webcam on my PC. (What is in person verification and why is it needed?)

There was no alternative way to verify either. Anyone of you have zerodha account? Is this a new requirement?

W

Vyom said:
Today I tried opening account with Zerodha.
It asks for online photo verification where I need to hold a paper in my hand with the OTP they provided and it will take picture. But I didn't have any webcam on my PC. (What is in person verification and why is it needed?)

There was no alternative way to verify either. Anyone of you have zerodha account? Is this a new requirement?

Yes in-person verification is needed for all financial institutions accounts as per sebi & rbi guidelines because otherwise it would become a haven for money laundering. I did the same when I opened my zerodha acc. Use a laptop.

I was looking out to invest in SIPs of low amounts and found the following funds:

SBI Gold Direct Plan
Axis Bluechip Fund Direct Plan-Growth
HDFC Gold Direct Plan-Growth
DSP Government Securities Direct Plan-Growth
Franklin India Banking & PSU Debt Fund Direct-Growth

I have thought about going ahead with Axis Bluechip Fund & Franklin India one. However, people have advised me to invest in gold funds as well. What do you think is the benefit of including gold funds in my portfolio?

W

FinancialMohan said:
I have thought about going ahead with Axis Bluechip Fund & Franklin India one. However, people have advised me to invest in gold funds as well. What do you think is the benefit of including gold funds in my portfolio?

For hedging/diversifying. Gold is also considered a good bet during times of economic downturn & considering how the coronavirus situation is developing it is better to put ~15-20% of your investment in gold in my opinion.

How is zerodha's commodity trading option to invest in gold?

W

Vyom said:
How is zerodha's commodity trading option to invest in gold?

Stay away from commodity/futures/options, these are for experts only(aka if you need to ask then you are not one). Stick to gold MFs or buy sovereign gold bond.

For Future/Options you need capital in addition to skill. So, for that I agree.
But not sure why commodity trading is for experts? Is it unlike normal trading?

W

Vyom said:
For Future/Options you need capital in addition to skill. So, for that I agree.
But not sure why commodity trading is for experts? Is it unlike normal trading?

Actually for future/options you need even less capital because of large margins given(now reduced though) so much more chances of incurring heavy losses(e.g.a few thousand rupees in acc is enough to make a future/option trade worth tens of thousands with chances of incurring similar profit/loss in tens of thousands).

Commodity trading also relies mainly on futures/options, why do you think it needs a separate proof of income/documents for activating futures/options/commodity in any brokerage account.

*www.investopedia.com/investing/commodities-trading-overview/

Vyom said:
Today I tried opening account with Zerodha.
It asks for online photo verification where I need to hold a paper in my hand with the OTP they provided and it will take picture. But I didn't have any webcam on my PC. (What is in person verification and why is it needed?)

There was no alternative way to verify either. Anyone of you have zerodha account? Is this a new requirement?

I opened the link on mobile, Google Chrome. It works.

FinancialMohan said:
I was looking out to invest in SIPs of low amounts and found the following funds:

SBI Gold Direct Plan

Axis Bluechip Fund Direct Plan-Growth

HDFC Gold Direct Plan-Growth

DSP Government Securities Direct Plan-Growth

Franklin India Banking & PSU Debt Fund Direct-Growth

I have thought about going ahead with Axis Bluechip Fund & Franklin India one. However, people have advised me to invest in gold funds as well. What do you think is the benefit of including gold funds in my portfolio?

All are ok for SIP now except the last one in my opinion. Banks are going to feel the brunt of unpaid loans in near future because people are losing earnings in lockdowns. Go for bonds or govt securities funds. Gold is a good bet but you should know its already skyrocketed in the last 12 monhts, upside may be limited, so limit its percentage if youre looking for gains.

Risky players can explore pharma funds/stocks/smallcases, they might be doing good business in the COVID-19 aftermath.

Largecap : Hdfc index fund sensex plan
Multicap : Parag Parikh Long Term Equity Fund and Invesco India contra fund
Smallcap : Axis small cap
ELSS : Mirae Asset

I plan to start investing this year since I have repaid one loan and I have money that monthly loan amount to invest. I already have one ICICI Direct account, should I use that OR should I open account from the official pages of funds say, one account for Mirae and another for Axis blue chip? Under ICICI Direct account, isn't it easy to see all investment on same website instead of maintaining several login accounts?

I am looking for inputs here on my understanding so far .
Isn't it better to start with ELSS and then add Large Cap fund investment since ELSS has tax deduction benefit under 80C and good return rates as well in case anyone wants to continue more than 3 years.

Recently added below 2 funds other than any more funds to add?

Axis Bluechip Fund - Direct Plan
Canara Robeco Bluechip Equity Fund - Direct Plan

R

shreeux said:
Recently added below 2 funds other than any more funds to add?

Axis Bluechip Fund - Direct Plan
Canara Robeco Bluechip Equity Fund - Direct Plan

Canara Robeco is an ELSS fund if I am not wrong?

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk

W

TheSloth said:
Largecap : Hdfc index fund sensex plan
Multicap : Parag Parikh Long Term Equity Fund and Invesco India contra fund
Smallcap : Axis small cap
ELSS : Mirae Asset

I plan to start investing this year since I have repaid one loan and I have money that monthly loan amount to invest. I already have one ICICI Direct account, should I use that OR should I open account from the official pages of funds say, one account for Mirae and another for Axis blue chip? Under ICICI Direct account, isn't it easy to see all investment on same website instead of maintaining several login accounts?

I am looking for inputs here on my understanding so far .
Isn't it better to start with ELSS and then add Large Cap fund investment since ELSS has tax deduction benefit under 80C and good return rates as well in case anyone wants to continue more than 3 years.

Banks don't provide "Direct" MF plans of their competitors on their platform, for that you must use either MF own site or a 3rd party site which offers direct plans for all major MFs like Groww/paytm/coin by zerodha(it keeps MF units in demat acc unlike other providers so you must open/use dmat acc too which is a bit of a hassle)

ELSS is good for tax savings but you will have to calculate how much you are saving on tax vis-a-vis investing same amount in index fund like niftybees for same number of years.

W

shreeux said:
Recently added below 2 funds other than any more funds to add?

Axis Bluechip Fund - Direct Plan
Canara Robeco Bluechip Equity Fund - Direct Plan

Typical person should not invest in more than 4-5 MF.

whitestar_999 said:
Typical person should not invest in more than 4-5 MF.

I like to add 2 to 3 funds...Max 5

MIdcap, SmallCap, Multicap, or Hybrid...Each sector need one more to add

W

shreeux said:
I like to add 2 to 3 funds...Max 5

MIdcap, SmallCap, Multicap, or Hybrid...Each sector need one more to add

First of all, add an index fund MF like niftybees. SEBI has initiated some changes in operating rules for multicap MF so wait for things to settle before picking a multicap.

*www.moneycontrol.com/mutual-funds/nav/nippon-india-etf-nifty-bees/MBM001

*www.livemint.com/mutual-fund/mf-ne...-come-into-effect-in-2021-11609125660277.html

whitestar_999 said:
First of all, add an index fund MF like niftybees. SEBI has initiated some changes in operating rules for multicap MF so wait for things to settle before picking a multicap.

*www.moneycontrol.com/mutual-funds/nav/nippon-india-etf-nifty-bees/MBM001
*www.livemint.com/mutual-fund/mf-ne...-come-into-effect-in-2021-11609125660277.html

ok..instead of an Index fund...We accumulate Niftybees or Juniorbess...Its safe?

W

shreeux said:
ok..instead of an Index fund...We accumulate Niftybees or Juniorbess...Its safe?

Yes if you can buy directly niftybees from stock market then that's better but keep in mind the liquidity is not that high in niftybees shares so you may not be able to always sell immediately.

I invested in 2 Tax Saver funds last year for 80C and getting 25-26% returns now

whitestar_999 said:
Yes if you can buy directly niftybees from stock market then that's better but keep in mind the liquidity is not that high in niftybees shares so you may not be able to always sell immediately.

Checked always liquidity there

whitestar_999 said:
Banks don't provide "Direct" MF plans of their competitors on their platform, for that you must use either MF own site or a 3rd party site which offers direct plans for all major MFs like Groww/paytm/coin by zerodha(it keeps MF units in demat acc unlike other providers so you must open/use dmat acc too which is a bit of a hassle)

ELSS is good for tax savings but you will have to calculate how much you are saving on tax vis-a-vis investing same amount in index fund like niftybees for same number of years.

I will check if ICICI Direct has MF from rival companies.

Hearing first time about the Bees. Nippon India ETF Nifty BeES [155.4799] | Nippon India Mutual Fund - Moneycontrol
I will check the details and come back with more questions.

shreeux said:
Checked always liquidity there

TheSloth said:
I will check if ICICI Direct has MF from rival companies.

Hearing first time about the Bees. Nippon India ETF Nifty BeES [155.4799] | Nippon India Mutual Fund - Moneycontrol
I will check the details and come back with more questions.

Try the Groww app, I have been using it since a long time to invest. Very easy to use and also tracks your external investments

shreeux said:
View attachment 19887

which column shows liquidity?

R

How is SBI Bluechip fund for long term investment?

Sent from my ASUS_I001DE using Tapatalk

Nerevarine said:
Try the Groww app, I have been using it since a long time to invest. Very easy to use and also tracks your external investments

I am looking into all the available options to open Demat/Trading account in apps like Zerodha, Upstox and Groww. Currently I have ICICI Direct account so I am looking into that as well.

@whitestar_999 In ICICI Direct, I am able to see SIP plans from other firms like Axis, Canara Rebeco, Mirae etc including Axis Large Cap Bluechip Growth plan.

I checked and found that annual maintenance fee is Rs.700 for ICICI Direct compared to Zerodha/Upstox having just Rs.300. Is there any other charge on every SIP I start?
I was seeing so many pros and cons of these and understood only the annual fee.

TheSloth said:
I am looking into all the available options to open Demat/Trading account in apps like Zerodha, Upstox and Groww. Currently I have ICICI Direct account so I am looking into that as well.

@whitestar_999 In ICICI Direct, I am able to see SIP plans from other firms like Axis, Canara Rebeco, Mirae etc including Axis Large Cap Bluechip Growth plan.

I checked and found that annual maintenance fee is Rs.700 for ICICI Direct compared to Zerodha/Upstox having just Rs.300. Is there any other charge on every SIP I start?
I was seeing so many pros and cons of these and understood only the annual fee.

Yes...Zerodha/Upstox discount brokerage

Discount Broker vs Full-Service broker India

Looks like by ICICI Direct account is closed. Just now I remember I closed it myself 2-3 yrs back since I was not using it and they were charging Rs.700. If re-activate my account there, will they do KYC again? If KYC process will be again then I would rather try other apps.

Nerevarine said:
Try the Groww app, I have been using it since a long time to invest. Very easy to use and also tracks your external investments

Thanks for your suggestion. I am also liking the simplicity of the UI of Groww. Haven't downloaded yet, just comparing everything from their homepages.
But What do you mean by external investments?

TheSloth said:
Looks like by ICICI Direct account is closed. Just now I remember I closed it myself 2-3 yrs back since I was not using it and they were charging Rs.700. If re-activate my account there, will they do KYC again? If KYC process will be again then I would rather try other apps.

Leave it, Not only AMC, but the brokerage also high. Banks are 3-in-1 account for easy Transaction.

What is the difference between a 3-in-1 and 2-in-1 account?.

TheSloth said:
Thanks for your suggestion. I am also liking the simplicity of the UI of Groww. Haven't downloaded yet, just comparing everything from their homepages.
But What do you mean by external investments?

I invested in Nippon Mutual outside of groww and I'm able to track it from groww app.

For indian stocks, zerodha charges one time rs 500 charge. Not sure about groww. For mf, groww is free

Yes, Groww is completely free and no hidden charges. They provide Demat option also which I've not tried yet. I am happy with MF investments now.

If you are investing in MF then look for direct investment plans instead of regular ones.

Didn't realize there was a thread for MF here. Been investing in for just over a year now thanks to my wife constantly telling me to invest. I did it through a agent and later started using Groww and Kuvera. I will switch over to direct plans once I fully understand Mutual Funds.

BTW there is a handy app to estimate the gains based on SPI amount, duration, and expected returns Financial Calculator India – Apps on Google Play
Please note that this app doesn't show any real time data, its just used for financial calculations.

W

TheSloth said:
@whitestar_999 In ICICI Direct, I am able to see SIP plans from other firms like Axis, Canara Rebeco, Mirae etc including Axis Large Cap Bluechip Growth plan.

Yes they will be there but check their name & you will not find "Direct" in their plan name meaning they are regular version of MF plans having higher expense ratio(basically the commission you pay for investment in MF, more the expense ratio lesser will be your return at the end).

W

shreeux said:
View attachment 19887

Yes I have seen it but my doubt is regarding no. of orders, if you see there are a few large order on both sides & I am guessing when a trade is executed the system tries to match such large orders first. In an usual share the orders are pretty evenly matched on both sides.

W

TheSloth said:
which column shows liquidity?

Liquidity in a stock basically means how easy it is to buy or sell.e.g.in many obscure shares the price might increase over few days but there will be no buyers so even if you have that share you will not be able to sell it at the increased price & by the time buyer appears the price may again go down. In online broker site you see the depth chart which shows you the no. of buyer & seller orders & quantity so you can get some idea about its liquidity.

whitestar_999 said:
Yes I have seen it but my doubt is regarding no. of orders, if you see there are a few large order on both sides & I am guessing when a trade is executed the system tries to match such large orders first. In an usual share the orders are pretty evenly matched on both sides.

Check spread buy/sell 0.05 to 0.10 paisa only...Its normal

For ELSS the best MF is Axis Long Term Equity. Right now reflecting % of 40+ returns in my folio.

rockfella said:
For ELSS the best MF is Axis Long Term Equity. Right now reflecting % of 40+ returns in my folio.

same, absolutely..

Nerevarine said:
same, absolutely..

I don't see folks discussing it because it is not popular for some reason. Have been investing in it almost every month since Nov 2017 and that fund seems to have it's own path. When market dips it is the last one (in my portfolio) to go down, when market goes up it's the first one to rise. Strong pillar like MF for the time being atleast.
Very nice to see fms discussing investments here. Most don't realize the real fun starts after a decade. The magic of compounding that is

Are mutual funds a good option to consider with respect to education related expenses 5 and 10 years down the line?

Or are they an option to park spare cash for long term growth - say 10 to 30 years? Retirement?

sling-shot said:
Are mutual funds a good option to consider with respect to education related expenses 5 and 10 years down the line?

Or are they an option to park spare cash for long term growth - say 10 to 30 years? Retirement?

They are good for everything. It is money. You can use it for anything.

Apart from mutual funds what other investment do you do for 80c declaration, I used to do FD (icici) but the rates are pathetic now.

I'm thinking of NSC 6.8 percent rate

I have slowed down on my SIPs into Equity MF and shifted to Gilt Funds and other debt funds. I feel equity prices are inflated right now ( al though have been sauing it since Nifty was at 12k this September, so dont go by my wordd , or anyone elses for that matter.)

Nerevarine said:
Apart from mutual funds what other investment do you do for 80c declaration, I used to do FD (icici) but the rates are pathetic now.

I'm thinking of NSC 6.8 percent rate

ELSS Mutual funds are the best 80C investment but think in terms of 7+ years.

mitraark said:
I have slowed down on my SIPs into Equity MF and shifted to Gilt Funds and other debt funds. I feel equity prices are inflated right now ( al though have been sauing it since Nifty was at 12k this September, so dont go by my wordd , or anyone elses for that matter.)

GILT funds are not good. You should not disturb your ongoing sips. The inflated price you think could be a steady bull run who knows?!

rockfella said:
GILT funds are not good. You should not disturb your ongoing sips. The inflated price you think could be a steady bull run who knows?!

Not good in the sense? Returns are low?

Gilt funds are stable. Secured. Govt backed. And they do well in times uncertainities, which im hoping will come sooner or later given the overvalued state of markets right now.

SIPs i had a few that ran its preplanned 3 years course(mid july to sep), i just opted not to start new ones right now.

rockfella said:
ELSS Mutual funds are the best 80C investment but think in terms of 7+ years.

No I invest 2:1 in mutual funds and a safe investment every year. Usually I do FDs for the safe investment but this year Ill do NSC. Because FD rates are too low. I dont want to do PPF/Retirement funds etc because I would need money in next 5-10 years.

W

Nerevarine said:
No I invest 2:1 in mutual funds and a safe investment every year. Usually I do FDs for the safe investment but this year Ill do NSC. Because FD rates are too low. I dont want to do PPF/Retirement funds etc because I would need money in next 5-10 years.

Park your money(till 5 lakh) in IDFC First bank at the rate of 7%, best option currently. As for bank being weak well just keep an eye on its share price & remember that even Yes bank which was once the 4th largest pvt bank in India & many times bigger than IDFC took almost 1.5 years to sink, same with Laxmi Vilas bank which took around 1 year to sink & in case of Yes bank, depositors money was stuck for around 3 weeks only.

whitestar_999 said:
Park your money(till 5 lakh) in IDFC First bank at the rate of 7%, best option currently. As for bank being weak well just keep an eye on its share price & remember that even Yes bank which was once the 4th largest pvt bank in India & many times bigger than IDFC took almost 1.5 years to sink, same with Laxmi Vilas bank which took around 1 year to sink & in case of Yes bank, depositors money was stuck for around 3 weeks only.

Do you think this will remain 7 % for long, DBS used to offer same but it has now fallen..

Even Kotak was giving 6.5% earlier

Its good to see the on going discussion! As a newbie here, I am learning lot of things.

I have question regarding this long term investments in ELSS/Direct MFs. Is it really safe for long term? How much percentage of total savings will be better and safer bet in this case.
How does it fair against NPS or FDs. I am watching some videos on youtube, suggestion was to go for FDs for short term(<=5 years) where one knows that the cash will be needed within this time for sure. If its long term, better to go ELSS/Other MFs. Can we consider this as general idea and follow or there are any other risks to considered?

Another question I have is, say I am investing in MFs through SIP. How fast I can withdraw cash in case of emergencies?

TheSloth said:
Its good to see the on going discussion! As a newbie here, I am learning lot of things.

I have question regarding this long term investments in ELSS/Direct MFs. Is it really safe for long term? How much percentage of total savings will be better and safer bet in this case.
How does it fair against NPS or FDs. I am watching some videos on youtube, suggestion was to go for FDs for short term(<=5 years) where one knows that the cash will be needed within this time for sure. If its long term, better to go ELSS/Other MFs. Can we consider this as general idea and follow or there are any other risks to considered?

Another question I have is, say I am investing in MFs through SIP. How fast I can withdraw cash in case of emergencies?

It is very safe for LONG TERM ONLY. Whatever MF you do think in terms of 7 years minimum.
Cash withdraw takes about 7 days. Faster in liquid funds. Since FDs are indirectly related to the economy investing in FDs never makes sense. They will charge you high % on the interest you earn on FD as well. IMHO it is a scam lol.

rockfella said:
It is very safe for LONG TERM ONLY. Whatever MF you do think in terms of 7 years minimum.
Cash withdraw takes about 7 days. Faster in liquid funds. Since FDs are indirectly related to the economy investing in FDs never makes sense. They will charge you 30% on the interest you earn on FD as well. IMHO it is a scam lol.

What is that 30% charge ? Didn't read about it until now.

Oh man! I didn't get updates from this thread in my feed, weird.
I am glad this thread picked up!

My investments done in July last year, are up more than 20% due to the inflated market right now. So needless to say I am regretting not investing more at that time.

Also, my small investments done in trading, gave me good amounts of losses too! Which I consider a fees paid to market, and right now not doing any trading.

Also applying in majority of IPOs from August, and got one too (Mazdock), which gave me good 40% listing gain! Invest Aaj for kal and Finology are good YTbers which I am following to get my insights.

Now I am trying to wait for the dip in the market to reenter, but not sure when it's going to be!

TheSloth said:
What is that 30% charge ? Didn't read about it until now.

Probably refers to the income tax chargeable on interest.

W

Nerevarine said:
Do you think this will remain 7 % for long, DBS used to offer same but it has now fallen..

I think it will last for at least a year or two as IDFC is still too small scale.

W

TheSloth said:
Its good to see the on going discussion! As a newbie here, I am learning lot of things.

I have question regarding this long term investments in ELSS/Direct MFs. Is it really safe for long term? How much percentage of total savings will be better and safer bet in this case.
How does it fair against NPS or FDs. I am watching some videos on youtube, suggestion was to go for FDs for short term(<=5 years) where one knows that the cash will be needed within this time for sure. If its long term, better to go ELSS/Other MFs. Can we consider this as general idea and follow or there are any other risks to considered?

Another question I have is, say I am investing in MFs through SIP. How fast I can withdraw cash in case of emergencies?

Good large cap MF are safe in the long term(in fact safer than many banks as some banks have failed but never a good large cap mf). NPS is your retirement benefit provided by the employer & an opportunity to save tax under 80C exemption. FD is not recommended for non-senior citizens who are not looking to park their life savings, keep some amount in FD if you are getting good interest much higher than savings acc else it is useless.

TheSloth said:
What is that 30% charge ? Didn't read about it until now.

All interest income generated from fd/rd is taxable at your current income tax slab so if you are in 30% tax slab then you will have to pay 30% tax(in fact a bit more after incl cess) on all interest income from fd/rd.

W

Vyom said:
Also, my small investments done in trading, gave me good amounts of losses too! Which I consider a fees paid to market, and right now not doing any trading.

Welcome to the club! Unless one loses some good amount of money in the market first he will never make money in the market later either.

Vyom said:
Also applying in majority of IPOs from August, and got one too (Mazdock), which gave me good 40% listing gain! Invest Aaj for kal and Finology are good YTbers which I am following to get my insights.

IPOs nowadays may seem like easy money but don't get misled, good IPOs are always in minority & it also depends on current market situation. Take a good look at burger king ipo price chart after its listing where many lost heavily despite having the chance to make a good profit. Remember when you are directly dealing in equities then you are effectively competing against the likes of Mukesh Ambani & Jhunjhunwala, there is a good reason why you have heard of many people making lakhs in share market but never many millionaire/billionaire investors like Jhunjhunwala. I have seen guys on forums earning 50-60k within few weeks & then losing similar amount in few hours so at the end of the year they are still at the same place or just a bit better financially while still holding their regular job.

whitestar_999 said:
IPOs nowadays may seem like easy money but don't get misled, good IPOs are always in minority & it also depends on current market situation. Take a good look at burger king ipo price chart after its listing where many lost heavily despite having the chance to make a good profit. Remember when you are directly dealing in equities then you are effectively competing against the likes of Mukesh Ambani & Jhunjhunwala, there is a good reason why you have heard of many people making lakhs in share market but never many millionaire/billionaire investors like Jhunjhunwala. I have seen guys on forums earning 50-60k within few weeks & then losing similar amount in few hours so at the end of the year they are still at the same place or just a bit better financially while still holding their regular job.

Yup, I am aware about the IPOs not being an easy money. That's why I mentioned those YTers from which I get my insights. I like the funda of Invest Aaj for Kal channel:
> First see if an IPO is good enough.
> Always wait to see market response and apply on the last day (3rd day)
> If probability of market gains is good, only then apply for the IPO
> If you get a lot, sell it asap to get the listing gains.
> If you want to reinvest in that company, wait for atleast a couple quarter results.

Sadly, what happened with Burger King was a trap. And the channel fully explained how it played out like it did! (here)

I think those lost huge amounts must be dealing with F&O. I understand how risky that could be, and hence completely avoiding the same.

W

Vyom said:
> First see if an IPO is good enough.
> Always wait to see market response and apply on the last day (3rd day)
> If probability of market gains is good, only then apply for the IPO

SBI Card ipo was satisfying all these conditions from a surface point of view(aka not deep) & still it fared badly(agree corona scare played a big role but still). Nowadays because of excess liquidity in markets all IPOs are preforming at least average but in a regular market I don't think we would have seen similar performance.

For simple folks like us direct mutual funds + the simple concept of staying invested in the long run is the best way to go. One needs to look at the whole "time" in decades or at least 7 years. The problem with FDs is that once it matures up it stops compounding + FDs are running at such low ROI it is a joke. This is because even the banks rely on the economy. In the good days when they were giving 7/8 % things were different but even then MFs average at 12/15% so do the math. Post COVID they went down to 4/5% LOL! Thing which most of us miss is the power of compounding that shows its true nature after 10 years. This is a life long game brothers. Not a quick rich scheme.
PFA :

5k SIP for 5 years @ 12 % ROI:

Now 5k SIP per month for 10 years @ 12 ROI:

Now the same for 15 years:

See how it changes drastically after 10 years

Statistically only 2% people remain invested for more than 10 years. 98% withdraw. I don't have the source of this info but it is from a trusted source. So all the discussion we have about 7% roi for 2 years / 30 % roi for 1 year is all useless unless we think in terms of very long term. 7+ years minimum. Now apart from ELSS (It is just a mutual fund with lock in period of 36 months) you can withdraw emergency cash from any fund you like .. so your money is not really locked, but one should do this ideally if there is no other way out as whenever you will withdraw you will disturb it's compounding.

My example: I started investing in Nov 2017 in Aditya Birla and Axis ELSS almost together. In the first week of Jan 2021 I was able to withdraw approx 30k (because the transactions I made in nov dec 2017 were more than 36 months old) It not like your entire money is locked in ELSS. The lock is on each transaction or SIP for 36 months {in ELSS Funds ONLY, NO LOCK in other funds}. Since these days market is flying very high my AXIS ELSS reflects ROI of 45% (wayyyy too good but lovely hehe) and Aditya is sitting ducks at 14%. This tells me that Aditya is not really performing great despite the entire market running all time high. So my plan is to gradually withdraw from Aditya and immediately invest in Axis which is running good and will give me tax rebates as well. So you have to monitor your portfolio like this and keep on tweaking/reallocating funds .. maybe in 2/3 years time (which you will learn overtime)

IMHO Investing is a habit.. folks expect way too quick results and just give up after 3 years OR invest in shitty funds recommended to them by agents who take commission on your returns (these are called regular funds, never go regular, buy direct funds only)

Not bragging but the way market is moving ahead maybe by the end of 2021 my net gains can reach a level that I might be able to buy a 5/7 lakh car cash down. So that is like buying something from the interest one has gained from the investments. I don't know anyone who has done something like this (although many must be doing it already). I am sharing this with you guys to motivate you. Buying a brand new cars is another debatable topic

TheSloth said:
What is that 30% charge ? Didn't read about it until now.

Not exactly 30% but FD interest is taxed. Tax in MF gains come into affect after your gains go above 1 Lakh IIRC.

@rockfella nice explanation. BTW whats the website you used to show the calculation?

what about lumpsum MF investment for 7+ years ? are they better than SIP ?

W

Zangetsu said:
what about lumpsum MF investment for 7+ years ? are they better than SIP ?

After 10+ years they should be similar because market cycle averages extreme highs & lows. Also sip is the only way to invest regularly, lumpsum investment is for the times when you suddenly get a big amount & have no plans of spending it as much like some big bonus in a year when there are no big purchases planned.

This was forwarded by my financial advisor

RCuber said:
This was forwarded by my financial advisor
View attachment 19915

What are we looking at here? and how much a financial advisor cost? Does everyone have a advisor here?

RCuber said:
@rockfella nice explanation. BTW whats the website you used to show the calculation?

*sipcalculator.in/

RCuber said:
This was forwarded by my financial advisor
View attachment 19915

Sensex eventually comes back up and stronger. It is a direct reflection of our economy and we currently are the fastest growing large economy. Ever wondered why so many international brands want to sell everything in India? Our population/we are very impressionable : perfect to sell anything and everything. Sensible future looking smart brands know this in out. Even influencers.
You should be doing your "financing" Don't pay any advisors

TheSloth said:
What are we looking at here? and how much a financial advisor cost? Does everyone have a advisor here?

Not me I just have a friend who is very good with this stuff.

Zangetsu said:
what about lumpsum MF investment for 7+ years ? are they better than SIP ?

Post COVID when everything crashed by almost half in march end/early april was the golden (most probably one of the the best time in our life to invest aggressively (Assuming we don't see another pandemic for another 100 years or WW3 or some major recession like 2008). Lumpsums in general is not recommended in large amounts. SIPs are preferred unless you do lumpsum amounts of whatever you can do every month or even weekly ( I have done that in the past / just a few clicks on the phone app). Go for SIPs

whitestar_999 said:
After 10+ years they should be similar because market cycle averages extreme highs & lows. Also sip is the only way to invest regularly, lumpsum investment is for the times when you suddenly get a big amount & have no plans of spending it as much like some big bonus in a year when there are no big purchases planned.

Yep. If sudden expense comes up withdrawal time is around a 7/10 calendar days.

rockfella said:
You should be doing your "financing" Don't pay any advisors

Soon(TM)

Zangetsu said:
what about lumpsum MF investment for 7+ years ? are they better than SIP ?

No. SIPs are better.

Hi, all. I am also thinking of starting investing in mutual funds, but I don't really know what to do.
I guess I will need to create one investor account with some mutual fund provider first. So, should I just go ahead and register at somewhere like hdfc mutual fund or axis mutual fund sites ?
Will there be any physical / hard copy submission required for anything ?

icebags said:
Hi, all. I am also thinking of starting investing in mutual funds, but I don't really know what to do.
I guess I will need to create one investor account with some mutual fund provider first. So, should I just go ahead and register at somewhere like hdfc mutual fund or axis mutual fund sites ?
Will there be any physical / hard copy submission required for anything ?

Sign up here with all dox they ask. They will do full KYC for you. The others will do ekyc that will limit you to invest max 50k in one fund each financial year.

*upstox.com/open-demat-account/?exp...U7FkWo_K5WwBWlyVVj2oVwOp_xJGqguYaAp2TEALw_wcB

Yes this is a demat account application (free of cost) you don't need a demat account to invest in MFs.

What about www.mfutilities.com is it eKYC or full KYC?

rockfella said:
Sign up here with all dox they ask. They will do full KYC for you. The others will do ekyc that will limit you to invest max 50k in one fund each financial year.

*upstox.com/open-demat-account/?exp...U7FkWo_K5WwBWlyVVj2oVwOp_xJGqguYaAp2TEALw_wcB

Yes this is a demat account application (free of cost) you don't need a demat account to invest in MFs.

ok, so i have created an account in hdfc, and created a folio. now i need to invest.
i guess i need to look for some equity with growth option scheme. but there are many such schemes, which one to choose and how ?

i will be investing for 15-20 years at about 3k-5k pm.

icebags said:
ok, so i have created an account in hdfc, and created a folio. now i need to invest.
i guess i need to look for some equity with growth option scheme. but there are many such schemes, which one to choose and how ?

i will be investing for 15-20 years at about 3k-5k pm.

Analyze on your own...Ask quey here

*www.valueresearchonline.com/funds/

*www.morningstar.in/tools/mutual-fund-screener.aspx

*www.moneycontrol.com/mutualfundindia/

*economictimes.indiatimes.com/mf/best-mutual-funds-to-invest

W

icebags said:
ok, so i have created an account in hdfc, and created a folio. now i need to invest.
i guess i need to look for some equity with growth option scheme. but there are many such schemes, which one to choose and how ?

i will be investing for 15-20 years at about 3k-5k pm.

3-5k is too little, it is alright if you are starting in job field but don't set it as target for the rest of your career. It is suggested to invest around 25% of your monthly income. I will post some MF options later.

whitestar_999 said:
3-5k is too little, it is alright if you are starting in job field but don't set it as target for the rest of your career. It is suggested to invest around 25% of your monthly income. I will post some MF options later.

do you mean that it is suggested to invest 25% of monthly income in MF alone ? or just do investments with 25% of the income ?

W

vito scalleta said:
do you mean that it is suggested to invest 25% of monthly income in MF alone ? or just do investments with 25% of the income ?

25% is the recommended minimum one should invest out of which at least 70% should be mf investment, rest 30% you can split between savings acc & gold bonds. It is recommended to have at least 3-4 months expenses equivalent amount in your savings acc.

vito scalleta said:
do you mean that it is suggested to invest 25% of monthly income in MF alone ? or just do investments with 25% of the income ?

My suggestion is to do whatever you can. I do whatever I can and if I need funds I withdraw it, takes about a week for funds to show up in savings account. Some months I have done 90% of salary when I had less monthly expense. Some months it is just the SIPs that go through. I have some regular SIPs that I tweak as per my mood/financial year and I do lumpsums whenever I can. I have seen many people rot their savings in FDs and saving account. Think of mutual funds as your savings account that just has a lot more ROI. Apart from ELSS there is no lock on any funds. Withdraw anytime you want but whenever you do understand withdrawing will disturb your ROI and compounding. Ofcoure YMMV.

how is this fund here ?

thinking whether to go with hybrid or pure equity .....

second one seems to have steep ups and downs, whereas first one is more flatter growth.

whitestar_999 said:
3-5k is too little, it is alright if you are starting in job field but don't set it as target for the rest of your career. It is suggested to invest around 25% of your monthly income. I will post some MF options later.

may be i should..... need to start with something first though.

icebags said:
how is this fund here ?

View attachment 20075 View attachment 20076

thinking whether to go with hybrid or pure equity .....

View attachment 20077 View attachment 20078

second one seems to have steep ups and downs, whereas first one is more flatter growth.

may be i should..... need to start with something first though.

Yes start with any amount .. once you see your money growing you can always tweak things later ... some funds give you the option to increase SIP amount by 10% automatically every year too. Start asap. Key is time in the market not timing the market.

Consider this one:

*www.valueresearchonline.com/funds/15688/axis-long-term-equity-fund-direct-plan/

One of the best ELSS funds out there.
Pro: Gain wealth and save taxes as well with this one.
Cons: Each transaction (Sip/lumpsum) will be locked for 36 months.
Pro: Since each transaction is locked for 3 years this can be a great ++ as it will grow (because you won't be able to withdraw it.

For service people ELSS should be top priority specially from the start of new financial year : April. Investing in ELSS funds then paying 30k taxes does not make sense to me. I do ELSS funds first rest everything comes after.

rockfella said:
Yes start with any amount .. once you see your money growing you can always tweak things later ... some funds give you the option to increase SIP amount by 10% automatically every year too. Start asap. Key is time in the market not timing the market.

just trying to make sure money getting invested to right funds.....

icebags said:
just trying to make sure money getting invested to right funds.....

Go with Axis Long term equity fund (Direct plan only) go only with direct plans. It is a solid performer as of now. But bear in mind old performance does not guarantee good performance in the future.

rockfella said:
Go with Axis Long term equity fund (Direct plan only) go only with direct plans. It is a solid performer.

registered at hdfc few days ago. i guess i cant do that axis fund from there, right ? so, do i need to go to axis mf site and register another account? or is there any other option ?

icebags said:
registered at hdfc few days ago. i guess i cant do that axis fund from there, right ? so, do i need to go to axis mf site and register another account? or is there any other option ?

Yes. Directly register in Axis. You'll have to do it in every fund you invest to start. Another option is to do it from here:

*mfs.kfintech.com/mfs/

I prefer registering in official website first then do the transactions from the mobile apps. You also need to do full kyc or else you'll be limited to max 50k investment per FY in each fund.

rockfella said:
Yes. Directly register in Axis. You'll have to do it in every fund you invest to start. Another option is to do it from here:

*mfs.kfintech.com/mfs/

I prefer registering in official website first then do the transactions from the mobile apps. You also need to do full kyc or else you'll be limited to max 50k investment per FY in each fund.

o ok, thanks.

If you are going to do multiple investment then you can use Groww. Registering for various funds house and remembering several account passwords seem cumbersome to me. Earlier I was also planning to regsiter on Axis MF site for Large cap fund but stopped since I will doing investments from other providers as well. Groww can help me segregate all the investment under single roof for easy access and maintenance.

TheSloth said:
If you are going to do multiple investment then you can use Groww. Registering for various funds house and remembering several account passwords seem cumbersome to me. Earlier I was also planning to regsiter on Axis MF site for Large cap fund but stopped since I will doing investments from other providers as well. Groww can help me segregate all the investment under single roof for easy access and maintenance.

any charges there need to be paid to groww ?

icebags said:
any charges there need to be paid to groww ?

It is free as of now.

If you can tolerate outdated design mfutilites is supposed to be best.
www.mfuindia.com

W

sling-shot said:
If you can tolerate outdated design mfutilites is supposed to be best.
www.mfuindia.com

It is missing some important features, last time a friend told me that you can not see current asset value in it(or something like that) which is easily available in other apps like groww or zerodha coin.

W

icebags said:
may be i should..... need to start with something first though.

Don't just see the graph, see what is the portfolio constitution of equity portion in case of hybrid MFs. Frankly speaking I don't like hybrid funds all that much.

do you people watch expense ratio during investing ? i am finding hdfc has considerably higher expense ratio than axis funds.....

W

icebags said:
do you people watch expense ratio during investing ? i am finding hdfc has considerably higher expense ratio than axis funds.....

Just my observation but top rated funds usually don't have too high expense ratio & those that do most often don't appear in top performing MFs of that category.

opened a midcap sip, thanks to all you guys suggestions.

modelexam said:
No body to comment on mutual funds ?

I wish I knew about this thread when it was started. I started my journey in Nov 2017 at age 38.

Desmond David said:
My dad tells me not to invest in Mutual Funds. His justification is that its not worth the risk.

Dads have some beliefs that are very difficult to change. Back in their days MFs probably had no good returns. Indian economy picked up pace in early 2000s. They don't understand things are way different now.

anky said:
I have invested in Bajaj Allianz SIP for 30 years!!

Share your profit details/thoughts man! That's a long time. 3 decades!

Vyom said:
Bump. Is someone playing the Investment game? Heard it have got a recent patch "covid19" that increases it's difficulty.

I did some reading on how economy suffers post pandemics then recovers and usually reaches new heights. Invested aggressively after market crash in march 2020. Now my portfolio looks great.

Zangetsu said:
All mutual funds are in negative state due to this Pandemic and Economic loss. Best time to buy funds for investment as the NAV will be lower.
Market will get stable in future.

I did. Heck I even sold some 40 year old gold lying in the house when gold prices were sky high! Invested everything in MFs.

whitestar_999 said:
Banks don't provide "Direct" MF plans of their competitors on their platform, for that you must use either MF own site or a 3rd party site which offers direct plans for all major MFs like Groww/paytm/coin by zerodha(it keeps MF units in demat acc unlike other providers so you must open/use dmat acc too which is a bit of a hassle)

ELSS is good for tax savings but you will have to calculate how much you are saving on tax vis-a-vis investing same amount in index fund like niftybees for same number of years.

If we do ELSS and fill up 80C we can save around 30k taxes per year. That itself makes it the first logical choice to invest in ELSS as priority. The 36 months lock is on each transaction not the full amount invested. When I started investing in 2017 I started with 2 ELSS funds. Axis Long term equity fund and Aditya ELSS. In Jan 2121 when almost all funds were performing great I noticed Aditya ELSS hovering at around 10/15% : It was not performing well. I started withdrawing from it since some transactions were older than 36 months and invested in better performing funds.
I also plan to further withdraw from Aditya ELSS in this FY and invest in the strong performing AXIS ELSS if I find I don't have enough funds.
My point: Regular monitoring helps.

Nerevarine said:
Do you think this will remain 7 % for long, DBS used to offer same but it has now fallen..

It can. Economy affects every "Safe" option like FD/ROI in savings account etc.

Zangetsu said:
Even Kotak was giving 6.5% earlier

I think that was if you have more than a lakh in the account and 6.5% is our inflation %. It is useless if you ask me.

Zangetsu said:
what about lumpsum MF investment for 7+ years ? are they better than SIP ?

No. SIPS are preferred specially if you want to do a big lumpsum amount. At least spread out the full amount in 24 SIPS. This is to safeguard against any major dips in the future.

Vyom said:
Yup, I am aware about the IPOs not being an easy money. That's why I mentioned those YTers from which I get my insights. I like the funda of Invest Aaj for Kal channel:
> First see if an IPO is good enough.
> Always wait to see market response and apply on the last day (3rd day)
> If probability of market gains is good, only then apply for the IPO
> If you get a lot, sell it asap to get the listing gains.
> If you want to reinvest in that company, wait for atleast a couple quarter results.

Sadly, what happened with Burger King was a trap. And the channel fully explained how it played out like it did! (here)

I think those lost huge amounts must be dealing with F&O. I understand how risky that could be, and hence completely avoiding the same.

True. IPOs are risky and nothing can really give us any idea on what stock/IPO will turn into a multibagger. That luck happens rarely.
Eicher is a legendary example but back in 2004/5 who knew they will scale those heights just by selling bullets.

icebags said:
just trying to make sure money getting invested to right funds.....

There is no such thing as "Best fund" even the best performing funds in the past tend not to perform in some years. Stick with some good rated good performing funds now ..... make some analysis after a few years and tweak/change as needed.

Just started...these 3 funds...SIP basis...other than this Anything to include or exclude?
Suggestions welcome...

*i.imgur.com/Fqfnexz.png

You can never go bad with investment in Mutual funds, IF:
1. You are investing for long term (more than 5 years)
2. Your MF are diversified enough (that is shares in different MF are not overlapping by a great margin).

Also, set a goal! This is a very important factor to consider, that may who invest don't make goals.
Goal means, planning on the intent of investing in a particular MF.

Example of a goal can be "saving for car in 5 years". So when it's 5 years you withdraw that amount to fulfill your goal (provided market isn't in depression).
If we don't have goals, we end up reaching "somewhere", but not where we want to.

This is something I myself is lacking though, my aim in next month is to make goals and stick to it. I think I will open an account in Kuvera for the same.

Vyom said:
You can never go bad with investment in Mutual funds, IF:
1. You are investing for long term (more than 5 years)
2. Your MF are diversified enough (that is shares in different MF are not overlapping by a great margin).

Also, set a goal! This is a very important factor to consider, that may who invest don't make goals.
Goal means, planning on the intent of investing in a particular MF.

Example of a goal can be "saving for car in 5 years". So when it's 5 years you withdraw that amount to fulfill your goal (provided market isn't in depression).
If we don't have goals, we end up reaching "somewhere", but not where we want to.

This is something I myself is lacking though, my aim in next month is to make goals and stick to it. I think I will open an account in Kuvera for the same.

My goal is to achieve FIRE : financial independence retire early. This may take 10 /15 + years but I am on it. Few years ago I used to think of buying a car. Now I can (with the interest I have earned already!) but now I think invest more to retire early. Long term goal lol .. but I am fickle minded. I don't know how I will mentally evolve after a few years. No real use having 3 crores corpus (although that won't be bad) but living a miserable life. We got one life... gotta think on those terms too. Short terms goal is to invest all I can. If some expense comes up I withdraw from MF and invest the leftover again. I think of MFs as a savings account that just has a lot more interest rate.

Aiming for FIRE is good! But like you said, no point of having a corpus that we can't enjoy in future. So looks like you have a balanced approach in mind.

But thinking that "MF as a saving account that just had a lot more interest rate" could backfire easily.

See, market can be irrational for a long time. So suppose you want to withdraw money in year 2025. But another pandemic hits the roof and suddenly market crashes. We know it will recover, but how soon that we don't know. So it's important to have goals clearly defined (most probably printed or hand written somewhere). So if you had a goal to withdraw in 2024, you could have avoided the crash. If your goal coincided with a crash, then it's just bad luck, but chances for that is less if you plan to pull out for your goal and always follow the plan.

Vyom said:
Aiming for FIRE is good! But like you said, no point of having a corpus that we can't enjoy in future. So looks like you have a balanced approach in mind.

But thinking that "MF as a saving account that just had a lot more interest rate" could backfire easily.

See, market can be irrational for a long time. So suppose you want to withdraw money in year 2025. But another pandemic hits the roof and suddenly market crashes. We know it will recover, but how soon that we don't know. So it's important to have goals clearly defined (most probably printed or hand written somewhere). So if you had a goal to withdraw in 2024, you could have avoided the crash. If your goal coincided with a crash, then it's just bad luck, but chances for that is less if you plan to pull out for your goal and always follow the plan.

Got your pint. The last thing I will do is withdraw when it crashes.

If everyone can make money from MFs, who is losing it?

sling-shot said:
If everyone can make money from MFs, who is losing it?

Nobody. In fact, long term "investing" is not a zero sum game. You invest in the company by investing and taking a stake in the company. When the company grow, value of the investment also appreciates.
It's trading, that's a zero sum game. When one gains, other loose.

How much money is enough for Retirement ?

What do I do with the stocks I have with my current company ? I am leaving the company and the brokerage account they opened in my name is valid for 1 year. I want to move it to a different brokerage account (which hopefully wont charge yearly fees). Can anyone assist ? Or should I just sell it now and redeem it ? Company is HP Inc, and its at all time peak atm.

Zangetsu said:
How much money is enough for Retirement ?

you need to achieve financial independence . then, after that you should still be able to commit to savings for a safe lengthy retired life.

i have another query though. what are you people opinion on index funds ( sensex/nifty ). it seems i need to make one sip there too, for relatively less monitoring and diversification purposes.

Zangetsu said:
How much money is enough for Retirement ?

Depends on your requirements. More the better lol.

Example:
1 Crore invested ROI 12% and you withdrawing 50k every month and withdrawal amount increasing 10% every year for 30 year. 12% ROI won't cut it.

Everything changes when we assume ROI as 15%!

Nerevarine said:
What do I do with the stocks I have with my current company ? I am leaving the company and the brokerage account they opened in my name is valid for 1 year. I want to move it to a different brokerage account (which hopefully wont charge yearly fees). Can anyone assist ? Or should I just sell it now and redeem it ? Company is HP Inc, and its at all time peak atm.

Depends on if you need money "now". And if you trust hp to grow more in coming years. If you think HP will grow, transfer the shares to another demat account.
If you think company is at it's peak, then sell and invest in some shares you believe in. Decision needs to be taken in respect of your trust on company and your need of capital.

icebags said:
i have another query though. what are you people opinion on index funds ( sensex/nifty ). it seems i need to make one sip there too, for relatively less monitoring and diversification purposes.

Index funds are becoming popular recently. Since it have very low (or no) maintenance charge and exit load, you can open an SIP there.

I want to keep and forget it for 20 years but I need an external brokerage account. My current one, merrill lynch will get closed 1 year after my resignation.
Anyone know how to get started on this ?

Oh I realized you are talking about US only stock and US only broker. No idea about it mate.
Better call the customer care and ask them directly how to transfer shares to your own demat account. But you can't transfer to India based demat account.

Here is why one should start asap even with a small amount:

I had a small discussion with a friend and he asked me few questions which I could not answer so I am asking you guys for help.
Say after 20 yrs one is closing the investment and the closing amount is 1Cr INR.
1. How much tax one has to pay(as per today) on this amount and how much will be the final amount?
2. Can we do anything to reduce the tax on this closing amount?
3. If the tax is huge, is it wise to do long term investment and end up paying huge tax. Considering the inflation in economy as well, will the final amount in hand will be good enough to consider investing for such long periods?

*www.livemint.com/mutual-fund/mf-ne...nces-launch-of-fang-funds-11617783904851.html

W

TheSloth said:
I had a small discussion with a friend and he asked me few questions which I could not answer so I am asking you guys for help.
Say after 20 yrs one is closing the investment and the closing amount is 1Cr INR.
1. How much tax one has to pay(as per today) on this amount and how much will be the final amount?
2. Can we do anything to reduce the tax on this closing amount?
3. If the tax is huge, is it wise to do long term investment and end up paying huge tax. Considering the inflation in economy as well, will the final amount in hand will be good enough to consider investing for such long periods?

10% is the current tax rate beyond 1 lakh in long term(sum invested/sip older than 1 year) capital gains from MF which is still good enough considering absolute return after all those years will be likely in the range of 500-600%.

whitestar_999 said:
10% is the current tax rate beyond 1 lakh in long term(sum invested/sip older than 1 year) capital gains from MF which is still good enough considering absolute return after all those years will be likely in the range of 500-600%.

you mean even if the total amount is around 1Cr, the tax will be 1L? I thought it will be around 35%

W

TheSloth said:
you mean even if the total amount is around 1Cr, the tax will be 1L? I thought it will be around 35%

That 35% is for 30 lakh+ tax slab income in a year not investment income accrued over the years. You report long term capital gains in a separate section in ITR & system will apply the 10%(or whatever the rate at that time+some cess etc) on this amount different from your income taxed as per tax slab.

*cleartax.in/s/schedule-112a-scrip-wise-reporting-capital-gains-listed-equity-shares-units

While checking the MF on Groww, under the Tax Implcations they have mentioned that :
Returns are taxed at 15%, if you redeem before one year. After 1 Year, you are required to pay LTCG tax of 10% on returns of Rs. 1 lakh+ in a financial year.

Could any one explain about the bold part in detail?
Do i need to pay this tax of 10% every year or only when I redeem entire amount, say after 10 year?
If it is every year, then do i need to mention this on income tax website when I file tax online every year?

W

TheSloth said:
While checking the MF on Groww, under the Tax Implcations they have mentioned that :
Returns are taxed at 15%, if you redeem before one year. After 1 Year, you are required to pay LTCG tax of 10% on returns of Rs. 1 lakh+ in a financial year.

Could any one explain about the bold part in detail?
Do i need to pay this tax of 10% every year or only when I redeem entire amount, say after 10 year?
If it is every year, then do i need to mention this on income tax website when I file tax online every year?

Tax is always paid on something you receive in a tangible form(aka cash/electronic money/service etc) so you pay any tax on any MF/share only when redeeming/selling & not the unrealized gain showing in your dashboard in your online broker/MF site/app.

whitestar_999 said:
Tax is always paid on something you receive in a tangible form(aka cash/electronic money/service etc) so you pay any tax on any MF/share only when redeeming/selling & not the unrealized gain showing in your dashboard in your online broker/MF site/app.

Which is great, since it forces people to invest for long term!

which app do i use to invest for long term? i want to invest rs 1000

Neo said:
which app do i use to invest for long term? i want to invest rs 1000

Groww, Zerodha Coin and Upstox seems to be trending. I personally liked Groww and Coin UI. I havent used 3rd one. Groww doesnt have annual fee. Try all 3 and then decide which you like most.

Hi guys, I am interested in making short term investments for personal goals like shopping and all. What kind of things I should look for when doing short term investments?
Currently ICICI Prudential Technology MF is going with 134% of 1yr return, so is it good for short term investment?

W

TheSloth said:
Hi guys, I am interested in making short term investments for personal goals like shopping and all. What kind of things I should look for when doing short term investments?
Currently ICICI Prudential Technology MF is going with 134% of 1yr return, so is it good for short term investment?

AVOID! For "short term" investment just put your money in IDFC First bank savings acc at 6% interest rate. Learn how to use a good credit card efficiently & you can save 4-5k easily in a year on spends.

Agree. For short term of around 1 year, I use ICICI bank's iWish feature (recurring deposit), that allows me to name a goal and make an SIP towards fulfilling that goal for x months. Longer the period, longer the rates it would give me.
iWish interest rates are here: iWish Interest Rates - Check Latest iWish Flexible RD Interest Rates Online - ICICI Bank

But yes, even with those recurring interest rates, it doesn't match IDFC First bank's 6% rates!

Any particular reason long term plans like I mentioned above will not be good for short term investment even though it has such high return rate?

TheSloth said:
Hi guys, I am interested in making short term investments for personal goals like shopping and all. What kind of things I should look for when doing short term investments?
Currently ICICI Prudential Technology MF is going with 134% of 1yr return, so is it good for short term investment?

Isn't that amount of return too good, even for long term

Neo said:
Isn't that amount of return too good, even for long term

yes. These Technology related funds, mostly invested in Indian IT sector, were not doing so well until Covid I am guessing. After the dip during Mar-Jun2020, these have risen up since then by huge margin and overtook some long term Blue chip funds.

TheSloth said:
yes. These Technology related funds, mostly invested in Indian IT sector, were not doing so well until Covid I am guessing. After the dip during Mar-Jun2020, these have risen up since then by huge margin and overtook some long term Blue chip funds.

There's something called sector rotation. Not every sector performs better all the time.
The tech sector which rose in last year, was only because of the lockdown. Since lockdown caused every job which required physical presence at job location unsustainable, the jobs which didn't have an impact were IT related jobs. Those who could WFH, saw no impact. Tech sector even saw resurgence due to this immunity from the pandemic.
But now, tech sector have already became overpriced. So next few months/years might not see much growth. Hence tech sector might take a back seat now, and other sectors like metal, steel might be better going forward.

I really like Invest for Aaj kal channel on YT. The guy Anant Laddha really tells about such things in great detail. I highly suggest checking out his videos:

*www.youtube.com/c/InvestAajForKal/videos

I am following his videos since few months now, and self promotion aside, I really like his methodologies and clear cut rules in investing/trading.

TheSloth said:
Any particular reason long term plans like I mentioned above will not be good for short term investment even though it has such high return rate?

The returns you are seeing now is because of V shape recovery that happened after covid related market crash in march april 2020. Since then the sensex went up on an unprecedented rise and peaked on Jan 22nd 2021. In-fact if you one invested 1 lakh in march 20 the value of it now would be around 1.4 L. Now the market is unpredictable. A 1 L invested now might fetch extra 15 k by april 22.

PFB:

Post covid hit:

TheSloth said:
yes. These Technology related funds, mostly invested in Indian IT sector, were not doing so well until Covid I am guessing. After the dip during Mar-Jun2020, these have risen up since then by huge margin and overtook some long term Blue chip funds.

Mutual funds overall went up by 41% since last year.

what market gurus are telling? Should normal salaried person should invest in MFs or stick to PPF with fixed return rates? I am still new to investments and getting familiar with things.

TheSloth said:
what market gurus are telling? Should normal salaried person should invest in MFs or stick to PPF with fixed return rates? I am still new to investments and getting familiar with things.

Normal salaried person should do SIPs in a MF that invests in good diversified funds, irrespective of past performance.
You can follow the 50-30-20 rule, which says spent 50% of your salary towards things you 'need', 30% towards things you 'want', and the rest 20% should go into investments.
Although I like to invest more than 20% in investments. Due to corona, last year I managed to invest/save around 40% of my income. But I know this year that won't be possible.
I suggest to watch this nice video for someone new to investing, have been helpful for me:

Vyom said:
Normal salaried person should do SIPs in a MF that invests in good diversified funds, irrespective of past performance.
You can follow the 50-30-20 rule, which says spent 50% of your salary towards things you 'need', 30% towards things you 'want', and the rest 20% should go into investments.
Although I like to invest more than 20% in investments. Due to corona, last year I managed to invest/save around 40% of my income. But I know this year that won't be possible.
I suggest to watch this nice video for someone new to investing, have been helpful for me:

I did come across this rule and have been planing to follow this rule and have decided to shuffle 30%-20% between Savings and Wants based on situations I face.
The problem I am facing is how do I diversify my investment with the limited amount I have.
I want to do some investment which will save me tax so I am sure I have to invest in ELSS and NPS.
Then comes the MF from blue chip funds where I won't save tax but still will be my long term investment.
Should I invest in several blue chip funds or just 1 or 2 and rest of the money should go in ELSS.
Then I am also seeing that some part of investment should be in debt funds which I am yet to explore.
For all of this how do I distribute my investment for "safe and secure" returns in long terms.

The videos shared by everyone in this thread sure helps a lot in all of this. So keep sharing!

If you can save (and invest) more than 50 % of your salary, you can have financial independence in like 15-20 years.

Neo said:
If you can save (and invest) more than 50 % of your salary, you can have financial independence in like 15-20 years.

*www.investopedia.com/terms/f/financial-independence-retire-early-fire.asp

Ultimate goal of investing.

yeah, I like the idea financial independence and might pursue it. I would be cool to see what I will do if i'm not a burden on myself (financially)

Neo said:
yeah, I like the idea financial independence and might pursue it. I would be cool to see what I will do if i'm not a burden on myself (financially)

This is the concept that really made me interested.

Interesting quote I read today and feel is true:

Once you make money from Investing and Trading, it's hard to spend because you view the cash as opportunity to make more, not as a voucher.

Vyom said:
Interesting quote I read today and feel is true:

True. Happened with me too. Once a spendthrift I live like a miser now lol.

Another thing wanted to point out: Avoid investing large lumpsums. It is not recommended. I've seen portfolios set up by naïve investors (some friends of mine) who were advised by relationship manager to do that. 10 lakh in single fund invested as lumpsum ... hovering at mere 6/9% after 2 years. 7 lakh done in one shot giving negative returns after 5 years (No clue how that happened but it did). If you have a big amount split it into SIPS for 24 months and let it "time release" to MFs. This is to safeguard against calamities like 2008 recession/Covid/anything in the future.

What is time release?
Safe guard for 24 months you mean? Long term investment is safe anyways.

Hey guys! One more question!
Say I started investing in ELSS fund A and I plan to invest fo10 yrs. But after 3 years A isn't performing well and I want to switch to fund B. So after withdrawing money from A, i will have to pay 10% tax. then If the remaining money I invested in B as lumpsump and started SIP like earlier I was doing with A. Will B give good returns after remaining 7 yrs or continuing with A for 10yrs will give better returns?
Point, is how do you people switch and continue investments from one fund to another? Or no one usually switches?

Neo said:
What is time release?
Safe guard for 24 months you mean? Long term investment is safe anyways.

Multiple sips posting at different dates spread across 24 months to counter calamities like 2008 recession/covid/anything. Anything is always possible. Market tends to crash often but always goes up.

W

TheSloth said:
Hey guys! One more question!
Say I started investing in ELSS fund A and I plan to invest fo10 yrs. But after 3 years A isn't performing well and I want to switch to fund B. So after withdrawing money from A, i will have to pay 10% tax. then If the remaining money I invested in B as lumpsump and started SIP like earlier I was doing with A. Will B give good returns after remaining 7 yrs or continuing with A for 10yrs will give better returns?
Point, is how do you people switch and continue investments from one fund to another? Or no one usually switches?

Each SIP in ELSS has its own 3 years lock-in period. You can only switch between MF schemes of same AMC(e.g.switch from sbi elss scheme A to sbi elss scheme B after 3 years lock-in period). To assess MP performance you must see relative performance of your MF in that category so if it usually stays in top 5 performers(on annual/cumulative basis) in last 2-3 years then it is doing alright.

whitestar_999 said:
Each SIP in ELSS has its own 3 years lock-in period. You can only switch between MF schemes of same AMC(e.g.switch from sbi elss scheme A to sbi elss scheme B after 3 years lock-in period). To assess MP performance you must see relative performance of your MF in that category so if it usually stays in top 5 performers(on annual/cumulative basis) in last 2-3 years then it is doing alright.

Ok so we can switch between same fund house, got it. But can I switch to another fund house after withdrawing money from fund A, with first payment as lumpsump and then restarting fresh SIP in fund B?
3yrs is too less to show good progress for any equity fund, i took wrong period in my example above, my bad. Let total period be 12yrs and after 6yrs, can I switch to B from A at 7th year and expect same returns after the remaining 6yrs like I initially expected from A ? Or this timer of 12yrs get reset and I need to wait again for another 12yrs t get originally expected returns?

Or this concept of switching from A to B is doesn't exist for long term investment plans?

I am asking because many people after Covid market crash would have withdrawn amount at that time and sitting with huge amount in their bank account. After market seem to get back on track again they would have invested all the amount in funds. How does this all work?

W

TheSloth said:
Ok so we can switch between same fund house, got it. But can I switch to another fund house after withdrawing money from fund A, with first payment as lumpsump and then restarting fresh SIP in fund B?
3yrs is too less to show good progress for any equity fund, i took wrong period in my example above, my bad. Let total period be 12yrs and after 6yrs, can I switch to B from A at 7th year and expect same returns after the remaining 6yrs like I initially expected from A ? Or this timer of 12yrs get reset and I need to wait again for another 12yrs t get originally expected returns?

Or this concept of switching from A to B is doesn't exist for long term investment plans?

I am asking because many people after Covid market crash would have withdrawn amount at that time and sitting with huge amount in their bank account. After market seem to get back on track again they would have invested all the amount in funds. How does this all work?

It is recommended to switch only if performance is really poor & if a fund perform so badly after cumulative basis of 7 years then most likely you chose the wrong fund from the start. In such case nothing you can do other than investing fresh in another good fund & wait for 7 more years to see if you get decent return.

whitestar_999 said:
It is recommended to switch only if performance is really poor & if a fund perform so badly after cumulative basis of 7 years then most likely you chose the wrong fund from the start. In such case nothing you can do other than investing fresh in another good fund & wait for 7 more years to see if you get decent return.

Some of the good performing funds tend to loose ground after some years.. hence monitoring is essential.

W

rockfella said:
Some of the good performing funds tend to loose ground after some years.. hence monitoring is essential.

Some example, I look at avg performance of past 5 years at least & till now any good MF I see has been able to remain in one of the top 5 position on a cumulative 5 years basis(maybe it falls down to 10th or 15th position in a certain year but on 5 years cumulative basis it remains in top 5).

My funda for long term investing would be: if a fund is not performing well, I stop it's SIP and continue SIP in good funds.
But I wouldn't transfer funds from previous fund to new fund.

You see, if a fund is not performing well, that means the timing of the sector in which the fund invested failed, not the fund itself. Hence I would give it time to grow, while not investing fresh money. Hope that makes sense.

Also, a good ELSS fund is diversified enough, so I don't think there would be a situation to change an ELSS fund. I am happy with the one I am investing: DSP's Tax saver fund.

Vyom said:
My funda for long term investing would be: if a fund is not performing well, I stop it's SIP and continue SIP in good funds.
But I wouldn't transfer funds from previous fund to new fund.

You see, if a fund is not performing well, that means the timing of the sector in which the fund invested failed, not the fund itself. Hence I would give it time to grow, while not investing fresh money. Hope that makes sense.

Also, a good ELSS fund is diversified enough, so I don't think there would be a situation to change an ELSS fund. I am happy with the one I am investing: DSP's Tax saver fund.

It does make sense.

Hey guys!
I started doing SIP in one the ELSS fund. But I am having 1 problem now. After the 1st month statement which came to my email, I found out that my Address in PAN card were old and not updated. I want to correct those address related fields but not seeing any way to correct it through fund house or through Groww app. Any suggestions here?
I have updated the address in PAN through Aadhaar card but the I do not know how to change address in Fund's monthly statements.
Do I need to stop this SIP and start another fresh SIP which will reflect my updated address?

On their website they are telling

Individual: Please submit a CKYC Form at any of the Investor Service Centres of any Mutual Fund along with:

Proof of identity (PoI)

Proof of address (PoA)

NRI/PIO/OCI - Copy of passport/PIO Card/OCI Card and overseas Proof of Address

Could anyone tell what is Investor Service Centres of any Mutual Fund?

W

TheSloth said:
Hey guys!
I started doing SIP in one the ELSS fund. But I am having 1 problem now. After the 1st month statement which came to my email, I found out that my Address in PAN card were old and not updated. I want to correct those address related fields but not seeing any way to correct it through fund house or through Groww app. Any suggestions here?
I have updated the address in PAN through Aadhaar card but the I do not know how to change address in Fund's monthly statements.
Do I need to stop this SIP and start another fresh SIP which will reflect my updated address?

On their website they are telling

Could anyone tell what is Investor Service Centres of any Mutual Fund?

You need to submit this filled form with attached documents as proof to a nearby service centre of any MF/CKYC agency like CAMS(contact the fund house to know nearest such centre in your city).

*portal.amfiindia.com/spages/ChangeIndividualForm-KYC.pdf

whitestar_999 said:
You need to submit this filled form with attached documents as proof to a nearby service centre of any MF/CKYC agency like CAMS(contact the fund house to know nearest such centre in your city).

*portal.amfiindia.com/spages/ChangeIndividualForm-KYC.pdf

Thanks! One more question. I checked on this portal : Know Your Status
and found out that my KYC was done by CVL. Do I need to do KYC again through CVL or any one of those 5 nearest to my house would be fine?

W

TheSloth said:
Thanks! One more question. I checked on this portal : Know Your Status
and found out that my KYC was done by CVL. Do I need to do KYC again through CVL or any one of those 5 nearest to my house would be fine?

No need to do via same CKYC agency.

Anyone using Groww?

omega44-xt said:
Anyone using Groww?

Yes.

TheSloth said:
Yes.

Your experience using it? Planning to use it for MF direct plans. I already have axis demat as well, but will likely close that after a year if I become bit active in trading.

omega44-xt said:
Your experience using it? Planning to use it for MF direct plans. I already have axis demat as well, but will likely close that after a year if I become bit active in trading.

It is easy to explore and compare MFs but I did not like the Order(to buy MF units) and SIP maintenance options. It is still confusing to me. I am thinking to try Zerodha but don't know if they have import options for funds.
@Zangetsu is also using Groww app.

W

omega44-xt said:
I already have axis demat as well, but will likely close that after a year if I become bit active in trading.

Do not get involved in trading beyond a casual investment of 10-20k. By trading it is traditionally mean intraday, future & options. All these are for experts only.

whitestar_999 said:
Do not get involved in trading beyond a casual investment of 10-20k. By trading it is traditionally mean intraday, future & options. All these are for experts only.

I don't plan to touch those 3, can't sit & watch charts when I have a job. Currently have few thousands in some stocks, might add some more later, but planning to start SIP in MFs.

TheSloth said:
It is easy to explore and compare MFs but I did not like the Order(to buy MF units) and SIP maintenance options. It is still confusing to me. I am thinking to try Zerodha but don't know if they have import options for funds.
@Zangetsu is also using Groww app.

Yes, I am using it for last 1 year and its good. No cost and free.

Zerodha charges some amount I guess. But its old one and popular.

W

omega44-xt said:
I don't plan to touch those 3, can't sit & watch charts when I have a job. Currently have few thousands in some stocks, might add some more later, but planning to start SIP in MFs.

Even direct invest in shares is not to be taken lightly, seen people going bankrupt investing lakhs in failed companies(especially Anil Ambani group companies). If you have the money & want peace of mind then just buy some shares of top companies like reliance, hdfc, tcs, infosys etc & forget about it for 10+ years. If you want to go beyond then limit yourself to not investing more than 10% of your annual income(assuming salaried/self-employed, don't go beyond 10-20k if student/no income) at any time.

whitestar_999 said:
Even direct invest in shares is not to be taken lightly, seen people going bankrupt investing lakhs in failed companies(especially Anil Ambani group companies). If you have the money & want peace of mind then just buy some shares of top companies like reliance, hdfc, tcs, infosys etc & forget about it for 10+ years. If you want to go beyond then limit yourself to not investing more than 10% of your annual income(assuming salaried/self-employed, don't go beyond 10-20k if student/no income) at any time.

I'll likely not cross 20k anytime soon with direct investment. Hence MFs. I'm trying to follow analysts a bit to see how good their predictions are, let's see.

W

omega44-xt said:
I'll likely not cross 20k anytime soon with direct investment. Hence MFs. I'm trying to follow analysts a bit to see how good their predictions are, let's see.

Forget about those youtube analysts & gurus, typical retail investor never come in contact with real gurus of stock markets.

whitestar_999 said:
Forget about those youtube analysts & gurus, typical retail investor never come in contact with real gurus of stock markets.

I saw a channel by Pranjal Kamra on youtube, but mostly saw his videos on explaining how stuff works. Other than that I get recommendations from Axis (where I have my demat account). Axis' recommendations seem good till now, saw some of their old recommendations hitting the target price.

Anyways, I understand that at the end it's my risk, so for now just playing it safe with big company recommendations which will likely continue growing.

Once thing you need to understand is no-one can "predict" the market. They can only "estimate", based on various technical and fundamental analysis.
That's why you need to invest in diversification, while being wary of over diversification and portfolio overlaps.
And Pranjal Kamra is a great Youtuber. But he's a very conservative investor, while I like to try my hands dirty with riskier investments.

Working on writing a blog on my favourite "financial education Youtubers" soon.

Vyom said:
Once thing you need to understand is no-one can "predict" the market. They can only "estimate", based on various technical and fundamental analysis.
That's why you need to invest in diversification, while being wary of over diversification and portfolio overlaps.
And Pranjal Kamra is a great Youtuber. But he's a very conservative investor, while I like to try my hands dirty with riskier investments.

Working on writing a blog on my favourite "financial education Youtubers" soon.

Many people recommended him, hence started watching him. Any stock market user must acknowledge the risks, if you are not ready to lose the money in worst case, don't invest that amount. I had some free time, so started looking into it.

My friends have just searched about mutual funds a bit & invested in ELSS funds mostly. Although a friend of mine made like 10k profit last year in 6-7 months by investing like 10-15k when the market started recovering. Now he doesn't have time, so left stocks.

Waiting for your list.

W

omega44-xt said:
My friends have just searched about mutual funds a bit & invested in ELSS funds mostly. Although a friend of mine made like 10k profit last year in 6-7 months by investing like 10-15k when the market started recovering. Now he doesn't have time, so left stocks.

I know someone who was earning this same amount everyday by following typical youtube channels & whatsapp/TG groups & earned nearly 12 lakhs within 3-4 months only to lose all of it(incl even his original capital of around 1-2 lakh) in next couple of days. No need to mention that he was doing trading in intraday/futures/options segment. I also know people who invested heavily in shares like Yes Bank, Anil Ambani companies, DHFL etc only to end up losing lakhs. In short, directly investing/trading in stock market have never made anyone rich over the years. The huge amount one gets at the end of 15-20 years of MF investment/ETF index funds like niftybees/buying shares of bluechip companies like reliance hdfc etc after adjusting for inflation is just the recommended amount to live your post-retirement life comfortably.
@Vyom

Problem with directly investing in stocks is that it's extremely risky. Some even say that Intraday is "the most" risky form of investing.
While "intraday" is beyond the scope of this thread (you can create a separate thread to discuss it), I would like to share this video, which arranges the "form" of investment in increasing order:

W

Vyom said:
Problem with directly investing in stocks is that it's extremely risky. Some even say that Intraday is "the most" risky form of investing.

Directly investing in shares of top bluechip companies is pretty safe, you can buy shares of reliance, hdfc, tcs, infosys etc today & forget about them for 10 years & you will most likely end up with good returns. Intraday is nothing much in front of futures & options as far as overall risk is concerned. Main reason for this being, you cannot carry forward intraday trades.

whitestar_999 said:
Do not get involved in trading beyond a casual investment of 10-20k. By trading it is traditionally mean intraday, future & options. All these are for experts only.

As they say 90% new traders loose 90% of their capital in the first 90 days.

whitestar_999 said:
Forget about those youtube analysts & gurus, typical retail investor never come in contact with real gurus of stock markets.

The real gurus/the operators don't want anyone to know the real shit that goes anyway. These youtubers give good advice to people who know nothing about investing .. which is good in a way. As the most densely populated country in the world only 2/3% of us invest in our economy and struggle with life living in the E quadrant (If they have a job as in ) explained by Robert Kiyosaki.

Small SIPs is the only way out for most of us... for starters atleast.

Hey guys! I am back with another question.

I was thinking instead of keeping money in Savings account, why not invest in Liquid funds? Say I have 20K, I want to invest it instead of keeping it in savings account but I also want to withdraw this entire amount immediately in case of emergency. In this sense, savings accounts is best but if we compare it against FD or liquid funds for small amounts, how good is it?
Currently I have account in ICICI and it has 3% interest rate. FD in ICICI bank for 1 year has return of at least 4% interest. How is this FD against a Liquid fund e.g. Edelweiss Liquid Fund Direct Growth?
Note: This investment will be lumpsum, not SIP.

I am aware of the IDFC returns on savings account but it will be hard for me maintain several bank accounts and I am also lazy to go through entire process of opening accounts.

TheSloth said:
Hey guys! I am back with another question.

I was thinking instead of keeping money in Savings account, why not invest in Liquid funds? Say I have 20K, I want to invest it instead of keeping it in savings account but I also want to withdraw this entire amount immediately in case of emergency. In this sense, savings accounts is best but if we compare it against FD or liquid funds for small amounts, how good is it?
Currently I have account in ICICI and it has 3% interest rate. FD in ICICI bank for 1 year has return of at least 4% interest. How is this FD against a Liquid fund e.g. Edelweiss Liquid Fund Direct Growth?
Note: This investment will be lumpsum, not SIP.

I am aware of the IDFC returns on savings account but it will be hard for me maintain several bank accounts and I am also lazy to go through entire process of opening accounts.

Things like IDFC popup every few years and dissapear when a lot of people use them. Only way to make any significant profit is to have an account from the start

W

TheSloth said:
Hey guys! I am back with another question.

I was thinking instead of keeping money in Savings account, why not invest in Liquid funds? Say I have 20K, I want to invest it instead of keeping it in savings account but I also want to withdraw this entire amount immediately in case of emergency. In this sense, savings accounts is best but if we compare it against FD or liquid funds for small amounts, how good is it?
Currently I have account in ICICI and it has 3% interest rate. FD in ICICI bank for 1 year has return of at least 4% interest. How is this FD against a Liquid fund e.g. Edelweiss Liquid Fund Direct Growth?
Note: This investment will be lumpsum, not SIP.

I am aware of the IDFC returns on savings account but it will be hard for me maintain several bank accounts and I am also lazy to go through entire process of opening accounts.

For such small amount of 20k you don't need to consider liquid funds. Just make FD in paytm payments bank which has partnered with indusind bank to give decent fd rates with best feature being no premature withdrawal charges(aka breaking fd earlier than its duration) so it is practically as good as savings acc.

Nerevarine said:
Things like IDFC popup every few years and dissapear when a lot of people use them. Only way to make any significant profit is to have an account from the start

If more people use it then company goes in loss cause of their high interest returns provided to customer?

whitestar_999 said:
For such small amount of 20k you don't need to consider liquid funds. Just make FD in paytm payments bank which has partnered with indusind bank to give decent fd rates with best feature being no premature withdrawal charges(aka breaking fd earlier than its duration) so it is practically as good as savings acc.

Sounds good so I tried to check the Paytm website but it looks like I must install app to even login on web account. Sigh ...
Two things:
1. FD : Can I withdraw amount whenever I want? Is that same thing you mentioned as no premature withdrawal charges?
2. They will do KYC to activate FD feature on the account?

I tried to read on ICICI website about FDs but could not find about the lock period. I was not reading it thoroughly though.

W

TheSloth said:
If more people use it then company goes in loss cause of their high interest returns provided to customer?

Sounds good so I tried to check the Paytm website but it looks like I must install app to even login on web account. Sigh ...
Two things:
1. FD : Can I withdraw amount whenever I want? Is that same thing you mentioned as no premature withdrawal charges?
2. They will do KYC to activate FD feature on the account?

I tried to read on ICICI website about FDs but could not find about the lock period. I was not reading it thoroughly though.

You must install paytm app & then do video kyc to open paytm payments bank acc(do it anyway as it is free & paytm payments bank has the record of highest success rate of upi transactions among all banks with over 99% upi transactions always successful).

1. Yes you can withdraw anytime you want with the condition being that you will get interest rate as per the period fd remained in force before withdrawal.
2. See above.

Rates will be same as Indusind bank FD rates:

Man I am so much confused in between Zerodha and Groww to keep track of my long term SIP investments. Groww provides good data about the Funds if we scroll down the page which is nice. Zerodha doesn't have that. Why is Zerodha preferred by majority of people?

Several Zerodha users shared their experience on reddit about excellent data and tracking facilities from Zerodha but I am unable to find it. I did a 1k investment in MF on zerodha just to check how things look here but there is not much to see. It seems Zerodha is for people who are into Stock Trading and all that, for whom they have good graphs and data available on Console. For simple things like MFs they do not have much on their Coin or Console webpage.

I will only do SIPs in MFs. No Intraday or F&O or such things because I do not have time to learn those.
What am I missing here?

TheSloth said:
Man I am so much confused in between Zerodha and Groww to keep track of my long term SIP investments. Groww provides good data about the Funds if we scroll down the page which is nice. Zerodha doesn't have that. Why is Zerodha preferred by majority of people?

Several Zerodha users shared their experience on reddit about excellent data and tracking facilities from Zerodha but I am unable to find it. I did a 1k investment in MF on zerodha just to check how things look here but there is not much to see. It seems Zerodha is for people who are into Stock Trading and all that, for whom they have good graphs and data available on Console. For simple things like MFs they do not have much on their Coin or Console webpage.

I will only do SIPs in MFs. No Intraday or F&O or such things because I do not have time to learn those.
What am I missing here?

Because zerodha is for trading. For mutual funds only you don't need it.. not even a demat account. Look up difference between the two.

Zerodha actually has a number of apps for different kinds of investments. Kite is used for stock trading, Coin for mutual funds, Varsity for learning stock trading and Smallcase for SIPs. So, for mutual funds, you must be using Coin.

Desmond said:
Zerodha actually has a number of apps for different kinds of investments. Kite is used for stock trading, Coin for mutual funds, Varsity for learning stock trading and Smallcase for SIPs. So, for mutual funds, you must be using Coin.

Mycams and kfinkart covers all mutual funds.

TheSloth said:
Man I am so much confused in between Zerodha and Groww to keep track of my long term SIP investments. Groww provides good data about the Funds if we scroll down the page which is nice. Zerodha doesn't have that. Why is Zerodha preferred by majority of people?

Several Zerodha users shared their experience on reddit about excellent data and tracking facilities from Zerodha but I am unable to find it. I did a 1k investment in MF on zerodha just to check how things look here but there is not much to see. It seems Zerodha is for people who are into Stock Trading and all that, for whom they have good graphs and data available on Console. For simple things like MFs they do not have much on their Coin or Console webpage.

I will only do SIPs in MFs. No Intraday or F&O or such things because I do not have time to learn those.
What am I missing here?

I have tried Zerodha, Upstox & Groww. My recommendation for most casual users will be Groww. It's very easy to use & the UI is pretty good. The brokerage is reasonable if you plan to invest in stocks as well.

For ease of use, IMO - Groww > Zerodha > Upstox. Zerodha loses some points according to me because it doesn't have everything at one place. Considering there's no brokerage for direct MFs, I decided to use Groww for all my MFs & their SIPs. Using upstox & zerodha for stocks. Between these two, Zerodha is slightly better IMO. 1 major con of Upstox for me is high demat transaction charge of like ~₹22 vs ~₹16 in most other brokers.

So I'll close my Upstox account later & continue using Zerodha & Groww. Groww has added multiple watchlists in the desktop version, which likely will be added in the android app soon.

I am aware that I don't need Demat account for MF related investments. I am comparing Coin and Groww.
So bascially Zerodha has upper hand when it comes to managing trading accounts? No extra facilities in Coin over Groww for MFs?
-----------------------
Update after above post

Yes I also liked the simplicity of Groww UI. On Coin I can't event find out which MF is good since they list all the MFs under a index based on alphabetical order. So basically I need all the info in advance about MFs and Coin is just a platform to invest in MFs.

omega44-xt said:
I have tried Zerodha, Upstox & Groww. My recommendation for most casual users will be Groww. It's very easy to use & the UI is pretty good. The brokerage is reasonable if you plan to invest in stocks as well.

For ease of use, IMO - Groww > Zerodha > Upstox. Zerodha loses some points according to me because it doesn't have everything at one place. Considering there's no brokerage for direct MFs, I decided to use Groww for all my MFs & their SIPs. Using upstox & zerodha for stocks. Between these two, Zerodha is slightly better IMO. 1 major con of Upstox for me is high demat transaction charge of like ~₹22 vs ~₹16 in most other brokers.

So I'll close my Upstox account later & continue using Zerodha & Groww. Groww has added multiple watchlists in the desktop version, which likely will be added in the android app soon.

If you have a Zerodha Demat account...Add Bluechip stocks on an SIP basis

Keep it simple. Just look up good funds on valueresearchonline. Start SIPS in official sites of whatever mutual fund you get and you'll see it all in mycams and kfinkart. Third party apps are not needed really.

W

TheSloth said:
I am aware that I don't need Demat account for MF related investments. I am comparing Coin and Groww.

Actually zerodha keeps your MF units also in demat account which is not the case if you invest in MF directly via MF house site.
@Desmond @omega44-xt @rockfella

whitestar_999 said:
Actually zerodha keeps your MF units also in demat account which is not the case if you invest in MF directly via MF house site.
@Desmond @omega44-xt @rockfella

Any benefit of buying directly from MF house vs buying direct MFs from Groww or Zerodha, etc?

omega44-xt said:
Any benefit of buying directly from MF house vs buying direct MFs from Groww or Zerodha, etc?

Not much benefits. As long as you invest in "direct" funds instead of "regular" there's no difference in brokerage.
It's just that it's not recommended to hold funds in demat account (like zerodha). It's the reason I switched from coin zerodha and moved to Kuvera to invest in funds.
I like Kuvera's UI and goal planning feature.

Vyom said:
Not much benefits. As long as you invest in "direct" funds instead of "regular" there's no difference in brokerage.
It's just that it's not recommended to hold funds in demat account (like zerodha). It's the reason I switched from coin zerodha and moved to Kuvera to invest in funds.
I like Kuvera's UI and goal planning feature.

Why is it not recommended?

Vyom said:
Not much benefits. As long as you invest in "direct" funds instead of "regular" there's no difference in brokerage.
It's just that it's not recommended to hold funds in demat account (like zerodha). It's the reason I switched from coin zerodha and moved to Kuvera to invest in funds.
I like Kuvera's UI and goal planning feature.

1 reason for not using demat account is AMC charges. But Groww has 0 AMC, at least for now.

omega44-xt said:
1 reason for not using demat account is AMC charges. But Groww has 0 AMC, at least for now.

Flyers...Life-Time Free AMC
Advanced User Integration in all aspects...But complicate for new users

omega44-xt said:
Any benefit of buying directly from MF house vs buying direct MFs from Groww or Zerodha, etc?

Not really. I did that back in 2017 and still do the same. Just keeps everything simple.

Vyom said:
Not much benefits. As long as you invest in "direct" funds instead of "regular" there's no difference in brokerage.
It's just that it's not recommended to hold funds in demat account (like zerodha). It's the reason I switched from coin zerodha and moved to Kuvera to invest in funds.
I like Kuvera's UI and goal planning feature.

Kuvera eventually gets all info from mycams and kfinkart. There is a SIP Planner by Ankit Agarwal on play store. I think it is the ultimate planner. He has even integrated taxes in his app. Check it out.

I also thought earlier to directly manage funds from AMC website but its hard to manage 3-4 accounts and remember passwords. Another thing is, AMC own website might vary a lot in UI terms and not be as simple as Groww or Zerodha. Then getting used to different UIs on different sites. It was better to manage everything under 1 hood

TheSloth said:
I also thought earlier to directly manage funds from AMC website but its hard to manage 3-4 accounts and remember passwords. Another thing is, AMC own website might vary a lot in UI terms and not be as simple as Groww or Zerodha. Then getting used to different UIs on different sites. It was better to manage everything under 1 hood

That is a valid point but for some reason I always like to initiate SIPS from official website. If you ever want to pause/start new SIPs for higher/lower amount one might as well get used to their main site. Some are very simple some too complicated. Mirae is one jantar mantar site. Parag Parikh is really simple.

W

TheSloth said:
Why is it not recommended?

Demat transactions are relatively not as fast as direct MF unit transactions especially selling so in case of selling of MF units via demat acc the money will come later compared to selling directly via MF site/non-demat way. There is also demat acc charge but it is not much.
@omega44-xt

whitestar_999 said:
Demat transactions are relatively not as fast as direct MF unit transactions especially selling so in case of selling of MF units via demat acc the money will come later compared to selling directly via MF site/non-demat way. There is also demat acc charge but it is not much.
@omega44-xt

Any idea how late? I recently redeemed MF units from my father's SBI MF bought via SBI itself. It took almost 4-5 business days to be credited.

While purchasing MF using Groww, it takes like 3 days for it to reflect in my account.

omega44-xt said:
Any idea how late? I recently redeemed MF units from my father's SBI MF bought via SBI itself. It took almost 4-5 business days to be credited.

While purchasing MF using Groww, it takes like 3 days for it to reflect in my account.

I withdrew on Aug 18th got it yesterday, Takes about a week.

rockfella said:
I withdrew on Aug 18th got it yesterday, Takes about a week.

So similar to how long it took directly from SBI MF website. I will prefer to have everything neatly arranged in one place at Groww.

omega44-xt said:
So similar to how long it took directly from SBI MF website. I will prefer to have everything neatly arranged in one place at Groww.

These funds have to follow some government rules ( I don' know the details as the rules keep on changing) so it does not matter what app you use to withdraw. Let me try GROWW and update you.
EDIT: Just tried. They are asking me to import statements from mycams and kfinkart. I don't see the use of this app. You can use mycams and kfinkart both. Best practice.

rockfella said:
These funds have to follow some government rules ( I don' know the details as the rules keep on changing) so it does not matter what app you use to withdraw. Let me try GROWW and update you.
EDIT: Just tried. They are asking me to import statements from mycams and kfinkart. I don't see the use of this app. You can use mycams and kfinkart both. Best practice.

If you import statement from CAMS, you can see it in Groww, that's it. I think they also recommend the best time to switch from regular to direct MF, if you are investing in regular one. Not used these 2 features myself. For some reason my father's SBI MF wasn't getting a proper statement from CAMS.

I started my SIPs to MF from Groww & Groww has been my goto recommendation for most people for the same. That's it. If you are already using, say Zerodha, and aren't bothered by AMC, not much point trying to switch to Groww.

omega44-xt said:
If you import statement from CAMS, you can see it in Groww, that's it. I think they also recommend the best time to switch from regular to direct MF, if you are investing in regular one. Not used these 2 features myself. For some reason my father's SBI MF wasn't getting a proper statement from CAMS.

I started my SIPs to MF from Groww & Groww has been my goto recommendation for most people for the same. That's it. If you are already using, say Zerodha, and aren't bothered by AMC, not much point trying to switch to Groww.

Still it makes no sense for me to use groww. I avoid third party apps. Mycams and kfinkart does everything for me. The daily changes I see is good. Importing statements is another pita.

W

omega44-xt said:
Any idea how late? I recently redeemed MF units from my father's SBI MF bought via SBI itself. It took almost 4-5 business days to be credited.

While purchasing MF using Groww, it takes like 3 days for it to reflect in my account.

Basically add 1-2 days more to whatever days it take to get credit from MF own site after redeeming units.

whitestar_999 said:
Basically add 1-2 days more to whatever days it take to get credit from MF own site after redeeming units.

Doesn't seem like a big deal. Groww seems very convenient to have everything in one place. Hopefully, they keep it 0 AMC for years to come. Your mileage might vary.

W

omega44-xt said:
Doesn't seem like a big deal. Groww seems very convenient to have everything in one place. Hopefully, they keep it 0 AMC for years to come. Your mileage might vary.

Another thing is "portability". MF units in demat acc are not as portable as MF units directly held with MF so it is faster to switch/transfer.

whitestar_999 said:
Another thing is "portability". MF units in demat acc are not as portable as MF units directly held with MF so it is faster to switch/transfer.

Transferring as in change MF plan?

W

omega44-xt said:
Transferring as in change MF plan?

Yes, switching between schemes of same MF house.

https://imgur.com/a/4MH39cZ

W

shreeux said:
https://imgur.com/a/4MH39cZ

Zerodha will have less space to deploy its cost cutting plans in MF field as major portion of expenses is in built into the MF plans in form of Regular vs Direct plans.

I don't know what to say about newspaper article headlines, but it sure isn't a "tipping point" for anything.
The way I see it, more choices the better.

Vyom said:
I don't know what to say about newspaper article headlines, but it sure isn't a "tipping point" for anything.
The way I see it, more choices the better.

Best is to avoid any news.

so, i had create a few sips few months ago, and now i want to increase monthly amount to one of the funds. so, what to do, should i create another sip with the same fund?

also, is it a good time to invest lumpsum ? funds appears to be proceeding at a straight slope.

icebags said:
so, i had create a few sips few months ago, and now i want to increase monthly amount to one of the funds. so, what to do, should i create another sip with the same fund?

also, is it a good time to invest lumpsum ? funds appears to be proceeding at a straight slope.

Depends on how & from where you are doing SIPs. You should be able to edit SIP, if not, delete the old SIP & create a new SIP.

omega44-xt said:
Depends on how & from where you are doing SIPs. You should be able to edit SIP, if not, delete the old SIP & create a new SIP.

it's at hdfc. is there any issue in having multiple sip with same fund ?

W

icebags said:
it's at hdfc. is there any issue in having multiple sip with same fund ?

There should be no issue but just to be on safe side keep sip amounts different.

icebags said:
also, is it a good time to invest lumpsum ? funds appears to be proceeding at a straight slope.

It's definitely doesn't seem to be a good time for lumpsun. Markets at all time high, and are showing signs of weakness. It's best to maintain some cash for seeking opportunities.
But SIP, you can get it increased if you want to increase the amount to invest monthly.

Don't time it too much with MFs. Any day you see significant selling pressure do an investment the same day to get units alloted

Sent via Tapatalk

W

thetechfreak said:
Don't time it too much with MFs. Any day you see significant selling pressure do an investment the same day to get units alloted

Sent via Tapatalk

There is a certain period of delay between investing money in MF & getting the MF units, it is not like direct buying of equities at the current market price. In any case the units you get are always calculated at the market closing price/market opening price(depending on the time of the day of MF money investment).

whitestar_999 said:
There should be no issue but just to be on safe side keep sip amounts different.

Vyom said:
It's definitely doesn't seem to be a good time for lumpsun. Markets at all time high, and are showing signs of weakness. It's best to maintain some cash for seeking opportunities.
But SIP, you can get it increased if you want to increase the amount to invest monthly.

thanks for suggestions.

thetechfreak said:
Don't time it too much with MFs. Any day you see significant selling pressure do an investment the same day to get units alloted

Sent via Tapatalk

what you mean ? :chinscratch:

icebags said:
what you mean ?

Don't worry about timing the market with mutual funds. If you see index negative, start the SIP and get units that day itself. MF is more about consistency of SIP rather than lump-sum on a "bad market" day

whitestar_999 said:
There is a certain period of delay between investing money in MF & getting the MF units,

With zerodha(or similar), you can get units alloted same day when investing on a direct plan of a MF. Check it here: What is the cut-off time for mutual fund transactions on Coin?

W

thetechfreak said:
With zerodha(or similar), you can get units alloted same day when investing on a direct plan of a MF. Check it here: What is the cut-off time for mutual fund transactions on Coin?

It says "end of the day" NAV will be applicable if applied within cutoff time so if market recovers by the end of the day after a drop then it won't help but if market stays down/recover a little by the day's end then it is fine.

I have been investing SIP in ELSS Mirae and Canera Robeco tax saving funds for last 6 months. But since last month I am seeing decline in the returns, in Canera Robeco my current amount is -500. Any idea if should continue to invest in these? I have already declared this for income tax deductions.

TheSloth said:
I have been investing SIP in ELSS Mirae and Canera Robeco tax saving funds for last 6 months. But since last month I am seeing decline in the returns, in Canera Robeco my current amount is -500. Any idea if should continue to invest in these? I have already declared this for income tax deductions.

Market fell a lot last month. Those ELSS MFs are equity based MFs, so are definitely linked to the market.

omega44-xt said:
Market fell a lot last month. Those ELSS MFs are equity based MFs, so are definitely linked to the market.

Yes. I came to know only after seeing my returns in Groww app.

Thinking if I should stop the SIP for these long term MFs.

Is this sudden dip because of over inflated market? which everyone was talking about for last 6 months.

TheSloth said:
Yes. I came to know only after seeing my returns in Groww app.

Thinking if I should stop the SIP for these long term MFs.

Is this sudden dip because of over inflated market? which everyone was talking about for last 6 months.

Not an expert to comment if the market will continue its negative sentiments.

W

TheSloth said:
I have been investing SIP in ELSS Mirae and Canera Robeco tax saving funds for last 6 months. But since last month I am seeing decline in the returns, in Canera Robeco my current amount is -500. Any idea if should continue to invest in these? I have already declared this for income tax deductions.

It is usual in such volatile market, for a typical 10 years cycle though such fluctuations don't even matter.

TheSloth said:
I have been investing SIP in ELSS Mirae and Canera Robeco tax saving funds for last 6 months. But since last month I am seeing decline in the returns, in Canera Robeco my current amount is -500. Any idea if should continue to invest in these? I have already declared this for income tax deductions.

I this Mirae fund put 1-2% of their AUM into paytm IPO also which is why the NAV might have gone down a bit. Other than that market has corrected 8-10% from the tops it formed.

whitestar_999 said:
It is usual in such volatile market, for a typical 10 years cycle though such fluctuations don't even matter.

I heard similar comments in youtube videos I watched earlier which make sense. But I am just sacared because many people also speak that MF and all is not at all safe people lives gets ruined because they took huge risk of putting their life savings in MF instead of PPF/FD. Hopefully we don't see such returns after 10 yrs.

thetechfreak said:
I this Mirae fund put 1-2% of their AUM into paytm IPO also which is why the NAV might have gone down a bit. Other than that market has corrected 8-10% from the tops it formed.

Yeah even I thought that's the case but MF has several funds; their Tax Saver did not include Paytm but other 3 funds did. More on this reddit page. I checked Mirae holdings in Groww and could not find Paytm in that list.

This is the greatest advantage of Mfs VS direct stocks. I don't think this paytm IPO will have much impact on folks who have invested in Mfs who have invested in paytm ipo.

In the long run a good fund manager and your subsequent SIPs will be sufficient to get back whatever hit the NAV of the mutual fund took with paytm

Sent via Tapatalk

W

TheSloth said:
I heard similar comments in youtube videos I watched earlier which make sense. But I am just sacared because many people also speak that MF and all is not at all safe people lives gets ruined because they took huge risk of putting their life savings in MF instead of PPF/FD. Hopefully we don't see such returns after 10 yrs.

Just like everything, there are also bad MFs but no decent/good MF will give less return than FD over a period of 10 years.

I was planning to invest in another MF, just small amounts like 1-2k on monthly basis as long as possible(at least 7-8yrs). Is Axis Blue Chip Large Cap still the suggested fund or I should look at other investment options.
Another question is, could Niftybees be a good long term investment option? Since I am already investing in ELSS MF(to save more on tax), I thought of investing in this instead of another Large Cap MF.

TheSloth said:
I was planning to invest in another MF, just small amounts like 1-2k on monthly basis as long as possible(at least 7-8yrs). Is Axis Blue Chip Large Cap still the suggested fund or I should look at other investment options.
Another question is, could Niftybees be a good long term investment option? Since I am already investing in ELSS MF(to save more on tax), I thought of investing in this instead of another Large Cap MF.

Whatever MF u have expect 15-20% growth in the long run not more. Anything more is a bonus. Check Parag Parikh flexi cap. If you want a small cap fund Kotak emerging equities is a good one too.

rockfella said:
Whatever MF u have expect 15-20% growth in the long run not more. Anything more is a bonus. Check Parag Parikh flexi cap. If you want a small cap fund Kotak emerging equities is a good one too.

Thanks for suggestions. I shall check these.
Also, 15-20% returns is too much to expect when inflation comes in picture, imo. I think 12% return is modest and at best. I think money control website let one calculates the returns by keeping inflation rate in picture. End numbers were quite disappointing actually but still better than FD and even PPF.
(excuse my english grammar here. "let one calculates..."No idea what should be correct sentence here. Could anyone correct me here?)

TheSloth said:
Thanks for suggestions. I shall check these.
Also, 15-20% returns is too much to expect when inflation comes in picture, imo. I think 12% return is modest and at best. I think money control website let one calculates the returns by keeping inflation rate in picture. End numbers were quite disappointing actually but still better than FD and even PPF.
(excuse my english grammar here. "let one calculates..."No idea what should be correct sentence here. Could anyone correct me here?)

True! These numbers can be very diff if you have invested aggressively last year. Gosh you reminded me of inflation. I am thinking crypto now.

TheSloth said:
Thanks for suggestions. I shall check these.
Also, 15-20% returns is too much to expect when inflation comes in picture, imo. I think 12% return is modest and at best. I think money control website let one calculates the returns by keeping inflation rate in picture. End numbers were quite disappointing actually but still better than FD and even PPF.
(excuse my english grammar here. "let one calculates..."No idea what should be correct sentence here. Could anyone correct me here?)

PPF/FD are safe investments with guaranteed returns. You should deposit necessary amount in them and invest remaining disposable income in Stocks/MF (which you don't care even if you incur loss)

Zangetsu said:
PPF/FD are safe investments with guaranteed returns. You should deposit necessary amount in them and invest remaining disposable income in Stocks/MF (which you don't care even if you incur loss)

Losses in Mfs are very rare. I was thinking 7-8% vs 12%. Mfs still better than PPF definitely Fds. FDs hover at 5-8. Indian inflation is average 7.

@rockfella Oh no! Investing 10K per month is a huge thing! Even after investing 12L the maturity amount is just 26L.
BTW what app is this?

TheSloth said:
@rockfella Oh no! Investing 10K per month is a huge thing! Even after investing 12L the maturity amount is just 26L.
BTW what app is this?

I deleted the post because I am not sure what it means really.

rockfella said:
Losses in Mfs are very rare. I was thinking 7-8% vs 12%. Mfs still better than PPF definitely Fds. FDs hover at 5-8. Indian inflation is average 7.

Not True. MF(s) are nothing but stocks options and are subject to market risks. Only difference is you don't have to worry about managing it.
In 2008 recession many people in India lost their 10~12 years of investment in Market Crash including MF.

Zangetsu said:
Not True. MF(s) are nothing but stocks options and are subject to market risks. Only difference is you don't have to worry about managing it.
In 2008 recession many people in India lost their 10~12 years of investment in Market Crash including MF.

2008 crash was big. 60% drop that recovered in 18/20 months. Let's say you have 1 lakh in MFs (not stocks) and it dropped to 40 L and you kept on investing more all the while it recovered .. won't your portfolio be + after 2 years?

rockfella said:
2008 crash was big. 60% drop that recovered in 18/20 months. Let's say you have 1 lakh in MFs (not stocks) and it dropped to 40 L and you kept on investing more all the while it recovered .. won't your portfolio be + after 2 years?

That's correct but don't say Loses are rare. Investors are gaining and losing money everyday. That's why they say Investments (Stocks, MF) are subject to market risks please read the offer document carefully.

Today if your MF portfolio is showing 20% returns tomorrow it could be 10%. Everything is a gamble here and luck.

Zangetsu said:
That's correct but don't say Loses are rare. Investors are gaining and losing money everyday. That's why they say Investments (Stocks, MF) are subject to market risks please read the offer document carefully.

Same person (who had 1 L invested) after crash had withdrawn all his MFs would have been at a 100% loss right?

Zangetsu said:
That's correct but don't say Loses are rare. Investors are gaining and losing money everyday. That's why they say Investments (Stocks, MF) are subject to market risks please read the offer document carefully.

Yes it is. 100% subject to market risks but more risky if investors don't use their head and go by their feelings : My point.
Lot of times we have no choice. When crashes happen and many loose jobs, in order to sustain life they either run out of their savings or have no savings or have to withdraw from MFs to survive. That is one thing we have no control on maybe. So all this we discuss here is diff than what happens with families who loose jobs/have less savings.

rockfella said:
Same person (who had 1 L invested) after crash had withdrawn all his MFs would have been at a 100% loss right?

It depends also upon the investor. Some wait for the market to stabilize and sell the stocks/MF.
I have friends who invest only with Goal price in Mind. For e.g they buy a shares for 100 per share and wait for it to become at least 110~130 and then when it reaches there they simply sell it to make Money. If in case it crashes down to 90 they wait and may change their target price.

Zangetsu said:
It depends also upon the investor. Some wait for the market to stabilize and sell the stocks/MF.
I have friends who invest only with Goal price in Mind. For e.g they buy a shares for 100 per share and wait for it to become at least 110~130 and then when it reaches there they simply sell it to make Money. If in case it crashes down to 90 they wait and may change their target price.

Depends on the stocks they buy too. Some think buying penny stocks is clever, then the stock never rises (as the company is shitty) and they loose money or hold it for a decade in hope.

rockfella said:
Yes it is. 100% subject to market risks but more risky if investors don't use their head and go by their feelings : My point.
Lot of times we have no choice. When crashes happen and many loose jobs, in order to sustain life they either run out of their savings or have no savings or have to withdraw from MFs to survive. That is one thing we have no control on maybe.

It would be foolish for anyone in this world to invest all their Savings entirely in MF(s) or Stocks. Even the Market Guru(s) don't spend their entire Savings in Market just for making higher profit due to GREED.
If you plan your Finances properly you won't have to worry about your future income. That is why have a Balance portfolio with mix of everything.

My Friend lost 15 lakh rupees in Stock market long time back and there are many Horror stories about people losing more.

We really need to know this in details. Last year my whole portfolio was negative. I invested heavily and now it is +. If I had withdrawn everything the loss would have been beyond recovery.

Zangetsu said:
It would be foolish for anyone in this world to invest all their Savings entirely in MF(s) or Stocks. Even the Market Guru(s) don't spend their entire Savings in Market just for making higher profit due to GREED. If you plan your Finances properly you won't have to worry about your future income. That is why have a Balance portfolio with mix of everything.

Point

rockfella said:
We really need to know this in details. Last year my whole portfolio was negative. I invested heavily and now it is +. If I had withdrawn everything the loss would have been beyond recovery.

Your perspective and patience that would come into play. If you set a Goal for your investment(s) then you will always be in a good shape.

If you know about local Co-operative banks in your City they give more interest than Commercial Bank(s) on FD/RD which is around 9~12% and are Risky too bcoz they can Close their Shutter anytime and can run away with all the investors Money. But still people take risk and invest in them.

Higher Risk = Higher Reward.

W

Zangetsu said:
Today if your MF portfolio is showing 20% returns tomorrow it could be 10%. Everything is a gamble here and luck.

Not correct. You think hdfc, reliance, icici, kotak, axis, tcs, infosys etc are going to close down even in next 10-15 years? A good large cap MF invests in such companies only which are basically an indicator of a country's economy. If such companies start closing down then no hope from anything in that country's economy whether it is FD or PPF or land.

I never talked about HDFC/Reliance will close down. And you are talking about the 3rd category of MF which is Large Cap Fund. Every investor knows about Small/Mid-Cap/Large-Cap funds and the proportion of Risk(s) involved with each and how they work.
No company will give guarantee to its investor that it will give X% of returns in X amount of time and also it does not take time for any Company(s) to Shut down its operations. E.g.: Bankruptcy/Company Scandal/False Balance Sheet are various events which bring down the money of investor down to ZERO.

Zangetsu said:
It would be foolish for anyone in this world to invest all their Savings entirely in MF(s) or Stocks. Even the Market Guru(s) don't spend their entire Savings in Market just for making higher profit due to GREED.
If you plan your Finances properly you won't have to worry about your future income. That is why have a Balance portfolio with mix of everything.

My Friend lost 15 lakh rupees in Stock market long time back and there are many Horror stories about people losing more.

Do you know of any stories people loosing money in MFs only?

whitestar_999 said:
Not correct. You think hdfc, reliance, icici, kotak, axis, tcs, infosys etc are going to close down even in next 10-15 years? A good large cap MF invests in such companies only which are basically an indicator of a country's economy. If such companies start closing down then no hope from anything in that country's economy whether it is FD or PPF or land.

True. Last march ICICI FD rates were hovering at 3-4% IIRC.

Zangetsu said:
I never talked about HDFC/Reliance will close down. And you are talking about the 3rd category of MF which is Large Cap Fund. Every investor knows about Small/Mid-Cap/Large-Cap funds and the proportion of Risk(s) involved with each and how they work.
No company will give guarantee to its investor that it will give X% of returns in X amount of time and also it does not take time for any Company(s) to Shut down its operations. E.g.: Bankruptcy/Company Scandal/False Balance Sheet are various events which bring down the money of investor down to ZERO.

To avoid this most MFs invest in large mid and small caps to balance out these situations. Zero can only happen if you invest in crappy stocks and the company shuts down.

Zangetsu said:
Your perspective and patience that would come into play. If you set a Goal for your investment(s) then you will always be in a good shape.

If you know about local Co-operative banks in your City they give more interest than Commercial Bank(s) on FD/RD which is around 9~12% and are Risky too bcoz they can Close their Shutter anytime and can run away with all the investors Money. But still people take risk and invest in them.

Higher Risk = Higher Reward.

This high risk is foolish imho. I would rather do PPF or increase my VPF instead of trusting these shutter down prone banks.

rockfella said:
Do you know of any stories people loosing money in MFs only?

Not particular one but MF(s) are not full proof. They rely of Stocks or other Bonds and show the up/down as per market. I took only 2 MF(s) last year and it was showing +growth of 32~34k profit and today its showing 28k

Zangetsu said:
That's correct but don't say Loses are rare. Investors are gaining and losing money everyday. That's why they say Investments (Stocks, MF) are subject to market risks please read the offer document carefully.

Today if your MF portfolio is showing 20% returns tomorrow it could be 10%. Everything is a gamble here and luck.

Yes that's why average returns can be approximately 15/20 over a decade or 2. Traders loose gain money everyday not really mf investors unless they withdraw at a loss.

Zangetsu said:
Not particular one but MF(s) are not full proof. They rely of Stocks or other Bonds and show the up/down as per market. I took only 2 MF(s) last year and it was showing +growth of 32~34k profit and today its showing 28k

Bro nothing is fool proof. Murphy's law applies on everything

what are some good axis equity funds for sip ? please suggest.

whitestar_999 said:
Not correct. You think hdfc, reliance, icici, kotak, axis, tcs, infosys etc are going to close down even in next 10-15 years? A good large cap MF invests in such companies only which are basically an indicator of a country's economy. If such companies start closing down then no hope from anything in that country's economy whether it is FD or PPF or land.

if you sense such thing is going to happen, warn us please.

icebags said:
what are some good axis equity funds for sip ? please suggest.

Axis Bluechip Fund is one of the best among all MFs in India.

*www.etmoney.com/mutual-funds/axis-bluechip-fund-direct-plan-growth/15249

Can anyone recommend good index funds to invest in ?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

W

icebags said:
what are some good axis equity funds for sip ? please suggest.

if you sense such thing is going to happen, warn us please.

If I sense such thing I would be planning to get out of this country & advise others to do the same

On a more serious note, nothing short of world war 3(or until global Earth temp cross the 2 degree Celsius increase limit) would result in such a situation.

W

Zangetsu said:
I never talked about HDFC/Reliance will close down. And you are talking about the 3rd category of MF which is Large Cap Fund. Every investor knows about Small/Mid-Cap/Large-Cap funds and the proportion of Risk(s) involved with each and how they work.
No company will give guarantee to its investor that it will give X% of returns in X amount of time and also it does not take time for any Company(s) to Shut down its operations. E.g.: Bankruptcy/Company Scandal/False Balance Sheet are various events which bring down the money of investor down to ZERO.

The probability of getting hit by lightening while walking outside in typical monsoon season is also not zero(aka no guarantee you won't be hit by lightening in monsoon season while walking outside) but that doesn't mean one should not get out of house at all during monsoon season. You should also read about the rules & regulations of sebi under which all MFs in India operate.

Take a look at worst performing MFs in India for more than 5 years of opeeration & you will see that 3 of them are Gold traded funds which have nothing to do with market but rather the value of gold & the rest are debt funds(which again are not equity funds aka nothing much to do with market).

*www.fundsupermart.co.in/main/fundinfo/worst_Funds.svdo

@rockfella @TheSloth

thetechfreak said:
Axis Bluechip Fund is one of the best among all MFs in India.

*www.etmoney.com/mutual-funds/axis-bluechip-fund-direct-plan-growth/15249

right, so i invested some in bluechip. but how is axis triple advantage direct growth plan ?

W

icebags said:
right, so i invested some in bluechip. but how is axis triple advantage direct growth plan ?

Check its portfolio, it holds around 20% under "Others" category which mainly consists of MF units & TREPS so need some opinions from a more knowledgeable person in such matters. I will ask one such person & will update here whenever I get the reply.

whitestar_999 said:
The probability of getting hit by lightening while walking outside in typical monsoon season is also not zero(aka no guarantee you won't be hit by lightening in monsoon season while walking outside) but that doesn't mean one should not get out of house at all during monsoon season. You should also read about the rules & regulations of sebi under which all MFs in India operate.

Take a look at worst performing MFs in India for more than 5 years of opeeration & you will see that 3 of them are Gold traded funds which have nothing to do with market but rather the value of gold & the rest are debt funds(which again are not equity funds aka nothing much to do with market).

*www.fundsupermart.co.in/main/fundinfo/worst_Funds.svdo
@rockfella @TheSloth

How the gold ETF funds are in loss? I thought gold ETF bonds are the best gold related investment since they can be sold at exact current gold prices of the day(unlike gold jewelry which depreciate the moment one buys) and gold prices have always been increasing. Then how the these funds have incurred loss?

W

TheSloth said:
How the gold ETF funds are in loss? I thought gold ETF bonds are the best gold related investment since they can be sold at exact current gold prices of the day(unlike gold jewelry which depreciate the moment one buys) and gold prices have always been increasing. Then how the these funds have incurred loss?

Gold prices fluctuate a lot & they don't always increase(rule of thumb is when stock market is booming gold goes down & vice versa, very rare exceptions like corona times are there though) or their increase is less than inflation rate. Also that axis triple advantage fund is not a good option in the long term compared to bluechip fund as per my friend's opinion who knows much more about market.

icebags said:
right, so i invested some in bluechip. but how is axis triple advantage direct growth plan ?

It's not pure equity from what I find. It has investments in other mutual funds and a small amount is kept as FD too. 7% approx is put into government bonds too. It might not return too much compared to some pure equity MFs during a hard bull market but it will fall much less compared to those others during bear markets too.

If the shares don't overlap with your other mutual fund can look for this fund to bring a bit of stability to your portfolio as some are investments in debt and other fixed return schemes.

mayurthemad01 said:
Can anyone recommend good index funds to invest in ?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Personally, I feel it's better to do directly via NIFTY bees. Less tracking error and no issue of expense fees. No lock-in period that you can sell and buy like shares only.

Is this the Nifty Bee?

W

TheSloth said:
Is this the Nifty Bee?

Yes, you need to buy it directly from stock market just like you would buy share of a company.

TheSloth said:
How the gold ETF funds are in loss? I thought gold ETF bonds are the best gold related investment since they can be sold at exact current gold prices of the day(unlike gold jewelry which depreciate the moment one buys) and gold prices have always been increasing. Then how the these funds have incurred loss?

That is why gold is not an investment. Just an emotional purchase. Try convincing people.

whitestar_999 said:
Yes, you need to buy it directly from stock market just like you would buy share of a company.

Is this safe for long term investments, like MF? Where can I read more about this? or some youtube video?

TheSloth said:
Is this safe for long term investments, like MF? Where can I read more about this? or some youtube video?

Safety depends on the company itself. Now if you buy stocks of TCS you are very safe but if you pick up some penny stocks and expect it to balloon up you may loose your money. Similarly if you invest in good companies you can expect better returns than average 15-20% returns of MFs.

rockfella said:
Safety depends on the company itself. Now if you buy stocks of TCS you are very safe but if you pick up some penny stocks and expect it to balloon up you may loose your money. Similarly if you invest in good companies you can expect better returns than average 15-20% returns of MFs.

I don;t want to get stocks as of now. Since I still dont know how it all works. I am getting comfortable with MF but was curious about Nifty Bees since I heard about it few time now.

whitestar_999 said:
The probability of getting hit by lightening while walking outside in typical monsoon season is also not zero(aka no guarantee you won't be hit by lightening in monsoon season while walking outside) but that doesn't mean one should not get out of house at all during monsoon season. You should also read about the rules & regulations of sebi under which all MFs in India operate.

Take a look at worst performing MFs in India for more than 5 years of opeeration & you will see that 3 of them are Gold traded funds which have nothing to do with market but rather the value of gold & the rest are debt funds(which again are not equity funds aka nothing much to do with market).

*www.fundsupermart.co.in/main/fundinfo/worst_Funds.svdo
@rockfella @TheSloth

What kind of lame example is that Dude ? The probability of catching Corona is also there even if you wear Masks and Roam outside

Investing in Stock market or MF is not a Snooker game where you enter and exit at your convenience. Most of us select the MF based on its performance graph of last 2~5 yrs but that doesn't guarantee it will perform the same in next 4~5 years.
Making decision of selecting a Stock or MF is careful study of a Company day to day operation and by that it means the Balance Sheet/ P&L statement/Annual Report/Expense Ratio/Debt Ratio and other financial terms to Analyze which most of us don't do at all bcoz that is taken care of by the MF Fund manager to make our Job easier. That is why we pay to Stock Broker/Fund Manager to avoid the headache of looking at 3~4 monitors of fluctuating share prices graph.

And Debt funds are dependent on Market but they are less volatile than Equity.

*economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealt...ned-returns/articleshow/74622658.cms?from=mdr

TheSloth said:
How the gold ETF funds are in loss? I thought gold ETF bonds are the best gold related investment since they can be sold at exact current gold prices of the day(unlike gold jewelry which depreciate the moment one buys) and gold prices have always been increasing. Then how the these funds have incurred loss?

Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.

Zangetsu said:
Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.

Yes they did, not anymore. Compare historical CGR of gold and equity. You'll get the answer.

Zangetsu said:
What kind of lame example is that Dude ? The probability of catching Corona is also there even if you wear Masks and Roam outside

Investing in Stock market or MF is not a Snooker game where you enter and exit at your convenience. Most of us select the MF based on its performance graph of last 2~5 yrs but that doesn't guarantee it will perform the same in next 4~5 years.
Making decision of selecting a Stock or MF is careful study of a Company day to day operation and by that it means the Balance Sheet/ P&L statement/Annual Report/Expense Ratio/Debt Ratio and other financial terms to Analyze which most of us don't do at all bcoz that is taken care of by the MF Fund manager to make our Job easier. That is why we pay to Stock Broker/Fund Manager to avoid the headache of looking at 3~4 monitors of fluctuating share prices graph.

And Debt funds are dependent on Market but they are less volatile than Equity.

*economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealt...ned-returns/articleshow/74622658.cms?from=mdr

Best of the best funds sometimes perform negatively. That's why the investment time frame for equity is long term. 7+ years minimum if you ask me.

TheSloth said:
I don;t want to get stocks as of now. Since I still dont know how it all works. I am getting comfortable with MF but was curious about Nifty Bees since I heard about it few time now.

Same here. The only stock I've ever bought is 1 share of Bajaj finance lol.

Zangetsu said:
Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.

Mostly crypto bros calling crypto an investment asset frown at gold and its investors. But this is way offtopic to main topic so that's it from my side

Zangetsu said:
Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.

What I meant was that Gold prices have been increasing forever, so people invested in Gold back in 2005 or 2010 will definitely get huge sum as return if they go to sell their gold.
What i didn't know that their prices doesn't increase by lot compare to inflation rate on Indian economy. It made sense in those days to invest. But not anymore since the current gold prices are inflated a lot. Another thing whitestar mentioned was, whenever Equity market goes up, gold market comes down and vice-versa. I dont know how this works.
So in general I thought gold investments are great, back in 90s-2000s and now also, since gold prices always go up.

W

Zangetsu said:
Investing in Stock market or MF is not a Snooker game where you enter and exit at your convenience. Most of us select the MF based on its performance graph of last 2~5 yrs but that doesn't guarantee it will perform the same in next 4~5 years.
Making decision of selecting a Stock or MF is careful study of a Company day to day operation and by that it means the Balance Sheet/ P&L statement/Annual Report/Expense Ratio/Debt Ratio and other financial terms to Analyze which most of us don't do at all bcoz that is taken care of by the MF Fund manager to make our Job easier. That is why we pay to Stock Broker/Fund Manager to avoid the headache of looking at 3~4 monitors of fluctuating share prices graph.

And Debt funds are dependent on Market but they are less volatile than Equity.

Investing in stock market/MF(the good ones, companies as well as MFs) basically represent the trust you have in your country's economy. If you don't have that then it is pointless to argue over this with anyone. I won't discuss further on this but posting here a snapshot of Indian economy & why what you say about MF/market(good companies & MFs) is completely wrong.

@TheSloth niftybees is nothing but basically a share with around 1/100th value of nifty index(currently it is around 17000) so its value only depends on nifty index as shown above. Nifty index in turn is an indicator of country's economy & consists of top 50 companies of the country & depends on their performance for its value. If you think India's nifty index will touch 100000 in next 10 years(which many financial experts suggest) then niftybees shares bought today will become 5 times in value in next 10 years.

Hi guys, need help in declaring the investments for tax deductions. My total investment was 45000 in MF until Dec but because they charge 0.005% as stamp duty. So my total investment shown in reports is 44997.75. Now, can I declare full 45000 as investment or I need to mention exact amount 44997? How do you guys generally declare your investments? Currently I am doing exact 60K in ELSS and remaining from other investment sources for 80C so i will be falling short by few Rupees from 1.5L if I continue to ignore the stamp duty in investment declaration.

W

TheSloth said:
Hi guys, need help in declaring the investments for tax deductions. My total investment was 45000 in MF until Dec but because they charge 0.005% as stamp duty. So my total investment shown in reports is 44997.75. Now, can I declare full 45000 as investment or I need to mention exact amount 44997? How do you guys generally declare your investments? Currently I am doing exact 60K in ELSS and remaining from other investment sources for 80C so i will be falling short by few Rupees from 1.5L if I continue to ignore the stamp duty in investment declaration.

First of all, Rs.3 is negligible

Second, you only show actual investment(44997 in this case) & even then no need to show in decimal figures. Taxes are collected by govt so by definition they are not your investment.

whitestar_999 said:
First of all, Rs.3 is negligible Second, you only show actual investment(44997 in this case) & even then no need to show in decimal figures. Taxes are collected by govt so by definition they are not your investment.

Thank you!
Rs.3 is neglible but I was worried that suddenly one day I might get a call from IT Dept telling the amount declared isn't matching with investment so you need to pay fine.

W

TheSloth said:
Thank you!
Rs.3 is neglible but I was worried that suddenly one day I might get a call from IT Dept telling the amount declared isn't matching with investment so you need to pay fine.

On the most popular shopping deals related forum in India, people skip mentioning 5 digit figures in their itr hoping they will get the notice only if being very unlucky.

On a more serious note, IT dept does not think a Rs.3 mismatch even qualifies for second look.

Hi guys!

Since I am already investing in Mutual funds through ELSS(for tax saving purpose), I do not want to invest more money in this since there is lock-in period. So I have been looking into more options and came across Index funds which is said to better than mutual funds. How true is this? I have some queries now.

1. What is the difference between these funds?

*g.co/finance/UTI_NIFT_INDE_1HPGBNK:MUTF_IN?window=1M

vs

*g.co/finance/NIFTYBEES:NSE?window=1M

2. Could anyone explain or point me in direction where I can read the basic differences between Index and ETF funds?
I got the basic definition but what else should I know about these before investing in any of the above? Asking from investor point of view.

3. Does Zerodha Coin has Nippon India ETF Nifty BeES? I could not find it.

4. So far whatever I have read about nifty funds only positives. How safe it is to invest in this for long term like 15-20yrs as SIP, just like Mutual funds?
On Zerodha and Groww these show up as "Buy" instead of "Invest". So I am guessing this is stock market. Hence the question of long term investments.

5. Since I am already investing in Tax Saver Mutual Funds, which has holdings in regular top firms like HDFC Bank, Infosys, Reliance etc. Investing in these Index funds, say UTI Nifty, wouldn't the investment overlap since these Index/ETF funds are having stocks in same company? In case market goes down, all the investments, mf, index, etf etc will go down together, I guess that is why we need debt funds or FDs to save the invested money. Am I correct here?

TheSloth said:
Hi guys!

Since I am already investing in Mutual funds through ELSS(for tax saving purpose), I do not want to invest more money in this since there is lock-in period. So I have been looking into more options and came across Index funds which is said to better than mutual funds. How true is this? I have some queries now.

1. What is the difference between these funds?

*g.co/finance/UTI_NIFT_INDE_1HPGBNK:MUTF_IN?window=1M
vs

*g.co/finance/NIFTYBEES:NSE?window=1M

2. Could anyone explain or point me in direction where I can read the basic differences between Index and ETF funds?
I got the basic definition but what else should I know about these before investing in any of the above? Asking from investor point of view.

3. Does Zerodha Coin has Nippon India ETF Nifty BeES? I could not find it.

4. So far whatever I have read about nifty funds only positives. How safe it is to invest in this for long term like 15-20yrs as SIP, just like Mutual funds?
On Zerodha and Groww these show up as "Buy" instead of "Invest". So I am guessing this is stock market. Hence the question of long term investments.

5. Since I am already investing in Tax Saver Mutual Funds, which has holdings in regular top firms like HDFC Bank, Infosys, Reliance etc. Investing in these Index funds, say UTI Nifty, wouldn't the investment overlap since these Index/ETF funds are having stocks in same company? In case market goes down, all the investments, mf, index, etf etc will go down together, I guess that is why we need debt funds or FDs to save the invested money. Am I correct here?

From what I know:

1. Mutual Fund vs Exchange Traded Fund - ETFs are bought & sold like stocks, unlike MFs

2. Not the right comparison. An index fund is type of MF that tracks an index, like sensex or nifty. ETF can be of any type/composition, Nifty bees is just one of them.

3. Coin is for MF, Kite has ETFs - Not sure why Zerodha segregated into multiple products. I still recommend Groww for newbies.

4. Nifty Index MF will be Invest as it is MF & ETFs will be Buy.

5. Yes, will have multiple MFs investing in same companies. Say, don't buy 2 MFs of the same category, like HDFC NIFTY index fund & UTI NIFTY index fund. I have a flexi-cap, technology (thematic fund), small cap, mid cap & ELSS MFs. They have overlaps here & there, still, I feel its diversified enough. I just need to add more money into small cap fund as right now its share in overall holding is low & large cap is the highest. Groww's Portfolio Analysis seems nice, I use it for MFs & Zerodha for stocks.

W

TheSloth said:
2. Could anyone explain or point me in direction where I can read the basic differences between Index and ETF funds?
I got the basic definition but what else should I know about these before investing in any of the above? Asking from investor point of view.

I already explained this in one of my previous post. Basically a nifty index fund tracks value of nifty index & as per a fixed formula a unit of index MF is equal to a certain % of whatever index it is tracking. In case of niftybees it is around 1/100th of nifty index value.

TheSloth said:
4. So far whatever I have read about nifty funds only positives. How safe it is to invest in this for long term like 15-20yrs as SIP, just like Mutual funds?
On Zerodha and Groww these show up as "Buy" instead of "Invest". So I am guessing this is stock market. Hence the question of long term investments.

ETFs are basically MF units sold like shares so obviously they show up as "buy" just like any other share. As for long term, it is basic knowledge that any stock market's main index represents the biggest companies of that market so as long as a country's economy grow its stock market index too will grow.

TheSloth said:
5. Since I am already investing in Tax Saver Mutual Funds, which has holdings in regular top firms like HDFC Bank, Infosys, Reliance etc. Investing in these Index funds, say UTI Nifty, wouldn't the investment overlap since these Index/ETF funds are having stocks in same company? In case market goes down, all the investments, mf, index, etf etc will go down together, I guess that is why we need debt funds or FDs to save the invested money. Am I correct here?

Yes overlap will be there but not as much as you think. Also you diversify based on your time horizon & risk taking capacity(which in turn depends on age, younger the person more is the risk taking capacity while for older near retirement people safety is the topmost criterion). Debt funds also nowadays have become riskier compared to a few years ago & it is not advised to invest in debt funds nowadays without doing proper & thorough research.

W

omega44-xt said:
I have a flexi-cap, technology (thematic fund)

Thematic funds are suggested only for experienced users as they carry much higher risk than your typical large cap/mid cap MFs.

If you want just one more fund go for this : Parag Parikh Flexi Cap fund.

whitestar_999 said:
Thematic funds are suggested only for experienced users as they carry much higher risk than your typical large cap/mid cap MFs.

My small cap MF doesn't have much money in it, tech fund is like my small cap, but has large cap companies in it. I think tech companies will keep on growing with time, hence this theme, instead of something like healthcare, auto, etc.

Thanks alot for the info and advice.
I still need to learn a lot since I am not even able to understand all the replies. But first I think I need to decide on the duration of investment.
What is the general investment duration for these funds: Flexi, small, mid cap funds.

@rockfella why do you suggest this flexi cap fund instead of Index fund? Is it to diversify or this one is another good fund to invest in right now?

W

TheSloth said:
What is the general investment duration for these funds: Flexi, small, mid cap funds.

Recommended duration for any good MF is at least 10 years & for a specific purpose like children education, retirement corpus etc. Don't confuse MF investment with extra source of income.

due to index funds bubble bursting, i am thinking of pausing nifty and sensex sip funds for 1 or 2 installments (will be effective on last week of jan). is it a good idea ?

W

icebags said:
due to index funds bubble bursting, i am thinking of pausing nifty and sensex sip funds for 1 or 2 installments (will be effective on last week of jan). is it a good idea ?

What bubble bursting? Before corona lockdown sensex was around 41k while nifty was around 12k & I seriously doubt you will see those levels again. Also, considering a 10 years horizon it can be safely assumed that both nifty & index will be much higher than today.

whitestar_999 said:
What bubble bursting? Before corona lockdown sensex was around 41k while nifty was around 12k & I seriously doubt you will see those levels again. Also, considering a 10 years horizon it can be safely assumed that both nifty & index will be much higher than today.

hmmm seems it may not matter much in 10yrs span. ok, lets not skip it.

also thinking about starting a small amount sip with axis mf small cap fund for long term investment. people also saying this fund is good enough for that, and long term returns also look promising. is it ok ?

How do you people decide on the duration of the investments? I want to invest for 3 and 5 yrs but do not know what kind of investment should I chose.

W

TheSloth said:
How do you people decide on the duration of the investments? I want to invest for 3 and 5 yrs but do not know what kind of investment should I chose.

What's even the point of such short term investments anyway unless you are looking for an extra source of income in which case MFs/stocks are not recommended? For such short duration the safest way is FD but you have to pay full tax on its interest income so best option then is transfer the amount of money to your siblings more than 18 years of age & in school/college & create FD under their name/bank acc to avoid paying tax on FD interest income(money given as gift to direct siblings/own children is 100% tax free provided you have shown that money in your itr).

W

icebags said:
also thinking about starting a small amount sip with axis mf small cap fund for long term investment. people also saying this fund is good enough for that, and long term returns also look promising. is it ok ?

Better wait for few months in 2022 to pass as markets expected to go through some major churning once the stimulus measure in US & India tapers off.

whitestar_999 said:
What's even the point of such short term investments anyway unless you are looking for an extra source of income in which case MFs/stocks are not recommended? For such short duration the safest way is FD but you have to pay full tax on its interest income so best option then is transfer the amount of money to your siblings more than 18 years of age & in school/college & create FD under their name/bank acc to avoid paying tax on FD interest income(money given as gift to direct siblings/own children is 100% tax free provided you have shown that money in your itr).

short duration like upto 5yrs. May be something only for 10 yrs. I am not planning to touch the tax saving ELSS investment for at least 15 yrs since these are have decent returns for long term and also saves tax. But I am not convinced in tying my money for 15 yrs since I don't expect a perfect life where I won't needing money for 15yrs straight and I will be able to handle the money issue just by my salary. Hence the thought of short term investments. IF I am able to save the money continuously for 5yrs without any usage then I will just withdraw half of it for use and put remaining half again in another short term investment.
Also I don't want to put money in Paytm since another KYC will be needed. Since I have have already completed the KYC process with Groww and Zerodha, I thought these platform will have something about short term duration like filter but I could not find. Same reason I am avoiding Kuvera even though it has goal based investments filter; which is my need right now.

whitestar_999 said:
Better wait for few months in 2022 to pass as markets expected to go through some major churning once the stimulus measure in US & India tapers off.

Ok what is this thing!! Any link you can provide to read more about this please?

W

TheSloth said:
short duration like upto 5yrs. May be something only for 10 yrs. I am not planning to touch the tax saving ELSS investment for at least 15 yrs since these are have decent returns for long term and also saves tax. But I am not convinced in tying my money for 15 yrs since I don't expect a perfect life where I won't needing money for 15yrs straight and I will be able to handle the money issue just by my salary. Hence the thought of short term investments. IF I am able to save the money continuously for 5yrs without any usage then I will just withdraw half of it for use and put remaining half again in another short term investment.
Also I don't want to put money in Paytm since another KYC will be needed. Since I have have already completed the KYC process with Groww and Zerodha, I thought these platform will have something about short term duration like filter but I could not find. Same reason I am avoiding Kuvera even though it has goal based investments filter; which is my need right now.

You are supposed to invest/save around 20% of your monthly income in any case & anything above that you can afford to save/invest then do it now & later when requirement is there then decrease it back to 20% at that time. Also it is not "tying money for 15 years" because at the end you get a good return which is required for your goals at that time. People invest in multiple MFs/multiple duration each for a specific goal like one for children education, one for children marriage, one for retirement corpus etc. I will again say, if looking for 3-5 years then best option is FD with at least 5-6% interest rate(create 1 year FD for now as interest rates expected to increase in next few months & FD once opened remained locked at the interest rate at which it is issued) with zero tax(the sibling method mentioned earlier by me).

W

TheSloth said:
Ok what is this thing!! Any link you can provide to read more about this please?

This is often mentioned in economic news section of most national English newspapers.

*timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busine...ls-run-out-of-breath/articleshow/88511607.cms

seems my funds are back on track. showing good increments now.
anyways, i posted a low cap sip and seems now my 25% of office income going to mf now. may be i should be capping here.

Any thoughts on Parag Parikh Flexi Cap(groww link) mutual fund ?
--
Edit:
Grow link is broken. This is google Finance link

TheSloth said:
Any thoughts on Parag Parikh Flexi Cap(groww link) mutual fund ?

Yes, Excellent fund. Have been investing it in since Oct 2019.

rockfella said:
Yes, Excellent fund. Have been investing it in since Oct 2019.

Yeah I read about it. But how is this fund against Nippon India NIFTY Bees and UTI Nifty Index fund? do you think it's better to invest long term in this PP Flexi Cap MF?

TheSloth said:
Yeah I read about it. But how is this fund against Nippon India NIFTY Bees and UTI Nifty Index fund? do you think it's better to invest long term in this PP Flexi Cap MF?

I'll say PPFAS is kind of like a large cap fund but more diversified & with international stock exposure. Good overall IMO. I have picked it over Index fund & have no index MF in my portfolio.

^Any reason you have not picked index funds yet??
I liked the index funds, straightforwardness of investing only in top 50 funds and very low expense ratio of ETF are quite tempting.

TheSloth said:
^Any reason you have not picked index funds yet??
I liked the index funds, straightforwardness of investing only in top 50 funds and very low expense ratio of ETF are quite tempting.

Index fund is like a large-cap fund. PPFAS flexicap one is kind of like a large-cap fund but better diversified IMO, seemed to have better returns & lower volatility, also international exposure.

From what I heard, the historical returns that you see, let's say in Groww, is what you get after expense ratio taken care of.

Check these for regular vs direct plan:
Parag Parikh Flexi Cap Fund - Growth [51.7238] | PPFAS Mutual Fund - Moneycontrol
Parag Parikh Flexi Cap Fund - Direct Plan - Growth [54.7944] | PPFAS Mutual Fund - Moneycontrol

omega44-xt said:
Index fund is like a large-cap fund. PPFAS flexicap one is kind of like a large-cap fund but better diversified IMO, seemed to have better returns & lower volatility, also international exposure.

From what I heard, the historical returns that you see, let's say in Groww, is what you get after expense ratio taken care of.

Check these for regular vs direct plan:
Parag Parikh Flexi Cap Fund - Growth [51.7238] | PPFAS Mutual Fund - Moneycontrol
Parag Parikh Flexi Cap Fund - Direct Plan - Growth [54.7944] | PPFAS Mutual Fund - Moneycontrol

How do you say its better diversified?? It has only 30 holdings compare to a large cap fund with at least 50 stock holdings. Is it because of international stocks??

TheSloth said:
How do you say its better diversified?? It has only 30 holdings compare to a large cap fund with at least 50 stock holdings. Is it because of international stocks??

Yes. Also diversified as in not just large-cap companies, some from mid & small-cap as well. But Alphabet, MS, etc are large cap US stocks.

W

Index funds are indeed quite similar to large cap MFs but not exactly same & that's why large cap MFs come with the possibility(but not guarantee) of beating index return over a long duration. Keep in mind that in stock markets, the index performance is considered as the benchmark & a good market investment is one which beats index performance while equaling index performance is the avg & anything less than index performance is bad investment.
@TheSloth @omega44-xt

whitestar_999 said:
Index funds are indeed quite similar to large cap MFs but not exactly same & that's why large cap MFs come with the possibility(but not guarantee) of beating index return over a long duration. Keep in mind that in stock markets, the index performance is considered as the benchmark & a good market investment is one which beats index performance while equaling index performance is the avg & anything less than index performance is bad investment.
@TheSloth @omega44-xt

Yes, agreed. Me not investing in an index fund is just my choice. PPFAS flexicap just seemed better. I have other MFs for riskier bets, high-risk high reward. Only you can know your personal risk appetite.

Isn't the risk is pretty much same in Nifty50 Index fund/ETF or any other large cap MF since they are investing in more or less same firms?

TheSloth said:
Isn't the risk is pretty much same in Nifty50 Index fund/ETF or any other large cap MF since they are investing in more or less same firms?

You can say, but large cap MF's fund manager tries to beat the index. Do your research & decide. As I mentioned earlier, don't look much into expense ratio as the return number you see is after the expense ratio computed.

W

TheSloth said:
Isn't the risk is pretty much same in Nifty50 Index fund/ETF or any other large cap MF since they are investing in more or less same firms?

Large Cap MFs do invest round 20-30% of total amount in companies outside of large cap without which it is simply not possible to beat index performance not to mention even among index making companies the % of investment is not exactly the same as index weightage.e.g.In index reliance has around 10% weightage currently so any index fund will invest around 10% of total MF funds in it but a large cap MF may invest 15% in reliance.
@omega44-xt

whitestar_999 said:
Large Cap MFs do invest round 20-30% of total amount in companies outside of large cap without which it is simply not possible to beat index performance not to mention even among index making companies the % of investment is not exactly the same as index weightage.e.g.In index reliance has around 10% weightage currently so any index fund will invest around 10% of total MF funds in it but a large cap MF may invest 15% in reliance.
@omega44-xt

Got it, knew about the latter. I just compare returns of MFs + graphs, like during dips how much it lost, etc. Large-cap funds or index funds didn't seem that good to me personally.

Since the market is gowing down, anyone investing in anything in particular?

*timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busine...ts-nifty-below-17150/articleshow/89093526.cms

W

khalil1210 said:
Since the market is gowing down, anyone investing in anything in particular?

No hurry, also mkt is always volatile before budget day anyway.

The market is already going up today. I thought it will stay down till 31st Jan. Any idea what's happening??

W

TheSloth said:
The market is already going up today. I thought it will stay down till 31st Jan. Any idea what's happening??

Sensex is already down from its high of 60k+ a few days ago, don't look at few days period or try to predict how long mkt will remain down based on that period. In any case, the week before the budget day is supposed to be volatile so such highs & lows in a day are normal at least for this week & the next.

^Make sense.
Any idea how the new budget will affect the Indian market? Anything to specifically look out for??

W

TheSloth said:
^Make sense.
Any idea how the new budget will affect the Indian market? Anything to specifically look out for??

That's a big mystery only to be revealed on budget day. Just keep an eye on sensex/nifty as they will move in real time with budget proceedings.

W

Zangetsu said:

He is talking about direct equity investments by amateurs, MFs are managed by professionals & no good MF has ever given a negative or even lower return than FD/savings acc over a period of 10+ years.

whitestar_999 said:
He is talking about direct equity investments by amateurs, MFs are managed by professionals & no good MF has ever given a negative or even lower return than FD/savings acc over a period of 10+ years.

Most of the info in his videos are gossip monger type lame info, almost about anything.

W

rockfella said:
Most of the info in his videos are gossip monger type lame info, almost about anything.

He is Dhruv Rathee, what else to expect from him discussing stock market.

whitestar_999 said:
He is Dhruv Rathee, what else to expect from him discussing stock market.

Discussing anything!

Market is significantly down now. All the investments are in negative. I will continue the SIP but thinking how much "more" should I invest during these downfall period? I am doing 5k investment every month. Is there any formula or base percentage against regular investment amount, which tells how much lumsump amount to invest when market is down??

TheSloth said:
Market is significantly down now. All the investments are in negative. I will continue the SIP but thinking how much "more" should I invest during these downfall period? I am doing 5k investment every month. Is there any formula or base percentage against regular investment amount, which tells how much lumsump amount to invest when market is down??

Go ninja on on it! Increase SIPs if you can, do lumpsums if possible. How long nobody know but it is a good time to dump money! No formula. Yesterday I did a big lumpsum as market was down 4/5% and now it is up by 2/3% today.
NOTE: To ensure you get NAV of the same day use UPI option before 2:45 pm or else it goes next day or the next. I did mine at 2:35 pm lol.

W

rockfella said:
NOTE: To ensure you get NAV of the same day use UPI option before 2:45 pm or else it goes next day or the next. I did mine at 2:35 pm lol.

Do note that timing also depends on the bank/MF/3rd party platform from where you are investing.

TheSloth said:
I will continue the SIP but thinking how much "more" should I invest during these downfall period?

Only do lumpsum investment for that money which you unexpectedly got recently(like some bonus or some cancelled purchase at the last moment) or it is part of some large amt of money lying in some savings acc at 3-4% interest rate from which you also doing SIP.

TheSloth said:
Market is significantly down now. All the investments are in negative. I will continue the SIP but thinking how much "more" should I invest during these downfall period? I am doing 5k investment every month. Is there any formula or base percentage against regular investment amount, which tells how much lumsump amount to invest when market is down??

I'm ignoring it for now. Since, last 6-8 months my profit went through these stages
35k ---> 30k --> 26k --> 22k (today)

Zangetsu said:
I'm ignoring it for now. Since, last 6-8 months my profit went through these stages
35k ---> 30k --> 26k --> 22k (today)

Yeah I also have similar story. From 6k to -2k today. It's funny and scary at the same time. I don't know what would have happened about the people who had above 6-5Lakhs in their investments.

^^Lakhs ??
Rakesh Jhunjhunwala :hitman:

Zangetsu said:
I'm ignoring it for now. Since, last 6-8 months my profit went through these stages
35k ---> 30k --> 26k --> 22k (today)

This is a good time to dump more if you can!

TheSloth said:
Yeah I also have similar story. From 6k to -2k today. It's funny and scary at the same time. I don't know what would have happened about the people who had above 6-5Lakhs in their investments.

Don't be scared! Dump more if you can.

W

Zangetsu said:
^^Lakhs ??
Rakesh Jhunjhunwala

He plays in crores not lakhs.

W

TheSloth said:
Yeah I also have similar story. From 6k to -2k today. It's funny and scary at the same time. I don't know what would have happened about the people who had above 6-5Lakhs in their investments.

you must have been investing very small amt for a short duration, a swing of around 10-20% is common during major market correction periods.

TheSloth said:
Yeah I also have similar story. From 6k to -2k today. It's funny and scary at the same time. I don't know what would have happened about the people who had above 6-5Lakhs in their investments.

My gains dropped from 16L to 10L from Oct 2021 till yesterday. This is part of the game.

whitestar_999 said:
you must have been investing very small amt for a short duration, a swing of around 10-20% is common during major market correction periods.

20 seems high. Covid drop was 30% approx. 2008 drop was 60%

W

rockfella said:
My gains dropped from 16L to 10L from Oct 2021 till yesterday. This is part of the game.

You mean Lakhs? How long have you been doing sip?

rockfella said:
20 seems high. Covid drop was 30% approx. 2008 drop was 60%

It was assuming if one recently started investing at the heights of market & then a big fall come.

whitestar_999 said:
You mean Lakhs? How long have you been doing sip?

It was assuming if one recently started investing at the heights of market & then a big fall come.

Yes. I started in nov/dec 2017 and went mental on it from day 1. I realized it was my only ticket to become financially stable. More than 70% of my salary goes in SIPs. Any leftover money 1 day before salary day is dumped (lumpsum) in the best performing fund in my portfolio. I got lucky in 2020. When the whole world was worried about job security/covid fear, my only focus was to work hard and invest like a madman. I had analyzed what happens to economies after global catastrophes like WW2, 2008 and many more. I got financial help from parents as well. I sold off 40 year old gold of our house when gold went up to Rs. 52500 (mid 2020) All cash was invested in MFs the same day. I went straight to to CDM (Cash deposit machine) of SBI and did lumpsums when I got home.... sensex was rapidly going up/recovering! I withdrew all possible PF/covid relief from office and invested it all. I witnessed (yes as I could not believe it) average gains of 1 L per month from march 2020 till Oct 2021 and then the market stabilized/drastically changed in oct 2021. No gains instead gains decreased. I am not panicking rather I am more aggressive again as markets are again low. I know end of day all we can expect is 15-18% returns over a decade. Fun fact : I went to Goa in oct 2020 with the interest money lol. When I returned after 10 days all money spent on that trip was fully recovered. It was that crazy during the end of 2020 up until Oct 2021. I am not married, I have no EMIs, no car, no liabilities.

Any drop above 3% is usually because of something major and it is usually in the news, usually not always. Russian Ukraine war dropped it by 4/5% on feb 24th.

Just want to add India is the largest fastest growing economy in the world and we don't realize it. Only 3-5% Indians invest VS 50% Americans. Imagine if even 20% of us believe in our growth potential and invest! It will be a win win for all.
PS: I know folks whose portfolios did not go negative even after the covid crash since they have been investing before than me. It is a matter of time in the market not timing the market. Keep 5-7 years minimum in mind to experience the benefits of investing. Real magic starts after a decade when your entire invested amount almost doubles in 2/3 years.

W

rockfella said:
Yes. I started in nov/dec 2017 and went mental on it from day 1. I realized it was my only ticket to become financially stable and hopefully FIRE someday. More than 70% of my salary goes in SIPs.

Nice dedication & planning not to mention supportive parents, a rare combination.

whitestar_999 said:
Nice dedication & planning not to mention supportive parents, a rare combination.

Yes. See it did not happen overnight. I have been blabbering about investing/compounding interest and details at home since I started. Most of my life I have been a spendthrift which my parents knew very well. They noticed drastic changes in my spending habits after I started investing. What emboldened their trust in me was when my mom's ICICI fds matured and she wanted to put them in fd again. We logged in her ICICI bank account and I showed her % returns that went down when covid happened (march 2020 onwards...) IIRC 5 year FD ROI was around 3-4/5% and my mom was really shocked to see that. FDs and other so called safe investments are also market dependent as you know. That is when she told me to take the money and invest. This was followed by my father as well. He also invested some with his PAN and his returns even today are impressive. After some time gold prices went up. I told her about it and recommended selling what we had. She instantly agreed. Heck I convinced my parents but my doubting thomas younger bro had a good amount rotting in his savings account.. just like everyone else he was skeptical to invest at that time.. when he saw my gains in Jan/feb 2021 he changed his mind finally and started investing recently... day before yesterday both his and his wife's portfolio went in the negative (Ukraine Russia war) and was not happy lol. Luckily the market rebounded on feb 25th and it is okay now. I simply followed what Warren Buffet says: Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. These days people are fearful so it is investing time lol. March 2020 the world was petrified and I used all my might to milk this opportunity. I tried to convince many friends to sell extra properties they had/dump their savings in the market but no-one did it for some reason or the other.
PS: If I had used the same amount to buy Bajaj Finance stocks my gains would have been a lot more lol.

So good to hear personal stories which are positive. Anyone has negative story to tell about MF investments or any other investments??

W

TheSloth said:
So good to hear personal stories which are positive. Anyone has negative story to tell about MF investments or any other investments??

I can tell you there are many ppl who made lakhs by dealing in intraday/futures options in market within a few days/weeks only to lose heavily later to end up with net profit close to zero or even negative. This is also why there is only one Rakesh Jhunjhunwala because what makes such ppl different is their ability to keep majority of their profits from the market & not end up with net profit close to zero over the years.

W

rockfella said:
March 2020 the world was petrified and I used all my might to milk this opportunity. I tried to convince many friends to sell extra properties they had/dump their savings in the market but no-one did it for some reason or the other.

The thing is, you need extreme discipline to realize profits from share market especially if profits are huge & duration is short & such discipline is missing from new investors & even many experienced investors.

whitestar_999 said:
I can tell you there are many ppl who made lakhs by dealing in intraday/futures options in market within a few days/weeks only to lose heavily later to end up with net profit close to zero or even negative. This is also why there is only one Rakesh Jhunjhunwala because what makes such ppl different is their ability to keep majority of their profits from the market & not end up with net profit close to zero over the years.

Yes. The biggest broker of India Nikhil Kamath (Zerodha) states 90% people loose 90% capital within 90 days when they start trading. Even now I don't think about trading anyday soon. I know a few who have been investing in stocks since 20+ years and they talk like they know it all. When I asked them their overall investment VS gains they have made over those years they say it is negative 10+ lakhs. The stocks they invested in are those hyped ones Reliance and PC Jewelers. We all know what PC Jewelers did! Fun fact: Only 2% investors continue investing after 10 years. Rest withdraw before the real fun begins.

rockfella said:
Go ninja on on it! Increase SIPs if you can, do lumpsums if possible. How long nobody know but it is a good time to dump money! No formula. Yesterday I did a big lumpsum as market was down 4/5% and now it is up by 2/3% today.
NOTE: To ensure you get NAV of the same day use UPI option before 2:45 pm or else it goes next day or the next. I did mine at 2:35 pm lol.

Started a new monthly SIP for a Nifty Index MF worth 1/8 of my salary starting today. Will do additional lumpsum investments using my fixed deposit funds if there are 5-10%drops due to the Ukranian crisis.

TheSloth said:
So good to hear personal stories which are positive. Anyone has negative story to tell about MF investments or any other investments??

Google it you will find a lot of negative stories. My cousin lost all his savings doing intraday/future/options lol. Funny thing is even if had kept the money in PPF he would be far better than what financial situation he is right now. I have seen portfolios in negative 50 lakhs beyond recovery. A friend of mine invested 20 lakhs in one single lumpsum amount in 2 funds. He is not at a loss but he barely gained 2 lakhs post covid on 20 lakhs. Even if one has a huge amount, it is advisable to divide the total amount in 12-24 month SIPs to safe guard situations like covid/2008/anything.

mitraark said:
Started a new monthly SIP for a Nifty Index MF worth 1/8 of my salary starting today. Will do additional lumpsum investments using my fixed deposit funds if there are 5-10%drops due to the Ukranian crisis.

Do it at 5% too. Don't wait for 10. Lots of folks wait for rock bottom then miss out.

rockfella said:
More than 70% of my salary goes in SIPs

That's a huge gamble you did buddy. High Risk = High Reward

I understand now that trading is very risky and how one loses lot of money there. Any negative stories from other kind of investments like MF, PPF, FD, Gold, Bonds or something similar? Just asking here to learn things about dos-and-donts. There must be some points which everyone will warn against.

rockfella said:
Do it at 5% too. Don't wait for 10. Lots of folks wait for rock bottom then miss out.

Im currently doing only Debt SIPs equal to half mysalary since last year. 5% from ATH is 17100 which is still too high imo. Ill convert the debt to equities when Nifty falls below 100/200 DMA

Zangetsu said:
That's a huge gamble you did buddy. High Risk = High Reward

It is not. I only invest in mfs. Just the amount is more for me.

TheSloth said:
I understand now that trading is very risky and how one loses lot of money there. Any negative stories from other kind of investments like MF, PPF, FD, Gold, Bonds or something similar? Just asking here to learn things about dos-and-donts. There must be some points which everyone will warn against.

There must be some points which everyone will warn against : That is starting late.

I recently started PGIM India Flexi Cap Fund. Started small for now since I am a noob when it comes to MFs.

I am a total noob in this stock market thing, but I want to try it once.

Any good video/article/resource suggestions which can help someone who does not even know what stocks is?

W

RumbaMon19 said:
I am a total noob in this stock market thing, but I want to try it once.

Any good video/article/resource suggestions which can help someone who does not even know what stocks is?

If you are a total noob then stick to good rated Mutual Funds. I suggest below MF with SIP of at least around 10-15% of your monthly income & don't think of it as some sort of 3 or 5 years FD so even if value goes down don't panic & sell. After 10 years+ this will give good returns because unlike traditional MF it is based on nifty index which means it will always invest in only top 50 companies that make up nifty index at that time.

*groww.in/mutual-funds/sbi-nifty-index-fund-direct-growth

RumbaMon19 said:
I am a total noob in this stock market thing, but I want to try it once.

Any good video/article/resource suggestions which can help someone who does not even know what stocks is?

*zerodha.com/varsity/

If you really are interested in learning then this is a good free resource.

W

vito scalleta said:
*zerodha.com/varsity/

If you really are interested in learning then this is a good free resource.

That is indeed very good but it is too detailed for a casual user, for someone looking to invest in MFs & not willing to invest too much time & energy juggling portfolios 2-3 good MFs or a good index MF is all that is required.

Started SIP on ICICI Prudential Technology Direct Plan Growth

Nice. I started on PGIM India Flexi Cap.

Though the markets don't look too good right now.

^^It will be a roller coaster ride always

BTW, how liquid are MFs? You can withdraw any arbitrary amount at any time?

Desmond said:
BTW, how liquid are MFs? You can withdraw any arbitrary amount at any time?

Yes, will take 2-4 days for getting it back in your account.

W

Desmond said:
BTW, how liquid are MFs? You can withdraw any arbitrary amount at any time?

MFs are always liquid except for debt MFs in trouble(like what happened with Franklin Templeton debt MFs).

*economictimes.indiatimes.com/mf/an...asco-after-two-years/articleshow/90992937.cms

How do you guys invest in US market like Google, Amazon?
On the side note, everything is in red! All the investment of last year is almost sitting with NIL profit. This is scary.

TheSloth said:
How do you guys invest in US market like Google, Amazon?
On the side note, everything is in red! All the investment of last year is almost sitting with NIL profit. This is scary.

MultiCap MF(s) invests in US markets or else you can buy Shares from Nasdaq, NYSE

Friendly reminder that we have a separate thread to discuss stock trading: Stock trading discussion

Also, this thread is sticky now.

W

TheSloth said:
On the side note, everything is in red! All the investment of last year is almost sitting with NIL profit. This is scary.

Say it after a few years because saying it now is like predicting who is going to win the test match after first few overs of first day.

Desmond said:
Friendly reminder that we have a separate thread to discuss stock trading: Stock trading discussion

Also, this thread is sticky now.

Zangetsu said:
MultiCap MF(s) invests in US markets or else you can buy Shares from Nasdaq, NYSE

You guys mean to say if we want to invest in US based firms then buying stock is the only option? Nothing like Mutual Funds?

TheSloth said:
You guys mean to say if we want to invest in US based firms then buying stock is the only option? Nothing like Mutual Funds?

Parag Parikh invests in some US stocks like Alphabet, Microsoft, etc.

i was also thinking of investing some amount in foreign stocks though mf.
any different rules/practices need to be followed for these mf investments ?

W

icebags said:
i was also thinking of investing some amount in foreign stocks though mf.
any different rules/practices need to be followed for these mf investments ?

Nothing as long as they are typical MFs like parag parikh.

whitestar_999 said:
Nothing as long as they are typical MFs like parag parikh.

Has the ban on foreign outflow lifted? I remember that PPFAS said they will invest in domestic stocks till SEBI increases the limit for foreign stock or something.

TheSloth said:
So good to hear personal stories which are positive. Anyone has negative story to tell about MF investments or any other investments??

Yes a friend lost his savings when he started trading/intra day/options.

omega44-xt said:
Has the ban on foreign outflow lifted? I remember that PPFAS said they will invest in domestic stocks till SEBI increases the limit for foreign stock or something.

This is correct.

Desmond said:
Nice. I started on PGIM India Flexi Cap.

Though the markets don't look too good right now.

When the market's don't look good it is time to invest. Market always looks good when it goes up. It always goes up and down never linear. Ignore the news, just invest.

Zangetsu said:
Started SIP on ICICI Prudential Technology Direct Plan Growth

In my noob opinion it is a good fund, some experts feel it is a risky fund because it only invests in one sector IT (sectoral fund) The fund has given good returns over 5 years. I regret not investing in it when I started.

Desmond said:
BTW, how liquid are MFs? You can withdraw any arbitrary amount at any time?

Liquid funds returns are low but you can withdraw upto 50k instantly per day IIRC.

So, let's say you want to cash out, do you have to then make multiple withdrawals in 50k amounts?

TheSloth said:
You guys mean to say if we want to invest in US based firms then buying stock is the only option? Nothing like Mutual Funds?

Nope. Multi Cap funds are there. What you can do is check every Multi Cap fund in Groww App and there you will get what foreign companies they invest in.

W

omega44-xt said:
Has the ban on foreign outflow lifted? I remember that PPFAS said they will invest in domestic stocks till SEBI increases the limit for foreign stock or something.

No & I actually forgot about this thinking PPFAS readjusted their portfolio to accommodate new investors. Let me check with some others regarding this & then will update here.
@icebags

whitestar_999 said:
No & I actually forgot about this thinking PPFAS readjusted their portfolio to accommodate new investors. Let me check with some others regarding this & then will update here.
@icebags

i see, thanks.

Desmond said:
So, let's say you want to cash out, do you have to then make multiple withdrawals in 50k amounts?

50k per day.

*timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos...er-31-erosion-in-value/videoshow/92323600.cms

Anybody here used INDmoney for investing in American stocks? Saw their ad. recently.

W

RumbaMon19 said:
Anybody here used INDmoney for investing in American stocks? Saw their ad. recently.

Seen some online comments & it seems good for a casual testing of investing in foreign market but far from considering as a serious investment route like Parag Parikh overseas MF used to be before new RBI limit restricting such MFs.

Man when SEBI will reopen the international options for Parag Parikh. I have been waiting for so long! The US market is down since last few months and I could only watch it. Missed such a massive opportunity.

TheSloth said:
Man when SEBI will reopen the international options for Parag Parikh. I have been waiting for so long! The US market is down since last few months and I could only watch it. Missed such a massive opportunity.

I have reduced sips in this fund for now.

I have some 50k in hand to invest and thinking to invest it in liquid funds, because I don't want to invest in long term and can withdraw full amount anytime and invest in another liquid fund if needed. Any pointers what kind of fund will be good. Or should I look at options other than liquid funds altogether? How is small cap for better returns?
I am looking at liquid funds only to have the flexibility to withdraw same day, if I can withdraw within 4-5 days, would not be an issue.

W

TheSloth said:
I have some 50k in hand to invest and thinking to invest it in liquid funds, because I don't want to invest in long term and can withdraw full amount anytime and invest in another liquid fund if needed. Any pointers what kind of fund will be good. Or should I look at options other than liquid funds altogether? How is small cap for better returns?
I am looking at liquid funds only to have the flexibility to withdraw same day, if I can withdraw within 4-5 days, would not be an issue.

How long is your "short term"? You can get 6% interest on it in equitas bank savings acc if you keep at least additional 1 lakh there(3.5% on 1 lakh & 6% on amount over & above 1 lakh). You can also get 6.6% interest on it for a 9 months/1 year fd in that bank too.

You can get 6.5 % PA for 2 year FD if you do it via groww on indusind bank.

I did not think of FD since I want this amount to be available quickly whenever the need arises. I thought of Liquid funds because of very short maturity terms like 90 days and I will be able to withdraw the amount and or reinvest it. This 90 days maturity term I came to know from Youtube videos only.
Also, not willing to open new bank account for this investing money, since managing multiple accounts is already proving difficult to me.

just to keep in mind that now Income Tax Dept. knows how much interests you are earning for all your PAN linked Bank account. Since 2021 ITR website shows it as income from other sources automatically. so if the interest is more than 10k then it will be taxable.

Zangetsu said:
just to keep in mind that now Income Tax Dept. knows how much interests you are earning for all your PAN linked Bank account. Since 2021 ITR website shows it as income from other sources automatically. so if the interest is more than 10k then it will be taxable.

While filing ITR this time, my interest amount of 2k generated through Savings account was added as income and I was taxed on that. Or this 10k amount is only for investments done in Liquid Funds?

TheSloth said:
my interest amount of 2k generated through Savings account

You can declare upto 10k as non-taxable interest amount under 80TTA.

W

TheSloth said:
While filing ITR this time, my interest amount of 2k generated through Savings account was added as income and I was taxed on that. Or this 10k amount is only for investments done in Liquid Funds?

There is a section in itr form called 80TTA, once you add it in exemptions section then in the box for this you can enter your actual interest income from savings acc interest(not fd interest) & the deduction box below it will automatically take 10000 or your actual savings interest income whichever is lower. After this amount is deducted from your interest income then whatever remains will be added to your taxable income.

SaiyanGoku said:
You can declare upto 10k as non-taxable interest amount under 80TTA.

It is not exactly declaration but deduction, nowadays this interest income comes pre-filled in itr so you don't have any choice to declare it as it is already declared by itr.

TheSloth said:
I did not think of FD since I want this amount to be available quickly whenever the need arises. I thought of Liquid funds because of very short maturity terms like 90 days and I will be able to withdraw the amount and or reinvest it. This 90 days maturity term I came to know from Youtube videos only.
Also, not willing to open new bank account for this investing money, since managing multiple accounts is already proving difficult to me.

And what interest rate are you expecting from a 90 days liquidity fund not to mention that breaking a fd online to get the amt in your savings acc will almost certainly be faster than redeeming your units in any liquid fund. If only having an extra bank acc is an issue then you can look at the fd rates of all of your existing bank accs too & it is advisable to close any psu bank acc except sbi while recommended to have a bank acc in at least 1 major pvt banks like hdfc/icici/axis/kotak. Keep/open 1-2 bank acc only for high interest rates. In short, having 4-5 bank acc is normal & if you have more than that then you need to close the unused/unnecessary accs sooner or later.

W

Zangetsu said:
just to keep in mind that now Income Tax Dept. knows how much interests you are earning for all your PAN linked Bank account. Since 2021 ITR website shows it as income from other sources automatically. so if the interest is more than 10k then it will be taxable.

It is not system automated, even interest less than 10k will be taxable unless one avails the deduction under 80TTA by manually adding the entry for it.

It's very

TheSloth said:
I did not think of FD since I want this amount to be available quickly whenever the need arises. I thought of Liquid funds because of very short maturity terms like 90 days and I will be able to withdraw the amount and or reinvest it. This 90 days maturity term I came to know from Youtube videos only.
Also, not willing to open new bank account for this investing money, since managing multiple accounts is already proving difficult to me.

Dude give it a try, its super easy to manage via groww. Make sure you login via browser not the app.

SaiyanGoku said:
You can declare upto 10k as non-taxable interest amount under 80TTA.

Yes, the total interest earned will be deducted by 10k under this

whitestar_999 said:
It is not system automated, even interest less than 10k will be taxable unless one avails the deduction under 80TTA by manually adding the entry for it.

I mean that column is prepopulated when we open that section in ITR

So I did not know about 80TTA. Sigh.
I think you guys are right. FD will be as quick as Liquid funds to withdraw amount. I will check the FD options through Groww for ease of usage.
For short terms like 2-3 months, may be I can look into stocks for investments.

TheSloth said:
So I did not know about 80TTA. Sigh.
I think you guys are right. FD will be as quick as Liquid funds to withdraw amount. I will check the FD options through Groww for ease of usage.
For short terms like 2-3 months, may be I can look into stocks for investments.

2-3 months is too short for getting good profit of stocks.

Zangetsu said:
2-3 months is too short for getting good profit of stocks.

Oh. What is the correct duration then? I won't be investing big amount in stock, may be 5k-6k at max at a time.

TheSloth said:
Oh. What is the correct duration then? I won't be investing big amount in stock, may be 5k-6k at max at a time.

To gain the actual benefit from Stocks it is highly recommended to invest for long term.

Zangetsu said:
To gain the actual benefit from Stocks it is highly recommended to invest for long term.

I thought this was only for equity related investments.

W

TheSloth said:
I thought this was only for equity related investments.

Stocks are equity.

Lol and I thought I am able to understand little bit about investments. Sigh.
So what are the options for small term investments like 2-3 months, or may be 6 months. Something other than FD and better returns(its fine with the risk since I wont be investing more than 5-6k anyway).

TheSloth said:
Lol and I thought I am able to understand little bit about investments. Sigh.
So what are the options for small term investments like 2-3 months, or may be 6 months. Something other than FD and better returns(its fine with the risk since I wont be investing more than 5-6k anyway).

Everyone wants to double their money in 25days. No idea which investment will give profit in 2~3 months.

Zangetsu said:
No idea which investment will give profit in 2~3 months.

If you give me money, I'll double in 24 days (on Venus) :rofl:

Zangetsu said:
Everyone wants to double their money in 25days. No idea which investment will give profit in 2~3 months.

I didn't mean to ask to double my money in 3 months. Just wanted to know at what kind of option I need to look at for very short term investments. Liquid funds seem one of those options, but I am only learning about it so not sure about returns. On Groww they mention only 1-3-5yrs returns but if the maturity date is just after 3 months then why do we even need to look at 1year data. That's why I am confused and asked here.
I am putting all my money in long term investments, except emergency funds. I thought of keeping some money for quick withdraw but also something better than Savings account or FD.

Bajaj Finance has 7.5% interest on FD for 3 years or more.(Groww app)
It is the highest I have seen so far.

Nerevarine said:
Bajaj Finance has 7.5% interest on FD for 3 years or more.(Groww app)
It is the highest I have seen so far.

Isn't is loss for them to give such high returns?

TheSloth said:
Isn't is loss for them to give such high returns?

Why ? its a 3+ year binding, if you withdraw prematurely before 3 months, you get no interest, and 6 months plus if you withdraw you get reduced interest rate (5.5%).
I think its perfectly reasonable for them to offer 7.5%

Nerevarine said:
Why ? its a 3+ year binding, if you withdraw prematurely before 3 months, you get no interest, and 6 months plus if you withdraw you get reduced interest rate (5.5%).
I think its perfectly reasonable for them to offer 7.5%

Then why rest of the major banks like ICICI, HDFC are offering only around 5.5%? Higher interest are offered by Indusind, IDFC, RBL, DCB banks which are not as big as major ones. Hence my doubt, how are these guys earning profit. There has to be some catch.

I am not fully literate on this but I believe because they may want to capture market share, they provide attractive interest rate so they will have an early boost to capital. Established players do not need to worry about growth.

Also about risk, I think both above options are insured by RBI for UpTo 5L. But read the fine print yourself to get an idea.

TheSloth said:
I didn't mean to ask to double my money in 3 months. Just wanted to know at what kind of option I need to look at for very short term investments. Liquid funds seem one of those options, but I am only learning about it so not sure about returns. On Groww they mention only 1-3-5yrs returns but if the maturity date is just after 3 months then why do we even need to look at 1year data. That's why I am confused and asked here.
I am putting all my money in long term investments, except emergency funds. I thought of keeping some money for quick withdraw but also something better than Savings account or FD.

W

Zangetsu said:

*support.zerodha.com/category/tradi...rrowing/articles/what-is-slb-and-how-to-avail

Lending: The order value per security to lend is ₹1 lakh, below which orders will not be processed.

@TheSloth There is no better option than bank FD & savings acc for 3-4 months duration.

@Nerevarine What you call Bajaj Finance FD is actually more like "corporate bond" & the reason they(& not just bajaj finance) have higher interest rates is because they are basically borrowing from you instead of banks which will charge them higher interest rates for corporate loans. Even though bajaj finance is quite big but that does not change the fact that all such corporate bonds/FDs are subject to market risk with zero guarantee. Smaller banks follow a similar logic & offer higher interest rates because it is cheaper to raise money to lend from people compared to other sources which means more profit for bank when they lend this money to companies/people. Big established banks don't need to offer higher interest rates on savings/fd because their brand name is enough to attract money from people.

Damn. I don't know why I don't notification from this thread. Missed conversations since Nov last year

Anyway, it was so heart warming reading the story of rockfella. (This.)

Also an update on stepping foot in the US market:
So I was tracking tech sector of US market since this year start, and since valuation was too high, I was patiently waiting for market to correct.
In June I got the chance, seeing that market was down more than 20%, I decided to enter.

Using Kuvera and Vested, I transferred Rs 58201 into SBM account, which got converted into USD 739.76. (Exchange rate: Rs 78.67 / 1 USD)
I then started SIP for 6 months in INVESCO NASDAQ 100 ETF (QQQM fund) which is the index fund for technology sector in US.

So far I it has invested $371.11 in the market, and is 6.77% up.

Just wanted to document my journey in US market.

W

Vyom said:
Just wanted to document my journey in US market.

Good but start preparing how to file your itr next year because now you own "foreign assets" meaning you will need to fill all those "foreign asset schedules" & "DTAA schedules" even if it is just a few dollars.

whitestar_999 said:
Good but start preparing how to file your itr next year because now you own "foreign assets" meaning you will need to fill all those "foreign asset schedules" & "DTAA schedules" even if it is just a few dollars.

Even this year filing ITR was tough since it was my first time declaring trading and stuff. I will manage next year somehow.
Third party tax filing sites such as cleartax makes it easy to file.
Also I don't think I will be redeeming my US investments anytime soon to incur taxes.

W

Vyom said:
Even this year filing ITR was tough since it was my first time declaring trading and stuff. I will manage next year somehow.
Third party tax filing sites such as cleartax makes it easy to file.
Also I don't think I will be redeeming my US investments anytime soon to incur taxes.

That's the hassle, even if you don't redeem anything, just by virtue of owning "foreign assets" you will have to fill some extra schedules.

Any body heard of SBM Bank ? Their zero balance and 5% interest rate (above 5lacs) looks good.

Zangetsu said:
Any body heard of SBM Bank ? Their zero balance and 5% interest rate (above 5lacs) looks good.

I think the RBI insurance in case of bank collapsing is 5 lakhs now, so keep 5 lakh 1 rupee in the account & you should be fine.

Zangetsu said:
Any body heard of SBM Bank ? Their zero balance and 5% interest rate (above 5lacs) looks good.

I don't want to put my money in a bank with the name "Mauritius" in the title irrespective of RBI policy

Well that's what I thought that's it's the bank of Mauritius which platforms like Vested uses to keep our money in dollars until we invest in foreign assets.
But most likely omega is talking about State Bank of Mysore.

Vyom said:
Well that's what I thought that's it's the bank of Mauritius which platforms like Vested uses to keep our money in dollars until we invest in foreign assets.
But most likely omega is talking about State Bank of Mysore.

No, it is Mauritius indeed

Sent from my moto g82 5G using Tapatalk

W

Vyom said:
Well that's what I thought that's it's the bank of Mauritius which platforms like Vested uses to keep our money in dollars until we invest in foreign assets.
But most likely omega is talking about State Bank of Mysore.

SBM aka State Bank of Mauritius also has some Indian branches(I think less than or around a dozen) which operate under the same RBI rules as any other scheduled commercial bank in India.

W

Zangetsu said:
Any body heard of SBM Bank ? Their zero balance and 5% interest rate (above 5lacs) looks good.

Many small finance banks like Equitas are giving 7% interest rate over 5 lakhs & it is always incremental amount(aka for a balance of 5 Lakh & 1 rupee you get 7% interest only on 1 rupee). All SFBs are also same as any scheduled commercial bank & have 5 lakh depositor money insurance per pan number. Btw this 5 lakh insurance only comes into effect when RBI declares a scheduled commercial bank as bankrupt which it hasn't done since India's independence(only 3 scheduled commercial banks have failed since independence, GTB acquired by Oriental Bank, Yes Bank restructured via consortium of banks led by SBI & Laxmi Vilas Bank acquired by DBS). In all these 3 cases depositors money remained safe without any limits with only issue being money getting stuck for 3-4 weeks.
@omega44-xt

But are these SFBs trusted to deposit our money ? SBM is also an SFB with few branches in India and is opened in 2018.

W

Zangetsu said:
But are these SFBs trusted to deposit our money ? SBM is also an SFB with few branches in India and is opened in 2018.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_finance_bank

All SFBs are given license by RBI after thorough checks & after a certain period they are regulated by RBI in same manner as any scheduled commercial bank in India. State Bank of Mauritius is not a SFB, it was a foreign bank allowed by RBI to open branches in India just like other foreign banks like HSBC, Standard Chartered etc but in 2018 RBI allowed license to SBM along with DBS Bank to operate via their wholly owned subsidiaries incorporated in India which is why DBS bank was allowed to buy Laxmi Vilas Bank(a foreign bank cannot buy any Indian bank).

*rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/Content/pdfs/71207.pdf

^^Should I open the account then in SBM ?

W

Zangetsu said:
^^Should I open the account then in SBM ?

First of all, directly opening acc in SBM via visiting its branch is much more difficult as very few locations as well as very high initial funding amt(5 Lakhs I think) & nowadays banks usually don't open FD without opening savings acc with them. Much easier way is to open SBM FD via 3rd party app like indmoney. Its 367 days FD rate is 7.5%. However Equitas Bank is offering 7.1% while Ujjivan Bank is offering 7.2% FD rate for same period & both of them have much more physical presence in India.

^^But I am not opening FD with SBM. It will be savings account and 5% interest

W

Zangetsu said:
^^But I am not opening FD with SBM. It will be savings account and 5% interest

Do you have SBM branch in your city & 5 lakhs to keep there all the time? You can keep same amt in equitas/ujjivan savings acc & get 3.5% on first 1 lakh & 5.5%(equitas)/6%(ujjivan) on incremental amt over & above 1 lakh & up to 5 lakh. Both offer 7% interest rate on incremental balance above 5 lakh.

Also it is not exactly 5% for SBM.

Zangetsu said:
Any body heard of SBM Bank ? Their zero balance and 5% interest rate (above 5lacs) looks good.

Indian inflation is 6/7%. 5% is not even beating inflation

TheSloth said:
Isn't is loss for them to give such high returns?

because they will use your money to invest further and make a lot more than you. 7.5% is barely beating inflation, add taxes and your money rots.

Creates this thread. Hopefully will get help:

*geek.digit.in/community/threads/fo...al-value-when-invested-in-swp-in-excel.212068

Citibank is closing shop in india but they are offering an interest rate of 7.25 % for FD (for 1 year). Pretty good for a reputed bank in India.

Nerevarine said:
Citibank is closing shop in india but they are offering an interest rate of 7.25 % for FD (for 1 year). Pretty good for a reputed bank in India.

Axis is buying them last I heard

omega44-xt said:
Axis is buying them last I heard

Yeah. I have a Citi account. Axis said that they will slowly migrate all existing accounts to Axis accounts.

Yes but creating FD should not be an issue even if it migrates to axis.

Nerevarine said:
Citibank is closing shop in india but they are offering an interest rate of 7.25 % for FD (for 1 year). Pretty good for a reputed bank in India.

Many Public sector banks are also offering Interest rates of 7.00% plus FD rates. Like Canara bank offering 7.00% for 666 days for non senior citizens.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Yes but creating FD should not be an issue even if it migrates to axis

nikku_hot123 said:
Many Public sector banks are also offering Interest rates of 7.00% plus FD rates. Like Canara bank offering 7.00% for 666 days for non senior citizens.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Yes I know, but Citibank FD rate is applicable from 365-400 days, which is quite short term. My own use case is, I need the money next year so its a good idea to park the cash until next year.

W

Nerevarine said:
Yes but creating FD should not be an issue even if it migrates to axis

Yes I know, but Citibank FD rate is applicable from 365-400 days, which is quite short term. My own use case is, I need the money next year so its a good idea to park the cash until next year.

You can take a look at equitas & ujjivan small finance banks too then. Both have good financial fundamentals & Equitas even partnered with google pay for providing FD on their platform.

anyone doing mutual funds over phonepe ? do they cut brokerage ?

icebags said:
anyone doing mutual funds over phonepe ? do they cut brokerage ?

MF without brokerage/commission is called direct plan for that MF, else regular plan which has slightly lower returns (upto 1% lower).

right. i don't see and direct writing in the writings of the titles, so i asked.

icebags said:
right. i don't see and direct writing in the writings of the titles, so i asked.

Maybe it is regular then, that why hidden. A simple google search says its regular only. Just use Groww IMO.

W

icebags said:
anyone doing mutual funds over phonepe ? do they cut brokerage ?

Don't rely on jack of all trades type apps(phonepe, paytm, google pay etc) for serious investments/insurance policies.

creating id everywhere is problematic. how many you guys using groww ? and feedback you want to share.

icebags said:
creating id everywhere is problematic. how many you guys using groww ? and feedback you want to share.

Kuvera is one of the better ones for MFs. Zerodha was my goto but the new SEBI changes screwed them.

Is it possible to transfer MFs between these services?

W

Desmond said:
Is it possible to transfer MFs between these services?

These "services" are just interfaces for your MF investment kind of like how you can open same gmail on chrome, firefox or edge by logging in with same user id & password. All your MF investments are linked to a unique portfolio no. which you need to enter in any of these "services"/apps to see your MF investment & do the txns.

icebags said:
creating id everywhere is problematic. how many you guys using groww ? and feedback you want to share.

I'm using Groww for MF

icebags said:
creating id everywhere is problematic. how many you guys using groww ? and feedback you want to share.

I started my stock market journey with Groww, later switched to Zerodha for stocks but still use Groww to check stock (interface is easier to use) & still use it for my MFs.

Desmond said:
Is it possible to transfer MFs between these services?

Normally yeah but zerodha its hard (as they used to store in demat form). Not exactly sure how Kite is doing it these days.

W

thetechfreak said:
Normally yeah but zerodha its hard (as they used to store in demat form). Not exactly sure how Kite is doing it these days.

As per new sebi guidelines every MF provider will have to move to demat units system sooner or later.

whitestar_999 said:
As per new sebi guidelines every MF provider will have to move to demat units system sooner or later.

Is that the case? How does it matter? What's the pros and cons of one over the other?
Any good article you can point to refer?

whitestar_999 said:
As per new sebi guidelines every MF provider will have to move to demat units system sooner or later.

There is an option...not mandatory

W

shreeux said:
There is an option...not mandatory

Maybe if one directly buys from MF house but in case of 3rd party apps/sites everyone will move sooner or later to demat based system. Already Groww started doing this as it is mandatory now for any new user registering on groww to also open demat acc there which was not the case earlier.
@Vyom I couldn't find any rbi link but do see these 2 links.
thehindubusinessline.com/markets/paytm-money-to-make-demat-account-mandatory-for-mf-investment-from-july-25/article65606713.ece

economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/paytm-money-extends-deadline-for-mutual-fund-investors-to-open-demat-account/articleshow/92857616.cms?from=mdr

whitestar_999 said:
Maybe if one directly buys from MF house but in case of 3rd party apps/sites everyone will move sooner or later to demat based system. Already Groww started doing this as it is mandatory now for any new user registering on groww to also open demat acc there which was not the case earlier.
@Vyom I couldn't find any rbi link but do see these 2 links.
thehindubusinessline.com/markets/paytm-money-to-make-demat-account-mandatory-for-mf-investment-from-july-25/article65606713.ece

economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/paytm-money-extends-deadline-for-mutual-fund-investors-to-open-demat-account/articleshow/92857616.cms?from=mdr

If you buy in third-party app need Demat for safe...other than buying via any brokerage no need...they will add in Demat

Main issue of buying from AMC direct is KYC has to be done separately every time

W

thetechfreak said:
Main issue of buying from AMC direct is KYC has to be done separately every time

No you don't. When creating an acc directly at any AMC website you need to enter your PAN & if it is ckyc verified then no need of any further kyc.

Anybody here using 12% club or any experience with it?

W

RumbaMon19 said:
Anybody here using 12% club or any experience with it?

I won't suggest it to any typical investor. Basically, if you need to ask about it then you don't need it.

RumbaMon19 said:
Anybody here using 12% club or any experience with it?

Someone wrote this interesting reply on reddit a while back:

The idea is your money is split into small loans and split into multiple loans at 18%. Smaller loans would mean lesser risk and surely not everyone will default at the same time right?
US housing crisis 2008 happened cause of this. Loans were merged and sold together as an asset class. Surely people would pay their loans right? Well, as more & more riskier loans were given....we all know what happened next.
I see this as a parallel (somewhat), and won't be investing on this instrument.
EDIT: I am no financial advisor or SEBI registered. Pls talk to your advisor before making any investment decision regarding selling or buying.

whitestar_999 said:
You can take a look at equitas & ujjivan small finance banks too then. Both have good financial fundamentals & Equitas even partnered with google pay for providing FD on their platform.

Whitestar whats the latest news on FD, based on interest rate. I need to park liquid funds until next year.

Liquid funds is just a small part in Debt funds category. I am also trying to find a good debt fund, to park emergency money for short duration.
Unlike normal MF though, debt funds are very complicated. I came across these 3 videos where it have explained in a very good way. After watching this you should have a pretty good idea on how to find good fund for you and your goal:

1. *www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyePk679Crw
2. *www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDU8lve33KI
3. *www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzBcS_56V_w

which mf are you guys invested in? What is your portfolio? I am looking for long term investment atleast 3+ yrs.

I have been currently investing in PGIM India Flexi Cap Fund for last one year. No complaints as such.

W

Nerevarine said:
Whitestar whats the latest news on FD, based on interest rate. I need to park liquid funds until next year.

Good interest rates, up to 5 lakhs you can easily park in Equitas bank at 8.20% for 1 year FD. Create FD under the name of your parents/siblings with no taxable income to avoid tax.

W

Vyom said:
Liquid funds is just a small part in Debt funds category. I am also trying to find a good debt fund, to park emergency money for short duration.
Unlike normal MF though, debt funds are very complicated. I came across these 3 videos where it have explained in a very good way. After watching this you should have a pretty good idea on how to find good fund for you and your goal:

1. *www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyePk679Crw
2. *www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDU8lve33KI
3. *www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzBcS_56V_w

Nowadays best option for short term parking of funds is FDs with good interest rate under the name of parents/siblings with no taxable income.

Desmond said:
I have been currently investing in PGIM India Flexi Cap Fund for last one year. No complaints as such.

How much return have you got? I am thinking of going for Axis Bluechip mutual fund

1.01% so far.

The amount I invest every month is also pretty low so...

Desmond said:
I have been currently investing in PGIM India Flexi Cap Fund for last one year. No complaints as such.

Only one Fund?

Yeah, I don't know much about the others.

Desmond said:
Yeah, I don't know much about the others.

What I understood is, when selecting additional mutual funds, see which sectors, your current MF covers, and only go additional for MFs which cover other sectors.

groww makes it quite easy.

Screenshot_2023-04-25-17-20-01-17_a2bb1e74e6d303934c7f795bbdbaba38.jpg

For me, Id invest in MFs that deal with Communications, next. But there are many other strategies you can use.

whitestar_999 said:
Good interest rates, up to 5 lakhs you can easily park in Equitas bank at 8.20% for 1 year FD. Create FD under the name of your parents/siblings with no taxable income to avoid tax.

Thanks dude. Is it wise to create FD in one bank or should I split among multiple banks. AFAIK, RBI guarentees insurance amount of 5 Lakhs for FDs. is it better I look for some other banks too (like you said ujjivan small finance banks earlier) ?

W

Nerevarine said:
What I understood is, when selecting additional mutual funds, see which sectors, your current MF covers, and only go additional for MFs which cover other sectors.

Never make the mistake of investing in "sectoral/theme based MF" as these are for veteran investors only. A typical retail investor should stick to large cap, mid cap, small cap & hybrid MF.
@Desmond

Nerevarine said:
Thanks dude. Is it wise to create FD in one bank or should I split among multiple banks. AFAIK, RBI guarentees insurance amount of 5 Lakhs for FDs. is it better I look for some other banks too (like you said ujjivan small finance banks earlier) ?

RBI insurance for 5 lakh is per pan in each bank which incl everything under that pan(savings acc & fd). Also, this insurance comes into effect only when RBI declares a bank bankrupt which it hasn't done so far in the entire history of India since independence. What happens is that RBI arrange for failed bank to be rescued/sold to another bank & once that process is over then it becomes just like usual bank with no limits/money at risk. Worst case scenario is your money getting stuck & for that you can take Yes Bank as benchmark as it was the largest scheduled commercial bank to ever fail in India(GTB bank before it in early 90s was a small player & was merged with then Oriental Bank & so was Laxmi Vilas Bank in 2020 which was bought by DBS bank) & money was stuck for around 3 weeks. Another thing to note is that no scheduled commercial bank in India can fail overnight, it always start giving signals months in advance so one just need to take a look at news headlines in financial section of any major English newspaper like ToI every few days & that is more than enough else just ask on forum/reddit.

Ujjivan bank is also fine, it is just that Equitas bank website/app seem more "polished".

Btw if you do plan to keep 4 lakh+ then open acc in Equitas & take their Elite savings acc(initial deposit of 4 lakh+ is required) & you will get a privilege banking acc with a direct customer care number with no need to wait for more than a few seconds before being connected to a bank official(& not the usual outsourced 3rd party call centre agent) any time of the day who will help you with any issue in a far better way than any typical call centre person.

What are some currently good performing MFs? Also, how do we verify the quality of a MF?

I might consider expanding my portfolio.

Thank you, very good info.

Opening FD account, on my dad's name to avail senior citizen interest rate + no penalty for premature withdrawal.

Can you explain, how does this work ? Will I open an account in Equitas with my dad's name as primary, and then invest in it ?

Never heard of this bank before. How long have they been in business?

Desmond said:
Never heard of this bank before. How long have they been in business?

These are small finance banks, there are many such banks. Prime reason to keep them is high rate of interest for FDs.

Desmond said:
What are some currently good performing MFs? Also, how do we verify the quality of a MF?

I might consider expanding my portfolio.

I generally look at these tells:

Recommendations by Pranjal Kamra when he launches best MFs every year. In the last video he posted, he suggested Mirae Asset NYSE Fang+ ETF, in Nov 2022. But I didn't invest thinking that it's not a MF and it have rose >30% since then.
Peer comparison of a mutual fund on any portal where I can compare them. In the comparison I look at the:
- Past performance: But don't rely on it too much as just investing it basis past performance is a sure shot way to go wrong
- Trend of performance over 1,3,5 years: This gives general indication on whether the fund is "consistent". This means "Standard Deviation" should be low
- Sharpe ratio: which should be higher, and means the risk adjusted return
- Fund size: Generally too large a fund size, the less flexibility the fund have to generate future returns
- The sectors it invests
Finally I also compare the fund in terms of portfolio overlap using site like: *www.thefundoo.com/Tools/PortfolioOverlap

These are major criteria, of course it also depends on your risk appetite and investment horizon. For eg, I invest small portion of my investment budget in small cap, as I want to take a bit of risk to generate good returns even if it's a bit volatile. But I don't invest in index funds, as I am investing in really long term and want to beat the market.
Then I also buy gold SGB from time to time. The SGB portfolio have given me 13% returns in last year as market is sideways (which taught me value of hedging).

W

Nerevarine said:
Opening FD account, on my dad's name to avail senior citizen interest rate + no penalty for premature withdrawal.

Can you explain, how does this work ? Will I open an account in Equitas with my dad's name as primary, and then invest in it ?

Yes simply open savings acc/fd under your father's name/pan. Also, premature withdrawal should have some T&C but even for non senior citizens there is no premature withdrawal penalty in equitas bank after 6 months of fd creation. Simply transfer amt in your father's bank acc & then make fd(as I mentioned earlier getting Elite savings acc is recommended with 4 lakh+ intial deposit cheque). Make sure your father file itr though as the interest on the FD will be counted against his pan as per TDS deducted(if FD maturity amt exceed 40k in a year).

W

Desmond said:
Never heard of this bank before. How long have they been in business?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_finance_bank

W

Desmond said:
What are some currently good performing MFs? Also, how do we verify the quality of a MF?

I might consider expanding my portfolio.

First decide your investment horizon. For MFs the ideal investment period is 15 years+. Don't make the mistake of treating MFs as quick profit earning method or treating them as substitute of FDs. For a typical investor, 3-4 MFs are enough based on major classification of large cap, mid cap, small cap & hybrid. You can compare the past performance of MFs on any site like moneycontrol in major categories(large,mid,small,hybrid) & can select one which has been a consistent & good performer in last 2-3 years but that is no guarantee of the future but it does give an idea about the abilities of the fund manager managing that MF.

Parag Parikh Flexi Cap which has MS, Alphabet, Amazon etc international stocks, where govt stopped all the investments for almost a year because they reach some limit of investment funds. Has PP Flexi cap started investing in international stocks or they are still investing in national stocks? IIRC they opened the investment for users but they were not investing in those international stocks.

TheSloth said:
Parag Parikh Flexi Cap which has MS, Alphabet, Amazon etc international stocks, where govt stopped all the investments for almost a year because they reach some limit of investment funds. Has PP Flexi cap started investing in international stocks or they are still investing in national stocks? IIRC they opened the investment for users but they were not investing in those international stocks.

From what I know, they are not making any new purchases of international stocks.

omega44-xt said:
From what I know, they are not making any new purchases of international stocks.

That is sad.

1. How to invest in international market?
2. What things I need to remember/follow when investing in international stocks?
3. Does international market has MFs or only stocks?
4. Any good/known MFs/Stocks?

TheSloth said:
That is sad.

1. How to invest in international market?
2. What things I need to remember/follow when investing in international stocks?
3. Does international market has MFs or only stocks?
4. Any good/known MFs/Stocks?

No idea about investing abroad. There are brokers allowing you access to international markets, explore those.

4. There are many good domestic MFs, not sure if that's what you are asking.

W

TheSloth said:
That is sad.

1. How to invest in international market?
2. What things I need to remember/follow when investing in international stocks?
3. Does international market has MFs or only stocks?
4. Any good/known MFs/Stocks?

1. There are ways but not really recommended unless amt is large(10-20 lakh+) & you have time & effort to spend on managing your ITR.
3. There is no such thing as international mkt, you invest in another country's mkt which is just like here with stocks as well as MF.

ITR is already difficult for me right now. I will stick to national listed stocks then.

Is it wise to invest in Tax Saver Equity Funds for 15+Years instead of investing in Large Cap?
I am already investing in the Tax Saver Equity Funds so thought I can continue to invest in it for as long as possible and instead of adding more equity funds, start investing in gold and bonds slowly? I am also investing in NPS with medium risk. Idea is to invest as much as possible now since I don't even know how long I will be having job.

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TheSloth said:
Is it wise to invest in Tax Saver Equity Funds for 15+Years instead of investing in Large Cap?
I am already investing in the Tax Saver Equity Funds so thought I can continue to invest in it for as long as possible and instead of adding more equity funds, start investing in gold and bonds slowly? I am also investing in NPS with medium risk. Idea is to invest as much as possible now since I don't even know how long I will be having job.

ELSS have 3 years lock in period so anything beyond that is your choice. You also need to consider which tax system(old having higher tax rates but deductions under 80c etc or new having lower tax rate but no deductions) will suit you better as per your earnings.

1. Even without 80C/D deductions, I am getting lesser tax under New Regime. There seem to be no benefit of locking money for 3 years now. What is everyone doing here?

2. I guess there is no point in doing Tax Saver funds anymore? Will these products stay in market? If these tax saver funds go out, will the investment be merged with their other equity funds or will be asked to withdraw the invested amount as per ELSS regulations?

W

TheSloth said:
1. Even without 80C/D deductions, I am getting lesser tax under New Regime. There seem to be no benefit of locking money for 3 years now. What is everyone doing here?

2. I guess there is no point in doing Tax Saver funds anymore? Will these products stay in market? If these tax saver funds go out, will the investment be merged with their other equity funds or will be asked to withdraw the invested amount as per ELSS regulations?

Many ppl also take home loan deduction & for them old tax system is still more beneficial so ELSS will stay in the mkt for the foreseeable future I think.

TheSloth said:
1. Even without 80C/D deductions, I am getting lesser tax under New Regime. There seem to be no benefit of locking money for 3 years now. What is everyone doing here?

2. I guess there is no point in doing Tax Saver funds anymore? Will these products stay in market? If these tax saver funds go out, will the investment be merged with their other equity funds or will be asked to withdraw the invested amount as per ELSS regulations?

You can only save Tax up to a permissible limit of Tax deduction the government has imposed. After that any extra income gained will be auto populated in your ITR form. Advisable to consult CA as they can help with Tax Savings.

TheSloth said:
That is sad.

1. How to invest in international market?
2. What things I need to remember/follow when investing in international stocks?
3. Does international market has MFs or only stocks?
4. Any good/known MFs/Stocks?

Best returns you'll get in our own country.

I am invested in international market through Vested (using portal of Kuvera).
All my international investments are in Invesco QQQ fund (Nasdaq based index fund), and what I do is I transfer lump sum amount to SBM bank (which is US bank), and then SIP a fixed amount to buy units of QQQ fund.

I didn't find filling the ITR challenging, I just had to fill the Schedule FSI (details of income from outside India) and FA (details of foreign assets). Details were already provided by the Vested platform. My investments in QQQ is currently giving me 15% as of now. But I intend to buy and forget.

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Vyom said:
I am invested in international market through Vested (using portal of Kuvera).
All my international investments are in Invesco QQQ fund (Nasdaq based index fund), and what I do is I transfer lump sum amount to SBM bank (which is US bank), and then SIP a fixed amount to buy units of QQQ fund.

I didn't find filling the ITR challenging, I just had to fill the Schedule FSI (details of income from outside India) and FA (details of foreign assets). Details were already provided by the Vested platform. My investments in QQQ is currently giving me 15% as of now. But I intend to buy and forget.

Things are less complicated for you because you haven't realized any profits yet from your investment(aka haven't sold anything yet). Once you do then filing itr will be more complicated but more importantly have you looked at the effective tax you will be paying on profits from abroad. I think once you do then you might have to revisit your investment strategy.

*taxguru.in/income-tax/thinking-investing-stocks-india-brace-taxing-truth.html

P.S. SBM is State Bank of Mauritius & the bank you are using is Indian branch of SBM approved by RBI to operate here. It is not a US bank.

I got confused about bank. Seems like intermediately is JPMorgan Chase Bank where the exchange of currency happens. Foreign investing is very confusing. But that's why I like the process provided by Vested. It makes it all seamless, that I don't need to think about them.

And while I am not booking profits, it will remain that way. I will consult a CA once I decide to book. But as of now my investment horizon is long. (> 5 years). About taxes I assume the dollar becoming stronger takes care of it in some way.

W

Vyom said:
And while I am not booking profits, it will remain that way. I will consult a CA once I decide to book. But as of now my investment horizon is long. (> 5 years). About taxes I assume the dollar becoming stronger takes care of it in some way.

That's a good plan, definitely take help of a CA in future whenever booking profits.

I was invested in Mirae Equity Tax Saver fund to save tax and invest in equity market. Now that there is no benefit of tax deductions under new tax regime, I thought to stop investment in this and select some large cap fund since I plan to invest more than 10 years. But after comparing with other large cap funds, Mirae Tax Saver performed slightly better, I am thinking if I can just continue investing in this. Only downside I am seeing is lock-in period of units purchased and since I will do monthly investments, it might be troublesome in case of some emergencies.

How do you people think in this kind of situation? How do I conclude this?
Any large cap fund which I must avoid?

I plan to invest in mostly in large cap and small amount in mid/small cap.

TheSloth said:
I was invested in Mirae Equity Tax Saver fund to save tax and invest in equity market. Now that there is no benefit of tax deductions under new tax regime, I thought to stop investment in this and select some large cap fund since I plan to invest more than 10 years. But after comparing with other large cap funds, Mirae Tax Saver performed slightly better, I am thinking if I can just continue investing in this. Only downside I am seeing is lock-in period of units purchased and since I will do monthly investments, it might be troublesome in case of some emergencies.

How do you people think in this kind of situation? How do I conclude this?
Any large cap fund which I must avoid?

I plan to invest in mostly in large cap and small amount in mid/small cap.

ELSS MFs are similar to Flexi cap funds. IMO don't buy large cap, instead get a Index fund or something like Niftybees ETF. Large cap MF will have relatively high expense ratio compared to the latter two.

For me, my Mirae Asset ELSS is outperforming Parag Parikh Flexi Cap, but that might be due to international stock exposure (they had a lot of international stocks before the foreign investment stopped due to the hitting the cap set by SEBI).

IMO check other flexi cap funds as well. Parag Parikh Flexi Cap has exit load till 2 years. Then take call on splitting money between flexi cap, index fund & small cap MFs. This is what I do for non-ELSS investment. So do your research.

Plus one for direct Index investing instead of Large cap MFs.

Btw, @TheSloth: Did you choose New tax regime? Is it because it's simpler? I also choose New tax regime at the start, but later switched to Old tax regime, cause I was saving more tax in old, with some effort of showing investments.

Don't you have to show investment anyway for returns?

Vyom said:
Plus one for direct Index investing instead of Large cap MFs.

Btw, @TheSloth: Did you choose New tax regime? Is it because it's simpler? I also choose New tax regime at the start, but later switched to Old tax regime, cause I was saving more tax in old, with some effort of showing investments.

I switched to new tax regime because I have only ELSS and NPS deductions, no HRA, house loan, so tax was less in new regime.

Desmond said:
Don't you have to show investment anyway for returns?

really? What returns if not eligible for any deductions? Damn this thing is so confusing

W

TheSloth said:
really? What returns if not eligible for any deductions? Damn this thing is so confusing

He was replying to @Vyom post mentioning showing some investments in ITR for getting deduction under old tax regime.

Desmond said:
Don't you have to show investment anyway for returns?

There are certain "investments" which one could show without actually investing but now things are much more strict so only small amounts like 5k for heath checkup etc can be shown this way for claiming deductions, almost everything else require genuine investment proofs which can be cross verified by IT dept anytime.

I recently got to know about presumptive taxation for businesses. How can a salaried individual utilize this ?

W

Nerevarine said:
I recently got to know about presumptive taxation for businesses. How can a salaried individual utilize this ?

Salaried individuals only need to consider advance tax, this presumptive taxation if for those doing business & filing itr3/4.

Nerevarine said:
I recently got to know about presumptive taxation for businesses. How can a salaried individual utilize this ?

If you are only salaried, presumptive taxation doesn't apply to you.
If you are also/only earning money through Freelancing, in some area which is in the list like Technical consulting/Accounting/Medical etc, then you can claim 50% amount as income and rest as expense, and only pay tax on 50% on them, and you don't need to keep book of accounting. It's under 44 ADA.

If I made you confused, read detail here: *cleartax.in/s/section-44ada

I used this to file my taxes under 44 ADA as I earned some money in freelancing through Upwork. It's a good section.

W

Vyom said:
If you are only salaried, presumptive taxation doesn't apply to you.
If you are also/only earning money through Freelancing, in some area which is in the list like Technical consulting/Accounting/Medical etc, then you can claim 50% amount as income and rest as expense, and only pay tax on 50% on them, and you don't need to keep book of accounting. It's under 44 ADA.

If I made you confused, read detail here: *cleartax.in/s/section-44ada

I used this to file my taxes under 44 ADA as I earned some money in freelancing through Upwork. It's a good section.

So you file ITR 4 by yourself?

whitestar_999 said:
So you file ITR 4 by yourself?

ITR 3 actually. As my income is from: salary, trading and also business (that is freelancing).
I did file myself. It was a daunting task, but I did it nevertheless. Got to learn a lot about taxation. Had to do a LOT of research.

Edit:
ITR 1 is for those with only Salary income but some other income not including trading and business
ITR 2 is for those having Salary + Capital gains (Equity shares/MFs) but doesn't include intraday
ITR 3 is for those having Salary + Capital + Business/Professional/Freelancing + Intraday (44 ADA can be filled in this)
ITR 4 is for those having Salary + Business/Professional/Freelancing income (44 ADA can be filled also in this)

So basically ITR 3 is mix of ITR 1, ITR 2 and ITR 4

Also there are a lot of exceptions. For more details this video is great:

I recieved this in May from Groww.
Has anyone declared their income on Groww?
Is it REALLY mandatory?
Income means including salary or just income through MF/Trading on Groww?

Income means, your total income i.e., all your incomes combined.

I wouldn't bother after reading the last two lines of the snapshot.

W

TheSloth said:
Income means including salary or just income through MF/Trading on Groww?

Just fill the total income you file in your itr.

W

Vyom said:
ITR 3 actually. As my income is from: salary, trading and also business (that is freelancing).
I did file myself. It was a daunting task, but I did it nevertheless. Got to learn a lot about taxation. Had to do a LOT of research.

I see, I did a quick google search for 44ADA which showed it being available for ITR 4 so assumed the same.

Instead on Money lying in SB account, for invest safely

Best Short term Fund min 3 month to 6months?
What about Liquid Fund?

Any suggestion? Welcome

@whitestar_999
@Vyom
@omega44-xt
@TheSloth
@Zangetsu

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shreeux said:
Instead on Money lying in SB account, for invest safely

Best Short term Fund min 3 month to 6months?
What about Liquid Fund?

For such duration just use FD made under name of some family member with no taxable income (less than 7 lakh under new tax system) in some good small finance bank like Equitas having around 8% interest rate.

unity sf bank gives 9% interest rate. go for it. (4.75 lakhs)

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Nerevarine said:
unity sf bank gives 9% interest rate. go for it. (4.75 lakhs)

It is basically a revived version of the failed erstwhile PMC bank. Though it is entirely different bank now but its history makes it not such a good option when much better small finance banks like equitas, ujjivan, AU etc are there.

whitestar_999 said:
It is basically a revived version of the failed erstwhile PMC bank. Though it is entirely different bank now but its history makes it not such a good option when much better small finance banks like equitas, ujjivan, AU etc are there.

thats good to know, i was going to make one but no more.

shreeux said:
Instead on Money lying in SB account, for invest safely

Best Short term Fund min 3 month to 6months?
What about Liquid Fund?

Any suggestion? Welcome

@whitestar_999
@Vyom
@omega44-xt
@TheSloth
@Zangetsu

Not sure how safe are the liquid fund. I also had similar requirement and ended up doing FD and I renew it in case I do not need the money.

For a beginner, What mutual funds would you guys suggest?

Secondly, what is the process to invest in Chinese,HongKong and American Stocks?

Get some Flexi-cap fund for starters. Start with a small SIP (I started with 1000 per month).

Check the MFs performance over long periods of time, there is usually a graph in the investment apps that indicates the performance. Prefer funds that perform well even in bad market situations.

You could look for low or medium risk funds for starters. The apps should indicate this as well.

RumbaMon19 said:
For a beginner, What mutual funds would you guys suggest?

Secondly, what is the process to invest in Chinese,HongKong and American Stocks?

Any NIFTY largemidcap 250 fund and nifty next 50 index fund. You can buy US stocks either through Vested,Stockal or Fi. For chinese stocks you need to opt for FoF option in MF

RumbaMon19 said:
Secondly, what is the process to invest in Chinese,HongKong and American Stocks?

There are ETF for those foreign indicies. But govt recently limited funds going abroad. Read more here :

1) *www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/personal-finance/mutual-funds-call-for-easing-rbis-limit-on-overseas-investments-amid-growing-opportunities-12507751.html

2) *timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/stop-accepting-inflows-in-overseas-etfs-sebi-to-mfs/articleshow/108690639.cms

B

RumbaMon19 said:
For a beginner, What mutual funds would you guys suggest?

Secondly, what is the process to invest in Chinese,HongKong and American Stocks?

Dont invest in Chinese stocks, the laws are totally different plus someone can come on tv at 8pm and can call you an anti national.
For us many platforms are there, just avoid vested aka wasted.

billubakra said:
For us many platforms are there, just avoid vested aka wasted.

I was thinking about INDmoney/

billubakra said:
just avoid vested aka wasted.

Why? Can you tell the reason

I am thinking about starting SIP of Edelweiss Equity Savings Fund Direct Growth. Should I go ahead?

PS- this is my first time investing.

RumbaMon19 said:
I am thinking about starting SIP of Edelweiss Equity Savings Fund Direct Growth. Should I go ahead?

PS- this is my first time investing.

I would say if you want to start, stick with the well known SIPS for now, just go for Nifty50 Direct Fund from any well known vendor (Nippon, Quant, ICICI Prudential, Kotak etc.). Research what is Exit Load and Expense ratio.

Nerevarine said:
I would say if you want to start, stick with the well known SIPS for now, just go for Nifty50 Direct Fund from any well known vendor (Nippon, Quant, ICICI Prudential, Kotak etc.). Research what is Exit Load and Expense ratio.

Got it. Did some research, Going for ICICI Prudential Nifty 50 index Fund.

It has Expense ratio of 0.19% and exit load is nil.

One question arises, it is marked as Very High Risk, Anything I need to be aware about??

RumbaMon19 said:
Got it. Did some research, Going for ICICI Prudential Nifty 50 index Fund.

It has Expense ratio of 0.19% and exit load is nil.

One question arises, it is marked as Very High Risk, Anything I need to be aware about??

I advise you watch "Mutual Fund Guide" By LaborLawAdvisor in youtube, they seem to be "neutral" youtube channel compared to Akshat Shrivastava/Ankur Warikoo.

Watch the entire playlist, and then you should have some idea what mutual fund you should do. Dont rush anything, start slow and make consistent amount into SIPs.
Do your own research after watching it, then make the decision.

Nerevarine said:
I advise you watch "Mutual Fund Guide" By LaborLawAdvisor in youtube, they seem to be "neutral" youtube channel compared to Akshat Shrivastava/Ankur Warikoo.

Watch the entire playlist, and then you should have some idea what mutual fund you should do. Dont rush anything, start slow and make consistent amount into SIPs.
Do your own research after watching it, then make the decision.

Ok. Any other good channels for beginners you would like to suggest??

You can watch Ankur Warikoo/Akshat Shrivastava/CA Rachna Ranade but dont get influenced by how much you should invest and where. Just see their videos for their subject knowledge. For example: one important concept - Capital Gains Tax Harvesting.

They have repeatedly been caught promoting stuff that they get paid for.

Nerevarine said:
You can watch Ankur Warikoo/Akshat Shrivastava/CA Rachna Ranade but dont get influenced by how much you should invest and where. Just see their videos for their subject knowledge. For example: one important concept - Capital Gains Tax Harvesting.

They have repeatedly been caught promoting stuff that they get paid for.

Like....

During the Gold Rush, most would-be miners lost money, but people who sold them picks, shovels, tents, and blue jeans made a nice profit. :smile:

RumbaMon19 said:
Got it. Did some research, Going for ICICI Prudential Nifty 50 index Fund.

It has Expense ratio of 0.19% and exit load is nil.

One question arises, it is marked as Very High Risk, Anything I need to be aware about

It's okay to start with a small amount. 1000 or so.

I am investing in three high risk funds but they appear stable. The stability is affected by market conditions though, so how stable a fund is depends on how good the fund manager is.

A good metric is to see how a fund performs in bad market conditions. Good funds will continue to grow even when the market is bad, or at least not affected as badly.

B

Nerevarine said:
You can watch Ankur Warikoo/Akshat Shrivastava/CA Rachna Ranade but dont get influenced by how much you should invest and where. Just see their videos for their subject knowledge. For example: one important concept - Capital Gains Tax Harvesting.

They have repeatedly been caught promoting stuff that they get paid for.

5rs. ka makhan,
warikoo/srivastav etc. sab dhakkan

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RumbaMon19 said:
I was thinking about INDmoney/

+ @Cyberghost
Wasted keeps on increasing charges, charges which you have never ever heard of, like every 3 months. Their app has too too many bugs. Customer support just sucks. Now they want you take a premium subscription to get their so called "priority" support. Two of its main founders have left the company. They eat up all the monthly interest that you get on the unused cash, it is very less but why would you want to have them? Between this option and indmoney, atleast indmoney is transparent. Otherwise just stick with schwab, ibkr etc. There is no minimums requirement with them also.

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RumbaMon19 said:
Got it. Did some research, Going for ICICI Prudential Nifty 50 index Fund.

It has Expense ratio of 0.19% and exit load is nil.

One question arises, it is marked as Very High Risk, Anything I need to be aware about??

Expense ratio of uti, navi etc. is less than icici.
If you want safety then stick with fds and all.

B

Desmond said:
A good metric is to see how a fund performs in bad market conditions. Good funds will continue to grow even when the market is bad, or at least not affected as badly.

But usually an index fund will go down heavily, and all other funds, in an instance like covid. So, isn't that like not a good criteria to judge a fund?

Yeah, that risk is always there. Though technically you are investing for the long haul and the market will usually correct itself in that time. At least that's the hope.

B

Desmond said:
Yeah, that risk is always there. Though technically you are investing for the long haul and the market will usually correct itself in that time. At least that's the hope.

But that is not always true if one is investing in sector funds.

Sectoral funds are not recommended by experts.

rockfella said:
Sectoral funds are not recommended by experts.

Instead of Fund...Add Sectorial Leader Stocks on SIP basis

something offtopic. but you guys should read the bajaj finance investor PPT sometimes, an example how companies should make annual reports :

*nsearchives.nseindia.com/corporate/BAJFINANCE_25042024175108_InvestorPresentation.pdf

Nerevarine said:
I advise you watch "Mutual Fund Guide" By LaborLawAdvisor in youtube, they seem to be "neutral" youtube channel compared to Akshat Shrivastava/Ankur Warikoo.

LLA channel is THE best channel for financial knowledge and awareness. The amount of well researched and deep knowledge they provide in every video is unmatched.
Been watching them since years and what Nerevarine said is true.

I stopped watching Warikoo though. He's just businessman.
Akshat is also good, but he explains micro economics in detail and sometimes it can get hard to follow. Anyway, his recommendations can be very counter to what investors call, safe, and if you are not already a veteran, it can backfire.
Also he does lots of course promotion. But if you can get passed that he does explains how to study a company and economics in painful details.

Vyom said:
I stopped watching Warikoo though. He's just businessman.
Akshat is also good, but he explains micro economics in detail and sometimes it can get hard to follow. Anyway, his recommendations can be very counter to what investors call, safe, and if you are not already a veteran, it can backfire.

Thanks for finally admitting this.

1. I want to start investing in index funds but confused between the options.
E.g. ICICI and UTI both have same returns for 1,3 and 5 years but their NAV is different, UTI has INR167.6 and ICICI has INR252.2.
So how do you chose between these two? which one is better? or this is insignificant parameter in this decision?

View attachment Screenshot 2024-07-06 075740.png

2. I was thinking to split the investment between Nifty 50 Index, Flexi Cap and Nifty Next 50. I have decided to invest in Nifty50 and Flexi cap for long terms(>10yrs) but there are some doubts regarding NiftyNext50

how much percentage of investment is recommended in Nifty Next 50.
How long should be the investment? Since its even more volatile than Nifty50, should the investment be withdrawn yearly from it?

TheSloth said:
1. I want to start investing in index funds but confused between the options.
E.g. ICICI and UTI both have same returns for 1,3 and 5 years but their NAV is different, UTI has INR167.6 and ICICI has INR252.2.
So how do you chose between these two? which one is better? or this is insignificant parameter in this decision?

View attachment 22906

2. I was thinking to split the investment between Nifty 50 Index, Flexi Cap and Nifty Next 50. I have decided to invest in Nifty50 and Flexi cap for long terms(>10yrs) but there are some doubts regarding NiftyNext50

how much percentage of investment is recommended in Nifty Next 50.

How long should be the investment? Since its even more volatile than Nifty50, should the investment be withdrawn yearly from it?

1. NAV doesn't matter. Returns are supposed to be similar as it is a passive fund tracking an index, so Nifty index will have returns very similar to Nifty.

2. Maybe put it in small cap instead of next 50. Your call based on risk appetite.

Only invest in MF what you are comfortable holding for multiple years. At the current market levels investing lumpsum is not advised. But SIP would be best. Keep some funds as Opportunity funds to invest on market dips.
You seem to lack some fundamental knowledge about the kinds or funds in the market. I would suggest reading and learning about it more before you invest your money.

Hey guys, Thanks for replying!!

@omega44-xt Why do you suggest small cap against Next50?
@Vyom yes i try to read more about these from time to time but still have not gained confidence. What knowledge do you think I am lacking from my previous post? Point me in some direction please.

I am still trying to find out how much and how long to invest in small cap/nifty next 50. I just want to get started with the investments!!

TheSloth said:
Hey guys, Thanks for replying!!

@omega44-xt Why do you suggest small cap against Next50?
@Vyom yes i try to read more about these from time to time but still have not gained confidence. What knowledge do you think I am lacking from my previous post? Point me in some direction please.

I am still trying to find out how much and how long to invest in small cap/nifty next 50. I just want to get started with the investments!!

Atleast try in 4 to 5 funds with different category...Large, Mid, Small, Flexi, Debt or Elss

shreeux said:
Atleast try in 4 to 5 funds with different category...Large, Mid, Small, Flexi, Debt or Elss

I do not want to diversify so much! I want to keep it simple so that its easy to learn and invest. So I have chosen 1 Nifty50, Flexi Cap and Small Cap/Nifty Next 50 categories.
Apart from this, I am already investing in NPS and will add Sovereign Gold Bonds, that's all I can manage.

TheSloth said:
I do not want to diversify so much! I want to keep it simple so that its easy to learn and invest. So I have chosen 1 Nifty50, Flexi Cap and Small Cap/Nifty Next 50 categories.
Apart from this, I am already investing in NPS and will add Sovereign Gold Bonds, that's all I can manage.

Good...After invest...
Learn or track... above said category, choose the best one in each category, and see the performance and compare after 1 year.

It is generally advised to stay invested in a fund and not change frequently right? Also the situation is like selecting the best toll gate in a toll plaza. The queue you have joined suddenly might get stuck and everyone else might zoom past.

It is almost betting at this point.

What is the advise in case things go suddenly bad?
1. wait and watch the market?
2. start withdrawing(in parts/full) from the invested fund and start investing in other?
what else ?
Everything above is question, i want to know if I am guessing right and what else to keep in mind when facing this situation.

No idea what will happen in future.

TheSloth said:
What is the advise in case things go suddenly bad?
1. wait and watch the market?
2. start withdrawing(in parts/full) from the invested fund and start investing in other?
what else ?
Everything above is question, i want to know if I am guessing right and what else to keep in mind when facing this situation.

Buddy nobody knows what will happen. Just let your SIPS do their work. Don't try to "time" the market. Time "in" the market will give you life changing results.

Even when market crashed, we should the continue the SIPs instead of waiting for market to recover? Or we should stop for few days/months and keep an eye on market/news?

TheSloth said:
Even when market crashed, we should the continue the SIPs instead of waiting for market to recover? Or we should stop for few days/months and keep an eye on market/news?

To be continued... or Add more if possible

omega44-xt said:
No idea what will happen in future.

The future is always there. We will not be there. :smile:

TheSloth said:
Even when market crashed, we should the continue the SIPs instead of waiting for market to recover? Or we should stop for few days/months and keep an eye on market/news?

When market crashes, it is even more of a reason to continue SIPs. If you have time, then also buy more funds/shares directly during the crash. Make sure whatever you buy allots you NAV as soon as possible and not 1-2 days late.

NAV for mutual funds is calculated only end of the day no? So that is the max(least) we can get? I think ETFs have this option of current NAV like intraday. Please correct me if I am wrong.

TheSloth said:
NAV for mutual funds is calculated only end of the day no? So that is the max(least) we can get? I think ETFs have this option of current NAV like intraday. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes...NAV is close price only
ETF has OHLC

TheSloth said:
NAV for mutual funds is calculated only end of the day no? So that is the max(least) we can get? I think ETFs have this option of current NAV like intraday. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes sorry for late reply. Buy ETF during crash. I go for SBI ETF but there are other better options. But make sure you stay invested in mutual fund always. never ever skip a SIP. Also add step up to whatever percent you think your salary would grow by (atleast min 6% taking into account inflation).

If after a year of investing X amount of principal, if it generates capital gain (max 1.25 lakhs worth possible). Make sure to withdraw it and put it back in the very next day. (Tax harvesting). Do this once every financial year.

No Problem

I am reading about Tax Harvesting first time. I will read about it and come back because I didn't understand.

The govt grants 1.25 lakhs worth of LTCG free from tax. Your LTCG will only apply after 1.25 lakhs worth of capital gains per financial year.

Im giving you an example:
Lets say you invested 1 lakh lump sum today, and every year it gains 1 lakh in capital gains.

Year0
1 lakh invested.
Year 1
1 lakh invested + 1 lakh capital gain
Year 2
1 lakh invested + 2 lakh capital gain.

Lets say you withdraw the entire amount at the end of year 2. So total capital gains = 2 lakhs.
exempt amount = 1.25 lakhs. Taxable amount = 2 lakhs - 1.25 lakhs = 75K.
You pay 12.5% LTCG on it = 9375

Now with Tax harvesting what you do.

Year0
1 lakh ivnested

Year 1
1 lakh invested + 1 lakh capital gain. Withdraw the entire amount = total capital gains is less than 1.25 lakhs, so everything is tax free
Next day.
Put entire 2 lakh amount back into same mutual fund. Thereby making it lump sum principal.

Year 2
2 lakh invested + 1 lakh capital gain

At the end of year 2, you withdraw everything. Same 3 lakhs in total as in the top example but now, your capital gain is considered only 1 lakh. It it totally exempt from tax.
So you get to have the entire 3 lakh withdrawal without paying single rupee in taxes.

Tax harvesting works for capital losses as well and you can carry forward your losses.

Nerevarine said:
The govt grants 1.25 lakhs worth of LTCG free from tax. Your LTCG will only apply after 1.25 lakhs worth of capital gains per financial year.

Im giving you an example:
Lets say you invested 1 lakh lump sum today, and every year it gains 1 lakh in capital gains.

Year0
1 lakh invested.
Year 1
1 lakh invested + 1 lakh capital gain
Year 2
1 lakh invested + 2 lakh capital gain.

Lets say you withdraw the entire amount at the end of year 2. So total capital gains = 2 lakhs.
exempt amount = 1.25 lakhs. Taxable amount = 2 lakhs - 1.25 lakhs = 75K.
You pay 12.5% LTCG on it = 9375

Now with Tax harvesting what you do.

Year0
1 lakh ivnested

Year 1
1 lakh invested + 1 lakh capital gain. Withdraw the entire amount = total capital gains is less than 1.25 lakhs, so everything is tax free
Next day.
Put entire 2 lakh amount back into same mutual fund. Thereby making it lump sum principal.

Year 2
2 lakh invested + 1 lakh capital gain

At the end of year 2, you withdraw everything. Same 3 lakhs in total as in the top example but now, your capital gain is considered only 1 lakh. It it totally exempt from tax.
So you get to have the entire 3 lakh withdrawal without paying single rupee in taxes.

Tax harvesting works for capital losses as well and you can carry forward your losses.

You mean
Before 31st March or earlier?
Again invest 1st April or later?

Year 0 - invest on April 1.
Year 1 - withdraw on April 2 (when LTCG is in place) - google it.
Deposit it again on April 3. Technically you can deposit it instantly and it would be counted correctly but it's best to do it the next day.
Year 2 - Withdraw on April 4, When LTCG is in place.
and so on.

Great explaination of Tax Harvesting by Nerevarine and with illustrations.
I would like to add that this 1.25 LTCG exemption limit has been changed from this financial year. But until last year it was only 1L. Been doing Tax harvesting since last 2 Financial years now. Glad to save any taxes we can until Nirmala didi is letting us do.

So this tax harvesting can be done for all the investments, equity, FD?
What about the Long Term investment of 10-15 years? I should withdraw that too every year and reinvest?

TheSloth said:
So this tax harvesting can be done for all the investments, equity, FD?
What about the Long Term investment of 10-15 years? I should withdraw that too every year and reinvest?

Anything that is capable of "capital gain" not "interest".
Equity MF, stocks etc.

Yes, withdraw every year up to the limit of 1.25 lakhs in capital gains (not total amount) and then reinvest.

How do you withdraw lumpsum from MFs? IIRC you can only withdraw like 50k at a time max.

So we withdraw in multiple installments?

Desmond said:
How do you withdraw lumpsum from MFs? IIRC you can only withdraw like 50k at a time max.

So we withdraw in multiple installments?

There is no issue with withdrawing in multiple installments. What is required in your end of year tax filing is how much total you have withdrawn (in LT capital gains) per FY.
You can withdraw - deposit, withdraw - deposit. But calculate well what would be total capital gain should be under 1.25 lakhs.

Also, without being said. only do this when markets are not volatile.
You would want the withdrawn amount to be almost equivalent to deposited amount. Make sure nothing world-shattering happens in that 1 day between withdrawal and deposit.

I have 2 Tax Saver MFs I bought in 2019 for 80C tax saving purpose. And I haven't withdrawn them yet. Should I withdraw them now and invest in other MFs or Keep them as it is ?

Zangetsu said:
I have 2 Tax Saver MFs I bought in 2019 for 80C tax saving purpose. And I haven't withdrawn them yet. Should I withdraw them now and invest in other MFs or Keep them as it is ?

Yes, every year you should be doing some sort of tax harvesting. Tax Saver MFs only cut down your taxable income, their capital gains are still taxable when you withdraw them.

Tax harvesting if done well, every year you get Rs 15,625 for free. (1.25 lakhs worth of capital gains * 12.5% LTCG tax)

Zangetsu said:
I have 2 Tax Saver MFs I bought in 2019 for 80C tax saving purpose. And I haven't withdrawn them yet. Should I withdraw them now and invest in other MFs or Keep them as it is ?

I would keep them and invest in it regularly. They save taxes (Old regime) and after 10 years the entire amount invested almost doubles in 2/3 years as compounding become very aggressive.

Nerevarine said:
Yes, every year you should be doing some sort of tax harvesting. Tax Saver MFs only cut down your taxable income, their capital gains are still taxable when you withdraw them.

Tax harvesting if done well, every year you get Rs 15,625 for free. (1.25 lakhs worth of capital gains * 12.5% LTCG tax)

Please share how to do this.

Nerevarine said:
At the end of year 2, you withdraw everything. Same 3 lakhs in total as in the top example but now, your capital gain is considered only 1 lakh. It it totally exempt from tax.
So you get to have the entire 3 lakh withdrawal without paying single rupee in taxes.

Understood, you are basically resetting the principal amount and in the process, the LTCG part shrinks.

SaiyanGoku said:
Understood, you are basically resetting the principal amount and in the process, the LTCG part shrinks.

Exactly. harvest your taxes every year.

rockfella said:
Please share how to do this.

I explained with an example in post above. You can harvest 1.25 lakhs worth of capital gains per FY totally tax free. If you dont do it, when you eventually withdraw your money, you would need to pay Rs 15,625 on it.

BTW this is a very good product idea, if groww or zerodha implement "auto-harvest" in their apps.

Nerevarine said:
Yes, every year you should be doing some sort of tax harvesting. Tax Saver MFs only cut down your taxable income, their capital gains are still taxable when you withdraw them.

Tax harvesting if done well, every year you get Rs 15,625 for free. (1.25 lakhs worth of capital gains * 12.5% LTCG tax)

What if we keep the entire investment for long term lets say 5 years and after 5 years withdraw entire amount and invest in another MF

Zangetsu said:
What if we keep the entire investment for long term lets say 5 years and after 5 years withdraw entire amount and invest in another MF

The best part of long term investment begins after 10 years when compounding becomes so aggressive that your entire invested amount doubes in 2/3 years. I won't withdraw after 5 years. It is like planting seed of a mango tree then cutting it half way just before it starts giving real good mangos

Here:
View attachment 1724768537912.png
5 years.

View attachment 1724768570510.png
10 years

View attachment 1724768636339.png
3 extra years from 10th year! (13 years)

This is one of the greatest aspect of compound interest which folks don't realize

Zangetsu said:
What if we keep the entire investment for long term lets say 5 years and after 5 years withdraw entire amount and invest in another MF

You pay LTCG on profits (after crossing 1.25L). Not much incentive other than harvesting some profits, better to use the method mentioned earlier for maximum tax savings.

rockfella said:
The best part of long term investment begins after 10 years when compounding becomes so aggressive that your entire invested amount doubes in 2/3 years. I won't withdraw after 5 years. It is like planting seed of a mango tree then cutting it half way just before it starts giving real good mangos

Here:
View attachment 22931
5 years.

View attachment 22932
10 years

View attachment 22933
3 extra years from 10th year! (13 years)

This is one of the greatest aspect of compound interest which folks don't realize

The big numbers are the result of the the 18% expected return rate, which is too high no?

Zangetsu said:
What if we keep the entire investment for long term lets say 5 years and after 5 years withdraw entire amount and invest in another MF

Read the example I gave, its for 3 years. With tax harvesting and without tax harvesting.

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=k206qA7L17k&t=52s

this video explains in depth. Its slighty dated because now exemption is upto 1.25 lakh and LTCG tax is 12.5 % but still concept remains same.

TheSloth said:
The big numbers are the result of the the 18% expected return rate, which is too high no?

No, after 10 years compounding becomes very aggressive. Take 15% Roi and do the calculation.

^I am not investing in any fund which gives 15% ROI, I picked only index funds which will probably give 12% if we are lucky. And after tax, it will be even lesser.
Or you mean to say after 10 years with large investment, the ROI increases to 15%-18%, even for index funds?

Nerevarine said:
BTW this is a very good product idea, if groww or zerodha implement "auto-harvest" in their apps.

This feature is already there in Kuvera platform.
I used this feature in past 2 financial years. They make it easy to identify which MF to sell and how much in order to maximize tax harvesting.
And also let me place the buy order of same amount in same MF (or in another, if I choose). Very convenient.

TheSloth said:
^I am not investing in any fund which gives 15% ROI, I picked only index funds which will probably give 12% if we are lucky. And after tax, it will be even lesser.
Or you mean to say after 10 years with large investment, the ROI increases to 15%-18%, even for index funds?

Your username says it all. Go for it

Nerevarine said:
Read the example I gave, its for 3 years. With tax harvesting and without tax harvesting.

**www.youtube.com/watch?v=k206qA7L17k&t=52s

this video explains in depth. Its slighty dated because now exemption is upto 1.25 lakh and LTCG tax is 12.5 % but still concept remains same.

I still didn't understand how does it work with SIP. say I invest in March and then withdraw upto 1.25L in April? How does it work with exit load? Its not 1 year since I purchased the units, i need to pay exit load if i try to redeem all the gains, which includes units bought in March. Am I correct?

TheSloth said:
I still didn't understand how does it work with SIP. say I invest in March and then withdraw upto 1.25L in April? How does it work with exit load? Its not 1 year since I purchased the units, i need to pay exit load if i try to redeem all the gains, which includes units bought in March. Am I correct?

Read above messages again for past 2 pages.

LTCG is only applicable if you invested for more than 1 year. If your MF has no exit load for 1+ year of investing, all good, else exit load will definitely be applicable & tax harvesting will help to a slightly lesser degree.

It helps to pick mutual funds that have no exit load after 1 year of investing but dont overdo it. Your aim is wealth generation, not tax saving!. Sometimes mutual funds with exit load are better than mutual funds without.

Anyone here investing in Debt Mutual Fund?
As of now I am putting all the money I invest to equity, but that doesn't seem safe at all.
I wanted to know how do you select it, same like Equity MF by seeing long term performance and XIRR ?

TheSloth said:
Anyone here investing in Debt Mutual Fund?
As of now I am putting all the money I invest to equity, but that doesn't seem safe at all.
I wanted to know how do you select it, same like Equity MF by seeing long term performance and XIRR ?

Debt..will perform bearish market

Invest equally....Large,Mid,Small,Flexi,Elss,Debt

TheSloth said:
Anyone here investing in Debt Mutual Fund?
As of now I am putting all the money I invest to equity, but that doesn't seem safe at all.
I wanted to know how do you select it, same like Equity MF by seeing long term performance and XIRR ?

Investing in debt mutual fund is the same thing as investing in FD.

low risk
the returns will be "interest" and not "capital gains", so you will be taxed based on slab rate.

Usually debt mf has interest rate like 6-6.5 percent. I personally dont like this, since 30% will be chomped off by the govt. If you want "safe" investment, invest in FD in small finance banks.

This answers an important question, how to do tax harvesting with SIPs.

Are you people still doing SIPs? All the investments are only going down every week. Is it wise to stop till there is some positive news in the market?

I'd say dont stop SIPs even if its going down. Infact this is the right time to invest IMO.

TheSloth said:
Are you people still doing SIPs? All the investments are only going down every week. Is it wise to stop till there is some positive news in the market?

I have put an extra SIP this month.
I put extra SIP a month when market dips like that. It helps to generate alpha.

Obviously though, you should have some extra money too, that you are not going to need for next few years.

What does the SIP portfolio look like for you guys?

There will be further dip due to adani indictments. get ready to buy the dipppp

TheSloth said:
Are you people still doing SIPs? All the investments are only going down every week. Is it wise to stop till there is some positive news in the market?

No when the market is down you sell your old unused hardware/anything you can sell to invest more or do small lumpsum amounts whenever possible.

I was investing this way last few months, like mid of the month, end of the month to buy dip but now I don't have extra money to invest, seeing everything losing value, I was wondering if i should wait for a turn of events to do even SIPs to avoid losing further value of the money I am investing.

AFAIK, if the fund you are investing in has a good track record, then it will eventually recover or sometimes even be unaffected by a bearish market.

Iran's attack and growing tension over Russia's more aggressive stance against Ukraine already shook the market. Then the tensions increasing between China and Taiwan is another thing which is bothering me, especially because it will involve US directly. Doesn't seem like things will be stable like last decade. What are your opinions on these kinds of situations simmering up, which affect stock price negatively.

TheSloth said:
I was investing this way last few months, like mid of the month, end of the month to buy dip but now I don't have extra money to invest, seeing everything losing value, I was wondering if i should wait for a turn of events to do even SIPs to avoid losing further value of the money I am investing.

If you want to time the market, place order before 2PM on days when market is falling, like one of those days it falls more than -1%

TheSloth said:
I was investing this way last few months, like mid of the month, end of the month to buy dip but now I don't have extra money to invest, seeing everything losing value, I was wondering if i should wait for a turn of events to do even SIPs to avoid losing further value of the money I am investing.

That is why best strategy is to only invest one extra SIP in a month, if a dip occurs. But never stop your existing main SIPs cause how else you will take advantage of rupee cost averaging?

Nerevarine said:
There will be further dip due to adani indictments. get ready to buy the dipppp

latest updates not good.

TotalEnergies says it will halt new investments in Adani Group companies

source: *shorturl.at/odIQi

TheSloth said:
I was investing this way last few months, like mid of the month, end of the month to buy dip but now I don't have extra money to invest, seeing everything losing value, I was wondering if i should wait for a turn of events to do even SIPs to avoid losing further value of the money I am investing.

Don't change anything. Let the SIPs go. Don't try to "time" the market like a nerd.

why there is a Stamp Duty on SIP(s) on MF ?

Zangetsu said:
why there is a Stamp Duty on SIP(s) on MF ?

Cause government loves taxes?

Vyom said:
Cause government loves taxes?

everything has become so ridiculous. They did "GST" cut but you will never see the benefits ever. No consumer product are gonna reduce the GST rates of their products, neither will they increase the value of the items.

The car companies "handing you the GST" benefits are only doing it because car sales were at all time low pre cut.

Things like local gyms dont even pass GST to govt, so they are least bothered by GST cuts. lol

Nerevarine said:
The car companies "handing you the GST" benefits are only doing it because car sales were at all time low pre cut.

I am glad someone gets it. Margins were paper thin anyway for dealers and all. The whole festive season was killed till Sept 22nd.
Not a single retail shop has passed GST benefits. only blinkit and swiggy give popups that they updated prices.

Nerevarine said:
Things like local gyms dont even pass GST to govt, so they are least bothered by GST cuts. lol

haha they will never do it. I know 2-3 owners, they said not a single person is bothered.

anyhow lets keep this thread on topic for mutual funds etc

The Mutual Funds Investment Thread

TotalEnergies says it will halt new investments in Adani Group companies​

​

source: *shorturl.at/odIQi​

TotalEnergies says it will halt new investments in Adani Group companies

source: *shorturl.at/odIQi