DIGIT-ARC read-only archive · snapshot: July 23, 2026

U.K. standards body taken to court over OOXML

37 posts · originally from https://geek.digit.in/community/threads/u-k-standards-body-taken-to-court-over-ooxml.86903/

Cyrus_the_virus
Cyrus_the_virus Original post #1
May 3, 2008 at 3:13 PM
The British Standards Institution has been taken to court by a group of Unix users in an attempt to get the standards body to recant its approval of Microsoft's Office Open XML document format.

The UK Unix & Open Systems User Group said on Thursday that the British Standards Institution's controversial decision to vote for approval of OOXML in a recent International Organization for Standardization ballot followed a flawed decision-making process.

The UKUUG is also folding in many other complaints about Office Open XML (OOXML), such as unresolved patent issues and a lack of completion in the specification's documentation, and is calling for the High Court of Justice to force a judicial review of the BSI's decision. The UKUUG is hoping a judicial review would find the BSI decision to be flawed and reverse it.

OOXML is Microsoft's answer to the OpenDocument Format (ODF), an established ISO standard based entirely on open specifications. OOXML is also theoretically open, but central to the UKUUG's legal action is ISO's fast-tracking of the format into standardization without properly addressing its many unresolved technical flaws--an issue exacerbated by OOXML's extraordinary length as a specification, at 6,000 pages.

Following a highly contentious vote among national standards bodies, ISO announced on April 2 that OOXML was to become an official standard. There is, however, a two-month window following that date, during which the process can be derailed if one of the national standards bodies makes a formal appeal.

Serious objections have been raised within the decision-making community about the approval vote--notably in Norway, by the head of that country's technical committee--but none yet has come officially from any country's national standards body.

The UKUUG has been in existence for 32 years and is, according to Mark Taylor, the head of the Open Source Consortium (OSC), a "venerable organization of men with long grey beards."

"It is a testament to the feeling of injustice here," he told ZDNet UK on Thursday. "This is the first time they've done something like this."

Speaking to ZDNet UK on Thursday, UKUUG head Alain Williams said his group's objection was that ISO and the BSI were "trying to put forward something that is not fit for purpose."

"Microsoft is trying to game the standards process because they don't want a standard that can be implemented by other people," he said. "If they had wanted that, they could have gone with the ODF format (but), if they adopt something like that, they begin to lose their stranglehold on the desktop."

"Something that had that high a level of contention is not suitable for fast-tracking," Williams added.

Williams claimed the official backing of OOXML would harm not only the UK IT industry, by virtue of perpetuating Microsoft's "monopoly," but the country as a whole by not using an open standard that is guaranteed to be usable into the distant future. "If you're talking about reading documents in one or two hundred years' time, you would have great problems in doing it (with documents based on OOXML)," he said.

The OSC's Taylor told ZDNet UK that the UKUUG's action carried with it "prima facie evidence that the BSI's processes have not been complied with or done in a very strange way."

"A lot of us believe there are questions to be answered," said Taylor. "The remedy that is being sought is a mandatory order to withdraw the BSI's vote approving (OOXML). The BSI hasn't followed its own processes. For example, the (claim) that it was unanimously decided to pass (OOXML)--it wasn't. People will be called as witnesses to show there are serious problems with the BSI's processes."

Taylor, however, did not express confidence in the ability of the action--if successful--to reverse the ISO vote without similar actions being launched in other countries. "I don't believe the BSI on its own would be sufficient to pull the vote back, but it would certainly make a dent in it," he said. "Should there be others, it would certainly change the percentages (in the ISO tally)."

The BSI had not commented on the UKUUG's legal action at the time of writing.

Source: cNet
iMav
iMav #2
May 3, 2008 at 3:56 PM
i don't know MS taking legal action against any country tht voted against the standard :lol: sore losers
Cyrus_the_virus
May 3, 2008 at 4:08 PM
i don't know MS taking legal action against any country tht voted against the standard :lol: sore losers

That's because there is no grounds to do that on i-meow:rolleyes: No legitimate reason :lol:

and thanks to your ignorance, you missed this:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83644
praka123
May 3, 2008 at 4:16 PM
well,thanks to those sane ppl in UK to fought against the monopoly devil :)
hellknight
May 3, 2008 at 5:10 PM
OOXML sucks man, ODF is better. Thank God India voted against OOXML format. But I hate Infosys, NASSCOM, Wipro, TCS etc who voted for OOXML. These companies don't really care for national interest.
iMav
iMav #6
May 3, 2008 at 5:53 PM
That's because there is no grounds to do that on i-meow:rolleyes: No legitimate reason :lol:

and thanks to your ignorance, you missed this:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83644
dude filing a complaint with a governing body and the court :? i don't think that is the same :rolleyes:
Cyrus_the_virus
May 3, 2008 at 6:55 PM
dude filing a complaint with a governing body and the court :? i don't think that is the same :rolleyes:

you can't file a case in the court when you're the one who's doing the wrong and when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up, that's why they protested with the governing body, because their cause has no genuine reason. :lol:
iMav
iMav #8
May 3, 2008 at 7:30 PM
you can't file a case in the court when you're the one who's doing the wrong and when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up, that's why they protested with the governing body, because their cause has no genuine reason
that's a rubbish statement, when ur doing wrong, what do u mean doing wrong, what wrong has MS done considering the fact that it is now a Standard already, if it was so freaking wrong why would it win? I don't think people are so freaking dumb or desperate, considering the trumpet that OSS blows that is this and that and yet is no where wen compared to Windows and people aren't even freaking bothered to hack into Linux even after finding a vulnerability

and being in india you making such a statement is quite funny :lol:
T
May 3, 2008 at 7:38 PM
i ridicule microsoft fanboys everyday in my college.. do you have any on these forums?
Cyrus_the_virus
May 3, 2008 at 8:16 PM
that's a rubbish statement, when ur doing wrong, what do u mean doing wrong, what wrong has MS done considering the fact that it is now a Standard already, if it was so freaking wrong why would it win? I don't think people are so freaking dumb or desperate(I wonder where shantanu is and why he doesn't find this objectionable when MS fanboys say it), considering the trumpet that OSS blows that is this and that and yet is no where wen compared to Windows and people aren't even freaking bothered to hack into Linux even after finding a vulnerability

and being in india you making such a statement is quite funny

:lol: can't stop laughing at your ignorance man. :lol:

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=792700&postcount=21
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=805044&postcount=42

Should you have read this? Forget it man, understanding what really went on is only for intellectual people, for others, you fall into the trap of the smoke glass that MS has!

iMeow and saying something against MS no matter even if god says it's wrong, aren't we expecting too much of him guys? :lol:

Various threads have already discussed the pathetic state of OOXML, don't attempt to turn this thread into one of them, if you have no idea about what OOXML really is, then please read the threads or go google it, don't waste our time trying to prove it over and over again.

If you want to discuss something, stick to the news, and don't attempt to deviate the topic. Atleast use some of your useless time to read what is actually written in the posted news. It becomes an ISO standard only after the one month appeals time is over.:rolleyes:
iMav
iMav #11
May 3, 2008 at 8:27 PM
ya ya and ya and you think that all those links are gonna change anything :) the fact is that people who drive India's growth support it, deal with it and if ... baaah forget it, i don't wanna get banned.

just remmeber don't spam the boards with use linux links man, i don't see any1 spamming the OSS section with any links that show linux in bad, so i request you not to do the same please

and that comment was neither general nor targeted towards any forum member i was saying that people who voted for OOXML are not dumb neither are they desperate :)
Cyrus_the_virus
May 3, 2008 at 8:32 PM
just remmeber don't spam the boards with use linux links man, i don't see any1 spamming the OSS section with any links that show linux in bad, so i request you not to do the same please

:confused::confused: And why in the world are you talking about linux? who is talking about OSS or linux here? Here is your problem iMav, even when someone talks about a product, you think they are biased because they are comparing it to OSS or linux:lol::lol: and you're mentally so inclined to create everything MS has to do with windows vs linux :lol:

God and iMeow alone knows where LINUX and OSS came into this thread :lol:

Anyways, can you show me which links I have posted has anything to do with Linux or OSS? what links are you talking about? BTW, there is no section as such that you should post only linux and only windows, this forum is not your property, so yeah, live with it.. live with the links.. although I don't know which links.. :lol:
iMav
iMav #13
May 3, 2008 at 8:46 PM
The British Standards Institution has been taken to court by a group of Unix users in an attempt to get the standards body to recant its approval of Microsoft's Office Open XML document format.

The UK Unix & Open Systems User Group said on Thursday that the British Standards Institution's controversial decision to vote for approval of OOXML in a recent International Organization for Standardization ballot followed a flawed decision-making process.
and that was my last post in the thread
Cyrus_the_virus
May 3, 2008 at 8:49 PM
and that was my last post in the thread

Shows your knowledge of what you think unix is and what linux is and what oss is... :lol: forget it man, stop deviating the thread anymore.
gary4gar
gary4gar #15
May 4, 2008 at 10:39 AM
On topic:
Okay I accept OOXML as a ISO standard but still there are few issues that need to be sorted out. i would be happy if MS takes care of them

1) Currently there is not implementation which is 100% Compatible
2) The specification is incomplete & has lot of bugs, wonder how is managed to Pass through ISO. Microsoft is really powerful i must say. Perhaps others should learn from it
infra_red_dude
May 4, 2008 at 1:59 PM
IMHO neither ODF nor OOXML deserve the being an ISO standard. ODF lags behind OOXML while OOXML is very buggy and not at all an independent entity.
Cyrus_the_virus
May 4, 2008 at 3:13 PM
1) Currently there is not implementation which is 100% Compatible
2) The specification is incomplete & has lot of bugs, wonder how is managed to Pass through ISO. Microsoft is really powerful i must say. Perhaps others should learn from it

100% true, only if everyone:rolleyes: could understand it.

IMHO neither ODF nor OOXML deserve the being an ISO standard. ODF lags behind OOXML while OOXML is very buggy and not at all an independent entity.

@infra, ODF was discussed thoroughly and became a standard only after it passed through ISO after 2-3years of approval process. It was not fastracked and lobbied and ballot stuffed by anyone and discussing a 600 pages document over 2-3 years is not hard.

On the other hand, OOXML being 10times more complicated, and more and 6500 pages was fastracked within a year's span and not all the issues found in the 6500 pages were discussed. Lot of ballot stuffing, lobbying by NGO's and an undisputed corrupt voting process(a very good example being norway's vote). This all simply doesn't give credibility to the ISO'ing of any format.

So, whether you like it not, OOXML will never be seen as credible format after the illegitimate passing of it at ISO. ODF has gone through the process of ISO they way it is supposed to and hence no shawdow of doubt can be cast over it's approval whether you like it or not. So, just because you think ODF lags behind OOXML and hence it should deserve ISO'ing is foolishness. :lol:

BTW, no one is against OOXML from becoming an ISO, the only problem is, if it is worth becoming an ISO on it's own technical merit then, it should have gone through the normal approval process without all the dirty lobbying and hidden patent traps.

Why push something if it's good to stand on it's own????? Does it make sense? The technical community is not foolish to push something away if it's good, rather they will try to use it. But if you try stuffing it down their throats saying it is good when it has atleast 1 unresolved flaw found in every 2 pages of the 6500 pages document, then this is exactly what you get!
praka123
praka123 #18
May 4, 2008 at 4:50 PM
IMHO neither ODF nor OOXML deserve the being an ISO standard. ODF lags behind OOXML while OOXML is very buggy and not at all an independent entity.
....that I dont know the innards of these so called open formats :p .one thing -that Gnome guys were supporting ooxml(de Iqaza and others) :D
gxsaurav
gxsaurav #20
May 4, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Which format is the most used electronics document format in the world?
Cyrus_the_virus
May 4, 2008 at 8:26 PM
Which format is the most used electronics document format in the world?

which ever that might be doesn't mean it should become a standard. Stop having the misconception that what is used more is a standard! it's monopoly not standard. Standards are open. Not closed or with Patent traps. I remember the last time I gave you an explanation about this, you were no where to be seen on that thread after that!:rolleyes: Are you trying to bring up the same topic?
praka123
praka123 #22
May 4, 2008 at 8:46 PM
what ever M$ sh!t out must be eaten by everyone.

-Microshaft/winblows fanboy ideology

^ :rolleyes:
iMav
iMav #23
May 4, 2008 at 9:12 PM
dude keep it clean man
infra_red_dude
May 4, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Agreed that ODF has gone thru extensive testing before becoming a std. but I still think compared to OOXML it should improve a lot.

And I am against OOXML standard too. Anyways, we are digressing from the topic.
iMav
iMav #25
May 4, 2008 at 10:38 PM
i'm rather surprised that fellow members are absolutely fine with certain members using a certain language and then when a certain section of members start objecting to it, every1 is up in arms against them, saying that they are digressing from the topic, they are degrading the forums etc. etc. but language used by others is fine just because they are promoting OSS.
T
May 5, 2008 at 11:24 AM
ms fanboys need to be paraded naked on a donkey.. and the stupid guy who said the format which is used more automatically becomes better should be slapped ..... qwerty is used more than dvorak , doesnt make it better...
iMav
iMav #27
May 5, 2008 at 11:26 AM
EDIT:

linux fanboys need to be paraded naked on a donkey.. and the stupid guy who said the format which is used more automatically does not become a standard should be slapped
T
May 5, 2008 at 12:22 PM
hell if microsoft didnt get their kicks from stealing features from unix, linux and mac osx , nowadays their fanboys are even stealing(copying) posts from linux users.. this is commonly accepted ms fanboy behavior i guess.

whats the world coming to .. i hope you dont plan to steal my underwear too
praka123
praka123 #29
May 5, 2008 at 12:24 PM
M$fanboys everywhere!Ignorance is bliss! :rolleyes:
iMav
iMav #30
May 5, 2008 at 12:42 PM
hell if microsoft didnt get their kicks from stealing features from unix, linux and mac osx , nowadays their fanboys are even stealing(copying) posts from linux users.. this is commonly accepted ms fanboy behavior i guess.

whats the world coming to .. i hope you dont plan to steal my underwear too
[offtopic]
the thing is that moderators here prefer to lock/warn/ban only when pro-MS comments start coming in, until then it makes no difference to them to the kind of derogatory comments and profanity that is used by people in the name of promoting OSS, so rather than we saying something similar, we choose to use your words so that atleast we aren't entirely blamed (note: we will still be blamed for taking the thread offtopic, inspite of no productive contribution by others)
[/offtopic]
Cyrus_the_virus
May 5, 2008 at 12:46 PM
@iMeow, for the love of god, please stop acting like and kid and trying so hard to get this thread locked. If you have nothing better to say, stop crapping this thread.

@threeonethree, please stay away from making such comments as it would just add fuel to the fire and get this thread closed, we understand your frustration but it would be better to practice restrain when @iMeow is trying so hard to get this thread closed by making absolutely offtopic comments from the very beginning. Please don't fall for such traps. ;)

Edit: lol.. I dont' want to add another post repeating the same thing... useless.. iMeov just garbagin this thread. Grow up iMeow, the topic has nothing to do with linux. You seriously have some mental imbalance. I thought I already asked you to shut your mouth if you have nothing to say on topic and converting every thread into a linux v/s windows thing when it has absolutely nothing to do with windows, linux or OSS.
iMav
iMav #32
May 5, 2008 at 1:02 PM
*www.duelinganalogs.com/comics/2007-04-02.png

It's a Microsoft world kid, I'm just living in it.
H
Hitboxx #33
May 5, 2008 at 1:48 PM
Oh damn, give it a rest guys! How many threads, how many discussions, have we had on this now, forget about computers for one day please!

My warning list based on this thread:

1) praka123 - total OSS punk I agree, stop throwing tantrums and fhs, call Microsoft as Microsoft.

2) iMav - total Windows devotee I agree, take a break, if you find people indulging in rigrats, hit the report button, don't counter-attack with things like the above.

3) threeonethree - fresh stock, don't troll fueling OS war discussions, you're fairly new, so I will be watching you

4) Cyrus_the_virus - Ubuntu boy, please don't mock users, he's iMav and stop flaming.

Next offtopic posts will be deleted without notification and thread will be closed if not yet understood.


EDIT: @threeonthree, I read your deleted post below, if your old as you say, then why oh why are you engaging in things like donkeys above? You should know better. Engage in the discussion, not at the discussion please. This is plain childish.
Cyrus_the_virus
May 5, 2008 at 3:11 PM
4) Cyrus_the_virus - Ubuntu boy, please don't mock users, he's iMav and stop flaming.

You say something and mock back at me? Just because I have a ubuntu logo, calling something like an ubuntu boy is mocking :rolleyes: equal to calling you a metal guitar kid.

I really don't understand where I've spoken about ubuntu, linux or OSS on this thread for you to call me anything close to ubuntu. And please do provide me some insight into where I've flamed on this thread over and above the kind of flaming iMav has done. I've advised users to stick to the topic from teh very beginning of the thread.

Bottom line is, please don't mock users when you ask others to not mock users. Doesn't set a good example. When iMav hiself has never objected to anyone calling him iMeow, I don't think you should have a problem. Hope you get the point.;)

Peace...:)
H
Hitboxx #35
May 5, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Ok I am at fault here, probably I wasn't able to put it the way I intended to. Let me clarify.

By Ubuntu Boy, what I tried to do was establish your liking for all things Ubuntu (linux?) at which obviously I failed quite miserably. I wanted to put that in a positive intent and same of praka by calling him OSS 'punk'.

And flaming was definitely the wrong word there, it should have been bickering (arguments), wherein one says A, then you say B, a third says C, you reply D, and so on...and so forth, in this case, into offtopic discussions.

I guess if I had put a couple of smilies up there, this situation would not have arisen in the first place itself.

Hope I'm clear.

Regarding iMav and your relations, that is upto you guys, if you're ok (and want) to call names, I'm ok. I did what I had to do as a mod.
din
din #36
May 5, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Offtopic - Sorry but couldn't resist. Serious readers, please skip this post.

I am not into the war, but would like to post something.

In my opinion, the mods of ThinkDigit are the best. I must say Excellent in doing their job. They might be supporting some OS in the past, they might be supporting some companies before, but after becoming mod, they never show any partiality, at least I have never seen such things. And I have never seen them doing anything wrong so far.

I think we should refrain from criticizing them for no reason. I couldn't see anything wrong in Hitboxx's first post. Actually I am surprised to see his second post, I do not think it was needed. But by the second post he made it very clear and and that makes his stand even more respectable.

Now, please guys, stop this, give respect to all other members n mods and come back to the topic.
Cyrus_the_virus
May 5, 2008 at 5:54 PM
Ok I am at fault here, probably I wasn't able to put it the way I intended to. Let me clarify.

By Ubuntu Boy, what I tried to do was establish your liking for all things Ubuntu (linux?) at which obviously I failed quite miserably. I wanted to put that in a positive intent and same of praka by calling him OSS 'punk'.

And flaming was definitely the wrong word there, it should have been bickering (arguments), wherein one says A, then you say B, a third says C, you reply D, and so on...and so forth, in this case, into offtopic discussions.

I guess if I had put a couple of smilies up there, this situation would not have arisen in the first place itself.

Hope I'm clear.

Regarding iMav and your relations, that is upto you guys, if you're ok (and want) to call names, I'm ok. I did what I had to do as a mod.

Point taken, however I still fail to understand this:

By Ubuntu Boy, what I tried to do was establish your liking for all things Ubuntu (linux?)

I don't know how even after repeatedly telling in the thread, especially to iMav that this is not about linux or OSS v/s windows, you could classify me that way?:(

I hope this post again was proof enough:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=819618&postcount=12

So, I take your point but just to clear the air, I regret that you would classify me as supporting only linux things even after repeating several times that it's not about linux or OSS in this thread. I hope you would make a more closer examination of all posts in a thread before coming to classification like that in the future.;) Peace out....:)