DIGIT-ARC read-only archive · snapshot: July 23, 2026

They Criticized Vista. And They Should Know.

50 posts · originally from https://geek.digit.in/community/threads/they-criticized-vista-and-they-should-know.82394/

aryayush
aryayush Original post #1
Mar 11, 2008 at 4:53 PM
They Criticized Vista. And They Should Know.

*graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/09/business/09digi.xlarge1.jpg​

By RANDALL STROSS
Published: March 9, 2008


ONE year after the birth of Windows Vista, why do so many Windows XP users still decline to “upgrade”?

Microsoft says high prices have been the deterrent. Last month, the company trimmed prices on retail packages of Vista, trying to entice consumers to overcome their reluctance. In the United States, an XP user can now buy Vista Home Premium for $129.95, instead of $159.95.

An alternative theory, however, is that Vista’s reputation precedes it. XP users have heard too many chilling stories from relatives and friends about Vista upgrades that have gone badly. The graphics chip that couldn’t handle Vista’s whizzy special effects. The long delays as it loaded. The applications that ran at slower speeds. The printers, scanners and other hardware peripherals, which work dandily with XP, that lacked the necessary software, the drivers, to work well with Vista.

Can someone tell me again, why is switching XP for Vista an “upgrade”?

Here’s one story of a Vista upgrade early last year that did not go well. Jon, let’s call him, (bear with me — I’ll reveal his full identity later) upgrades two XP machines to Vista. Then he discovers that his printer, regular scanner and film scanner lack Vista drivers. He has to stick with XP on one machine just so he can continue to use the peripherals.

Did Jon simply have bad luck? Apparently not. When another person, Steven, hears about Jon’s woes, he says drivers are missing in every category — “this is the same across the whole ecosystem.”

Then there’s Mike, who buys a laptop that has a reassuring “Windows Vista Capable” logo affixed. He thinks that he will be able to run Vista in all of its glory, as well as favorite Microsoft programs like Movie Maker. His report: “I personally got burned.” His new laptop — logo or no logo — lacks the necessary graphics chip and can run neither his favorite video-editing software nor anything but a hobbled version of Vista. “I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine,” he says.

It turns out that Mike is clearly not a naïf. He’s Mike Nash, a Microsoft vice president who oversees Windows product management. And Jon, who is dismayed to learn that the drivers he needs don’t exist? That’s Jon A. Shirley, a Microsoft board member and former president and chief operating officer. And Steven, who reports that missing drivers are anything but exceptional, is in a good position to know: he’s Steven Sinofsky, the company’s senior vice president responsible for Windows.

Their remarks come from a stream of internal communications at Microsoft in February 2007, after Vista had been released as a supposedly finished product and customers were paying full retail price. Between the nonexistent drivers and PCs mislabeled as being ready for Vista when they really were not, Vista instantly acquired a reputation at birth: Does Not Play Well With Others.

We usually do not have the opportunity to overhear Microsoft’s most senior executives vent their personal frustrations with Windows. But a lawsuit filed against Microsoft in March 2007 in United States District Court in Seattle has pried loose a packet of internal company documents. The plaintiffs, Dianne Kelley and Kenneth Hansen, bought PCs in late 2006, before Vista’s release, and contend that Microsoft’s “Windows Vista Capable” stickers were misleading when affixed to machines that turned out to be incapable of running the versions of Vista that offered the features Microsoft was marketing as distinctive Vista benefits.

Last month, Judge Marsha A. Pechman granted class-action status to the suit, which is scheduled to go to trial in October. (Microsoft last week appealed the certification decision.)

Anyone who bought a PC that Microsoft labeled “Windows Vista Capable” without also declaring “Premium Capable” is now a party in the suit. The judge also unsealed a cache of 200 e-mail messages and internal reports, covering Microsoft’s discussions of how best to market Vista, beginning in 2005 and extending beyond its introduction in January 2007. The documents incidentally include those accounts of frustrated Vista users in Microsoft’s executive suites. Read more...

[Via The New York Times]


Poor ol' Microsoft and all the hardware partners who get screwed every time Microsoft messes up.
drgrudge
Mar 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM
A great article - a must read.

But things are not as bad as written. SP 1 will do the damage control - but it's taking a lot of time than we expected.

Personally I like to have XP and apply some VS than going for the Vista (I hate its looks).
ray|raven
Mar 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM
^ As if paying for the OS wasnt enuf , I gotta pay for an app to change the theme too.
What's next ? Maybe pay for an app to change wallpapers?
drgrudge
Mar 11, 2008 at 5:42 PM
^^
Eh? Without the need for any app, I can change the looks via VS. It involves patching uxtheme.dll file and then applying it.
*www.manast.com/2007/04/02/10-beautiful-visual-styles-for-windows-xp/
napster007
Mar 11, 2008 at 5:47 PM
even a idiot know's that he can d'load the vista compatible drivers of the internet. If ur sticking to Xp just cus ur old driver's arn't supported well...thats simply ignorance
ray|raven
Mar 11, 2008 at 5:47 PM
^ Duh!,I know. I did use Windows XP, albeit for a small amount of time.

But , Why exactly do I have to go and "patch" stuff in an OS that i paid for?
It sure isnt some feature that's gonna put my system at risk.
And arent the windows guys advocating "out-of-the-box-functionality"

Gimme one goddamn reason why MS has to disable themes?
ring_wraith
Mar 11, 2008 at 6:03 PM
This article made me say one thing... ouch.

Windows Vista is following the sign that says "Complete and irrecoverable failure"

If this continues, I really might have to consider switching to a Mac.
praka123
Mar 11, 2008 at 6:19 PM
really interesting article. :p
gxsaurav
gxsaurav #10
Mar 11, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Here’s one story of a Vista upgrade early last year that did not go well. Jon, let’s call him, (bear with me — I’ll reveal his full identity later) upgrades two XP machines to Vista. Then he discovers that his printer, regular scanner and film scanner lack Vista drivers. He has to stick with XP on one machine just so he can continue to use the peripherals.

Since the hardware manufacturer refuced to release new Vista compatible driver for there old hardware, so that there new hardware can sale...You are blaming Microsoft?

nVidia didn't release proper 100 series forceware drivers for my old FX 5900XT, so is this the fault of Microsoft to bring new technologies to the market.?

His new laptop — logo or no logo — lacks the necessary graphics chip and can run neither his favorite video-editing software nor anything but a hobbled version of Vista. “I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine,” he says.

So it is not the fault of the hardware manufacturer but Microsoft, when MS released in 2002 that Vista will require a graphics card with DX 9 support.
Gigacore
Gigacore #11
Mar 11, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Vista sucks, no doubt :lol: XP is preferred by most of the users after the release of Vista, major reason: hardware.
Vista will be the primary OS in every PC after the release vienna :lol: Coz at that time the hardware can digest Vista, but users can't afford to Vienna :lol:
din
din #12
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:06 PM
Since the hardware manufacturer refuced to release new Vista compatible driver for there old hardware, so that there new hardware can sale...You are blaming Microsoft?

nVidia didn't release proper 100 series forceware drivers for my old FX 5900XT, so is this the fault of Microsoft to bring new technologies to the market.?



So it is not the fault of the hardware manufacturer but Microsoft, when MS released in 2002 that Vista will require a graphics card with DX 9 support.

Sorry, not into a flame war, but I just couldn't control !!!!!

Isn't it the same thing all Lin guys were telling when they were attacked all these days ?

OMG Finally these Lin n Win guys started speaking the same thing ;)

God save Digit Forum :D
Cyrus_the_virus
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:11 PM
errr, why is this in the Techonology News section? What kinda news is this? Shouldn't this be in Chit Chat or something?

@arya, being a long standing member here, you should have known better.
Gigacore
Gigacore #14
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:13 PM
lol din. whats the fun without a fight in digit forum?
aryayush
aryayush #15
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:18 PM
errr, why is this in the Techonology News section? What kinda news is this? Shouldn't this be in Chit Chat or something?

@arya, being a long standing member here, you should have known better.
Frankly, I don't know where to post articles I see online that aren't exactly news but sure are related to technology. I've read each category's title and description and this seems to be the most apt one for this purpose.
Cyrus_the_virus
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:24 PM
Since the hardware manufacturer refuced to release new Vista compatible driver for there old hardware, so that there new hardware can sale...You are blaming Microsoft?

nVidia didn't release proper 100 series forceware drivers for my old FX 5900XT, so is this the fault of Microsoft to bring new technologies to the market.?



So it is not the fault of the hardware manufacturer but Microsoft, when MS released in 2002 that Vista will require a graphics card with DX 9 support.

YES, YES, YES, It's Microsoft's fault! What makes you think otherwise?

This is the very thing that distinguishes a company from whether they give a damn about their very own consumers or whether they just care about the money they get from the consumers!

It is the fault of Microsoft to release a product which was being advertised as it could do this, it could do that (which we all now know is just $h1t :lol: and the only thing good about it is support for DX10 for games) without making sure that necessary support is available for it to do this and that!

If there is a product which is not expected to do something over the top and having no support for it is understandable but portraying Vista as something so great and capable of doing everything in the world when M$ very well knew it cannot is MICROSOFT's fault! Get this into your head!

How many complain (expect you and other Winboys) that it's Linux's fault for something not being compatible with it! We all know what Linux can do and what's it's capable of and no one is heart broken when they know some of their hardware doesn't work linux (although Linux now has better hardware support than Vista!) But the case of Vista is not like that! It was advertised as something it was simply not capable of doing! and that is M$'s fault!

MS Over-Promised and Under-Delivered! (Makes everyone angry, frustrated and sad)

Linux always Under-Promises and Over-Delivers (Makes anyone happy)
aditya.shevade
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:29 PM
This article made me say one thing... ouch.

Windows Vista is following the sign that says "Complete and irrecoverable failure"

If this continues, I really might have to consider switching to a Mac.

There there.... if you don't like macs then move to Linux. Simple :)
mediator
mediator #18
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Vista sucks, no doubt :lol: XP is preferred by most of the users after the release of Vista, major reason: hardware.
Vista will be the primary OS in every PC after the release vienna :lol: Coz at that time the hardware can digest Vista, but users can't afford to Vienna :lol:
I got a Quad now with 3 gigs of Mem which I think can easily digest 2 instances of VISTA running simultaneously on virtual box on my host werewolf(Fedora). But I have seen and worked on VISTA a lot now. But frankly I agree with @grudge. The looks are pathetic and it works slow on my friends duo core, 2 Gigs Mem lappy. So I guess I wont "upgrade" from Xp to VISTA for my family until and unless forced to.

IMO, XP is far more easy than VISTA which seems to be all cluttered up.

Back then in 2002-03 I guess mine was the latest machine with 2.4 Ghz and having latest windows OS i.e XP. It became bearable after SP2. But with VISTA, first they released late and then SP1 has been released relatively later I guess and it still works slow on fast machines.
Faun
Faun #19
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Sorry, not into a flame war, but I just couldn't control !!!!!

Isn't it the same thing all Lin guys were telling when they were attacked all these days ?

OMG Finally these Lin n Win guys started speaking the same thing ;)

God save Digit Forum :D
lol :D
anispace
anispace #20
Mar 11, 2008 at 9:56 PM
whats the big fuss about? Vista runs perfectly fine on my 3yr old HP Pavilion Pentium 4 with 1.25GB RAM and a XFX geforce 8400.

No driver issues for anything including the printer. If it doesnt have the driver it downloads it of the internet (if its available from the manufacturer).

I have a licensed WinXP home edition but just wanted to try out Vista. But now i dont feel like going back to XP. Yeah the interface is a little new and some people might take time to adapt but after that its just awesome.
Stability is almost at par with XP even without SP1. Zero BSOD till date.
din
din #21
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:06 PM
@anispace

Consider yourself as very lucky !! I am not against Vista, but I have seen / heard / read a lot of people around the world having issues with Vista and moving back to XP.
iMav
iMav #22
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:08 PM
YES, YES, YES, It's Microsoft's fault! What makes you think otherwise?
:lol: just goes to show the desparation that u anti-MS guys will go to show Vista and anything MS in bad light .... intel not releasing drivers for vista is MS's fault :lol:
aryayush
aryayush #23
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Statements of Windows fanboys that we are supposed to make head or tail out of:

1. Microsoft makes the software, others make the hardware. It is not Microsoft's fault if the hardware guys don't have appropriate support for the software.

2. It is, however, Linux OS' fault if it isn't appropriately supported by the hardware.

3. Apple should sell the software without bundling it with the hardware because as you can see in the first point, that model works so very well.

Madness, I say. :lol:
Cyrus_the_virus
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:16 PM
:lol: just goes to show the desparation that u anti-MS guys will go to show Vista and anything MS in bad light .... intel not releasing drivers for vista is MS's fault :lol:

Read what I said again Winboy.;) And this time read the whole thing including the justification for the statement, desperation shown not by me, by you by only reading the statement and not the justification for the statement. Get alive :lol:

BTW, the bottom line is, Vista is a failure considering what M$ falsely portrayed it to be, and unfortunately I'm not the only person in the world who has that opinion :lol:
gxsaurav
gxsaurav #25
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:32 PM
YES, YES, YES, It's Microsoft's fault! What makes you think otherwise?

Lolz...desperation at the max.

portraying Vista as something so great and capable of doing everything in the world when M$ very well knew it cannot is MICROSOFT's fault!

What do u do one a computer??? I don't know about you but this is what I do on Windows Vista based new workstation I recently got.

1) Online work such as EMail, browsing etc.

2) My Professional work which includes 3Ds Max, Photoshop CS3, Illustrator CS3, Microsoft Blend & Adobe After effect

3) Games

4) HTPC using Pinnacle PCV Tuner kit for Vista & the supplied PCTV WMC Remote, for TV, Movies, DVDs, VCD, downloaded videos.

5) Music Jukebox. I just connect any friend's Mobile Phone or PMP & WMC plays songs from it automatically either over USB or Bluetooth

6) What else can I do on my PC...hmm, let me know something I can do...:D

So yeah, we can do whatever we want using Windows Vista.
NucleusKore
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Nice post Aryayush.
satyamy
satyamy #27
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Recently Upgraded From XP to Vista
Its good and working fine :D
Cyrus_the_virus
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:51 PM
Lolz...desperation at the max.

Already answered, read post#24, why do you winboys make me keep repeating this?

So yeah, we can do whatever we want using Windows Vista.

:lol: where's the hardware which this conversation is all about? :lol:
Once again, @gx's unsuccessful attempt of trying to divert the topic :lol:

BTW, if there was something Vista couldn't do for what it portrayed to being able to do, there wouldn't be lawsuits against them about things like Vista capable when it was incapable! :lol:

I'm repeating myself once again:
The bottom line is, Vista is a failure considering what M$ falsely portrayed it to be, and unfortunately I'm not the only person in the world who has that opinion :lol:
H
Hitboxx #29
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:57 PM
All done guys? If there is more to say just put a note in the post, I got a better section for this supposedly news topic.
MetalheadGautham
Mar 11, 2008 at 10:59 PM
intresting article.

@grudge: fully agree there. Vista still looks unpolished, but even SP1 is taking its own time.

@raven(regarding first post of yours): talking about paying for changing wallpaper, do you remember that Macintosh was notorious for asking its users to "Pay" to watch videos in Full Screen ? Only quick time pro could view videos in fullscreen, and you had to buy it seperately. But I don't know about the current situation.

All done guys? If there is more to say just put a note in the post, I got a better section for this supposedly news topic.

lets put this in the News Club:lol:
S
Mar 11, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Vista Runs fine on my machine,looks good coz GUI is very cool but a bit user-unfriendly with many yes or no dialog boxes.I find Vista to be Gr8 if it stops giving BSOD's due to 4 gig RAM.I have to remove a 2GB stick b4 installing vista which causes me to tear my hair off!!
H
hellgate #32
Mar 11, 2008 at 11:34 PM
i'm running Vista since it has RTM'ed.and since then i've had only 2 BSOD.and with XP i had lots.i've never looked back to XP for all my computer needs.never had any driver issue,watever was needed was downloaded from Windows Update.
now if some1 installs vista on incompatible hardware and cries foul then is it MS' fault??

Vista Runs fine on my machine,looks good coz GUI is very cool but a bit user-unfriendly with many yes or no dialog boxes.I find Vista to be Gr8 if it stops giving BSOD's due to 4 gig RAM.I have to remove a 2GB stick b4 installing vista which causes me to tear my hair off!!

why dont u use Vsiat x64 if u use 4GB ram.even i use Vista 64-bit on my pc and 32bit on my lappy.
S
Mar 11, 2008 at 11:41 PM
i'm running Vista since it has RTM'ed.and since then i've had only 2 BSOD.and with XP i had lots.i've never looked back to XP for all my computer needs.never had any driver issue,watever was needed was downloaded from Windows Update.
now if some1 installs vista on incompatible hardware and cries foul then is it MS' fault??



why dont u use Vsiat x64 if u use 4GB ram.even i use Vista 64-bit on my pc and 32bit on my lappy.
i also causes crashes at installation:(
2GB is enuf. for running vista IMO
H
hellgate #34
Mar 11, 2008 at 11:53 PM
i also causes crashes at installation:(
2GB is enuf. for running vista IMO

but for me it hs never crashed when installing with 4GB of system ram.ran it with Q6600 on XFX 680i and P5B Dlx.no prb at all.
ahv u enabled the Memory Remap Feature with all the 4 dimms populated?

and yes 2GB in Dual Channel mode is ok for Vista.
techtronic
Mar 12, 2008 at 1:38 AM
IMHO, the method of campaigning about Vista Capable and Vista Premium PC itself was bad. Also just like XP, Microsoft could have released 3 versions of Windows Vista rather than launching 5. IMHO Home Premium, Business and Enterprise would have been much more simple than complicating the versions.The Hardware and Software markets are both inter dependent on each other.M$ blaming Intel for incompatible drivers and nVIDIA blaming M$ for software incompatibility offers no help to end users who are the worst affected.And saying Linux is bad as it supports no drivers literally $ucks. Every OS has its share of $hits and g00ds.
iMav
iMav #36
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:02 AM
Statements of Windows fanboys that we are supposed to make head or tail out of:
1. Microsoft makes the software, others make the hardware. It is not Microsoft's fault if the hardware guys don't have appropriate support for the software.
despite of betas if people cant release appropriate drivers then its not MS to be blamed MS
2. It is, however, Linux OS' fault if it isn't appropriately supported by the hardware.
free advise that can be ignored: stick to ur mac world :)

no 1 has blamed linux for, the reason why linux doesnt have drivers is because its just not considered worth wasting time upon :)
3. Apple should sell the software without bundling it with the hardware because as you can see in the first point, that model works so very well.
i find no reason why apple cannot come up with a legal version of os x that would work on pc :) the reason why it does not is because it knows the hardware vendors do not have the capability to keep in sync with software development

@cyrus: sir nothing but just :lol: thank u the forums were becoming boring
MetalheadGautham
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:10 AM
Statements of Windows fanboys that we are supposed to make head or tail out of:
despite of betas if people cant release appropriate drivers then its not MS to be blamed MS
free advise that can be ignored: stick to ur mac world :)

no 1 has blamed linux for, the reason why linux doesnt have drivers is because its just not considered worth wasting time upon :)
i find no reason why apple cannot come up with a legal version of os x that would work on pc :) the reason why it does not is because it knows the hardware vendors do not have the capability to keep in sync with software development

@cyrus: sir nothing but just :lol: thank u the forums were becoming boring
1. Only reason there are no drivers for Vi$ta is that its just rushed. They brought it too quickly into the market.

2. keep your Pi$$ta to yourself but leave linux alone. Its far too superior, and thanks to the potential it has, there are tonnes and tonnes of developers working on making it compatible with every hardware. Infact, companies like AMD are being forced to concider linux, as its the only way they can remain alive in the market.

3. If mac is released for PC, the sales of Macintosh PCs will drop by over 80%, as nobody will need to buy expensive computers anymore to run a few apps. So its not a logical move for apple to release a version of Macintosh OS for the PC. Doing so will be like suicide.
gxsaurav
gxsaurav #38
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:16 AM
:lol: where's the hardware which this conversation is all about? :lol:

I was doing the same thing on my old 4.5 years old PC & now doing the same thing on my New Workstation....I upgraded the workstation just cos of Job.

despite of betas if people cant release appropriate drivers then its not MS to be blamed MS

+1

1. Only reason there are no drivers for Vi$ta is that its just rushed. They brought it too quickly into the market.

Longhorn beta was given to developers in year 2003, they had lots of time to make drivers.

keep your a$$holePi$$ta to yourself but leave linux alone

Post reported, why do u get irked if someone blames Linux? Is Linux your GF or Wife??? :D
praka123
praka123 #40
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:24 AM
@gxsourav:so was you when someone talks about vi$ta :rolleyes:
MetalheadGautham
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:26 AM
@gxsourav:so was you when someone talks about vi$ta :rolleyes:
he just wants to see me in my first ban.
don't worry, it will happen soon.

PS: move this to the fight club ?
iMav
iMav #42
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:26 AM
@gxsourav:so was you when someone talks about vi$ta :rolleyes:
we dont use language like the 1 used by u guys where words like sh1t hole and other name calling goes on such windows users are trans-sexual etc .... u guys just cant keep the discussion clean ... u cant argue so u start using such language and words
MetalheadGautham
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:28 AM
we dont use language like the 1 used by u guys where words like sh1t hole and other name calling goes on such windows users are trans-sexual etc .... u guys just cant keep the discussion clean
ok, ok. Peace. I will edit the offending line and make it something milder.
praka123
praka123 #44
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:28 AM
@imav:so do u ppl :-| too!M$ doesnot endorsed u ppl to come here to protect vi$ta :-|

while OSS ppl are posting to resolve the FUD spreaded by M$haft ppl :evil:
iMav
iMav #45
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:32 AM
while OSS ppl are posting to resolve the FUD spreaded by M$haft ppl :evil:
:lol: please tell us where have we "spread FUD" .... in tech news section take any and i mean any thread that has anything to do with MS and all u anti-MS guys will be there blaming and cursing MS for anything and everything they do and using highly provocative language and then u tell us that we are spreading FUD and protecting Vista :lol:
MetalheadGautham
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:33 AM
@imav:so do u ppl :-| too!M$ doesnot endorsed u ppl to come here to protect vi$ta :-|

while OSS ppl are posting to resolve the FUD spreaded by M$haft ppl :evil:
dude, let 'em talk what they want. Lets just concentrate on planning how to download Ubuntu 8.04 DVD.
praka123
praka123 #47
Mar 12, 2008 at 2:36 AM
Hmm...what say?somepeople cant live without daily dosages :rolleyes:
Let the M$ sun(or bluehole?) take the guy along with ..forum will be cleaner then :p
H
hellgate #48
Mar 12, 2008 at 3:07 AM
M$ doesnot endorsed u ppl to come here to protect vi$ta :-|

so ru being paid by the open source users community to come and promote Linux out here???
Faun
Faun #49
Mar 12, 2008 at 3:51 AM
lol, there is no hope in here...lol
kalpik
kalpik #50
Mar 12, 2008 at 8:18 AM
Thread locked because its gone WAAAYYY offtopic.

This is a warning to Praka, GX and Gautham.