Why the insecurity about looks, age and skin colour (marriage/relationships)?

A

Alright, the thing goes like this: I (and by extension most of my friends) are at an age where we are young, nearly finished with studies and looking off towards a better future. For those who are trigger happy with relationships, this means the search is on. For others, they're at least thinking about things like love and marriage (and all that crap).

The more I talk to people, I realize a lot of **** is being thrown around about looks and skin colour in general as well as "preferences" in a relationship. This is not helped at all by depictions within local media (TV and print media). For example, common things I hear/see on a (almost) daily basis:

A) Dark guys can mix with and have relationships/marry any girl but a dark-skinned girl should not be in a relationship with any lighter skinned guy whatsoever. This is not helped by arranged marriage traditions sometimes discriminating against dark skinned women and favouring fairer ones, as well as common married couples seen every day where the lighter skinned man with a darker skinned woman is less common. Even in my college days I remember when a guy had a relationship with a darker girl people used to tell him "but she's so dark!". Also, note that TV serials seem to have a heavy bias towards lighter skinned women, going as far as performing skin tone correction in post processing to "boost" the skin tones (ever noticed why women are either together in a scene, or shown alone in most scenes and very few scenes show men and women in the same shot?)

So, Question 1: Why the hell does anyone care so much about skin colour? Why is "fair" perceived to be more attractive? "Attractiveness" is a very subjective thing, and what someone generally calls "attractive" is related to personality and features, not necessarily skin colour. Why is our nation obsessed with this?

B) What's the big deal about height and body building amongst guys, and the age thing? A lot of guys I know think being taller makes them automatically more attractive. For some reason a lot of men also like to hit on younger girls, sometimes much younger (I understand there's the maturity thing, but the thing is if you're 27 and are just as mature as a 20 year old girl, it's your loss and not something to be proud of!). Body building, well, its my opinion that if you're doing it just to impress girls, you've missed the point.

I always thought a good relationship is about trust, respect, care and personality rather than height, weight, age, skin colour and that crap. Yet, this kind of "preference" seems to cut across barriers, being somewhat prevalent in arranged marriages as well as love/relationship-based ones. What is the reason for this? Why is our media and social structure conditioned to think of "certain" things as being more desirable and attractive?

In fact, I'll even present some facts here:

1) If you start building your body, you'd better keep it that way. The skin ages considerably if it has to alternate between periods of expansion and contraction. So "occasional" builders will age faster.
2) In India, dark skinned people age slower and live longer. There is a scientific reason for this: More melanin = less sun damage (and India has an intense sun) = less ageing/contraction/expansion of the skin = less DNA damage. It is surprising that this is not desirable in India especially in arranged marriages where the intention is to ensure a long married happy life for the bride and groom.
3) Physical aging is a myth; today men and women age the same because the lifestyles are converging. In fact I'll say men age faster because they have rougher lifestyles at younger ages (Who hasn't gone out every day as boys to play the odd football/cricket match?

). That leaves hormonal aging as the only factor. Even so, men today aren't exactly example of grooming beauty after 30 either - how many people (men and women) today seem to be getting greys at an early age (for example)?

The only valid reason I understand is that of maturity - that women can be more mature than men at the same age. Over time, this will also change because your maturity is defined by your experiences in life and your personality and not by your gender.

So, why all this insecurity? If a guy or girl has a good personality, takes care of you and is a good person, and in case of arranged marriage is of a compatible culture/region/caste/(whatever), what else do you really need?

(I'm totally ignoring the money factor here so please don't bring it in

. Also, if someone says I'm a frustrated dark skinned guy, let's clear the air - I'm very light skinned and I've never had to face a problem with my skin colour anywhere in India. Even so I have seen this slight discrimination at times and have always wondered about it. I think a lot of dark skinned people are just as attractive, good-looking and intelligent as some lighter skinned people and shouldn't face disadvantages just because they are darker.

Think about it - a nation where over 80% of people are brownish-skinned obsesses a lot over the remaining less than 20%? Not cool!)

well its also a cultural thing we are... racist(not in the exact sense, but we do find reasons to discriminate easily colour, caste, religion etc.)
People try to find petty things to prove their superiority when they dont have enough brains or character or wit to actually be better than someone

With our generation , i see a change.. people are not so much concerned about such things but it's still their. It has not gone away.

With our generation , i see a change..

They still discriminate on the basis of color.

May be British influence

dashing.sujay said:
They still discriminate on the basis of color.

like i mentioned.. it's still there

Well, this - the skin color is a issue world wide and not just India.!
This one thing I hate about Indians is the caste discrimination!

R

Isn't it somewhat opposite among India and US?

Indians, majorly girls, are obsessed with white skin. (I, being an Indian, do have a "white" skin, and I can very well tell you with my first hand experience on how badly girls are obsessed with it.)

As for the US, I have many US friends in which, again, many are in favor of getting a tan. It's like a fashion over there. I won't say they dislike white skin, but they just prefer getting a tan cause it looks "cool". I'm talking about girls.

But I think, personally, fairness is a synonym of "clean" in India. Our parents would prefer a woman with a "cleaner" skin than a darker skin. I still remember my grandma saying one day - "yeh kudi te badi sundar si.. " just because she was really fair, which my grandma stated later. I think it's just.. how it is imbibed in our culture.

There are girls I know which are equally jealous of me, just because a GUY is fairer. What the hell? One girl came down to such a level that she actually offered some tanning lotion lol.

Hope this skin drama fades over sooner or later.

We indians r really obsessed by fair skin and u can check the sales figure of fair and lovely for comparison

But what the OP said about personality ,love and relationship is a different matter....

love can definitely happen with anyone....if a love is coz of fair skin then its just infatuation and will not work for long
In case of arrange marrige people prefer fair girls but dark men works...but a fair men likes to have fair women too soo that there family continues with fair skin

F*** the looks or skin colour or whatever the people say..... God has made all of us unique and we should be proud of what we are.....

Personally, I don't mind if I marry a black girl. But my parents will surely ask how you fell in love with her. And I have noticed one thing,if a girl is not good looking,say fat, no guy will talk to her, but not the same case with guys, if guy isn't good looking,people will talk unless he start first. youngsters are choosing friends(not love) based on their looks. I'll say to those kind of people,grow up.
If a girl can take care of me and family(if not care then atleast respect) then why wouldn't a guy marry her. Guys think(in case of arrange marriage) shadi to ek bar hoti hai, mast honi chahiye.

sujoyp said:
We indians r really obsessed by fair skin and u can check the sales figure of fair and lovely for comparison

But what the OP said about personality ,love and relationship is a different matter....

love can definitely happen with anyone....if a love is coz of fair skin then its just infatuation and will not work for long
In case of arrange marrige people prefer fair girls but dark men works...but a fair men likes to have fair women too soo that there family continues with fair skin

so true. I know a exactly a same case but I am not sure of reason,But people say,well they always say

A

roady said:
Isn't it somewhat opposite among India and US?

Yeah, to an extent it is, but even in the US people don't really dig the white or black skin colours. They're more into middle-of-the-road skin tones like beige, olive, yellow, etc. I recall several instances where some of the shallow (at the time) teenaged girls in the US used to think my mediterranean beige skin was so sexy

Tanning's the "in" thing there hehe

(But they need it because their extreme white skin doesn't produce enough melanin to protect them from sunburns and DNA damage, and if you're going to be travelling a lot with that kind of skin you'd better develop a good tan).

roady said:
Indians, majorly girls, are obsessed with white skin. (I, being an Indian, do have a "white" skin, and I can very well tell you with my first hand experience on how badly girls are obsessed with it.)

I know, that's kinda why I started this thread. So many of my friends, now afraid they won't find a lover or get an arranged marriage are trying out all kinds of bleach packs and treatments to try and get whiter.....in the long run this is so harmful to them! But like I've mentioned earlier, the darker skinned people age slower and look young longer than light skinned people, so I really don't get what's the advantage there because 10-15 years down the line the brown/black person is going to have less wrinkles than me, for example!

roady said:
There are girls I know which are equally jealous of me, just because a GUY is fairer. What the hell? One girl came down to such a level that she actually offered some tanning lotion lol.

I have a similar story to share: My skin tans really fast, so it is adaptive to the location I'm currently staying in. So if I stay a month in a place like Andaman and Nicobar, I turn to a light brown and then coming back to Mumbai or Bangalore people don't give me much of a second look coz I look like the average Indian guy. But this one time I went to the North East for a few weeks in winter and lost all my tan and came back with a very Chinese skin tone, and just because of this one thing I saw everybody looking at me, especially a lot of young college going girls. Many of my friends even asked me what I did, a lot more girls came up to talk to me and complemented me that I'm looking great. I was so surprised, because it wasn't like I wasn't the same guy a few weeks ago......

sujoyp said:
In case of arrange marrige people prefer fair girls but dark men works...but a fair men likes to have fair women too soo that there family continues with fair skin

So wouldn't the dark guy marrying a fair woman undermine the "mission" of continuing the family with fair skin? They should be racist there too....but no, mostly this is directed towards women.
To be frank this is not correct: Genetics considers lineage from many, many generations when determining genes. For example both my parents are light brown, I turned out yellowish white (untanned) and beige (normal). A fair couple will have a (slightly) darker child if they give birth to it in a place like Chennai: environment has a role to play as well.

swapnil26ps said:
Personally, I don't mind if I marry a black girl. But my parents will surely ask how you fell in love with her.

Exactly....In my family they even start talking if that happens....

swapnil26ps said:
If a girl can take care of me and family(if not care then atleast respect) then why wouldn't a guy marry her.

Believe it or not people do actually reject good men and women on frivolous things such as this. One of my female working friends fell in love with a dark skinned guy who also happened to be a Manglik and all hell broke loose with the parents since he did not have a "single attractive quality" (i.e. no fair skin, Manglik to boot, was of a different culture and caste, etc.)

Oh, a little note regarding such issues in other nations:

In other nations like Latin American countries, Spain, Italy, Mexico, etc. these problems are still present but not nearly to the same extent, and in those nations nobody is ever outright rejected because of skin tones. That happens only in nations like the Middle East, India and Pakistan.

Fun fact in a lighter vein: This here is the Von Luschan Skin Tone chart, a bunch of tiles to match your untanned skin colour with to classify your skin's behaviour with respect to sunlight. It's mostly used by beauticians and frequent international travellers to determine whether the weather conditions will be suited for their skin (for example a black guy will suffer a vitamin D deficiency in a very cold nation whereas a white guy will have a high chance of developing cancer in a hot nation).

*1.bp.blogspot.com/-fjCjf5ovO-Q/TpO2E-lUmUI/AAAAAAAAAC4/yEMeF5OVKe0/s1600/skin-tone-scale.jpg

Based on these tiles your skin tone is classified as one of the following:

Type I: Scores 1-5
Type II: 6-10
Type III: 11-15
Type IV: 16-21
Type V: 22-28
Type VI: 29-36

(In the above chart I'm a 15 or 16 I think, comparing indoors - all skin will appear lighter under sunlight)

In racist as well as non-racist societies, empirical studies suggest that Type III and IV ("intermediates") are considered the most attractive globally because they are not ghostly white, nor "dirty" dark, and these two types of skin do not need to worry about vitamin D or sunburns or cancer no matter where they travel.

So basically in terms of Indian society all white people should marry dark people so that their kids end up as intermediates, though to be frank all of this consideration of skin colour is just a load of crap to me

A different, funnily edited version of the same colour chart for laughs:

*studioknow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/skin-tone-chart.jpg

AcceleratorX said:
I know, that's kinda why I started this thread. So many of my friends, now afraid they won't find a lover or get an arranged marriage are trying out all kinds of bleach packs and treatments to try and get whiter.....in the long run this is so harmful to them! But like I've mentioned earlier, the darker skinned people age slower and look young longer than light skinned people, so I really don't get what's the advantage there because 10-15 years down the line the brown/black person is going to have less wrinkles than me, for example!

That depends on skin type. Oily skin people tend to retain the softness and better texture of skin for longer compared to dry skin people who get wrinkles fast. Correct me if I am wrong.

AcceleratorX said:
So wouldn't the dark guy marrying a fair woman undermine the "mission" of continuing the family with fair skin? They should be racist there too....but no, mostly this is directed towards women.
To be frank this is not correct: Genetics considers lineage from many, many generations when determining genes. For example both my parents are light brown, I turned out yellowish white (untanned) and beige (normal). A fair couple will have a (slightly) darker child if they give birth to it in a place like Chennai: environment has a role to play as well.

haha...where did you get that ?

A

Faun said:
That depends on skin type. Oily skin people tend to retain the softness and better texture of skin for longer compared to dry skin people who get wrinkles fast. Correct me if I am wrong.

....that too, and skin colour as well. Melanin is a very good sunblock and protects against all kinds of UV damage, you see. If you compare similar skin types (and lifestyles) the darker person will age slower physically. There's some small scientific evidence that supports this.

Faun said:
haha...where did you get that ?

Well, no study proves this (or I haven't seen it) but it stands to reason that if you are born and growing up from childhood in a hotter place with not much of a significant winter, your skin will adapt and naturally produce more melanin (since it expects more radiation), thus making you slightly darker. Of course this doesn't change your genetic make up but you will look a little darker if you are born and grown in a hotter place provided you lived an "average" lifestyle.

On the other hand if you just live there for a few years the tan stays just as long as you stay there.

All I'm saying is that this stuff really isn't in anybody's hands and just marrying a dark or fair skinned person doesn't guarantee anything for your family or your children since way more is involved than just the two parents, that's why I feel it really shouldn't be a factor in our society.....

S

Melanin is to be blamed for virality of this issue one way or other. As a North Indian, I find myself fair but then one or two of my South Indian friends were fairer than fair and lovely, much to my bewilderment. They've been born n bred in Delhi and a full fledged punju born down south in Mysore, were incredibly dark! So climate DOES play a role in crafting the skin tone up. As far as hip for fairer skin is concerned, take it or leave it, it does look good and certainly makes you stand out! I know a south indian family, whose only son got married to a himachal based girl and boy they were visibly ecstatic, however same can't be inferred in the vice versa case. Although thats the secondary thing, you need to have features as well to complement the grace. If you haven't you ain't got anything!

One of my distant relative (boy) got married to a American Citizen (girl) the only similar thing about both of them was "Weight"

I do agree that the local climate has a impact on the skintone.. I was very fair 15 yrs ago.. now I am Black & White :lol:

.

I don't have any preference in skin color, its the understanding which should match..

With the constant invasions in India, the Anglo-phone culture, and the penchant for the caste system -it- is just a forerunner. But times are changing.

Today I saw a south Indian movie, I was thinking, the hero in south Indian movies can be dark, not so smart too, but heroin will must have very fair color and so beautiful.

Swapnil26sps said:
Today I saw a south Indian movie, I was thinking, the hero in south Indian movies can be dark, not so smart too, but heroin will must have very fair color and so beautiful.

Yes, that's true with all the South Indian movies.

M

simple rule. price of things that are quite available in plenty , is low or even priceless. but rare things even of much less usability are pricy. does not work all time but work most of the time.

@OP There is a big truth you haven't considered, something akin to people in the matrix not being aware of its existence (You have seen "The Martix" right?)

Let me begin with an analogy. When a computer is running, everything happens in terms of Boolean algebra. No matter what you are doing, writing a document, watching a movie, creating 3D animation, programming, it is all executed in terms of Boolean algebra in the from of billions of transistors either letting a pulse of electricity pass or not.

Similarly most of the actions we take in life are influenced by our biological urges, which every animal possesses.
It is biology, whether you can see or not, similar to someone with no knowledge of computers not understanding how a video can be nothing more than electrical pulses.

The most important basic urge of any animal is survival of self, which is manifested in the form of gathering food (hunting, agriculture, getting jobs) and fight/flight response to danger, but that's not what we are looking at.

The second basic urge is survival of the species, which is accomplished via procreation (sex) with the most compatible and best specimen (of the other gender) of your species.
Smooth flawless supple skin, hourglass shape, wide hips etc. are definite proofs of superior genes in a woman, and that is why we are attracted to them instinctively, without thinking.

Color I cannot comment on since I don't know much about its relation with genetics. I guess dark color is created just for protection of skin from UV rays.
It has been stated that (I don't know if its true) fairer skin is the result of more estrogen, the female hormone. Thus fairer skin means more estrogen resulting in more feminine nature of a woman and hence increased attractiveness, just as high heels increase vulnerability, bringing out the protector instinct in males, increasing the female's attractiveness.

As a side note I have always been attracted to girls with skin lighter than mine with a few exceptions, but I am free to make my choice you cannot call it unfair.

AcceleratorX said:
3) Physical aging is a myth; today men and women age the same because the lifestyles are converging. In fact I'll say men age faster because they have rougher lifestyles at younger ages (Who hasn't gone out every day as boys to play the odd football/cricket match? ). That leaves hormonal aging as the only factor. Even so, men today aren't exactly example of grooming beauty after 30 either - how many people (men and women) today seem to be getting greys at an early age (for example)?

Women's beauty is a very fragile and temporary phase, from the ages of 15-30, after which it starts to decline fast, whereas a man can look handsome even in his 50s if he takes care of his body and mind. e.g. Salman Khan looked like a champu when young but now he looks great. Only a few women look great after 35. Feminine beauty has no other purpose than to help the female find and attract the best mate.

AcceleratorX said:
The only valid reason I understand is that of maturity - that women can be more mature than men at the same age. Over time, this will also change because your maturity is defined by your experiences in life and your personality and not by your gender.

So, why all this insecurity? If a guy or girl has a good personality, takes care of you and is a good person, and in case of arranged marriage is of a compatible culture/region/caste/(whatever), what else do you really need?

I call BS on your maturity theory. Now you are yourself generalizing. What proof do you have about women being more mature than us? Maybe this will help you understand: All Girls Are Spoiled Children

I think I answered your insecurity question already. Looks matter, especially in women since looks are signs of superior genetics, hence potential for a better offspring.
Final decision is yours.

AcceleratorX said:
Think about it - a nation where over 80% of people are brownish-skinned obsesses a lot over the remaining less than 20%? Not cool!)

Equality is a lie. As you said everyone is unique. Hierarchy is the truth of nature, though it is not absolute hierarchy. e.g. I could be at the top of hierarchy of knowledge, and at bottom of hierarchy of looks. If everyone was equal and the same the world would be boring, and without diversity.

Indians cry and make a big issue when they face racism and discrimination in a foreign land. And these same people discriminate their own kind on the basis of color and caste. Hypocrites I say, F***ING hypocrites.....

I agree with chetan. I don't think it is racism to like fairer girls. I mean I respect all girls but when it comes to a relationship, I will certainly choose a girl who is fair and beautiful. It's my personal choice. Everyone else has theirs. You cannot call it racism if majority of population like fair girls.

i read it somewhere that its just fetish and not racism.

this whole issue nothing but the way of our thinking....

fair attracts obviously & we cannot deny this fact...but Love marriages breaks this barrier of color :wink:

lightningfassst said:
Personally, I don't mind if I marry a black girl. But my parents will surely ask how you fell in love with her. And I have noticed one thing,if a girl is not good looking,say fat, no guy will talk to her, but not the same case with guys, if guy isn't good looking,people will talk unless he start first. youngsters are choosing friends(not love) based on their looks. I'll say to those kind of people,grow up.

wrong thinking :duh:

Zangetsu said:
this whole issue nothing but the way of our thinking....

fair attracts obviously & we cannot deny this fact...but Love marriages breaks this barrier of color

wrong thinking

I didn't say anything wrong. I have noticed it a lot of times.

People with fairer skin will have genes to produce fair toned offspring ( Maybe ).
Why do people prefer well built persons , with muscles and 6-pax abs and good height and don't like obese and stunted ones ? Why are men attracted to wom**n with big ****s ??
Love happens between behaviour and brain , like happens between physical appearance. { general case.}
You will like a lady with good physical appearance but it doesn't necessarily implies that you"all fall in love with her.

Hatred and discrimination based on skin tone may not be in our genes but giving preference to fair skin tone definitely is.
While there may be several exceptions in this case as well

Even in black tribes in Africa , the lesser black girl is mostly preferred by men .

(Read in some survey somewhere)

That AcceleratorX is a closet feminist.

I don't need to point out that his opening post of the thread is a bunch of bull because Chetan1991 ripped him apart.

axes2t2 said:
That AcceleratorX is a closet feminist.

I don't need to point out that his opening post of the thread is a bunch of bull because Chetan1991 ripped him apart.

Haha

Allu Azad said:
Even in black tribes in Africa , the lesser black girl is mostly preferred by men .

(Read in some survey somewhere)

I'm sorry but that made me laugh real hard. Please don't call me racist.

axes2t2 said:
That AcceleratorX is a closet feminist.
I don't need to point out that his opening post of the thread is a bunch of bull because Chetan1991 ripped him apart.

@axes2t2 the funny part is I know few women(aged: 22+) who considers themselves modern feminists & protests this fair skin tone business, however they wont wants to be with a dark handsome guy.

@AcceleratorX our male genes operates like this: fair skin tone(implies health) + big b**bs = potential healthy offspring
on female side it's like : tall + handsome = can give better protection to offsprings

avinandan012 said:
@axes2t2 the funny part is I know few women(aged: 22+) who considers themselves modern feminists & protests this fair skin tone business, however they wont wants to be with a dark handsome guy.

@AcceleratorX our male genes operates like this: fair skin tone(implies health) + big b**bs = potential healthy offspring
on female side it's like : tall + handsome = can give better protection to offsprings

I had this thought when i was in college, but once i get into job, it changed. I realized no matter what their skin color is, girls are PITA and better to go with one who loves and respect you, rather than one who is so fair and treat you like sh1t.

^ wish carefully. today's girls though it's very sad but chooses with money in mind so no matter how you look if you earn hefty you will get one beatiful girl .

avinandan012 said:
^ wish carefully. today's girls though it's very sad but chooses with money in mind so no matter how you look if you earn hefty you will get the best girl.

Bro, i am married and i am happy to say, i got the right girl, who never look for my wallet. She is the most understandable person i've ever met and i am damn happy. So, i guess i can say this.

furious_gamer said:
I had this thought when i was in college, but once i get into job, it changed. I realized no matter what their skin color is, girls are PITA and better to go with one who loves and respect you, rather than one who is so fair and treat you like sh1t.

u can't say that in front of your wife.... :mrgreen:

Zangetsu said:
u can't say that in front of your wife....

See the second sentence...

better to go with one who loves and respect you, rather than one who is so fair and treat you like sh1t.

furious_gamer said:
See the second sentence...

but u said.. girl(s)...and second instance is the advice u gave

anyway

furious_gamer said:
I had this thought when i was in college, but once i get into job, it changed. I realized no matter what their skin color is, girls are PITA and better to go with one who loves and respect you, rather than one who is so fair and treat you like sh1t.

Totally Agree , most of them are PITA.Way too much complaining.
Although I haven't been to the later part yet but I will also prefer to choose one with better behavior and understanding over personality .

avinandan012 said:
^ wish carefully. today's girls though it's very sad but chooses with money in mind so no matter how you look if you earn hefty you will get one beatiful girl .

Things have always been like that way. It's just that we grow up and realized the fact.
Earlier girls didn't had that much freedom to choose and decide.

though it's not took place in our country.
well read this

avinandan012 said:
@AcceleratorX our male genes operates like this: fair skin tone(implies health) + big b**bs = potential healthy offspring
on female side it's like : tall + handsome = can give better protection to offsprings

So dark skin's not healthy ??? :lol:

avinandan012 said:
@axes2t2 the funny part is I know few women(aged: 22+) who considers themselves modern feminists & protests this fair skin tone business, however they wont wants to be with a dark handsome guy.

@AcceleratorX our male genes operates like this: fair skin tone(implies health) + big b**bs = potential healthy offspring
on female side it's like : tall + handsome = can give better protection to offsprings

I think this needs a little correction.

Fair skin tone has been said to be related to estrogen, the female hormone. Hence more estrogen means more feminine nature and fair skin and thus more attractive female body.
However I don't think dark skin of people living near the equator is related to this.

Some reinforcement:

As females age, the estrogen-to-androgen production ratio changes and results in female faces to appear more and more masculine (thus appearing less "attractive").

Some researchers in the United Kingdom have speculated that a preference for larger breasts may have developed in Western societies because women with larger breasts tend to have higher levels of the hormones estradiol and progesterone, which both promote fertility.

Source: Physical attractiveness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Men and women aren't attracted to the same traits. A man can compensate for average or below than average looks with personality and success(the ability of a male to provide etc are biologically more important to the female), while that's not so for women (since we're more visual.)

Fame and wealth of a man are the ultimate aphrodisiacs to women while a super hot body its the equivalent for us.

dan4u said:
So dark skin's not healthy ???

maybe I no doctor

A

So many kids here.

Chetan1991 said:
Smooth flawless supple skin, hourglass shape, wide hips etc. are definite proofs of superior genes in a woman, and that is why we are attracted to them instinctively, without thinking.

There is no pattern to this. See the studies:

Not just a pretty face: Modern men prefer women with brains rather than beauty | Mail Online
Study: Stressed-out men want heavier women | HLNtv.com

You can pretty much find a study that supports basically any hypothesis. It doesn't mean anything at all.

Chetan1991 said:
Let me begin with an analogy. When a computer is running, everything happens in terms of Boolean algebra. No matter what you are doing, writing a document, watching a movie, creating 3D animation, programming, it is all executed in terms of Boolean algebra in the from of billions of transistors either letting a pulse of electricity pass or not.

Physically, those circuits are basically switches and gates. It's the programing that makes them work differently. Now, I take your "matrix" and "programs" back at you; you are the end result of your own programming.

Physical != Logical; yet your apparatus does not have a use or purpose if both are not defined.

Chetan1991 said:
The second basic urge is survival of the species, which is accomplished via procreation (sex) with the most compatible and best specimen (of the other gender) of your species.
Smooth flawless supple skin, hourglass shape, wide hips etc. are definite proofs of superior genes in a woman, and that is why we are attracted to them instinctively, without thinking.

Interesting, because I don't get attracted that easily. Like I said, we are the result of our programming. What defines "good", "better", or "best"? How do you know that? In fact, just because traditionally males were the hunter-gatherers in human society; this is what you should be today too? Get to it then

chetan1991 said:
Women's beauty is a very fragile and temporary phase, from the ages of 15-30, after which it starts to decline fast, whereas a man can look handsome even in his 50s if he takes care of his body and mind. e.g. Salman Khan looked like a champu when young but now he looks great. Only a few women look great after 35. Feminine beauty has no other purpose than to help the female find and attract the best mate.

LOL

Everyone has their peak of "beauty" at 15-30. Think you'll look as good when the hair loss starts, you start gaining wrinkles, putting on weight, etc.? Salman IMO looks nowhere as good today as he did when he was young, neither does Sylvester Stallone, for that matter. Anyone can look fine provided they put some effort. Ameesha Patel, for example still looks fine at 38.

As for colour; it is purely genetic with a slight bias towards women influenced by estrogen (max 2-3 skin tones on the chart I have provided earlier). If it was so much about the estrogen, all handsome men with ripped bodies would be dark....and that surely isn't so.

chetan1991 said:
I call BS on your maturity theory. Now you are yourself generalizing. What proof do you have about women being more mature than us?

Why don't you try involving yourself in maintaining a household, cooking, cleaning, looking after siblings/kids/elders, paying bills, looking after medical issues of self (well, there are a few women-only issues), etc. all at the same time? I am sure the experience of doing it for even a month will make you more mature.

Women in India traditionally were encouraged and supposed to involve themselves in this sort of work, increasing family bonding and also giving them maturity. This is also a part of conditioning, programming. The programs men didn't have as they were left free for tasks outside the house and increased social activity/taskmaster/financial breadwinning tasks.

Raise a boy in the same way as you do a girl and you'd be surprised with the results

That was the reason for that perception, one that is changing today as with modern lifestyles girls are no longer obliged or willing to do any of those tasks and themselves lead a liberated, active social life. This may not hold true today, but it was true yesterday.

chetan1991 said:
Hierarchy is the truth of nature, though it is not absolute hierarchy. e.g. I could be at the top of hierarchy of knowledge, and at bottom of hierarchy of looks. If everyone was equal and the same the world would be boring, and without diversity.

Systems are supposed to either be in chaos or equilibrium, not in ordered way. All hierarchies still come down to the lowest level at the end. Since we aren't yet seeing an equilibrium, or even chaos, it appears that society was "directed" to behave this way rather than what was natural.

chetan1991 said:
I think I answered your insecurity question already. Looks matter, especially in women since looks are signs of superior genetics, hence potential for a better offspring.
Final decision is yours.

But what defines good looks? Is it the facial features, or the skin colour? Are those genes superior? How do you know? Is dark skin not healthy?

Fact of the matter is that you don't know. Do you see colourism in dogs? They seem to mate with whoever seems compatible without giving shits about the colour of their fur....

Harsh Pranami said:
I mean I respect all girls but when it comes to a relationship, I will certainly choose a girl who is fair and beautiful.

And why should they accept you?

Does that mean a girl who is not fair is not beautiful?

It goes on many levels, and skin colour.....can be anything really of your offsprings

Rishi said:
People with fairer skin will have genes to produce fair toned offspring

So, a guy who is fair and hooks up with a darker girl can also give the same result

At the same time....two dark skinned people can, in fact, give birth to a lighter skinned child (I am one such case)....

Rishi said:
Why do people prefer well built persons , with muscles and 6-pax abs and good height and don't like obese and stunted ones ? Why are men attracted to wom**n with big ****s ??

Psychological reasons actually. If a guy is not fit, it implies he is not healthy. If he cannot keep himself healthy, casts a doubt on the ability to keep the children healthy. They are not unattractive because they look bad

Similarly, big article on why (some, because I am not one of those men) have a fetish for big boobs:

Big breasts (a.k.a. Mommy didn't love me)

Rishi said:
Hatred and discrimination based on skin tone may not be in our genes but giving preference to fair skin tone definitely is.

Au contraire. People with darker skin are considered much hotter in many foreign countries. Why is that?

You have been programmed to be this way by your society and upbringing just like Americans have been programmed that getting a brown tan is very very sexy

Rishi said:
Love happens between behaviour and brain , like happens between physical appearance. { general case.}

Hmm, will agree on this.

Allu Azad said:
Even in black tribes in Africa , the lesser black girl is mostly preferred by men .

(Read in some survey somewhere)

Read above statements. Tanned people considered hotter in America

It's the program!

axes2t2 said:
That AcceleratorX is a closet feminist.

I don't need to point out that his opening post of the thread is a bunch of bull because Chetan1991 ripped him apart.

The women who call themselves "feminists" are hardly so, don't even get me started on them.

Bunch of bull? "ripped me apart"? What crude language! Kiddo, next time, come back with some manners.....

avinandan012 said:
@AcceleratorX our male genes operates like this: fair skin tone(implies health) + big b**bs = potential healthy offspring
on female side it's like : tall + handsome = can give better protection to offsprings

It's only partly genetics. It's mostly our upbringing.

chetan1991 said:
Fame and wealth of a man are the ultimate aphrodisiacs to women while a super hot body its the equivalent for us.

It's a nice thing to say, we actually believe it because we see it

But I showed a few studies that seem to be bucking the trend? Like I said, there are no patterns to these, I can make n studies to prove any point. In our society it has been made like that to establish gender roles with a superiority to the male. This is in fact directly related to societal problems and even rapes but I am not going to go into that, I'm too tired today

chetan said:
Women's beauty is a very fragile and temporary phase, from the ages of 15-30, after which it starts to decline fast, whereas a man can look handsome even in his 50s if he takes care of his body and mind. e.g. Salman Khan looked like a champu when young but now he looks great. Only a few women look great after 35. Feminine beauty has no other purpose than to help the female find and attract the best mate.

You truly underestimate a woman's beauty my friend. A woman's beauty has the power to the turn the tide into a totally opposite direction, cause fight between two friends, unite people etc. You don't see yoga advertisements, healthclub ads, soap ads etc just because some girl is in the ad, but a "beautiful girl" is modelling for the ad. You don't see many company's websites with "Indian people" on it, but western models on it. You won't see just some other Indian girl modelling for a company or a show but perhaps Katrina/Kareena or some western model. Yes glamour and fame is associated, but then why do people have a negative reality check for the college they opted for which they had seen nice and glamourous ads in newspapers and online?

Marketing is one area which heavily utilises a woman's beauty to "gather the crowd". Herd Mentality is another area where woman's beauty can draw those who don't have any interest but still would like to participate just because girls or perhaps beautiful girls are associated. Many people don't goto gym to genuinely workout, but for bird watching.

You can also read the story of Rani Padmini of Chittor (Indian History), Mohini from Vishnu Purana (Smritis) and Sonia Gandhi (Indian Politics) where many sychopancy just because she was considered beautiful, a foreigner and thought process based on the subtle mentality of many Indians "If its white, then its right"! The examples are many.

Anyways, youth, IMO, lasts as long as cell divions/regeneration and body stamina is maintained. It deteriorates over the time as the body is obstructed with the external pollutants and wordly sufferings stated as depression, frustration, anger etc. Depression is one of the causes of cancer, obesity furthe rleading to heart attacks.

Therefore, youth can last longer than what "modern studies" show us. Moreover, mind also works on how you think. In a game, If you have already made up your mind that your opponent is tough or any sort of limitation, then you will also play accordingly. In a subtle way, it is called as will power (agni as per Indian science). The more is your agni, the more you will be able to try. Therefore, you will have to sacrifice into the agni! The more your try, the better your vessel i.e your body will become. Its a simultaneous parallel approach, where the will creates a better physicality and synchronicity between the subtle and gross body!

Remember, today a person may think that he cannot lift 20 kg on chest. But 2 years hence, he may lift 100 kgs!

But anyways, this science of unification or transcending beyond the limitations os called yoga! It is not the yoga that we see on TV or western marketing makeup. Thats a joke!

Yoga is in the progress of our eating, asanas, knowledge, devotion, actions etc. In terms of food, it enables us to move to a purer source of energy.

Lion -> Deer -> Grass -> Sun -> ? -> ? -> ?

What is the source of Sun? What is the source of that on which Sun is based? And so on!

For a non-veg, moving on to a veg diet; for a veg, moving on to energy from Sun, Air, water only. Till today there exists many yogis, who can perfect this practice, have a perfect control on all of their body organs and live on Sun's energy only for a whole year, something which is considered as 'impossible' by modern science.

Obviously, material body needs energy to sustain. But what if a yogi has perfected in his pursuit and united with the subtler than the subtlest of the source; living in a world of time and space and has transcended to merge with that which is beyond time and space?

The more you abuse your body, the earlier you grow old. But the more you perfect your body, the higher your stamina and bodily control becomes. It is the science of life "ayurveda".

So I guess, we should not generalize based on what is happening in the society and make some study look like a fact!

any guy wud want a beautiful girl as his bride... :wink:

living on the energy of the sun? what bs is this :troll:

AcceleratorX said:
Au contraire. People with darker skin are considered much hotter in many foreign countries. Why is that?

You have been programmed to be this way by your society and upbringing just like Americans have been programmed that getting a brown tan is very very sexy

pretty much this.

Propaganda. The environment determines what people will think. We've grown up in such a propaganda/environment. "Dhoop mein mat khel nahi toh kaala ho jaayega" / "Don't play in sun otherwise you'll become darker."

The young generation has been programmed into thinking that colourless women are "fair and lovely"....pfft.

Relating skin colour with estrogen and being colourless being more feminine? No comments.

snap said:
living on the energy of the sun? what bs is this

"Niraahari Yogis".

Might seem intriguing at first, but there are many - atleast many claim to be one. View it either way you like.

avinandan012 said:
@axes2t2 the funny part is I know few women(aged: 22+) who considers themselves modern feminists & protests this fair skin tone business, however they wont wants to be with a dark handsome guy.

dunno, I'm a dark offspring of two fair parents. Handsome? Nope. Tall? I don't consider myself tall. Dark? very much.

The two girls I've been in relationship with were very beautiful. Yup, they were very fair but that doesn't make them beautiful automatically. I find dark girls *more* attractive.

snap said:
living on the energy of the sun? what bs is this

Solves the world hunger problem.

ico said:
dunno, I'm a dark offspring of two fair parents. Handsome? Nope. Tall? I don't consider myself tall. Dark? very much.

The two girls I've been in relationship with were very beautiful. Yup, they were very fair but that doesn't make them beautiful automatically. I find dark girls *more* attractive.

Two gals !~! Lucky dude....uh. :wink:

mediator said:
You truly underestimate a woman's beauty my friend. A woman's beauty has the power to the turn the tide into a totally opposite direction, cause fight between two friends, unite people etc. You don't see yoga advertisements, healthclub ads, soap ads etc just because some girl is in the ad, but a "beautiful girl" is modelling for the ad. You don't see many company's websites with "Indian people" on it, but western models on it. You won't see just some other Indian girl modelling for a company or a show but perhaps Katrina/Kareena or some western model. Yes glamour and fame is associated, but then why do people have a negative reality check for the college they opted for which they had seen nice and glamourous ads in newspapers and online?

.................

So I guess, we should not generalize based on what is happening in the society and make some study look like a fact!

Completely agree with that. Except the last line. What generalization are you talking about?

"very fragile and temporary phase, from the ages of 15-30,", I perceived it as a generalization. My mistake, otherwise!

This is worth a watch....

I'll spar with you just this once.

AcceleratorX said:
So many kids here.

There is no pattern to this. See the studies:

Not just a pretty face: Modern men prefer women with brains rather than beauty | Mail Online
Study: Stressed-out men want heavier women | HLNtv.com

You can pretty much find a study that supports basically any hypothesis. It doesn't mean anything at all.

"No pattern to this." i.e. no laws, everyone has their own favourite and beauty is subjective, is that what you are trying to say?

Interesting, because I don't get attracted that easily. Like I said, we are the result of our programming. What defines "good", "better", or "best"? How do you know that? In fact, just because traditionally males were the hunter-gatherers in human society; this is what you should be today too? Get to it then

So you're saying there is no such thing as a worst to best scale, and everything is objective?

LOL

Everyone has their peak of "beauty" at 15-30. Think you'll look as good when the hair loss starts, you start gaining wrinkles, putting on weight, etc.? Salman IMO looks nowhere as good today as he did when he was young, neither does Sylvester Stallone, for that matter. Anyone can look fine provided they put some effort. Ameesha Patel, for example still looks fine at 38.

As for colour; it is purely genetic with a slight bias towards women influenced by estrogen (max 2-3 skin tones on the chart I have provided earlier). If it was so much about the estrogen, all handsome men with ripped bodies would be dark....and that surely isn't so.

Do not mention actresses since they are already more beautiful than most women plus have financial assets to enhance it with surgery and cosmetics if needed. Most women's beauty starts to fade after 30. While most men can look fine for much longer. Just look at most of the Hollywood actors and actresses and consider their ages.
Silvester Stalone? he's never looked that good with that wierd mug of his. If you really think Salman looked better in those shitty 15+ year old movies then you have quite a unique view of beauty, and continuing the discussion would be pointless.

Why don't you try involving yourself in maintaining a household, cooking, cleaning, looking after siblings/kids/elders, paying bills, looking after medical issues of self (well, there are a few women-only issues), etc. all at the same time? I am sure the experience of doing it for even a month will make you more mature.

Women in India traditionally were encouraged and supposed to involve themselves in this sort of work, increasing family bonding and also giving them maturity. This is also a part of conditioning, programming. The programs men didn't have as they were left free for tasks outside the house and increased social activity/taskmaster/financial breadwinning tasks.

Raise a boy in the same way as you do a girl and you'd be surprised with the results

That was the reason for that perception, one that is changing today as with modern lifestyles girls are no longer obliged or willing to do any of those tasks and themselves lead a liberated, active social life. This may not hold true today, but it was true yesterday.

How is maintaining a household etc supposed to make you mature? Maturity comes through gaining wisdom which is dependent upon someone's capability to reflect upon and their experiences and learn from them.

Systems are supposed to either be in chaos or equilibrium, not in ordered way. All hierarchies still come down to the lowest level at the end. Since we aren't yet seeing an equilibrium, or even chaos, it appears that society was "directed" to behave this way rather than what was natural.

This is not a binary world. You seem to be having a Black and white view of the world. Hierarchies are the truth of the world. Just go watch animal planet, or the dog whisperer. This is solid irrefutable science.

But what defines good looks? Is it the facial features, or the skin colour? Are those genes superior? How do you know? Is dark skin not healthy?

Fact of the matter is that you don't know. Do you see colourism in dogs? They seem to mate with whoever seems compatible without giving shits about the colour of their fur....

You know it by the rising desire in you, which is a primal reaction, not socially constructed.
We're too different from dogs to make any comparison.

And why should they accept you?

Does that mean a girl who is not fair is not beautiful?

It goes on many levels, and skin colour.....can be anything really of your offsprings

For the value I have as a man. If someone doesn't like me that's fine by me; everyone's entitled to their choice. We won't whine about it "not being faaair!!" like feminists do. Promise.

Psychological reasons actually. If a guy is not fit, it implies he is not healthy. If he cannot keep himself healthy, casts a doubt on the ability to keep the children healthy. They are not unattractive because they look bad

Similarly, big article on why (some, because I am not one of those men) have a fetish for big boobs:

Big breasts (a.k.a. Mommy didn't love me)

Evolutionary's the word I would use.

Au contraire. People with darker skin are considered much hotter in many foreign countries. Why is that?

You have been programmed to be this way by your society and upbringing just like Americans have been programmed that getting a brown tan is very very sexy

Recent trend. That doesn't change the nature of every other color based preference. All I've got to say is that no one should be whining why some people prefer light skinned mate and some not, some prefer skinny girls and some not. Everyone's entitled to their choice, and if you can't accept that, then tough tomatoes!

The women who call themselves "feminists" are hardly so, don't even get me started on them.

Care to share your views?

It's only partly genetics. It's mostly our upbringing.

You'de be surprised to know how much of it is primal nature not upbringing. On what facts are you making this statement?

It's a nice thing to say, we actually believe it because we see it

But I showed a few studies that seem to be bucking the trend? Like I said, there are no patterns to these, I can make n studies to prove any point. In our society it has been made like that to establish gender roles with a superiority to the male. This is in fact directly related to societal problems and even rapes but I am not going to go into that, I'm too tired today

[/QUOTE]
No that's not just a nice thing to say. It's the truth.

I never said men are superior to women. That would imply they have been pitted against each other and one comes on top of other. But that's not so. Men and women are complementary. Both have some traits unique to them and they need each other for survival of the species. Men have their own place and women their own.
Saying both genders are equal or dumb statements like "women can do everything as good as a man can" are plain distortions of truth. If women could do everything we can do, just as good as us + what they are already good at, what would be the point of our existence? Would we be just yoghurt dispensers?

I'm completely pro freedom, where everyone is allowed to do whatever they want without society saying women should stay in homes or society saying women should be out competing with men because "they can do everything men can!!" When there is no discrimination b/w any category of society and opportunity is available to all and achievement aren't reserved but given to only the deserving you will see the natural balance being restored automatically.

^ he already explained why it's upbringing/propaganda.

People in white countries are craving for a tan. They'd sit in sun for hours to get a tan because the media portrays tan as 'attractive' over there.

Here in India, it's 'fair and lovely', plus the casual racism which has been a part of Indian culture lately.

PS: I'm not denying the fact that beauty is subjective.

Read these:

www.kaurista.com/2012/05/10/my-dark-vagina/

www.kaurista.com/2011/09/26/tanned-beauty/

PS: I'm not denying the fact that beauty is subjective.

Correction.

Female beauty is not subjective, except in the metaphysical sense that an individual’s neurons have to operate to perceive the beauty. A transsexual can only be perceived as womanly if he alters his body and face to such a radical degree that he begins to conform with innate biologically grounded standards already in place in the brains of men. The very fact that transsexual men have to conceal or otherwise surgically reconstruct their male features to more resemble female features in order to “pass” with straight men is hard real world evidence that female beauty is objective and male sexual attraction preferences are universal. And even then… the ruse is exceedingly difficult to pull off.

Source: Female Beauty From 5 To 7 | Chateau Heartiste

Read the entire article from top to bottom (without skipping) for a good laugh.

the insecurity about looks, age and skin colour (marriage/relationships)

They will never die, that's a fact of life

Mr.Kickass said:
They will never die, that's a fact of life

^ This. Life is not fair. Equality is a lie. Accept it or whine.

Guys,
I think i like a girl and she have a dark skin colour and i have no problem with it. I like her as she is. She too have feelings for me i know that. But my friends keep making fun of me like hell. I know my parents and relatives would also criticize it.
I don't ******* care for the society but parents...
Any help guys... :/

Bytebolt said:
Guys,
I think i like a girl and she have a dark skin colour and i have no problem with it. I like her as she is. She too have feelings for me i know that. But my friends keep making fun of me like hell. I know my parents and relatives would also criticize it.
I don't ******* care for the society but parents...
Any help guys... :/

We cant help

But growing a thick skin will help. People are judgemental and biased. Reality of life.

ssk_the_gr8 said:
We cant help
But growing a thick skin will help. People are judgemental and biased. Reality of life.

Indeed! A very good answer to your question.

ssk_the_gr8 said:
We cant help
But growing a thick skin will help. People are judgemental and biased. Reality of life.

Thanks... I hate these racist *******s...

A

I am a racist, I prefer a black Samsung GS4 over a white one.

Then you are colourist.

If you prefer Sony or Motorola over Samsung, then you are racist.

And if you prefer phablets or tablets over phones, then you are specist.